Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:54 AM - [off-topic] Evolution WAS: landings (Michel Verheughe)
2. 02:52 AM - CoG (was) landings (John Anderson)
3. 03:31 AM - SV: CoG (Michel Verheughe)
4. 07:12 AM - Airplane Crash??? Off Topic (Don Smythe)
5. 07:41 AM - E19 Gruver TX. BIG BOYS TOYS FLYIN (John Perry)
6. 08:01 AM - Re: landings (Marco Menezes)
7. 09:41 AM - Re: Airplane Crash??? Off Topic (Jose M. Toro)
8. 09:59 AM - Re: Airplane Crash??? Off Topic (Hank)
9. 10:16 AM - Re: landings (Jose M. Toro)
10. 10:20 AM - Re: landings (jareds)
11. 11:36 AM - Re: A new approach to Folding wings with Fuel in the Tanks. (David Savener)
12. 12:52 PM - Re: landings (Michel Verheughe)
13. 01:30 PM - Speedster for sale (John Furey)
14. 01:52 PM - Re: A new approach to Folding wings with Fuel in the Tanks. (Fox5flyer)
15. 03:43 PM - Re: A new approach to Folding wings with Fuel in the Tanks. (David Savener)
16. 04:21 PM - Re: SV: CoG (John Anderson)
17. 05:27 PM - Re: landings (James Shumaker)
18. 05:27 PM - Exhaust Ball Sealant (Guy Buchanan)
19. 08:41 PM - Re: Airplane Crash??? Off Topic (Rex Hefferan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | [off-topic] Evolution WAS: landings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Ben Baltrusaitis [ben@gmpexpress.net]
> Michel, I thought we were close to the same age, but you must be much, much
> older...
He, he! It was only a form of speech, Ben!
Here is a thought: Honk and Konk are two stone-age men. Honk likes to make love
and Konk likes to land his plane. Who's genes do you think you have inherited?
Understanding that is understanding the fundament of evolutionary psychology.
When I was 15, as horny as a Latin rabbit in heat, I couldn't understand why girls
were trying to be so sexy yet didn't wanted to "do it." I wish now evolutionary
psychology was taught at school. But then ... evolutionism is still a dirty
blasphemic word for some of us.
Cheers,
Michel
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
I'm just in the process of calulating my C of G at the moment. It's just
f/ward of the (for) limit so plan moving the batteries back a bit. What is
the ideal emty datum one should look for?
--------MS---------
From: AMuller589@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landings
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
re full stall full flap and other landings, we had a lot of longitudinal
stability problems landing a KF V with a full forward cg with a subaru 2.2
liter until I put 28 lbs of lead on the tailwheel moving the cg to the
center of
the envelope. wheel and three point landings are simple now. We were unable
to
get the stick back enough for three point full stall landings and would
bounce badly. even once we had the three points on the ground it could get
real
hairy keeping it somewhere on the runway. Current 2000 hr taildragger
owners
had the same problem with it. Hated to waste all that payload capability
but
had moved both batteries and every thing else we could to their most aft
position. the batteries are at I believe the 92 inch point in the back
end.
Need a new job? Check out XtraMSN Careers http://xtramsn.co.nz/careers
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: John Anderson [janderson412@hotmail.com]
> What is the ideal emty datum one should look for?
Difficult to say. On my model 3 with two wing tanks and a header tank aft of the
seats, the fully loaded plane has a CoG somewhat aft of the empty one.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 4
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| Subject: | Airplane Crash??? Off Topic |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Last night about 8:45 PM (I had just gone to bed early), my two kids and their
two friends were in the swimming pool when a light aircraft flew about 50' over
my house heading due east. The engine was making a definite bad rumbling sound.
About 5 seconds later the plane make a hard right turn and disappeared at
the tree line about 1000' away. As soon as it disappeared, the kids all heard
a large swishhhhhhhhhhh sound like the plane was taking out tree tops. Now,
the situation turns strange....They ran into the house to get my Wife plus my
visiting Mother/Father in-law and they all went back outside. At the proposed
crash site they all observed about a half dozen red lights in the air just
at the tree line. They lasted for about a minute (like flares) and then just
went out. They called 911 (without ever waking me up) and the search was on.
About 11:00, they finally let me know. From 3:00 AM this morning, the Coast
Guard Helicopter was searching the whole area with large flood lights but they
were searching about 1/2 mile north of the proposed crash site. I call the Coast
Guard on the phone and helped direct them into the correct area. Still nothing
found. They called off the search this morning. There are no known reports
of a missing aircraft and the whole search was based on our 911 call. When
the aircraft went over the house my Son noted the "red" wing tip light plus,
the whole back yard was lit up brightly (assume landing light was on). He
clearly saw the wings and said the plane was a small to medium size (not an airliner)
The Rich Man and I will search the area this afternoon in his R-22. This has
been a very very strange incident???????
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
Message 5
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| Subject: | E19 Gruver TX. BIG BOYS TOYS FLYIN |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
SEPTEMBER 10TH in Gruver Texas (E19) . Big Boys Toys Flyin and hotrods
motorcycles and tractor pull all at the airport . Good food and fun all day
Main focus on aircraft is experimentals and ultralights . With the usual
mix of other aircraft showing up lol .
Unicom is 122.9 altitude is 3205, closest AWOS is Perryton 118.175
Come join the fun
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
620-492-5115 cell best way to get me
620-493-3124 Hm after dark cuzz im flyin
Take care fly safe fly low fly slow
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Thanks Michel and others who responded. I installed gap seals before the first
flight. I will try carrying some power into landings to slow down the sink rate.
Do flaps help in this regard? My flaps are pretty ineffective right now as
they tend to neutralize themselves immediately after they've been set. I need
to fabricate and install a bracket of some kind with detents at 10 and 20 degrees.
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
Marco Menezes wrote:
> I've observed that my Model 2 doesn't really stall at all. It "mushes."
Marco, it looks like your model 2 behaves much like my model 3! :-)
If I fly, pull the throttle to idle, let the plane slow down and pull the
stick, I end up not being able to get under stall speed as the plane mushes
down at about 400 fpm. What is nice, though, is that you still have full bank
control as the flaperons won't stall. One wing (usually the left one on my
plane) will dip but you can easily regain control and level attitude.
When landing, it is, of course, hard to full stall the plane. I think your
model 2 has even less elevator surface than my model 3. What helps, though, is
to gap-seal the elevator. Just any kind of tape will do, as a test. It was only
after gap sealing my Kitfox that I managed to do a true three-points landing.
Try it and try to touch with the tailwheel first. That will slightly push your
nose down and with a lesser angle of attack, you won't bounce like a ball. Mind
you, landing on two wheels, the tail a bit up is no problem at all. But it took
me a long time to place the plane at the right position so that the landing
doesn't bounce. It's just a matter of time and training. I just can't explain
how I land, it's a very personal relation between the plane and me. Many of my
landings are so-and-so. But when it goes just smooth and perfect ... it's
better than sex! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Airplane Crash??? Off Topic |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
UFOs???
--- Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe"
> <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
> Last night about 8:45 PM (I had just gone to bed
> early), my two kids and their two friends were in
> the swimming pool when a light aircraft flew about
> 50' over my house heading due east. The engine was
> making a definite bad rumbling sound. About 5
> seconds later the plane make a hard right turn and
> disappeared at the tree line about 1000' away. As
> soon as it disappeared, the kids all heard a large
> swishhhhhhhhhhh sound like the plane was taking out
> tree tops. Now, the situation turns strange....They
> ran into the house to get my Wife plus my visiting
> Mother/Father in-law and they all went back outside.
> At the proposed crash site they all observed about
> a half dozen red lights in the air just at the tree
> line. They lasted for about a minute (like flares)
> and then just went out. They called 911 (without
> ever waking me up) and the search was on. About
> 11:00, they finally let me know. From 3:00 AM this
> morning, the Coast Guard Helicopter was searching
> the whole area with l!
> arge flood lights but they were searching about 1/2
> mile north of the proposed crash site. I call the
> Coast Guard on the phone and helped direct them into
> the correct area. Still nothing found. They called
> off the search this morning. There are no known
> reports of a missing aircraft and the whole search
> was based on our 911 call. When the aircraft went
> over the house my Son noted the "red" wing tip light
> plus, the whole back yard was lit up brightly
> (assume landing light was on). He clearly saw the
> wings and said the plane was a small to medium size
> (not an airliner)
> The Rich Man and I will search the area this
> afternoon in his R-22. This has been a very very
> strange incident???????
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Airplane Crash??? Off Topic |
Received-SPF: none (smtp-relay.tamu.edu: domain of hank@hankseidel.com does not
designate permitted sender hosts)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
On Aug 31, 2005, at 11:40 AM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> UFOs???
If that is the case, perhaps the "engine" was making a perfectly
normal sound . . .
>
> --- Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe"
>> <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>
>> Last night about 8:45 PM (I had just gone to bed
>> early), my two kids and their two friends were in
>> the swimming pool when a light aircraft flew about
>> 50' over my house heading due east. The engine was
>> making a definite bad rumbling sound. About 5
>> seconds later the plane make a hard right turn and
>> disappeared at the tree line about 1000' away. As
>> soon as it disappeared, the kids all heard a large
>> swishhhhhhhhhhh sound like the plane was taking out
>> tree tops. Now, the situation turns strange....They
>> ran into the house to get my Wife plus my visiting
>> Mother/Father in-law and they all went back outside.
>> At the proposed crash site they all observed about
>> a half dozen red lights in the air just at the tree
>> line. They lasted for about a minute (like flares)
>> and then just went out. They called 911 (without
>> ever waking me up) and the search was on. About
>> 11:00, they finally let me know. From 3:00 AM this
>> morning, the Coast Guard Helicopter was searching
>> the whole area with l!
>> arge flood lights but they were searching about 1/2
>> mile north of the proposed crash site. I call the
>> Coast Guard on the phone and helped direct them into
>> the correct area. Still nothing found. They called
>> off the search this morning. There are no known
>> reports of a missing aircraft and the whole search
>> was based on our 911 call. When the aircraft went
>> over the house my Son noted the "red" wing tip light
>> plus, the whole back yard was lit up brightly
>> (assume landing light was on). He clearly saw the
>> wings and said the plane was a small to medium size
>> (not an airliner)
>> The Rich Man and I will search the area this
>> afternoon in his R-22. This has been a very very
>> strange incident???????
>>
>> Don Smythe
>> Classic IV W/ 582
>>
>>
>>
>> browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
> "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Marco:
What really matters is to keep adequate speed rather
than power during final approach. I always do the
final approach idle. May need some power for very
strong wind. I can't tell you what is the right
speed, but can tell that you fill find it with
practice.
Jose
--- Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
> <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Michel and others who responded. I installed
> gap seals before the first flight. I will try
> carrying some power into landings to slow down the
> sink rate. Do flaps help in this regard? My flaps
> are pretty ineffective right now as they tend to
> neutralize themselves immediately after they've been
> set. I need to fabricate and install a bracket of
> some kind with detents at 10 and 20 degrees.
>
>
> Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
>
> Marco Menezes wrote:
> > I've observed that my Model 2 doesn't really stall
> at all. It "mushes."
>
> Marco, it looks like your model 2 behaves much like
> my model 3! :-)
> If I fly, pull the throttle to idle, let the plane
> slow down and pull the
> stick, I end up not being able to get under stall
> speed as the plane mushes
> down at about 400 fpm. What is nice, though, is that
> you still have full bank
> control as the flaperons won't stall. One wing
> (usually the left one on my
> plane) will dip but you can easily regain control
> and level attitude.
> When landing, it is, of course, hard to full stall
> the plane. I think your
> model 2 has even less elevator surface than my model
> 3. What helps, though, is
> to gap-seal the elevator. Just any kind of tape will
> do, as a test. It was only
> after gap sealing my Kitfox that I managed to do a
> true three-points landing.
> Try it and try to touch with the tailwheel first.
> That will slightly push your
> nose down and with a lesser angle of attack, you
> won't bounce like a ball. Mind
> you, landing on two wheels, the tail a bit up is no
> problem at all. But it took
> me a long time to place the plane at the right
> position so that the landing
> doesn't bounce. It's just a matter of time and
> training. I just can't explain
> how I land, it's a very personal relation between
> the plane and me. Many of my
> landings are so-and-so. But when it goes just smooth
> and perfect ... it's
> better than sex! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
> Marco Menezes
> Model 2 582 N99KX
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Marco.
For my flaps i riveted a narrow piece of sheet metal about the size of
litmus paper along side handle. I first bent it in 3 spots so that
there were 3 distinct flap settings 10/20/30 degrees estimated.
I also just drilled a quick hole and put a bolt in place in the first
notch so that I would at least be able to cheat with flaps on landings
and get a steeper descent at 10 degrees when coming over an obstical.
Works like a charm!
Marco Menezes wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
>Thanks Michel and others who responded. I installed gap seals before the first
flight. I will try carrying some power into landings to slow down the sink rate.
Do flaps help in this regard? My flaps are pretty ineffective right now as
they tend to neutralize themselves immediately after they've been set. I need
to fabricate and install a bracket of some kind with detents at 10 and 20 degrees.
>
>
>Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
>
>Marco Menezes wrote:
>
>
>>I've observed that my Model 2 doesn't really stall at all. It "mushes."
>>
>>
>
>Marco, it looks like your model 2 behaves much like my model 3! :-)
>If I fly, pull the throttle to idle, let the plane slow down and pull the
>stick, I end up not being able to get under stall speed as the plane mushes
>down at about 400 fpm. What is nice, though, is that you still have full bank
>control as the flaperons won't stall. One wing (usually the left one on my
>plane) will dip but you can easily regain control and level attitude.
>When landing, it is, of course, hard to full stall the plane. I think your
>model 2 has even less elevator surface than my model 3. What helps, though, is
>to gap-seal the elevator. Just any kind of tape will do, as a test. It was only
>after gap sealing my Kitfox that I managed to do a true three-points landing.
>Try it and try to touch with the tailwheel first. That will slightly push your
>nose down and with a lesser angle of attack, you won't bounce like a ball. Mind
>you, landing on two wheels, the tail a bit up is no problem at all. But it took
>me a long time to place the plane at the right position so that the landing
>doesn't bounce. It's just a matter of time and training. I just can't explain
>how I land, it's a very personal relation between the plane and me. Many of my
>landings are so-and-so. But when it goes just smooth and perfect ... it's
>better than sex! :-)
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
>Marco Menezes
>Model 2 582 N99KX
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: A new approach to Folding wings with Fuel in the Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
I took digital pictures this morning of a new idea for handling folded wings with
fuel in them.
To work it, you hook a cable to the tailwheel, then winch it up a ramp/channel,
till the tailwheel is high enough that the wings are level. This ramp/channel
is about six feet long. At the top is a hand crank boat winch for pulling the
tailwheel up the ramp. The ramp has a crossbar that goes across/under the
ramp near the front. The crossbar is about two feet long and has castering wheels
under it. The back has an axle about three feet lon with four or five inch
pneumatic tires on it. Behind the boat winch at the top of the ramp, they
fastened a T handle that extends about two feet behind so the whole thing can
be moved/ repositioned in the hanger.
It was originally made so the Aeronca Champ owner could get the wings level so
he had walk room under the wings. It was in a large hanger so he added the wheels
for mobility.
It would work great for a Kitfox with wings folded/or not!!
Dave Savener
I just sent them to matronics.com so they should show up in a day or three, or
I can email them to anyone who might be too hot to wait for them to show up on
matronics.
----- Original Message -----
From: John King<mailto:kingjohne@adelphia.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding with Full Tanks.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net<mailto:kingjohne@adelphia.net>>
Guy,
My concern would be excessive forces placed on the folded wings when
there is any significant amount of fuel in the wing tanks. That is a
lot of unsupported weight, especially if the trailer is on the road.
SkyStar does provide detachable wing braces to support the wings at the
leading edge when the wings are folded, but they were not intended to be
used when fuel in still in the tanks. I would opt for a method to
quickly drain the tanks like Don Smythe and others have done.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Guy Buchanan wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com<mailto:bnn@nethere.com>>
>
> I have to fold the wings to store the plane in the box trailer. I
>don't want to drain and fill each time I fly. Here's my current thoughts. I
>buy a set of caps, somewhere, that have no vent; or I buy a duplicate
>vented set and weld / crimp the vent shut. I then install a quick drain or
>ball valve or some such vent in the top inboard face of the tank, near or
>as part of the fuel level upper pick-up. Then, to fly, I close the inboard
>vents, spread the wings, install the vented caps, go fly. Get back: install
>the non-vented caps, fold wings, open inboard vents, store.
> What do you think. Do you think I can get caps that will handle
>being wet permanently without leaking? Do you think I can adequately
>install the inboard vent? Do you think it will work? Do you think I'll
>remember to open the vents or will I blow the tanks apart one day? :'(
>
>Guy Buchanan
>K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
jareds wrote:
> I first bent it in 3 spots so that there were 3 distinct flap settings
> 10/20/30 degrees estimated.
Up to 30 degrees, Jared? Good Lord! Mine was restricted by the constructor (not
me) to 10 degrees. I thought that after say, 22 degrees, the aileron effect was
inverted.
Anyway, Marco, with only 10 degrees on my model 3 type of flaperon (different
from model 4 and upward, I believe) it increases lift (I can feel it when, in
flight, I remove it suddenly) but hardly adds any drag (speed hardly changes).
However it pulls the nose down, which is not exactly what I want when I land.
Hence I never use it when landing. But I do, at level flight and in calm air,
to trim the pitch.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 13
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| Subject: | Speedster for sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
I have a Speedster with 400 hoursTT. 912, Grove gear, Molded WS, KY96, KT76,
Been setting since I finished my RV6A in 2000. I need the hangar space for a
new project and it needs flown. Make me an offer.
John
330-324-2041
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: A new approach to Folding wings with Fuel in the Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Dave, if you send the pics to WWW.Sportflight.com then click on "uploads"
they'll be available immediately to all of us. That is the official kitfox
photo archive. Just let us know when you have them uploaded.
Deke Morisse
Kitfox List Administrator
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: A new approach to Folding wings with Fuel in the
Tanks.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
>
> I took digital pictures this morning of a new idea for handling folded
wings with fuel in them.
>
> To work it, you hook a cable to the tailwheel, then winch it up a
ramp/channel, till the tailwheel is high enough that the wings are level.
This ramp/channel is about six feet long. At the top is a hand crank boat
winch for pulling the tailwheel up the ramp. The ramp has a crossbar that
goes across/under the ramp near the front. The crossbar is about two feet
long and has castering wheels under it. The back has an axle about three
feet lon with four or five inch pneumatic tires on it. Behind the boat
winch at the top of the ramp, they fastened a T handle that extends about
two feet behind so the whole thing can be moved/ repositioned in the hanger.
>
> It was originally made so the Aeronca Champ owner could get the wings
level so he had walk room under the wings. It was in a large hanger so he
added the wheels for mobility.
>
> It would work great for a Kitfox with wings folded/or not!!
>
> Dave Savener
>
> I just sent them to matronics.com so they should show up in a day or
three, or I can email them to anyone who might be too hot to wait for them
to show up on matronics.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John King<mailto:kingjohne@adelphia.net>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding with Full Tanks.
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King
<kingjohne@adelphia.net<mailto:kingjohne@adelphia.net>>
>
> Guy,
>
> My concern would be excessive forces placed on the folded wings when
> there is any significant amount of fuel in the wing tanks. That is a
> lot of unsupported weight, especially if the trailer is on the road.
> SkyStar does provide detachable wing braces to support the wings at the
> leading edge when the wings are folded, but they were not intended to be
> used when fuel in still in the tanks. I would opt for a method to
> quickly drain the tanks like Don Smythe and others have done.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
> Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan
<bnn@nethere.com<mailto:bnn@nethere.com>>
> >
> > I have to fold the wings to store the plane in the box
trailer. I
> >don't want to drain and fill each time I fly. Here's my current
thoughts. I
> >buy a set of caps, somewhere, that have no vent; or I buy a duplicate
> >vented set and weld / crimp the vent shut. I then install a quick drain
or
> >ball valve or some such vent in the top inboard face of the tank, near
or
> >as part of the fuel level upper pick-up. Then, to fly, I close the
inboard
> >vents, spread the wings, install the vented caps, go fly. Get back:
install
> >the non-vented caps, fold wings, open inboard vents, store.
> > What do you think. Do you think I can get caps that will
handle
> >being wet permanently without leaking? Do you think I can adequately
> >install the inboard vent? Do you think it will work? Do you think I'll
> >remember to open the vents or will I blow the tanks apart one day? :'(
> >
> >Guy Buchanan
> >K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: A new approach to Folding wings with Fuel in the Tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
I uploaded the Pics to Sportflight .com under "Other/Misc", "Hanger Dolly"
Thanks for the help.
Dave Savener
----- Original Message -----
From: Fox5flyer<mailto:morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: A new approach to Folding wings with Fuel in the Tanks.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us<mailto:morid@northland.lib.mi.us>>
Dave, if you send the pics to WWW.Sportflight.com<http://www.sportflight.com/> then click on "uploads"
they'll be available immediately to all of us. That is the official kitfox
photo archive. Just let us know when you have them uploaded.
Deke Morisse
Kitfox List Administrator
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com<mailto:david_savener@msn.com>>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: A new approach to Folding wings with Fuel in the
Tanks.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com<mailto:david_savener@msn.com>>
>
> I took digital pictures this morning of a new idea for handling folded
wings with fuel in them.
>
> To work it, you hook a cable to the tailwheel, then winch it up a
ramp/channel, till the tailwheel is high enough that the wings are level.
This ramp/channel is about six feet long. At the top is a hand crank boat
winch for pulling the tailwheel up the ramp. The ramp has a crossbar that
goes across/under the ramp near the front. The crossbar is about two feet
long and has castering wheels under it. The back has an axle about three
feet lon with four or five inch pneumatic tires on it. Behind the boat
winch at the top of the ramp, they fastened a T handle that extends about
two feet behind so the whole thing can be moved/ repositioned in the hanger.
>
> It was originally made so the Aeronca Champ owner could get the wings
level so he had walk room under the wings. It was in a large hanger so he
added the wheels for mobility.
>
> It would work great for a Kitfox with wings folded/or not!!
>
> Dave Savener
>
> I just sent them to matronics.com so they should show up in a day or
three, or I can email them to anyone who might be too hot to wait for them
to show up on matronics.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John King<mailto:kingjohne@adelphia.net<mailto:kingjohne@adelphia.net>>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding with Full Tanks.
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King
<kingjohne@adelphia.net<mailto:kingjohne@adelphia.net<mailto:kingjohne@adelphia.net<mailto:kingjohne@adelphia.net>>>
>
> Guy,
>
> My concern would be excessive forces placed on the folded wings when
> there is any significant amount of fuel in the wing tanks. That is a
> lot of unsupported weight, especially if the trailer is on the road.
> SkyStar does provide detachable wing braces to support the wings at the
> leading edge when the wings are folded, but they were not intended to be
> used when fuel in still in the tanks. I would opt for a method to
> quickly drain the tanks like Don Smythe and others have done.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
> Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan
<bnn@nethere.com<mailto:bnn@nethere.com<mailto:bnn@nethere.com<mailto:bnn@nethere.com>>>
> >
> > I have to fold the wings to store the plane in the box
trailer. I
> >don't want to drain and fill each time I fly. Here's my current
thoughts. I
> >buy a set of caps, somewhere, that have no vent; or I buy a duplicate
> >vented set and weld / crimp the vent shut. I then install a quick drain
or
> >ball valve or some such vent in the top inboard face of the tank, near
or
> >as part of the fuel level upper pick-up. Then, to fly, I close the
inboard
> >vents, spread the wings, install the vented caps, go fly. Get back:
install
> >the non-vented caps, fold wings, open inboard vents, store.
> > What do you think. Do you think I can get caps that will
handle
> >being wet permanently without leaking? Do you think I can adequately
> >install the inboard vent? Do you think it will work? Do you think I'll
> >remember to open the vents or will I blow the tanks apart one day? :'(
> >
> >Guy Buchanan
> >K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Michel, yes I wwas aiming to keep it close to the f/ward limit so as
to utalize all the baggage weight capacity.
John A. Series 5 TG
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: SV: CoG
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>From: John Anderson [janderson412@hotmail.com]
>What is the ideal emty datum one should look for?
Difficult to say. On my model 3 with two wing tanks and a header tank aft of
the seats, the fully loaded plane has a CoG somewhat aft of the empty one.
Cheers,
Michel
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Michel,
I have found that on my model III the flaps are a detriment for landing unless
they are deployed to there limit. That limit is defined by the point at which
the flaperons are inhibited from full throw. To find that spot, move the stick
to the left or right limit then pull the flap handle until you feel the stick
start to move to center. Do the same to the other side. The limit is the
point where the stick just starts to move to center.
When landing with the flaps at the limit the landings are shorter, slower and with
very little float. With the flaps deployed to a lesser degree, the plane
seems to float more.
Jim Shumaker
Message 18
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| Subject: | Exhaust Ball Sealant |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
All,
I looked for it in the archives, but couldn't find it. What
sealant / anti-seize do I use on the exhaust ball joints?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Airplane Crash??? Off Topic |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex Hefferan <kitfox-m2@earthlink.net>
I once had a somewhat similar experience when I was a kid and
unfamiliar with aviation. A small plane flew over very low towards a
lake and then the engine quit. I listened for a crash into the lake and
never heard it. I now figure it was a night landing of a float plane.
This doesn't explain your story.
Rex
Colorado (formerly Florida when the above occurred)
Do not archive
Don Smythe wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
>Last night about 8:45 PM (I had just gone to bed early), my two kids and their
two friends were in the swimming pool when a light aircraft flew about 50' over
my house heading due east. The engine was making a definite bad rumbling sound.
About 5 seconds later the plane make a hard right turn and disappeared
at the tree line about 1000' away. As soon as it disappeared, the kids all heard
a large swishhhhhhhhhhh sound like the plane was taking out tree tops. Now,
the situation turns strange....They ran into the house to get my Wife plus
my visiting Mother/Father in-law and they all went back outside. At the proposed
crash site they all observed about a half dozen red lights in the air just
at the tree line. They lasted for about a minute (like flares) and then just
went out. They called 911 (without ever waking me up) and the search was on.
About 11:00, they finally let me know. From 3:00 AM this morning, the Coast
Guard Helicopter was searching the whole area with l!
> arge flood lights but they were searching about 1/2 mile north of the proposed
crash site. I call the Coast Guard on the phone and helped direct them into
the correct area. Still nothing found. They called off the search this morning.
There are no known reports of a missing aircraft and the whole search was
based on our 911 call. When the aircraft went over the house my Son noted the
"red" wing tip light plus, the whole back yard was lit up brightly (assume
landing light was on). He clearly saw the wings and said the plane was a small
to medium size (not an airliner)
> The Rich Man and I will search the area this afternoon in his R-22. This
has been a very very strange incident???????
>
>Don Smythe
>Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
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