Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:45 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (cygan@optusnet.com.au)
2. 01:53 AM - Re: gas door struts (daniel johnson)
3. 05:19 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Ron Liebmann)
4. 05:33 AM - Re: Anyone know how to contact Dan Melnik? (vft@AOL.COM)
5. 05:40 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (mscotter@comcast.net)
6. 05:53 AM - Re: Return Springs (Kerry Skyring)
7. 06:16 AM - SV: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Michel Verheughe)
8. 06:25 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (flier)
9. 07:02 AM - Re: S5 Tailwheel leaf springs (Steve Zakreski)
10. 07:07 AM - Re: Oil draining to sump after shutdown (Lowell Fitt)
11. 07:19 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Don Pearsall)
12. 08:18 AM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Guy Buchanan)
13. 08:47 AM - Re: Spinner or Not? (kitfoxjunky)
14. 09:48 AM - Re: gas door struts (Don Pearsall)
15. 11:33 AM - landings (Marco Menezes)
16. 11:33 AM - 912s Oil cooler (Todd Lesh)
17. 11:33 AM - 912s Oil cooler (Todd Lesh)
18. 11:36 AM - Re: Spinner or Not? (Guy Buchanan)
19. 12:55 PM - Re: landings (Michel Verheughe)
20. 06:22 PM - Re: landings (Ben Baltrusaitis)
21. 07:38 PM - Re: landings (jareds)
22. 08:24 PM - Re: landings (John Perry)
23. 08:48 PM - Re: landings (jareds)
24. 09:02 PM - Re: landings (AMuller589@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: cygan@optusnet.com.au
G'Day Matt,
That looks like a D/H Buffalo -- US Army had some.
Cheers
cy
> Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
> looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
> unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
> elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
>
> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>
> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
Same for you guys with SUSPA struts...like on my 3. Go to the suspa
homepage, find a local dealer. I got mine in a couple days...Dan Johnson
>From: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: gas door struts Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:22:19 -0500
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
>
>If any listers need the Guden gas struts they are priced as follows:
>GGS43-060-K 2 @ 9.270 18.54
>
># GGS43-P160 POUNDS EF110
>
> 3.15 STROKE CHROME ROD
>
>I put the number GGS43-060-K into Google and signed up with them. They
>are the same as came with my Fox and look at the price! $9.27 each +
>shipping.
>
>
>Ron N55KF
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
When you look at te film in a stop frame method you cannot see any elevator
deflection. Same for the rudder & ailerons. No attempt was made to correct
the flight path.
Ron
> Hi Listers,
>
> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
> looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
> unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
> elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
>
> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>
> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>
> Matt
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone know how to contact Dan Melnik? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: vft@aol.com
Hi Dave,
I'm here.
407-687-3126
Danny Melnik
F1 #25
Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory
-----Original Message-----
From: Aerobatics@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Anyone know how to contact Dan Melnik?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
Thanks
Dave Patrick
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: mscotter@comcast.net
That sure looked (and sounded) real to me. Especially the post-crash fire. I
fly RC aircraft and have for years. If that was a model, somebody deserves a
medal for realism.
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: cygan@optusnet.com.au
>
> G'Day Matt,
>
> That looks like a D/H Buffalo -- US Army had some.
>
> Cheers
>
> cy
>
>
> > Matt Dralle wrote:
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
> >
> >
> > Hi Listers,
> >
> > Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
> > looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
> > unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
> > elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
> >
> > http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
> >
> > Any information on this video would be intersting.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> > 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
> > http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
That sure looked (and sounded) real to me. Especially the post-crash fire. I fly
RC aircraft and have for years. If that was a model, somebody deserves a medal
for realism.
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: cygan@optusnet.com.au
G'Day Matt,
That looks like a D/H Buffalo -- US Army had some.
Cheers
cy
Matt Dralle <DRALLE@MATRONICS.COM>wrote:
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.w
mv
Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
====
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
Servus Johannes,
Nice to know there's another Austrian Kitfox builder on the list. Sorry to
hear about the loss of your Fox. I'm helping Johann Mhlberger build an S5
at Stockerau and we are nearly ready to fly. We would love to have you drop
by and cast an eye over it some day. Send me an email off-list and I
can give some contact details.
Kerry
DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Ron Liebmann [rliebmann@comcast.net]
> When you look at te film in a stop frame method you cannot see any elevator
> deflection. Same for the rudder & ailerons. No attempt was made to correct
> the flight path.
With the help of the date displayed on the video and a bit of Google, I found this
report. (see below)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
The accident aircraft is a highly modified de Havilland aircraft. In this case
a Caribou had been converted to turbine power and was operated under the EXPERIMENTAL
category of CAR 4b.
The conversion was accomplished at Gimli, and the aircraft first flew in mid-November
1991, before accumulating about 23 hours on 12 flights by month end.
These preliminary tests revealed the need for the replacement of the aircraft.s
mechanical vacuum pumps with a Bendix suction system, the addition of in-line
fuel boost pumps and the installation of a newly designed hydraulic pump.
The accident occurred on August 27, 1992 on the first of several planned trips
to flight-
check the fuel and hydraulic systems. The aircraft had been hangared in a partially
dis-
assembled state over the winter, and had only recently been re-assembled, including
the re-installation of the complete tail section.
I.ll let the video show you what happened.and I will caution you right now that
this
footage is extremely graphic.
The accident investigation used this videotape and some 35mm photographs as a key
resource in determining what went wrong at Gimli.
With the exception of a slightly higher-than-normal nose attitude at lift-off,
the aircraft.s
initial climb appeared normal. At about 35 feet AGL, the aircraft made a noticeable
pitch- up movement.
When I tell you that the photography revealed that the elevator control surfaces
were
observed to pitch trailing-edge-up for rotation, neutralize and then remain in
the neutral
position through the balance of that short flight, I expect most of you will come
to the
same conclusion as the Transportation Safety Board of Canada. The aircraft.s control
gust locks were at least partly engaged.
A very close examination of the video does indicate rudder movement and minimal
elevator movement, during the start of the takeoff roll.
On the standard Caribou, the gust lock control handle is located forward of the
power
quadrant, and it has two positions.forward for Unlocked, and aft for Locked. If
the
control surfaces are not in the neutral position when the lock is engaged, any
movement of the surfaces through the neutral position will cause the lock to engage.
In addition, on the factory-standard Caribou, the control handle is designed so
that when it is in the aft-Locked position, the power levers cannot be fully
advanced. This is
intended to prevent power application and takeoff when the gust lock system is
engaged.
The accident investigation further revealed that the aircraft.s takeoff distance
was
approximately 20 per cent longer than anticipated for the conditions. This may
provide
further evidence that the gust locks played a part in this event.
Analysis of the recovered debris indicated that, although the aileron and elevator
locking mechanisms were in their respective Disengaged positions, the rudder
locking
mechanism was found to have been in the fully engaged position at impact.
Further investigation revealed that in fact, it had been jammed there by the forces
of the impact. In addition, the analysis determined from the damage evidence
that the aileron control lock had been dis-engaged at the time of impact.
In its synopsis of the accident, the Transportation Safety Board concluded that
the control gust lock system had not been fully disengaged prior to flight and
that one or more of the locking pins had become re-engaged after lift-off.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
The site says the Caribou was experimental and had
just been converted to P&W turbo prop engines from
P&W R-2000 piston engines. The aircraft took off
with the gust locks engaged.
--- Original Message ---
From: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Anyone Know The Story
Behind This Crash?
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann"
<rliebmann@comcast.net>
>
>When you look at te film in a stop frame method you
cannot see any elevator
>deflection. Same for the rudder & ailerons. No
attempt was made to correct
>the flight path.
>
>Ron
>
>
>> Hi Listers,
>>
>> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft
and the crash? Almost
>> looks like an RC model especially given the
cameraman's rather
>> unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of
looks like the
>> elevator may have been hooked up backwards
following a rebuild.
>>
>> http://media4.big-
boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>>
>> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>>
>> Matt
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
======================================================
======
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | S5 Tailwheel leaf springs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
I have a Grove tail wheel spring and haven't touched it since it was
installed. It looks like it will outlast the aircraft.
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Skyring
Subject: Kitfox-List: S5 Tailwheel leaf springs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring"
<kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
Turning to the list for help once more... We are planning to replace the
standard 2 leaf spring with something stronger. Some time back it was
mentioned that Aircraft Spruce sold a leaf spring set for another plane
(Cub, Champ?) that went straight into the Maule tailwheel and the bolt
positions
matched up to the Kitfox. Can anyone say which of the AS three leaf spring
sets fits the S5 with
standard Maule tailwheel? We realise we will need longer bolts etc...
Also Skystar was rumoured to be developing a replacement leaf spring set but
I can find no evidence of it on the website. Has anyone heard anything?
Kerry
>
>
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Oil draining to sump after shutdown |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Herb,
Thanks for the post. I have been thinking of such a system, but planned to
install it in the oil tank. I didn't because it would have meant shortening
the pick up tube a little and didn't want to modify the tank. In line? Why
didn't I think of that.
Thanks again, I'll try it.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herbert R Gottelt" <gofalke@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Oil draining to sump after shutdown
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Herbert R Gottelt
> <gofalke@sbcglobal.net>
>
> When first running the 912 in 1997 I did not realize the oil syphoning
> back to the sump. I thought the engine was low on oil and I refilled it to
> the mark just before the next engine start. What a mess it caused!
> I installed a small check valve between the tank and the oil cooler so it
> was free flowing with the spring removed ,and the side where the spring
> formerly was I raised up to 90 degrees. That was sufficient to stop the
> oil flow after shutdown. The suction of the oil pump raises the ball,
> permitting unrestricted oil flow.
> I have this system since 1997 and never had any problems with it.
>
> Herbert Gottelt, M-IV-1200.
> Mount Prospect, IL
> .
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Good job on the research, Michel!
That video was every pilot's nightmare, and forgetting to disengage the gust
lock could happen to anyone. However this system failed somehow, as
advancing the throttle was supposed to disengage the elevator lock.
Obviously that did not happen.
When the plane was re-assembled, the gust lock was put together wrong and
never tested to make sure it released automatically. Fatal error.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Ron Liebmann [rliebmann@comcast.net]
> When you look at te film in a stop frame method you cannot see any
elevator
> deflection. Same for the rudder & ailerons. No attempt was made to correct
> the flight path.
With the help of the date displayed on the video and a bit of Google, I
found this report. (see below)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
The accident aircraft is a highly modified de Havilland aircraft. In this
case a Caribou had been converted to turbine power and was operated under
the EXPERIMENTAL category of CAR 4b.
The conversion was accomplished at Gimli, and the aircraft first flew in
mid-November
1991, before accumulating about 23 hours on 12 flights by month end.
These preliminary tests revealed the need for the replacement of the
aircraft.s mechanical vacuum pumps with a Bendix suction system, the
addition of in-line fuel boost pumps and the installation of a newly
designed hydraulic pump.
The accident occurred on August 27, 1992 on the first of several planned
trips to flight-
check the fuel and hydraulic systems. The aircraft had been hangared in a
partially dis-
assembled state over the winter, and had only recently been re-assembled,
including the re-installation of the complete tail section.
I.ll let the video show you what happened.and I will caution you right now
that this
footage is extremely graphic.
The accident investigation used this videotape and some 35mm photographs as
a key
resource in determining what went wrong at Gimli.
With the exception of a slightly higher-than-normal nose attitude at
lift-off, the aircraft.s
initial climb appeared normal. At about 35 feet AGL, the aircraft made a
noticeable pitch- up movement.
When I tell you that the photography revealed that the elevator control
surfaces were
observed to pitch trailing-edge-up for rotation, neutralize and then remain
in the neutral
position through the balance of that short flight, I expect most of you will
come to the
same conclusion as the Transportation Safety Board of Canada. The aircraft.s
control
gust locks were at least partly engaged.
A very close examination of the video does indicate rudder movement and
minimal
elevator movement, during the start of the takeoff roll.
On the standard Caribou, the gust lock control handle is located forward of
the power
quadrant, and it has two positions.forward for Unlocked, and aft for Locked.
If the
control surfaces are not in the neutral position when the lock is engaged,
any movement of the surfaces through the neutral position will cause the
lock to engage.
In addition, on the factory-standard Caribou, the control handle is designed
so that when it is in the aft-Locked position, the power levers cannot be
fully advanced. This is
intended to prevent power application and takeoff when the gust lock system
is engaged.
The accident investigation further revealed that the aircraft.s takeoff
distance was
approximately 20 per cent longer than anticipated for the conditions. This
may provide
further evidence that the gust locks played a part in this event.
Analysis of the recovered debris indicated that, although the aileron and
elevator locking mechanisms were in their respective Disengaged positions,
the rudder locking
mechanism was found to have been in the fully engaged position at impact.
Further investigation revealed that in fact, it had been jammed there by the
forces of the impact. In addition, the analysis determined from the damage
evidence that the aileron control lock had been dis-engaged at the time of
impact.
In its synopsis of the accident, the Transportation Safety Board concluded
that the control gust lock system had not been fully disengaged prior to
flight and that one or more of the locking pins had become re-engaged after
lift-off.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Thanks Gary. It looks like I could go with the 11 or even 12" with no problem.
Guy
At 01:23 PM 8/29/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
>
>I saw no impact on cooling when I replaced the NSI spinner with the larger
>UHS 10"
>
>
>Gary Walsh
>C-GOOT
>www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
>do not archive
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
>John,
> What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl? I would
>
>think it closes up the opening more and would give you more funneling
>effect
>of the air???. Any comments?
>
>Don Smythe
>Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Guy
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
Serialize complete at 08/30/2005 11:44:20 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
I have seen the 9", which is pointier than my 10". Not sure of the
profile of the 11" or 12". Why do you want to use such a large spinner?
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Thanks Gary. It looks like I could go with the 11 or even 12" with no
problem.
Guy
At 01:23 PM 8/29/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
<kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
>
>I saw no impact on cooling when I replaced the NSI spinner with the
larger
>UHS 10"
>
>
>Gary Walsh
>C-GOOT
>www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
>do not archive
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
>John,
> What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl? I
would
>
>think it closes up the opening more and would give you more funneling
>effect
>of the air???. Any comments?
>
>Don Smythe
>Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Guy
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Another good source of gas struts is any RV supply store, such as Camping
World. They always have wide selection of struts in different lengths and
strength ratings. Price is under $25.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of daniel johnson
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: gas door struts
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
Same for you guys with SUSPA struts...like on my 3. Go to the suspa
homepage, find a local dealer. I got mine in a couple days...Dan Johnson
>From: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: gas door struts Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:22:19 -0500
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
>
>If any listers need the Guden gas struts they are priced as follows:
>GGS43-060-K 2 @ 9.270 18.54
>
># GGS43-P160 POUNDS EF110
>
> 3.15 STROKE CHROME ROD
>
>I put the number GGS43-060-K into Google and signed up with them. They
>are the same as came with my Fox and look at the price! $9.27 each +
>shipping.
>
>
>Ron N55KF
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Now that the sheer euphoria of flight has lessened somewhat, I'm starting to pay
attention to all those little boxes on my testflight protocols. In determining
slow flight handling characteristics and stall speed, I've observed that my
Model 2 doesn't really stall at all. It "mushes."
I've also learned that this characteristic makes "full stall" landings problematic.
The airplane doesn't really flare to a stall, it mushes it's way onto the
ground. On a dead-stick landings, at least for me, this has resulted in some
rather hard bounces. Applying power just before touchdown (at about 35 mph indicated)
only seems to make it want to fly again.
Is this characteristic of a Model 2's performance or do I have an elevator rigging
problem? Is there a particular landing technique I need to practice and learn?
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Todd Lesh" <theleshfamily@gbronline.com>
Can anyone tell me the model # of the Earl oil cooler alot of you are using
with 912S? Thanks, Todd Lesh
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Todd Lesh" <theleshfamily@gbronline.com>
Can anyone tell me the model # of the Earl oil cooler alot of you are using
with 912S? Thanks, Todd Lesh
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner or Not? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Mostly I think it would look good. It might also reduce drag a bit.
Guy
At 08:44 AM 8/30/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
>
> I have seen the 9", which is pointier than my 10". Not sure of the
>profile of the 11" or 12". Why do you want to use such a large spinner?
>
>Gary Walsh
>C-GOOT
>www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
>do not archive
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
>Thanks Gary. It looks like I could go with the 11 or even 12" with no
>problem.
>
>Guy
>
>At 01:23 PM 8/29/2005, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
><kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
> >
> >I saw no impact on cooling when I replaced the NSI spinner with the
>larger
> >UHS 10"
> >
> >
> >Gary Walsh
> >C-GOOT
> >www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
> >
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> >
> >John,
> > What exactly does the dia of a spinner do for the round cowl? I
>would
> >
> >think it closes up the opening more and would give you more funneling
> >effect
> >of the air???. Any comments?
> >
> >Don Smythe
> >Classic IV W/ 582
> >
> >
>
>Guy
>
>
Guy
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Marco Menezes wrote:
> I've observed that my Model 2 doesn't really stall at all. It "mushes."
Marco, it looks like your model 2 behaves much like my model 3! :-)
If I fly, pull the throttle to idle, let the plane slow down and pull the
stick, I end up not being able to get under stall speed as the plane mushes
down at about 400 fpm. What is nice, though, is that you still have full bank
control as the flaperons won't stall. One wing (usually the left one on my
plane) will dip but you can easily regain control and level attitude.
When landing, it is, of course, hard to full stall the plane. I think your
model 2 has even less elevator surface than my model 3. What helps, though, is
to gap-seal the elevator. Just any kind of tape will do, as a test. It was only
after gap sealing my Kitfox that I managed to do a true three-points landing.
Try it and try to touch with the tailwheel first. That will slightly push your
nose down and with a lesser angle of attack, you won't bounce like a ball. Mind
you, landing on two wheels, the tail a bit up is no problem at all. But it took
me a long time to place the plane at the right position so that the landing
doesn't bounce. It's just a matter of time and training. I just can't explain
how I land, it's a very personal relation between the plane and me. Many of my
landings are so-and-so. But when it goes just smooth and perfect ... it's
better than sex! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
But when it goes just smooth and perfect ... it's
better than sex! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Michel, I thought we were close to the same age, but you must be much, much older...
Ben
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Marco,
Sadly my model 4 is finally cured of major issues to where i've had a
chance to just work on a few landings.
I have a pretty wild strip on my ranch with the entire field basically
on a hill.
Seems like a steep incline but have landed on paved strips much steeper.
Last week i set out to grease just one landing before calling it a day.
Carrying some power or adding it at the end seems to help but with a
short strip it tends to extend things more than i'd like. I stall at 42
so 55 is the minimum that i'll do short final. I can't master a wheel
landing to save my life but after several attempts i think i've finally
figured out a routine for full stall. By carrying that little bit of
power my tailwheel sits down just like michael said. then the mains
come down gently as long as i've carried a little power or as long as i
don't flare way up in the air. Very tricky on the alfalfa field strip
but on a paved runway i'ts kept on working.
An airline pilot checking me out in a 200mph arrow several years ago
said he carries a little power in all his planes just like they taught
him when flying the 747 so I guess i'm going to prove his theory correct
over the next few weeks.
Marco Menezes wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
>Now that the sheer euphoria of flight has lessened somewhat, I'm starting to pay
attention to all those little boxes on my testflight protocols. In determining
slow flight handling characteristics and stall speed, I've observed that my
Model 2 doesn't really stall at all. It "mushes."
>
>I've also learned that this characteristic makes "full stall" landings problematic.
The airplane doesn't really flare to a stall, it mushes it's way onto the
ground. On a dead-stick landings, at least for me, this has resulted in some
rather hard bounces. Applying power just before touchdown (at about 35 mph indicated)
only seems to make it want to fly again.
>
>Is this characteristic of a Model 2's performance or do I have an elevator rigging
problem? Is there a particular landing technique I need to practice and learn?
>
>
>Marco Menezes
>Model 2 582 N99KX
>
>---------------------------------
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
where in America is your ranch . Im in sw wind blowin no water flatland
Kansas.
I love to visit new fields and strips and make trips.
take care fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
kitfox 2 N718PD
-------Original Message-------
From: jareds
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landings
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Marco,
Sadly my model 4 is finally cured of major issues to where i've had a
chance to just work on a few landings.
I have a pretty wild strip on my ranch with the entire field basically
on a hill.
Seems like a steep incline but have landed on paved strips much steeper.
Last week i set out to grease just one landing before calling it a day.
Carrying some power or adding it at the end seems to help but with a
short strip it tends to extend things more than i'd like. I stall at 42
so 55 is the minimum that i'll do short final. I can't master a wheel
landing to save my life but after several attempts i think i've finally
figured out a routine for full stall. By carrying that little bit of
power my tailwheel sits down just like michael said. then the mains
come down gently as long as i've carried a little power or as long as i
don't flare way up in the air. Very tricky on the alfalfa field strip
but on a paved runway i'ts kept on working.
An airline pilot checking me out in a 200mph arrow several years ago
said he carries a little power in all his planes just like they taught
him when flying the 747 so I guess i'm going to prove his theory correct
over the next few weeks.
Marco Menezes wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
>Now that the sheer euphoria of flight has lessened somewhat, I'm starting
to pay attention to all those little boxes on my testflight protocols. In
determining slow flight handling characteristics and stall speed, I've
observed that my Model 2 doesn't really stall at all. It "mushes."
>
>I've also learned that this characteristic makes "full stall" landings
problematic. The airplane doesn't really flare to a stall, it mushes it's
way onto the ground. On a dead-stick landings, at least for me, this has
resulted in some rather hard bounces. Applying power just before touchdown
(at about 35 mph indicated) only seems to make it want to fly again.
>
>Is this characteristic of a Model 2's performance or do I have an elevator
rigging problem? Is there a particular landing technique I need to practice
and learn?
>
>
>Marco Menezes
>Model 2 582 N99KX
>
>---------------------------------
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
>
>
Message 23
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
South Dakota!
There is another new flyer on the list with a field not far from Mt
Rushmore also.
Meeting more and more flyers now that i'm back in the area. Visitors
are always welcome and I even have a bulk fuel tank with regular gas.
Email me offline if you are ever interested in visiting all of us.
Sure beats the scenery in DC where my fox took first flight!
John Perry wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
>
>where in America is your ranch . Im in sw wind blowin no water flatland
>Kansas.
>I love to visit new fields and strips and make trips.
>
>take care fly safe fly low fly slow
>John Perry
>kitfox 2 N718PD
>
>-------Original Message-------
>
>From: jareds
>Date: 08/30/05 20:50:14
>To: ax
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landings
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
>
>Marco,
>
>Sadly my model 4 is finally cured of major issues to where i've had a
>chance to just work on a few landings.
>I have a pretty wild strip on my ranch with the entire field basically
>on a hill.
>Seems like a steep incline but have landed on paved strips much steeper.
>Last week i set out to grease just one landing before calling it a day.
>Carrying some power or adding it at the end seems to help but with a
>short strip it tends to extend things more than i'd like. I stall at 42
>so 55 is the minimum that i'll do short final. I can't master a wheel
>landing to save my life but after several attempts i think i've finally
>figured out a routine for full stall. By carrying that little bit of
>power my tailwheel sits down just like michael said. then the mains
>come down gently as long as i've carried a little power or as long as i
>don't flare way up in the air. Very tricky on the alfalfa field strip
>but on a paved runway i'ts kept on working.
>An airline pilot checking me out in a 200mph arrow several years ago
>said he carries a little power in all his planes just like they taught
>him when flying the 747 so I guess i'm going to prove his theory correct
>over the next few weeks.
>
>Marco Menezes wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>>
>>Now that the sheer euphoria of flight has lessened somewhat, I'm starting
>>
>>
>to pay attention to all those little boxes on my testflight protocols. In
>determining slow flight handling characteristics and stall speed, I've
>observed that my Model 2 doesn't really stall at all. It "mushes."
>
>
>>I've also learned that this characteristic makes "full stall" landings
>>
>>
>problematic. The airplane doesn't really flare to a stall, it mushes it's
>way onto the ground. On a dead-stick landings, at least for me, this has
>resulted in some rather hard bounces. Applying power just before touchdown
>(at about 35 mph indicated) only seems to make it want to fly again.
>
>
>>Is this characteristic of a Model 2's performance or do I have an elevator
>>
>>
>rigging problem? Is there a particular landing technique I need to practice
>and learn?
>
>
>>Marco Menezes
>>Model 2 582 N99KX
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
re full stall full flap and other landings, we had a lot of longitudinal
stability problems landing a KF V with a full forward cg with a subaru 2.2
liter until I put 28 lbs of lead on the tailwheel moving the cg to the center of
the envelope. wheel and three point landings are simple now. We were unable to
get the stick back enough for three point full stall landings and would
bounce badly. even once we had the three points on the ground it could get real
hairy keeping it somewhere on the runway. Current 2000 hr taildragger owners
had the same problem with it. Hated to waste all that payload capability but
had moved both batteries and every thing else we could to their most aft
position. the batteries are at I believe the 92 inch point in the back end.
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