---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/15/05: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:33 AM - Powder coated motor mount (Fox5flyer) 2. 07:29 AM - Clevis movement (Chenoweth) 3. 07:45 AM - Re: Clevis movement (Don Pearsall) 4. 09:13 AM - Wing support while trailering (Mdkitfox@aol.com) 5. 12:08 PM - Re: Clevis movement (Cudnohufsky's) 6. 12:39 PM - Re: Clevis movement (Michel Verheughe) 7. 02:25 PM - Re: Clevis movement (John Stoner) 8. 03:02 PM - Re: UHS Spinner (John King) 9. 04:09 PM - Re: Clevis movement (Don Smythe) 10. 04:14 PM - Re: Wing support while trailering (Fox5flyer) 11. 05:18 PM - Skystar (Rex & Jan Shaw) 12. 06:06 PM - Re: Skystar (Don Pearsall) 13. 06:59 PM - Skystar order () 14. 09:34 PM - Re: UHS Spinner (Guy Buchanan) 15. 09:34 PM - Re: Re: Clevis movement (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:43 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Powder coated motor mount --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" We all feel the pain with Skystar Scott, but not as much as you folks waiting for parts. Hopefully they'll soon climb out of their hole and you folks will be able to finish your projects. As for the powder coat. It's my opinion that you're better off without it on the mount because it can tend to hide cracks. Better to just zinc chromate it then top coat with a thin coat of white. That way, any cracks will be easily spotted. Deke > I just received my engine mount after waiting 2 years and 9 months. Of > course it is missing the powdercoat. Now I'm just waiting on the exhaust > that I have been told is in quality control for inspection since last May. > And I bought the quick build kit. > > I'm glad to see Skystar getting some orders out. But I don't have to much > faith that I will see my remaining backordered exhaust before the three year > anniversary of my kit. > > Scott Miller > Kitfox Sport > Seattle/Bremerton > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar Where are they ?Skystar Where are they ? > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: RV73HL@aol.com > > > > I just received an order today, that was only two weeks old. Looks to me > > like they are doing their job. > > > > Howard > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:57 AM PST US From: "Chenoweth" Subject: Kitfox-List: Clevis movement --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" Here's a situation I discovered the other day and I wonder if anyone on the list has experienced something similar. The clevis pin that attaches the right front spar to the carry thru wants to work its way up. This may have been going on forever but I just noticed that the safety pin was up solidly against the spar about 11 flight hours ago and pounded the clevis pin fully down. The clevis pin is now about halfway back up. There is obviously motion somewhere. There is no obvious looseness in the joint. The left wing doesn't manifest this tendency at all. I have a 13 gallon tank on the right and fly with it from full to 1/2 full all the time. I don't put any gas in my left tank and have shutoffs to keep the tanks from cross feeding. In other words the right wing weighs 50 pounds or so more than the left. Other than to note that the safety pins are in there for a reason I have no idea if this is a common event or if my plane is unique. Nor do I know if it is a symptom of something bad. So if any one has this happening I'd surely like to know and what, if anything, was done to correct it. Thanks very much. Bill in Maine IV-1200 (582) with 160 hours ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:27 AM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Clevis movement --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Bill, It sounds like the pin is loose in the hole. You would not notice it when there is stress from the weight of the wing on it. Have you taken the pin out and examined it? Since it was going up and being pounded down, it may be worn, which is not a good thing. Since it was moving upward, it is probably tapered at the bottom - trying to go from tight to loose. As you know, the more loose it is, the "looser" it will get faster and faster. Try replacing it. If it is too loose in the hole, you may need one a few thousanths over. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth Subject: Kitfox-List: Clevis movement --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" Here's a situation I discovered the other day and I wonder if anyone on the list has experienced something similar. The clevis pin that attaches the right front spar to the carry thru wants to work its way up. This may have been going on forever but I just noticed that the safety pin was up solidly against the spar about 11 flight hours ago and pounded the clevis pin fully down. The clevis pin is now about halfway back up. There is obviously motion somewhere. There is no obvious looseness in the joint. The left wing doesn't manifest this tendency at all. I have a 13 gallon tank on the right and fly with it from full to 1/2 full all the time. I don't put any gas in my left tank and have shutoffs to keep the tanks from cross feeding. In other words the right wing weighs 50 pounds or so more than the left. Other than to note that the safety pins are in there for a reason I have no idea if this is a common event or if my plane is unique. Nor do I know if it is a symptom of something bad. So if any one has this happening I'd surely like to know and what, if anything, was done to correct it. Thanks very much. Bill in Maine IV-1200 (582) with 160 hours ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:36 AM PST US From: Mdkitfox@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing support while trailering --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mdkitfox@aol.com Does anyone know how the Model V wings are secured at the aft end so the aircraft can be towed? I know the front spar is supported with a wing brace like the Model IV. Unlike the Model 4, the Series V does not seem to have the aft attach brackets. Do not archive Thanks, Rick Weiss Series V ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:54 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@Chartermi.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clevis movement --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> Bill, Never had the problem but also never liked the idea of the clevised pin either. I opted to use a threaded bolt with Nylock in the front the same as the rear, I liked the idea of keeping everything drawn tight, but I also never checked with Skystar to see if there was any flaws in my thinking. Anyone else? Lloyd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chenoweth" Subject: Kitfox-List: Clevis movement > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" > > Here's a situation I discovered the other day and I wonder if anyone on > the list has experienced something similar. > > The clevis pin that attaches the right front spar to the carry thru wants > to work its way up. This may have been going on forever but I just > noticed that the safety pin was up solidly against the spar about 11 > flight hours ago and pounded the clevis pin fully down. The clevis pin is > now about halfway back up. There is obviously motion somewhere. > > There is no obvious looseness in the joint. The left wing doesn't > manifest this tendency at all. I have a 13 gallon tank on the right and > fly with it from full to 1/2 full all the time. I don't put any gas in my > left tank and have shutoffs to keep the tanks from cross feeding. In > other words the right wing weighs 50 pounds or so more than the left. > > Other than to note that the safety pins are in there for a reason I have > no idea if this is a common event or if my plane is unique. Nor do I know > if it is a symptom of something bad. > > So if any one has this happening I'd surely like to know and what, if > anything, was done to correct it. > > Thanks very much. > Bill in Maine > IV-1200 (582) with 160 hours > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:09 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clevis movement --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Cudnohufsky's wrote: > but I also > never checked with Skystar to see if there was any flaws in my thinking. > Anyone else? > Lloyd Well, first Bill, my pin never moves by itself and I need a mallet when I want to remove it. Lloyd, my inspector didn't like at all the safety pin. He told me I should change it for a bolt with castle-nut. My opinion? None! I don't know anything about structural aviation metallurgy. But I guess if the clevis with safety pin has been standard for so many years, smarter people than me and my inspector, have agreed that it was safe enough. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:09 PM PST US From: "John Stoner" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Clevis movement --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Stoner" I replaced the pins with AN45-32 eyebolts, castellated nuts and cotters. I can then use the eyebolts as lifting eyes when changing from wheels to floats and back. Regards, John Stoner KFIII, 582 Alaska ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:23 PM PST US From: John King Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: UHS Spinner --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King Guy, Make sure that the fiberglass back plate is secured to the prop flange with wide diameter washers. Something near one inch in diameter. Otherwise there will be cracking of the fiberglass at the mounting bolt holes. Some people use an aluminum back plate, even better. -- John King Warrenton, VA Guy Buchanan wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > >All, > I bought a 10" UHS fiberglass spinner to go over my Warp Drive >three blade with HP hub. The spinner back plate looks to be about .08" of >chopped strand mat fiberglass - not a very robust part, in my opinion. Has >anyone cracked or broken one of these? Should I reinforce it with some of >my carbon iso-plate? > >Thanks, > > >Guy Buchanan >K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar. > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:36 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clevis movement --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Loyd, Good question. I opted to do the same but I use castle nuts w/ cotter pins on the front. I don't torque them down to any specific torque but rather run them down and just add a little more. I don't want to squeeze too much. Any pro's to this procedure would be appreciated. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clevis movement > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> > > Bill, > Never had the problem but also never liked the idea of the clevised pin > either. I opted to use a threaded bolt with Nylock in the front the same > as > the rear, I liked the idea of keeping everything drawn tight, but I also > never checked with Skystar to see if there was any flaws in my thinking. > Anyone else? > Lloyd > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chenoweth" > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Clevis movement > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" >> >> Here's a situation I discovered the other day and I wonder if anyone on >> the list has experienced something similar. >> >> The clevis pin that attaches the right front spar to the carry thru wants >> to work its way up. This may have been going on forever but I just >> noticed that the safety pin was up solidly against the spar about 11 >> flight hours ago and pounded the clevis pin fully down. The clevis pin >> is >> now about halfway back up. There is obviously motion somewhere. >> >> There is no obvious looseness in the joint. The left wing doesn't >> manifest this tendency at all. I have a 13 gallon tank on the right and >> fly with it from full to 1/2 full all the time. I don't put any gas in >> my >> left tank and have shutoffs to keep the tanks from cross feeding. In >> other words the right wing weighs 50 pounds or so more than the left. >> >> Other than to note that the safety pins are in there for a reason I have >> no idea if this is a common event or if my plane is unique. Nor do I >> know >> if it is a symptom of something bad. >> >> So if any one has this happening I'd surely like to know and what, if >> anything, was done to correct it. >> >> Thanks very much. >> Bill in Maine >> IV-1200 (582) with 160 hours >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:54 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing support while trailering --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" They should have been included with the kit. Slightly different than the IV. To attach them you you run a long bolt through the hole near the leading edge of the horizontal stab. If you can't find them, let me know and I'll snap a photo of mine and send it to you. Deke --> Does anyone know how the Model V wings are secured at the aft end so the > aircraft can be towed? I know the front spar is supported with a wing brace > like the Model IV. Unlike the Model 4, the Series V does not seem to have the > aft attach brackets. > > Do not archive > > Thanks, > > Rick Weiss > Series V > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:04 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Does anyone else have problems with Skystar? We bought 10 kits and brought them to South Africa 1 year ago. To be honest the level of service from Skystar since Ed Downs left has been non existent. They never answer emails, never return phone calls, never send out an order without being chased and even then only after several months. Does anyone know what is going on as they have not been answering their phones at all for 3 days and the message answering service is FULL and will take no more messages. Will they go bust OR what? Guys I had my own business for over 30yrs before I sold out and retired. A couple of years in we ran close to the wind financially. At that time we couldn't buy what we wanted. Our credit rating was shaky and we couldn't always supply what the customer wanted. Staff was cut back and so service was difficult to maintain. However we struggled through and went on to do very well. I know we all need to have Skystar there and I think if we don't make it too hard for them with unnecessary negative feedback they have a good chance of coming good in the end. Yes they probably could try harder to answer the phone and be honest about deliveries. However they can't deliver what they don't have and can't get. If you wan't Skystar there please give them a go. They have admitted to this list only about 12 months ago that their problems were financial based. I think that was very difficult for them to do. Give them credit for that ! Yes I do understand if you are on the wrong end of the stick and not getting things especially if you have paid for them. If that's your personal experience then you do have the right to complain but consider first. Perhaps your complaining might even be the straw that breaks the camels back so that in fact the goods you are waiting for that would have eventually come might then not come at all because Skystar does dissapear. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:18 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Rex, thank you for your words of real-world experience. I am absolutely positive that the Skystar staff are working hard to keep the doors open, just like you did. HOWEVER, they should also know how important good relations are for both existing and potential customers. Not answering phones or email, and having a full voice mailbox only invite speculation and bad vibes like you see expressed here. That is not good business and I am sure you did not use that as part of your business model! Skystar will recover eventually, but I sure hate to see them make things look bad for themselves when it is so easily avoided. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex & Jan Shaw Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Does anyone else have problems with Skystar? We bought 10 kits and brought them to South Africa 1 year ago. To be honest the level of service from Skystar since Ed Downs left has been non existent. They never answer emails, never return phone calls, never send out an order without being chased and even then only after several months. Does anyone know what is going on as they have not been answering their phones at all for 3 days and the message answering service is FULL and will take no more messages. Will they go bust OR what? Guys I had my own business for over 30yrs before I sold out and retired. A couple of years in we ran close to the wind financially. At that time we couldn't buy what we wanted. Our credit rating was shaky and we couldn't always supply what the customer wanted. Staff was cut back and so service was difficult to maintain. However we struggled through and went on to do very well. I know we all need to have Skystar there and I think if we don't make it too hard for them with unnecessary negative feedback they have a good chance of coming good in the end. Yes they probably could try harder to answer the phone and be honest about deliveries. However they can't deliver what they don't have and can't get. If you wan't Skystar there please give them a go. They have admitted to this list only about 12 months ago that their problems were financial based. I think that was very difficult for them to do. Give them credit for that ! Yes I do understand if you are on the wrong end of the stick and not getting things especially if you have paid for them. If that's your personal experience then you do have the right to complain but consider first. Perhaps your complaining might even be the straw that breaks the camels back so that in fact the goods you are waiting for that would have eventually come might then not come at all because Skystar does dissapear. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:15 PM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar order --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ordered the kitfox pilot's guide and it came today in the snail mail. All went well, sent check and in less then 2 weeks got my order. I know it was not much, but! Steve Barrington, NH http://websites.expercraft.com/highwaystar/ My web page. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:25 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: UHS Spinner --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 02:59 PM 10/15/2005, you wrote: >Make sure that the fiberglass back plate is secured to the prop flange >with wide diameter washers. The UHS folks sent fender and flat washers to be stacked over the holes. Hopefully that will prove to be enough, as I'm going to forego the carbon plate for now. I've mounted the spinner and was disappointed with the holes cut for the prop. I recommend to all to order their UHS spinner plain and cut the holes themselves. The cuts and measurements are very simple and anyone can do a neater job than UHS. If I'd been smart I'd have mounted it before I painted it, noticed the problem, and then sent it back for an un-cut unit. Oh well. More silk purses from sow's ears. It appears to run true, however. Thanks John, Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:25 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Clevis movement --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 02:24 PM 10/15/2005, you wrote: >I replaced the pins with AN45-32 eyebolts, castellated nuts and cotters. I >can then use the eyebolts as lifting eyes when changing from wheels to >floats and back. This is a great idea. I personally think the spar holes should be captured with bolts. Otherwise there's no requirement that they stay in contact with the associated fuselage frame tube. With a clevis, the spar reinforcements can splay up and down, bending the clevis pin and ultimately failing. (I know, it's never happened.) Capturing the spars keeps them round and the attachment bolts in (almost) pure shear. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.