Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:18 AM - Re: Fuel burn (John Anderson)
2. 07:16 AM - Re: Drain Holes in Fabric (cjswa)
3. 07:16 AM - Fitting Cowings (Hank)
4. 07:57 AM - Re: Fitting Cowings (Tom Jones)
5. 08:36 AM - Re: Fitting Cowings (Hank)
6. 09:04 AM - Re: Fitting Cowings (flier)
7. 09:07 AM - Skystars facts about flaperons (Paul Seehafer)
8. 12:31 PM - Re: Fitting Cowings (Lowell Fitt)
9. 01:14 PM - Re: Fitting Cowlings (kitfoxjunky)
10. 01:30 PM - Re: Fitting Cowings (Hank)
11. 02:00 PM - Pilot guide (John Anderson)
12. 02:18 PM - Re: Pilot guide (Andrew Matthaey)
13. 04:01 PM - Re: Fitting Cowings (Lowell Fitt)
14. 06:10 PM - Re: Pilot guide (John Perry)
15. 06:20 PM - Engine shots (John Anderson)
16. 06:55 PM - Venturi Vacuum System (Frank & Phyllis)
17. 07:46 PM - Re: Pilot guide (John Anderson)
18. 07:49 PM - Re: Engine shots (John Perry)
19. 08:20 PM - Re: Venturi Vacuum System (AMuller589@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Sorry Rick, forgot to mention the F.I system. I fitted a Link engine
management unit, completely programable with the laptop and can hook up to
the i/net while running and pass the info down the line. Very s/forward and
easy to tune, good for dummys like me ha ha. John A.
From: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel burn
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Well as the engine is now set in I am getting 110mph IAS at about 6GPH.
Climb out 70IAS 5200RPMs 1450EGT is about 14.5GPH. 3.5 too 4 if I get real
slow but I dont like the nose up. 100 too 110 seems a good trade off. These
numbers are 1500 too 3500 MSL. Did you go with the F.I. set up. I sure wish
I was at that point. An intercooler would be nice.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel burn
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
<janderson412@hotmail.com>
Would someone (Rick - Jim) have fuel burn rate per hour for the EA 81 Turbo.
Many thanks, John A.
Become a fitness fanatic @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/health
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Drain Holes in Fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cjswa" <cjswa@comcast.net>
Joel,
I'd be very interested in seeing the pictures.
Bill Anderson
Model 4 -1050
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Fabric
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes"
<foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> I recently completed covering and paint of my model 5 which is destined
for
> floats and put seaplane style drain grommets in every wing bay, stabilizer
> bay and elevator bay. I also put one at any point in the fuselage where
> water might be trapped against a tube. Pictures are available if you're
> interested.
>
> Joel
> Model 5 912 GTA CS prop Aerocomp amphibs
>
>
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
Hi,
I am fitting the cowlings on my Model IV. The manual states a
minimum 5/8 inch from the face of the prop flange to the cowling. I
have 1.75 inches so I am over the minimum but I was wondering if this
is excessive. I can increase the gap between the forward and aft
cowls a bit and take perhaps 1/4 inch off of my clearance but that is
about it. I trimmed the absolute minimum from my front ring cowl so
that is not the problem. What kind of clearances do you all have?
On another issue. The prop flange is not centered in the ring cowl.
It is parallel to the flange and there does not seem to be any way to
fix the centering as it is really dependent on the position of the
rear cowlings which are attached rather firmly to the fuselage and
cannot be adjusted side to side.
Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
Thanks,
Hank
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Cowings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Hank,
The position of the cowl affects the slope of the wind screen too. If I
had it to do over again I would place my cowl as far forward as possible
to get more slope on the wind screen. Also reduced stress on the bends
in the wind screed and more room inside the cowl due to the cowl's taper
to the front.
Tom Jones, Classic 4, Ellensburg, Washington
Hank wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
>
>Hi,
>
>I am fitting the cowlings on my Model IV. The manual states a
>minimum 5/8 inch from the face of the prop flange to the cowling. I
>have 1.75 inches so I am over the minimum but I was wondering if this
>is excessive. I can increase the gap between the forward and aft
>cowls a bit and take perhaps 1/4 inch off of my clearance but that is
>about it. I trimmed the absolute minimum from my front ring cowl so
>that is not the problem. What kind of clearances do you all have?
>
>On another issue. The prop flange is not centered in the ring cowl.
>It is parallel to the flange and there does not seem to be any way to
>fix the centering as it is really dependent on the position of the
>rear cowlings which are attached rather firmly to the fuselage and
>cannot be adjusted side to side.
>
>Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Hank
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Cowings |
Received-SPF: none (smtp-relay.tamu.edu: domain of hank@hankseidel.com does not
designate permitted sender hosts)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
Tom,
I placed the lower-aft cowling using the scribe lines as instructed.
The dimples also lined up almost exactly where the camloc plates are
so I felt pretty good about that part but I have noticed that the aft-
top edge (where the windshield will meet the cowling) lip is not as
far forward as it appears in the picture in the manual and I have
wondered about that. There is enough fiberglass aft of the scribe
lines to move the lower-aft cowling about 3/4 inch further forward so
I may do that. BTW, I have an LP-aeroplastics wind shield. I
appreciate your input!
Thanks,
Hank
On Sep 14, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Tom Jones wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
>
> Hank,
> The position of the cowl affects the slope of the wind screen too.
> If I
> had it to do over again I would place my cowl as far forward as
> possible
> to get more slope on the wind screen. Also reduced stress on the
> bends
> in the wind screed and more room inside the cowl due to the cowl's
> taper
> to the front.
> Tom Jones, Classic 4, Ellensburg, Washington
>
> Hank wrote:
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am fitting the cowlings on my Model IV. The manual states a
>> minimum 5/8 inch from the face of the prop flange to the cowling. I
>> have 1.75 inches so I am over the minimum but I was wondering if this
>> is excessive. I can increase the gap between the forward and aft
>> cowls a bit and take perhaps 1/4 inch off of my clearance but that is
>> about it. I trimmed the absolute minimum from my front ring cowl so
>> that is not the problem. What kind of clearances do you all have?
>>
>> On another issue. The prop flange is not centered in the ring cowl.
>> It is parallel to the flange and there does not seem to be any way to
>> fix the centering as it is really dependent on the position of the
>> rear cowlings which are attached rather firmly to the fuselage and
>> cannot be adjusted side to side.
>>
>> Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Cowings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Hank,
If I remember correctly, I ended up not using the
scribe lines. I remember using almost all of the
length available (after the aft edge was squared)
then filling and sanding the scribe lines. The lines
just don't work well. It's best to secure the fore
and aft cowls as one piece as opposed to securing the
aft cowl then trying to get the front lined up and
spaced. There's just not enough play to do them
separately.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fitting Cowings
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank
<hank@hankseidel.com>
>
>Tom,
>
>I placed the lower-aft cowling using the scribe
lines as instructed.
>The dimples also lined up almost exactly where the
camloc plates are
>so I felt pretty good about that part but I have
noticed that the aft-
>top edge (where the windshield will meet the
cowling) lip is not as
>far forward as it appears in the picture in the
manual and I have
>wondered about that. There is enough fiberglass aft
of the scribe
>lines to move the lower-aft cowling about 3/4 inch
further forward so
>I may do that. BTW, I have an LP-aeroplastics wind
shield. I
>appreciate your input!
>
>Thanks,
>
>Hank
>
>On Sep 14, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Tom Jones wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones
<nahsikhs@elltel.net>
>>
>> Hank,
>> The position of the cowl affects the slope of the
wind screen too.
>> If I
>> had it to do over again I would place my cowl as
far forward as
>> possible
>> to get more slope on the wind screen. Also
reduced stress on the
>> bends
>> in the wind screed and more room inside the cowl
due to the cowl's
>> taper
>> to the front.
>> Tom Jones, Classic 4, Ellensburg, Washington
>>
>> Hank wrote:
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank
<hank@hankseidel.com>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am fitting the cowlings on my Model IV. The
manual states a
>>> minimum 5/8 inch from the face of the prop flange
to the cowling. I
>>> have 1.75 inches so I am over the minimum but I
was wondering if this
>>> is excessive. I can increase the gap between the
forward and aft
>>> cowls a bit and take perhaps 1/4 inch off of my
clearance but that is
>>> about it. I trimmed the absolute minimum from my
front ring cowl so
>>> that is not the problem. What kind of clearances
do you all have?
>>>
>>> On another issue. The prop flange is not centered
in the ring cowl.
>>> It is parallel to the flange and there does not
seem to be any way to
>>> fix the centering as it is really dependent on
the position of the
>>> rear cowlings which are attached rather firmly to
the fuselage and
>>> cannot be adjusted side to side.
>>>
>>> Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Hank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
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======
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Skystars facts about flaperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
All,
I know there was a lot of discussion about flapperon settings, and that 30
degrees was too much. So I checked my manual and like everyone else,
couldn't find a number to use. But just today, I was browsing through my
"Kitfox Pilot's Guide" (purchased from Skystar about a year ago - a GREAT
book all about Kitfoxes and how to fly them!) and I found something in there
about the settings. So here it is right from Skystar;
FLAPS & PITCH TRIM (page 51)
Flap operations on the Kitfox 1,2,3, and 4 (and variations)
A flap lever between the seats allows both ailerons to be drooped
simultaneously, thereby causing these surfaces to work as flaps and ailerons
at the same time (thus the term "flapperons"). On the Kitfox Model 1
through Model 4 (including Classic 4 and Kitfox Lite Squared) the flap lever
does not have specific positions, or "notches". The flaps on these Kitfoxes
use a friction system that allows them to be set in any position between 0
degrees and approximately 30 degrees, resulting in a 5 to 7 mph decrease in
stall speed.
When rigging the flaps on early Kitfoxes (pre-series 5), it is important to
set the flap lever so that 0 degrees is achieved with the flap lever about
one inch from full forward. Full deflection will then be achieved with the
flap lever in the full aft position. The actual degree setting is not
relevant. It is best to restrict the flap lever from being pulled aft more
than about 2/3 of it's full travel capability, as the roll rate will be
reduced up to 30% on Model 4 versions of the Kitfox, and up to 50% on Model
1,2,and 3 versions, if the flap lever is pulled full aft. Consider the
"Full flaps" having been achieved when the flap lever is about 2/3 back from
the 0 degree flap position. Some folks even install a stop at the 2/3
deployed position to limit flap travel. The 2/3 position will result in
about 20 degrees of flaps, a minimum landing speed with only a small
reduction in roll rate. Overall roll control is still considerably more
powerful than conventional ailerons. About 90% of the stall speed reduction
is gained when the flap lever is in the 1/2 position. The primary purpose
of Kitfox flaps is to produce lift, not drag. Again, the amount of droop may
vary from plane to plane, and the decrease in stall speed must be determined
through actual flight test.
This was word for word from Skystar. So Kirby's information was correct
when he stated he had 30 degrees on his Model IV. And it is obvious that
they droop differenly plane to plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
And incidentally Kirby, yes flapperons work great for getting off the water.
As Skystar states, they are lift devices, so they do a lot to enhance
takeoff, especially on floats. I used them for years on my Avid when flying
it on floats. When real heavy and hot, the flaperons were the only thing
that will get the airplane off the water. I've heard for years how
flapperons are useless on Avids and Kitfoxes. I've come to believe that
anyone that would say that has never explored (or experienced) the true
operating envelope of their airplane.
Paul Seehafer
Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: landings FLapperons
> Has anyone measured their actual flapperon deflection ?
> Am i the only one that has measured 4 now and all 30 degree to 33
> degree on model IV's
>
> Surely the four i have measured could be all rigged wrong like some
> have claimed but I don't know.
>
> This seems to be a critical issue as some have suggested but no input
> from others ?
>
> I measured the 4th one today and It was 30 + degrees full down
> flapperons. What are yours ?
>
>
> Maybe that Paul Scheefer could commment he seem to be one of the most
> knowledge AVID / Kitfox guys I ahve read yet - especially when it comes
> to seaplanes. I wonder is Paul would agree that Flapperons help?
>
>
> Kirby .........
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Cowings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hank, what engine are you using? In athe 912 installation, that much
clearance would eliminate the possibility of having the oil cooler in the
normal position - under the prop. My clearance is about the 5/8 minimum.
Typically the prop is not centered in the ring opening, mine is aoubt 2 to
2-1/2 inches above the mating line - upper ring to lower ring.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank" <hank@hankseidel.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fitting Cowings
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am fitting the cowlings on my Model IV. The manual states a
> minimum 5/8 inch from the face of the prop flange to the cowling. I
> have 1.75 inches so I am over the minimum but I was wondering if this
> is excessive. I can increase the gap between the forward and aft
> cowls a bit and take perhaps 1/4 inch off of my clearance but that is
> about it. I trimmed the absolute minimum from my front ring cowl so
> that is not the problem. What kind of clearances do you all have?
>
> On another issue. The prop flange is not centered in the ring cowl.
> It is parallel to the flange and there does not seem to be any way to
> fix the centering as it is really dependent on the position of the
> rear cowlings which are attached rather firmly to the fuselage and
> cannot be adjusted side to side.
>
> Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hank
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Cowlings |
Serialize complete at 09/14/2005 04:13:46 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Hank
When you say the prop is not centered I assume you mean vertically..vs
horizontally. Take a look in the "taildragger times folder" on my web site
below...and the "prop closeup" photo. You will see my prop sits high in
the cutout...as I am sure it does for others too. That allows the oil
cooler to sit below the engine in the airflow.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Cowings |
Received-SPF: none (smtp-relay.tamu.edu: domain of hank@hankseidel.com does not
designate permitted sender hosts)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
Hi Lowell,
I am using the 912ULS engine. I am referring to left/right centering.
The vertical centering being off does not bother me but the
horizontal does. The center of the prop flange is about an inch
closer to the right side ring than the left side ring. With your 5/8
inch clearance how much room do you have to spare for the oil cooler?
I can reposition my aft/lower cowling and get perhaps cut 3/4 inch
off my flange to front of ring distance but that still puts me at one
inch, not 5/8 inch.
Thanks,
Hank
On Sep 14, 2005, at 2:16 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Hank, what engine are you using? In athe 912 installation, that much
> clearance would eliminate the possibility of having the oil cooler
> in the
> normal position - under the prop. My clearance is about the 5/8
> minimum.
> Typically the prop is not centered in the ring opening, mine is
> aoubt 2 to
> 2-1/2 inches above the mating line - upper ring to lower ring.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hank" <hank@hankseidel.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fitting Cowings
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am fitting the cowlings on my Model IV. The manual states a
>> minimum 5/8 inch from the face of the prop flange to the cowling. I
>> have 1.75 inches so I am over the minimum but I was wondering if this
>> is excessive. I can increase the gap between the forward and aft
>> cowls a bit and take perhaps 1/4 inch off of my clearance but that is
>> about it. I trimmed the absolute minimum from my front ring cowl so
>> that is not the problem. What kind of clearances do you all have?
>>
>> On another issue. The prop flange is not centered in the ring cowl.
>> It is parallel to the flange and there does not seem to be any way to
>> fix the centering as it is really dependent on the position of the
>> rear cowlings which are attached rather firmly to the fuselage and
>> cannot be adjusted side to side.
>>
>> Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
How does one procure one - Pilot Guide? I went to the S/Star site but don't
seem to be able to find it.
Tried this but no way to order??
www.skystar.com/options_catalog_pages/books_page.htm
John A.
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperons
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
All,
I know there was a lot of discussion about flapperon settings, and that 30
degrees was too much. So I checked my manual and like everyone else,
couldn't find a number to use. But just today, I was browsing through my
"Kitfox Pilot's Guide" (purchased from Skystar about a year ago - a GREAT
book all about Kitfoxes and how to fly them!) and I found something in there
about the settings. So here it is right from Skystar;
FLAPS & PITCH TRIM (page 51)
Flap operations on the Kitfox 1,2,3, and 4 (and variations)
A flap lever between the seats allows both ailerons to be drooped
simultaneously, thereby causing these surfaces to work as flaps and ailerons
at the same time (thus the term "flapperons"). On the Kitfox Model 1
through Model 4 (including Classic 4 and Kitfox Lite Squared) the flap lever
does not have specific positions, or "notches". The flaps on these Kitfoxes
use a friction system that allows them to be set in any position between 0
degrees and approximately 30 degrees, resulting in a 5 to 7 mph decrease in
stall speed.
When rigging the flaps on early Kitfoxes (pre-series 5), it is important to
set the flap lever so that 0 degrees is achieved with the flap lever about
one inch from full forward. Full deflection will then be achieved with the
flap lever in the full aft position. The actual degree setting is not
relevant. It is best to restrict the flap lever from being pulled aft more
than about 2/3 of it's full travel capability, as the roll rate will be
reduced up to 30% on Model 4 versions of the Kitfox, and up to 50% on Model
1,2,and 3 versions, if the flap lever is pulled full aft. Consider the
"Full flaps" having been achieved when the flap lever is about 2/3 back from
the 0 degree flap position. Some folks even install a stop at the 2/3
deployed position to limit flap travel. The 2/3 position will result in
about 20 degrees of flaps, a minimum landing speed with only a small
reduction in roll rate. Overall roll control is still considerably more
powerful than conventional ailerons. About 90% of the stall speed reduction
is gained when the flap lever is in the 1/2 position. The primary purpose
of Kitfox flaps is to produce lift, not drag. Again, the amount of droop may
vary from plane to plane, and the decrease in stall speed must be determined
through actual flight test.
This was word for word from Skystar. So Kirby's information was correct
when he stated he had 30 degrees on his Model IV. And it is obvious that
they droop differenly plane to plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
And incidentally Kirby, yes flapperons work great for getting off the water.
As Skystar states, they are lift devices, so they do a lot to enhance
takeoff, especially on floats. I used them for years on my Avid when flying
it on floats. When real heavy and hot, the flaperons were the only thing
that will get the airplane off the water. I've heard for years how
flapperons are useless on Avids and Kitfoxes. I've come to believe that
anyone that would say that has never explored (or experienced) the true
operating envelope of their airplane.
Paul Seehafer
Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: landings FLapperons
>Has anyone measured their actual flapperon deflection ?
>Am i the only one that has measured 4 now and all 30 degree to 33
>degree on model IV's
>
>Surely the four i have measured could be all rigged wrong like some
>have claimed but I don't know.
>
>This seems to be a critical issue as some have suggested but no input
>from others ?
>
>I measured the 4th one today and It was 30 + degrees full down
>flapperons. What are yours ?
>
>
>Maybe that Paul Scheefer could commment he seem to be one of the most
>knowledge AVID / Kitfox guys I ahve read yet - especially when it comes
>to seaplanes. I wonder is Paul would agree that Flapperons help?
>
>
>Kirby .........
>
Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
I'm not sure...mine came with my plane. I was actually looking for it last
week (i've read it cover to cover about 5 times!), and I think the ex has
it! Damnit! I have a feeling I won't be seeing it again, so if somebody
finds out how to get a copy, let me know!
Andrew
do not archive
>From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Pilot guide
>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:59:28 +1200
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
><janderson412@hotmail.com>
>
>
>How does one procure one - Pilot Guide? I went to the S/Star site but don't
>seem to be able to find it.
>Tried this but no way to order??
>www.skystar.com/options_catalog_pages/books_page.htm
>John A.
>
>
>From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperons
>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:07:34 -0500
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
>All,
>
>I know there was a lot of discussion about flapperon settings, and that 30
>degrees was too much. So I checked my manual and like everyone else,
>couldn't find a number to use. But just today, I was browsing through my
>"Kitfox Pilot's Guide" (purchased from Skystar about a year ago - a GREAT
>book all about Kitfoxes and how to fly them!) and I found something in
>there
>about the settings. So here it is right from Skystar;
>
>FLAPS & PITCH TRIM (page 51)
>
>Flap operations on the Kitfox 1,2,3, and 4 (and variations)
>
>A flap lever between the seats allows both ailerons to be drooped
>simultaneously, thereby causing these surfaces to work as flaps and
>ailerons
>at the same time (thus the term "flapperons"). On the Kitfox Model 1
>through Model 4 (including Classic 4 and Kitfox Lite Squared) the flap
>lever
>does not have specific positions, or "notches". The flaps on these
>Kitfoxes
>use a friction system that allows them to be set in any position between 0
>degrees and approximately 30 degrees, resulting in a 5 to 7 mph decrease in
>stall speed.
>
>When rigging the flaps on early Kitfoxes (pre-series 5), it is important to
>set the flap lever so that 0 degrees is achieved with the flap lever about
>one inch from full forward. Full deflection will then be achieved with the
>flap lever in the full aft position. The actual degree setting is not
>relevant. It is best to restrict the flap lever from being pulled aft more
>than about 2/3 of it's full travel capability, as the roll rate will be
>reduced up to 30% on Model 4 versions of the Kitfox, and up to 50% on Model
>1,2,and 3 versions, if the flap lever is pulled full aft. Consider the
>"Full flaps" having been achieved when the flap lever is about 2/3 back
>from
>the 0 degree flap position. Some folks even install a stop at the 2/3
>deployed position to limit flap travel. The 2/3 position will result in
>about 20 degrees of flaps, a minimum landing speed with only a small
>reduction in roll rate. Overall roll control is still considerably more
>powerful than conventional ailerons. About 90% of the stall speed
>reduction
>is gained when the flap lever is in the 1/2 position. The primary purpose
>of Kitfox flaps is to produce lift, not drag. Again, the amount of droop
>may
>vary from plane to plane, and the decrease in stall speed must be
>determined
>through actual flight test.
>
>
>This was word for word from Skystar. So Kirby's information was correct
>when he stated he had 30 degrees on his Model IV. And it is obvious that
>they droop differenly plane to plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
>
>And incidentally Kirby, yes flapperons work great for getting off the
>water.
>As Skystar states, they are lift devices, so they do a lot to enhance
>takeoff, especially on floats. I used them for years on my Avid when
>flying
>it on floats. When real heavy and hot, the flaperons were the only thing
>that will get the airplane off the water. I've heard for years how
>flapperons are useless on Avids and Kitfoxes. I've come to believe that
>anyone that would say that has never explored (or experienced) the true
>operating envelope of their airplane.
>
>
>Paul Seehafer
>Wisconsin
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <kitfox@gto.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: landings FLapperons
>
>
> >Has anyone measured their actual flapperon deflection ?
> >Am i the only one that has measured 4 now and all 30 degree to 33
> >degree on model IV's
> >
> >Surely the four i have measured could be all rigged wrong like some
> >have claimed but I don't know.
> >
> >This seems to be a critical issue as some have suggested but no input
> >from others ?
> >
> >I measured the 4th one today and It was 30 + degrees full down
> >flapperons. What are yours ?
> >
> >
> >Maybe that Paul Scheefer could commment he seem to be one of the most
> >knowledge AVID / Kitfox guys I ahve read yet - especially when it comes
> >to seaplanes. I wonder is Paul would agree that Flapperons help?
> >
> >
> >Kirby .........
> >
>
>
>Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Cowings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hank I have shutters in front of my cooler that require about 3/8" clearance
forward of the oil cooler. and they just fit. I did make my own cooler
mount, though.
Can you believe, I just measured my clearance and I have 1.5" between the
front surface of the prop flange and the front surface of the ring cowl.
(where did I get 5/8") I guess that puts you in pretty good shape if you
can capture that 1/4".
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank" <hank@hankseidel.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fitting Cowings
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
>
> Hi Lowell,
>
> I am using the 912ULS engine. I am referring to left/right centering.
> The vertical centering being off does not bother me but the
> horizontal does. The center of the prop flange is about an inch
> closer to the right side ring than the left side ring. With your 5/8
> inch clearance how much room do you have to spare for the oil cooler?
> I can reposition my aft/lower cowling and get perhaps cut 3/4 inch
> off my flange to front of ring distance but that still puts me at one
> inch, not 5/8 inch.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hank
>
> On Sep 14, 2005, at 2:16 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Hank, what engine are you using? In athe 912 installation, that much
>> clearance would eliminate the possibility of having the oil cooler
>> in the
>> normal position - under the prop. My clearance is about the 5/8
>> minimum.
>> Typically the prop is not centered in the ring opening, mine is
>> aoubt 2 to
>> 2-1/2 inches above the mating line - upper ring to lower ring.
>>
>> Lowell
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Hank" <hank@hankseidel.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fitting Cowings
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am fitting the cowlings on my Model IV. The manual states a
>>> minimum 5/8 inch from the face of the prop flange to the cowling. I
>>> have 1.75 inches so I am over the minimum but I was wondering if this
>>> is excessive. I can increase the gap between the forward and aft
>>> cowls a bit and take perhaps 1/4 inch off of my clearance but that is
>>> about it. I trimmed the absolute minimum from my front ring cowl so
>>> that is not the problem. What kind of clearances do you all have?
>>>
>>> On another issue. The prop flange is not centered in the ring cowl.
>>> It is parallel to the flange and there does not seem to be any way to
>>> fix the centering as it is really dependent on the position of the
>>> rear cowlings which are attached rather firmly to the fuselage and
>>> cannot be adjusted side to side.
>>>
>>> Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Hank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
First you go to the skystar web site get there phone number then you call
them and order . Very easy to do and only takes a few minutes .
John Perry
-------Original Message-------
From: John Anderson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Pilot guide
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail
com>
How does one procure one - Pilot Guide? I went to the S/Star site but don't
seem to be able to find it.
Tried this but no way to order??
www.skystar.com/options_catalog_pages/books_page.htm
John A.
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperons
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
All,
I know there was a lot of discussion about flapperon settings, and that 30
degrees was too much. So I checked my manual and like everyone else,
couldn't find a number to use. But just today, I was browsing through my
"Kitfox Pilot's Guide" (purchased from Skystar about a year ago - a GREAT
book all about Kitfoxes and how to fly them!) and I found something in there
about the settings. So here it is right from Skystar;
FLAPS & PITCH TRIM (page 51)
Flap operations on the Kitfox 1,2,3, and 4 (and variations)
A flap lever between the seats allows both ailerons to be drooped
simultaneously, thereby causing these surfaces to work as flaps and ailerons
at the same time (thus the term "flapperons"). On the Kitfox Model 1
through Model 4 (including Classic 4 and Kitfox Lite Squared) the flap lever
does not have specific positions, or "notches". The flaps on these Kitfoxes
use a friction system that allows them to be set in any position between 0
degrees and approximately 30 degrees, resulting in a 5 to 7 mph decrease in
stall speed.
When rigging the flaps on early Kitfoxes (pre-series 5), it is important to
set the flap lever so that 0 degrees is achieved with the flap lever about
one inch from full forward. Full deflection will then be achieved with the
flap lever in the full aft position. The actual degree setting is not
relevant. It is best to restrict the flap lever from being pulled aft more
than about 2/3 of it's full travel capability, as the roll rate will be
reduced up to 30% on Model 4 versions of the Kitfox, and up to 50% on Model
1,2,and 3 versions, if the flap lever is pulled full aft. Consider the
"Full flaps" having been achieved when the flap lever is about 2/3 back from
the 0 degree flap position. Some folks even install a stop at the 2/3
deployed position to limit flap travel. The 2/3 position will result in
about 20 degrees of flaps, a minimum landing speed with only a small
reduction in roll rate. Overall roll control is still considerably more
powerful than conventional ailerons. About 90% of the stall speed reduction
is gained when the flap lever is in the 1/2 position. The primary purpose
of Kitfox flaps is to produce lift, not drag. Again, the amount of droop may
vary from plane to plane, and the decrease in stall speed must be determined
through actual flight test.
This was word for word from Skystar. So Kirby's information was correct
when he stated he had 30 degrees on his Model IV. And it is obvious that
they droop differenly plane to plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
And incidentally Kirby, yes flapperons work great for getting off the water.
As Skystar states, they are lift devices, so they do a lot to enhance
takeoff, especially on floats. I used them for years on my Avid when flying
it on floats. When real heavy and hot, the flaperons were the only thing
that will get the airplane off the water. I've heard for years how
flapperons are useless on Avids and Kitfoxes. I've come to believe that
anyone that would say that has never explored (or experienced) the true
operating envelope of their airplane.
Paul Seehafer
Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: landings FLapperons
>Has anyone measured their actual flapperon deflection ?
>Am i the only one that has measured 4 now and all 30 degree to 33
>degree on model IV's
>
>Surely the four i have measured could be all rigged wrong like some
>have claimed but I don't know.
>
>This seems to be a critical issue as some have suggested but no input
>from others ?
>
>I measured the 4th one today and It was 30 + degrees full down
>flapperons. What are yours ?
>
>
>Maybe that Paul Scheefer could commment he seem to be one of the most
>knowledge AVID / Kitfox guys I ahve read yet - especially when it comes
>to seaplanes. I wonder is Paul would agree that Flapperons help?
>
>
>Kirby .........
>
Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Rick, engine shots.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1126746990
John A.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Venturi Vacuum System |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Frank & Phyllis <frank.phyllis@mindspring.com>
Has anyone used a venturi for their vacuum system? I'm considering a
venturi for the AI & DG in my Series 7.
Where did you place the venturi?
Any suggestions/tips?
Frank
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
From NZ, better if I e-mail them. But did most kits come with the guide
added? Perhaps I better have a good search through my junk literature box.
Do not archive
From: "John Perry"
To:
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pilot guide
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry"
First you go to the skystar web site get there phone number then you call
them and order . Very easy to do and only takes a few minutes .
John Perry
-------Original Message-------
From: John Anderson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Pilot guide
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" com>
How does one procure one - Pilot Guide? I went to the S/Star site but don't
seem to be able to find it.
Tried this but no way to order??
www.skystar.com/options_catalog_pages/books_page.htm
John A.
From: "Paul Seehafer"
To:
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperons
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer"
All,
I know there was a lot of discussion about flapperon settings, and that 30
degrees was too much. So I checked my manual and like everyone else,
couldn't find a number to use. But just today, I was browsing through my
"Kitfox Pilot's Guide" (purchased from Skystar about a year ago - a GREAT
book all about Kitfoxes and how to fly them!) and I found something in there
about the settings. So here it is right from Skystar;
FLAPS & PITCH TRIM (page 51)
Flap operations on the Kitfox 1,2,3, and 4 (and variations)
A flap lever between the seats allows both ailerons to be drooped
simultaneously, thereby causing these surfaces to work as flaps and ailerons
at the same time (thus the term "flapperons"). On the Kitfox Model 1
through Model 4 (including Classic 4 and Kitfox Lite Squared) the flap lever
does not have specific positions, or "notches". The flaps on these Kitfoxes
use a friction system that allows them to be set in any position between 0
degrees and approximately 30 degrees, resulting in a 5 to 7 mph decrease in
stall speed.
When rigging the flaps on early Kitfoxes (pre-series 5), it is important to
set the flap lever so that 0 degrees is achieved with the flap lever about
one inch from full forward. Full deflection will then be achieved with the
flap lever in the full aft position. The actual degree setting is not
relevant. It is best to restrict the flap lever from being pulled aft more
than about 2/3 of it's full travel capability, as the roll rate will be
reduced up to 30% on Model 4 versions of the Kitfox, and up to 50% on Model
1,2,and 3 versions, if the flap lever is pulled full aft. Consider the
"Full flaps" having been achieved when the flap lever is about 2/3 back from
the 0 degree flap position. Some folks even install a stop at the 2/3
deployed position to limit flap travel. The 2/3 position will result in
about 20 degrees of flaps, a minimum landing speed with only a small
reduction in roll rate. Overall roll control is still considerably more
powerful than conventional ailerons. About 90% of the stall speed reduction
is gained when the flap lever is in the 1/2 position. The primary purpose
of Kitfox flaps is to produce lift, not drag. Again, the amount of droop may
vary from plane to plane, and the decrease in stall speed must be determined
through actual flight test.
This was word for word from Skystar. So Kirby's information was correct
when he stated he had 30 degrees on his Model IV. And it is obvious that
they droop differenly plane to plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
And incidentally Kirby, yes flapperons work great for getting off the water.
As Skystar states, they are lift devices, so they do a lot to enhance
takeoff, especially on floats. I used them for years on my Avid when flying
it on floats. When real heavy and hot, the flaperons were the only thing
that will get the airplane off the water. I've heard for years how
flapperons are useless on Avids and Kitfoxes. I've come to believe that
anyone that would say that has never explored (or experienced) the true
operating envelope of their airplane.
Paul Seehafer
Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: landings FLapperons
>Has anyone measured their actual flapperon deflection ? Am i the only one
>that has measured 4 now and all 30 degree to 33 degree on model IV's
>
>Surely the four i have measured could be all rigged wrong like some have
>claimed but I don't know.
>
>This seems to be a critical issue as some have suggested but no input from
>others ?
>
>I measured the 4th one today and It was 30 + degrees full down flapperons.
>What are yours ?
>
>
>Maybe that Paul Scheefer could commment he seem to be one of the most
>knowledge AVID / Kitfox guys I ahve read yet - especially when it comes to
>seaplanes. I wonder is Paul would agree that Flapperons help?
>
>
>Kirby .........
>
Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine shots |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
Beautiful i will trade you straight across for my 582 setup if you want
lol . Very nice and clean I am envious . Just curious what kind of dollars
do you figure you have into the engine installation.
John Perry
-------Original Message-------
From: John Anderson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine shots
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail
com>
Rick, engine shots.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?actionview&epoch1126746990
John A.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi Vacuum System |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
we have a venturi vacuum system on a kitfox V. It was located on the gear
under the pilots seat but in our drag reduction program we put a big fillet
there and moved the venturi outboard on the upper end of the Grove landing gear
and now it gets significant propwash and is up an running at 4inches Hg on
takeoff. at cruise we get 4.5 inches Hg. Before moving it was only about 3
inches Hg. We took it off before the drag reduction kit and it costs us about 4
mph at 4700 rpm and 24.7 in MAP. Havent' tried flight with out it in new
location.
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