Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:32 AM - Re: Door Latches (Michael Gibbs)
2. 03:56 AM - Kitfox Accident News (kitfox@gto.net)
3. 04:11 AM - Re: Radiator Mods (kitfox@gto.net)
4. 04:48 AM - Re: Radiator Mods (Don Smythe)
5. 05:07 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (Chenoweth)
6. 06:06 AM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Guy Buchanan)
7. 06:06 AM - Re: Folding with Full Tanks. (Guy Buchanan)
8. 06:06 AM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Guy Buchanan)
9. 06:45 AM - Re: Folding with Full Tanks. (Paul Peerenboom)
10. 06:52 AM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Jerry Liles)
11. 07:22 AM - Re: Spinner or Not? (kitfox@gto.net)
12. 07:22 AM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Don Smythe)
13. 07:30 AM - Re: Radiator Mods (kitfox@gto.net)
14. 07:36 AM - Re: Folding with Full Tanks. (Don Smythe)
15. 08:14 AM - propellers (Randy Daughenbaugh)
16. 08:14 AM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Lowell Fitt)
17. 10:58 AM - Re: propellers (Clem Nichols)
18. 11:25 AM - gas door struts (Ron Liebmann)
19. 01:05 PM - Re: Folding with Full Tanks. (John King)
20. 01:39 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Lynn Matteson)
21. 02:52 PM - Re: Folding with Full Tanks. (Jerry Liles)
22. 03:56 PM - Re: propellers (Randy Daughenbaugh)
23. 05:21 PM - Sensenich propellers (Randy Daughenbaugh)
24. 05:23 PM - Re: Kitfox Accident News (Jeffrey Puls)
25. 05:39 PM - Re: Door Latches (Rick)
26. 06:11 PM - Re: Door Latches (Ron Liebmann)
27. 06:45 PM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Guy Buchanan)
28. 06:45 PM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Guy Buchanan)
29. 06:45 PM - Re: Folding with Full Tanks. (Guy Buchanan)
30. 06:45 PM - Re: Folding with Full Tanks. (Guy Buchanan)
31. 06:45 PM - Re: Folding with Full Tanks. (Guy Buchanan)
32. 06:45 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Guy Buchanan)
33. 06:52 PM - Re: Kitfox Accident News (kitfox@gto.net)
34. 08:12 PM - Re: wing tanks (david yeamans)
35. 08:23 PM - Re: wing tanks (david yeamans)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Door Latches |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Guy sez:
>I'd like to put gas struts on the back of the door, even though I
>notice most put them in front. Does anyone else do this?
I put my previous ones on the back of the door and my next ones are
going on the back of the door, too.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 2
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| Subject: | Kitfox Accident News |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Article published Friday, August 26, 2005
Passenger hurt in crash of plane during takeoff
PUT-IN-BAY A single-engine airplane crashed during takeoff yesterday,
but caused no injuries to its pilot and minor injuries to his
passenger, the Ohio Highway Patrols Sandusky post said.
The accident occurred about 11:40 a.m. Pilot Timothy Alan Pippert, 45,
of Evans, Ga., was attempting to take off in his 1998 Kitfox Classic
IV. The plane lost altitude upon lift-off and dropped back onto the
runway, where it slid to a stop, the patrol said. The plane remained
upright, but sustained damage to its left wing, fuselage, and landing
gear.
Mr. Pipperts passenger, April D. Lavoy, 46, of Toledo, received minor
injuries. She was treated at the scene by Put-in-Bay emergency
personnel.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator Mods |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Hi Don, I was at Rotax seminar yesterday and I asked if 170 to 180 is ok
for cruise -- no problem.
My amphib floatplane with 582 cruises at 165 to 175 and only gets to
180s on long climb out . My Rad is stock and mounted with no spacers at
all. Cowl is stock. Maybe i lucky. ?
Now one thing you don't want to do is run too cold. I know a fellow
with a 582 and large rad he had to put shutters on and he runs 140--
That is too cold. And he did have a cold seizure last year.
2 Strokes like to have 140 minimum before going over 4000 RPM and if
you ever notice on start up your temp will go past 140 then pull back
as the thermostat opens up. You should wait till this happens before
WOT past 4 k because onbce the thermostat opens you get a rush of
cold coolant that can shock cool your cylinders.
Also you said 6500 WOT -- thats excellent --- you should be set for
STATIC on ground not moving 6200 rpm to get full hp available.
I read your other post as well 90 + cruise --SWEET !! What
steamlining mods have you got? I only got faired struts and tube
suspension andi run 90 to 94 mph on wheels. But i got a list i want to
do this winter. Strut cuffs 3 places on each
gear cuffs to fuselage
Radiator works so i might leave it alone.
space above horizontal stab. -should this be filled in ?
and does elevator gap seal gonna help ?
I got some VGs here in gonnna play with them on leading edge soon.
Kirby........
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
> I finally got a chance to fly the plane today after completing the
cowl and radiator mods (overheating on hot days during climb). First
off, I noticed the taxi temps were a bit higher than before. They got
up to around 160 tops. During an extended full power climb, the temps
went up to around 172 max and during cruise, around 165. I also
noticed around a 5-10 MPH speed increase however, the prop pitch was a
shy too coarse. Could only get 6500 RPM during full throttle level
flight. The OAT's today were only 85 degrees but it looks like the
modifications might be giving me a more uniform coolant temp in all
conditions. Looking now for a 90+ degree day.
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV W/ 582
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator Mods |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
See below,
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
> Hi Don, I was at Rotax seminar yesterday and I asked if 170 to 180 is ok
> for cruise -- no problem.
Agree but when it's hit 180, it's time to correct the problem.
> My amphib floatplane with 582 cruises at 165 to 175 and only gets to
> 180s on long climb out . My Rad is stock and mounted with no spacers at
> all. Cowl is stock. Maybe i lucky. ?
That is exactly what mine did but would go over 180. How much, I don't know
because I would step climb at that point and bring the temps down. Didn't
like having to step climb starting at 300' or so.
> Now one thing you don't want to do is run too cold. I know a fellow
> with a 582 and large rad he had to put shutters on and he runs 140--
Part of the mod was to put in dual shutters operated from the cockpit. I
can shut 1/2 or both sides independently. Found that it takes about 15
seconds (once a shutter is open/closed) to start seeing a change in temps.
> Also you said 6500 WOT -- thats excellent --- you should be set for
> STATIC on ground not moving 6200 rpm to get full hp available.
I've always considered 6800 the magic number but, I'm going to leave it as
is for a while. I noticed with this combination, I was able to idle down to
1900 without any vibration at all. I've seen this a few times before. It
must be a perfect balance of jetting and pitch that I seem to ge a couple
times a year???
> I read your other post as well 90 + cruise --SWEET !! What
> steamlining mods have you got? I only got faired struts and tube
The only streamline mods I have are the new rad cowl and the turtle deck. I
built the turtledeck from fiberglass sheets. It's faired in at all points
where it hits the wings (top and bottom).
> space above horizontal stab. -should this be filled in ?
I got that too from the same thin fiberglass I made the turtledeck from.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
King,
Right! Although I think the fore and aft angle of the attachment is maybe
also a factor. I'm reassured that you don't think the builder can cause
this.
I also went for the minimum dihedral and took care that the wing cleared the
stabilizer without giving a thought to the flaperon. I had noticed that I
had one a bit low. And, that is the one whose flaperon forced me to bend
the tie-back rod.
I have the luxury of a hangar so wing folding is a rare event for me.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "John King" <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
>
> Chenoweth,
>
> There are two factors that have a big effect on how well the folded
> wings match up or line up at the vertical fin. On my Model IV-1200
> Speedster I purposely reduced the specified dihedral and had to bend the
> connecting rods that attach the folded wing to the fuselage (to avoid
> hitting the vertically folded flaperon).
> This was a self induced problem. The second thing that has an effect is
> how well SkyStar welded up the fuselage. Specifically the positioning
> of the weldment at the wing strut attachment point to the fuselage (at
> the lower longeron). If that weldment is located just a few thousands
> of an inch forward or aft of its correct placement point the position of
> the wings when folded will vary. It is a long way from that attachment
> point to the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer. Do the math. I
> personally think SkyStar does an overall good job in locating the
> attachment points, but there will be some variation. No one is perfect.
> --
>
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
> Chenoweth wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> >
> >Paul,
> >On my plane one wing folds low enough that I had to bend the hold down
rod
> >on that side to clear the flaperon. I'm not at all sure how this
happened
> >but clearly the geometry is different from side to side. That is, the
pivot
> >bolt is not at the same angle to the wing on each side. I don't think it
> >was a SkyStar manufacturing problem - rather I think I had something not
> >right when I drilled the spars-to-carry thru holes.
> >Bill
> >IV-1200
> >
> >
> >
> --
>
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 05:24 PM 8/26/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
>Guy,
> I am a distributor for the UHS spinners and have had good luck
> with them...
>On the round cowl I would most likely not go over the 10"....
I have the HP hub. Will the 10" go over the whole hub? Why would you limit
the size?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 05:34 PM 8/26/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
>I think you might not get a 100% successful seal with the twist on type cap.
>Don't know if you have the room but you might consider making a rig that
>would elevate the tail when the wings are folded back.
Yes. Unfortunately I don't have the height to do it.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 05:36 PM 8/26/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
>John,
> What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl?
1. Look cool.
2. Smooths the airflow around the big lunky spinning HP Warp Drive hub,
which increases available RPM.
3. Smooths and limits the airflow entering the cowl. I can't imagine we
need much air in the cowl, given we're water cooled. The only thing that
actually needs cooling is the regulator and exhaust system. It would be
nice to keep the firewall itself relatively cool too so it doesn't heat the
cabin.
4. Look cool. (I'm hoping someone will come back with a picture of a round
cowl with big spinner. I'm a little concerned because the prop's not in the
middle of the opening.)
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
Gary on my model IV the drain off the header tank is the low spot. I
installed a fuel drain that is called a SAF-AIR PUSH DRAIN VALVE. Its in the
wicks catalog. It has a hose adapter and in a very short time you can
cleanly drain fuel so folding wings isn't a problem.
Paul N102DG
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
With reguard to item #3, I'm given to understand that as much as 1/3rd
of the heat generated is or can be removed by airflow over the engine.
Also cooling air keeps the exhaust system much cooler and reduces the
heat buildup in the cowling where you probably have your heat sensitive
regulator and, possibly, the battery. I think a lot of the problems
Kitfoxes have with overheating can be traced to poor airflow through the
cowling. All that extra heat has to be removed somehow, which can and
does overload the water cooling system especially if the radiator is not
well positioned as also seems common.
Jerry Liles
Guy Buchanan wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
>At 05:36 PM 8/26/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>
>>John,
>> What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl?
>>
>>
>
>1. Look cool.
>
>2. Smooths the airflow around the big lunky spinning HP Warp Drive hub,
>which increases available RPM.
>
>3. Smooths and limits the airflow entering the cowl. I can't imagine we
>need much air in the cowl, given we're water cooled. The only thing that
>actually needs cooling is the regulator and exhaust system. It would be
>nice to keep the firewall itself relatively cool too so it doesn't heat the
>cabin.
>
>4. Look cool. (I'm hoping someone will come back with a picture of a round
>cowl with big spinner. I'm a little concerned because the prop's not in the
>middle of the opening.)
>
>
>Guy Buchanan
>K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
I have a GSC prop and Alum spinner.
It does not make much differance on or off that i noticed in temp or
crusie but it only about 6 to 8 " (guessing)
And your airflow into your cowl is VERY important as it will cool your
exhaust as well heater hoses and block a bit and gives fresh cold air
to your Carbs. Restricting it would not be wise. Stick to what works.
Also hot air into your airflow to carbs from not enought air will
impair your performance. Just look what happens when you use carb heat
-- you lose RPM and power.
Kirby
ject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 05:36 PM 8/26/2005, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> >
> >John,
> > What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl?
>
> 1. Look cool.
>
> 2. Smooths the airflow around the big lunky spinning HP Warp Drive
hub,
> which increases available RPM.
>
> 3. Smooths and limits the airflow entering the cowl. I can't imagine
we
> need much air in the cowl, given we're water cooled. The only thing
that
> actually needs cooling is the regulator and exhaust system. It would
be
> nice to keep the firewall itself relatively cool too so it doesn't
heat the
> cabin.
>
> 4. Look cool. (I'm hoping someone will come back with a picture of a
round
> cowl with big spinner. I'm a little concerned because the prop's not
in the
> middle of the opening.)
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
I would agree with that. Reminds me of a water cooled computer system that
I was once involved with that had problems with overheating. During some
exhaustive testing, we found that the air conditionining in the room around
the computer had more effect than cooling water on the internal temps.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
>
> With reguard to item #3, I'm given to understand that as much as 1/3rd
> of the heat generated is or can be removed by airflow over the engine.
> Also cooling air keeps the exhaust system much cooler and reduces the
> heat buildup in the cowling where you probably have your heat sensitive
> regulator and, possibly, the battery. I think a lot of the problems
> Kitfoxes have with overheating can be traced to poor airflow through the
> cowling. All that extra heat has to be removed somehow, which can and
> does overload the water cooling system especially if the radiator is not
> well positioned as also seems common.
>
> Jerry Liles
>
> Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>>
>>At 05:36 PM 8/26/2005, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>>
>>>John,
>>> What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>1. Look cool.
>>
>>2. Smooths the airflow around the big lunky spinning HP Warp Drive hub,
>>which increases available RPM.
>>
>>3. Smooths and limits the airflow entering the cowl. I can't imagine we
>>need much air in the cowl, given we're water cooled. The only thing that
>>actually needs cooling is the regulator and exhaust system. It would be
>>nice to keep the firewall itself relatively cool too so it doesn't heat
>>the
>>cabin.
>>
>>4. Look cool. (I'm hoping someone will come back with a picture of a round
>>cowl with big spinner. I'm a little concerned because the prop's not in
>>the
>>middle of the opening.)
>>
>>
>>Guy Buchanan
>>K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator Mods |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Hi Don,
That sounds good.
In winter i use furnace tape over 1/2 of rad and on days close to
freezing i will hit 200 at times. But not for long.
180 to 200 is hte recommended caution area but certainly not gonna hurt
to get in the zone from time to time. over 200 steady --get down
before you boil over.
Another thing too most do not realize is that your pressure cap can
blow off at higher altitudes as the pressure increase in your cooling
system. Some are now using waterless anitfreeze which requires zero
pressure.
also i would rather cruise at 170 to 180 rather than 140 to 160 .
I would ike to make a shutter affair this winter too and I already have
a scoop on back of Radiator in winter tht covers abou 1/4 of rad and
injects the hot air from back of rad into the cabin-- Free heat and
smoke free. but below -15 to -20 C it does not feel too warm unless it
a sunny day .
6800 in air level flight sure but i think the most important number is
static 6200 as this is where ther max HP is.
Kirby......
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
I installed a 3/4" barb hose fitting in the upper large hole of the header
(for low fuel warning). Ran a 3/4" polyurethane tube to a 90 degree shutoff
valve located on the floor beneath the pilot seat. From there, went to a
brass garden hose fitting w/brass cap protruding through the bottom fabric.
I can remove the cap, screw on a short garden hose fitting and drain fuel
"quick" through a 3/4" line. The supply to the header from each wing is are
two 3/8" poly lines. I intended this for trailering where I could dump fuel
"fast" to a separate tank in the trailer.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding with Full Tanks.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom"
> <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
>
> Gary on my model IV the drain off the header tank is the low spot. I
> installed a fuel drain that is called a SAF-AIR PUSH DRAIN VALVE. Its in
> the
> wicks catalog. It has a hose adapter and in a very short time you can
> cleanly drain fuel so folding wings isn't a problem.
>
> Paul N102DG
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
A while back - last spring? - a new prop from the Ukraine (?) made a big
splash. I think it had a scimitar shape and was supposed to give great
performance. Was it called "Hot Prop"?
I am looking at other prop options and can't find any info on this prop.
Can anyone give me a website or phone number?
Thanks,
Randy
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
For what it's worth, I have a 9.5" spinner on my Modle IV with 912UL and it
generally runs a bit cool.
For an overal pic go to:
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1075488689
For a full frontal send an email address and I will take and send.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spinner or Not?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 05:36 PM 8/26/2005, you wrote:
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>
>>John,
>> What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl?
>
> 1. Look cool.
>
> 2. Smooths the airflow around the big lunky spinning HP Warp Drive hub,
> which increases available RPM.
>
> 3. Smooths and limits the airflow entering the cowl. I can't imagine we
> need much air in the cowl, given we're water cooled. The only thing that
> actually needs cooling is the regulator and exhaust system. It would be
> nice to keep the firewall itself relatively cool too so it doesn't heat
> the
> cabin.
>
> 4. Look cool. (I'm hoping someone will come back with a picture of a round
> cowl with big spinner. I'm a little concerned because the prop's not in
> the
> middle of the opening.)
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Randy:
Go to www.kievpropamerica.com. An American distributor is B & B Sport
Aviation. You can find their web-site by going to Google and entering B & B
Sport Aviation. I put one of the props on a Rans S12 with a 582 Rotax I had
a couple of years ago. I think it was quieter, but in all honesty I can't
say that I saw any significant improvement in the plane's performance.
Yours for what it's worth.
Clem Nichols
'
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: propellers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> A while back - last spring? - a new prop from the Ukraine (?) made a big
> splash. I think it had a scimitar shape and was supposed to give great
> performance. Was it called "Hot Prop"?
>
> I am looking at other prop options and can't find any info on this prop.
> Can anyone give me a website or phone number?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy
>
>
>
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
If any listers need the Guden gas struts they are priced as follows: GGS43-060-K
2 @ 9.270 18.54
# GGS43-P160 POUNDS EF110
3.15 STROKE CHROME ROD
I put the number GGS43-060-K into Google and signed up with them. They are the
same as came with my Fox and look at the price! $9.27 each + shipping.
Ron N55KF
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Guy,
My concern would be excessive forces placed on the folded wings when
there is any significant amount of fuel in the wing tanks. That is a
lot of unsupported weight, especially if the trailer is on the road.
SkyStar does provide detachable wing braces to support the wings at the
leading edge when the wings are folded, but they were not intended to be
used when fuel in still in the tanks. I would opt for a method to
quickly drain the tanks like Don Smythe and others have done.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Guy Buchanan wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> I have to fold the wings to store the plane in the box trailer. I
>don't want to drain and fill each time I fly. Here's my current thoughts. I
>buy a set of caps, somewhere, that have no vent; or I buy a duplicate
>vented set and weld / crimp the vent shut. I then install a quick drain or
>ball valve or some such vent in the top inboard face of the tank, near or
>as part of the fuel level upper pick-up. Then, to fly, I close the inboard
>vents, spread the wings, install the vented caps, go fly. Get back: install
>the non-vented caps, fold wings, open inboard vents, store.
> What do you think. Do you think I can get caps that will handle
>being wet permanently without leaking? Do you think I can adequately
>install the inboard vent? Do you think it will work? Do you think I'll
>remember to open the vents or will I blow the tanks apart one day? :'(
>
>Guy Buchanan
>K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Lowell-
After I heard of the plastic fuel can/static scenario, I soldered a
1/4" plated, braided copper bonding/ground strap to my metal filler
neck (SS fiberglas tanks). This was quite easy to do, as I was covered,
and at the polybrush stage. I ran this very flat strap straight back
from the neck, made a gentle ~1" radius curve, flat on the surface of
the wing over to the root rib, and down through the covering to the
rear spar, where I left about 6" to be later attached to the rear spar
attach bolt with an eye terminal.
I covered the strap with finishing tape, and proceeded with the
covering process. All that can be seen is a 1/4" wide by about 1/16"
high linear "hump". Photos if you'd like...just holler...raw stage or
painted.
Regarding your
On Friday, August 26, 2005, at 07:13 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Lynn,
>
> This has been a concern of mine also. It is interesting that when
> fueling
> with avgas, the line boy always grounds the airplane at the exhaust
> stack
> which grounds the frame etc, but not the tank or filler neck. I wish
> I had
> run some of the copper tape used by stained glass artists from the
> filler
> neck to the spar bolt or beyond, but as I think about it I don't know
> how I
> would have attached it to the neck I have heard of fires from
> fueling, but
> none close hand.
>
>
> Regarding metal tanks. My worry here would be a static charge on the
> tank
> and the possibility of a spark as the metal tank spout touches the
> filler
> neck.
Maybe attaching a wire to the plane's neck first, then to the metal
can would eliminate this? Somebody with more electrical savvy better
jump in here.
> Lowell
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
John is correct. I know of at least one Avid that broke a frame tube
from trailering the airplane with fuel in the tanks even with the extra
wing root brace. The weight of the fuel puts a lot of torgue and strain
on the hinge point and the shocks incurred with trailering are sharper
than those encountered in flying. Empty the tanks if you are going to
move the plane.
Jerry Liles
John King wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
>
>Guy,
>
>My concern would be excessive forces placed on the folded wings when
>there is any significant amount of fuel in the wing tanks. That is a
>lot of unsupported weight, especially if the trailer is on the road.
>SkyStar does provide detachable wing braces to support the wings at the
>leading edge when the wings are folded, but they were not intended to be
>used when fuel in still in the tanks. I would opt for a method to
>quickly drain the tanks like Don Smythe and others have done.
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Clem,
Thanks much! And thanks for the report on your experience with it!
Randy
Do not archive.
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: propellers
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Randy:
Go to www.kievpropamerica.com. An American distributor is B & B Sport
Aviation. You can find their web-site by going to Google and entering B & B
Sport Aviation. I put one of the props on a Rans S12 with a 582 Rotax I had
a couple of years ago. I think it was quieter, but in all honesty I can't
say that I saw any significant improvement in the plane's performance.
Yours for what it's worth.
Clem Nichols
'
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: propellers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> A while back - last spring? - a new prop from the Ukraine (?) made a big
> splash. I think it had a scimitar shape and was supposed to give great
> performance. Was it called "Hot Prop"?
>
> I am looking at other prop options and can't find any info on this prop.
> Can anyone give me a website or phone number?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Sensenich propellers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
A question on another prop.
For the last five years, Sensenich has been developing a composite ground
adjustable prop for Rotax, Jabiru, Subaru, etc. engines.
http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/carbon_faq-2.pdf
Has anyone used this prop yet? It is from Sensenich, so I would expect it
to be pretty good.
Thanks,
Randy - Still looking for more speed....
Message 24
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| Subject: | Kitfox Accident News |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
I talked to my hanger neihgbor today. He had his RV-6 up at Put-In-Bay when
this accident happened. He said that the flaperon hinge pin was loose and
fell out. He was heading for the water and slammed it on the runway. It
stopped upright. My buddy said that he heard the female tell the guy that
she was never goiung to get in an airplane with him again. Jeff Classic IV
Columbus, Ohio
> [Original Message]
> From: <kitfox@gto.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 8/27/2005 6:52:50 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Accident News
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> Article published Friday, August 26, 2005
>
> Passenger hurt in crash of plane during takeoff
>
>
> PUT-IN-BAY A single-engine airplane crashed during takeoff yesterday,
> but caused no injuries to its pilot and minor injuries to his
> passenger, the Ohio Highway Patrols Sandusky post said.
>
> The accident occurred about 11:40 a.m. Pilot Timothy Alan Pippert, 45,
> of Evans, Ga., was attempting to take off in his 1998 Kitfox Classic
> IV. The plane lost altitude upon lift-off and dropped back onto the
> runway, where it slid to a stop, the patrol said. The plane remained
> upright, but sustained damage to its left wing, fuselage, and landing
> gear.
>
> Mr. Pipperts passenger, April D. Lavoy, 46, of Toledo, received minor
> injuries. She was treated at the scene by Put-in-Bay emergency
> personnel.
>
>
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
The reason they are in the front is so you dont get hung up if you bail out
at high speeds. :)
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael
Gibbs
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Door Latches
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Guy sez:
>I'd like to put gas struts on the back of the door, even though I
>notice most put them in front. Does anyone else do this?
I put my previous ones on the back of the door and my next ones are
going on the back of the door, too.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Door Latches |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
I had my first set of gas struts on the back of the door but the next set
went to the front. When I flew with the doors open with rear struts the
doors did not fly steadily. On the front edge the doors are rock steady.
Ron N55KF
>
>>I'd like to put gas struts on the back of the door, even though I
>>notice most put them in front. Does anyone else do this?
>
> I put my previous ones on the back of the door and my next ones are
> going on the back of the door, too.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:18 AM 8/27/2005, you wrote:
...
>Also hot air into your airflow to carbs from not enought air will
>impair your performance. Just look what happens when you use carb heat
> -- you lose RPM and power.
This is telling. I might have to re-think the spinner. However, I've got a
finite amount of exit area, defined by the lower cowl exit and the ring
around the forward cowl. Do you think it will help to have more than 80% of
the exit area? Do you think the inlet pressurizes enough to drive the exit
at high pressure?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Now that's what I'm talking about!
Although the spinner I'm looking at will be larger and will actually
overlap the cowl at the top. If I can't get a more definitive answer I'll
give it a try and check out any cooling and performance degradation. I'm
especially concerned about inlet air temperature, though I could build an
inlet plenum. I think I'll also go for the smaller 11" spinner, though I've
still got to calculate the resulting inlet area.
(PS I've GOT to ask. Just WHAT is that contraption on your wing strut!)
At 08:12 AM 8/27/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>For what it's worth, I have a 9.5" spinner on my Modle IV with 912UL and it
>generally runs a bit cool.
>
>For an overal pic go to:
>
>http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1075488689
>
>For a full frontal send an email address and I will take and send.
>
>Lowell
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:14 AM 8/27/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
>I installed a 3/4" barb hose fitting in the upper large hole of the header
>(for low fuel warning).
...
Interesting idea. I might try this. Thanks.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 01:01 PM 8/27/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
>
>Guy,
>
>My concern would be excessive forces placed on the folded wings when
>there is any significant amount of fuel in the wing tanks. That is a
>lot of unsupported weight, especially if the trailer is on the road.
>SkyStar does provide detachable wing braces to support the wings at the
>leading edge when the wings are folded, but they were not intended to be
>used when fuel in still in the tanks. I would opt for a method to
>quickly drain the tanks like Don Smythe and others have done.
I was actually contemplating a "really substantial" support for the back of
the frame and the wings. Don't ask me what it would look like, but it would
fold up from the floor of my trailer and support the fuselage at the towing
holes while supporting the wings under the outboard ribs with a wing shaped
saddle. Sigh, more work.
Actually I don't intend to tow the plane around very much. The airport will
let me park my toy box there for a tie down price so my Kit will live in
it's "hangar" at the airport.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Folding with Full Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 06:41 AM 8/27/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
>
>Gary on my model IV the drain off the header tank is the low spot. I
>installed a fuel drain that is called a SAF-AIR PUSH DRAIN VALVE. Its in the
>wicks catalog. It has a hose adapter and in a very short time you can
>cleanly drain fuel so folding wings isn't a problem.
I've got 27 gallons of tankage. I'll calculate it, but
1. it will probably take forever; and
2. I'll have to store up to 30 gallons of fuel in my box. (It seems safer
when it's in the airplane. Don't ask me why!)
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 01:38 PM 8/27/2005, you wrote:
...
>I covered the strap with finishing tape, and proceeded with the
>covering process. All that can be seen is a 1/4" wide by about 1/16"
>high linear "hump". Photos if you'd like...just holler...raw stage or
>painted.
I like this. I'm going to have to do something to connect the filler to the
rear spar. I think you're also supposed to attach a chain to the steel
filler neck to pick up any static in the fuel. Or is it the other way around?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Accident News |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Where i attach the flapperon rod on wing fold out under the turtleledeck
i tossed the "t " bolts and used an3 with a metal lock nut and also a
safety pin.
pretty close to fail safe at that linkage. But you need 2 - 3/8 "
wrench to take apart to fold wings but I ony do that if it needs to go
in shop and it takes 5 mins from start to parked inside.
kirby.....
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls"
<pulsair@mindspring.com>
>
> I talked to my hanger neihgbor today. He had his RV-6 up at
Put-In-Bay when
> this accident happened. He said that the flaperon hinge pin was loose
and
> fell out. He was heading for the water and slammed it on the runway.
It
> stopped upright. My buddy said that he heard the female tell the guy
that
> she was never goiung to get in an airplane with him again. Jeff
Classic IV
> Columbus, Ohio
>
Message 34
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" <dafox@ckt.net>
I received my kitfox 4-1200 Kit in oct. 1992. Manual said to fill tanks
with water to check for
leaks. I let set for 2 days, and no leaks. ( 13 gal. tanks ) Drained, and let
air dry and installed 6
months later, sealed off opening's with masking tape and never put fuel in them
until Dec. 2000. thats
when the Kitfox was test flown. ( 8 years later ) 5 more years and 1200 gallons
of fuel i poured
into those tanks and never yet had a leak. I use plastic 2 gallon tanks from walmart
with a pull
out spout to pour gas into tanks, and never used a funnel. Always use a towel around
filler and leave
vent cap on until the spout is in the tank. I've never had a problem with the
tanks or a leak, I guess
I've been real lucky.
Kitfox 4-1200,
912UL N 317DY David
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
You'll get several opinions on this. I would fill the tanks with
"gasoline", plug all the holes and do a "MOUTH" only pressure test. If they
don't leak, use as is. Kreeme is only designed to plug pin holes. If you
don't have any then you don't need to plug them.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim cantrell" <jcant1@direcway.com>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: wing tanks
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jim cantrell <jcant1@direcway.com>
>
> I have new 10 year old tanks that I have removed old kreem with acetone
> and flushed with water, I can not find any leaks after testing as per
> manual, question is, to reseal or install as is?
> Jim Cantrell
> Series 5 TD
>
>
>
Message 35
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" <dafox@ckt.net>
Afriend of mine had a leak in one of his 13 gal. wing tanks, and it was the top
of the tank. He cut
an H in the fabric and folded it back to expose the complete top of the tank, and
epoxy to seal it.
used a putty knife and forced the epoxy into the PIN HOLES, not a thick layer,
just enough to
seal it. Never had a leak again,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
You'll get several opinions on this. I would fill the tanks with
"gasoline", plug all the holes and do a "MOUTH" only pressure test. If they
don't leak, use as is. Kreeme is only designed to plug pin holes. If you
don't have any then you don't need to plug them.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim cantrell" <jcant1@direcway.com>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: wing tanks
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jim cantrell <jcant1@direcway.com>
>
> I have new 10 year old tanks that I have removed old kreem with acetone
> and flushed with water, I can not find any leaks after testing as per
> manual, question is, to reseal or install as is?
> Jim Cantrell
> Series 5 TD
>
>
>
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