Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:23 AM - SV: landings (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:23 AM - P factor (Mike Chaney)
3. 05:30 AM - SV: P factor (Michel Verheughe)
4. 06:23 AM - Re: Exhaust Ball Sealant (jareds)
5. 06:27 AM - Re: P factor (flier)
6. 07:13 AM - Re: landings (Marco Menezes)
7. 08:33 AM - Re: P factor (Bruce Harrington)
8. 08:52 AM - Re: Exhaust Ball Sealant (John Stoner)
9. 10:39 AM - Speedster for Sale (John Furey)
10. 11:34 AM - Speedster Picture (John Furey)
11. 12:21 PM - Re: SV: CoG (AMuller589@aol.com)
12. 12:48 PM - Re: Speedster for sale (Floyd Smith)
13. 01:22 PM - Re: Speedster Picture (Richard Hutson)
14. 01:42 PM - Re: Speedster for sale (John Furey)
15. 02:09 PM - Re: landings (Michel Verheughe)
16. 02:14 PM - Re: P factor (Michel Verheughe)
17. 02:17 PM - Upholstery (Jeffrey Puls)
18. 02:37 PM - Re: SV: CoG (Lowell Fitt)
19. 02:55 PM - Re: Upholstery (Don Smythe)
20. 05:15 PM - Re: Speedster Picture (John Furey)
21. 05:19 PM - Re: P factor (John Anderson)
22. 06:07 PM - Re: P factor (Guy Buchanan)
23. 06:15 PM - Re: Exhaust Ball Sealant (Rick)
24. 06:15 PM - tow in on clasic VI (kirk hull)
25. 06:16 PM - Re: Upholstery (Rick)
26. 10:04 PM - Re: Re: Exhaust Ball Sealant (Guy Buchanan)
27. 11:11 PM - Re: SV: landings (James Shumaker)
28. 11:22 PM - Re: P factor (Bruce Harrington)
29. 11:22 PM - Re: P factor (Bruce Harrington)
30. 11:50 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: James Shumaker [jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net]
> I have found that on my model III the flaps are a detriment for landing unless
they
> are deployed to there limit.
Thanks Jim. I make a good note of that and I will experiment a bit. That's the
nice thing with Kitfox flying, there is always something new to try, something
to learn!
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
Since I have installed my Jabiru 2200 on my model IV I have had to use light
to strong right rudder pressure. I spoke to the Kitfox rep at Oshkosh and
he indicated that I could put a small tab 3x6 inch on my rudder. He said
the tab should be on the opposite side of my applied rudder pressure. This
doesn't sound quite right. I looked at a number of Kitfoxes with this tab
and they were all on the left side of the rudder but they also had Rotax
engines where the prop turnes the opposite direction of the Jabiru.
Mike Chaney
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Hello Mike,
> From: Mike Chaney [mdps_mc@swoca.net]
> Since I have installed my Jabiru 2200 on my model IV I have had to use light
> to strong right rudder pressure.
It is the same with my Model 3 and Jabiru.
> he indicated that I could put a small tab 3x6 inch on my rudder.
Personaly I wouldn't do that. When I climb, or for any reason set much throttle,
the effect is strongly felt and the right pedal needed. But if I say, make a
right hand turn in a descent with little throttle, the right pedal pressure is
not needed.
After a while, I developped a second sense that, if the RPM is hight, I need to
correct with my right foot. If I was to put a tab, then I would be afraid that,
in a right hand turn with idle throttle, I'll need to push the left pedal to
compensate. That would be, in my modest opinion, something not logic since it
would be like sideslipping cross control.
Please note that I have very little experience and that is only my very, very humble
opinion. I have never used a tab on my rudder and I don't know how it would
work.
> the tab should be on the opposite side of my applied rudder pressure. This
> doesn't sound quite right.
Er, the prop tend to push the nose to the left, you correct it with the right pedal,
which moves the rudder to the right and ... the tab (trim) should be deflected
to the left ... isn't it?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Ball Sealant |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Guy,
After the engine rebuild they recomended i used anti sieze as the
vibration will be cut down using it.
I also wrapped the connections with harley header wrap with hitemp rtv
inside to keep fumes from escaping out.
Guy Buchanan wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
>All,
> I looked for it in the archives, but couldn't find it. What
>sealant / anti-seize do I use on the exhaust ball joints?
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Guy Buchanan
>K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
The tab has to be opposite the way you want the
rudder to deflect.
--- Original Message ---
From: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@swoca.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: P factor
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney
<mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
>
>Since I have installed my Jabiru 2200 on my model IV
I have had to use light
>to strong right rudder pressure. I spoke to the
Kitfox rep at Oshkosh and
>he indicated that I could put a small tab 3x6 inch
on my rudder. He said
>the tab should be on the opposite side of my applied
rudder pressure. This
>doesn't sound quite right. I looked at a number of
Kitfoxes with this tab
>and they were all on the left side of the rudder but
they also had Rotax
>engines where the prop turnes the opposite direction
of the Jabiru.
>
>Mike Chaney
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
======================================================
======
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
So between Jose, Jim and Michel's observations, I conclude that if I have enough
upward elevator control left at optimal landing speed to counter the nose-down
pitch caused by, say . . . 10 degrees of flaps, i'll get some float rather
than mush and bounce. At this point, I wouldn't mind that at all.
Thanks guys.
James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker
Hi Michel,
I have found that on my model III the flaps are a detriment for landing unless
they are deployed to there limit. That limit is defined by the point at which
the flaperons are inhibited from full throw. To find that spot, move the stick
to the left or right limit then pull the flap handle until you feel the stick
start to move to center. Do the same to the other side. The limit is the point
where the stick just starts to move to center.
When landing with the flaps at the limit the landings are shorter, slower and with
very little float. With the flaps deployed to a lesser degree, the plane seems
to float more.
Jim Shumaker
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <sonex321@msn.com>
Hi Mike,
You can put the tab on either side, as long as it's bent to force the rudder
in the direction you want. In your case, bend it to the left when looking
forward. This will push the rudder to the right. I prefer bigger trim
tabs, where about 2" past the rudder and about 10" long. This takes only a
slight bend.
On my old 582ed IV-1200, I needed a rudder trim tab when I noticed my left
leg having problems holding left rudder during flight.
My Sonex with Jab 3300 requires a rudder trim tab for cruise flight, else I
have to hold some right rudder. On takeoff, it's hold almost full right
rudder!
Cheers,
bh
> Since I have installed my Jabiru 2200 on my model IV I have had to use
> light
> to strong right rudder pressure. I spoke to the Kitfox rep at Oshkosh and
> he indicated that I could put a small tab 3x6 inch on my rudder. He said
> the tab should be on the opposite side of my applied rudder pressure.
> This
> doesn't sound quite right. I looked at a number of Kitfoxes with this tab
> and they were all on the left side of the rudder but they also had Rotax
> engines where the prop turnes the opposite direction of the Jabiru.
>
> Mike Chaney
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Ball Sealant |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Stoner" <john@dakotacubaircraft.com>
Guy,
Any high temperature anti-seize compound should work;
Permatex Anti-Seize Lubricant Part # 80078, or
NAPA Anti-Seize Lubricant Part # 765-1674.
There are probably others as well.
Regards,
John Stoner
KF III, 582
Message 9
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| Subject: | Speedster for Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
For those wanting to see what my Speedster looked like before I installed
the Grove gear and parked it, please go to johnfurey@myphotoalbum.com.
Anyone wanting complete details let me know and I will send them.
Thanks
John
Message 10
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| Subject: | Speedster Picture |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
Sorry but I posted the wrong URL. Please go to johnfurey.myphotoalbum.com
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
on our kitfox V we find a good cg location to be aft of 11 inches. this
gives plenty of aft stick for three point landings easy wheel landings an just
about eliminates trim drag for speed and fuel economy.Having an EIS with fuel
flow helps determine the best cg for economy.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster for sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Floyd Smith <duktapeguy@yahoo.com>
John,
Let me know where and the cost and if possible send me
some pictures. The deal I just had on a plane fell
through an I am ready to buy.
--- John Furey <john@fureychrysler.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Furey"
> <john@fureychrysler.com>
>
> I have a Speedster with 400 hoursTT. 912, Grove
> gear, Molded WS, KY96, KT76,
> Been setting since I finished my RV6A in 2000. I
> need the hangar space for a
> new project and it needs flown. Make me an offer.
>
> John
> 330-324-2041
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster Picture |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
Haven't I seen that RV on vansairforce.net? Both plane look sharp!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
>
> Sorry but I posted the wrong URL. Please go to
> johnfurey.myphotoalbum.com
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Speedster for sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
See picture at johnfurey.myphotoalbum.com Price is $20k PLease let me
know if I can be of help or call me.
John Furey
Malvern, Ohio
330-324-2041
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Marco Menezes wrote:
> So between Jose, Jim and Michel's observations, I conclude that if I have enough
> upward elevator control left at optimal landing speed to counter the nose-down
pitch
> caused by, say . . . 10 degrees of flaps, i'll get some float rather than mush
and
> bounce. At this point, I wouldn't mind that at all.
Well ... I just had to try it. So I went flying, this evening, a few touch and
go with maximum flaps (10 degrees) on landing.
It felt ... awkward. The ailerons were heavy and I needed much backward
pressure on the stick. I can't say that it improved anything on the landing. It
wasn't shorter.
I am not sure what I gain with the flaps on. I much rather adjust my speed and
sink rate on final with small sideslips. That's what I am used to. But then,
again, each pilot has his own way of doing things.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Bruce Harrington wrote:
> On takeoff, it's hold almost full right rudder!
Almost full rudder? Wow! Not on my Kitfox, Bruce! In fact, at level with 2,700
RPM on the Jabiru 2200, I don't need pressure on the pedal. Or if I do it, it
is nearly unconsciously. I wonder then why the Sonex needs more rudder? Of
course, the 3300 develops more power but ... is it because I have high wings
and you have low wings?
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
Received my upholstery today I ordered from Skystar. Does anyone know what the
3 pieces of clothe are for? Two sections are sown together and have a bend in
them. Thanks. Jeff Classic IV; I'm tossing my rocking chair pads.
Jeffrey Puls
pulsair@mindspring.com
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
This is a good point. A forward CG requires up elevator trim for level
flight which increases the load on the wing. Fuel economy is reduced with a
forward CG.
During a short stint as a fueler for United Airlines, I learned that during
the fuel crisis 30 years ago all luggage and freight loading was to the
maximum aft CG for fuel economy.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <AMuller589@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: SV: CoG
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
>
> on our kitfox V we find a good cg location to be aft of 11 inches. this
> gives plenty of aft stick for three point landings easy wheel landings an
> just
> about eliminates trim drag for speed and fuel economy.Having an EIS with
> fuel
> flow helps determine the best cg for economy.
>
>
>
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
<<I'm tossing my rocking chair pads.>>
Jeffrey,
You traitor....Ha
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Upholstery
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
>
> Received my upholstery today I ordered from Skystar. Does anyone know what
> the 3 pieces of clothe are for? Two sections are sown together and have a
> bend in them. Thanks. Jeff Classic IV; I'm tossing my rocking chair pads.
>
>
> Jeffrey Puls
> pulsair@mindspring.com
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Speedster Picture |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
Yes you have, and thank you.
John
Kitfox
RV6A
F1 Rocket in the oven
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
You could consider ajusting for P factor by shimming the engine mount. About
1 deg and 1 1/2 degs to the right. ~j~
From: "Bruce Harrington" <sonex321@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: P factor
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <sonex321@msn.com>
Hi Mike,
You can put the tab on either side, as long as it's bent to force the rudder
in the direction you want. In your case, bend it to the left when looking
forward. This will push the rudder to the right. I prefer bigger trim
tabs, where about 2" past the rudder and about 10" long. This takes only a
slight bend.
On my old 582ed IV-1200, I needed a rudder trim tab when I noticed my left
leg having problems holding left rudder during flight.
My Sonex with Jab 3300 requires a rudder trim tab for cruise flight, else I
have to hold some right rudder. On takeoff, it's hold almost full right
rudder!
Cheers,
bh
>Since I have installed my Jabiru 2200 on my model IV I have had to use
>light
>to strong right rudder pressure. I spoke to the Kitfox rep at Oshkosh and
>he indicated that I could put a small tab 3x6 inch on my rudder. He said
>the tab should be on the opposite side of my applied rudder pressure.
>This
>doesn't sound quite right. I looked at a number of Kitfoxes with this tab
>and they were all on the left side of the rudder but they also had Rotax
>engines where the prop turnes the opposite direction of the Jabiru.
>
>Mike Chaney
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
Message 22
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:21 AM 9/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
>
>Since I have installed my Jabiru 2200 on my model IV I have had to use light
>to strong right rudder pressure. I spoke to the Kitfox rep at Oshkosh and
>he indicated that I could put a small tab 3x6 inch on my rudder. He said
>the tab should be on the opposite side of my applied rudder pressure. This
>doesn't sound quite right.
The rep is correct. The tab is a servo; it moves the rudder opposite it's
deflection. To get right rudder put it on the left and bend it left into
the air stream. Set it for cruise. For all other regimes you get to use
your foot. Or go whole hog and put in an electric rudder trim!
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Exhaust Ball Sealant |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Unless it is a turbo engine the exhaust will seal it with out any further
assistance. If you wrap carbon steel headers they will deteriorate much
faster. IMHO it would be better to have them coated by Swain technologies.
The use of anti sieze is in error when used in a high temp environment like
exhaust. It will act as a sealer not a lubricant.
Rick N656T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jareds
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Ball Sealant
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Guy,
After the engine rebuild they recomended i used anti sieze as the
vibration will be cut down using it.
I also wrapped the connections with harley header wrap with hitemp rtv
inside to keep fumes from escaping out.
Guy Buchanan wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
>All,
> I looked for it in the archives, but couldn't find it. What
>sealant / anti-seize do I use on the exhaust ball joints?
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Guy Buchanan
>K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | tow in on clasic VI |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I was looking at the toe in on the main gear of my classic VI and it appears
to be about 1/2 inch from the front of the break disk to the back with the
greatest distance between the two at the rear. This does not seem right to
me . Has anyone else found this on their for and if so what is the best
method for fixing it?
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Probably for the center back section of the seat. I would recommend the LP
Aero temper foam seats. I love mine and they even have an adjustable lumbar
support. Get the thickness you want as well for seat height adjustment.
Rick N656T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Upholstery
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
<<I'm tossing my rocking chair pads.>>
Jeffrey,
You traitor....Ha
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Upholstery
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
>
> Received my upholstery today I ordered from Skystar. Does anyone know what
> the 3 pieces of clothe are for? Two sections are sown together and have a
> bend in them. Thanks. Jeff Classic IV; I'm tossing my rocking chair pads.
>
>
> Jeffrey Puls
> pulsair@mindspring.com
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Ball Sealant |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Thanks John.
Guy
At 08:52 AM 9/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Stoner" <john@dakotacubaircraft.com>
>
>Guy,
>Any high temperature anti-seize compound should work;
>Permatex Anti-Seize Lubricant Part # 80078, or
>NAPA Anti-Seize Lubricant Part # 765-1674.
>There are probably others as well.
>Regards,
>John Stoner
>KF III, 582
>
>
Guy
Message 27
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Michel
It took me more than a day or two of landing with full flaps to come to the conclusion
that Full flaps will allow shorter landings. First, the stall speed is
lowered by about 3 mph in smooth air. That makes the approach speed 49 mph
rather than 53 (stall speed x 1.3 in smooth air). The drag is slightly higher
so the plane slows down a little quicker and it also allows raising the flaps
just at touch down to drop solidly to the ground. The difference may not be
noticable unless you are landing in short (less than 800 feet) runways.
It took me a lot longer to learn to land short than I thought it would.
Jim Shumaker
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <sonex321@msn.com>
Hi Michel,
On takeoff, with the short couple and wings only 22 foot, and 120 hp, the
Sonex wants to veer to the left quickly. Once up at cruise climb, it
doesn't take much rudder, and at cruise now, none. But I cruise at
2800-3100 rom!
Cheers,
Bruce
> Bruce Harrington wrote:
>> On takeoff, it's hold almost full right rudder!
>
> Almost full rudder? Wow! Not on my Kitfox, Bruce! In fact, at level with
> 2,700
> RPM on the Jabiru 2200, I don't need pressure on the pedal. Or if I do it,
> it
> is nearly unconsciously. I wonder then why the Sonex needs more rudder? Of
> course, the 3300 develops more power but ... is it because I have high
> wings
> and you have low wings?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
Message 29
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <sonex321@msn.com>
I prefer to build to plans, and stick to them.
Cheers,
bh
> You could consider ajusting for P factor by shimming the engine mount.
> About
> 1 deg and 1 1/2 degs to the right. ~j~
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com
Dear Lister,
Please read over the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Kitfox-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kitfox-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
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