Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:06 AM - Re: Re: Engine Stuff (aerocon1@telusplanet.net)
2. 03:36 AM - Re: Model 4 tailspring (Don Smythe)
3. 07:51 AM - Great engine info . how does one properly change the oil in the small Tank? (Aerobatics@aol.com)
4. 08:16 AM - Re: Model 4 tailspring (jdmcbean)
5. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: Engine Stuff (Guy Buchanan)
6. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: Engine Stuff (Guy Buchanan)
7. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: Engine Stuff (Don Smythe)
8. 11:10 AM - Re: replacing landing gear (jablackwell)
9. 12:58 PM - What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss (Harris, Robert)
10. 01:26 PM - Re: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss ing pages (eccles)
11. 01:36 PM - Kitfox ADs (John Anderson)
12. 01:58 PM - Re: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of (Harris, Robert)
13. 02:41 PM - Re: Kitfox ADs (Dee Young)
14. 04:03 PM - Re: Kitfox ADs (Brett Walmsley)
15. 04:51 PM - Nose over (Rex & Jan Shaw)
16. 05:13 PM - Re: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Seri es V? reMiss ing pages (eccles)
17. 06:11 PM - Re: Kitfox ADs (Dee Young)
18. 07:01 PM - Re: Kitfox ADs (John Anderson)
19. 11:34 PM - New Weight & Balance DVD (Jon Croke)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Stuff |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: aerocon1@telusplanet.net
Hi Guy et al....
To answer youtr first question:
Regardless of how carefull one can be a two stroke engine should never be
started or run without a load. First, even a very little throttle input can
cause a major over revving of the engine... With no load the engine could be
running at exceptionally high rpm with very little throttle input... This
means lots of movement with little lubrication.. This could result in some
damaged pistons and bearings.
re second question:
In a perfect world the vent line should run up hill all the way to the
expansion tank (filler). The vent is there to take gasses off cylinder hear.
Unless the filler is quite a bit lower than the vent the gasses should still
clear the line and push the gasses into the expansion tank. No valve is
necesary and really not a good idea. Even though you get all the air out of
the cylinder head, you will still create gasses as the cyl. head will have
some hot spots that will cause boiling off of coolant. You need a place for
all that gas to go.
re: third question:
Re pre lubing the engine....
How long has the engine sat without been used. If the engine is over 5 years
old and there has been no additional corrosion protection done, it should be
inspected by a knowledgeable service tech. We see a few engines every year
that corrosion has destroyed while sitting on a kit (or even in the factory
box....the factory corrosion protection is only good for a couple of years)
while the plane is under construction. A prolonged storage periods with little
or no corrosion protection and lead to short lifespan of any ball
bearing...and your 582 has lots of them.
Aside from the above....there is no pre-lubing required. As long as the oil
injection system has been set up properly and has been bled and you are
running a 1% oil solutuion in the tank you are set to go.
Hope this info helps
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
St. Albert, Ab. Can
Quoting John Stoner <john@dakotacubaircraft.com>:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Stoner"
> <john@dakotacubaircraft.com>
>
> Hello Guy,
> I'll start off with some thoughts on your questions:
>
> 1. Can / should I run my 582 / C / RK400 clutch without the prop installed?
>
> After a recent overhaul I started and ran my 582 / C with no prop to
> correctly set the oil injector with an unloaded engine at idle. Mine does
> not have the RK400 clutch, but if I understand the clutch mechanism the
> engine will start and idle with no prop load anyway. I was very careful to
> limit the no-load RPM to less than 3,000.
>
> 2. My 582 grey head head vent runs up and aft to the fill. It's decidedly
> higher than the head or the fill. I therefore don't see how it will ever
> clear of air. I'm thinking of putting a valve at the top to allow me to
> open it to air to vent until coolant comes out, and then shut it. Is that
> how it would work?
>
> On my system (KF III, 582) the head vent line connects to the fill lower
> than the overflow outlet on the fill. I think that this is all that is
> necessary. When the engine is running a small amount of coolant is always
> flowing through this vent line and back into the system.
>
> 3. How do you pre-lube a 2-stroke? I'll have oil in the reservoir and that
> system bled. I'll have oil in the fuel too. Is that all I need? Or do I
> need to somehow pre-oil the engine? (It's been sitting for years.) Is there
> any benefit to pulling the plugs and cranking unloaded at least until fuel
> starts entering the engine? (I've only got the Mikuni fuel pump. I presume
> it will take quite a bit of cranking to get the engine running, even with
> the choke.)
>
> There is no need to pre-oil the engine. Follow manual to bleed system,
> premix for the first tank, and light the fire. If you want to be over
> cautious and do some pre oiling, just mix a small amount of fuel extra rich
> with oil and squirt it into the carbs with a small oil pump can when you
> first crank the engine (air filters removed for this). This priming into
> the carbs is a good way to instatly start the engine without a lot of
> cranking. (BE SURE TO HAVE A FIRE EXTINGUISHER HANDY, as you should at
> every engine start and every fueling event.)
>
> If you fly in cold country you may want to toss the chokes and install a
> primer. In my before primer days, a couple of times the battery did not
> hold enough charge to start the engine with the chokes. With the choke
> controls gone and primer in place the engine has never failed to start
> instantly, when really cold I keep it running for the first 30 seconds or so
>
> by pumping the primer slowly until it warms enough to run on its own.
>
> Regards,
> John Stoner
> KF III, 582
> Alaska
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Model 4 tailspring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
John,
Is there a story about why Grove doesn't offer the tail spring anymore.
That's the first I've heard about it....
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
> Unfortunately Grove no longer offers the Aluminum Tail Wheel Spring.....
Message 3
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| Subject: | Great engine info . how does one properly change the oil |
in the small Tank?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Model 4 tailspring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
I'm sure there is a story... If there were enough interest I may be able to
get a volume run....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 4 tailspring
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
John,
Is there a story about why Grove doesn't offer the tail spring anymore.
That's the first I've heard about it....
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
> Unfortunately Grove no longer offers the Aluminum Tail Wheel Spring.....
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Stuff |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 05:58 PM 10/1/2005, you wrote:
> In my before primer days, a couple of times the battery did not
>hold enough charge to start the engine with the chokes.
John,
Thank you for your thorough information. I'm hoping that with the
clutch I can have a much lower idle, which I understand makes the choke
more effective. I will probably eventually fly in the cold. If it doesn't
work I'll install the primer.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Stuff |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 12:05 AM 10/2/2005, you wrote:
>How long has the engine sat without been used. If the engine is over 5 years
>old and there has been no additional corrosion protection done, it should be
>inspected by a knowledgeable service tech.
Bob,
The engine was broken in and pickled by you in 2001. Since then
it's been un-sealed in fairly high humidity conditions. I'd like to get my
installation looked at anyway, but am in San Diego. Do you know of anyone
reputable in the way of Rotax 582's in Southern California? Is there a
simple check I can do?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Stuff |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Guy,
I found the choke to be just about useless compared to the primer. I
have both but backed off the adjustment linkage on the choke so to make sure
it stays closed (haven't used it at all in 2-3 years). I get real good/fast
starts by hitting the primer about 4 times (during pre-flight) and then hand
rolling the prop through one compression (gets the rotary valve out of the
way). Then, hit the primer about twice more. This puts a little fuel in
both cylinders. Then, leave the primer out and push in as soon as the
engine starts. Fires up real good compared to other methods I've tried.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message ----- > more effective. I will probably eventually
fly in the cold. If it doesn't
> work I'll install the primer.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: replacing landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: " jablackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
I used the same method when changing to Grove gear. When my
helper got tired of holding the tail down I tied a weight to the
tail wheel. I made the top of the sawhorse that contacts the
bottom of the fuselage about 6" wide and put thick carpeting on
top. This is also a handy way of changing tires or working on
wheels.
Jimmie
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
<lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I made a short sawhorse like support and by lifting the tail
another person
>was able to insert it under the lift strud carry through and then
by putting
>a little more weight on the tail I could lift the mains off the
ground.
>Sort of like a teeter totter.
>
>Lowell
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <jgh54@netscape.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: replacing landing gear
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: <jgh54@netscape.com>
>>
>> what is best way to lift kf5 so i can replace landing gear,
friend
>> suggested jacking at wing strut attachment looks to me that
would put to
>> much weightforward and plane would tip onto nose
>>
>> Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
Message 9
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|
ing pages
| Subject: | What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss |
ing pages
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi Steve,
I have a complete Chapter 10 which I'm going to mail to Joel, however my
manual is not complete and maybe you could help me. I'd be more than happy
to pay for your expenses.
What are the topics of chapters 7, 8 and 9 in the series V Manual and how
many pages is each chapter? (I have a chapter about fabric covering but it
is not numbered and wondered if that is chapter 7, 8 or 9.
Robert
N200KF/0200 Series V
San Diego
Message 10
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| Subject: | What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? |
reMiss ing pages
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
Robert
In my chapter 7 it is about the landing gear, 10 pages,, chapter 8 is the
rotax smooth cowling install along with the firewall..16 pages in addition 3
pages for the continental install,, In my manual the fabric chapter doesn't
really have a number but the next chapter is 10 so i think that it must be
9,, 25 pages,, but since i used stits process i just followed there
manual,,, anything that you need just let me know glad to be of assistance
Steve
series 5 driver
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harris,
Robert
Subject: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series
V? reMiss ing pages
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi Steve,
I have a complete Chapter 10 which I'm going to mail to Joel, however my
manual is not complete and maybe you could help me. I'd be more than happy
to pay for your expenses.
What are the topics of chapters 7, 8 and 9 in the series V Manual and how
many pages is each chapter? (I have a chapter about fabric covering but it
is not numbered and wondered if that is chapter 7, 8 or 9.
Robert
N200KF/0200 Series V
San Diego
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Hi folks, is there a full list of Kitfox AD bulletins on the web somewhere
petaining maily to the Series 5? Thanks, John A.
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
Message 12
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Seri es V? reMiss ing pages
| Subject: | What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of |
Seri es V? reMiss ing pages
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Steve thanks for your help. I'll see if Joel can mail me chapter 7 and
chapter 8 including the continental pages. If he can't I'll take you up on
your offer. Steve, e-mail me off line and I'll give you 2005 TurboTax for
your help.
Robert
Robert_harris@intuit.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eccles
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series
V? reMiss ing pages
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
Robert
In my chapter 7 it is about the landing gear, 10 pages,, chapter 8 is the
rotax smooth cowling install along with the firewall..16 pages in addition 3
pages for the continental install,, In my manual the fabric chapter doesn't
really have a number but the next chapter is 10 so i think that it must be
9,, 25 pages,, but since i used stits process i just followed there
manual,,, anything that you need just let me know glad to be of assistance
Steve
series 5 driver
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harris,
Robert
Subject: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series
V? reMiss ing pages
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi Steve,
I have a complete Chapter 10 which I'm going to mail to Joel, however my
manual is not complete and maybe you could help me. I'd be more than happy
to pay for your expenses.
What are the topics of chapters 7, 8 and 9 in the series V Manual and how
many pages is each chapter? (I have a chapter about fabric covering but it
is not numbered and wondered if that is chapter 7, 8 or 9.
Robert
N200KF/0200 Series V
San Diego
Message 13
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Hi John, didn't see a response so you might go to the Skystar web site, look on
the left side of the page then click on Technical Support and you find all the
AD and Service bulletins for the Kitfox line.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: John Anderson<mailto:janderson412@hotmail.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com<mailto:janderson412@hotmail.com>>
Hi folks, is there a full list of Kitfox AD bulletins on the web somewhere
petaining maily to the Series 5? Thanks, John A.
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming<http://xtra.co.nz/streaming>
Message 14
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <N93HJ@numail.org>
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. What you will find on the Skystar website
are Service Bulletins and Service Letters. ADs are issued by the FAA on Type
Certificated aircraft. Kitfoxes being experimental category (amateur built)
will not have ADs. There is no certificate to issue it against.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
> Hi John, didn't see a response so you might go to the Skystar web site,
> look on the left side of the page then click on Technical Support and you
> find all the AD and Service bulletins for the Kitfox line.
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
> N345DY
>
> Do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Anderson<mailto:janderson412@hotmail.com>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:36 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
> <janderson412@hotmail.com<mailto:janderson412@hotmail.com>>
>
>
> Hi folks, is there a full list of Kitfox AD bulletins on the web
> somewhere
> petaining maily to the Series 5? Thanks, John A.
>
> Check out the latest video @
> http://xtra.co.nz/streaming<http://xtra.co.nz/streaming>
>
>
>
Message 15
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Do you, guys, think that the pilot was too keen on the brakes to tip over
like
that, or is it something else that can get a taildragger over end?
Cheers,
Michel
Hi ! Michel,
a friend of mine tipped his ultralight over on forced
landing about 12 months ago. The cause was landing on soft sand and slightly
down hill. The wheels sunk into the sand enough that the wheel pants dug
into the sand. He had had a better spot lined up until the last minute when
some horses ran out from the scrub in front of him. Very little damage was
done to the plane and he was ok except for maybe his pride.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Seri es V? |
reMiss ing pages
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
ok i will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harris,
Robert
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of
Seri es V? reMiss ing pages
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Steve thanks for your help. I'll see if Joel can mail me chapter 7 and
chapter 8 including the continental pages. If he can't I'll take you up on
your offer. Steve, e-mail me off line and I'll give you 2005 TurboTax for
your help.
Robert
Robert_harris@intuit.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eccles
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series
V? reMiss ing pages
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
Robert
In my chapter 7 it is about the landing gear, 10 pages,, chapter 8 is the
rotax smooth cowling install along with the firewall..16 pages in addition 3
pages for the continental install,, In my manual the fabric chapter doesn't
really have a number but the next chapter is 10 so i think that it must be
9,, 25 pages,, but since i used stits process i just followed there
manual,,, anything that you need just let me know glad to be of assistance
Steve
series 5 driver
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harris,
Robert
Subject: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series
V? reMiss ing pages
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi Steve,
I have a complete Chapter 10 which I'm going to mail to Joel, however my
manual is not complete and maybe you could help me. I'd be more than happy
to pay for your expenses.
What are the topics of chapters 7, 8 and 9 in the series V Manual and how
many pages is each chapter? (I have a chapter about fabric covering but it
is not numbered and wondered if that is chapter 7, 8 or 9.
Robert
N200KF/0200 Series V
San Diego
Message 17
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Brett, your absolutely right. Skystar lists the Service Letters and Service Bulletins
only and not ADs.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Brett Walmsley<mailto:N93HJ@numail.org>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <N93HJ@numail.org<mailto:N93HJ@numail.org>>
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. What you will find on the Skystar website
are Service Bulletins and Service Letters. ADs are issued by the FAA on Type
Certificated aircraft. Kitfoxes being experimental category (amateur built)
will not have ADs. There is no certificate to issue it against.
Message 18
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Sorry, meant Bulletins....
From: "Brett Walmsley" <N93HJ@numail.org>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <N93HJ@numail.org>
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. What you will find on the Skystar website
are Service Bulletins and Service Letters. ADs are issued by the FAA on Type
Certificated aircraft. Kitfoxes being experimental category (amateur built)
will not have ADs. There is no certificate to issue it against.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
>Hi John, didn't see a response so you might go to the Skystar web site,
>look on the left side of the page then click on Technical Support and you
>find all the AD and Service bulletins for the Kitfox line.
>
>Dee Young
>Model II
>N345DY
>
>Do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Anderson<mailto:janderson412@hotmail.com>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:36 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
><janderson412@hotmail.com<mailto:janderson412@hotmail.com>>
>
>
> Hi folks, is there a full list of Kitfox AD bulletins on the web
>somewhere
> petaining maily to the Series 5? Thanks, John A.
>
> Check out the latest video @
>http://xtra.co.nz/streaming<http://xtra.co.nz/streaming>
>
>
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| Subject: | New Weight & Balance DVD |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
This is an advertisement but may be of value to some Kitfox builders.
HomebuiltHELP has just completed a new DVD entitled: Weight & Balance101 for Homebuilts. It is basically a how-to refresher course in W&B geared specifically to understanding and filling out the documents needed for the inspection step of certification for an experimental homebuilt. (This is by the same people that did the 912 installation video). I'll leave it that and let those interested visit http://homebuilthelp.com/W&B.htm for further details on this.
(FWIW, the people at HomebuiltHELP read the Kitfox List everyday!)
do not archive
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