Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:41 AM - Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld?3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld? (Joel Mapes)
2. 09:05 AM - Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld? (Guy Buchanan)
3. 09:07 AM - Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks (Guy Buchanan)
4. 09:41 AM - Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks (jdmcbean)
5. 10:43 AM - Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks (Mike Chaney)
6. 11:25 AM - Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks (jdmcbean)
7. 11:34 AM - Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks (Guy Buchanan)
8. 12:01 PM - Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks (jdmcbean)
9. 12:34 PM - Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld?3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld? (kurt schrader)
10. 02:13 PM - Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld?3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld? (Fox5flyer)
11. 07:48 PM - Construction manual (D& D Syverson)
12. 09:03 PM - Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks (Guy Buchanan)
13. 09:22 PM - Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks (jdmcbean)
14. 09:29 PM - Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld?3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld? (kurt schrader)
15. 10:21 PM - Re: Construction manual (Alan & Linda Daniels)
16. 10:37 PM - Re: Groundlooped Kitfox needing Parts (Sam Lawrence)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld?3M structural adhesive |
Scotch Weld?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
White glue carborundum (QF-180) is a cement capable of withstanding 2300 degrees
F and is available from Aircraft Spruce. It works best on porus or semi-porus
surfaces. If you plan to use it on a metal surface, first prime the surface
with epoxy primer. I used this glue to bond aluminized heat barrier patches to
the cowling near the front headers as well as to the firewall.
Joel
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
To add to Tom's response:
Looking at the 2216 data sheet it doesn't look like it can be post-cured.
Even after ageing 12 days at 300F the 180F strength is about 1/5 that of
room temperature. I'd recommend looking at 3M 2214 or one of the Hysol
products for high temperature applications. Of course you'll have to post
cure the bond at 350F to get the high temperature properties.
Epoxies that can be post-cured can operate no higher than their cure
temperature, up to a maximum determined by the formulation. Use at high
temperatures can have the effect of post-curing, but unfortunately
mechanical properties drop precipitously during the post-cure process.
At 07:26 AM 11/17/2005, you wrote:
>The 3M Scotch-weld technical data sheet for the gray stuff lists
>"Overlap shear stregth" at 75 degrees F to be 2500 psi. At 180 degrees
>F it drops to 400 psi. Just an interesting point though. After 8 days
>at 300 degrees F then cooled back down to 75 degrees F the shear
>strength goes up to 4000 psi. So I would say, heat is a good thing to
>cure it but keep the temp down while in use.
>Tom Jones
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:51 AM 11/17/2005, you wrote:
>TCP is a lead scavenger.. it's main ingredient is tricresylphosphate. It is
>recommended when using Avgas.
John,
I plan on burning nothing but 100LL out of shear laziness. Do I
need to use TCP in my 582?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Guy,
This is a difficult question. Should you use TCP when operating with
AvGas. IMHO.. yes. Now that being said... You are operating a 2 stroke and
therefore there are some interesting issues. Using a 1/2 oz per 10 gallons
may not be an issue.. but it will effect the mix ratio slightly.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:51 AM 11/17/2005, you wrote:
>TCP is a lead scavenger.. it's main ingredient is tricresylphosphate. It is
>recommended when using Avgas.
John,
I plan on burning nothing but 100LL out of shear laziness. Do I
need to use TCP in my 582?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
What about TCP in a four stroke?
Mike Chaney
At 07:51 AM 11/17/2005, you wrote:
>TCP is a lead scavenger.. it's main ingredient is tricresylphosphate. It is
>recommended when using Avgas.
John,
I plan on burning nothing but 100LL out of shear laziness. Do I
need to use TCP in my 582?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Absolutely... I use it religiously in our 912S
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Chaney
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
What about TCP in a four stroke?
Mike Chaney
At 07:51 AM 11/17/2005, you wrote:
>TCP is a lead scavenger.. it's main ingredient is tricresylphosphate. It is
>recommended when using Avgas.
John,
I plan on burning nothing but 100LL out of shear laziness. Do I
need to use TCP in my 582?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
John,
Thanks for the reply. I know you said earlier that TCP is a lead
scavenger, but does that mean these engines were designed to run on
unleaded, or that 100LL has too much lead and it needs to be reduced? If
so, do you know what's optimum? Does the TCP change octane rating?
Thanks for being there,
At 09:41 AM 11/18/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
>Guy,
> This is a difficult question. Should you use TCP when operating with
>AvGas. IMHO.. yes. Now that being said... You are operating a 2 stroke and
>therefore there are some interesting issues. Using a 1/2 oz per 10 gallons
>may not be an issue.. but it will effect the mix ratio slightly.
>
>Fly Safe !!
>John & Debra McBean
>www.sportplanellc.com
>"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
According to the Rotax owners manual they recommend a minimum of 92 Oct
unleaded fuel.. And yes the term Low Lead in 100LL is really anything but
Low Lead. The TCP does not reduce or boost octane to the best of my
knowledge. I have been told that European fuel regulations are stricter for
emission reasons and therefore are cleaner fuels... I do not have and
documentation to verify that.
IMHO.....
I choose to burn 100LL because I cannot get a clean auto fuel.. Although the
industry is regulated it is also allowed to use certain percentages of
chemicals to boost octane ratings.. these chemicals range from Acetone to
Toluene.. neither of which is good on the fuel system. The percentages I am
told are low, but in autos they are typically gone through the fuel system
in a matter of days or weeks... In aircraft it can sit for a lot longer. I
also ran a 2 year fuel test on the MIL Spec hoses vs the Auto Fuel lines...
using both Auto fuels from several different sources here in Idaho and
AvGas. The results were.. shall we say enlightening ? Not to mention the
residuals that were left behind...
I am not running MIL Spec lines and I run 100LL with TCP. If I were running
MIL Spec lines I would ONLY run 100LL. The down side... MIL Spec is more
kink resistant.. so if you are folding your wings a lot pay close attention
to the fuel lines.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
John,
Thanks for the reply. I know you said earlier that TCP is a lead
scavenger, but does that mean these engines were designed to run on
unleaded, or that 100LL has too much lead and it needs to be reduced? If
so, do you know what's optimum? Does the TCP change octane rating?
Thanks for being there,
At 09:41 AM 11/18/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
>Guy,
> This is a difficult question. Should you use TCP when operating
with
>AvGas. IMHO.. yes. Now that being said... You are operating a 2 stroke
and
>therefore there are some interesting issues. Using a 1/2 oz per 10 gallons
>may not be an issue.. but it will effect the mix ratio slightly.
>
>Fly Safe !!
>John & Debra McBean
>www.sportplanellc.com
>"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld?3M structural adhesive |
Scotch Weld?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Me too Joel,
I use white glue under the hood on my fox too, but I
am not impressed with its holding power. I just use
it to hold high temp material in place, but have to
deal with corners pulling up from time to time. Not
something to be used to hold hard components in place
like control lines.
kurt S. S-5/NSI
--- Joel Mapes <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> White glue carborundum (QF-180) is a cement capable
> of withstanding 2300 degrees F and is available from
> Aircraft Spruce. It works best on porus or
> semi-porus surfaces. If you plan to use it on a
> metal surface, first prime the surface with epoxy
> primer. I used this glue to bond aluminized heat
> barrier patches to the cowling near the front
> headers as well as to the firewall.
>
> Joel
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld?3M structural adhesive |
Scotch Weld?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I've had good performance under the cowling with high temp silicone.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Me too Joel,
>
> I use white glue under the hood on my fox too, but I
> am not impressed with its holding power. I just use
> it to hold high temp material in place, but have to
> deal with corners pulling up from time to time. Not
> something to be used to hold hard components in place
> like control lines.
>
> kurt S. S-5/NSI
>
> --- Joel Mapes <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > White glue carborundum (QF-180) is a cement capable
> > of withstanding 2300 degrees F and is available from
> > Aircraft Spruce. It works best on porus or
> > semi-porus surfaces. If you plan to use it on a
> > metal surface, first prime the surface with epoxy
> > primer. I used this glue to bond aluminized heat
> > barrier patches to the cowling near the front
> > headers as well as to the firewall.
> >
> > Joel
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Construction manual |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: D& D Syverson <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Good evening,
Does anyone know where a person can get a copy of, rent, borrow, or get access
to a firewall forward construction manual for a Model 7 configured for a
rotax 912ULS? I have the complete firewall forward parts for the rotax
engine. Anyone close to my neighborhood (Minnesota) with a manual? This was
one of the items I lost in the bankruptcy deal. I have the main construction
manual, but am missing the part for the firewall forward. I am sure that was
supposed to come with the engine. Didn't get the engine I purchased so didn't
get the manual either.
Sincerely,
Dave S.
St Paul, MN
Message 12
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| Subject: | Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 09:41 AM 11/18/2005, you wrote:
>You are operating a 2 stroke and
>therefore there are some interesting issues.
John,
Are we talking safety, engine life, etc.? Are you worried about
other things than the mix ratio? Is the mix ratio change by volume? (E.g.
1/2oz versus 10 gallons.) Or are there chemical changes involved? Is this
something I can chase down through Rotax? Do you have any testing you'd
recommend, or are the problems only going to show up in the long haul?
On another note; there is periodic discussion on the Lancair forum
regarding the eventual demise of 100LL. I'm assuming there will be some
kind of gasoline, and not just Jet-A. I further assume that what they will
replace it with is some kind of "high quality" auto fuel, probably octane
boosted, but also probably unleaded. I guess at that time we will be able
to dispense with the TCP.
Thanks,
Guy
Message 13
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| Subject: | Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Interesting topic... There has been talk of the demise of 100LL for a
long,..... long,...... long....... time. If they ever do find a
replacement it would most likely be a high octane unleaded replacement.
That could be a good thing... especially the fact that it would be available
all over the country.
2 strokes require a given fuel/oil/air mix ratio. Now lets assume that you
have your 582 singing... your oil injection is working great... Someone
says.. you know, running a little Marvels Mystery oil will extend the life
of your engine.. So you decide to give it a try... You add a little marvels
to the fuel. What just happened to the ratio ?.. You have just added more
oil and therefore less gas to the carb and consequently have just leaned
your engine. So it runs rough or runs high EGT's. The question is: will a
1/2 oz per 10 gallons make a difference ? Maybe not.. It was just something
to think about.
Do not archive....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 09:41 AM 11/18/2005, you wrote:
>You are operating a 2 stroke and
>therefore there are some interesting issues.
John,
Are we talking safety, engine life, etc.? Are you worried about
other things than the mix ratio? Is the mix ratio change by volume? (E.g.
1/2oz versus 10 gallons.) Or are there chemical changes involved? Is this
something I can chase down through Rotax? Do you have any testing you'd
recommend, or are the problems only going to show up in the long haul?
On another note; there is periodic discussion on the Lancair forum
regarding the eventual demise of 100LL. I'm assuming there will be some
kind of gasoline, and not just Jet-A. I further assume that what they will
replace it with is some kind of "high quality" auto fuel, probably octane
boosted, but also probably unleaded. I guess at that time we will be able
to dispense with the TCP.
Thanks,
Guy
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld?3M structural adhesive |
Scotch Weld?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Good point Deke,
I've used it in a few spots too and might use more to
seal up those pesky high temp insolation corners.
Has anyone put plastic wrap over their firewall
blanket and then sealed the cowl leaks with silicon
stuck to the cowl inside against the blanket? Just
wondered if it worked. Right now I am using foam
tapes. Not flame resistant as silicon, but they work
otherwise. No cockpit smells, but I'd like the higher
fire safety. Just don't know if it will seal as well
once you move the cowl.
Kurt S.
--- Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
>
> I've had good performance under the cowling with
> high temp silicone.
> Deke
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Construction manual |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Send me your address off list and I will copy and mail it to you.
Alan
D& D Syverson wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: D& D Syverson <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
>
>Good evening,
>
>Does anyone know where a person can get a copy of, rent, borrow, or get access
>to a firewall forward construction manual for a Model 7 configured for a
>rotax 912ULS? I have the complete firewall forward parts for the rotax
>engine. Anyone close to my neighborhood (Minnesota) with a manual? This was
>one of the items I lost in the bankruptcy deal. I have the main construction
>manual, but am missing the part for the firewall forward. I am sure that was
>supposed to come with the engine. Didn't get the engine I purchased so didn't
>get the manual either.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Dave S.
>St Paul, MN
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Groundlooped Kitfox needing Parts |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Sam Lawrence" <pslawr@telus.net>
Hi Tom
Thanks for the tips.
Where can I buy the scotchweld?
Any leads on parts will be appreciated.
Thank You
Sam Lawrence
-------Original Message-------
From: Tom Jones
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Groundlooped Kitfox needing Parts
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Sam,
I did the same thing a few years ago. I had to take the fuselage back
to Skystar to have the bungee truss replaced. While there I talked with
the engineer about salvaging the wing parts. All the wing parts that
are not damaged are reusable. The ribs can be removed with a heat gun
to soften the adhesive. Use a screwdriver to test it while heating. It
will soften with the heat and can be scraped off.
Mark the parts before you remove them. The flapperon brackets must go
back onto the same location on the same rib they came off, if reusing
that rib.
Tom Jones, Classic 4
Sam Lawrence wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Sam Lawrence" <pslawr@telus.net>
>
>My fox Model IV-1050 recently groundlooped and is in need of repair:
>
>I need the following parts:
>
>Wing Spars
>Gear
>Radiator
>Left Flapperon
>
>Can I dismantle the wing and salvage the ribs and stuff?
>Any Suggestions, ideas would be appreciated.
>
>Thanx
>Sam Lawrence
>
>
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