Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:42 AM - [Off-Topic] Frappr Map (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:24 AM - Re: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map (Ben Baltrusaitis)
3. 04:55 AM - Re: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map (Lyle Persels)
4. 05:25 AM - Re: Frappr Map (Clifford Begnaud)
5. 05:46 AM - Re: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map (Donald STEVENSON)
6. 05:52 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Don Smythe)
7. 05:52 AM - Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system (Donald STEVENSON)
8. 06:03 AM - Re: Kitfox IV seat (Don Smythe)
9. 06:13 AM - Re: trailer suspension (kurt schrader)
10. 06:21 AM - Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system (kurt schrader)
11. 06:54 AM - Re: trailer suspension (jareds@verizon.net)
12. 06:54 AM - Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system (Donald STEVENSON)
13. 07:39 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Donald STEVENSON)
14. 08:14 AM - Re: trailer suspension (flier)
15. 08:25 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Don Pearsall)
16. 08:53 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Guy Buchanan)
17. 08:53 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Guy Buchanan)
18. 08:53 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Guy Buchanan)
19. 09:46 AM - Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system (kurt schrader)
20. 09:54 AM - 2001 Kitfox 4 - 1200 with 912 UL For sale (Jay Fabian)
21. 10:01 AM - Re: trailer suspension (kurt schrader)
22. 10:08 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Rex Hefferan)
23. 10:53 AM - fabric covering (Gerald Jantzi)
24. 11:46 AM - Re: trailer suspension (David Savener)
25. 12:24 PM - Trailer suspension (Graeme Toft)
26. 12:50 PM - Re: trailer suspension (David Dawe)
27. 01:40 PM - Just A Few More Days Left; Lagging Behind Last Year... (Matt Dralle)
28. 04:37 PM - Fuel system (Rex & Jan Shaw)
29. 06:06 PM - Re: Windmill prop (Randy Daughenbaugh)
30. 06:21 PM - Hydraulic Lock (Jeffrey Puls)
31. 07:05 PM - Re: Hydraulic Lock (Rick)
32. 08:07 PM - Re: Hydraulic Lock (Jeffrey Puls)
33. 10:07 PM - Re: Hydraulic Lock (James Shumaker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | [Off-Topic] Frappr Map |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
[Off Kitfox topic]
On Nov 27, 2005, at 1:35 AM, Donald STEVENSON wrote:
>
> -Hi Cliff, I too am in Canada, and after many tries to
> sign in I gave up. I'm also using a Mac.
Hello Don, I am too on a Mac and I experience problems. Not that I
can't register but that my photo appears without the "Map It" link
under. I am currently talking to Ben, off-list, to check what can be
done. FYI, I see the map, the photos, etc. I am on Mac OS X, using
Safari as a browser.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
Michel and all Mac users,
I received a reply from the Frappr Map site owners and they said:
"We've had very conflicting reports concerning Macs and Mac browsers. It works
for some and doesn't for others and we have only one test Mac. I guess it's
a real roll of the dice whether it works or not".
I'm sorry, but that's all I can do as I'm just a go-between administrator.
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: Michel Verheughe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:41 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
[Off Kitfox topic]
On Nov 27, 2005, at 1:35 AM, Donald STEVENSON wrote:
>
> -Hi Cliff, I too am in Canada, and after many tries to
> sign in I gave up. I'm also using a Mac.
Hello Don, I am too on a Mac and I experience problems. Not that I
can't register but that my photo appears without the "Map It" link
under. I am currently talking to Ben, off-list, to check what can be
done. FYI, I see the map, the photos, etc. I am on Mac OS X, using
Safari as a browser.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com>
For Info, I'm using an iMac w/OS X Version 10.4.3 and Safari. Frappr
works fine for me. This pin map is a great idea. I just added my
location to the map.
Lyle Persels
On 11 27, 05, at 6:22 AM, Ben Baltrusaitis wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis"
> <ben@gmpexpress.net>
>
> Michel and all Mac users,
> I received a reply from the Frappr Map site owners and they said:
> "We've had very conflicting reports concerning Macs and Mac
> browsers. It works for some and doesn't for others and we have
> only one test Mac. I guess it's a real roll of the dice whether it
> works or not".
>
> I'm sorry, but that's all I can do as I'm just a go-between
> administrator.
> Ben
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michel Verheughe
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:41 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> <michel@online.no>
>
> [Off Kitfox topic]
>
> On Nov 27, 2005, at 1:35 AM, Donald STEVENSON wrote:
>>
>> -Hi Cliff, I too am in Canada, and after many tries to
>> sign in I gave up. I'm also using a Mac.
>
> Hello Don, I am too on a Mac and I experience problems. Not that I
> can't register but that my photo appears without the "Map It" link
> under. I am currently talking to Ben, off-list, to check what can be
> done. FYI, I see the map, the photos, etc. I am on Mac OS X, using
> Safari as a browser.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
I don't have anything to do with it. Sorry,
Cliff
-----Hello Cliff
I am located in Canada, having problems signing in.
Kitfox ll
321
Dave
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
-Lyle, My Mac setup is the same as yours but with
Version 10.3.9 and Safari , I can't see the map or
register, Don, Ontario Canada
-- Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels
> <lpers@mchsi.com>
>
> For Info, I'm using an iMac w/OS X Version 10.4.3
> and Safari. Frappr
> works fine for me. This pin map is a great idea. I
> just added my
> location to the map.
>
> Lyle Persels
>
> On 11 27, 05, at 6:22 AM, Ben Baltrusaitis wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben
> Baltrusaitis"
> > <ben@gmpexpress.net>
> >
> > Michel and all Mac users,
> > I received a reply from the Frappr Map site owners
> and they said:
> > "We've had very conflicting reports concerning
> Macs and Mac
> > browsers. It works for some and doesn't for
> others and we have
> > only one test Mac. I guess it's a real roll of
> the dice whether it
> > works or not".
> >
> > I'm sorry, but that's all I can do as I'm just a
> go-between
> > administrator.
> > Ben
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Michel Verheughe
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:41 AM
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel
> Verheughe
> > <michel@online.no>
> >
> > [Off Kitfox topic]
> >
> > On Nov 27, 2005, at 1:35 AM, Donald STEVENSON
> wrote:
> >>
> >> -Hi Cliff, I too am in Canada, and after many
> tries to
> >> sign in I gave up. I'm also using a Mac.
> >
> > Hello Don, I am too on a Mac and I experience
> problems. Not that I
> > can't register but that my photo appears without
> the "Map It" link
> > under. I am currently talking to Ben, off-list,
> to check what can be
> > done. FYI, I see the map, the photos, etc. I am
> on Mac OS X, using
> > Safari as a browser.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Michel
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Graeme,
I never did get around to building a trailer but did put a lot of
thought into what I considered the perfect trailer. I think the trailer
should be built to ride like a luxury car. You might even consider going to
a junk yard and purchase a couple rear end suspensions of such a car and use
it for the trailer (didn't look too much into this idea). I would
definitely use a dual axle setup. I believe duals will bridge a hole in the
road better than a single. The trailer must have built in fuel tanks to
dump the wings into with an electric transfer pump for refueling. The tail
needs a ramp to get it high enough to level things out (load tail first). I
even considered having the three points of the plane (mains and tailwheel)
rest on the trailer with their own separate suspension pads in addition to
the regular trailer suspension. A good set of wing supports (never haul
with fuel in the wings). An electric winch for loading. A MUST,,,,, never
haul with the weight of the tail on the tail spring. Need to design the
system where the tail wheel drops off the ramp and the weight is being
supported where the tail spring attaches to the fuselage. Also considered
an intermediate fuselage support between the tail wheel and the mains (we
did have a case where the fuselage bent right in the middle when hauling)
I guess that about covers my ideas.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
> Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for my fox and have
> referenced the plans and photos on sports flight however no one mentions
> the type of suspension they are using. This must be a fairly critical
> issue to consider due to loadings that the aircraft would experience on
> rough surfaces. I felt that a single axle with one leaf spring would be
> softer riding but I see some people are using dual axles. Can I have some
> comments from those that have experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS
> Think the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all are and what
> your aircraft look like even if it is mostly 12000 miles away.
>
> Cheers.
> Graeme Toft
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
Thanks Glenn, My tanks are installed, but I will look
into the product you mentioned, sounds like what I
need, Thanks again, Don Stevenson
--- Glenn Horne <glennflys@verizon.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne"
> <glennflys@verizon.net>
>
> Don,
> Glenn Horne here. I have two 13 gal. tanks in my
> model II.
> That were 1990 tanks. Built the aircraft but didn't
> do anything to
> the tanks. After all finish one (the left) leaked. I
> slosh the tank(after
> cleaning it good)
> with some tank sloshing compound from a company
> called Caswell Inc.
> It did the job. If yours are not installed now is
> the time to slosh them.
> The company web sit is www.caswellplating.com.
> On the first page click on the tab that says (repair
> products) There you
> will see epoxy gas
> tank sealer.
> Hope this helps.
> Glenn Horne Model II 582
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donald STEVENSON" <shericom@rogers.com>
> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald
> STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
> >
> > Hi everyone, Because of the problems with fuel
> flow
> > from the wing tanks to the header tank under some
> > conditions, I was thinking an electric aux fuel
> pump
> > might help. Any thoughts on this would be a help
> as I
> > will soon be ready to cover and would like to make
> any
> > changes before then, Thanks Don.
> >
> > PS. I have 2 fiberglass 13 gal wing tanks in the
> kit I
> > am building (Manufactured Mid 1992) and I don't
> have a
> > lot of faith in them, anything I can or should do
> ???
> > Thanks again.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV seat |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
I use two nylon support straps under each person. It was pointed out years
ago that one strap might tend to cause personnel injury in case of a hard
landing. One strap under each buttock will give better support. When
installing the straps, make them tight enough to almost support the seat and
use the tie wraps (or whatever) to pull the seat down into place. This
makes the support straps start supporting right away.
As far as the seat already being cracked, try repairing making a "M" support
in certain areas on the bottom. Apply a couple parallel lengths of balsa
wood about 1/4" to 1/2" high and separated about 1/8" or more apart (like
railroad tracks). Then uses some 2" wide fiberglass tape and epoxy over the
tracks. Push the tape down into the 1/8" gap formed by the balsa/plywood.
Makes a very strong added support.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: <Tc9008@aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV seat
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tc9008@aol.com
>
> The fiberglass seat has a crack in the center. Is there any support
> braces I
> can use or support straps?
> Travis
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Graeme,
The number of wheels determines both the number of
bounces transmitted to the trailor and the severity of
the bounce. With a single axel, each wheel will
transmit the entire bounce to the trailor when one
wheel hits a bump. The trailor moves up and down the
entire bump height, or at least the amount enertia and
shock absorbers lets it.
If you have 2 tandem wheels, you get 2 bumps, but each
is 1/2 as severe. As one wheel hits the bump, the
other maintains 1/2 the trailor load and stabilizes
it. This assumes the axels are suspend by a spring at
a point 1/2 way between them.
Then there are shocks and tire pressure to consider.
You can have softer tires because each only carries
1/2 the load, and 2 shocks per side on a tandem
trailor.
I think that you will find that 2 axels with tandem
wheels will give a much better ride to your plane, if
you are going over rough surfaces. Single axel is
fine and a little more efficient on smooth roads only.
I am planning on building a tandem trailor in the
future myself.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Graeme Toft <msm@byterocky.net> wrote:
> Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for my
> fox and have referenced the plans and photos on
> sports flight however no one mentions the type of
> suspension they are using. This must be a fairly
> critical issue to consider due to loadings that the
> aircraft would experience on rough surfaces. I felt
> that a single axle with one leaf spring would be
> softer riding but I see some people are using dual
> axles. Can I have some comments from those that have
> experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS Think
> the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all
> are and what your aircraft look like even if it is
> mostly 12000 miles away.
>
> Cheers.
> Graeme Toft
__________________________________
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Don,
I have some problems with flow from my left tank only.
Considered putting pumps at the tank outlet, but
didnt because the entire fuel system will be
pressurized past that. My main worry was the header
tanks ability to take the pressure. Gravity flow to
it inflates it a little, but higher pressure might be
a problem. Dont know, but didnt want to try it yet.
Some people have squeeze bulb primers on the lines
coming from their tanks. You might ask about these,
depending on your flow problems. Sure they are hand
operated, but they only add pressure when needed too
and will get the flow started for you.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone, Because of the problems with fuel flow
> from the wing tanks to the header tank under some
> conditions, I was thinking an electric aux fuel pump
> might help. Any thoughts on this would be a help as
> I will soon be ready to cover and would like to make
> any changes before then, Thanks Don.
__________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jareds@verizon.net" <jareds@verizon.net>
I've experimented with several trailers. One long trip did massive
damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension. It also had a dual axle
which only added to the stiffness.
As much give as the plane has it doesnt distribute it well in "wings
folded" mode.
With an extra long hitch on the typical Kitfox trailer I relocated
furniture and plane from DC to SD without incident.
Much smoother ride especially for the tail. Where the tail rests I also
built up the cradle so that i don't have to cinch it down so hard. That
allows the natural spring action of the tail to cushion the ride too.
Just my experience.
Jared
Graeme Toft wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
>Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for my fox and have referenced the
plans and photos on sports flight however no one mentions the type of suspension
they are using. This must be a fairly critical issue to consider due to
loadings that the aircraft would experience on rough surfaces. I felt that a single
axle with one leaf spring would be softer riding but I see some people are
using dual axles. Can I have some comments from those that have experience
with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS Think the frappr idea is great. Nice to know
where you all are and what your aircraft look like even if it is mostly 12000
miles away.
>
>Cheers.
>Graeme Toft
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
Hi Kirt, I'm still in the construction stage, so don't
have any fuel problems YET! My header is the round
alum. type so I don't think pressure should be any
problem. Regards, Don
--- kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Don,
>
> I have some problems with flow from my left tank
> only.
> Considered putting pumps at the tank outlet, but
> didnt because the entire fuel system will be
> pressurized past that. My main worry was the header
> tanks ability to take the pressure. Gravity flow to
> it inflates it a little, but higher pressure might
> be
> a problem. Dont know, but didnt want to try it yet.
>
> Some people have squeeze bulb primers on the lines
> coming from their tanks. You might ask about these,
> depending on your flow problems. Sure they are hand
> operated, but they only add pressure when needed too
> and will get the flow started for you.
>
> Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>
> --- Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone, Because of the problems with fuel
> flow
> > from the wing tanks to the header tank under some
> > conditions, I was thinking an electric aux fuel
> pump
> > might help. Any thoughts on this would be a help
> as
> > I will soon be ready to cover and would like to
> make
> > any changes before then, Thanks Don.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
Hi Jared, Can you tell me where I can see pictures and
details of a "Typical Kitfox trailer? Thanks Don
Stevenson, Ontario Canada
--- "jareds@verizon.net" <jareds@verizon.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> "jareds@verizon.net" <jareds@verizon.net>
>
> I've experimented with several trailers. One long
> trip did massive
> damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension. It
> also had a dual axle
> which only added to the stiffness.
> As much give as the plane has it doesnt distribute
> it well in "wings
> folded" mode.
> With an extra long hitch on the typical Kitfox
> trailer I relocated
> furniture and plane from DC to SD without incident.
> Much smoother ride especially for the tail. Where
> the tail rests I also
> built up the cradle so that i don't have to cinch it
> down so hard. That
> allows the natural spring action of the tail to
> cushion the ride too.
>
> Just my experience.
>
> Jared
> Graeme Toft wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft"
> <msm@byterocky.net>
> >
> >Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for
> my fox and have referenced the plans and photos on
> sports flight however no one mentions the type of
> suspension they are using. This must be a fairly
> critical issue to consider due to loadings that the
> aircraft would experience on rough surfaces. I felt
> that a single axle with one leaf spring would be
> softer riding but I see some people are using dual
> axles. Can I have some comments from those that have
> experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS Think
> the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all
> are and what your aircraft look like even if it is
> mostly 12000 miles away.
> >
> >Cheers.
> >Graeme Toft
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
There are some pics of the trailer I built out at
http://www.foxflier.com/kitfox/more_tc.htm
It rides good and has worked well over the past 9 yrs. Three other guys
have used it to haul 'Foxes they've purchased in other states with no probs.
Regards
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Donald
STEVENSON
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
Hi Jared, Can you tell me where I can see pictures and
details of a "Typical Kitfox trailer? Thanks Don
Stevenson, Ontario Canada
--- "jareds@verizon.net" <jareds@verizon.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> "jareds@verizon.net" <jareds@verizon.net>
>
> I've experimented with several trailers. One long
> trip did massive
> damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension. It
> also had a dual axle
> which only added to the stiffness.
> As much give as the plane has it doesnt distribute
> it well in "wings
> folded" mode.
> With an extra long hitch on the typical Kitfox
> trailer I relocated
> furniture and plane from DC to SD without incident.
> Much smoother ride especially for the tail. Where
> the tail rests I also
> built up the cradle so that i don't have to cinch it
> down so hard. That
> allows the natural spring action of the tail to
> cushion the ride too.
>
> Just my experience.
>
> Jared
> Graeme Toft wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft"
> <msm@byterocky.net>
> >
> >Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for
> my fox and have referenced the plans and photos on
> sports flight however no one mentions the type of
> suspension they are using. This must be a fairly
> critical issue to consider due to loadings that the
> aircraft would experience on rough surfaces. I felt
> that a single axle with one leaf spring would be
> softer riding but I see some people are using dual
> axles. Can I have some comments from those that have
> experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS Think
> the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all
> are and what your aircraft look like even if it is
> mostly 12000 miles away.
> >
> >Cheers.
> >Graeme Toft
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
There are a few pics of trailers on the SportFlight photo site. Just go to
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main and click on
trailers.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donald
STEVENSON
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
Hi Jared, Can you tell me where I can see pictures and
details of a "Typical Kitfox trailer? Thanks Don
Stevenson, Ontario Canada
--- "jareds@verizon.net" <jareds@verizon.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> "jareds@verizon.net" <jareds@verizon.net>
>
> I've experimented with several trailers. One long
> trip did massive
> damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension. It
> also had a dual axle
> which only added to the stiffness.
> As much give as the plane has it doesnt distribute
> it well in "wings
> folded" mode.
> With an extra long hitch on the typical Kitfox
> trailer I relocated
> furniture and plane from DC to SD without incident.
> Much smoother ride especially for the tail. Where
> the tail rests I also
> built up the cradle so that i don't have to cinch it
> down so hard. That
> allows the natural spring action of the tail to
> cushion the ride too.
>
> Just my experience.
>
> Jared
> Graeme Toft wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft"
> <msm@byterocky.net>
> >
> >Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for
> my fox and have referenced the plans and photos on
> sports flight however no one mentions the type of
> suspension they are using. This must be a fairly
> critical issue to consider due to loadings that the
> aircraft would experience on rough surfaces. I felt
> that a single axle with one leaf spring would be
> softer riding but I see some people are using dual
> axles. Can I have some comments from those that have
> experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS Think
> the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all
> are and what your aircraft look like even if it is
> mostly 12000 miles away.
> >
> >Cheers.
> >Graeme Toft
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 11:54 PM 11/26/2005, you wrote:
> I felt that a single axle with one leaf spring would be softer riding
> but I see some people are using dual axles. Can I have some comments from
> those that have experience with this issue.
My toy box has two axles, both torsion bar. There is no shock, but I'm told
that the rubber bushings used to support the axles provide some damping. I
suspect the entire assembly is available off-the-shelf, as they are
ubiquitous on toy boxes in Southern California. The only caveat is that my
toy box weighs about 3800 pounds with a 7000 pound gross. A small car
trailer wouldn't need near as much support.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:38 AM 11/27/2005, you wrote:
>Hi Jared, Can you tell me where I can see pictures and
>details of a "Typical Kitfox trailer? Thanks Don
>Stevenson, Ontario Canada
My very a-typical Kitfox trailer is visible on the Frappr site.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 06:52 AM 11/27/2005, you wrote:
>One long trip did massive
>damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension.
Jared,
Would you elaborate? I'll be running mine around soon and don't
want to experiment. I intend to have the tail and wing root support, but
have been wondering if I should build some kind of cradle for the aft end
of the wings. I'm wondering if the fuselage bend Don Smythe was referring
to was caused by the wing moments.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Don,
In that case, wing tank pumps might work well for you.
You can control tank balance by only turning one on
at a time. The pumps internal check valves might
keep you from getting cross flow in case of bad tank
cap seals or parking on a slope. If they flow thru
well when off, you still have gravity pressure in case
they fail. Seems like a good plan so far. Dont know
why not.
They will still unport if nose low and low on fuel,
but should regain flow faster because of self priming.
With both wing pumps on, the pump with the higher
pressure will be the only one feeding though. It will
require more monitering and balancing.
Those are the only things I can think of.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com> wrote:
> Hi Kirt, I'm still in the construction stage, so
> don't have any fuel problems YET! My header is the
round
> alum. type so I don't think pressure should be any
> problem. Regards, Don
__________________________________
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | 2001 Kitfox 4 - 1200 with 912 UL For sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
Hi List,
I have my Kitfox 4 - 1200 for sale now. Built in 2001, 135 TT, BRS........I have
been back and forth for a year or so. But I have put a whole 5 hours total
time this year and 18 last year on it. It needs to fly more. Contact me off list
for details, pics, and $$. Negotiable
I am in Mass.
Thanks
Jay
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Right jareds,
If you dont match the suspension to the load, it
wont matter much how many axels you have. A trailor
built for 3500lb cars or a heavy boat will be way too
stiff for a 700+/- lb kitfox and beat it to shreads.
Suspension made for 1000 lbs carried per tire will
hardly flex under a foxs weight.
But with Don S.trailor plans, carrying a plane on a
trailor that weighs maybe 1000 lbs gross can be done
by 4 wheels carrying only 250 lb each. Soft
suspension and tires will work great then. I like
Dons other ideas about adding more cushions too.
In my case, I want a covered trailor, which will be
heavier. I just want the protection from weather and
rocks. On my move to Florida, I was pelted by large
rocks from 3 houses that passed me doing over 70 mph!
Thanks FEMA. Yes, they were mobile homes with rocks
on the roof and they were in the passing lane doing
80! Crash! Bang! Should I apply for hurricane
relief?
Kurt S.
__________________________________
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex Hefferan <kitfox-m2@earthlink.net>
You should figure a weight and balance for the trailer too. I would
suggest that a trailer suspension would best be designed to support the
total weight of the load you anticipate carrying. That includes any on
trailer fuel storage system plus battery and pump to transfer fuel
to/from wing tanks, where that load is placed on the trailer, etc. Each
Kitfox built will have a different weight, so the best you might say is
a certain trailer suspension is best for a range of Kitfoxes depending
on their weight and where the airplane is positioned on that trailer.
Adapting suspension from a car may not result in a soft ride if the
weight is substantially different from the car it for which it was
designed. Suspension travel determines how deep of a pothole or height
of a bump can be soaked up before it significantly impacts the load.
Don't forget that some of the ride is dependent on how much hitch tongue
weight you can have and the suspension stiffness of the towing vehicle.
Wheel size and tire selection has an effect too. Think about how tire
selection works for airplanes designed to fly off of only paved runways
verses tundra tires.
I have single and tandem axle trailers and I agree that a tandem axle
rides much smoother.
Rex
Colorado
Message 23
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gerald Jantzi <gvjantzi@yahoo.com>
Thank you for the input Rick.
Next question. Do I follow the Poly fiber manual for the Concave bottom wings?
I put a straight edge on the Rib Capstrip the concave is about 1/4 inch.
My fuel tanks are nearly flush with the ribs on each side. SS says use Poly Brush
on tanks. Should I use Poly tac instead? Has anybody got the poly-fiber
video they would like to sell ? I am missing instruction for wheel pant installation
is there some way to get that part of the manual thanks again
Gerald Jantzi
---------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
I used a flat trailer with stiff suspension but I cushioned mine by laying inner
tubes on the floor, parking the mains and tail over the tubes then blowing them
up. I varied the pressure in the tubes to get the cushion needed.
Later I put tubes in tires without the rims. the stiffness of the tires helped
stabilize everything but still gave me cushion. It took just a small amount
of pressure with the tubes(inside the tires) under the landing gear.
Dave S
----- Original Message -----
From: Guy Buchanan<mailto:bnn@nethere.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com<mailto:bnn@nethere.com>>
At 11:54 PM 11/26/2005, you wrote:
> I felt that a single axle with one leaf spring would be softer riding
> but I see some people are using dual axles. Can I have some comments from
> those that have experience with this issue.
My toy box has two axles, both torsion bar. There is no shock, but I'm told
that the rubber bushings used to support the axles provide some damping. I
suspect the entire assembly is available off-the-shelf, as they are
ubiquitous on toy boxes in Southern California. The only caveat is that my
toy box weighs about 3800 pounds with a 7000 pound gross. A small car
trailer wouldn't need near as much support.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
This is obviously an issue that many have thoughts about. The reason I raised this
issue is because of the damage done to my first fox when carrying it the 300
kilometres home on a flat bed car trailer after purchasing it. It was an model
1 with timber flapperon hangers that were in perfect condition prior to leaving
for home but on inspection after arriving, 6 were cracked. This I believe
was due to the vertical position of the flapperon which prohibits them from
flexing when the wings are in the folded position. It was also noted that the
trailer was far to ridged for such a light load which subjected the plane to a
lot of shock loading. I suppose shock loading could also be translated a G loading
which if correct appeared to be far in excess of what the plane was rated
at. These comments have been great. Thanks guys.
Cheers
Graeme Toft
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: trailer suspension |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" <davedawe@msn.com>
I moved my Kitfox 800 miles,used trailer converted from camper type
gear.Excellent ride.
>From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension
>Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 08:49:08 -0800
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
>At 06:52 AM 11/27/2005, you wrote:
> >One long trip did massive
> >damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension.
>
>Jared,
> Would you elaborate? I'll be running mine around soon and don't
>want to experiment. I intend to have the tail and wing root support, but
>have been wondering if I should build some kind of cradle for the aft end
>of the wings. I'm wondering if the fuselage bend Don Smythe was referring
>to was caused by the wing moments.
>
>
>Guy Buchanan
>K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Just A Few More Days Left; Lagging Behind Last Year... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
There are just four more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response has
been very good, but we are behind last year as far as the number of people
that have made a Contribution and as a percentage of the total number of subscribers.
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means I have of keeping these Lists running through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser.
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Hi everyone, Because of the problems with fuel flow
from the wing tanks to the header tank under some
conditions, I was thinking an electric aux fuel pump
might help. Any thoughts on this would be a help as I
will soon be ready to cover and would like to make any
changes before then, Thanks Don.
PS. I have 2 fiberglass 13 gal wing tanks in the kit I
am building (Manufactured Mid 1992) and I don't have a
lot of faith in them, anything I can or should do ???
Thanks again.
Hi ! Don,
I have a MKIV/582 and am in the process of modifying the fuel
system somewhat. I'll just outline what I'm doing in case you find any
usefull ideas or info. First my standard system is a 3 litre header tank
behind the seat.and two 49 litre fibreglass wing tanks with a breather from
the header to inside top of the right hand tank. Now basically this works
fine right down to zero fuel IF it's done this way.
The only problem with the fibreglass tanks I have is seeing fuel level
through the glass ends. My plane was built by a mechanical engineer and
originally had aluminium tanks that split in flight. He wrecked the plane
landing it in a hurry in tiger country due to fuel flowing over him and his
passenger. The story goes that he threatened to sue Skystar and they gave
him a new airframe. So I'm very much in favour of the glass tanks over the
aluminium ones. From this list it is obvious though that you can get
pinholes in the glass and some fuels might be a problem. However I think
these problems are addressable. Refer to this list.
Seeing the fuel level through the ends in my opinion needs some thought.
Perhaps either an external sight tube but if I was going that way I'd want
to do it before installation. Some guys with glass tanks are putting 35 or
50mm reflector lamps up against the tank. This shines through and lights the
tank very brightly from inside and you can clearly see the fuel level. The
lamp needs to be operated by push button so it can't get left turned on and
overheat the glass. I'm actually seeing what I can do like this with an
ultrabright white LED.
Also in relation to running out of fuel I'm installing an optoelectrical
sensor at the top of the header tank to warn when I only have that much [ 3
litres ] left. Not much but a big help maybe. As well as that sensor
flashing a LED on the panel I'm considering a beep beep in the intercom.
I also want to run an electric pump for backup and maybe help get an
instant start if I needed to take care with a low battery. I have got a 3
outlet pulse pump to replace the 2 outlet. I'll feed the Facet electric pump
into the third outlet. sounds strange but actually I'm just using that
outlet pump chamber as a "T" piece to the carbies. The facet pump with a
srew on filter will mount under the seat and draw fuel from the header tank.
Now the model pump I'm using is important. It's a 40171. This flows no fuel
in either direction unless power is supplied. Therefore the fuel switch also
acts as a valve. I'm not feeding it in series with the pulse pump as
pressures are additive.
Perhaps you can get some usefull hints from all this.
Have fun,
Rex from Australia.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 29
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I don't want to encourage non-maintenance here, but... It really doesn't
take much from the battery to start the engine if you are still flying. At
almost any speed all it takes is a "bump" of the starter button and you have
a running engine.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Robertson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Windmill prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
<aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Ken,
The 912 is not only a high compression engine (well, compared to a lyc or
cont. it is!) it is also gear driven which makes it much harder for the prop
to spin the engine. Couple that with a light propeller and you are going
to be required to have a healthy airpseed in order to get the prop spinning
using just the forward airspeed of the aircraft.
Yup, a good battery is a real good idea. Better idea is to not have it quit
in the first place (big smile)...
regards
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" <kmjones@innernet.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Windmill prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kenneth and Alice Jones"
<kmjones@innernet.net>
>
> Years ago I had an RV-4 with a recently rebuilt O-360 and a light weight
> wood prop. The engine stopped on two separate occasions. Probably carb
> ice. In both cases the prop stopped dead. My mechanic thought it was
> because of a combination of a tight engine (high compression) and light
> prop. You can bet after that I always made sure I had a healthy battery.
> Would the same reasoning apply to a 912?
>
Message 30
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
I went out to the airport to fly the Fox. It has been a while so I cycled the prop
by hand. On the third revolution the prop locked. I removed the number four
lower plug and oil came out. I changed my oil on the annual and followed the
precise instructions in the maintenance manual on page 27 (12-00-00). I vented
the lubrication by precisely following the instructions on page 28 (12-00-00).
On page 26 (12-00-00) it discusses checking the oil and it states in part,
"Before checking the oil make sure that there is no oil in the crankcase. Prior
to oil level check turn the propeller several times by hand to transfer all
the oil from the engine to the oil tank."
If turning the prop is suppose to remove oil from the crankcase how can oil be
coming from the spark plug hole. I am confused. Does anyone have any idea what
is going on? I have 240 hours TT on the engine. Could I have an oil hose routed
wrong? Did I wait too long between flights to start the engine? How many revolutions
does it take to suck the oil out? Have I damaged the engine? Thanks,
Jeff Classic IV 912UL
Jeffrey Puls
pulsair@mindspring.com
Message 31
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am sure if you turned it by hand you have not broken anything. If you used
the started then rods can get bent or broken. I don't have a 912 engine.
Reading the post it sounds as if oil can drain from your oil tank into the
crank case. Possibly this resulted from a leaking check valve, not sure. If
it did then oil could seeping through worn valve guides or pistons rings and
fill into the combustion chamber. If it were a cracked block or head you
would have had a lot of smoke on your last flight or at least a pretty
fouled out plug. I think if you check you tank/ dry sump system and clear
the crankcase you should be OK.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Puls
Subject: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
I went out to the airport to fly the Fox. It has been a while so I cycled
the prop by hand. On the third revolution the prop locked. I removed the
number four lower plug and oil came out. I changed my oil on the annual and
followed the precise instructions in the maintenance manual on page 27
(12-00-00). I vented the lubrication by precisely following the instructions
on page 28 (12-00-00). On page 26 (12-00-00) it discusses checking the oil
and it states in part, "Before checking the oil make sure that there is no
oil in the crankcase. Prior to oil level check turn the propeller several
times by hand to transfer all the oil from the engine to the oil tank."
If turning the prop is suppose to remove oil from the crankcase how can oil
be coming from the spark plug hole. I am confused. Does anyone have any idea
what is going on? I have 240 hours TT on the engine. Could I have an oil
hose routed wrong? Did I wait too long between flights to start the engine?
How many revolutions does it take to suck the oil out? Have I damaged the
engine? Thanks, Jeff Classic IV 912UL
Jeffrey Puls
pulsair@mindspring.com
Message 32
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
Thanks Rick. Jeff
> [Original Message]
> From: Rick <wingsdown@comcast.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 11/27/2005 10:05:27 PM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
>
> I am sure if you turned it by hand you have not broken anything. If you
used
> the started then rods can get bent or broken. I don't have a 912 engine.
> Reading the post it sounds as if oil can drain from your oil tank into the
> crank case. Possibly this resulted from a leaking check valve, not sure.
If
> it did then oil could seeping through worn valve guides or pistons rings
and
> fill into the combustion chamber. If it were a cracked block or head you
> would have had a lot of smoke on your last flight or at least a pretty
> fouled out plug. I think if you check you tank/ dry sump system and clear
> the crankcase you should be OK.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Puls
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
>
> I went out to the airport to fly the Fox. It has been a while so I cycled
> the prop by hand. On the third revolution the prop locked. I removed the
> number four lower plug and oil came out. I changed my oil on the annual
and
> followed the precise instructions in the maintenance manual on page 27
> (12-00-00). I vented the lubrication by precisely following the
instructions
> on page 28 (12-00-00). On page 26 (12-00-00) it discusses checking the oil
> and it states in part, "Before checking the oil make sure that there is no
> oil in the crankcase. Prior to oil level check turn the propeller several
> times by hand to transfer all the oil from the engine to the oil tank."
>
> If turning the prop is suppose to remove oil from the crankcase how can
oil
> be coming from the spark plug hole. I am confused. Does anyone have any
idea
> what is going on? I have 240 hours TT on the engine. Could I have an oil
> hose routed wrong? Did I wait too long between flights to start the
engine?
> How many revolutions does it take to suck the oil out? Have I damaged the
> engine? Thanks, Jeff Classic IV 912UL
>
>
> Jeffrey Puls
> pulsair@mindspring.com
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Lock |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Jeff
Rick had correct answers to your questions. As far as how many times the prop
must be pullled through is dependent on how much air leaks out of the cylinders
and into the crankcase. The pressure in the crankcase then pushes the oil out
of the rear oil outlet into the oil tank. There the oil is seperated from
the air and the low tube in oil tank the sucks the oil out of the tank, through
the oil cooler (or oil cooler bypass) through the oil filter and into the oil
pump. Then through the galleys and back into the crankcase where it all starts
over.
Jim Shumaker
Jeffrey Puls <pulsair@mindspring.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls"
I went out to the airport to fly the Fox. It has been a while so I cycled the prop
by hand. On the third revolution the prop locked. I removed the number four
lower plug and oil came out. I changed my oil on the annual and followed the
precise instructions in the maintenance manual on page 27 (12-00-00). I vented
the lubrication by precisely following the instructions on page 28 (12-00-00).
On page 26 (12-00-00) it discusses checking the oil and it states in part,
"Before checking the oil make sure that there is no oil in the crankcase. Prior
to oil level check turn the propeller several times by hand to transfer all
the oil from the engine to the oil tank."
If turning the prop is suppose to remove oil from the crankcase how can oil be
coming from the spark plug hole. I am confused. Does anyone have any idea what
is going on? I have 240 hours TT on the engine. Could I have an oil hose routed
wrong? Did I wait too long between flights to start the engine? How many revolutions
does it take to suck the oil out? Have I damaged the engine? Thanks,
Jeff Classic IV 912UL
Jeffrey Puls
pulsair@mindspring.com
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