Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - Re: Grove Gear (Kerry Skyring)
2. 12:57 AM - Re: Norway. (Michael Gibbs)
3. 05:37 AM - Re: SV: landings FLapperons (Wwillyard@aol.com)
4. 07:54 AM - Re: Re:912 coolant (Lowell Fitt)
5. 08:36 AM - Re: Re:912 coolant (Rick)
6. 09:40 AM - Re: Re:912 coolant (Donna and Roger McConnell)
7. 09:53 AM - [PLEASE READ] Matronics Upgrade Today 9/11/05 Sunday! (Matt Dralle)
8. 11:55 PM - Drain Holes in Fabric (cjswa)
9. 11:57 PM - Re: Night VFR (Jeffrey Puls)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
Lloyd wrote...
Anyone ever polish their gear?
Yes Lloyd we polished the grove gear and it looks good. We do not have the
camber problem
you have.
Kerry S5 Outback.
>
>
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>I was talking on another pilot list about accidents occurring with
>twin engines, where pilots loose control when one fails, because
>they are not properly trained to fly on one engine.
I've heard that when a twin engine aircraft looses an engine, there
is always enough power left to make it to the scene of the accident.
:-)
>Flying such a terrain, I log in a flight plan, Mike. Hopefully, if
>something goes wrong, the SeaKing helicopter should lift half an
>hour after ETA.
I don't know how the system works in Norway, Michel, but in the U.S.
they start making PHONE calls once you've exceeded your ETA by enough
time. I'm not sure how many phone calls or how long it takes for
them to determine that you are probably in real trouble, but it
certainly delays the launching of helicopters.
In my case, as soon as we hit the ground I called for help on the
radio and immediately reached airport personnel only 10 miles away.
It still took them FIVE HOURS to find us, get to us, and evacuate us
to the hospital in Phoenix (30 minutes flight time away).
Some basic survival/comfort items might make the difference between
an uncomfortable day and a tragic one. The water and hand-held radio
I carried in the Kitfox that day saved my life.
I hope this doesn't come across as a lecture. I don't think we
should live each day worrying about what awful thing could happen,
but I do think a little preparation ahead of time can make a big
difference in how things turn out.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: landings FLapperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com
In a message dated 9/7/2005 8:58:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kitfox@gto.net
writes:
>Has anyone measured their actual flapperon deflection ?
>Am i the only one that has measured 4 now and all 30 degree to 33
>degree on model IV's
I measured mine this weekend. 25.8 degree total before aileron interference
at which I have installed a mechanical stop. Approximately 23.5 degrees travel
from the point where flapperons are set for trim at level flight.
Bill W.
Classic IV
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Roy, thanks for the post. This is pretty much as I remembered it at the
Oshkosh forum last year. I didn't take notes, though. Thanks for doing so
and posting them. I like the opinions of the group, but I have to say, I
like what the experts say a bit better.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lmar" <my93avid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re:912 coolant
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar <my93avid@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Rotax Discussion
>
>
> I attended the 7/28/04 8:30am "Rotax 912 and 912S Basic Engine
> Maintenance" forum. Here are the notes I took from the session.
>
> Eric Tucker, works for Kodiak Research, the Rotax Importer for the US.
> http://www.kodiakbs.com/. They sell engines to Lockwood Aviation Supply,
> California Power Systems etc. Eric was shown as the presenter in the
> program, but in fact he was backup for Phil Lockwood.
>
> Phil Lockwood did most of the presentation. He is the owner/manager of
> Lockwood
>
> Aviation Supply.
>
> The presentation applied to all Rotax four stroke engines. 912, 912S, 914,
> certified and non certified versions. I'll use 91x to indicate all these
> engines in the following notes.
>
> Through out the presentation, both Phil and Eric stressed that the 91x
> family of engines, once running, will get you to your destination. They
> may self destruct in the process. Loss of all the coolant will result in
> overheating; engine would keep running, but will likely warp the heads.
> They implied the engines would run without oil for a long time - again,
> the engine may not restart after this abuse. I believe there were other
> examples that I did not write down.
>
>
> Oil discussion:
>
> - Recommend maximum 50 hour oil change. This is more frequent than the
> manual states for some conditions.
>
> - Pre-oil the new oil filter when doing an oil change. (That is fill the
> filter with new oil before installing it on the engine. Some discussion
> about mess followed, and Eric said to at least fill the new filter half
> way with oil, then it could be installed without pouring the oil out.)
>
> - When installing the filter, max three quarter turn after rubber gasket
> makes contact with the engine case. DO NOT turn filter until the filter
> touches the case.
>
> - Oil formulations have been changing during the last several years. The
> newer oils foam more. This can cause problems in the 91x family.
>
> - The oil dipstick change was because of the foaming.
>
> - Recommend keeping the oil tank near the top of the range.
>
> - Proper way to check oil is to rotate the prop in the normal direction
> until the oil tank gurgles. Then check the level in the tank.
>
> - DO NOT rotate the prop backwards. This can pull oil out of the engine. A
> few degrees of backward rotation is not a problem. A full rotation of the
> prop could be a problem.
>
> - When changing the oil, just remove the oil tank drain plug to empty the
> oil tank and change the oil filter. DO NOT try to get ALL the oil out.
> Some customers who have had oil related problems have rotated the prop
> backwards to pump the oil out of the engine during their oil changes.
>
> - Need to use motorcycle type oil because the 91x family shares the
> crankcase oil with the gearbox oil - like most motorcycles. This oil has
> additives to protect the gears.
>
> - Castrol GPS and Motul have been REMOVED from the recommend list because
> of foaming.
>
> - Penzoil motorcycle oil is OK to use
>
> - Any semi synthetic motorcycle oil is OK to use.
>
> - Honda motorcycle oil will not be listed as OK to use because Honda is
> possible competitor, but the Honda motorcycle oil is OK to use.
>
> - California Power Systems AV-9 showed some foaming in testing and is
> currently being reformulated.
>
> - DO NOT use pure synthetic oil when using 100LL fuel. Pure synthetic will
> not hold the lead in suspension properly.
>
>
> Cooling discussion:
>
> - Recommend CHT operation in 180F to 240F range. Also recommend max of
> 125C which is higher than 240F.
>
> - It is normal for EGT and CHT to be different on each side.
>
> - No real value to having EGT.
>
> - IF the center of the CHT sensors supplied with the engine are gone, then
> the engine has been TOO HOT. The center of the sensor has melted.
>
> - There is a new higher pressure radiator cap available. Eric did not seem
> to enthusiastic about it. Typically raises the temperature before
> releasing pressure about 10C.
>
> - Use phosphate free coolant.
>
> - Use silicate free coolant.
>
> - Dexcool coolant works well.
>
> - Don't mix green and orange coolant. Flush system if changing.
>
> - Recommended minimum of 50% coolant (with remainder being distilled
> water).
>
> - If having trouble with coolant/distilled water boiling, may need to move
> to highest recommend concentration of coolant as recommended by coolant
> manufacture.
>
> - If still having trouble with coolant/distilled water boiling, using
> Evans coolant is OK. Evans coolant does not use water and runs without a
> pressurized cap.
>
>
> Fuel:
>
> - If flying over 12,000ft, recommended using avgas to avoid vapor locking.
>
> Carburetors:
>
> - Keep the carbs synchronized. Check every 100 hours. Check at idle and
> just off idle.
>
> - Recommend 1800 rpm as minimum idle speed to maximize gearbox life.
>
> - Recommend overhauling the carbs every 600 hours.
>
> - Choke (enricher) only works with the throttle fully closed.
>
> - Recommended running 2200-2400 RPM just after start until engine will
> idle smoothly below this speed.
>
>
> Gearbox discussion:
>
> - Recommend 912S engines be upgraded to the slipper clutch. There is
> increased possibility of kickback with the slipper clutch. Therefore, this
> also requires the upgraded starter at the same time. There is a reduced
> cost upgrade program available.
>
> - Recommended having gear box serviced every 300 hours of operation for
> 912S without the slipper clutch (over run clutch).
>
> - There was a recommendation to check the gearbox play every 100 (?) hours
> of operation. The discussion followed what is in the manual. This is for
> engines which do not have the slipper clutch. Sorry, I'm not sure of the
> frequency that was recommended.
>
> - Would not try to hand prop a Rotax 912S. Much higher compression than
> the 912 or the 914.
>
>
> There was a discussion about the service bulletins. Basically, there are
> bulletins because the factory continues to develop the engines. The
> development is the result of customer/user feedback. Service bulletins are
> only required for certified versions of the engines in certified planes.
> The service bulletins are a good idea for the non certified engines.
>
>
> I hope some of you find this posting useful.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy
>
> N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
> 270hrs, 338 landings
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
I was always under the impression it was just the opposite. No real value to
having a cylinder head temp gage on water cooled heads. EGTs are considered
accurate on both air and water cooled. What would be the reason for
measuring heads temps that are water cooled?
Rick
> Cooling discussion:
>
> - Recommend CHT operation in 180F to 240F range. Also recommend max of
> 125C which is higher than 240F.
>
> - It is normal for EGT and CHT to be different on each side.
>
> - No real value to having EGT.
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Roy,
Thanks, this is good information. I printed this off, it's
definitely a keeper.
Roger Mac
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lmar
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re:912 coolant
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar <my93avid@yahoo.com>
Rotax Discussion
I attended the 7/28/04 8:30am "Rotax 912 and 912S Basic Engine Maintenance"
forum. Here are the notes I took from the session.
Eric Tucker, works for Kodiak Research, the Rotax Importer for the US.
http://www.kodiakbs.com/. They sell engines to Lockwood Aviation Supply,
California Power Systems etc. Eric was shown as the presenter in the
program, but in fact he was backup for Phil Lockwood.
Phil Lockwood did most of the presentation. He is the owner/manager of
Lockwood
Aviation Supply.
The presentation applied to all Rotax four stroke engines. 912, 912S, 914,
certified and non certified versions. I'll use 91x to indicate all these
engines in the following notes.
Through out the presentation, both Phil and Eric stressed that the 91x
family of engines, once running, will get you to your destination. They may
self destruct in the process. Loss of all the coolant will result in
overheating; engine would keep running, but will likely warp the heads. They
implied the engines would run without oil for a long time - again, the
engine may not restart after this abuse. I believe there were other examples
that I did not write down.
Oil discussion:
- Recommend maximum 50 hour oil change. This is more frequent than the
manual states for some conditions.
- Pre-oil the new oil filter when doing an oil change. (That is fill the
filter with new oil before installing it on the engine. Some discussion
about mess followed, and Eric said to at least fill the new filter half way
with oil, then it could be installed without pouring the oil out.)
- When installing the filter, max three quarter turn after rubber gasket
makes contact with the engine case. DO NOT turn filter until the filter
touches the case.
- Oil formulations have been changing during the last several years. The
newer oils foam more. This can cause problems in the 91x family.
- The oil dipstick change was because of the foaming.
- Recommend keeping the oil tank near the top of the range.
- Proper way to check oil is to rotate the prop in the normal direction
until the oil tank gurgles. Then check the level in the tank.
- DO NOT rotate the prop backwards. This can pull oil out of the engine. A
few degrees of backward rotation is not a problem. A full rotation of the
prop could be a problem.
- When changing the oil, just remove the oil tank drain plug to empty the
oil tank and change the oil filter. DO NOT try to get ALL the oil out. Some
customers who have had oil related problems have rotated the prop backwards
to pump the oil out of the engine during their oil changes.
- Need to use motorcycle type oil because the 91x family shares the
crankcase oil with the gearbox oil - like most motorcycles. This oil has
additives to protect the gears.
- Castrol GPS and Motul have been REMOVED from the recommend list because of
foaming.
- Penzoil motorcycle oil is OK to use
- Any semi synthetic motorcycle oil is OK to use.
- Honda motorcycle oil will not be listed as OK to use because Honda is
possible competitor, but the Honda motorcycle oil is OK to use.
- California Power Systems AV-9 showed some foaming in testing and is
currently being reformulated.
- DO NOT use pure synthetic oil when using 100LL fuel. Pure synthetic will
not hold the lead in suspension properly.
Cooling discussion:
- Recommend CHT operation in 180F to 240F range. Also recommend max of 125C
which is higher than 240F.
- It is normal for EGT and CHT to be different on each side.
- No real value to having EGT.
- IF the center of the CHT sensors supplied with the engine are gone, then
the engine has been TOO HOT. The center of the sensor has melted.
- There is a new higher pressure radiator cap available. Eric did not seem
to enthusiastic about it. Typically raises the temperature before releasing
pressure about 10C.
- Use phosphate free coolant.
- Use silicate free coolant.
- Dexcool coolant works well.
- Don't mix green and orange coolant. Flush system if changing.
- Recommended minimum of 50% coolant (with remainder being distilled water).
- If having trouble with coolant/distilled water boiling, may need to move
to highest recommend concentration of coolant as recommended by coolant
manufacture.
- If still having trouble with coolant/distilled water boiling, using Evans
coolant is OK. Evans coolant does not use water and runs without a
pressurized cap.
Fuel:
- If flying over 12,000ft, recommended using avgas to avoid vapor locking.
Carburetors:
- Keep the carbs synchronized. Check every 100 hours. Check at idle and just
off idle.
- Recommend 1800 rpm as minimum idle speed to maximize gearbox life.
- Recommend overhauling the carbs every 600 hours.
- Choke (enricher) only works with the throttle fully closed.
- Recommended running 2200-2400 RPM just after start until engine will idle
smoothly below this speed.
Gearbox discussion:
- Recommend 912S engines be upgraded to the slipper clutch. There is
increased possibility of kickback with the slipper clutch. Therefore, this
also requires the upgraded starter at the same time. There is a reduced cost
upgrade program available.
- Recommended having gear box serviced every 300 hours of operation for 912S
without the slipper clutch (over run clutch).
- There was a recommendation to check the gearbox play every 100 (?) hours
of operation. The discussion followed what is in the manual. This is for
engines which do not have the slipper clutch. Sorry, I'm not sure of the
frequency that was recommended.
- Would not try to hand prop a Rotax 912S. Much higher compression than the
912 or the 914.
There was a discussion about the service bulletins. Basically, there are
bulletins because the factory continues to develop the engines. The
development is the result of customer/user feedback. Service bulletins are
only required for certified versions of the engines in certified planes. The
service bulletins are a good idea for the non certified engines.
I hope some of you find this posting useful.
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
270hrs, 338 landings
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 7
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| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Matronics Upgrade Today 9/11/05 Sunday! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I will be implementing some major upgrades to the Matronics
infrastructure today, Sunday 09/11/2005. During the upgrade, web
services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and the
Subscription Page will not be available. Additionally, incoming and
outgoing List Email will not be processed during this time, although
no actual email should be lost only queued for later delivery.
This is a rather substantial upgrade and includes moving all network,
computer, and UPS equipment to a new systems rack. I hope to have
everything back on line by 8PM PDT tonight or sooner if all goes well.
This is an awesome upgrade that I've been wanting to do for a long
time, and should help increase availability of the Matronics systems
to near 99.99%!
Thank you for your patience!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Drain Holes in Fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cjswa" <cjswa@comcast.net>
List,
I'm in the process of covering the fuselage and rudder on my Model 4 and was
wondering where to locate the drain holes. Specifically, should there be
drain holes in the rudder and vertical stabilizer, and if so where and how
many? Also, any drain holes needed in the fuselage other than near the
tailspring?
Thanks for any and all advice,
Bill Anderson
Model 4 - 1050
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
If you guys want some cool instrument lighting here is a suggestion. I went
to the Pelican website. They sell flashlights. There is a very small one
that has a little clip on it. I bought two of these and put adel clamps on
them and put them on the overhead braces each side. I tilted them downward.
They come with red and green lens. Plenty of light and they look cool on
the instruments. They take about three nicad batteries (wafer type) and
will go about 200 hours (So they say). They look professionally mounted and
they look like they belong there. Cheap! Jeff Classic IV
> [Original Message]
> From: Andrew Matthaey <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 10:58:03 PM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Night VFR
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
<spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
>
> Wow - I took the 'Fox up tonight...It was NOTHING short of incredible -
> there aren't words. I haven't installed the instrument lighting, but I
went
> up anyway with a flashlight, though I didn't end up using it. I could
just
> make out the white hands on the instruments, and I knew where they should
be
> - and I was able to keep altitude/airspeed very nicely.
>
> I climbed up to two thousand feet and just cruised with the doors open,
> enjoying the warm night air (a temp. inversion had already begun). A
local
> airport - Sanford, ME, had one of the runways lit up like a christmas
tree,
> complete with the "rabbit" for the ILS. Portsmouth, NH was gorgeous, and
I
> even saw some fireworks! If it weren't for my buddy waiting for me on the
> ground, I would never have come down :)
>
> I started my descent and just crossed the threshold on short final when
the
> runway lights went out. I fiddled with the handheld to turn them back on
and
> then went around for another shot. I watched the landing light hit the
> pavement and made a greaser of a wheel-landing - absolutely perfect!
>
> I'm still grinning ear-to-ear, two hours later! What a privilege!
>
> Andrew
>
>
> >From: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Night VFR
> >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:31:49 -0400
> >
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
> ><spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
> >
> >Of course, Canada always follows suit! LoL...j/k
> >
> >Andrew
> >
> >
> > >From: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
> > >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Night VFR
> > >Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:17:35 -0600
> > >
> > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
> > >
> > >... and Canada
> > >
> > >SteveZ
> > >Calgary, Canada
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
> > >Matthaey
> > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Night VFR
> > >
> > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
> > ><spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > >Oh god I love sailing...that's my next project, when I get out of
school
> >-
> > >a
> > >
> > >little two-person, seaworthy sailboat. I would love to see Norway...I'm
> > >mostly Norwegian through my grandparents...When I worked for Virgin
> > >Atlantic
> > >
> > >Airways after High School, I was sent to London for training. I almost
> >got
> > >a
> > >
> > >non-rev standby ticket to Oslo...had to go to Hong Kong instead though!
> > >
> > >I hear that the United States is one of very few countries to allow
> >pilots
> > >to fly at night, VFR, without an Instrument ticket...
> > >
> > >Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> > > >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Night VFR
> > > >Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:41:46 +0200
> > > >
> > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
<michel@online.no>
> > > >
> > > >Andrew Matthaey wrote:
> > > > > I love flying at night
> > > >
> > > >That's my only regret, Andrew: with my Norwegian Utralight license, I
> > >can't
> > >
> > > >fly
> > > >at night. But I'd love to. I have sailed a lot at night and I like it
> > >very
> > > >much. In fact, I find it easier because I can easily find my position
> > >from
> > > >bearings on lighthouses. The Norwegian and Swedish archipelago is
very
> > > >complex
> > > >but well lit by sector lights. You just follow the white sector.
When
> >it
> > > >gets
> > > >red or green, you're too much on one or the other side. It's very
> > >exciting
> > > >to
> > > >pass between islands you don't see, knowing that you're on the right
> > >track
> > > >because, before you, many fishermen have used the same channel and
made
> > >it
> > > >safe. ... but, I am getting off-topic, here! :-)
> > > >
> > > >Enjoy your night flying, friend!
> > > >
> > > >Cheers,
> > > >Michel
> > > >
> > > >do not archive
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
>
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>
>
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