Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:03 AM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (John Anderson)
2. 02:32 AM - wing tanks/ethanol (Jim Carriere)
3. 02:34 AM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (kitfox@gto.net)
4. 06:52 AM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Lowell Fitt)
5. 09:02 AM - Re: Radiator Mods (Don Smythe)
6. 09:04 AM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Lynn Matteson)
7. 02:37 PM - Re: Radiator Mods (Paul Seehafer)
8. 02:45 PM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (Paul Seehafer)
9. 02:50 PM - painting Lp Aero doors (Paul Seehafer)
10. 03:10 PM - Re: Radiator Mods (Don Smythe)
11. 03:18 PM - polytanks available (ron schick)
12. 03:55 PM - Door Latches (Guy Buchanan)
13. 03:55 PM - Folding with Full Tanks. (Guy Buchanan)
14. 03:55 PM - Spinner or Not? (Guy Buchanan)
15. 04:15 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Lowell Fitt)
16. 04:54 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Roger Standley)
17. 05:27 PM - Re: Spinner or Not? (jdmcbean)
18. 05:31 PM - Ethanol (Rex & Jan Shaw)
19. 05:37 PM - Re: Folding with Full Tanks. (Don Smythe)
20. 05:39 PM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Don Smythe)
21. 06:39 PM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Rick)
22. 06:49 PM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (John King)
23. 07:00 PM - Re: Spinner or Not? (jdmcbean)
24. 07:10 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Floran Higgins)
25. 08:22 PM - Re: painting Lp Aero doors (David Estapa)
26. 09:56 PM - Re: Folding with Full Tanks. (James Shumaker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Yes, cart it to the airport in containers, the idea being to use a mixture.
Always fill up at home with mogas and if you have to top up with avgas at
other airports. I have a lead resistant O2 sensor for this reason. If using
lead change your oil more often and don't use synthetic. ~j~
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 10:21 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
>I use regualr gas for years in 503 582s 87 octane is what pump says.
I'm curious. How do you run auto gas? Is it available at your airport? Or
do you cart it in to fill the Kit? I'm going to store mine at the airport.
I don't believe I have much of a choice beyond 100LL. If I fly around and
fill up at airports here and there, will I have a choice beyond 100LL and
Jet-A?
>100 LL will foul your plugs more plus put lead residue into bearings
>which is not good.
>If won't hurt to run 100 LL occasionly But i would not make it my
>first choice.
...
>Kirby
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Message 2
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| Subject: | wing tanks/ethanol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Carriere <jimcarriere@yahoo.com>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
> <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Last I knew.. No. I believe they are still using the fiberglass
> tanks.
I called Skystar about this a couple weeks ago, and was told the
plastic tanks would be available sometime next summer.
Jim in NW FL
Series 7 in progress
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Guy,
I have a strip at home and yes i bring it in 5 gal containers.
All fuel is run through chamois or funnel with screen.
5 imp. gal wing tanks have another see through screen filter on way to
8 imp. gal front tank and then all fuel goes through gascolator.
Floats i an carry addition 12 imp gals in jerry cans.
I will also go to marina to get fuel too if I need to on floats.
Avgas here in Ontario runs 30 to 40 cents a litre more than Auto gas.
So for US gal conversion that is
auto gas 4 $ a US gal CDN
avgas 5.20 to 5.60 CDN per Us gallon.
I have used over 25 gals this week alone so far and week not over yet.
But if in a bind hey no problem.
I think it best to ask a expert like a Rotax engine guy like Bob
Robertson.
Kirby
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
>
> At 10:21 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
> >
> >I use regualr gas for years in 503 582s 87 octane is what pump
says.
>
> I'm curious. How do you run auto gas? Is it available at your
airport? Or
> do you cart it in to fill the Kit? I'm going to store mine at the
airport.
> I don't believe I have much of a choice beyond 100LL. If I fly around
and
> fill up at airports here and there, will I have a choice beyond 100LL
and
> Jet-A?
>
> >100 LL will foul your plugs more plus put lead residue into
bearings
> >which is not good.
> >If won't hurt to run 100 LL occasionly But i would not make it my
> >first choice.
>
> ...
>
> >Kirby
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Guy,
I think most airport leases allow for a certain maximum of flamables that
can be stored in the hangar. I seem to remember this from my hangar lease
days. One interesting provision on my Livermore lease was that a can that
once held fuel or oil for that matter was considered full, at least for fire
department standards. If that is the case where you are, bring a couple of
full cans of fuel to the airport as you need it, and if you have to, leave
them in your truck / car. There is a local Kitfox pilot who works for the
California Division of Forestry - a fire guy - that fuels in his hangar. I
always pull my airplane outside to fuel.
I do fuel from plastic 6 gallon cans. The technique shown me was to put a
towel on the top of the wingtank. Lift the can onto the towel and pour. I
use one of the large filter funnels and it helps to put my thumb on the
spout until the spout is over the funnel.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
>
> At 10:21 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>>
>>I use regualr gas for years in 503 582s 87 octane is what pump says.
>
> I'm curious. How do you run auto gas? Is it available at your airport? Or
> do you cart it in to fill the Kit? I'm going to store mine at the airport.
> I don't believe I have much of a choice beyond 100LL. If I fly around and
> fill up at airports here and there, will I have a choice beyond 100LL and
> Jet-A?
>
>>100 LL will foul your plugs more plus put lead residue into bearings
>>which is not good.
>>If won't hurt to run 100 LL occasionly But i would not make it my
>>first choice.
>
> ...
>
>>Kirby
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator Mods |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
I was getting 90+ the other day at 5800 RPM. Went to about 103 with full
throttle. I was more interested in looking at coolant temps so didn't spend
too much time with speed. On the othere hand, the prop was a bit coarse so
that could have been the reason for apparent higher speed.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Radiator Mods
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> Hi Don, What kind of cruise speed you getting now ?
>
> I just put Amphibs on with 582 and gettin 82 mph cruise.
>
> even more fun now.
>
> Kirby
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>
>> I finally got a chance to fly the plane today after completing the
> cowl and radiator mods (overheating on hot days during climb). First
> off, I noticed the taxi temps were a bit higher than before. They got
> up to around 160 tops. During an extended full power climb, the temps
> went up to around 172 max and during cruise, around 165. I also
> noticed around a 5-10 MPH speed increase however, the prop pitch was a
> shy too coarse. Could only get 6500 RPM during full throttle level
> flight. The OAT's today were only 85 degrees but it looks like the
> modifications might be giving me a more uniform coolant temp in all
> conditions. Looking now for a 90+ degree day.
>> Don Smythe
>> Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Lowell-
The use of plastic containers brings up the question of static
again....how do you ground or bond the can to prevent this? I was told
that the very action of gasoline running through the spout in a plastic
can could generate static electricity. I was readying myself to only
use metal cans which can be grounded. Will a cable clipped to the
plastic can do the same thing? I know this has been talked about before.
Lynn
On Friday, August 26, 2005, at 09:49 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> I do fuel from plastic 6 gallon cans. The technique shown me was to
> put a
> towel on the top of the wingtank. Lift the can onto the towel and
> pour. I
> use one of the large filter funnels and it helps to put my thumb on the
> spout until the spout is over the funnel.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator Mods |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Don,
I must have missed something here? What mods did you do to increase your
cruise by 5-10 mph? Just curious...
Paul Seehafer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Radiator Mods
>>> I finally got a chance to fly the plane today after completing the
>> cowl and radiator mods (overheating on hot days during climb). First
>> off, I noticed the taxi temps were a bit higher than before. They got
>> up to around 160 tops. During an extended full power climb, the temps
>> went up to around 172 max and during cruise, around 165. I also
>> noticed around a 5-10 MPH speed increase however, the prop pitch was a
>> shy too coarse. Could only get 6500 RPM during full throttle level
>> flight. The OAT's today were only 85 degrees but it looks like the
>> modifications might be giving me a more uniform coolant temp in all
>> conditions. Looking now for a 90+ degree day.
>>> Don Smythe
>>> Classic IV W/ 582
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
All,
Thanks for the tips on what to do. I think I've figured out that the
airplane was built with minimal dihedral, causing all the concerns (except
for the wing hitting the back of the cabin glass).
So, I am planning to;
1 - See if I can adjust the rod ends up enough to increase the dihedral in
each wing, therefore getting the flaperons off the horizontal stabilizer.
We'll see how much they can be adjusted, and that they aren't straining the
spar attach bolts.
2 - Make a new lengthened and bent rod or holder to keep the wings in place
when folded.
3 - Cut the back corners of the windshield so they miss gouging the wing
when folded, and/or possibly bending the corners up some too.
4 - Moving the balance weight so they just clear the top of the fuselage
when folded back. Hopefully this won't cause and kind of aerodynamic
balancing issues?
Once again, thanks for all the help!
Paul Seehafer
Message 9
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| Subject: | painting Lp Aero doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
All:
Has anyone any experience painting the edges of the LP Aero bubble doors
with paint? Particularly with Polyfiber Aerothane?
I want to trim the edges of my doors with matching fuselage colored paint,
but am concerned the solvents could attack the Plexiglass. I could do a
test on some scraps, but thought maybe someone has done this before and can
save me some paint mixing and time. Any advice or experiences would be
appreciated.
Paul Seehafer
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator Mods |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Well, I'm not sure I increased the cruise that much since the prop was a
little more overpitched than usual. The mods I did was, cut out the bottom
side of the round bump cowl (air exhaust) and made it smooth, added a
fairing/cowl that extended from the front of the radiator all the way back
to the cross over tube (where the wing struts attach to the fuselage), put
in "side" exhaust vents to the engine cowl since the bottom exhaust vent had
been removed.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Radiator Mods
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
> Don,
>
> I must have missed something here? What mods did you do to increase your
> cruise by 5-10 mph? Just curious...
>
> Paul Seehafer
>
>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Radiator Mods
>
>
>>>> I finally got a chance to fly the plane today after completing the
>>> cowl and radiator mods (overheating on hot days during climb). First
>>> off, I noticed the taxi temps were a bit higher than before. They got
>>> up to around 160 tops. During an extended full power climb, the temps
>>> went up to around 172 max and during cruise, around 165. I also
>>> noticed around a 5-10 MPH speed increase however, the prop pitch was a
>>> shy too coarse. Could only get 6500 RPM during full throttle level
>>> flight. The OAT's today were only 85 degrees but it looks like the
>>> modifications might be giving me a more uniform coolant temp in all
>>> conditions. Looking now for a 90+ degree day.
>>>> Don Smythe
>>>> Classic IV W/ 582
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | polytanks available |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
I looked at an Avid MK4 last year that had poly tanks. The kit is still for
sale as well as about 20 of the poly tanks. He was going to go into
commercial production for some of our kitbuilders, but never really took
off. $100 or serious offer would probably buy a tank. Almost 5 gallon each.
Look under GA News classifieds and there is the Avid kit for sale, or let me
know and I'll get you in touch. Ron NB Ore
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Whose got the best door latches for the LP bubble doors on a IV? I don't
care if they lock. (My frame is currently set up for the forward middle
position, but I'm not wedded to it and could easily install a latch plate
elsewhere.)
Also, I'd like to put gas struts on the back of the door, even though I
notice most put them in front. Does anyone else do this? Does anyone have a
parts list they'd like to share?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
I have to fold the wings to store the plane in the box trailer. I
don't want to drain and fill each time I fly. Here's my current thoughts. I
buy a set of caps, somewhere, that have no vent; or I buy a duplicate
vented set and weld / crimp the vent shut. I then install a quick drain or
ball valve or some such vent in the top inboard face of the tank, near or
as part of the fuel level upper pick-up. Then, to fly, I close the inboard
vents, spread the wings, install the vented caps, go fly. Get back: install
the non-vented caps, fold wings, open inboard vents, store.
What do you think. Do you think I can get caps that will handle
being wet permanently without leaking? Do you think I can adequately
install the inboard vent? Do you think it will work? Do you think I'll
remember to open the vents or will I blow the tanks apart one day? :'(
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
I've got a round-cowl Kitfox IV with a 582/C gearbox/warp drive three
blade. I'm thinking of putting one of the ACS UHS fiberglass spinners on,
in a 11" or 12" diameter. This will close off most of the cowl, leaving a
"smile" opening below the spinner. Has anyone else done this? Was it
successful functionally? Aesthetically? My cowl has the large opening in
the bottom on the left, conveniently enough right in front of the radiator
scoop, but that's another story.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Lynn,
This has been a concern of mine also. It is interesting that when fueling
with avgas, the line boy always grounds the airplane at the exhaust stack
which grounds the frame etc, but not the tank or filler neck. I wish I had
run some of the copper tape used by stained glass artists from the filler
neck to the spar bolt or beyond, but as I think about it I don't know how I
would have attached it to the neck I have heard of fires from fueling, but
none close hand.
I read in one of the magazines some time ago about fueling fiberglass tanks
and the recommendation was to wipe down the area around the filler neck with
a wet rag which will essentially wick away any static build-up in that area.
The fuel filter I use recommends it being grounded, but I haven't done it
yet. The CDF guy that fuels in his hangar uses plastic tanks and shrugs his
shoulders when questioned about it. I guess the real reason I don't fuel in
my hangar is because my hangar is attached to my house and I can imagine the
flack I would get if I burned down my house fueling an airplane inside.
A while back someone gave a real good tip. He said that the first reaction
to a little fuel spilled on the top of the wing is to grab the edge of the
towl that protects the wing surface or another rag and wiping the spill up.
Bad Bad idea as the dry rag on the fabric top is an excellent static
electricity generator.
Regarding metal tanks. My worry here would be a static charge on the tank
and the possibility of a spark as the metal tank spout touches the filler
neck.
An aside: One of the most unnerving things I have found while working on the
carbon fiber fuselage of the Lancair project is when vacuuming up the
sanding dust from the micro. As the dust exits the fuselage surface and
travels down the vacuum hose, it develops quite a static charge which goes
right through me if I touch the fuselage. I have gotten into the habit of
grounding myself as I vacuum to dissipate the static build-up..
Lowell
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Lowell-
> The use of plastic containers brings up the question of static
> again....how do you ground or bond the can to prevent this? I was told
> that the very action of gasoline running through the spout in a plastic
> can could generate static electricity. I was readying myself to only
> use metal cans which can be grounded. Will a cable clipped to the
> plastic can do the same thing? I know this has been talked about before.
>
> Lynn
> On Friday, August 26, 2005, at 09:49 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>> I do fuel from plastic 6 gallon cans. The technique shown me was to
>> put a
>> towel on the top of the wingtank. Lift the can onto the towel and
>> pour. I
>> use one of the large filter funnels and it helps to put my thumb on the
>> spout until the spout is over the funnel.
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
Hey Lowell,
About your CDF guy...the fun doesn't start until you have a fire!
(Just kidding) But which brings up a question - what do you do if a fire starts
while refueling?
1. Run like crazy or 2. Try to sufficate the fire by putting the fuel cap back
on while burning your fingers or 3. Run grab the fire extinguisher and try your
luck as a fire fighter? What are the odds of the whole thing exploding before
you put the fire out?
Sorry. Lovely thoughts before a great flying weekend. Aw, just fuel up and go fly!
----- Original Message -----
From: Lowell Fitt<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>>
Lynn,
This has been a concern of mine also. It is interesting that when fueling
with avgas, the line boy always grounds the airplane at the exhaust stack
which grounds the frame etc, but not the tank or filler neck. I wish I had
run some of the copper tape used by stained glass artists from the filler
neck to the spar bolt or beyond, but as I think about it I don't know how I
would have attached it to the neck I have heard of fires from fueling, but
none close hand.
I read in one of the magazines some time ago about fueling fiberglass tanks
and the recommendation was to wipe down the area around the filler neck with
a wet rag which will essentially wick away any static build-up in that area.
The fuel filter I use recommends it being grounded, but I haven't done it
yet. The CDF guy that fuels in his hangar uses plastic tanks and shrugs his
shoulders when questioned about it. I guess the real reason I don't fuel in
my hangar is because my hangar is attached to my house and I can imagine the
flack I would get if I burned down my house fueling an airplane inside.
A while back someone gave a real good tip. He said that the first reaction
to a little fuel spilled on the top of the wing is to grab the edge of the
towl that protects the wing surface or another rag and wiping the spill up.
Bad Bad idea as the dry rag on the fabric top is an excellent static
electricity generator.
Regarding metal tanks. My worry here would be a static charge on the tank
and the possibility of a spark as the metal tank spout touches the filler
neck.
An aside: One of the most unnerving things I have found while working on the
carbon fiber fuselage of the Lancair project is when vacuuming up the
sanding dust from the micro. As the dust exits the fuselage surface and
travels down the vacuum hose, it develops quite a static charge which goes
right through me if I touch the fuselage. I have gotten into the habit of
grounding myself as I vacuum to dissipate the static build-up..
Lowell
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net<mailto:lynnmatt@jps.net>>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net<mailto:lynnmatt@jps.net>>
>
> Lowell-
> The use of plastic containers brings up the question of static
> again....how do you ground or bond the can to prevent this? I was told
> that the very action of gasoline running through the spout in a plastic
> can could generate static electricity. I was readying myself to only
> use metal cans which can be grounded. Will a cable clipped to the
> plastic can do the same thing? I know this has been talked about before.
>
> Lynn
> On Friday, August 26, 2005, at 09:49 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>>
>> I do fuel from plastic 6 gallon cans. The technique shown me was to
>> put a
>> towel on the top of the wingtank. Lift the can onto the towel and
>> pour. I
>> use one of the large filter funnels and it helps to put my thumb on the
>> spout until the spout is over the funnel.
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Guy,
I am a distributor for the UHS spinners and have had good luck with them...
On the round cowl I would most likely not go over the 10"....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
I've got a round-cowl Kitfox IV with a 582/C gearbox/warp drive three
blade. I'm thinking of putting one of the ACS UHS fiberglass spinners on,
in a 11" or 12" diameter. This will close off most of the cowl, leaving a
"smile" opening below the spinner. Has anyone else done this? Was it
successful functionally? Aesthetically? My cowl has the large opening in
the bottom on the left, conveniently enough right in front of the radiator
scoop, but that's another story.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
not to sound to crass about this subject but . WHAT DOES THE ENGINE
MANUFACTURER SAY AND THE DESIGNER OF THE TANK. no alcohol . Why would anyone
want to risk there life on running E10 in there aircraft when it has rubber
fuel lines and rubber gaskets and rubber seals that the alcohol eats up .
So my answer is DO NOT RUN ALCOHOL .
Of course this is only my opinion and no one made me say this .
I can no longer get any premium fuel in our county so am running 100ll.and
have had absolutely no problems. I talked to LOCKWOOD AVIATION and they said
100ll is fine just no ALCOHOL.
John,
I totally agree with what you say but also I have another reason
for not liking alchohol in a two stroke especially. It absorbs moisture and
as it runs through the bearings in a two stroke I don't like the idea. I
raced Karts with two stroke motors for many years and although you couldn't
say any of us absolutely proved things lasted longer due to no alchohol it
was as good as. Definitely synthetic oil is bad news in a two stroke if left
standing because it absorbs moisture. I think it goes without saying avgas
with it's high lead content is not good either although an odd time should
not cause a problem. The first problem of course is plug fouling but it's
not good for the bearings either. Yes my plane is in my hanger at the
airport and there is only Avgas available there so I cart my mogas in.
Rex Shaw
Australia
Classic MKIV/582
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
I think you might not get a 100% successful seal with the twist on type cap.
Don't know if you have the room but you might consider making a rig that
would elevate the tail when the wings are folded back. This might reduce
the leaking problem. Also, it's not a good ideal (opinion) to fold the
wings and leave all that weight on the tail spring. Elevate the tail and
you maybe fix two problems at the same time.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding with Full Tanks.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> I have to fold the wings to store the plane in the box trailer. I
> don't want to drain and fill each time I fly. Here's my current thoughts.
> I
> buy a set of caps, somewhere, that have no vent; or I buy a duplicate
> vented set and weld / crimp the vent shut. I then install a quick drain or
> ball valve or some such vent in the top inboard face of the tank, near or
> as part of the fuel level upper pick-up. Then, to fly, I close the inboard
> vents, spread the wings, install the vented caps, go fly. Get back:
> install
> the non-vented caps, fold wings, open inboard vents, store.
> What do you think. Do you think I can get caps that will handle
> being wet permanently without leaking? Do you think I can adequately
> install the inboard vent? Do you think it will work? Do you think I'll
> remember to open the vents or will I blow the tanks apart one day? :'(
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
John,
What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl? I would
think it closes up the opening more and would give you more funneling effect
of the air???. Any comments?
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Guy,
> I am a distributor for the UHS spinners and have had good luck with
> them...
> On the round cowl I would most likely not go over the 10"....
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> I've got a round-cowl Kitfox IV with a 582/C gearbox/warp drive three
> blade. I'm thinking of putting one of the ACS UHS fiberglass spinners on,
> in a 11" or 12" diameter. This will close off most of the cowl, leaving a
> "smile" opening below the spinner. Has anyone else done this? Was it
> successful functionally? Aesthetically? My cowl has the large opening in
> the bottom on the left, conveniently enough right in front of the radiator
> scoop, but that's another story.
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
I think you probably know this but just incase. The spinner actually
smoothes and speeds the air flow into the cowl opening/s. Now the rocket
science is the right diameter and length to match the opening and the
anticipated speed of the plane. Kind of like what is the best prop design.
Any way, just thought I would put that out there.
Rick N656T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
John,
What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl? I would
think it closes up the opening more and would give you more funneling effect
of the air???. Any comments?
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Guy,
> I am a distributor for the UHS spinners and have had good luck with
> them...
> On the round cowl I would most likely not go over the 10"....
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> I've got a round-cowl Kitfox IV with a 582/C gearbox/warp drive three
> blade. I'm thinking of putting one of the ACS UHS fiberglass spinners on,
> in a 11" or 12" diameter. This will close off most of the cowl, leaving a
> "smile" opening below the spinner. Has anyone else done this? Was it
> successful functionally? Aesthetically? My cowl has the large opening in
> the bottom on the left, conveniently enough right in front of the radiator
> scoop, but that's another story.
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Chenoweth,
There are two factors that have a big effect on how well the folded
wings match up or line up at the vertical fin. On my Model IV-1200
Speedster I purposely reduced the specified dihedral and had to bend the
connecting rods that attach the folded wing to the fuselage (to avoid
hitting the vertically folded flaperon).
This was a self induced problem. The second thing that has an effect is
how well SkyStar welded up the fuselage. Specifically the positioning
of the weldment at the wing strut attachment point to the fuselage (at
the lower longeron). If that weldment is located just a few thousands
of an inch forward or aft of its correct placement point the position of
the wings when folded will vary. It is a long way from that attachment
point to the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer. Do the math. I
personally think SkyStar does an overall good job in locating the
attachment points, but there will be some variation. No one is perfect.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Chenoweth wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>
>Paul,
>On my plane one wing folds low enough that I had to bend the hold down rod
>on that side to clear the flaperon. I'm not at all sure how this happened
>but clearly the geometry is different from side to side. That is, the pivot
>bolt is not at the same angle to the wing on each side. I don't think it
>was a SkyStar manufacturing problem - rather I think I had something not
>right when I drilled the spars-to-carry thru holes.
>Bill
>IV-1200
>
>
>
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Message 23
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
To a point that would be correct.. close it off too much and there are other
issues that can arise... A negative pressure for example... In some cases
you can actually cause the airflow to come out of the front opening of the
cowl. I used to have a video of tuft testing within a cowling... very
interesting.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
John,
What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl? I would
think it closes up the opening more and would give you more funneling effect
of the air???. Any comments?
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Guy,
> I am a distributor for the UHS spinners and have had good luck with
> them...
> On the round cowl I would most likely not go over the 10"....
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> I've got a round-cowl Kitfox IV with a 582/C gearbox/warp drive three
> blade. I'm thinking of putting one of the ACS UHS fiberglass spinners on,
> in a 11" or 12" diameter. This will close off most of the cowl, leaving a
> "smile" opening below the spinner. Has anyone else done this? Was it
> successful functionally? Aesthetically? My cowl has the large opening in
> the bottom on the left, conveniently enough right in front of the radiator
> scoop, but that's another story.
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <cliffh@outdrs.net>
I use a metal funnel and I run a ground wire from the funnel to the bolt on
the landing gear ( I have the grove gear) I run another ground wire from the
bolt on the gear to the metal frame of the hanger. Before I did this, when I
fueled with out a ground wire I could feel the static electrictly raising
the hair on my arms.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Lynn,
>
> This has been a concern of mine also. It is interesting that when fueling
> with avgas, the line boy always grounds the airplane at the exhaust stack
> which grounds the frame etc, but not the tank or filler neck. I wish I
> had
> run some of the copper tape used by stained glass artists from the filler
> neck to the spar bolt or beyond, but as I think about it I don't know how
> I
> would have attached it to the neck I have heard of fires from fueling,
> but
> none close hand.
>
> I read in one of the magazines some time ago about fueling fiberglass
> tanks
> and the recommendation was to wipe down the area around the filler neck
> with
> a wet rag which will essentially wick away any static build-up in that
> area.
> The fuel filter I use recommends it being grounded, but I haven't done it
> yet. The CDF guy that fuels in his hangar uses plastic tanks and shrugs
> his
> shoulders when questioned about it. I guess the real reason I don't fuel
> in
> my hangar is because my hangar is attached to my house and I can imagine
> the
> flack I would get if I burned down my house fueling an airplane inside.
>
> A while back someone gave a real good tip. He said that the first
> reaction
> to a little fuel spilled on the top of the wing is to grab the edge of the
> towl that protects the wing surface or another rag and wiping the spill
> up.
> Bad Bad idea as the dry rag on the fabric top is an excellent static
> electricity generator.
>
> Regarding metal tanks. My worry here would be a static charge on the tank
> and the possibility of a spark as the metal tank spout touches the filler
> neck.
>
> An aside: One of the most unnerving things I have found while working on
> the
> carbon fiber fuselage of the Lancair project is when vacuuming up the
> sanding dust from the micro. As the dust exits the fuselage surface and
> travels down the vacuum hose, it develops quite a static charge which goes
> right through me if I touch the fuselage. I have gotten into the habit of
> grounding myself as I vacuum to dissipate the static build-up..
>
> Lowell
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> Lowell-
>> The use of plastic containers brings up the question of static
>> again....how do you ground or bond the can to prevent this? I was told
>> that the very action of gasoline running through the spout in a plastic
>> can could generate static electricity. I was readying myself to only
>> use metal cans which can be grounded. Will a cable clipped to the
>> plastic can do the same thing? I know this has been talked about before.
>>
>> Lynn
>> On Friday, August 26, 2005, at 09:49 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>> I do fuel from plastic 6 gallon cans. The technique shown me was to
>>> put a
>>> towel on the top of the wingtank. Lift the can onto the towel and
>>> pour. I
>>> use one of the large filter funnels and it helps to put my thumb on the
>>> spout until the spout is over the funnel.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: painting Lp Aero doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: David Estapa <davestapa@juno.com>
Paul, I painted a 3/4 edge around door with Aerothane. Been painted
about 6 months and see no effects. Be sure to use a masking that is vapor
proof and also mask the opposite side of the window. Airborne vapors can
attack that side also.
C. David Estapa
Woodstock, GA
N97DE S5TD
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:45:57 -0500 "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
writes:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer"
> <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
> All:
>
> Has anyone any experience painting the edges of the LP Aero bubble
> doors
> with paint? Particularly with Polyfiber Aerothane?
>
> I want to trim the edges of my doors with matching fuselage colored
> paint,
> but am concerned the solvents could attack the Plexiglass. I could
> do a
> test on some scraps, but thought maybe someone has done this before
> and can
> save me some paint mixing and time. Any advice or experiences would
> be
> appreciated.
>
> Paul Seehafer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Guy
My experiance is that you do not want to deal with the extra caps (they will not
seal 100% of the time) or vents. Just don't refuel before you fold the wings.
Jim Shumaker
Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan
I have to fold the wings to store the plane in the box trailer. I
don't want to drain and fill each time I fly. Here's my current thoughts. I
buy a set of caps, somewhere, that have no vent; or I buy a duplicate
vented set and weld / crimp the vent shut. I then install a quick drain or
ball valve or some such vent in the top inboard face of the tank, near or
as part of the fuel level upper pick-up. Then, to fly, I close the inboard
vents, spread the wings, install the vented caps, go fly. Get back: install
the non-vented caps, fold wings, open inboard vents, store.
What do you think. Do you think I can get caps that will handle
being wet permanently without leaking? Do you think I can adequately
install the inboard vent? Do you think it will work? Do you think I'll
remember to open the vents or will I blow the tanks apart one day? :'(
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
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