Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:15 AM - Re: Kitfox door handles for Kitfox 4 (Michael Gibbs)
2. 12:15 AM - Re: landings FLapperons (Michael Gibbs)
3. 02:41 AM - Re: landings FLapperons (kitfox@gto.net)
4. 05:03 AM - Re: landings FLapperons (Brett Walmsley)
5. 05:45 AM - Re: landings FLapperons (Jerry Liles)
6. 07:24 AM - grove gear ()
7. 08:31 AM - Re: grove gear (Randy Daughenbaugh)
8. 09:53 AM - Re: grove gear (Paul Peerenboom)
9. 11:09 AM - Re: landings FLapperons (kitfox@gto.net)
10. 01:54 PM - [ John T. Soner ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
11. 02:09 PM - [ David Savener ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
12. 03:12 PM - kitfox parts wanted (Eric)
13. 04:04 PM - Re: grove gear (Bob Unternaehrer)
14. 04:26 PM - Re: grove gear (Clifford Begnaud)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox door handles for Kitfox 4 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>Does anyone know where to locate a good door handle that will close
>the bottom of the door on a kitfox 4 door.
I think Murle Williams has just what you are looking for:
<http://murlewilliamsaviation.com>. Click "On-line Catalog" and
scroll down to the door latches.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: landings FLapperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>My Flapperons on the KF IV are 33 degree Full down. I use 15 to 20
>deg for soft field wheel
I've been seeing all kinds of numbers for flaperon deflection. I
thought the factory specs for the Model IV were 22 degrees for full
flaps. Someone correct me.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: landings FLapperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Pretty simple way to check is use a inclinometer on the Flaperons.
Has anyone else does theirs?
Mine are measured and placarded on the control handle.
So I would suggest that some check with an inclinometer and record
your results.
Hope this helps you, Kirby....
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs
<MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> >My Flapperons on the KF IV are 33 degree Full down. I use 15 to 20
> >deg for soft field wheel
>
> I've been seeing all kinds of numbers for flaperon deflection. I
> thought the factory specs for the Model IV were 22 degrees for full
> flaps. Someone correct me.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: landings FLapperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
That's what my book says.
By the way, regarding differential aileron deflection. Any flap deployment
starts to errode the differential effect to a point at full flaps where
there is a ton of differential but unfortunately it's in the wrong
direction. In other words, when flaps are deployed the rudder reqirements
change dramatically. No big deal just something to keep in mind when
transitioning from flaps and ailerons to flaperons. You can show your
friends how to "dutch roll".
Brett
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landings FLapperons
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> >My Flapperons on the KF IV are 33 degree Full down. I use 15 to 20
> >deg for soft field wheel
>
> I've been seeing all kinds of numbers for flaperon deflection. I
> thought the factory specs for the Model IV were 22 degrees for full
> flaps. Someone correct me.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: landings FLapperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Actually it can become a big deal. If the flapperons are deployed too
far and a large control input is used the flapperon on the side with the
down deflection can stall and cause effective control reversal. There
were some accidents in early Kitfoxes because of this. Dean Wilson, the
designer of the Avid Model A, basically the first of the Avid/Kitfox
line, limited deployment to no more than 15 deg with neutral stick. Any
Fox or Avid with the flapperon linkage that does not require
disconnecting to fold the wings is particularly at risk since, as Brett
points out, differential action changes from favoring the up deflected
flapperon to the down deflected flapperon, which further exacerbates the
problem. I'm not certain how this works in the later (Mod IV) Foxes
with the redesigned linkage. I've limited deployment to only 10 deg on
Tootie Mae. Control response remains good and it gives a useful
increase in lift on takeoff and landing. I do think 33 deg down is well
into dangerous territory!
My 2 cents
Jerry Liles
Brett Walmsley wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
>
>That's what my book says.
>By the way, regarding differential aileron deflection. Any flap deployment
>starts to errode the differential effect to a point at full flaps where
>there is a ton of differential but unfortunately it's in the wrong
>direction. In other words, when flaps are deployed the rudder reqirements
>change dramatically. No big deal just something to keep in mind when
>transitioning from flaps and ailerons to flaperons. You can show your
>friends how to "dutch roll".
>Brett
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landings FLapperons
>
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>>
>>
>>
>>>My Flapperons on the KF IV are 33 degree Full down. I use 15 to 20
>>>deg for soft field wheel
>>>
>>>
>>I've been seeing all kinds of numbers for flaperon deflection. I
>>thought the factory specs for the Model IV were 22 degrees for full
>>flaps. Someone correct me.
>>
>>Mike G.
>>N728KF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>Scanned by Bayou Internet for all known viruses.
>http://www.bayou.com
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <jgh54@netscape.com>
is there any advantage to grove gear over standard KF 5 gear
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I recently dropped a landing in from about 20 feet. I had the impression
that I saw the wheels come up to about even with my ears. !!! The Grove
gear just soaked it up and after a very careful inspection, I found no
damage to the plane. Unbelievable!
I don't think that the bungee gear would have survived that.
I haven't much experience with bungee gear, but I think the extra width of
the Grove gear make you less prone to ground loops. I feel very stable with
the Grove gear.
Randy - Series 5/7 912S
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jgh54@netscape.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: grove gear
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <jgh54@netscape.com>
is there any advantage to grove gear over standard KF 5 gear
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
I did an annual on a Avid Magnum after a bad ground loop. The right let was
bent. The owner wanted to try and straighten it out. I said no way it had a
twist and 2 plus inches out of alignment. Sent it to Grove they straighten
it out and reheatreated it $300. There was some tip damage but I don't think
the aircraft would have come out as well as it did with out a grove gear.
Maybe some day I can upgrade my model IV.
Paul N102DG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: grove gear
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> I recently dropped a landing in from about 20 feet. I had the impression
> that I saw the wheels come up to about even with my ears. !!! The Grove
> gear just soaked it up and after a very careful inspection, I found no
> damage to the plane. Unbelievable!
>
> I don't think that the bungee gear would have survived that.
>
> I haven't much experience with bungee gear, but I think the extra width of
> the Grove gear make you less prone to ground loops. I feel very stable
> with
> the Grove gear.
>
> Randy - Series 5/7 912S
>
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> jgh54@netscape.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: grove gear
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: <jgh54@netscape.com>
>
>
> is there any advantage to grove gear over standard KF 5 gear
>
>
> Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: landings FLapperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Guys,
I just check my POM for the Kitfox IV 1050 gross and it states
-- "You should restrict flap deflection to 25 degrees. deflection
beyond 25 degrees tends to restrict aileron travel and effectiveness."
now it does not give a maxinmum deflection but it states for maximum
performance take off to "use FULL DOWN"
And mine measure at 33 Degrees Full down and they do work well but like
i said it is lift but at a cost of drag temporarily.
I can verify this by having done it many times as well as verifying the
measurement and deflection in degrees for the naysayers.
My manual states the above What does your state?
fowler flaps (flapprons ) are a very effective flap.
btw many C 150 152 172 180 185s al lhave 30 to 40 degree flap
settings.
Also the older foxes and avid had a different Flapperon system and were
somewhat less effective and limited that the Model IV
Kirby ...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landings FLapperons
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley"
<n93hj@numail.org>
>
> That's what my book says.
> By the way, regarding differential aileron deflection. Any flap
deployment
> starts to errode the differential effect to a point at full flaps
where
> there is a ton of differential but unfortunately it's in the wrong
> direction. In other words, when flaps are deployed the rudder
reqirements
> change dramatically. No big deal just something to keep in mind when
> transitioning from flaps and ailerons to flaperons. You can show
your
> friends how to "dutch roll".
> Brett
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landings FLapperons
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs
<MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> >
> > >My Flapperons on the KF IV are 33 degree Full down. I use 15 to
20
> > >deg for soft field wheel
> >
> > I've been seeing all kinds of numbers for flaperon deflection. I
> > thought the factory specs for the Model IV were 22 degrees for
full
> > flaps. Someone correct me.
> >
> > Mike G.
> > N728KF
> >
> >
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | [ John T. Soner ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: John T. Soner <john@dakotacubaircraft.com>
Lists: Kitfox-List
Subject: KF III Elevator Trim
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/john@dakotacubaircraft.com.09.03.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
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6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | [ David Savener ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: David Savener <david_savener@msn.com>
Lists: Kitfox-List
Subject: Tail Wheel Airplane Shuttle
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/david_savener@msn.com.09.03.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | kitfox parts wanted |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" <iworonko@cox.net>
I am rebuilding a wrecked Speedster and am looking for parts. Need windshield,
internal wing parts , left wing tip, rudder, flaperons.....
Eric
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
I always heard the Grove Guaranteed their gear for LIFE and did repairs for
free. This must have changed. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: grove gear
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom"
<ppeerenbo@charter.net>
>
> I did an annual on a Avid Magnum after a bad ground loop. The right let
was
> bent. The owner wanted to try and straighten it out. I said no way it had
a
> twist and 2 plus inches out of alignment. Sent it to Grove they straighten
> it out and reheatreated it $300. There was some tip damage but I don't
think
> the aircraft would have come out as well as it did with out a grove gear.
> Maybe some day I can upgrade my model IV.
>
> Paul N102DG
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: grove gear
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> > <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
> >
> > I recently dropped a landing in from about 20 feet. I had the
impression
> > that I saw the wheels come up to about even with my ears. !!! The
Grove
> > gear just soaked it up and after a very careful inspection, I found no
> > damage to the plane. Unbelievable!
> >
> > I don't think that the bungee gear would have survived that.
> >
> > I haven't much experience with bungee gear, but I think the extra width
of
> > the Grove gear make you less prone to ground loops. I feel very stable
> > with
> > the Grove gear.
> >
> > Randy - Series 5/7 912S
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > jgh54@netscape.com
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: grove gear
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: <jgh54@netscape.com>
> >
> >
> > is there any advantage to grove gear over standard KF 5 gear
> >
> >
> > Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
I never heard of a guarantee, or warrantee that covers CRASH damage. That's
what insurance is for...
cliff
> I always heard the Grove Guaranteed their gear for LIFE and did repairs
> for
> free. This must have changed. bob U.
>
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