Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:36 AM - Re: Changes at NSI (Fox5flyer)
2. 09:21 AM - Elec. Trim (Jay Carter)
3. 09:42 AM - Re: Elec. Trim (AMuller589@aol.com)
4. 09:57 AM - Re: Oil tank issues - 4 Lmar/Larry (kitfoxjunky)
5. 10:09 AM - VR (Jay Carter)
6. 10:46 AM - Re: Norway. (Michel Verheughe)
7. 10:53 AM - Re: Elec. Trim (Rick)
8. 11:23 AM - battery (Mike Chaney)
9. 11:48 AM - Re: battery (kitfoxjunky)
10. 11:57 AM - Re: battery - another thought (kitfoxjunky)
11. 01:29 PM - Re: battery - another thought (flier)
12. 02:55 PM - Re: battery (PWilson)
13. 04:09 PM - MAC Elevator Control (Ted Palamarek)
14. 05:25 PM - Re: battery - another thought (neflyer48)
15. 07:04 PM - Fuel burn (John Anderson)
16. 07:38 PM - Re: Fuel burn (Rick)
17. 08:07 PM - Re: Elec. Trim (Lowell Fitt)
18. 10:48 PM - Re: battery - another thought (Shane Sather)
19. 11:53 PM - Re: Fuel burn (John Anderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Changes at NSI |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Rick and Jim.
With my NSI system I went through a frustrating experience trying to figure
out why the engine was missing when under heavy load (takeoff/climb). The
first thing Lance suggested was to replace the crank trigger (pickup) as the
first batch he got in had about a ten percent failure rate (also made by
Electromotive). They wouldn't actually quit, just cause some missfiring
under load, exactly like mine. So I purchased the pickup and replaced it
with the result being the same problem. With the help of a good, and
knowlegeable friend, we sat down at a table and just drew out the system to
see where the problem might possibly be. To make a long story short I
decided to just change the spark plugs to see what would happen. Well, that
was it! Ran perfect after that and has since (about 300 hours). I had been
using a small sandblaster to clean the plugs every 25 hours and probably
cracked an insulator. Now I just replace them every 100 hours. Those
ignition modules are fairly robust so another thing to consider would be
plug wires. Hope this helps.
Good luck,
Deke
> You are correct, Electromotive is the source. You might start and make
sure
> the engine is warm and easy to start. Switch the pick up lead connections.
> If she starts then it was the ignition pick up and not the coil pack. Be
> sure the good ignition if of course off. I know it sounds to simple but
make
> sure all the pin /amp connectors are making mated contact. Most likely its
> the pick up. I think NSI was starting to use a later model coil pack, so
not
> sure on the availability of the older units. Electromotive makes some
really
> nice new units with some added features. But as always...money money
money.
>
> Rick N656T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changes at NSI
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Jim, are you positive it's the ignition module? There are two other
things
> that can cause problems in that area; the isolation module (sometimes
called
> the coil joiner) and the crank trigger assembly. Using Howard's ignition
> module to check it out is a lucky break. Hope you don't have to buy one
> because I think they're pretty expensive. You might be able to get one
from
> http://www.electromotive-inc.com/ who I believe are the manufacturers of
the
> units.
> Deke
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Crowder" <jimlc@att.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Changes at NSI
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
> >
> > I have been in contact with NSI both Friday and Today. Lance is gone
> > and new management is in place. There is a name change to MG
> > Propulsion Systems, if I got that right. It was apparently not a
> > friendly separation with Lance. The overall owner remains the
> > same. Craig is still there although not in either time I
> > called. The good news is that they are answering the phone except
> > during lunch time.
> >
> > My new problem is that I have lost one side of my duel ignition. I
> > lost it slowly, but finally completely while running the engine on
> > the ground over the period of one hour. Mine is one of the early
> > production models with I assume, an early ignition system. I have
> > reviewed some of the List emails from 2002 on the subject.
> >
> > More good news is that I was put in touch with Bob Eatwell who is in
> > charge of new electrical design for the new company. He is from
> > England and in fact is leaving for a week in England tomorrow. As I
> > will be heading for Minnesota on Wednesday for a week, he will be
> > back about the same time I am back. He asked me to do some more
> > trouble shooting and in the meantime he will obtain data on my
> > system. I am to call him back and he will be prepared to work
> > through the system with me. Maybe then I will finally get my plane
> > flying. All together I only have about 11 flight hours on the
> > plane. I am determined to stick with it and work the bugs out this
time.
> :)
> >
> > For now I can report that they are very business like in their
> > response, say they have plenty of resources, and intend to get the
> > new company on the road. I got no feeling that they were going to
> > sideslip old problems. Those of you who have issues with NSI, I
> > suggest you give them a new call.
> >
> > Jim Crowder
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Carter" <valley361@centurytel.net>
Anyone on the list still have the source for the 12V
regulator to reduce the voltage to the electric trim actuator?
Jay C.
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
I found no reference in the e-mail list to the 12 volt trim regulator. Is
there a problem with it? We did burn out our brushes at 43 hours total time.
Would the regulator have prevented this?
Has this been a problem with anyone else. We had the brushes replaced for
$16.00.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oil tank issues - 4 Lmar/Larry |
Serialize complete at 09/13/2005 12:57:04 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
I remembered a discussion about this earlier. Here is the response to a
similar posting.....
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Herbert R Gottelt
> <gofalke@sbcglobal.net>
>
> When first running the 912 in 1997 I did not realize the oil syphoning
> back to the sump. I thought the engine was low on oil and I refilled it
to
> the mark just before the next engine start. What a mess it caused!
> I installed a small check valve between the tank and the oil cooler so
it
> was free flowing with the spring removed ,and the side where the spring
> formerly was I raised up to 90 degrees. That was sufficient to stop the
> oil flow after shutdown. The suction of the oil pump raises the ball,
> permitting unrestricted oil flow.
> I have this system since 1997 and never had any problems with it.
>
> Herbert Gottelt, M-IV-1200.
> Mount Prospect, IL
--------------------------------
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar <my93avid@yahoo.com>
Hi,
I'm passing this along for a friend. Thanks - Larry
his oil tank is located above the engine ( Rotax 4 stroke) and the oil
drains into the rear cylinders after sitting a few days. Rotax answer is
to lower the tank but it is where Kitfox puts it. Any ideas?
There is so much oil in the cylinder that he pulls the plug to drain it
out.
---------------------------------
Watch the Hurricane Katrina Shelter From The Storm concert
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Carter" <valley361@centurytel.net>
I looked in the archives and did not find any information either. There
was informatiom on the list at one time. The circuit is to slow the operating
speed of the trim motor to allow for better trim control at cruise speed. Item
was not from Skystar.
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Michael Gibbs wrote:
> In my case, as soon as we hit the ground I called for help on the
> radio and immediately reached airport personnel only 10 miles away.
> It still took them FIVE HOURS to find us, get to us, and evacuate us
> to the hospital in Phoenix (30 minutes flight time away).
Yes, I remember that, Mike.
Giving our cell phone number has become a normal part of filling in a flight
plan, in Norway (and many other coutries, I guess). A handheld emergency radio
sounds good too. But if I crash in the central part of Norway, no VFR or cell
phone will work. The only hope is to reach e.g. an airliner on 121.50 or have
an ELT that works on the Cospar-Sarsat satellites.
In any case, I am sure it will take more than half an hour here too.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
I could be wrong but reducing the voltage to the motor will increase the
work load, higher amperage draw. The best system would use a step motor or
driver so the pulses are still at 13.5 volts but move the motor in small
steps , slower speeds.
Rick N656T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AMuller589@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elec. Trim
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
I found no reference in the e-mail list to the 12 volt trim regulator. Is
there a problem with it? We did burn out our brushes at 43 hours total time.
Would the regulator have prevented this?
Has this been a problem with anyone else. We had the brushes replaced for
$16.00.
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
I would like to install some type of quick disconect for my battery. Any
suggestions out there?
Mike Chaney
Message 9
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Serialize complete at 09/13/2005 02:47:27 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Bolt cutter? Just kidding :-)
I use butterfly nuts on the terminals. Not exotic, but works fine for me
and only takes a few seconds to get the battery in and out. I think the
ability to crank them tight and know they are secure outweighs the
benefits of a quick connect that could potentially quick disconnect.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
I would like to install some type of quick disconect for my
battery. Any
suggestions out there?
Mike Chaney
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: battery - another thought |
Serialize complete at 09/13/2005 02:57:32 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
That posting by Mike about the battery terminals tweaked a thought.
I read an article a long time ago about someone who hand propped a Rotax
912. It was in an early Kitplanes where a couple built two Murphy
Renegades and flew them around the states. The text indicated it was not
a comfortable experience...downright scary in fact. I imagine a 912S
would be even worse, if you could do it at all.
I usually operate on floats and I have always been worried that for some
reason the battery would fail (or I would leave the master on...again)
when out in the boonies. I have been looking at those small solar panels,
the ones that can be used to trickle charge batteries, and thought that
the skylight in the KF would be a great place to mount one. Not sure if
one small enough to install overhead would have enough punch to charge the
battery within say 24 hours.
Anyone installed something like this?
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: battery - another thought |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Hey Gary,
I've hand started my 912UL a few times. Battery was
too far gone to turn the starter. It fired right
up. It's no big deal if you're used to hand
propping. An 'S might be tougher.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: battery - another thought
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
<kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
>
>That posting by Mike about the battery terminals
tweaked a thought.
>
>I read an article a long time ago about someone who
hand propped a Rotax
>912. It was in an early Kitplanes where a couple
built two Murphy
>Renegades and flew them around the states. The text
indicated it was not
>a comfortable experience...downright scary in
fact. I imagine a 912S
>would be even worse, if you could do it at all.
>
>I usually operate on floats and I have always been
worried that for some
>reason the battery would fail (or I would leave the
master on...again)
>when out in the boonies. I have been looking at
those small solar panels,
>the ones that can be used to trickle charge
batteries, and thought that
>the skylight in the KF would be a great place to
mount one. Not sure if
>one small enough to install overhead would have
enough punch to charge the
>battery within say 24 hours.
>
>Anyone installed something like this?
>
>Gary Walsh
>C-GOOT
>www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
>do not archive
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
======================================================
======
>
>
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
The battery stores have the push to connect industrial connectors. It
would require short +&- pigtails. They come in at least 3 different
amp ratings. They are not to heavy. I use them on my truck to connect
a portable winch which draws 600 amps.
For charging a battery without removing it from the plane: If you
have power where you park your plane then a battery maintainer is the
way to go. The one I use keeps the battery at 13v and only charges at
a 1.5a rate. The battery experts say a battery maintained like that
should last 5-10 years. With this low charge rate a 1/8" mini jack
connected to the battery located in a handy place would be all you
need in the plane.
I plan to use this method and only remove the battery when it is
time to discard it.
If you don't have power where you park the plane a solar cell will
work fine. Good ones are in the 1 amp range and have the maintain
feature that shuts off the power at 13v. In fact at such a low charge
rate I suspect the cells could be used with no more electronics than
a diode to prevent discharge when the sun is not shining. I saw such
a solar cell in a Harbor Freight catalog for $10. Put the solar cell
on the roof of the hanger or on top of the wing or anyplace that sees the sun.
I had a buddy with a no electric plane and he had a solar cell in the
skylight to charge his hand held radio. He just left the radio
plugged in all the time.
Regards, Paul
============
At 12:47 PM 9/13/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
>
> I would like to install some type of quick disconect for my
>battery. Any
>suggestions out there?
>
>Mike Chaney
Message 13
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| Subject: | MAC Elevator Control |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Someone was asking about the "True Servo Conversion for MAC
Servos" That discussion took place a while back and it is
a fellow by the name of Eric Jones who devised a Pulse Width
Modulated control for the MAC. His outfit is called
Perihelion Design and one of the items he offers is a ready
made controller for only $37.99. you can find a ckt diagram
and write up by going to the site below and clicking on
""Lots more stuff"" and you'll find it there. Pretty smart
idea in how he accomplishes the trim with a 5K control pot
www.PerihelionDesign.com
Ted
Edmonton, Ab
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: battery - another thought |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "neflyer48" <neflyer48@cableone.net>
I have started my 912UL several times when the battery was getting bad. It
doesn't start very well by pulling through just one compression stroke. If I
pull through 2 quick compressions it starts every time. Care must be taken
and wear gloves. The back edge of the prop where you need to pull is
somewhat sharp. I start it from the back side of the prop pulling down on
the passenger side. Also I usually have someone inside holding the brakes.
Hope this helps.
Jerry Kohles M3 912
Norfolk Ne.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxjunky" <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: battery - another thought
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
> <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
>
> That posting by Mike about the battery terminals tweaked a thought.
>
> I read an article a long time ago about someone who hand propped a Rotax
> 912. It was in an early Kitplanes where a couple built two Murphy
> Renegades and flew them around the states. The text indicated it was not
> a comfortable experience...downright scary in fact. I imagine a 912S
> would be even worse, if you could do it at all.
>
> I usually operate on floats and I have always been worried that for some
> reason the battery would fail (or I would leave the master on...again)
> when out in the boonies. I have been looking at those small solar panels,
> the ones that can be used to trickle charge batteries, and thought that
> the skylight in the KF would be a great place to mount one. Not sure if
> one small enough to install overhead would have enough punch to charge the
> battery within say 24 hours.
>
> Anyone installed something like this?
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Would someone (Rick - Jim) have fuel burn rate per hour for the EA 81 Turbo.
Many thanks, John A.
Become a fitness fanatic @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/health
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Well as the engine is now set in I am getting 110mph IAS at about 6GPH.
Climb out 70IAS 5200RPMs 1450EGT is about 14.5GPH. 3.5 too 4 if I get real
slow but I dont like the nose up. 100 too 110 seems a good trade off. These
numbers are 1500 too 3500 MSL. Did you go with the F.I. set up. I sure wish
I was at that point. An intercooler would be nice.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel burn
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
<janderson412@hotmail.com>
Would someone (Rick - Jim) have fuel burn rate per hour for the EA 81 Turbo.
Many thanks, John A.
Become a fitness fanatic @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/health
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Jay,
Matronics, our kind host has one as one of their products.
http://www.matronics.com/ This is the one I use
Also the manufacturer of the Ray Allen trim system has one
http://www.rayallencompany.com
If you are looking for one to slow down the jack screw in the Vs and up you
might want to check the current draw and the current capacities of these
units.
For information sake, these units don't reduce the voltage, but rather they
pulse the power (square wave, I think) which results in normal voltage for
purposes of torque, but the pulse reduce the interval per second that the
current is flowing.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Carter" <valley361@centurytel.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Elec. Trim
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Carter" <valley361@centurytel.net>
>
> Anyone on the list still have the source for the 12V
> regulator to reduce the voltage to the electric trim actuator?
>
> Jay C.
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: battery - another thought |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Shane Sather" <shane2005@qiniq.com>
I hooked up a Solar charger (a flexible boat type one) through my power
point plug and it charged the battery real good. So good that it made the
Hobs meter run and it gained about 5 hours on the clock with out running the
engine.
The point being is that it will charge the battery if hooked up right and it
may be a good back up for your plane. Only weighs about 1.5 pounds or so and
easy to store.
Shane
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxjunky" <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: battery - another thought
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
> <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
>
> That posting by Mike about the battery terminals tweaked a thought.
>
> I read an article a long time ago about someone who hand propped a Rotax
> 912. It was in an early Kitplanes where a couple built two Murphy
> Renegades and flew them around the states. The text indicated it was not
> a comfortable experience...downright scary in fact. I imagine a 912S
> would be even worse, if you could do it at all.
>
> I usually operate on floats and I have always been worried that for some
> reason the battery would fail (or I would leave the master on...again)
> when out in the boonies. I have been looking at those small solar panels,
> the ones that can be used to trickle charge batteries, and thought that
> the skylight in the KF would be a great place to mount one. Not sure if
> one small enough to install overhead would have enough punch to charge the
> battery within say 24 hours.
>
> Anyone installed something like this?
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks again for that Rick.
I'll be at the hangar tomorrow so I'll send a few shots to Sportflight of
the i/cooler set up. I fitted a wee Toyota one, I couldn't get over how well
it was suited and fitted snugly under the cowl. I fabricated an internal air
duct to it and will include a shot of this too. John A.
From: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel burn
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Well as the engine is now set in I am getting 110mph IAS at about 6GPH.
Climb out 70IAS 5200RPMs 1450EGT is about 14.5GPH. 3.5 too 4 if I get real
slow but I dont like the nose up. 100 too 110 seems a good trade off. These
numbers are 1500 too 3500 MSL. Did you go with the F.I. set up. I sure wish
I was at that point. An intercooler would be nice.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel burn
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
<janderson412@hotmail.com>
Would someone (Rick - Jim) have fuel burn rate per hour for the EA 81 Turbo.
Many thanks, John A.
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