Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:39 AM - Fuel tanks photos (Graeme Toft)
2. 05:16 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Meters (Bradley M Webb)
3. 07:35 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Meters forward to Dan G (Aerobatics@aol.com)
4. 08:26 AM - Re: Door latch sources (Michael Gibbs)
5. 09:15 AM - mag end electric starter for Rotax 582 (Clem Nichols)
6. 09:46 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Meters (Bob Robertson)
7. 11:35 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Meters (Bradley M Webb)
8. 11:42 AM - Aircraft lighting alternatives (Bradley M Webb)
9. 03:43 PM - 912S Gremlin, Advice needed and a lesson learned. (Randy Daughenbaugh)
10. 03:53 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Meters (Andy Fultz)
11. 04:24 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Meters (Bob Robertson)
12. 04:26 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Meters (Bob Robertson)
13. 04:30 PM - Re: 912S Gremlin, Advice needed and a lesson learned. (Alan & Linda Daniels)
14. 04:48 PM - Re: 912S Gremlin, Advice needed and a lesson learned. (Clifford Begnaud)
15. 04:58 PM - Advice needed (Sid Hausding)
16. 08:04 PM - Elevator Trim systems (Cudnohufsky's)
17. 08:37 PM - Re: 912S Gremlin, Advice needed and a lesson learned. (jdmcbean)
18. 09:42 PM - Re: Elevator Trim systems (Alan & Linda Daniels)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fuel tanks photos |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
For those interested I have uploaded photos of the fuel tank defects at Sportsflight
in the defects section.
Cheers
Graeme Toft
Queensland Safety Solutions
Ph: 07 49397011
Mob: 0411476527
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow Meters |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
The most major mod I know of is the addition of the word "aviation" to the
product description. I think you'll find that this "value-added" feature is
directly proportional to the price increase of anything destined to leave
terra-firma.
Don't you know that when shopping for airplane parts, the word "airplane" is
strictly "verboten" in the conversation?
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
Graeme,
Did the distributor say exactly what modifications had been made? To
justify the price difference there must have been some really serious mods
done.
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graeme Toft
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Andy, I had a navman fuel flow system in my KF model 1 and it worked fine.
The fuel mizer is a navman with additions to prevent leakage etc. They are
infact a converted navman. Thats the info I recieved when I made similar
enquiries to your own, in fact I rang the Australia distributer to confirm
this info.
Cheers
Graeme Toft
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
>
>
> Is anybody in the group using or do you know anybody that uses the NAVMAN
> F2100 Fuel Flow Meter? I'm trying to decide whether or not to put one in
> my
> panel. It looks to be nearly identical to the MIZER sold by Spruce, but
> less than half the price fo the MIZER. Any and all comments appreciated.
>
> Andy F.
> AVID Speedwing
> STRATUS EA-81
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Meters forward to Dan G |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Door latch sources |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Bradley sez:
>I removed and tossed the door latches that were there. Stupid, cuz
>my locating a suitable sub is harder than I thought.
Murle Williams sells door latches that are easier to install and more
secure than the factory originals. Check them out at:
<http://MurleWilliamsAviation.com>
Or contact Murle at:
Murle.Williams@gmail.com
(602) 978-0553
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 5
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| Subject: | mag end electric starter for Rotax 582 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Does anyone in the group have a working mag end starter for a Rotax 582 for sale?
If so, please contact me off list.
Thanks
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Meters |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Hi Graeme,Shorty and all....
Hope y'all had a great holiday break..... Now....Fuel Flow meters i.e.
NAVMAN et al.
I have had both units so I can answer some of your questions.
The difference between the Navman (marine) and the Mizer (aviation) is how
the transducer is packaged.
The marine unit has no protection around the transducer. The weak point in
the transducer is the plastic barbed fittings
onto which you mount your fuel hoses. In a marine application, I believe
the transducers are simply mounted to a couple of brackets and secured to
any bulkhead.
On the MIZER unit (aviation) the transducer is mounted inside a metal
"bottle" (removeable top). There is a vibration absorbing foam layer around
the transducer. If my memory serves me correctly, there is also a vent
line to pipe any leakage
outside the engine compartment should the transducer spring a leak.
There has already been one aviation accident (very unhappy ending) where the
transducer is suspect in an inflight fire. I have looked carefully at both
transducers and cannot see any difference. It seems the big difference is
in HOW the unit in mounted.
My current project uses a NAVMAN transducer mounted on antivibration mounts
and enclosed inside a containter with a drain to the exterior of the plane.
We will be producing our own LCD screens for read outs so the only part from
NAVMAN we will be using is the transducer). Our screens will have "total
fuel on board/fuel used/time on this leg/total time on tank/consumption rate
and hours and minuted till dry tank". All parameters are user settable and
the unit has a low fuel alarm built in. We have a few beta units in
use...one on our test stand with over a years use and no problems. No idea
at present as to how much this will cost, but hope to have an info packet
vailable in a couple of months.
If you do have any fuel monitoring equipment on board, it is advisable to
place the transducer inside a cannister into which any leakage can be vented
overboard.
Just my two cents worth......
regards
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
>
> Graeme,
>
> Did the distributor say exactly what modifications had been made? To
> justify the price difference there must have been some really serious mods
> done.
>
> Andy F.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graeme Toft
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
> Andy, I had a navman fuel flow system in my KF model 1 and it worked fine.
> The fuel mizer is a navman with additions to prevent leakage etc. They are
> infact a converted navman. Thats the info I recieved when I made similar
> enquiries to your own, in fact I rang the Australia distributer to confirm
> this info.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme Toft
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > Is anybody in the group using or do you know anybody that uses the
NAVMAN
> > F2100 Fuel Flow Meter? I'm trying to decide whether or not to put one
in
> > my
> > panel. It looks to be nearly identical to the MIZER sold by Spruce, but
> > less than half the price fo the MIZER. Any and all comments
appreciated.
> >
> > Andy F.
> > AVID Speedwing
> > STRATUS EA-81
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow Meters |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Could the breakage/leak/fire issue be solved by placing the unit in front of
the firewall? You could, for example, "shock" mount it, and build a
stainless box around it with the bottom open. I'm imagining a position on
the firewall, in one of the lower corners, maybe near a gascolator, or at
least where a gascolator would be. Make it easier to inspect on pre-flight.
.02 FWIW,
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Robertson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
<aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Hi Graeme,Shorty and all....
Hope y'all had a great holiday break..... Now....Fuel Flow meters i.e.
NAVMAN et al.
I have had both units so I can answer some of your questions.
The difference between the Navman (marine) and the Mizer (aviation) is how
the transducer is packaged.
The marine unit has no protection around the transducer. The weak point in
the transducer is the plastic barbed fittings
onto which you mount your fuel hoses. In a marine application, I believe
the transducers are simply mounted to a couple of brackets and secured to
any bulkhead.
On the MIZER unit (aviation) the transducer is mounted inside a metal
"bottle" (removeable top). There is a vibration absorbing foam layer around
the transducer. If my memory serves me correctly, there is also a vent
line to pipe any leakage
outside the engine compartment should the transducer spring a leak.
There has already been one aviation accident (very unhappy ending) where the
transducer is suspect in an inflight fire. I have looked carefully at both
transducers and cannot see any difference. It seems the big difference is
in HOW the unit in mounted.
My current project uses a NAVMAN transducer mounted on antivibration mounts
and enclosed inside a containter with a drain to the exterior of the plane.
We will be producing our own LCD screens for read outs so the only part from
NAVMAN we will be using is the transducer). Our screens will have "total
fuel on board/fuel used/time on this leg/total time on tank/consumption rate
and hours and minuted till dry tank". All parameters are user settable and
the unit has a low fuel alarm built in. We have a few beta units in
use...one on our test stand with over a years use and no problems. No idea
at present as to how much this will cost, but hope to have an info packet
vailable in a couple of months.
If you do have any fuel monitoring equipment on board, it is advisable to
place the transducer inside a cannister into which any leakage can be vented
overboard.
Just my two cents worth......
regards
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
>
> Graeme,
>
> Did the distributor say exactly what modifications had been made? To
> justify the price difference there must have been some really serious mods
> done.
>
> Andy F.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graeme Toft
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
> Andy, I had a navman fuel flow system in my KF model 1 and it worked fine.
> The fuel mizer is a navman with additions to prevent leakage etc. They are
> infact a converted navman. Thats the info I recieved when I made similar
> enquiries to your own, in fact I rang the Australia distributer to confirm
> this info.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme Toft
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > Is anybody in the group using or do you know anybody that uses the
NAVMAN
> > F2100 Fuel Flow Meter? I'm trying to decide whether or not to put one
in
> > my
> > panel. It looks to be nearly identical to the MIZER sold by Spruce, but
> > less than half the price fo the MIZER. Any and all comments
appreciated.
> >
> > Andy F.
> > AVID Speedwing
> > STRATUS EA-81
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Aircraft lighting alternatives |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Surfing around eBay (imagine that!), and found these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7734553016&rd=1&sspagena
me=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1>
&item=7734553016&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
Has anyone thought about using these? Seems a good buy for our a/c, and
certainly cheaper than av-specific products.
Also, How about these for wingtip position lights
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=458123
9825&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT>
&rd=1,1&item=4581239825&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
Now.yes I know of the FAA position lite requirement, and the field of view,
but these would be close enough, I think.
Call me cheap, but I have a real problem dropping huge amounts of cash on
the stuff I've seen that are FAA approved. You'd think they're made of gold.
I ain't flying a 767, after all.
Bradley
KF2 N1836
Middle GA
Message 9
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| Subject: | 912S Gremlin, Advice needed and a lesson learned. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Returning home after a ride, we had just touched down and I noticed some
splashes on the windshield. (This is not good!) Since the temperatures
were all still good, I taxied on over to the hangar and my friend helped me
pull the cowl off.
By this time, we had identified the splashes as anti-freeze. I was
expecting to see some hose connection leaking, but all fittings were fine,
but the cowl above the overflow container was wet with Dexron. All the
fittings were dry. As we watched, the engine cooled and started sucking the
coolant back into the engine. I added between 32 and 39 oz. of 50/50 before
it all quit sucking back into the engine. This took several hours. This
still left the level in the overflow container near the minimum level.
My friend says that I just had too much fluid in the overflow container and
it flowed out as the engine warmed up. I don't buy this because; 1) I
haven't added anti-freeze over the whole 87.2 hours of flying prior to this
happening. 2) If this was just normal expansion, I would not have had to
add any additional coolant as the engine cooled. 3) I don't think it would
have put coolant all over the top cowl above the overflow container -
Although the air flow in the cowl may splash it around a good bit.
Anyway, I feel that somewhere (one head?) something was hot enough to boil
the coolant and that is what blew stuff out the top of the overflow. My
guess is that the flow to one head wasn't up to snuff and that caused the
problem. I have taken the hoses off the bottom of all the heads and blown
air down backwards through the head and can't detect any restriction in any
of the heads. I would feel much better if I could find a reason for this
blooping of coolant.
I should mention that I have a Grand Rapids EIS that tracks the head temps
on two heads - neither those nor the oil temp was too high. About 2.8 hours
of flying time before this flight, I had covered about 1/3rd of the radiator
surface to try to raise temps during winter flying. After doing this, I
climbed to 10,000 ft to watch temps and they were fine as they were for more
than 2 hours before this last flight. I don't think that covering part of
the radiator was a major cause, but of course it could have aggravated the
situation.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Lesson Learned
I was really worried for some time because as the engine was cooling and I
was adding 50/50 coolant, I decided to check the oil level. I was surprised
to see it near the top of the tank and decided that I had found where all
the coolant that I was adding was going. But later found NO coolant in the
oil and the oil level was Normal! (My panic was unjustified!)
Lesson? Check your levels when the engine is hot, so you will know what to
expect. I wish that I knew what the level in the over flow container should
be when the engine is hot.
Thanks for listening and tell me what I may be missing.
Randy - Series 5/7 - 912S
.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow Meters |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
Thanks, Bob. That's the kind of info we need to get and it all makes sense.
Will your display be a standard 2" hole mount or something different?
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Robertson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
<aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Hi Graeme,Shorty and all....
Hope y'all had a great holiday break..... Now....Fuel Flow meters i.e.
NAVMAN et al.
I have had both units so I can answer some of your questions.
The difference between the Navman (marine) and the Mizer (aviation) is how
the transducer is packaged.
The marine unit has no protection around the transducer. The weak point in
the transducer is the plastic barbed fittings
onto which you mount your fuel hoses. In a marine application, I believe
the transducers are simply mounted to a couple of brackets and secured to
any bulkhead.
On the MIZER unit (aviation) the transducer is mounted inside a metal
"bottle" (removeable top). There is a vibration absorbing foam layer around
the transducer. If my memory serves me correctly, there is also a vent
line to pipe any leakage
outside the engine compartment should the transducer spring a leak.
There has already been one aviation accident (very unhappy ending) where the
transducer is suspect in an inflight fire. I have looked carefully at both
transducers and cannot see any difference. It seems the big difference is
in HOW the unit in mounted.
My current project uses a NAVMAN transducer mounted on antivibration mounts
and enclosed inside a containter with a drain to the exterior of the plane.
We will be producing our own LCD screens for read outs so the only part from
NAVMAN we will be using is the transducer). Our screens will have "total
fuel on board/fuel used/time on this leg/total time on tank/consumption rate
and hours and minuted till dry tank". All parameters are user settable and
the unit has a low fuel alarm built in. We have a few beta units in
use...one on our test stand with over a years use and no problems. No idea
at present as to how much this will cost, but hope to have an info packet
vailable in a couple of months.
If you do have any fuel monitoring equipment on board, it is advisable to
place the transducer inside a cannister into which any leakage can be vented
overboard.
Just my two cents worth......
regards
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
>
> Graeme,
>
> Did the distributor say exactly what modifications had been made? To
> justify the price difference there must have been some really serious mods
> done.
>
> Andy F.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graeme Toft
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
> Andy, I had a navman fuel flow system in my KF model 1 and it worked fine.
> The fuel mizer is a navman with additions to prevent leakage etc. They are
> infact a converted navman. Thats the info I recieved when I made similar
> enquiries to your own, in fact I rang the Australia distributer to confirm
> this info.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme Toft
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > Is anybody in the group using or do you know anybody that uses the
NAVMAN
> > F2100 Fuel Flow Meter? I'm trying to decide whether or not to put one
in
> > my
> > panel. It looks to be nearly identical to the MIZER sold by Spruce, but
> > less than half the price fo the MIZER. Any and all comments
appreciated.
> >
> > Andy F.
> > AVID Speedwing
> > STRATUS EA-81
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Meters |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Bradley,
We will be mounting it on the firewall with some good shock mounts... The
cannister we will be mounting it in has to be high enough off the bottom of
the firewall to allow the fuel hose to flow out the bottom of the cannister
and make a 90 degree turn. We have resigned ourselves to copy, pretty
much, what Mizer is doing with their aviation units. We will be running a
vent line overboard thats for sure.!
regards
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
>
> Could the breakage/leak/fire issue be solved by placing the unit in front
of
> the firewall? You could, for example, "shock" mount it, and build a
> stainless box around it with the bottom open. I'm imagining a position on
> the firewall, in one of the lower corners, maybe near a gascolator, or at
> least where a gascolator would be. Make it easier to inspect on
pre-flight.
>
> .02 FWIW,
> Bradley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Robertson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> Hi Graeme,Shorty and all....
>
> Hope y'all had a great holiday break..... Now....Fuel Flow meters i.e.
> NAVMAN et al.
> I have had both units so I can answer some of your questions.
> The difference between the Navman (marine) and the Mizer (aviation) is how
> the transducer is packaged.
> The marine unit has no protection around the transducer. The weak point
in
> the transducer is the plastic barbed fittings
> onto which you mount your fuel hoses. In a marine application, I believe
> the transducers are simply mounted to a couple of brackets and secured to
> any bulkhead.
> On the MIZER unit (aviation) the transducer is mounted inside a metal
> "bottle" (removeable top). There is a vibration absorbing foam layer
around
> the transducer. If my memory serves me correctly, there is also a vent
> line to pipe any leakage
> outside the engine compartment should the transducer spring a leak.
>
> There has already been one aviation accident (very unhappy ending) where
the
> transducer is suspect in an inflight fire. I have looked carefully at
both
> transducers and cannot see any difference. It seems the big difference is
> in HOW the unit in mounted.
>
> My current project uses a NAVMAN transducer mounted on antivibration
mounts
> and enclosed inside a containter with a drain to the exterior of the
plane.
> We will be producing our own LCD screens for read outs so the only part
from
> NAVMAN we will be using is the transducer). Our screens will have "total
> fuel on board/fuel used/time on this leg/total time on tank/consumption
rate
> and hours and minuted till dry tank". All parameters are user settable
and
> the unit has a low fuel alarm built in. We have a few beta units in
> use...one on our test stand with over a years use and no problems. No
idea
> at present as to how much this will cost, but hope to have an info packet
> vailable in a couple of months.
>
> If you do have any fuel monitoring equipment on board, it is advisable to
> place the transducer inside a cannister into which any leakage can be
vented
> overboard.
>
> Just my two cents worth......
>
> regards
>
> Bob Robertson
> Light Engine Services Ltd.
> Rotax Service Center
> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
> www.aerocontrols.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> >
> > Graeme,
> >
> > Did the distributor say exactly what modifications had been made? To
> > justify the price difference there must have been some really serious
mods
> > done.
> >
> > Andy F.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graeme Toft
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
> >
> > Andy, I had a navman fuel flow system in my KF model 1 and it worked
fine.
> > The fuel mizer is a navman with additions to prevent leakage etc. They
are
> > infact a converted navman. Thats the info I recieved when I made similar
> > enquiries to your own, in fact I rang the Australia distributer to
confirm
> > this info.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Graeme Toft
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is anybody in the group using or do you know anybody that uses the
> NAVMAN
> > > F2100 Fuel Flow Meter? I'm trying to decide whether or not to put one
> in
> > > my
> > > panel. It looks to be nearly identical to the MIZER sold by Spruce,
but
> > > less than half the price fo the MIZER. Any and all comments
> appreciated.
> > >
> > > Andy F.
> > > AVID Speedwing
> > > STRATUS EA-81
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Meters |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Andy.... our display will be 3.5" wide by 1.5in high...Will have two lines
of type.
regards
Bob R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
>
> Thanks, Bob. That's the kind of info we need to get and it all makes
sense.
> Will your display be a standard 2" hole mount or something different?
>
> Andy F.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob
> Robertson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> Hi Graeme,Shorty and all....
>
> Hope y'all had a great holiday break..... Now....Fuel Flow meters i.e.
> NAVMAN et al.
> I have had both units so I can answer some of your questions.
> The difference between the Navman (marine) and the Mizer (aviation) is how
> the transducer is packaged.
> The marine unit has no protection around the transducer. The weak point
in
> the transducer is the plastic barbed fittings
> onto which you mount your fuel hoses. In a marine application, I believe
> the transducers are simply mounted to a couple of brackets and secured to
> any bulkhead.
> On the MIZER unit (aviation) the transducer is mounted inside a metal
> "bottle" (removeable top). There is a vibration absorbing foam layer
around
> the transducer. If my memory serves me correctly, there is also a vent
> line to pipe any leakage
> outside the engine compartment should the transducer spring a leak.
>
> There has already been one aviation accident (very unhappy ending) where
the
> transducer is suspect in an inflight fire. I have looked carefully at
both
> transducers and cannot see any difference. It seems the big difference is
> in HOW the unit in mounted.
>
> My current project uses a NAVMAN transducer mounted on antivibration
mounts
> and enclosed inside a containter with a drain to the exterior of the
plane.
> We will be producing our own LCD screens for read outs so the only part
from
> NAVMAN we will be using is the transducer). Our screens will have "total
> fuel on board/fuel used/time on this leg/total time on tank/consumption
rate
> and hours and minuted till dry tank". All parameters are user settable
and
> the unit has a low fuel alarm built in. We have a few beta units in
> use...one on our test stand with over a years use and no problems. No
idea
> at present as to how much this will cost, but hope to have an info packet
> vailable in a couple of months.
>
> If you do have any fuel monitoring equipment on board, it is advisable to
> place the transducer inside a cannister into which any leakage can be
vented
> overboard.
>
> Just my two cents worth......
>
> regards
>
> Bob Robertson
> Light Engine Services Ltd.
> Rotax Service Center
> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
> www.aerocontrols.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> >
> > Graeme,
> >
> > Did the distributor say exactly what modifications had been made? To
> > justify the price difference there must have been some really serious
mods
> > done.
> >
> > Andy F.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graeme Toft
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
> >
> > Andy, I had a navman fuel flow system in my KF model 1 and it worked
fine.
> > The fuel mizer is a navman with additions to prevent leakage etc. They
are
> > infact a converted navman. Thats the info I recieved when I made similar
> > enquiries to your own, in fact I rang the Australia distributer to
confirm
> > this info.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Graeme Toft
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Meters
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is anybody in the group using or do you know anybody that uses the
> NAVMAN
> > > F2100 Fuel Flow Meter? I'm trying to decide whether or not to put one
> in
> > > my
> > > panel. It looks to be nearly identical to the MIZER sold by Spruce,
but
> > > less than half the price fo the MIZER. Any and all comments
> appreciated.
> > >
> > > Andy F.
> > > AVID Speedwing
> > > STRATUS EA-81
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912S Gremlin, Advice needed and a lesson learned. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Two things to check. #1 Did you increase the size of the overflow tank
cap vent hole. I don't understand why this causes a problem but was
warned that it might. #2 Check to see if the return hose going to the
water pump shows signs of collapse. We had one that would suck shut when
it got hot and cause coolant to blow out the overflow tank. This
probably is not the problem because it would show up as high
head/coolant temp but check it anyway. On a 7 Firewall Forward if you
use the provided hose I think is in real risk of collapse due to the
bend around the engine mount. I use a molded hose from NAPA that has
solved the problem.
Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
>
>Returning home after a ride, we had just touched down and I noticed some
>splashes on the windshield. (This is not good!) Since the temperatures
>were all still good, I taxied on over to the hangar and my friend helped me
>pull the cowl off.
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912S Gremlin, Advice needed and a lesson learned. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Randy,
Do you have cabin heat that uses hot water?
If so, do you have a control valve to turn flow on and off to the heater
core?
It's possible with this type heater to have an air bubble in the system that
has been sitting there waiting for the most inoportune time to work it's way
into the engine. If this happens it would rapidly expand and blow a bunch of
coolant out into the bottle....
You can guess how I know about this...
Best Regards,
Cliff
>
>
> Returning home after a ride, we had just touched down and I noticed some
> splashes on the windshield. (This is not good!) Since the temperatures
> were all still good, I taxied on over to the hangar and my friend helped
> me
> pull the cowl off.
>
> By this time, we had identified the splashes as anti-freeze. I was
> expecting to see some hose connection leaking, but all fittings were fine,
> but the cowl above the overflow container was wet with Dexron. All the
> fittings were dry. As we watched, the engine cooled and started sucking
> the
> coolant back into the engine. I added between 32 and 39 oz. of 50/50
> before
> it all quit sucking back into the engine. This took several hours. This
> still left the level in the overflow container near the minimum level.
>
> My friend says that I just had too much fluid in the overflow container
> and
> it flowed out as the engine warmed up. I don't buy this because; 1) I
> haven't added anti-freeze over the whole 87.2 hours of flying prior to
> this
> happening. 2) If this was just normal expansion, I would not have had to
> add any additional coolant as the engine cooled. 3) I don't think it
> would
> have put coolant all over the top cowl above the overflow container -
> Although the air flow in the cowl may splash it around a good bit.
>
> Anyway, I feel that somewhere (one head?) something was hot enough to boil
> the coolant and that is what blew stuff out the top of the overflow. My
> guess is that the flow to one head wasn't up to snuff and that caused the
> problem. I have taken the hoses off the bottom of all the heads and
> blown
> air down backwards through the head and can't detect any restriction in
> any
> of the heads. I would feel much better if I could find a reason for this
> blooping of coolant.
>
> I should mention that I have a Grand Rapids EIS that tracks the head temps
> on two heads - neither those nor the oil temp was too high. About 2.8
> hours
> of flying time before this flight, I had covered about 1/3rd of the
> radiator
> surface to try to raise temps during winter flying. After doing this, I
> climbed to 10,000 ft to watch temps and they were fine as they were for
> more
> than 2 hours before this last flight. I don't think that covering part of
> the radiator was a major cause, but of course it could have aggravated the
> situation.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Lesson Learned
> I was really worried for some time because as the engine was cooling and I
> was adding 50/50 coolant, I decided to check the oil level. I was
> surprised
> to see it near the top of the tank and decided that I had found where all
> the coolant that I was adding was going. But later found NO coolant in
> the
> oil and the oil level was Normal! (My panic was unjustified!)
>
> Lesson? Check your levels when the engine is hot, so you will know what
> to
> expect. I wish that I knew what the level in the over flow container
> should
> be when the engine is hot.
>
> Thanks for listening and tell me what I may be missing.
>
> Randy - Series 5/7 - 912S
>
> .
>
>
>
Message 15
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
Randy,
I'm having some problems with my truck system now and have discovered this site
and the listed links as invaluable in understanding more............even read
something about forcing fluid to the overflow when hot and sucking it back
into the system as it cools.........in a form of abnormal operation.
www.troubleshooters.com/toverheat.htm
Sid
good luck in diagnosing your problems.........working on mine.
----------------------------------
Randy Daughenbaugh <rjdaugh@> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
Returning home after a ride, we had just touched down and I noticed some
splashes on the windshield. (This is not good!) Since the temperatures
were all still good, I taxied on over to the hangar and my friend helped me
pull the cowl off.
By this time, we had identified the splashes as anti-freeze. I was
expecting to see some hose connection leaking, but all fittings were fine,
but the cowl above the overflow container was wet with Dexron. All the
fittings were dry. As we watched, the engine cooled and started sucking the
coolant back into the engine. I added between 32 and 39 oz. of 50/50 before
it all quit sucking back into the engine. This took several hours. This
still left the level in the overflow container near the minimum level.
My friend says that I just had too much fluid in the overflow container and
it flowed out as the engine warmed up. I don't buy this because; 1) I
haven't added anti-freeze over the whole 87.2 hours of flying prior to this
happening. 2) If this was just normal expansion, I would not have had to
add any additional coolant as the engine cooled. 3) I don't think it would
have put coolant all over the top cowl above the overflow container -
Although the air flow in the cowl may splash it around a good bit.
Anyway, I feel that somewhere (one head?) something was hot enough to boil
the coolant and that is what blew stuff out the top of the overflow. My
guess is that the flow to one head wasn't up to snuff and that caused the
problem. I have taken the hoses off the bottom of all the heads and blown
air down backwards through the head and can't detect any restriction in any
of the heads. I would feel much better if I could find a reason for this
blooping of coolant.
I should mention that I have a Grand Rapids EIS that tracks the head temps
on two heads - neither those nor the oil temp was too high. About 2.8 hours
of flying time before this flight, I had covered about 1/3rd of the radiator
surface to try to raise temps during winter flying. After doing this, I
climbed to 10,000 ft to watch temps and they were fine as they were for more
than 2 hours before this last flight. I don't think that covering part of
the radiator was a major cause, but of course it could have aggravated the
situation.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Lesson Learned
I was really worried for some time because as the engine was cooling and I
was adding 50/50 coolant, I decided to check the oil level. I was surprised
to see it near the top of the tank and decided that I had found where all
the coolant that I was adding was going. But later found NO coolant in the
oil and the oil level was Normal! (My panic was unjustified!)
Lesson? Check your levels when the engine is hot, so you will know what to
expect. I wish that I knew what the level in the over flow container should
be when the engine is hot.
Thanks for listening and tell me what I may be missing.
Randy - Series 5/7 - 912S
.
---------------------------------
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Elevator Trim systems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
All,
I am reworking a Model 5 that originally had the Electric Elevator Trim
Screw. I was intending on changing it to the trim tabs on the elevator and
replacing the Electric ElevatorTrim Screw with the hard link similar to the
retro kit that Skyster was offering. I was recently challenged on that
thought and was wondering what those of you out there flying either the
adjustable horizontal stab, the elevator trim tabs or both feel about the
subject? Which do you like and why?
Thanks,
Lloyd
Message 17
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| Subject: | 912S Gremlin, Advice needed and a lesson learned. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Randy,
Most likely had an air bubble in the system... another thing to check is
the location of the Overflow bottle.. should be lower then the expansion
tank. Check the hole in the cap as well.. I believe there was a service
bulletin on that issue.
Have a Safe New Year !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912S Gremlin, Advice needed and a lesson learned.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Returning home after a ride, we had just touched down and I noticed some
splashes on the windshield. (This is not good!) Since the temperatures
were all still good, I taxied on over to the hangar and my friend helped me
pull the cowl off.
By this time, we had identified the splashes as anti-freeze. I was
expecting to see some hose connection leaking, but all fittings were fine,
but the cowl above the overflow container was wet with Dexron. All the
fittings were dry. As we watched, the engine cooled and started sucking the
coolant back into the engine. I added between 32 and 39 oz. of 50/50 before
it all quit sucking back into the engine. This took several hours. This
still left the level in the overflow container near the minimum level.
My friend says that I just had too much fluid in the overflow container and
it flowed out as the engine warmed up. I don't buy this because; 1) I
haven't added anti-freeze over the whole 87.2 hours of flying prior to this
happening. 2) If this was just normal expansion, I would not have had to
add any additional coolant as the engine cooled. 3) I don't think it would
have put coolant all over the top cowl above the overflow container -
Although the air flow in the cowl may splash it around a good bit.
Anyway, I feel that somewhere (one head?) something was hot enough to boil
the coolant and that is what blew stuff out the top of the overflow. My
guess is that the flow to one head wasn't up to snuff and that caused the
problem. I have taken the hoses off the bottom of all the heads and blown
air down backwards through the head and can't detect any restriction in any
of the heads. I would feel much better if I could find a reason for this
blooping of coolant.
I should mention that I have a Grand Rapids EIS that tracks the head temps
on two heads - neither those nor the oil temp was too high. About 2.8 hours
of flying time before this flight, I had covered about 1/3rd of the radiator
surface to try to raise temps during winter flying. After doing this, I
climbed to 10,000 ft to watch temps and they were fine as they were for more
than 2 hours before this last flight. I don't think that covering part of
the radiator was a major cause, but of course it could have aggravated the
situation.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Lesson Learned
I was really worried for some time because as the engine was cooling and I
was adding 50/50 coolant, I decided to check the oil level. I was surprised
to see it near the top of the tank and decided that I had found where all
the coolant that I was adding was going. But later found NO coolant in the
oil and the oil level was Normal! (My panic was unjustified!)
Lesson? Check your levels when the engine is hot, so you will know what to
expect. I wish that I knew what the level in the over flow container should
be when the engine is hot.
Thanks for listening and tell me what I may be missing.
Randy - Series 5/7 - 912S
.
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim systems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
I have built and flown both. Both are good, the manual system is faster
to set for touch and go's, the electric is a little easier to fine tune
to hold altitude. The manual also is much heavier on the stick while in
the flair and on the ground, unless of course you use John McBeans super
system. The best is IMHO the electric with an oversized elevator, but I
like to be able to roll the tailwheel before the mains touch, even with
big tires. The down side is that at that AOA the wing will really pay
off and drop you so if you are a little high when that happens you drop
it in. I got a set of VG I am wanting to try to see if that helps, but
even if you drop it in if you hold the stick back you are down safe and
short.
Cudnohufsky's wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
>
>All,
>I am reworking a Model 5 that originally had the Electric Elevator Trim
>Screw. I was intending on changing it to the trim tabs on the elevator and
>replacing the Electric ElevatorTrim Screw with the hard link similar to the
>retro kit that Skyster was offering. I was recently challenged on that
>thought and was wondering what those of you out there flying either the
>adjustable horizontal stab, the elevator trim tabs or both feel about the
>subject? Which do you like and why?
>Thanks,
>Lloyd
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