---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/02/05: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - Re: Re: Engine Stuff (aerocon1@telusplanet.net) 2. 03:36 AM - Re: Model 4 tailspring (Don Smythe) 3. 07:51 AM - Great engine info . how does one properly change the oil in the small Tank? (Aerobatics@aol.com) 4. 08:16 AM - Re: Model 4 tailspring (jdmcbean) 5. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: Engine Stuff (Guy Buchanan) 6. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: Engine Stuff (Guy Buchanan) 7. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: Engine Stuff (Don Smythe) 8. 11:10 AM - Re: replacing landing gear (jablackwell) 9. 12:58 PM - What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss (Harris, Robert) 10. 01:26 PM - Re: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss ing pages (eccles) 11. 01:36 PM - Kitfox ADs (John Anderson) 12. 01:58 PM - Re: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of (Harris, Robert) 13. 02:41 PM - Re: Kitfox ADs (Dee Young) 14. 04:03 PM - Re: Kitfox ADs (Brett Walmsley) 15. 04:51 PM - Nose over (Rex & Jan Shaw) 16. 05:13 PM - Re: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Seri es V? reMiss ing pages (eccles) 17. 06:11 PM - Re: Kitfox ADs (Dee Young) 18. 07:01 PM - Re: Kitfox ADs (John Anderson) 19. 11:34 PM - New Weight & Balance DVD (Jon Croke) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:11 AM PST US From: aerocon1@telusplanet.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Stuff --> Kitfox-List message posted by: aerocon1@telusplanet.net Hi Guy et al.... To answer youtr first question: Regardless of how carefull one can be a two stroke engine should never be started or run without a load. First, even a very little throttle input can cause a major over revving of the engine... With no load the engine could be running at exceptionally high rpm with very little throttle input... This means lots of movement with little lubrication.. This could result in some damaged pistons and bearings. re second question: In a perfect world the vent line should run up hill all the way to the expansion tank (filler). The vent is there to take gasses off cylinder hear. Unless the filler is quite a bit lower than the vent the gasses should still clear the line and push the gasses into the expansion tank. No valve is necesary and really not a good idea. Even though you get all the air out of the cylinder head, you will still create gasses as the cyl. head will have some hot spots that will cause boiling off of coolant. You need a place for all that gas to go. re: third question: Re pre lubing the engine.... How long has the engine sat without been used. If the engine is over 5 years old and there has been no additional corrosion protection done, it should be inspected by a knowledgeable service tech. We see a few engines every year that corrosion has destroyed while sitting on a kit (or even in the factory box....the factory corrosion protection is only good for a couple of years) while the plane is under construction. A prolonged storage periods with little or no corrosion protection and lead to short lifespan of any ball bearing...and your 582 has lots of them. Aside from the above....there is no pre-lubing required. As long as the oil injection system has been set up properly and has been bled and you are running a 1% oil solutuion in the tank you are set to go. Hope this info helps Bob Robertson Light Engine Services Ltd. Rotax Service Center St. Albert, Ab. Can Quoting John Stoner : > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Stoner" > > > Hello Guy, > I'll start off with some thoughts on your questions: > > 1. Can / should I run my 582 / C / RK400 clutch without the prop installed? > > After a recent overhaul I started and ran my 582 / C with no prop to > correctly set the oil injector with an unloaded engine at idle. Mine does > not have the RK400 clutch, but if I understand the clutch mechanism the > engine will start and idle with no prop load anyway. I was very careful to > limit the no-load RPM to less than 3,000. > > 2. My 582 grey head head vent runs up and aft to the fill. It's decidedly > higher than the head or the fill. I therefore don't see how it will ever > clear of air. I'm thinking of putting a valve at the top to allow me to > open it to air to vent until coolant comes out, and then shut it. Is that > how it would work? > > On my system (KF III, 582) the head vent line connects to the fill lower > than the overflow outlet on the fill. I think that this is all that is > necessary. When the engine is running a small amount of coolant is always > flowing through this vent line and back into the system. > > 3. How do you pre-lube a 2-stroke? I'll have oil in the reservoir and that > system bled. I'll have oil in the fuel too. Is that all I need? Or do I > need to somehow pre-oil the engine? (It's been sitting for years.) Is there > any benefit to pulling the plugs and cranking unloaded at least until fuel > starts entering the engine? (I've only got the Mikuni fuel pump. I presume > it will take quite a bit of cranking to get the engine running, even with > the choke.) > > There is no need to pre-oil the engine. Follow manual to bleed system, > premix for the first tank, and light the fire. If you want to be over > cautious and do some pre oiling, just mix a small amount of fuel extra rich > with oil and squirt it into the carbs with a small oil pump can when you > first crank the engine (air filters removed for this). This priming into > the carbs is a good way to instatly start the engine without a lot of > cranking. (BE SURE TO HAVE A FIRE EXTINGUISHER HANDY, as you should at > every engine start and every fueling event.) > > If you fly in cold country you may want to toss the chokes and install a > primer. In my before primer days, a couple of times the battery did not > hold enough charge to start the engine with the chokes. With the choke > controls gone and primer in place the engine has never failed to start > instantly, when really cold I keep it running for the first 30 seconds or so > > by pumping the primer slowly until it warms enough to run on its own. > > Regards, > John Stoner > KF III, 582 > Alaska > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:24 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 4 tailspring --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" John, Is there a story about why Grove doesn't offer the tail spring anymore. That's the first I've heard about it.... Don Smythe Classic IV W/ 582 ----- Original Message ----- > Unfortunately Grove no longer offers the Aluminum Tail Wheel Spring..... ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:05 AM PST US From: Aerobatics@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Great engine info . how does one properly change the oil in the small Tank? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:52 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model 4 tailspring --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" I'm sure there is a story... If there were enough interest I may be able to get a volume run.... Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 4 tailspring --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" John, Is there a story about why Grove doesn't offer the tail spring anymore. That's the first I've heard about it.... Don Smythe Classic IV W/ 582 ----- Original Message ----- > Unfortunately Grove no longer offers the Aluminum Tail Wheel Spring..... ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:37 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Stuff --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 05:58 PM 10/1/2005, you wrote: > In my before primer days, a couple of times the battery did not >hold enough charge to start the engine with the chokes. John, Thank you for your thorough information. I'm hoping that with the clutch I can have a much lower idle, which I understand makes the choke more effective. I will probably eventually fly in the cold. If it doesn't work I'll install the primer. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:42 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Stuff --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 12:05 AM 10/2/2005, you wrote: >How long has the engine sat without been used. If the engine is over 5 years >old and there has been no additional corrosion protection done, it should be >inspected by a knowledgeable service tech. Bob, The engine was broken in and pickled by you in 2001. Since then it's been un-sealed in fairly high humidity conditions. I'd like to get my installation looked at anyway, but am in San Diego. Do you know of anyone reputable in the way of Rotax 582's in Southern California? Is there a simple check I can do? Thanks, Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:47 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Stuff --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Guy, I found the choke to be just about useless compared to the primer. I have both but backed off the adjustment linkage on the choke so to make sure it stays closed (haven't used it at all in 2-3 years). I get real good/fast starts by hitting the primer about 4 times (during pre-flight) and then hand rolling the prop through one compression (gets the rotary valve out of the way). Then, hit the primer about twice more. This puts a little fuel in both cylinders. Then, leave the primer out and push in as soon as the engine starts. Fires up real good compared to other methods I've tried. Don Smythe Classic IV W/ 582 ----- Original Message ----- > more effective. I will probably eventually fly in the cold. If it doesn't > work I'll install the primer. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:19 AM PST US From: " jablackwell" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: replacing landing gear --> Kitfox-List message posted by: " jablackwell" I used the same method when changing to Grove gear. When my helper got tired of holding the tail down I tied a weight to the tail wheel. I made the top of the sawhorse that contacts the bottom of the fuselage about 6" wide and put thick carpeting on top. This is also a handy way of changing tires or working on wheels. Jimmie ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Lowell Fitt" >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > >I made a short sawhorse like support and by lifting the tail another person >was able to insert it under the lift strud carry through and then by putting >a little more weight on the tail I could lift the mains off the ground. >Sort of like a teeter totter. > >Lowell >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: replacing landing gear > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: >> >> what is best way to lift kf5 so i can replace landing gear, friend >> suggested jacking at wing strut attachment looks to me that would put to >> much weightforward and plane would tip onto nose >> >> Netscape. Just the Net You Need. >> >> >> > > Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:10 PM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" ing pages Subject: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss ing pages --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Hi Steve, I have a complete Chapter 10 which I'm going to mail to Joel, however my manual is not complete and maybe you could help me. I'd be more than happy to pay for your expenses. What are the topics of chapters 7, 8 and 9 in the series V Manual and how many pages is each chapter? (I have a chapter about fabric covering but it is not numbered and wondered if that is chapter 7, 8 or 9. Robert N200KF/0200 Series V San Diego ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:48 PM PST US From: "eccles" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss ing pages --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" Robert In my chapter 7 it is about the landing gear, 10 pages,, chapter 8 is the rotax smooth cowling install along with the firewall..16 pages in addition 3 pages for the continental install,, In my manual the fabric chapter doesn't really have a number but the next chapter is 10 so i think that it must be 9,, 25 pages,, but since i used stits process i just followed there manual,,, anything that you need just let me know glad to be of assistance Steve series 5 driver -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harris, Robert Subject: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss ing pages --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Hi Steve, I have a complete Chapter 10 which I'm going to mail to Joel, however my manual is not complete and maybe you could help me. I'd be more than happy to pay for your expenses. What are the topics of chapters 7, 8 and 9 in the series V Manual and how many pages is each chapter? (I have a chapter about fabric covering but it is not numbered and wondered if that is chapter 7, 8 or 9. Robert N200KF/0200 Series V San Diego ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:33 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Hi folks, is there a full list of Kitfox AD bulletins on the web somewhere petaining maily to the Series 5? Thanks, John A. Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:14 PM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Seri es V? reMiss ing pages Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Seri es V? reMiss ing pages --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Steve thanks for your help. I'll see if Joel can mail me chapter 7 and chapter 8 including the continental pages. If he can't I'll take you up on your offer. Steve, e-mail me off line and I'll give you 2005 TurboTax for your help. Robert Robert_harris@intuit.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eccles Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss ing pages --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" Robert In my chapter 7 it is about the landing gear, 10 pages,, chapter 8 is the rotax smooth cowling install along with the firewall..16 pages in addition 3 pages for the continental install,, In my manual the fabric chapter doesn't really have a number but the next chapter is 10 so i think that it must be 9,, 25 pages,, but since i used stits process i just followed there manual,,, anything that you need just let me know glad to be of assistance Steve series 5 driver -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harris, Robert Subject: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss ing pages --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Hi Steve, I have a complete Chapter 10 which I'm going to mail to Joel, however my manual is not complete and maybe you could help me. I'd be more than happy to pay for your expenses. What are the topics of chapters 7, 8 and 9 in the series V Manual and how many pages is each chapter? (I have a chapter about fabric covering but it is not numbered and wondered if that is chapter 7, 8 or 9. Robert N200KF/0200 Series V San Diego ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:42 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" Hi John, didn't see a response so you might go to the Skystar web site, look on the left side of the page then click on Technical Support and you find all the AD and Service bulletins for the Kitfox line. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: John Anderson To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:36 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > Hi folks, is there a full list of Kitfox AD bulletins on the web somewhere petaining maily to the Series 5? Thanks, John A. Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:58 PM PST US From: "Brett Walmsley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" Someone correct me if I'm wrong. What you will find on the Skystar website are Service Bulletins and Service Letters. ADs are issued by the FAA on Type Certificated aircraft. Kitfoxes being experimental category (amateur built) will not have ADs. There is no certificate to issue it against. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" > > Hi John, didn't see a response so you might go to the Skystar web site, > look on the left side of the page then click on Technical Support and you > find all the AD and Service bulletins for the Kitfox line. > > Dee Young > Model II > N345DY > > Do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Anderson > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:36 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > > > > > Hi folks, is there a full list of Kitfox AD bulletins on the web > somewhere > petaining maily to the Series 5? Thanks, John A. > > Check out the latest video @ > http://xtra.co.nz/streaming > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:52 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Nose over --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Do you, guys, think that the pilot was too keen on the brakes to tip over like that, or is it something else that can get a taildragger over end? Cheers, Michel Hi ! Michel, a friend of mine tipped his ultralight over on forced landing about 12 months ago. The cause was landing on soft sand and slightly down hill. The wheels sunk into the sand enough that the wheel pants dug into the sand. He had had a better spot lined up until the last minute when some horses ran out from the scrub in front of him. Very little damage was done to the plane and he was ok except for maybe his pride. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:29 PM PST US From: "eccles" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Seri es V? reMiss ing pages --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" ok i will -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harris, Robert Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Seri es V? reMiss ing pages --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Steve thanks for your help. I'll see if Joel can mail me chapter 7 and chapter 8 including the continental pages. If he can't I'll take you up on your offer. Steve, e-mail me off line and I'll give you 2005 TurboTax for your help. Robert Robert_harris@intuit.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eccles Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss ing pages --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" Robert In my chapter 7 it is about the landing gear, 10 pages,, chapter 8 is the rotax smooth cowling install along with the firewall..16 pages in addition 3 pages for the continental install,, In my manual the fabric chapter doesn't really have a number but the next chapter is 10 so i think that it must be 9,, 25 pages,, but since i used stits process i just followed there manual,,, anything that you need just let me know glad to be of assistance Steve series 5 driver -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harris, Robert Subject: Kitfox-List: What are the Topics of Chapter 7 , 8 & 9 of Series V? reMiss ing pages --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Hi Steve, I have a complete Chapter 10 which I'm going to mail to Joel, however my manual is not complete and maybe you could help me. I'd be more than happy to pay for your expenses. What are the topics of chapters 7, 8 and 9 in the series V Manual and how many pages is each chapter? (I have a chapter about fabric covering but it is not numbered and wondered if that is chapter 7, 8 or 9. Robert N200KF/0200 Series V San Diego ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:03 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" Brett, your absolutely right. Skystar lists the Service Letters and Service Bulletins only and not ADs. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Brett Walmsley To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:03 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" > Someone correct me if I'm wrong. What you will find on the Skystar website are Service Bulletins and Service Letters. ADs are issued by the FAA on Type Certificated aircraft. Kitfoxes being experimental category (amateur built) will not have ADs. There is no certificate to issue it against. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:10 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Sorry, meant Bulletins.... From: "Brett Walmsley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" Someone correct me if I'm wrong. What you will find on the Skystar website are Service Bulletins and Service Letters. ADs are issued by the FAA on Type Certificated aircraft. Kitfoxes being experimental category (amateur built) will not have ADs. There is no certificate to issue it against. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" > >Hi John, didn't see a response so you might go to the Skystar web site, >look on the left side of the page then click on Technical Support and you >find all the AD and Service bulletins for the Kitfox line. > >Dee Young >Model II >N345DY > >Do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Anderson > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:36 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox ADs > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" >> > > > Hi folks, is there a full list of Kitfox AD bulletins on the web >somewhere > petaining maily to the Series 5? Thanks, John A. > > Check out the latest video @ >http://xtra.co.nz/streaming > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:30 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Kitfox-List: New Weight & Balance DVD --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" This is an advertisement but may be of value to some Kitfox builders. HomebuiltHELP has just completed a new DVD entitled: Weight & Balance101 for Homebuilts. It is basically a how-to refresher course in W&B geared specifically to understanding and filling out the documents needed for the inspection step of certification for an experimental homebuilt. (This is by the same people that did the 912 installation video). I'll leave it that and let those interested visit http://homebuilthelp.com/W&B.htm for further details on this. (FWIW, the people at HomebuiltHELP read the Kitfox List everyday!) do not archive