---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/04/05: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:16 AM - Kitfox biplane (Michel Verheughe) 2. 08:07 AM - Skystar info. (Gary Olson) 3. 08:42 AM - Re: Skystar info. (Don Pearsall) 4. 09:56 AM - Re: Fuel injected 912 and 914 (Jim Carriere) 5. 10:20 AM - Re: Heat resistant gasket (kurt schrader) 6. 11:07 AM - CO2 (Alan & Linda Daniels) 7. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Fuel injected 912 and 914 (Grant Fluent) 8. 11:59 AM - Re: Heat resistant gasket (Michel Verheughe) 9. 12:00 PM - Re: Skystar info. (Gary Olson) 10. 12:29 PM - Re: Heat resistant gasket (Alan & Linda Daniels) 11. 04:19 PM - Re: CO2 (Richard Chandler) 12. 05:31 PM - Re: Re: Fuel injected 912 and 914 (Randy Daughenbaugh) 13. 08:18 PM - CO2 (Clint Bazzill) 14. 08:29 PM - Re: Re: Skystar info. (Jay Carter) 15. 11:09 PM - Re: Re: Skystar info. (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:39 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox biplane --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Hello guys, Does anyone know what are the flaps / aileron settings of the Kitfox biplane Torgeir showed us? Are the upper wings ailerons and lower wings flaps? Just wondering. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:11 AM PST US From: Gary Olson Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar info. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gary Olson I am in need of some info from Skystar in order to apease the FAA. Does anyone know who is in charge of the records of Skystar and how I could get the info I need? Any leads would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Gary --------------------------------- Let fate take it's course directly to your email. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:27 AM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar info. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Gary, I doubt that you will get anything from Skystar. It is pretty much shut down and the employees scattered. Just tell us what you need and I be someone here can give you answers. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Olson Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar info. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gary Olson I am in need of some info from Skystar in order to apease the FAA. Does anyone know who is in charge of the records of Skystar and how I could get the info I need? Any leads would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Gary --------------------------------- Let fate take it's course directly to your email. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:10 AM PST US From: Jim Carriere Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel injected 912 and 914 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Carriere > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" > > http://www.rotaxking.com/default.html > > They offer a fuel injected 912 for $10,000. They offer a fuel > injection > kit for $2200. Interesting website, really lousy proofreading. Spelling and grammar errors can be overlooked for companies not based in English speaking locations, but the contact information is in California. They seem to have some great products but unprofessional presentation. I would do a LOT more checking around before putting money down. Jim in NW FL Series 7 in progress __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:59 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Heat resistant gasket --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Thanks Michel, It might be a good idea to look at CO2 sensors for your plane now. Don't know how tight your cockpit is from air leaks, but you might eventually get some exhaust fumes or CO2 in from your heater and get a bit sleepy. Worth checking on. The KitFox I got my tailwheel checkout in gave me headaches. We got a lot of hot gasses in it and that was in summer time. I think he needed to tighten up his firewall blanket/gasket. Kurt S. --- Michel Verheughe wrote: > Hello guys, > > I am installing a cabin heater on my Jabiru 2200 and > I wanted to have > the heat box as much airtight as possible, on the > exhaust muffler. So, > I was looking for a gasket that would withstand the > heat. > A few days ago, I passed in front of a fireplace and > oven store. I went > in and asked if they had some type of gasket (I was > thinking, for the > pipe system). They had something for the doors of > closed > fireplaces/ovens. But it was thick and round. I was > about to give up > when I saw something: flat wicks by the meter. Hum, > that could do the > trick. But how to fix it in place? Glue it! answered > the shopkeeper. > Glue? Impossible, it will be very hot. Well this > glue withstand 1,100 > degrees C (2,012 F) > I left the shop USD 10,- poorer but today I went > flying, trying the new > cabin heater and it works very well! > > Cheers, > Michel __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:16 AM PST US From: Alan & Linda Daniels Subject: Kitfox-List: CO2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels If you have your exhaust pipe too short you will get exhaust inside during high angle of attack flight, such as climb out. The ball joints or slip joints also leak some so the firewall needs to be sealed. CO2 sensors are a really good idea. The cabin area inside the Kitfox is a low pressure area when the vents are closed due to the suction from the leaks around the turtle deck and back and sides of the windshield because of the low pressure on top of the plane. kurt schrader wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > >Thanks Michel, > >It might be a good idea to look at CO2 sensors for >your plane now. Don't know how tight your cockpit is >from air leaks, but you might eventually get some >exhaust fumes or CO2 in from your heater and get a bit >sleepy. Worth checking on. > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:00 AM PST US From: Grant Fluent Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel injected 912 and 914 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent Is it odd that they only offer a 60 day warranty? In my opinion, if a company has faith in their products, the warranty should reflect that. Grant Fluent Newcastle, NE Classic IV 912S --- Jim Carriere wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Carriere > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy > Daughenbaugh" > > > > http://www.rotaxking.com/default.html > > > > They offer a fuel injected 912 for $10,000. They > offer a fuel > > injection > > kit for $2200. > > Interesting website, really lousy proofreading. > Spelling and > grammar errors can be overlooked for companies not > based in English > speaking locations, but the contact information is > in California. > > They seem to have some great products but > unprofessional > presentation. I would do a LOT more checking around > before putting > money down. > > Jim in NW FL > Series 7 in progress > > > > __________________________________ > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:02 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Heat resistant gasket --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Hello Kurt and Alan, On Dec 4, 2005, at 7:20 PM, kurt schrader wrote: > It might be a good idea to look at CO2 sensors for your plane now. Last spring, my wife and I were in the Norwegian Aero Club shop in Oslo. Probably the only place you can buy plane stuff in Norway and, as I was looking at Jeppesen charts for my trip to Belgium, my wife said to me: Don't you need one of those? It was a CO (carbon mono-oxyde, the stuff that kills you!) detector valid for 18 months. It is since on my instrument panel, regularly checked with the rest of the instruments. Alan, I'll post some photos when I get a chance to take them but, the idea behind using muffler heat to warm up the cabin, is this: You need to high pressure fresh air from a dedicated inlet, drive it through a warm element, such as a part of the exhaust system, then let it flow in the cabin. It should be totally isolated from the rest of the engine room, hence the "heat resistant gasket" I was looking for. The only failure that can happen then is a hole in the muffler that allows exhaust gas to escape. In that case, I have only the CO detector to save my skin. But with a brand new stainless steel exhaust muffler, I don't think it will be a problem in the near future. BTW, I read a bit about this on the internet and, from what I understand, CO2 is dangerous because it takes place for oxygen in your lungs and you end up lacking oxygen, a bit like flying too high with no oxygen mask. CO is much nastier because it goes into your bloodstream, transported by the haemoglobin, just like oxygen. The problem is: CO takes 300 times longer to get rid of. So, even if you get down on the ground alive, you'll need oxygen treatment that may include high pressure oxygen chamber. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:28 PM PST US From: Gary Olson Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Skystar info. Builder Hotline --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gary Olson Thanks to everyone that has replied. In short, I need a replacement signed FAA bill of sale from the company. Somehow, the original must have sprouted legs and run off to hide. While I am still looking, I should try to procure a replacement if possible should I not be able find it. Lowell has generously offered his assistance. I will acept any and all advice and/or comments anyone has. I appreciate this avenue of builder support and all of the good guys that use it. Thanks, Gary wrote: What records do you need ? lots of info here http://kitfox.lazair.com/skystar and I would post the same question at the forum http://kitfox.lazair.com/ --------------------------------- Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:50 PM PST US From: Alan & Linda Daniels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Heat resistant gasket --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels My point is that there are several ways CO2 can get from your engine to the cabin. Air cooled engines have no choice but to use exhaust heat, which works well. On a liquid cooled engine you have hot coolant to heat the cabin also. I have known of a couple of cases were CO2 entered the cabin due to having the exhaust pipe too short and from exhaust leaks within the system. I have had CO2 poisoning two times flying, one time so bad I could not find the runway even on short final. It was due to a faulty weld in the exhaust system. It overtook me before I knew what was happening. I was in the right seat and got much more CO2 than the pilot in the left seat due to the way the contaminated air was coming in and going out. If there had not been a good calm pilot in the left seat, even though he could not land a tail wheel plane, I would have ended up in a smoking hole. My fingernails were almost black by the time we got on the ground and I really did not know what planet I was on. . It took several days to get over the effects. Once you get poisoned you seem to be affected much quicker the next time. Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >Hello Kurt and Alan, > >On Dec 4, 2005, at 7:20 PM, kurt schrader wrote: > > > >Alan, I'll post some photos when I get a chance to take them but, the >idea behind using muffler heat to warm up the cabin, is this: You need >to high pressure fresh air from a dedicated inlet, drive it through a >warm element, such as a part of the exhaust system, then let it flow in >the cabin. It should be totally isolated from the rest of the engine >room, hence the "heat resistant gasket" I was looking for. >The only failure that can happen then is a hole in the muffler that >allows exhaust gas to escape. In that case, I have only the CO detector >to save my skin. But with a brand new stainless steel exhaust muffler, >I don't think it will be a problem in the near future. > >BTW, I read a bit about this on the internet and, from what I >understand, CO2 is dangerous because it takes place for oxygen in your >lungs and you end up lacking oxygen, a bit like flying too high with no >oxygen mask. CO is much nastier because it goes into your bloodstream, >transported by the haemoglobin, just like oxygen. The problem is: CO >takes 300 times longer to get rid of. So, even if you get down on the >ground alive, you'll need oxygen treatment that may include high >pressure oxygen chamber. > >Cheers, >Michel > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:17 PM PST US From: "Richard Chandler" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: CO2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Chandler" Contact me off list I may have just what you need. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan & Linda Daniels Subject: Kitfox-List: CO2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels --> If you have your exhaust pipe too short you will get exhaust inside during high angle of attack flight, such as climb out. The ball joints or slip joints also leak some so the firewall needs to be sealed. CO2 sensors are a really good idea. The cabin area inside the Kitfox is a low pressure area when the vents are closed due to the suction from the leaks around the turtle deck and back and sides of the windshield because of the low pressure on top of the plane. kurt schrader wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader >--> > >Thanks Michel, > >It might be a good idea to look at CO2 sensors for >your plane now. Don't know how tight your cockpit is >from air leaks, but you might eventually get some >exhaust fumes or CO2 in from your heater and get a bit >sleepy. Worth checking on. > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:08 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel injected 912 and 914 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Jim, Yeah, I first thought it must in another country because of the errors and weird sentence structure. I guess you sometimes see this sort of thing with eccentric one person startups. Randy Do not archive . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Carriere Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel injected 912 and 914 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Carriere > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" > > http://www.rotaxking.com/default.html > > They offer a fuel injected 912 for $10,000. They offer a fuel > injection > kit for $2200. Interesting website, really lousy proofreading. Spelling and grammar errors can be overlooked for companies not based in English speaking locations, but the contact information is in California. They seem to have some great products but unprofessional presentation. I would do a LOT more checking around before putting money down. Jim in NW FL Series 7 in progress __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:46 PM PST US From: "Clint Bazzill" Subject: Kitfox-List: CO2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" It's not CO2 that leaks out of an engine, its CO (carbon monoxide) Carbon dioxide is what you breath out. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:38 PM PST US From: "Jay Carter" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skystar info. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Carter" Gary, Call EAA. Can't find it now but I had info on what to do for a bill of sale from out of business kit manufactures. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Olson" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Skystar info. > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gary Olson > > Thanks to everyone that has replied. In short, I need a replacement signed FAA bill of sale from the company. Somehow, the original must have sprouted legs and run off to hide. While I am still looking, I should try to procure a replacement if possible should I not be able find it. Lowell has generously offered his assistance. I will acept any and all advice and/or comments anyone has. I appreciate this avenue of builder support and all of the good guys that use it. Thanks, > > Gary > > wrote: > What records do you need ? > > lots of info here http://kitfox.lazair.com/skystar > > and I would post the same question at the forum http://kitfox.lazair.com/ > > > --------------------------------- > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:45 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skystar info. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 12:00 PM 12/4/2005, you wrote: >I will acept any and all advice and/or comments anyone has. I appreciate >this avenue of builder support and all of the good guys that use it. Thanks, Gary, AC 20-27F 8.b.2 states that instead of submitting AC Form 8050-2, Aircraft Bill of Sale, you can explain why such a submission is impossible. I'm guessing stating Skystar is in bankruptcy qualifies. If you have any other purchase documentation you might include that as well for substantiation. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.