---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/27/05: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:42 AM - [Off-Topic] Frappr Map (Michel Verheughe) 2. 04:24 AM - Re: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map (Ben Baltrusaitis) 3. 04:55 AM - Re: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map (Lyle Persels) 4. 05:25 AM - Re: Frappr Map (Clifford Begnaud) 5. 05:46 AM - Re: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map (Donald STEVENSON) 6. 05:52 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Don Smythe) 7. 05:52 AM - Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system (Donald STEVENSON) 8. 06:03 AM - Re: Kitfox IV seat (Don Smythe) 9. 06:13 AM - Re: trailer suspension (kurt schrader) 10. 06:21 AM - Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system (kurt schrader) 11. 06:54 AM - Re: trailer suspension (jareds@verizon.net) 12. 06:54 AM - Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system (Donald STEVENSON) 13. 07:39 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Donald STEVENSON) 14. 08:14 AM - Re: trailer suspension (flier) 15. 08:25 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Don Pearsall) 16. 08:53 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Guy Buchanan) 17. 08:53 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Guy Buchanan) 18. 08:53 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Guy Buchanan) 19. 09:46 AM - Re: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system (kurt schrader) 20. 09:54 AM - 2001 Kitfox 4 - 1200 with 912 UL For sale (Jay Fabian) 21. 10:01 AM - Re: trailer suspension (kurt schrader) 22. 10:08 AM - Re: trailer suspension (Rex Hefferan) 23. 10:53 AM - fabric covering (Gerald Jantzi) 24. 11:46 AM - Re: trailer suspension (David Savener) 25. 12:24 PM - Trailer suspension (Graeme Toft) 26. 12:50 PM - Re: trailer suspension (David Dawe) 27. 01:40 PM - Just A Few More Days Left; Lagging Behind Last Year... (Matt Dralle) 28. 04:37 PM - Fuel system (Rex & Jan Shaw) 29. 06:06 PM - Re: Windmill prop (Randy Daughenbaugh) 30. 06:21 PM - Hydraulic Lock (Jeffrey Puls) 31. 07:05 PM - Re: Hydraulic Lock (Rick) 32. 08:07 PM - Re: Hydraulic Lock (Jeffrey Puls) 33. 10:07 PM - Re: Hydraulic Lock (James Shumaker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:00 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe [Off Kitfox topic] On Nov 27, 2005, at 1:35 AM, Donald STEVENSON wrote: > > -Hi Cliff, I too am in Canada, and after many tries to > sign in I gave up. I'm also using a Mac. Hello Don, I am too on a Mac and I experience problems. Not that I can't register but that my photo appears without the "Map It" link under. I am currently talking to Ben, off-list, to check what can be done. FYI, I see the map, the photos, etc. I am on Mac OS X, using Safari as a browser. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:31 AM PST US From: "Ben Baltrusaitis" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" Michel and all Mac users, I received a reply from the Frappr Map site owners and they said: "We've had very conflicting reports concerning Macs and Mac browsers. It works for some and doesn't for others and we have only one test Mac. I guess it's a real roll of the dice whether it works or not". I'm sorry, but that's all I can do as I'm just a go-between administrator. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Michel Verheughe To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:41 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe [Off Kitfox topic] On Nov 27, 2005, at 1:35 AM, Donald STEVENSON wrote: > > -Hi Cliff, I too am in Canada, and after many tries to > sign in I gave up. I'm also using a Mac. Hello Don, I am too on a Mac and I experience problems. Not that I can't register but that my photo appears without the "Map It" link under. I am currently talking to Ben, off-list, to check what can be done. FYI, I see the map, the photos, etc. I am on Mac OS X, using Safari as a browser. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:38 AM PST US From: Lyle Persels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels For Info, I'm using an iMac w/OS X Version 10.4.3 and Safari. Frappr works fine for me. This pin map is a great idea. I just added my location to the map. Lyle Persels On 11 27, 05, at 6:22 AM, Ben Baltrusaitis wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" > > > Michel and all Mac users, > I received a reply from the Frappr Map site owners and they said: > "We've had very conflicting reports concerning Macs and Mac > browsers. It works for some and doesn't for others and we have > only one test Mac. I guess it's a real roll of the dice whether it > works or not". > > I'm sorry, but that's all I can do as I'm just a go-between > administrator. > Ben > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michel Verheughe > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:41 AM > Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > [Off Kitfox topic] > > On Nov 27, 2005, at 1:35 AM, Donald STEVENSON wrote: >> >> -Hi Cliff, I too am in Canada, and after many tries to >> sign in I gave up. I'm also using a Mac. > > Hello Don, I am too on a Mac and I experience problems. Not that I > can't register but that my photo appears without the "Map It" link > under. I am currently talking to Ben, off-list, to check what can be > done. FYI, I see the map, the photos, etc. I am on Mac OS X, using > Safari as a browser. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:27 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Frappr Map --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" I don't have anything to do with it. Sorry, Cliff -----Hello Cliff I am located in Canada, having problems signing in. Kitfox ll 321 Dave ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:06 AM PST US From: Donald STEVENSON Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON -Lyle, My Mac setup is the same as yours but with Version 10.3.9 and Safari , I can't see the map or register, Don, Ontario Canada -- Lyle Persels wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels > > > For Info, I'm using an iMac w/OS X Version 10.4.3 > and Safari. Frappr > works fine for me. This pin map is a great idea. I > just added my > location to the map. > > Lyle Persels > > On 11 27, 05, at 6:22 AM, Ben Baltrusaitis wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben > Baltrusaitis" > > > > > > Michel and all Mac users, > > I received a reply from the Frappr Map site owners > and they said: > > "We've had very conflicting reports concerning > Macs and Mac > > browsers. It works for some and doesn't for > others and we have > > only one test Mac. I guess it's a real roll of > the dice whether it > > works or not". > > > > I'm sorry, but that's all I can do as I'm just a > go-between > > administrator. > > Ben > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Michel Verheughe > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:41 AM > > Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-Topic] Frappr Map > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel > Verheughe > > > > > > [Off Kitfox topic] > > > > On Nov 27, 2005, at 1:35 AM, Donald STEVENSON > wrote: > >> > >> -Hi Cliff, I too am in Canada, and after many > tries to > >> sign in I gave up. I'm also using a Mac. > > > > Hello Don, I am too on a Mac and I experience > problems. Not that I > > can't register but that my photo appears without > the "Map It" link > > under. I am currently talking to Ben, off-list, > to check what can be > > done. FYI, I see the map, the photos, etc. I am > on Mac OS X, using > > Safari as a browser. > > > > Cheers, > > Michel > > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:33 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Graeme, I never did get around to building a trailer but did put a lot of thought into what I considered the perfect trailer. I think the trailer should be built to ride like a luxury car. You might even consider going to a junk yard and purchase a couple rear end suspensions of such a car and use it for the trailer (didn't look too much into this idea). I would definitely use a dual axle setup. I believe duals will bridge a hole in the road better than a single. The trailer must have built in fuel tanks to dump the wings into with an electric transfer pump for refueling. The tail needs a ramp to get it high enough to level things out (load tail first). I even considered having the three points of the plane (mains and tailwheel) rest on the trailer with their own separate suspension pads in addition to the regular trailer suspension. A good set of wing supports (never haul with fuel in the wings). An electric winch for loading. A MUST,,,,, never haul with the weight of the tail on the tail spring. Need to design the system where the tail wheel drops off the ramp and the weight is being supported where the tail spring attaches to the fuselage. Also considered an intermediate fuselage support between the tail wheel and the mains (we did have a case where the fuselage bent right in the middle when hauling) I guess that about covers my ideas. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Toft" Subject: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" > > Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for my fox and have > referenced the plans and photos on sports flight however no one mentions > the type of suspension they are using. This must be a fairly critical > issue to consider due to loadings that the aircraft would experience on > rough surfaces. I felt that a single axle with one leaf spring would be > softer riding but I see some people are using dual axles. Can I have some > comments from those that have experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS > Think the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all are and what > your aircraft look like even if it is mostly 12000 miles away. > > Cheers. > Graeme Toft > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:34 AM PST US From: Donald STEVENSON Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON Thanks Glenn, My tanks are installed, but I will look into the product you mentioned, sounds like what I need, Thanks again, Don Stevenson --- Glenn Horne wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" > > > Don, > Glenn Horne here. I have two 13 gal. tanks in my > model II. > That were 1990 tanks. Built the aircraft but didn't > do anything to > the tanks. After all finish one (the left) leaked. I > slosh the tank(after > cleaning it good) > with some tank sloshing compound from a company > called Caswell Inc. > It did the job. If yours are not installed now is > the time to slosh them. > The company web sit is www.caswellplating.com. > On the first page click on the tab that says (repair > products) There you > will see epoxy gas > tank sealer. > Hope this helps. > Glenn Horne Model II 582 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donald STEVENSON" > To: "Kitfox List" > Subject: Kitfox-List: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald > STEVENSON > > > > Hi everyone, Because of the problems with fuel > flow > > from the wing tanks to the header tank under some > > conditions, I was thinking an electric aux fuel > pump > > might help. Any thoughts on this would be a help > as I > > will soon be ready to cover and would like to make > any > > changes before then, Thanks Don. > > > > PS. I have 2 fiberglass 13 gal wing tanks in the > kit I > > am building (Manufactured Mid 1992) and I don't > have a > > lot of faith in them, anything I can or should do > ??? > > Thanks again. > > > > > > > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:21 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV seat --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" I use two nylon support straps under each person. It was pointed out years ago that one strap might tend to cause personnel injury in case of a hard landing. One strap under each buttock will give better support. When installing the straps, make them tight enough to almost support the seat and use the tie wraps (or whatever) to pull the seat down into place. This makes the support straps start supporting right away. As far as the seat already being cracked, try repairing making a "M" support in certain areas on the bottom. Apply a couple parallel lengths of balsa wood about 1/4" to 1/2" high and separated about 1/8" or more apart (like railroad tracks). Then uses some 2" wide fiberglass tape and epoxy over the tracks. Push the tape down into the 1/8" gap formed by the balsa/plywood. Makes a very strong added support. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV seat > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tc9008@aol.com > > The fiberglass seat has a crack in the center. Is there any support > braces I > can use or support straps? > Travis > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:22 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Graeme, The number of wheels determines both the number of bounces transmitted to the trailor and the severity of the bounce. With a single axel, each wheel will transmit the entire bounce to the trailor when one wheel hits a bump. The trailor moves up and down the entire bump height, or at least the amount enertia and shock absorbers lets it. If you have 2 tandem wheels, you get 2 bumps, but each is 1/2 as severe. As one wheel hits the bump, the other maintains 1/2 the trailor load and stabilizes it. This assumes the axels are suspend by a spring at a point 1/2 way between them. Then there are shocks and tire pressure to consider. You can have softer tires because each only carries 1/2 the load, and 2 shocks per side on a tandem trailor. I think that you will find that 2 axels with tandem wheels will give a much better ride to your plane, if you are going over rough surfaces. Single axel is fine and a little more efficient on smooth roads only. I am planning on building a tandem trailor in the future myself. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Graeme Toft wrote: > Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for my > fox and have referenced the plans and photos on > sports flight however no one mentions the type of > suspension they are using. This must be a fairly > critical issue to consider due to loadings that the > aircraft would experience on rough surfaces. I felt > that a single axle with one leaf spring would be > softer riding but I see some people are using dual > axles. Can I have some comments from those that have > experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS Think > the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all > are and what your aircraft look like even if it is > mostly 12000 miles away. > > Cheers. > Graeme Toft __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:53 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Don, I have some problems with flow from my left tank only. Considered putting pumps at the tank outlet, but didnt because the entire fuel system will be pressurized past that. My main worry was the header tanks ability to take the pressure. Gravity flow to it inflates it a little, but higher pressure might be a problem. Dont know, but didnt want to try it yet. Some people have squeeze bulb primers on the lines coming from their tanks. You might ask about these, depending on your flow problems. Sure they are hand operated, but they only add pressure when needed too and will get the flow started for you. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Donald STEVENSON wrote: > Hi everyone, Because of the problems with fuel flow > from the wing tanks to the header tank under some > conditions, I was thinking an electric aux fuel pump > might help. Any thoughts on this would be a help as > I will soon be ready to cover and would like to make > any changes before then, Thanks Don. __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:12 AM PST US From: "jareds@verizon.net" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jareds@verizon.net" I've experimented with several trailers. One long trip did massive damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension. It also had a dual axle which only added to the stiffness. As much give as the plane has it doesnt distribute it well in "wings folded" mode. With an extra long hitch on the typical Kitfox trailer I relocated furniture and plane from DC to SD without incident. Much smoother ride especially for the tail. Where the tail rests I also built up the cradle so that i don't have to cinch it down so hard. That allows the natural spring action of the tail to cushion the ride too. Just my experience. Jared Graeme Toft wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" > >Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for my fox and have referenced the plans and photos on sports flight however no one mentions the type of suspension they are using. This must be a fairly critical issue to consider due to loadings that the aircraft would experience on rough surfaces. I felt that a single axle with one leaf spring would be softer riding but I see some people are using dual axles. Can I have some comments from those that have experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS Think the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all are and what your aircraft look like even if it is mostly 12000 miles away. > >Cheers. >Graeme Toft > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:25 AM PST US From: Donald STEVENSON Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON Hi Kirt, I'm still in the construction stage, so don't have any fuel problems YET! My header is the round alum. type so I don't think pressure should be any problem. Regards, Don --- kurt schrader wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > > Hi Don, > > I have some problems with flow from my left tank > only. > Considered putting pumps at the tank outlet, but > didnt because the entire fuel system will be > pressurized past that. My main worry was the header > tanks ability to take the pressure. Gravity flow to > it inflates it a little, but higher pressure might > be > a problem. Dont know, but didnt want to try it yet. > > Some people have squeeze bulb primers on the lines > coming from their tanks. You might ask about these, > depending on your flow problems. Sure they are hand > operated, but they only add pressure when needed too > and will get the flow started for you. > > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo > > --- Donald STEVENSON wrote: > > > Hi everyone, Because of the problems with fuel > flow > > from the wing tanks to the header tank under some > > conditions, I was thinking an electric aux fuel > pump > > might help. Any thoughts on this would be a help > as > > I will soon be ready to cover and would like to > make > > any changes before then, Thanks Don. > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:16 AM PST US From: Donald STEVENSON Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON Hi Jared, Can you tell me where I can see pictures and details of a "Typical Kitfox trailer? Thanks Don Stevenson, Ontario Canada --- "jareds@verizon.net" wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > "jareds@verizon.net" > > I've experimented with several trailers. One long > trip did massive > damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension. It > also had a dual axle > which only added to the stiffness. > As much give as the plane has it doesnt distribute > it well in "wings > folded" mode. > With an extra long hitch on the typical Kitfox > trailer I relocated > furniture and plane from DC to SD without incident. > Much smoother ride especially for the tail. Where > the tail rests I also > built up the cradle so that i don't have to cinch it > down so hard. That > allows the natural spring action of the tail to > cushion the ride too. > > Just my experience. > > Jared > Graeme Toft wrote: > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" > > > > >Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for > my fox and have referenced the plans and photos on > sports flight however no one mentions the type of > suspension they are using. This must be a fairly > critical issue to consider due to loadings that the > aircraft would experience on rough surfaces. I felt > that a single axle with one leaf spring would be > softer riding but I see some people are using dual > axles. Can I have some comments from those that have > experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS Think > the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all > are and what your aircraft look like even if it is > mostly 12000 miles away. > > > >Cheers. > >Graeme Toft > > > > > > > > > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:47 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" There are some pics of the trailer I built out at http://www.foxflier.com/kitfox/more_tc.htm It rides good and has worked well over the past 9 yrs. Three other guys have used it to haul 'Foxes they've purchased in other states with no probs. Regards -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Donald STEVENSON Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON Hi Jared, Can you tell me where I can see pictures and details of a "Typical Kitfox trailer? Thanks Don Stevenson, Ontario Canada --- "jareds@verizon.net" wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > "jareds@verizon.net" > > I've experimented with several trailers. One long > trip did massive > damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension. It > also had a dual axle > which only added to the stiffness. > As much give as the plane has it doesnt distribute > it well in "wings > folded" mode. > With an extra long hitch on the typical Kitfox > trailer I relocated > furniture and plane from DC to SD without incident. > Much smoother ride especially for the tail. Where > the tail rests I also > built up the cradle so that i don't have to cinch it > down so hard. That > allows the natural spring action of the tail to > cushion the ride too. > > Just my experience. > > Jared > Graeme Toft wrote: > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" > > > > >Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for > my fox and have referenced the plans and photos on > sports flight however no one mentions the type of > suspension they are using. This must be a fairly > critical issue to consider due to loadings that the > aircraft would experience on rough surfaces. I felt > that a single axle with one leaf spring would be > softer riding but I see some people are using dual > axles. Can I have some comments from those that have > experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS Think > the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all > are and what your aircraft look like even if it is > mostly 12000 miles away. > > > >Cheers. > >Graeme Toft > > > > > > > > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:17 AM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" There are a few pics of trailers on the SportFlight photo site. Just go to http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main and click on trailers. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donald STEVENSON Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON Hi Jared, Can you tell me where I can see pictures and details of a "Typical Kitfox trailer? Thanks Don Stevenson, Ontario Canada --- "jareds@verizon.net" wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > "jareds@verizon.net" > > I've experimented with several trailers. One long > trip did massive > damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension. It > also had a dual axle > which only added to the stiffness. > As much give as the plane has it doesnt distribute > it well in "wings > folded" mode. > With an extra long hitch on the typical Kitfox > trailer I relocated > furniture and plane from DC to SD without incident. > Much smoother ride especially for the tail. Where > the tail rests I also > built up the cradle so that i don't have to cinch it > down so hard. That > allows the natural spring action of the tail to > cushion the ride too. > > Just my experience. > > Jared > Graeme Toft wrote: > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" > > > > >Hi Guys, Im considering having a trailer make for > my fox and have referenced the plans and photos on > sports flight however no one mentions the type of > suspension they are using. This must be a fairly > critical issue to consider due to loadings that the > aircraft would experience on rough surfaces. I felt > that a single axle with one leaf spring would be > softer riding but I see some people are using dual > axles. Can I have some comments from those that have > experience with this issue. Thanks Guys. PS Think > the frappr idea is great. Nice to know where you all > are and what your aircraft look like even if it is > mostly 12000 miles away. > > > >Cheers. > >Graeme Toft > > > > > > > > > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:51 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 11:54 PM 11/26/2005, you wrote: > I felt that a single axle with one leaf spring would be softer riding > but I see some people are using dual axles. Can I have some comments from > those that have experience with this issue. My toy box has two axles, both torsion bar. There is no shock, but I'm told that the rubber bushings used to support the axles provide some damping. I suspect the entire assembly is available off-the-shelf, as they are ubiquitous on toy boxes in Southern California. The only caveat is that my toy box weighs about 3800 pounds with a 7000 pound gross. A small car trailer wouldn't need near as much support. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:54 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 07:38 AM 11/27/2005, you wrote: >Hi Jared, Can you tell me where I can see pictures and >details of a "Typical Kitfox trailer? Thanks Don >Stevenson, Ontario Canada My very a-typical Kitfox trailer is visible on the Frappr site. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:54 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 06:52 AM 11/27/2005, you wrote: >One long trip did massive >damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension. Jared, Would you elaborate? I'll be running mine around soon and don't want to experiment. I intend to have the tail and wing root support, but have been wondering if I should build some kind of cradle for the aft end of the wings. I'm wondering if the fuselage bend Don Smythe was referring to was caused by the wing moments. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:59 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: M4/1200 Speedster Fule system --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Don, In that case, wing tank pumps might work well for you. You can control tank balance by only turning one on at a time. The pumps internal check valves might keep you from getting cross flow in case of bad tank cap seals or parking on a slope. If they flow thru well when off, you still have gravity pressure in case they fail. Seems like a good plan so far. Dont know why not. They will still unport if nose low and low on fuel, but should regain flow faster because of self priming. With both wing pumps on, the pump with the higher pressure will be the only one feeding though. It will require more monitering and balancing. Those are the only things I can think of. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Donald STEVENSON wrote: > Hi Kirt, I'm still in the construction stage, so > don't have any fuel problems YET! My header is the round > alum. type so I don't think pressure should be any > problem. Regards, Don __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:44 AM PST US From: "Jay Fabian" Subject: Kitfox-List: 2001 Kitfox 4 - 1200 with 912 UL For sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" Hi List, I have my Kitfox 4 - 1200 for sale now. Built in 2001, 135 TT, BRS........I have been back and forth for a year or so. But I have put a whole 5 hours total time this year and 18 last year on it. It needs to fly more. Contact me off list for details, pics, and $$. Negotiable I am in Mass. Thanks Jay ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:48 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Right jareds, If you dont match the suspension to the load, it wont matter much how many axels you have. A trailor built for 3500lb cars or a heavy boat will be way too stiff for a 700+/- lb kitfox and beat it to shreads. Suspension made for 1000 lbs carried per tire will hardly flex under a foxs weight. But with Don S.trailor plans, carrying a plane on a trailor that weighs maybe 1000 lbs gross can be done by 4 wheels carrying only 250 lb each. Soft suspension and tires will work great then. I like Dons other ideas about adding more cushions too. In my case, I want a covered trailor, which will be heavier. I just want the protection from weather and rocks. On my move to Florida, I was pelted by large rocks from 3 houses that passed me doing over 70 mph! Thanks FEMA. Yes, they were mobile homes with rocks on the roof and they were in the passing lane doing 80! Crash! Bang! Should I apply for hurricane relief? Kurt S. __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:24 AM PST US From: Rex Hefferan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex Hefferan You should figure a weight and balance for the trailer too. I would suggest that a trailer suspension would best be designed to support the total weight of the load you anticipate carrying. That includes any on trailer fuel storage system plus battery and pump to transfer fuel to/from wing tanks, where that load is placed on the trailer, etc. Each Kitfox built will have a different weight, so the best you might say is a certain trailer suspension is best for a range of Kitfoxes depending on their weight and where the airplane is positioned on that trailer. Adapting suspension from a car may not result in a soft ride if the weight is substantially different from the car it for which it was designed. Suspension travel determines how deep of a pothole or height of a bump can be soaked up before it significantly impacts the load. Don't forget that some of the ride is dependent on how much hitch tongue weight you can have and the suspension stiffness of the towing vehicle. Wheel size and tire selection has an effect too. Think about how tire selection works for airplanes designed to fly off of only paved runways verses tundra tires. I have single and tandem axle trailers and I agree that a tandem axle rides much smoother. Rex Colorado ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:15 AM PST US From: Gerald Jantzi Subject: Kitfox-List: fabric covering --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gerald Jantzi Thank you for the input Rick. Next question. Do I follow the Poly fiber manual for the Concave bottom wings? I put a straight edge on the Rib Capstrip the concave is about 1/4 inch. My fuel tanks are nearly flush with the ribs on each side. SS says use Poly Brush on tanks. Should I use Poly tac instead? Has anybody got the poly-fiber video they would like to sell ? I am missing instruction for wheel pant installation is there some way to get that part of the manual thanks again Gerald Jantzi --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:15 AM PST US From: "David Savener" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" I used a flat trailer with stiff suspension but I cushioned mine by laying inner tubes on the floor, parking the mains and tail over the tubes then blowing them up. I varied the pressure in the tubes to get the cushion needed. Later I put tubes in tires without the rims. the stiffness of the tires helped stabilize everything but still gave me cushion. It took just a small amount of pressure with the tubes(inside the tires) under the landing gear. Dave S ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Buchanan To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > At 11:54 PM 11/26/2005, you wrote: > I felt that a single axle with one leaf spring would be softer riding > but I see some people are using dual axles. Can I have some comments from > those that have experience with this issue. My toy box has two axles, both torsion bar. There is no shock, but I'm told that the rubber bushings used to support the axles provide some damping. I suspect the entire assembly is available off-the-shelf, as they are ubiquitous on toy boxes in Southern California. The only caveat is that my toy box weighs about 3800 pounds with a 7000 pound gross. A small car trailer wouldn't need near as much support. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:14 PM PST US From: "Graeme Toft" Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" This is obviously an issue that many have thoughts about. The reason I raised this issue is because of the damage done to my first fox when carrying it the 300 kilometres home on a flat bed car trailer after purchasing it. It was an model 1 with timber flapperon hangers that were in perfect condition prior to leaving for home but on inspection after arriving, 6 were cracked. This I believe was due to the vertical position of the flapperon which prohibits them from flexing when the wings are in the folded position. It was also noted that the trailer was far to ridged for such a light load which subjected the plane to a lot of shock loading. I suppose shock loading could also be translated a G loading which if correct appeared to be far in excess of what the plane was rated at. These comments have been great. Thanks guys. Cheers Graeme Toft ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:44 PM PST US From: "David Dawe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" I moved my Kitfox 800 miles,used trailer converted from camper type gear.Excellent ride. >From: Guy Buchanan >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trailer suspension >Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 08:49:08 -0800 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > >At 06:52 AM 11/27/2005, you wrote: > >One long trip did massive > >damage to the plane with a "stiff" suspension. > >Jared, > Would you elaborate? I'll be running mine around soon and don't >want to experiment. I intend to have the tail and wing root support, but >have been wondering if I should build some kind of cradle for the aft end >of the wings. I'm wondering if the fuselage bend Don Smythe was referring >to was caused by the wing moments. > > >Guy Buchanan >K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > >Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:46 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Just A Few More Days Left; Lagging Behind Last Year... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, There are just four more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response has been very good, but we are behind last year as far as the number of people that have made a Contribution and as a percentage of the total number of subscribers. Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists and the *only* means I have of keeping these Lists running through your Contributions during this Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:25 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel system --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Hi everyone, Because of the problems with fuel flow from the wing tanks to the header tank under some conditions, I was thinking an electric aux fuel pump might help. Any thoughts on this would be a help as I will soon be ready to cover and would like to make any changes before then, Thanks Don. PS. I have 2 fiberglass 13 gal wing tanks in the kit I am building (Manufactured Mid 1992) and I don't have a lot of faith in them, anything I can or should do ??? Thanks again. Hi ! Don, I have a MKIV/582 and am in the process of modifying the fuel system somewhat. I'll just outline what I'm doing in case you find any usefull ideas or info. First my standard system is a 3 litre header tank behind the seat.and two 49 litre fibreglass wing tanks with a breather from the header to inside top of the right hand tank. Now basically this works fine right down to zero fuel IF it's done this way. The only problem with the fibreglass tanks I have is seeing fuel level through the glass ends. My plane was built by a mechanical engineer and originally had aluminium tanks that split in flight. He wrecked the plane landing it in a hurry in tiger country due to fuel flowing over him and his passenger. The story goes that he threatened to sue Skystar and they gave him a new airframe. So I'm very much in favour of the glass tanks over the aluminium ones. From this list it is obvious though that you can get pinholes in the glass and some fuels might be a problem. However I think these problems are addressable. Refer to this list. Seeing the fuel level through the ends in my opinion needs some thought. Perhaps either an external sight tube but if I was going that way I'd want to do it before installation. Some guys with glass tanks are putting 35 or 50mm reflector lamps up against the tank. This shines through and lights the tank very brightly from inside and you can clearly see the fuel level. The lamp needs to be operated by push button so it can't get left turned on and overheat the glass. I'm actually seeing what I can do like this with an ultrabright white LED. Also in relation to running out of fuel I'm installing an optoelectrical sensor at the top of the header tank to warn when I only have that much [ 3 litres ] left. Not much but a big help maybe. As well as that sensor flashing a LED on the panel I'm considering a beep beep in the intercom. I also want to run an electric pump for backup and maybe help get an instant start if I needed to take care with a low battery. I have got a 3 outlet pulse pump to replace the 2 outlet. I'll feed the Facet electric pump into the third outlet. sounds strange but actually I'm just using that outlet pump chamber as a "T" piece to the carbies. The facet pump with a srew on filter will mount under the seat and draw fuel from the header tank. Now the model pump I'm using is important. It's a 40171. This flows no fuel in either direction unless power is supplied. Therefore the fuel switch also acts as a valve. I'm not feeding it in series with the pulse pump as pressures are additive. Perhaps you can get some usefull hints from all this. Have fun, Rex from Australia. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:08 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Windmill prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" I don't want to encourage non-maintenance here, but... It really doesn't take much from the battery to start the engine if you are still flying. At almost any speed all it takes is a "bump" of the starter button and you have a running engine. Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Robertson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Windmill prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" Ken, The 912 is not only a high compression engine (well, compared to a lyc or cont. it is!) it is also gear driven which makes it much harder for the prop to spin the engine. Couple that with a light propeller and you are going to be required to have a healthy airpseed in order to get the prop spinning using just the forward airspeed of the aircraft. Yup, a good battery is a real good idea. Better idea is to not have it quit in the first place (big smile)... regards Bob Robertson Light Engine Services Ltd. Rotax Service Center Aero Control Enterprises, Inc. St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8 Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164 Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE) www.rtx-av-engines.ca www.aerocontrols.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Windmill prop > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" > > Years ago I had an RV-4 with a recently rebuilt O-360 and a light weight > wood prop. The engine stopped on two separate occasions. Probably carb > ice. In both cases the prop stopped dead. My mechanic thought it was > because of a combination of a tight engine (high compression) and light > prop. You can bet after that I always made sure I had a healthy battery. > Would the same reasoning apply to a 912? > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:16 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey Puls" Subject: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" I went out to the airport to fly the Fox. It has been a while so I cycled the prop by hand. On the third revolution the prop locked. I removed the number four lower plug and oil came out. I changed my oil on the annual and followed the precise instructions in the maintenance manual on page 27 (12-00-00). I vented the lubrication by precisely following the instructions on page 28 (12-00-00). On page 26 (12-00-00) it discusses checking the oil and it states in part, "Before checking the oil make sure that there is no oil in the crankcase. Prior to oil level check turn the propeller several times by hand to transfer all the oil from the engine to the oil tank." If turning the prop is suppose to remove oil from the crankcase how can oil be coming from the spark plug hole. I am confused. Does anyone have any idea what is going on? I have 240 hours TT on the engine. Could I have an oil hose routed wrong? Did I wait too long between flights to start the engine? How many revolutions does it take to suck the oil out? Have I damaged the engine? Thanks, Jeff Classic IV 912UL Jeffrey Puls pulsair@mindspring.com ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:48 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" I am sure if you turned it by hand you have not broken anything. If you used the started then rods can get bent or broken. I don't have a 912 engine. Reading the post it sounds as if oil can drain from your oil tank into the crank case. Possibly this resulted from a leaking check valve, not sure. If it did then oil could seeping through worn valve guides or pistons rings and fill into the combustion chamber. If it were a cracked block or head you would have had a lot of smoke on your last flight or at least a pretty fouled out plug. I think if you check you tank/ dry sump system and clear the crankcase you should be OK. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Puls Subject: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" I went out to the airport to fly the Fox. It has been a while so I cycled the prop by hand. On the third revolution the prop locked. I removed the number four lower plug and oil came out. I changed my oil on the annual and followed the precise instructions in the maintenance manual on page 27 (12-00-00). I vented the lubrication by precisely following the instructions on page 28 (12-00-00). On page 26 (12-00-00) it discusses checking the oil and it states in part, "Before checking the oil make sure that there is no oil in the crankcase. Prior to oil level check turn the propeller several times by hand to transfer all the oil from the engine to the oil tank." If turning the prop is suppose to remove oil from the crankcase how can oil be coming from the spark plug hole. I am confused. Does anyone have any idea what is going on? I have 240 hours TT on the engine. Could I have an oil hose routed wrong? Did I wait too long between flights to start the engine? How many revolutions does it take to suck the oil out? Have I damaged the engine? Thanks, Jeff Classic IV 912UL Jeffrey Puls pulsair@mindspring.com ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:14 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey Puls" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" Thanks Rick. Jeff > [Original Message] > From: Rick > To: > Date: 11/27/2005 10:05:27 PM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" > > I am sure if you turned it by hand you have not broken anything. If you used > the started then rods can get bent or broken. I don't have a 912 engine. > Reading the post it sounds as if oil can drain from your oil tank into the > crank case. Possibly this resulted from a leaking check valve, not sure. If > it did then oil could seeping through worn valve guides or pistons rings and > fill into the combustion chamber. If it were a cracked block or head you > would have had a lot of smoke on your last flight or at least a pretty > fouled out plug. I think if you check you tank/ dry sump system and clear > the crankcase you should be OK. > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Puls > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" > > I went out to the airport to fly the Fox. It has been a while so I cycled > the prop by hand. On the third revolution the prop locked. I removed the > number four lower plug and oil came out. I changed my oil on the annual and > followed the precise instructions in the maintenance manual on page 27 > (12-00-00). I vented the lubrication by precisely following the instructions > on page 28 (12-00-00). On page 26 (12-00-00) it discusses checking the oil > and it states in part, "Before checking the oil make sure that there is no > oil in the crankcase. Prior to oil level check turn the propeller several > times by hand to transfer all the oil from the engine to the oil tank." > > If turning the prop is suppose to remove oil from the crankcase how can oil > be coming from the spark plug hole. I am confused. Does anyone have any idea > what is going on? I have 240 hours TT on the engine. Could I have an oil > hose routed wrong? Did I wait too long between flights to start the engine? > How many revolutions does it take to suck the oil out? Have I damaged the > engine? Thanks, Jeff Classic IV 912UL > > > Jeffrey Puls > pulsair@mindspring.com > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:55 PM PST US From: James Shumaker Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock --> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker Hi Jeff Rick had correct answers to your questions. As far as how many times the prop must be pullled through is dependent on how much air leaks out of the cylinders and into the crankcase. The pressure in the crankcase then pushes the oil out of the rear oil outlet into the oil tank. There the oil is seperated from the air and the low tube in oil tank the sucks the oil out of the tank, through the oil cooler (or oil cooler bypass) through the oil filter and into the oil pump. Then through the galleys and back into the crankcase where it all starts over. Jim Shumaker Jeffrey Puls wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" I went out to the airport to fly the Fox. It has been a while so I cycled the prop by hand. On the third revolution the prop locked. I removed the number four lower plug and oil came out. I changed my oil on the annual and followed the precise instructions in the maintenance manual on page 27 (12-00-00). I vented the lubrication by precisely following the instructions on page 28 (12-00-00). On page 26 (12-00-00) it discusses checking the oil and it states in part, "Before checking the oil make sure that there is no oil in the crankcase. Prior to oil level check turn the propeller several times by hand to transfer all the oil from the engine to the oil tank." If turning the prop is suppose to remove oil from the crankcase how can oil be coming from the spark plug hole. I am confused. Does anyone have any idea what is going on? I have 240 hours TT on the engine. Could I have an oil hose routed wrong? Did I wait too long between flights to start the engine? How many revolutions does it take to suck the oil out? Have I damaged the engine? Thanks, Jeff Classic IV 912UL Jeffrey Puls pulsair@mindspring.com