Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:00 AM - Re: Engine shots (John Anderson)
2. 04:26 AM - Re: Venturi Vacuum System (Fox5flyer)
3. 04:34 AM - Re: Engine shots (Fox5flyer)
4. 05:01 AM - Spoilers - More Kitfox Pilot Guide information (Paul Seehafer)
5. 07:08 AM - Re: Venturi Vacuum System (wwillyard@aol.com)
6. 08:31 AM - Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings (Michael Gibbs)
7. 10:50 AM - Re: Venturi Vacuum System (AMuller589@aol.com)
8. 11:33 AM - Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings FLapperons (Paul Seehafer)
9. 12:12 PM - Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings FLapperons (jdmcbean)
10. 12:21 PM - Re: Skystars facts about flaperons (Michel Verheughe)
11. 12:42 PM - Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings FLapperons (Don Smythe)
12. 01:07 PM - Re: flaperon controls (Marco Menezes)
13. 01:20 PM - Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings FLapperons (kitfoxjunky)
14. 03:14 PM - Re: Venturi Vacuum System (Ron Liebmann)
15. 04:46 PM - Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings FLapperons (Brett Walmsley)
16. 04:48 PM - Trouble Keeping Upholstery Attached to Frame (Jimmie Blackwell)
17. 05:03 PM - Re Kitfox Pilots Guide by Ed Downs (Rex & Jan Shaw)
18. 05:11 PM - "Rex & Jan Shaw" (RV73HL@aol.com)
19. 05:15 PM - Re: Trouble Keeping Upholstery Attached to Frame (Andrew Matthaey)
20. 07:08 PM - Re: "Rex & Jan Shaw" (Len Shorethose)
21. 07:48 PM - Re: "Rex & Jan Shaw" (John Anderson)
22. 10:27 PM - Re: "Rex & Jan Shaw" (ron schick)
23. 11:18 PM - Re: "Rex & Jan Shaw" (Lowell Fitt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine shots |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thank you John, well my good lady just saw your question and said THOUSANDS
ha ha. But about $2000NZ ( at .70cent US) Mostly time in fact twic as long
as the plane..JohnA.
From: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine shots
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
Beautiful i will trade you straight across for my 582 setup if you want
lol . Very nice and clean I am envious . Just curious what kind of dollars
do you figure you have into the engine installation.
John Perry
-------Original Message-------
From: John Anderson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine shots
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail
com>
Rick, engine shots.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?actionview&epoch1126746990
John A.
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi Vacuum System |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Four mph seems like a pretty big price. Would you mind putting a photo of
it on Sportflight.com/uploader please? I'd like to see it.
Thanks,
Deke
-> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
>
> we have a venturi vacuum system on a kitfox V. It was located on the gear
> under the pilots seat but in our drag reduction program we put a big
fillet
> there and moved the venturi outboard on the upper end of the Grove landing
gear
> and now it gets significant propwash and is up an running at 4inches Hg on
> takeoff. at cruise we get 4.5 inches Hg. Before moving it was only about 3
> inches Hg. We took it off before the drag reduction kit and it costs us
about 4
> mph at 4700 rpm and 24.7 in MAP. Havent' tried flight with out it in new
> location.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine shots |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Beautiful job John. Keep us posted as your testing goes.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine shots
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
<janderson412@hotmail.com>
>
> Thank you John, well my good lady just saw your question and said
THOUSANDS
> ha ha. But about $2000NZ ( at .70cent US) Mostly time in fact twic as long
> as the plane..JohnA.
>
>
> From: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine shots
> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:50:46 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
>
> Beautiful i will trade you straight across for my 582 setup if you want
> lol . Very nice and clean I am envious . Just curious what kind of dollars
> do you figure you have into the engine installation.
>
> John Perry
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: John Anderson
> Date: 09/14/05 20:08:32
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine shots
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail
> com>
>
> Rick, engine shots.
> http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?actionview&epoch1126746990
>
> John A.
>
>
> Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
> http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Spoilers - More Kitfox Pilot Guide information |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Ok Guys (and gals),
Here's the next tidbit of info out of the Kitfox Pilot's Guide that I'd bet
most aren't aware of;
KITFOX LITE SQUARED SPOILERS (page 54)
The flaperons on the Kitfox Lite Squared offer an additional capability that
is quite unique. The rigging instructions show you how to set the flaps up
so that they move UP together, providing you with "recessed" flaps. By
pushing the flap lever forward into your "SPOILER" position, the flaps serve
to "dump" lift off the wings and allow you to obtain a high rate of descent
without changing the pitch attitude or pitch feel. The spoiler effect
allows the pilot to actually control the lift on the wing, resulting in a
form of Direct Lift Control. DLC is used on advanced jet transport aircraft
to assist them in making automatic landings. The technology works
remarkably well on the Kitfox Lite Squared.
Typically, the Kitfox Lite Squared glides with a sink rate of 400 to 500 fpm
at 55 to 60 mph. If you are high on an approach, your customary choices are
to make a go-around, extend full flaps to increase the approach angle (sink
rate goes to about 700 fpm), or slip (sink rate can go to over 1,000 fpm).
The use of flaps or a slip requires retrimming or the use of controls to
affect the slip and maintain the approach speed. A slip can be very
disquieting to an uninitiated passenger. Simply pushing the flap lever
forward to the SPOILER position decreases the lift on the wing and results
in a rate of sink 800 to 900 fpm, without a change in pitch or trim feel.
The airplane just sinks. Pulling the flap lever back to the previous
setting simply stops the sink, immediately. Try it, you'll like it! One
word of caution: DO NOT ATTEMPT TO TAKEOFF OR CLIMB WITH THE FLAP LEVER IN
THE SPOILER POSITION. While the Kitfox will takeoff and climb, its
performance will be significantly reduced.
The Kitfox's flaperon system is unique with roll control, flaps, and pitch
trim all rolled into one. Go slowly, as you learn to fly your plane, and
carefully evaluate this control system, a step at a time. It offers several
powerful advantages and a short learning curve.
(end of section)
This is a wonderful feature very few aircraft can utilize as easily as a
Kitfox. Obviously, this is a feature one would have to be careful using, but
it makes perfect sense to have as long as you have the ability to manage the
system properly so as to operate it safely .
I personally have been thinking about rigging my model IV flapperons this
way if it is possible to do (along with max flap limits for off-water
peformance). Can anyone with a Lite Squared builders book send me a copy of
that section? Or maybe it can be posted on sportflight.com for all of us to
see?
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi Vacuum System |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: wwillyard@aol.com
>Has anyone used a venturi for their vacuum system?
I tried a venturi on my Classic IV. I mounted venturi on the bottom
of the radiator scoop. I could not get enough vacuum to operatemy gyros.
I had to install a vacuum pump.
Bill W.
Classic IV 912
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings |
FLapperons
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net> FLapperons
>This was word for word from Skystar ["Kitfox Pilot's Guide"]. So
>Kirby's information was correct when he stated he had 30 degrees on
>his Model IV. And it is obvious that they droop differenly plane to
>plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
Paul,
The pilot's guide is certainly not the source for correct
construction procedure. Yesterday Murle Williams showed me the
bulletin issued by SkyStar calling for the flap handle limiter (stop)
you mentioned to be installed and that it should limit maximum
extension to 22 degrees.
If you like, I'll go get the bulletin and page numbers for you.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi Vacuum System |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
We don't know the cost in speed for the new venturi locastion at the upper
outside of the L/G yet but will post it when we finish installing new equipment
( includes Eggenfellner fuel pressure regulator, trim assist, and voirtex
generators)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings FLapperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Michael,
Interesting point. But I wonder how many of us have airplanes and never saw
that bulletin? Without the bulletin, one would tend to believe what the
manufacturer writes in a Pilot Guide when that is all the information he can
find on the specific subject. Especially when the builders manual doesn't
give any specifics. Incidentally, does that bulletin say why it is limiting
it to 22 degrees?
I would definitely suggest posting that bulletin of sportflight and any
others the rest of us aren't aware of.
Paul Seehafer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibbs FLapperons" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings
FLapperons
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> FLapperons
>
>>This was word for word from Skystar ["Kitfox Pilot's Guide"]. So
>>Kirby's information was correct when he stated he had 30 degrees on
>>his Model IV. And it is obvious that they droop differenly plane to
>>plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
>
> Paul,
>
> The pilot's guide is certainly not the source for correct
> construction procedure. Yesterday Murle Williams showed me the
> bulletin issued by SkyStar calling for the flap handle limiter (stop)
> you mentioned to be installed and that it should limit maximum
> extension to 22 degrees.
>
> If you like, I'll go get the bulletin and page numbers for you.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings FLapperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
OK..
Series 5, 6 and 7 manuals.. I haven't reviewed the older IV manual but I'm
certain the new IV manual has it....
Final assembly section: for reference only...
Aileron deflection: up 28 degrees / down 15 degrees
Flap deployment: 1st notch = 1.5 degrees, 2nd notch = 11 degrees, 3rd notch
= 22 degrees.
Again, I have not reviewed a IV manual in some time... but same wing, same
flaperon.. I would imagine the same limits... 22 degrees.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Seehafer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings
FLapperons
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Michael,
Interesting point. But I wonder how many of us have airplanes and never saw
that bulletin? Without the bulletin, one would tend to believe what the
manufacturer writes in a Pilot Guide when that is all the information he can
find on the specific subject. Especially when the builders manual doesn't
give any specifics. Incidentally, does that bulletin say why it is limiting
it to 22 degrees?
I would definitely suggest posting that bulletin of sportflight and any
others the rest of us aren't aware of.
Paul Seehafer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibbs FLapperons" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings
FLapperons
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> FLapperons
>
>>This was word for word from Skystar ["Kitfox Pilot's Guide"]. So
>>Kirby's information was correct when he stated he had 30 degrees on
>>his Model IV. And it is obvious that they droop differenly plane to
>>plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
>
> Paul,
>
> The pilot's guide is certainly not the source for correct
> construction procedure. Yesterday Murle Williams showed me the
> bulletin issued by SkyStar calling for the flap handle limiter (stop)
> you mentioned to be installed and that it should limit maximum
> extension to 22 degrees.
>
> If you like, I'll go get the bulletin and page numbers for you.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Skystars facts about flaperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Paul Seehafer wrote:
> Incidentally, does that bulletin say why it is limiting it to 22 degrees?
Er, ... guys, this is the third time I write this:
The Kitfox Owner Manual for Model III, printed by Denney Aerocraft Company,
says at page 7: "You should build a stop for the flaps handle to restrict flap
deflection to 23 degrees. Deflection beyond 23 degrees tend to restrict aileron
travel and effectiveness. Exercise caution on final approach in gusty or
crosswind conditions not to use so much flaps that aileron effectiveness is
diminished." [end quote]
I wrote that to Kirby, adding that I understand it is for the model III and
that later models have an entirely different type of flaperon. I also added
that the builder had noted that he had limited the flaps travel to a
conservative ten degrees. I measured the same on both annuals since I bought
the plane. My experience with flaps on (only 10 degrees) is that the plane
requires a good pull on the stick and that roll control was sluggish.
I am not out to prove anything nor contradict anyone. I am glad we talk about
this because my sole interest is to learn.
Your humble rookie,
Michel
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings FLapperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
I haven't been following this thread too close but will give my
experience using "full" flaps. My NASA Eng buddy was flying my fox one day
and decided to use flaps. As he was turning left on final, he added full
flaps. The plane went into a strange side slip to the right. The more he
added left aileron, the worse the condition got. He took off the flaps,
landed normal and headed back to the hanger for his evaluation as to, "what
the heck caused that"?
Once in the hanger, he added full flaps with left stick. The left
flaperon was just about zero angle while the right flaperon was darn near
pointing straight down to the ground. The right flaperon was acting as a
huge air brake while the left one was doing nothing. Therefore, a very
uncoordinated right turn resulted when a left turn was initiated and full
flaps.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings
FLapperons
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
> Michael,
>
> Interesting point. But I wonder how many of us have airplanes and never
> saw
> that bulletin? Without the bulletin, one would tend to believe what the
> manufacturer writes in a Pilot Guide when that is all the information he
> can
> find on the specific subject. Especially when the builders manual doesn't
> give any specifics. Incidentally, does that bulletin say why it is
> limiting
> it to 22 degrees?
>
> I would definitely suggest posting that bulletin of sportflight and any
> others the rest of us aren't aware of.
>
> Paul Seehafer
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibbs FLapperons" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings
> FLapperons
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>> FLapperons
>>
>>>This was word for word from Skystar ["Kitfox Pilot's Guide"]. So
>>>Kirby's information was correct when he stated he had 30 degrees on
>>>his Model IV. And it is obvious that they droop differenly plane to
>>>plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> The pilot's guide is certainly not the source for correct
>> construction procedure. Yesterday Murle Williams showed me the
>> bulletin issued by SkyStar calling for the flap handle limiter (stop)
>> you mentioned to be installed and that it should limit maximum
>> extension to 22 degrees.
>>
>> If you like, I'll go get the bulletin and page numbers for you.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: flaperon controls |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
While we're on the subject of flaperons, does anybody have a good design for an
effective flap control device that locks the lever at, say . . . 10, 15 and 22
degrees? Leather washers aren't doing the job. I downloaded one set of plans
from sportflight but drawings are so fuzzy as to be illegible.
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
Paul Seehafer wrote:
> Incidentally, does that bulletin say why it is limiting it to 22 degrees?
Er, ... guys, this is the third time I write this:
The Kitfox Owner Manual for Model III, printed by Denney Aerocraft Company,
says at page 7: "You should build a stop for the flaps handle to restrict flap
deflection to 23 degrees. Deflection beyond 23 degrees tend to restrict aileron
travel and effectiveness. Exercise caution on final approach in gusty or
crosswind conditions not to use so much flaps that aileron effectiveness is
diminished." [end quote]
I wrote that to Kirby, adding that I understand it is for the model III and
that later models have an entirely different type of flaperon. I also added
that the builder had noted that he had limited the flaps travel to a
conservative ten degrees. I measured the same on both annuals since I bought
the plane. My experience with flaps on (only 10 degrees) is that the plane
requires a good pull on the stick and that roll control was sluggish.
I am not out to prove anything nor contradict anyone. I am glad we talk about
this because my sole interest is to learn.
Your humble rookie,
Michel
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings FLapperons |
Serialize complete at 09/15/2005 04:20:09 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Cool. Bet that would grab your attention.
I too have a model IV. No stop at 22 degrees, it goes right to 30 degrees.
I measured the full deflection with an inclinometer. I will try this out
tomorrow (on the ground) and report back.
For the record..I use 1/2 flap on almost every landing.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
"Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
09/15/2005 03:41 PM
Please respond to kitfox-list
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV:
landings FLapperons
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
I haven't been following this thread too close but will give my
experience using "full" flaps. My NASA Eng buddy was flying my fox one
day
and decided to use flaps. As he was turning left on final, he added full
flaps. The plane went into a strange side slip to the right. The more he
added left aileron, the worse the condition got. He took off the flaps,
landed normal and headed back to the hanger for his evaluation as to,
"what
the heck caused that"?
Once in the hanger, he added full flaps with left stick. The left
flaperon was just about zero angle while the right flaperon was darn near
pointing straight down to the ground. The right flaperon was acting as
a
huge air brake while the left one was doing nothing. Therefore, a very
uncoordinated right turn resulted when a left turn was initiated and full
flaps.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings
FLapperons
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
> Michael,
>
> Interesting point. But I wonder how many of us have airplanes and never
> saw
> that bulletin? Without the bulletin, one would tend to believe what the
> manufacturer writes in a Pilot Guide when that is all the information he
> can
> find on the specific subject. Especially when the builders manual
doesn't
> give any specifics. Incidentally, does that bulletin say why it is
> limiting
> it to 22 degrees?
>
> I would definitely suggest posting that bulletin of sportflight and any
> others the rest of us aren't aware of.
>
> Paul Seehafer
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibbs FLapperons" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings
> FLapperons
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>> FLapperons
>>
>>>This was word for word from Skystar ["Kitfox Pilot's Guide"]. So
>>>Kirby's information was correct when he stated he had 30 degrees on
>>>his Model IV. And it is obvious that they droop differenly plane to
>>>plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> The pilot's guide is certainly not the source for correct
>> construction procedure. Yesterday Murle Williams showed me the
>> bulletin issued by SkyStar calling for the flap handle limiter (stop)
>> you mentioned to be installed and that it should limit maximum
>> extension to 22 degrees.
>>
>> If you like, I'll go get the bulletin and page numbers for you.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi Vacuum System |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
I have had an 8" vacuum venturi on my Fox since 1992 and it works great.
Originally it operated an RC Allen DG & Horizon but I have since taken the
DG out of the panel and use just the Horizon. The venturi is mounted on the
underside of the fuselage forward of the radiator and near the right landing
gear leg.
Ron N55KF
>
>>Has anyone used a venturi for their vacuum system?
> I tried a venturi on my Classic IV. I mounted venturi on the bottom
> of the radiator scoop. I could not get enough vacuum to operatemy gyros.
> I had to install a vacuum pump.
>
> Bill W.
> Classic IV 912
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings FLapperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <N93HJ@numail.org>
John,
I have the current IV manual. Your #s are correct. It also addresses the
spoiler function. I have mine set so that full aft is 22+ and full forward
is around 5-
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings
FLapperons
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> OK..
>
> Series 5, 6 and 7 manuals.. I haven't reviewed the older IV manual but
> I'm
> certain the new IV manual has it....
>
> Final assembly section: for reference only...
>
> Aileron deflection: up 28 degrees / down 15 degrees
>
> Flap deployment: 1st notch = 1.5 degrees, 2nd notch = 11 degrees, 3rd
> notch
> = 22 degrees.
>
> Again, I have not reviewed a IV manual in some time... but same wing, same
> flaperon.. I would imagine the same limits... 22 degrees.
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Seehafer
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings
> FLapperons
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
> Michael,
>
> Interesting point. But I wonder how many of us have airplanes and never
> saw
> that bulletin? Without the bulletin, one would tend to believe what the
> manufacturer writes in a Pilot Guide when that is all the information he
> can
> find on the specific subject. Especially when the builders manual doesn't
> give any specifics. Incidentally, does that bulletin say why it is
> limiting
> it to 22 degrees?
>
> I would definitely suggest posting that bulletin of sportflight and any
> others the rest of us aren't aware of.
>
> Paul Seehafer
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibbs FLapperons" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystars facts about flaperonsSV: landings
> FLapperons
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>> FLapperons
>>
>>>This was word for word from Skystar ["Kitfox Pilot's Guide"]. So
>>>Kirby's information was correct when he stated he had 30 degrees on
>>>his Model IV. And it is obvious that they droop differenly plane to
>>>plane, but 30 degrees is their end number.
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> The pilot's guide is certainly not the source for correct
>> construction procedure. Yesterday Murle Williams showed me the
>> bulletin issued by SkyStar calling for the flap handle limiter (stop)
>> you mentioned to be installed and that it should limit maximum
>> extension to 22 degrees.
>>
>> If you like, I'll go get the bulletin and page numbers for you.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Trouble Keeping Upholstery Attached to Frame |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
My Model IV is kept in a metal hangar in central Texas. Hot to say the least.
During the summer my upholstery comes loose because the glue on the velcro gets
weak from the Texas heat. Hoping that someone has found a glue that will stand
up to the heat or perhaps a different method of attaching the upholstery.
Jimmie
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re Kitfox Pilots Guide by Ed Downs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
How does one procure one - Pilot Guide? I went to the S/Star site but don't
seem to be able to find it.
Tried this but no way to order??
www.skystar.com/options_catalog_pages/books_page.htm
John A.
Guys this is a very usefull book at very little cost. I suggest it is well
worth everyone getting. Anyway I bought mine at least a year ago when
Skystar had their old website that was much better than this new one. I
wonder why they changed ? Anyway as John says you could just phone up and
order but if you are in say New Zealand or like me in Australia you might be
reluctant to phone the USA. I just E'mailed Dave Morris at Skystar and he
did it all by E'mail for me on my credit card. Yes I know you aren't sending
your card details by a secure site so what I did and always do in this
situation is send my card details broken up into 2 or 3 different E'mails.
I've never had a problem this way. I guess Skystar are struggling as we all
know but they should improve their website and have a secure link. When I
bought my book it was only $19.95 US.
Rex
Australia.
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RV73HL@aol.com
"Rex & Jan Shaw" _rexjan@bigpond.com_ (mailto:rexjan@bigpond.com)
Fill me in...I'm new...Is service from Sksystar not too good, or what?
Thanks. Howard
Message 19
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| Subject: | Trouble Keeping Upholstery Attached to Frame |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
I had the same problem - in NH...I went to AutoZone and bought a glue called
Automotive Goop. It works great - no problems all summer.
Andrew
>From: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Trouble Keeping Upholstery Attached to Frame
>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:49:14 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
>My Model IV is kept in a metal hangar in central Texas. Hot to say the
>least. During the summer my upholstery comes loose because the glue on the
>velcro gets weak from the Texas heat. Hoping that someone has found a glue
>that will stand up to the heat or perhaps a different method of attaching
>the upholstery.
>
>Jimmie
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 20
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose" <toolowterrain@gmail.com>
Howard,
I can relate my most recent experiences from Skystar.
I bought a Series 5 in 1999 and had nothing but great service from
Skystar...They were always available for my numerous questions and there was
never a problem getting any parts...All in all, I was very satisfied.
As most of the List members know, Skystar has experienced some financial
difficulties the past couple of years and their service has reflected that.
Many List members have voiced their concerns and complaints about the
quality of service they have received. The complaints have died down in the
past few months for whatever reason.
In April of this year I sold my Series 5 and shortly thereafter ordered a
Series 7. I was hesitant to place an order with Skystar knowing what others
had experienced in the preceding year but I decided to give them a chance.
I was told to expect a June delivery date. In mid-June I began attempting
to get some delivery info about my kit. Well, in early July I finally got a
response from them that it would be delivered in late July. The excuse was
that they were behind on all the orders from Sun 'n, Fun and Oshkosh.
In late July I again tried to get in touch with them to no avail. Finally
in August I was told it would be delivered very soon! It's now
mid-September and I still have no kit! The last excuse was that they have
been training several new people and the production schedule is way behind
because of it.
So to answer your question, the service has deteriorated considerably. My
biggest complaint is the total lack of communication from them. My e-mail
always go unanswered. My phone calls rarely get returned. It's been
frustrating. You'd think a company would treat it's long time customers a
little better.
I'm sure many others have had better service and others have had
worse....I'm just relating my personal experiences....Hopefully it will
improve.
Hope this helps a little....
Len Shorethose
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV73HL@aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: RV73HL@aol.com
>
> "Rex & Jan Shaw" _rexjan@bigpond.com_ (mailto:rexjan@bigpond.com)
>
> Fill me in...I'm new...Is service from Sksystar not too good, or what?
>
> Thanks. Howard
>
>
>
Message 21
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Yes, good comunication costs so little but can be worth so much eh. Had they
been honest told you no delivery until October, you would prob have
grummbled a little but all would have been forgiven when it turned up in
Sept eh. Lesson they need to learn.. ~j~
Don't archive.
From: "Len Shorethose" <toolowterrain@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose"
<toolowterrain@gmail.com>
Howard,
I can relate my most recent experiences from Skystar.
I bought a Series 5 in 1999 and had nothing but great service from
Skystar...They were always available for my numerous questions and there was
never a problem getting any parts...All in all, I was very satisfied.
As most of the List members know, Skystar has experienced some financial
difficulties the past couple of years and their service has reflected that.
Many List members have voiced their concerns and complaints about the
quality of service they have received. The complaints have died down in the
past few months for whatever reason.
In April of this year I sold my Series 5 and shortly thereafter ordered a
Series 7. I was hesitant to place an order with Skystar knowing what others
had experienced in the preceding year but I decided to give them a chance.
I was told to expect a June delivery date. In mid-June I began attempting
to get some delivery info about my kit. Well, in early July I finally got a
response from them that it would be delivered in late July. The excuse was
that they were behind on all the orders from Sun 'n, Fun and Oshkosh.
In late July I again tried to get in touch with them to no avail. Finally
in August I was told it would be delivered very soon! It's now
mid-September and I still have no kit! The last excuse was that they have
been training several new people and the production schedule is way behind
because of it.
So to answer your question, the service has deteriorated considerably. My
biggest complaint is the total lack of communication from them. My e-mail
always go unanswered. My phone calls rarely get returned. It's been
frustrating. You'd think a company would treat it's long time customers a
little better.
I'm sure many others have had better service and others have had
worse....I'm just relating my personal experiences....Hopefully it will
improve.
Hope this helps a little....
Len Shorethose
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV73HL@aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RV73HL@aol.com
>
>"Rex & Jan Shaw" _rexjan@bigpond.com_ (mailto:rexjan@bigpond.com)
>
>Fill me in...I'm new...Is service from Sksystar not too good, or what?
>
>Thanks. Howard
>
>
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Message 22
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Howard I ordered my polystits cover kit from Skystar knowing that it would
come slower than other sources. To give them the business is worth the wait
for me. The wait has allowed me to add to my order which I did yesterday,
and on my fourth try got through and confirmed the added parts were with the
order today.
Very busy people on limited resources. They will survive with our help.
Hold that thought next time we need parts beyond our capabilities of
fabrication. I'm glad they are there.
Ron NB Ore N541KF (maybe flying next spring)
PS I waited in Walmart for 35 minutes tonight. Way more time than phoning
Skystar.
>From: RV73HL@aol.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com> Date: Thu, 15
>Sep 2005 20:10:29 EDT
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RV73HL@aol.com
>
>"Rex & Jan Shaw" _rexjan@bigpond.com_ (mailto:rexjan@bigpond.com)
>
>Fill me in...I'm new...Is service from Sksystar not too good, or what?
>
>Thanks. Howard
>
>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 23
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Skystar's service should be fine. A good friend of mine is there now and is
a real Kitfox junkie. Incidentally, the secure site is in the plans, but
that is all I know.
Give a call and ask for Mark.
For John, My wife flies to Sydney frequently and she buys an international
phone card which allows us to have regular phone conversations at very
little cost - I am California. She is flying out today and gave me orders
to have my phone on my belt this weekend. If that is not possible where you
reside, contact me of list and I will get the details and order one for you
and arrange its delivery.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV73HL@aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: RV73HL@aol.com
>
> "Rex & Jan Shaw" _rexjan@bigpond.com_ (mailto:rexjan@bigpond.com)
>
> Fill me in...I'm new...Is service from Sksystar not too good, or what?
>
> Thanks. Howard
>
>
>
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