---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/07/06: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:17 AM - Re: which weld (Clifford Begnaud) 2. 04:09 AM - Re: nameplate location (Lynn Matteson) 3. 04:54 AM - off topic (Mike Chaney) 4. 05:48 AM - Re: Tow Bar (Jim Burke) 5. 06:28 AM - Re: Tow Bar (mscotter@comcast.net) 6. 08:13 AM - Re: Tow Bar (Jim Burke) 7. 11:44 AM - Re: nameplate location (ron schick) 8. 01:34 PM - Trailing edge mod (ron schick) 9. 01:44 PM - Re: Trailing edge mod (Jay Fabian) 10. 01:44 PM - Re: which weld (Cudnohufsky's) 11. 02:18 PM - Re: Trailing edge mod (Vic Baker) 12. 02:46 PM - Re: Tow Bar pictures (Jim Burke) 13. 04:14 PM - Re: nameplate location (Lynn Matteson) 14. 04:41 PM - Re: Trailing edge mod (Lynn Matteson) 15. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Trailing edge mod (Paul Wilson) 16. 05:39 PM - Re: Trailing edge mod (jdmcbean) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:18 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: which weld --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Numerous Kitfoxes have had broken welds on motor mounts, rudder pedals and landing gear. Many of these can be found in the archives and many more have gone unreported. I don't know all that much about welding, but I wouldn't use mig in critical high stress areas based upon the failures that I know about. Cliff I know we want the best welds, but... the factory used mig on all of our planes, I havn't seen a problem with that in 20 years now... humm... 22 years. john Oakley over a thousand hours in fox's now.. and not nearly enough. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: nameplate location From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Thanks everybody for all the suggestions about the nameplate/data plate locations. I finally called my DAR-to-be and he wouldn't approve the tail access covers, so I made a backing plate and placed it behind the fabric, below and to the rear of the access cover on the left side, and far enough rearward to catch the vertical member that I had made to streamline the fin/rudder junction. This member is aluminum, and I caught two rivets in it, and the other two go through the fabric and the backing plate. Very sturdy, and no chance of buffeting, I'm pretty sure. Lynn ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:18 AM PST US From: Mike Chaney Subject: Kitfox-List: off topic --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney Sorry to go off topic. A co-worker of mine is moving to the Bend, Oregon area next month and I told her and her husband that I may have some contacts through this list to that area. If anyone in that area wouldn't mind giving her the low-down on that area I'm sure it would be appreciated. Please contact me off list at this email address or at poasttown@yahoo.com Thanks Mike Chaney ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:26 AM PST US From: Jim Burke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke Hi Mark, What are you calling the drop box? I have some pictures and I would more then happy to post them if the members are interested. Jim N94JE ----- Original Message ----- From: "mscotter" Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:21 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "mscotter" > > Hey guys, with so much interest maybe some pics should be posted in the > dropbox. Just an idea. > > Mark Scott > Elkton, MD > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Burke > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:28 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke > > Good point John, I think the pictures I sent the guys will help, But they > may want to take there own measurements. > > Jim,N94JE > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 11:59 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net >> >> be alert to the fact that the width of the IV's vary some at the tow bar >> carry through points. There are the IV-1050's, the IV-1200, and the IV >> Classic. It might be necessary to make some modifications in order to >> obtain the desired fit. >> >> John Kerr >> >> -------------- Original message -------------- >> From: Jim Burke >> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke >>> >>> Graeme, I will send you pictures with measurements that should help. I >>> also >>> think you should have the drawing Don has. I think I have seen it and it >>> was >>> a good reference. >>> >>> Jim N94JE > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:51 AM PST US From: mscotter@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar --> Kitfox-List message posted by: mscotter@comcast.net Jim, the dropbox is a repository for kitfox list stuff that is of value to all the membership. There is a wealth of info in there on everything from engines, to interiors, panels, trailers, and basically anything to do with the kitfox. Get ready to blow a few hours sifting through it. I have spent more than one late night checking out the great ideas in there. The address is: http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main I've never added anything to it, but as far as I know any list member can put things up in the dropbox. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than emailing the same thing to a bunch of different people, and then it benefits us all. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Jim Burke > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke > > Hi Mark, What are you calling the drop box? I have some pictures and I would > more then happy to post them if the members are interested. > > Jim N94JE Jim, the dropbox is a repository for kitfox list stuff that is of value to all the membership. There is a wealth of info in there on everything from engines, to interiors, panels, trailers, and basically anything to do with the kitfox. Get ready to blow a few hours sifting through it. I have spent more than one late night checking out the great ideas in there. The address is: http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main I've never added anything to it, but as far as I know any list member can put things up in the dropbox. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than emailing the same thing to a bunch of different people, and then it benefits us all. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Jim Burke jeburke94je@direcway.com -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke Hi Mark, What are you calling the drop box? I have some pictures and I would more then happy to post them if the members are interested. Jim N94JE ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:13 AM PST US From: Jim Burke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke Thanks Mark, I have Been there done that,I guess the words drop box had me a little confused. I will post some pictures of my tow bar yet this week, for the ones that are interested to view. Jim, 94JE ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: mscotter@comcast.net > > Jim, the dropbox is a repository for kitfox list stuff that is of value to > all the membership. There is a wealth of info in there on everything from > engines, to interiors, panels, trailers, and basically anything to do with > the kitfox. Get ready to blow a few hours sifting through it. I have > spent more than one late night checking out the great ideas in there. The > address is: > > http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main > > I've never added anything to it, but as far as I know any list member can > put things up in the dropbox. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than > emailing the same thing to a bunch of different people, and then it > benefits us all. > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: Jim Burke > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke >> >> Hi Mark, What are you calling the drop box? I have some pictures and I >> would >> more then happy to post them if the members are interested. >> >> Jim N94JE > > Jim, the dropbox is a repository for kitfox list stuff that is of value to > all the membership. There is a wealth of info in there on everything from > engines, to interiors, panels, trailers, and basically anything to do with > the kitfox. Get ready to blow a few hours sifting through it. I have spent > more than one late night checking out the great ideas in there. The > address is: > > http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main > > I've never added anything to it, but as far as I know any list member can > put things up in the dropbox. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than > emailing the same thing to a bunch of different people, and then it > benefits us all. > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: Jim Burke jeburke94je@direcway.com > > -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke > > Hi Mark, What are you calling the drop box? I have some pictures and I > would > more then happy to post them if the members are interested. > > Jim N94JE > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:18 AM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: nameplate location --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" Good call Lynn. Where is your dar coming from? Ron NB Ore do not archive >From: Lynn Matteson >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: nameplate location >Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 07:11:29 -0500 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > >Thanks everybody for all the suggestions about the nameplate/data plate >locations. I finally called my DAR-to-be and he wouldn't approve the >tail access covers, so I made a backing plate and placed it behind the >fabric, below and to the rear of the access cover on the left side, and >far enough rearward to catch the vertical member that I had made to >streamline the fin/rudder junction. This member is aluminum, and I >caught two rivets in it, and the other two go through the fabric and >the backing plate. Very sturdy, and no chance of buffeting, I'm pretty >sure. > >Lynn > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:23 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailing edge mod --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" The consensus of the group was that I should add the 3/8" aluminum tubing to my trailing edge before covering. As my manual does not cover this I was wondering how close to the ribs this should come. Any other tips? No 3/8" aluminum tubing in my town, but lots of used 3/8" aluminum arrow shafts. Thanks. Ron NB Ore ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:45 PM PST US From: "Jay Fabian" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailing edge mod --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" I used the expandable foam. Just prayed it in let it over flow, and cut it off with a razor blade. Just get the regular type not the super expand type. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron schick" Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailing edge mod > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" > > > The consensus of the group was that I should add the 3/8" aluminum tubing > to > my trailing edge before covering. As my manual does not cover this I was > wondering how close to the ribs this should come. Any other tips? No > 3/8" aluminum tubing in my town, but lots of used 3/8" aluminum arrow > shafts. Thanks. Ron NB Ore > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:46 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@Chartermi.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: which weld --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> Mark, I repaired the aft section of my Model 5 fuselage using mig, I contacted the factory and asked what wire they were using and bought the exact wire. I copped all joints / clusters for a tight fit, I used straight burrs of various sizes in my drill press with a block of wood clamped on the table as a steady rest (crude but effective). I then emery papered and de-burred the ends before assembly. Before welding I pre-heated the joints. I would always cut the end of my wire before starting my weld so the bead that was left from the last weld was gone. After all was welded I used a heavy black sand (can't remember the name) to sand blast all the tubing and especially the weld joints (has some stress relieving attributes) before priming and painting. I am very happy with the results. One last thing, I used our local EAA Chapter tech counselor as a resource, he is an A&P and an inspector so he checked my work along the way, made sure I didn't do something dumb. And yes, practice is good. What I found was as I built clusters they required more attention to pre-heat and weld technique as the mass would tend to weld cold if you did not direct your arc heat there as opposed to the tube you were adding to the cluster, hope that makes sense to you. Good luck, and have fun!! Lloyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: which weld > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark.Summers@lwbref.com > > > I sure appreciate everyone's comments and opinions, I believe I will let > my > friend give the mig a try on some extra .035 1/2" tube pieces to get a > feel and if he says go , we go. I have heard or read that 100% argon > sheilding gas is recommended over the argon co2 mix. I hate to keep asking > questions butttt. Thanks again Mark > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:51 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailing edge mod From: "Vic Baker" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Baker" I installed 5/16 tubing, zero clearance between ribs. (3/8 tubing would not quite fit my trailing edge) The tubing is available from ACS. I used a full 350 degree heat shrink and I could still see a very slight deformation in that trailing edge. -------- Vic Baker Series 7 Carson City, Nevada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10689#10689 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:23 PM PST US From: Jim Burke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar pictures --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke I have posted pictures of my tow bar on sportFlight in trailers and towing. http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1139351404 If someone wants to build there own I hope the pictures help. I would think you would want to do your own measurements for you plane to make sure it fits correct. Mine is a mod. IV-1200. Jim,N94JE ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: nameplate location From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson From Pontiac, Michigan...I'm in Grass Lake, MI. Lynn On Tuesday, February 7, 2006, at 02:40 PM, ron schick wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" > > > Good call Lynn. Where is your dar coming from? > Ron NB Ore > do not archive > >> From: Lynn Matteson >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: nameplate location >> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 07:11:29 -0500 >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson >> >> Thanks everybody for all the suggestions about the nameplate/data >> plate >> locations. I finally called my DAR-to-be and he wouldn't approve the >> tail access covers, so I made a backing plate and placed it behind the >> fabric, below and to the rear of the access cover on the left side, >> and >> far enough rearward to catch the vertical member that I had made to >> streamline the fin/rudder junction. This member is aluminum, and I >> caught two rivets in it, and the other two go through the fabric and >> the backing plate. Very sturdy, and no chance of buffeting, I'm pretty >> sure. >> >> Lynn >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailing edge mod From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson 3/8" arrow shafts, Ron? Wow, that seems huge. My Dad was an archer and I've got a lot of his old arrows around here, mostly fiberglas, and none are over 5/16". I'd hate to be on the receiving end of a 3/8" arrow! : ) Anyway, I got 3/8" tubing from Aircraft Spruce, 6061-T6, item #03-35500, $.99/ft., and I got two 12 ft lengths of it, because mine is a Speedster with wings just 12' long each. I cut each to fit between the ribs/rib caps. Skystar manual calls for .028-.035" wall thickness. This is in the Classic IV manual, Aug '03 revision. With this stiffening, SS says you can go to 350 degrees on the fabric....that seems like a bit much to me, and I quit at 310...very tight. As far as how close to the ribs, I left mine short about 1/8" to allow for any condensation to be free to find the drain holes in the fabric. I smeared structural adhesive the length of the individual tubes, then rolled them in the trailing edge, and rotated them to spread the epoxy. Lynn On Tuesday, February 7, 2006, at 04:32 PM, ron schick wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" > > > The consensus of the group was that I should add the 3/8" aluminum > tubing to > my trailing edge before covering. As my manual does not cover this I > was > wondering how close to the ribs this should come. Any other tips? > No > 3/8" aluminum tubing in my town, but lots of used 3/8" aluminum arrow > shafts. Thanks. Ron NB Ore > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:21 PM PST US From: Paul Wilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailing edge mod --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul Wilson Is there a link I have missed with a picture of the installation? Thanks, Paul ============= At 02:17 PM 2/7/2006, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Baker" > >I installed 5/16 tubing, zero clearance between ribs. (3/8 tubing would >not quite fit my trailing edge) The tubing is available from ACS. I used >a full 350 degree heat shrink and I could still see a very slight >deformation in that trailing edge. > >-------- >Vic Baker >Series 7 >Carson City, Nevada > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10689#10689 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:58 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Trailing edge mod --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Ron, We did this on the Series 7 and then again on the Sport.. It became part of the manual shortly after... .375 x .035 wall aluminum tubing cut to fit just inside rib to rib.. Watch the edges.. there is a Hysol bead that will keep the tubing too high.. After you get them fitted use Hysol to bond them in and then rivet to the inside edge... Shrunk to 350 on several different aircraft including the factory aircraft.. worked great. Fly Safe !! John McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ron schick Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailing edge mod --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" The consensus of the group was that I should add the 3/8" aluminum tubing to my trailing edge before covering. As my manual does not cover this I was wondering how close to the ribs this should come. Any other tips? No 3/8" aluminum tubing in my town, but lots of used 3/8" aluminum arrow shafts. Thanks. Ron NB Ore