Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The Lists"...? (Matt Dralle)
2. 03:56 AM - Header tank (Dill Family)
3. 04:37 AM - Header tank (Dill Family)
4. 05:32 AM - Re: Hydraulic Lock (Jeffrey Puls)
5. 07:57 AM - Re: Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The Lists"...? (Rick)
6. 07:58 AM - Re: Header tank (Rick)
7. 08:59 AM - Re: Fuel system (jareds@verizon.net)
8. 10:13 AM - Re: Header tank (Dill Family)
9. 03:01 PM - Re: fabric covering (W Duke)
10. 03:32 PM - Model II Header Tank (Dee Young)
11. 03:45 PM - Re: fabric covering (Randy Daughenbaugh)
12. 05:00 PM - Re: Lokking for a six gallon wing tank (David Savener)
13. 05:59 PM - Re: Lokking for a six gallon wing tank (John Perry)
14. 06:27 PM - Re: Lokking for a six gallon wing tank (jdmcbean)
15. 07:46 PM - Re: Header tank (tony fiacco)
16. 08:40 PM - Wing Tips (Petergleason@aol.com)
17. 09:02 PM - Re: Wing Tips (jdmcbean)
18. 09:34 PM - Re: Wing Tips (kurt schrader)
19. 10:43 PM - Re: Wing Tips (jdmcbean)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The Lists"...? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for over 20 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I've also had a rather extensive background
in web development and CGI design during this period.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 50 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For the upmost in flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own
servers here locally. Other support systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched
network infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda
spam filter, a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial business T1 Internet
connection with static addressing.
The computer servers found here include two, dual processor Xeon Linux systems
dedicated to the email and web functions respectfully, and another P4 Linux system
serving as a remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for
an on-line, hard drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terabytes of storage. This
entire system is protected by multiple commercial-grade uninterrupted power
supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are available even during a local
power outage!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. Here's a new composite photo of the
List Computer Center following this Summer's upgrades!
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It
is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keep it running!
Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dill Family" <Dillfamily@sbcglobal.net>
I have lots of questions. Before doing all that typing, I will make sure my messages
make it to the forum. JRD
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dill Family" <Dillfamily@sbcglobal.net>
I have a model 2 (sn 672), purchased on EBAY by my father before he passed away.
Total time is 220 hours. Most of its flying was between 1998 and 2002. The previous
owner (s) took no real effort to comply with service bulletins, which
leaves me with metal tanks and a header tank behind the firewall. Embedded in
service bulletin 29 is the requirement to move the header tank to behind the seat.
Here is my question for the moment, does anybody know where I can get such
a tank given current vendor status?
Jeffrey R. Dill
I
______(_)______
O O
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Lock |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
Thanks Jim. Jeff
> [Original Message]
> From: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 11/28/2005 1:07:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic Lock
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker
<jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Hi Jeff
>
> Rick had correct answers to your questions. As far as how many times the
prop must be pullled through is dependent on how much air leaks out of the
cylinders and into the crankcase. The pressure in the crankcase then
pushes the oil out of the rear oil outlet into the oil tank. There the oil
is seperated from the air and the low tube in oil tank the sucks the oil
out of the tank, through the oil cooler (or oil cooler bypass) through the
oil filter and into the oil pump. Then through the galleys and back into
the crankcase where it all starts over.
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
> Jeffrey Puls <pulsair@mindspring.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls"
>
>
> I went out to the airport to fly the Fox. It has been a while so I cycled
the prop by hand. On the third revolution the prop locked. I removed the
number four lower plug and oil came out. I changed my oil on the annual and
followed the precise instructions in the maintenance manual on page 27
(12-00-00). I vented the lubrication by precisely following the
instructions on page 28 (12-00-00). On page 26 (12-00-00) it discusses
checking the oil and it states in part, "Before checking the oil make sure
that there is no oil in the crankcase. Prior to oil level check turn the
propeller several times by hand to transfer all the oil from the engine to
the oil tank."
>
> If turning the prop is suppose to remove oil from the crankcase how can
oil be coming from the spark plug hole. I am confused. Does anyone have any
idea what is going on? I have 240 hours TT on the engine. Could I have an
oil hose routed wrong? Did I wait too long between flights to start the
engine? How many revolutions does it take to suck the oil out? Have I
damaged the engine? Thanks, Jeff Classic IV 912UL
>
>
> Jeffrey Puls
> pulsair@mindspring.com
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The |
Lists"...?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Say Matt, where does that wing fit on the server? Is that a left or right
wing server? :) Impressive, never doubted you. Thanks for the tour though.
Rick
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
If a plastic one cant be found you can always do a cardboard mock up for
behind the seat and have one welded up out of aluminum.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dill Family
Subject: Kitfox-List: Header tank
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dill Family" <Dillfamily@sbcglobal.net>
I have a model 2 (sn 672), purchased on EBAY by my father before he passed
away. Total time is 220 hours. Most of its flying was between 1998 and 2002.
The previous owner (s) took no real effort to comply with service bulletins,
which leaves me with metal tanks and a header tank behind the firewall.
Embedded in service bulletin 29 is the requirement to move the header tank
to behind the seat. Here is my question for the moment, does anybody know
where I can get such a tank given current vendor status?
Jeffrey R. Dill
I
______(_)______
O O
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jareds@verizon.net" <jareds@verizon.net>
Rex,
Great ideas! The fuel pump is especially unique and seems to fix a lot
of discussion in the past on the list.
I also use a site guage with external tube. Much better than the
fiberglass panel that is already orange from leaded fuel.
I do concur with Don that the fuel flow down to zero can be a problem.
I can' only get about 11-12 of my 13 gallons out of the tanks for some
reason so i have considered a pump prior to the header to help that
process too.
Not exactly scientific for calculating fuel on a long trip. Makes a guy
nervous!
Jared
Rex & Jan Shaw wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
>Hi everyone, Because of the problems with fuel flow
>from the wing tanks to the header tank under some
>conditions, I was thinking an electric aux fuel pump
>might help. Any thoughts on this would be a help as I
>will soon be ready to cover and would like to make any
>changes before then, Thanks Don.
>
>PS. I have 2 fiberglass 13 gal wing tanks in the kit I
>am building (Manufactured Mid 1992) and I don't have a
>lot of faith in them, anything I can or should do ???
>Thanks again.
>
>Hi ! Don,
> I have a MKIV/582 and am in the process of modifying the fuel
>system somewhat. I'll just outline what I'm doing in case you find any
>usefull ideas or info. First my standard system is a 3 litre header tank
>behind the seat.and two 49 litre fibreglass wing tanks with a breather from
>the header to inside top of the right hand tank. Now basically this works
>fine right down to zero fuel IF it's done this way.
> The only problem with the fibreglass tanks I have is seeing fuel level
>through the glass ends. My plane was built by a mechanical engineer and
>originally had aluminium tanks that split in flight. He wrecked the plane
>landing it in a hurry in tiger country due to fuel flowing over him and his
>passenger. The story goes that he threatened to sue Skystar and they gave
>him a new airframe. So I'm very much in favour of the glass tanks over the
>aluminium ones. From this list it is obvious though that you can get
>pinholes in the glass and some fuels might be a problem. However I think
>these problems are addressable. Refer to this list.
> Seeing the fuel level through the ends in my opinion needs some thought.
>Perhaps either an external sight tube but if I was going that way I'd want
>to do it before installation. Some guys with glass tanks are putting 35 or
>50mm reflector lamps up against the tank. This shines through and lights the
>tank very brightly from inside and you can clearly see the fuel level. The
>lamp needs to be operated by push button so it can't get left turned on and
>overheat the glass. I'm actually seeing what I can do like this with an
>ultrabright white LED.
> Also in relation to running out of fuel I'm installing an optoelectrical
>sensor at the top of the header tank to warn when I only have that much [ 3
>litres ] left. Not much but a big help maybe. As well as that sensor
>flashing a LED on the panel I'm considering a beep beep in the intercom.
> I also want to run an electric pump for backup and maybe help get an
>instant start if I needed to take care with a low battery. I have got a 3
>outlet pulse pump to replace the 2 outlet. I'll feed the Facet electric pump
>into the third outlet. sounds strange but actually I'm just using that
>outlet pump chamber as a "T" piece to the carbies. The facet pump with a
>srew on filter will mount under the seat and draw fuel from the header tank.
>Now the model pump I'm using is important. It's a 40171. This flows no fuel
>in either direction unless power is supplied. Therefore the fuel switch also
>acts as a valve. I'm not feeding it in series with the pulse pump as
>pressures are additive.
> Perhaps you can get some usefull hints from all this.
>
>Have fun,
>
>Rex from Australia.
>rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dill Family" <Dillfamily@sbcglobal.net>
Thanks, I wish I knew more about the evolution of the tank. Does not seem
that the location, shape or material would make that much difference.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Header tank
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
>
> If a plastic one cant be found you can always do a cardboard mock up for
> behind the seat and have one welded up out of aluminum.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dill Family
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Header tank
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dill Family"
<Dillfamily@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I have a model 2 (sn 672), purchased on EBAY by my father before he passed
> away. Total time is 220 hours. Most of its flying was between 1998 and
2002.
> The previous owner (s) took no real effort to comply with service
bulletins,
> which leaves me with metal tanks and a header tank behind the firewall.
> Embedded in service bulletin 29 is the requirement to move the header tank
> to behind the seat. Here is my question for the moment, does anybody know
> where I can get such a tank given current vendor status?
>
> Jeffrey R. Dill
> I
> ______(_)______
> O O
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: fabric covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
I put a thick coat of poly brush on the tanks and let dry. The poly brush on the
fabric permeated through and "reactivated" that on the tank and has held up
well for about 3 years and 430 hours. It was not my idea though. Whom ever
gave me the instructions made the point that it would be difficulty to brush on
that area of poly tak and have it smooth.
Maxwell
Gerald Jantzi <gvjantzi@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gerald Jantzi
Thank you for the input Rick.
Next question. Do I follow the Poly fiber manual for the Concave bottom wings?
I put a straight edge on the Rib Capstrip the concave is about 1/4 inch. My fuel
tanks are nearly flush with the ribs on each side. SS says use Poly Brush on
tanks. Should I use Poly tac instead? Has anybody got the poly-fiber video they
would like to sell ? I am missing instruction for wheel pant installation
is there some way to get that part of the manual thanks again Gerald Jantzi
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Model II Header Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
I have kit #345 and completed building it in 02. It has an aluminum header tank
and aluminum wing tanks. They have worked well for me with 0 problems. I think
the header tank came out as an after market option to the panel tank. The aluminum
wing takes were replaced with fiber glass due to some mounting problems.
It seems to be much nicer than the panel tanks or at least that's my take on
it.
If I can help contact me off list.
Do Not Archive
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Gerald,
I did something like Maxwell did for the tank for the ribs. I put two think
coats of polytack on all the ribs except the end ones and let them dry.
Then I glued the fabric on the wing only on the end ribs and the leading and
trailing edges. Then did just a wee bit of shrinking in the spaces between
the ribs to get rid of the big folds. Then took a brush with MEK and
brushed along the ribs which dissolved the polytack into the fabric.
I learned this at one of the covering classes. When doing the slightly
concave parts of the ribs, I just laid a tool between the ribs to hold the
fabric down when adding the MEK. - pliers, screwdriver, whatever. It works
real well. Much easier than what the book describes.
Randy - miss the building, but loving the flying.
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W Duke
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fabric covering
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
I put a thick coat of poly brush on the tanks and let dry. The poly brush
on the fabric permeated through and "reactivated" that on the tank and has
held up well for about 3 years and 430 hours. It was not my idea though.
Whom ever gave me the instructions made the point that it would be
difficulty to brush on that area of poly tak and have it smooth.
Maxwell
Gerald Jantzi <gvjantzi@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gerald Jantzi
Thank you for the input Rick.
Next question. Do I follow the Poly fiber manual for the Concave bottom
wings? I put a straight edge on the Rib Capstrip the concave is about 1/4
inch. My fuel tanks are nearly flush with the ribs on each side. SS says use
Poly Brush on tanks. Should I use Poly tac instead? Has anybody got the
poly-fiber video they would like to sell ? I am missing instruction for
wheel pant installation is there some way to get that part of the manual
thanks again Gerald Jantzi
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Lokking for a six gallon wing tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
I have the fabric off my Right wing on my model II.
I'd like to install a six gallon tank in that wing, then gravity feed that
fuel to my ten gallon fuselage tank mounted in front of the panel.
I am assuming that all I need is a vented fuel cap and a fuel shut valve
that I can open after burning six gallons out of my fuselage tank. Seems
simple enough.
Any suggestions?
Does anyone know where I can buy a tank that will fit my wing?
Dave S
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Lokking for a six gallon wing tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
try airdale they have the bigger tanks also . will fit right in i was told .
http://www.avidair.com/
Have fun fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Lokking for a six gallon wing tank
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
>
> I have the fabric off my Right wing on my model II.
>
> I'd like to install a six gallon tank in that wing, then gravity feed that
> fuel to my ten gallon fuselage tank mounted in front of the panel.
>
> I am assuming that all I need is a vented fuel cap and a fuel shut valve
> that I can open after burning six gallons out of my fuselage tank. Seems
> simple enough.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Does anyone know where I can buy a tank that will fit my wing?
>
> Dave S
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Lokking for a six gallon wing tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
I have a 6 and 13 gallon tanks....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Savener
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Lokking for a six gallon wing tank
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
I have the fabric off my Right wing on my model II.
I'd like to install a six gallon tank in that wing, then gravity feed that
fuel to my ten gallon fuselage tank mounted in front of the panel.
I am assuming that all I need is a vented fuel cap and a fuel shut valve
that I can open after burning six gallons out of my fuselage tank. Seems
simple enough.
Any suggestions?
Does anyone know where I can buy a tank that will fit my wing?
Dave S
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: tony fiacco <tony_fiacco@yahoo.com>
i have a plastic header tank brand new, from a series 7. email me off list if
interested.
thank
tony
Dill Family <Dillfamily@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dill Family"
Thanks, I wish I knew more about the evolution of the tank. Does not seem
that the location, shape or material would make that much difference.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick"
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Header tank
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick"
>
> If a plastic one cant be found you can always do a cardboard mock up for
> behind the seat and have one welded up out of aluminum.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dill Family
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Header tank
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dill Family"
>
> I have a model 2 (sn 672), purchased on EBAY by my father before he passed
> away. Total time is 220 hours. Most of its flying was between 1998 and
2002.
> The previous owner (s) took no real effort to comply with service
bulletins,
> which leaves me with metal tanks and a header tank behind the firewall.
> Embedded in service bulletin 29 is the requirement to move the header tank
> to behind the seat. Here is my question for the moment, does anybody know
> where I can get such a tank given current vendor status?
>
> Jeffrey R. Dill
> I
> ______(_)______
> O O
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Petergleason@aol.com
Looking for the original manufacture of the fiberglass wing tips for the
Series 5 wings. Anybody know? I need to replace both or mine. Also looking for
a
carbon fiber seat pan.Peter Gleason
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
I may be able to help with tips...
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Petergleason@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Tips
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Petergleason@aol.com
Looking for the original manufacture of the fiberglass wing tips for the
Series 5 wings. Anybody know? I need to replace both or mine. Also looking
for a
carbon fiber seat pan.Peter Gleason
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hey John,
Could you come up with some lighter tips? Those are
pretty heavy and maybe some different materials like
carbon fiber and S glass would do better. Save a few
lbs for those of us who care.
Maybe the same with wheel pants too? Cowls?
Just thinking.... All those little pounds add up.
Kurt S.
--- jdmcbean <jdmcbean@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> I may be able to help with tips...
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
You mean something like these..... http://www.sportplanellc.com/Wing.htm
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt schrader
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing Tips
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hey John,
Could you come up with some lighter tips? Those are
pretty heavy and maybe some different materials like
carbon fiber and S glass would do better. Save a few
lbs for those of us who care.
Maybe the same with wheel pants too? Cowls?
Just thinking.... All those little pounds add up.
Kurt S.
--- jdmcbean <jdmcbean@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> I may be able to help with tips...
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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