Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:20 AM - Re: Diodes (Shaun Smith)
2. 05:40 AM - Re: engine out (Jerry Liles)
3. 06:23 AM - Re: engine out (John Larsen)
4. 07:38 AM - Re: engine out (kirk hull)
5. 07:38 AM - Re: Air start on 912ULS (Chenoweth)
6. 08:25 AM - Re: Air start on 912ULS (Lowell Fitt)
7. 10:16 AM - Re: Air start on 912ULS (Andrew Matthaey)
8. 11:40 AM - Re: SV: Re: Welcome (Michel Verheughe)
9. 12:11 PM - Re: Air start on 912ULS (kurt schrader)
10. 12:27 PM - PDA Gps (Eric)
11. 01:27 PM - Re: Odyssey Batterys (dcaofak)
12. 01:49 PM - Re: PDA Gps (Peter Graichen)
13. 01:51 PM - Re: PDA Gps (Aerobatics@aol.com)
14. 03:03 PM - Re: PDA Gps (Dan Billingsley)
15. 03:19 PM - Re: PDA Gps (wingnut)
16. 03:44 PM - Re: PDA Gps (Andy Fultz)
17. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: PDA Gps (Fred Shiple)
18. 04:23 PM - Re: PDA Gps good point, but (Aerobatics@aol.com)
19. 04:49 PM - Re: PDA Gps (James Shumaker)
20. 05:02 PM - Re: Air start on 912ULS (James Shumaker)
21. 05:34 PM - Re: PDA Gps (wingnut)
22. 09:37 PM - Re: Air start on 912ULS (temco@telusplanet.net)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Shaun Smith <shaun-s@sbcglobal.net>
please no more email thank you!
Rex Shaw <rexjan@bigpond.com> wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Shaw"
I haven't dealt with such high tension diodes before,
but it seems to me likely that only one broke down in
the bunch. Do you know of a way to adequately test
these and replace only the bad one?
Obviously they will have to be seperated first for
testing. The problem I think is that it may test well
at low voltage or with a meter and only fail under
higher voltages.
This could be a more economical repair. But then I
wonder if unmatched diodes will cause a weaker one to
break down more quickly? I've not gone beyond 120
volt diodes in my experience.
Kurt S.
Hi ! Kurt,
I don't know what this box NSI is using is all about, however I can answer some
of your questions on a theoretical basis as an electronics tech.
First high voltage solid state components like doides did tend to be a weak point
but newer versions are dramatically improved so take heart that a repair or
rebuild will likely be effective. Also be aware heat is a big time killer of
solid state components so just a little effort in this regard might also work
wonders.
When relacing your faulty doide[s] find the original doide voltage and current
ratings and at at least equal those figures with your replacements especially
the voltage I think in your case. This may not be a hard task as you might think.
OK lets answer your questions.
[1] to test a diode. Yes you basically need to isolate it but if it is one in a
string that is no problem so long as there is no possible path from the end of
the string back to the start. To test a diode you just use an ohm meter [ ie:-
the ohms scale on a multimeter and personally I prefer an analogue meter for
this purpose] Just measure across the diode you are checking with one meter
lead on each end of the diode and the meter on ohms, then swap the two leads around.
One way around you will have a low ohms reding like probably 30 0hms the
other you will have a very high reading. In fact if you are on the low ohms
scale it should be no reading as if you did not put the leads on the diode at
all. In other words reading open circuit, but if you you swap to a high ohms scale
then you should get a reading. take care not to confuse the issue by putting
your fingers on the leads as you will get a high ohms reading through your
body and this will confuse the issue. Take note rou!
ghly of your high and low readings. Diodes have polarity. In other words putting
the leads one way around gives you a low reading and the other high. In fact
it should be that you will see a band painted around one end of the diode and
with your red meter lead on this end is when you should see your low reading.
If not don't panic you just have your meter setup wrong and this won't matter.
However the way around you put the old diode or a relacement back in circuit
definitely does. You won't get a second chance at this. So the way to know which
way around to fit the diode is by this band or failing that by using your
meter as described you can work it out. It sounds like in your circuit you have
a string of diodes one after the other and they will just go band end to no
band end etc down the string. Back to the testing. Any diode with significantly
different reading is faultly. Typically this will be with low ohms readings
both ways around and might even be a short circuit !
as if you were putting the meter leads together, however a fau!
lty diod
e may measure open circuit. Usually however it will be short circuit. Now one final
point here is that some high voltage diodes might need the meter on a higher
than the lowest ohms scale to get a reading even in the low direction. If
you find this that's OK so long as all diodes are similar.
[2] Right if just one diode has failed you can just replace that with no effect
on the others but I would suggest that if one has failed the others might also
be close so consider changing them all especially if you can get better rated
diodes than the originals. Basically if your diodes check OK at lower voltage
[ ie:- on your meter ] they will still be OK at higher voltage as when they
break down they brake down but that is not 100% just 99.99%.
[3] I think I have already answered your third question. A new diode in with old
ones is not really a problem basically. If in doubt just change them all. It's
too complicated to try and explain better.
I hope this helps both you and others that encounter this problem as it seems to
me it should not be much of a problem at all to put right. However if you are
still having difficulty feel free to ask me further.
Rex.
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
No problem Herbert. I see where the confusion comes and understand your
concern. I bet an engine out with the overrunnig clutch is a real
sphincter tightener. The clutch for the 582 is an aftermarket item for
the C Gearbox and it is a massive centrifugal clutch. Works great on
the two stroke but it is different than the overrunning clutch on the NSI.
Jerry Liles
Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Herbert R Gottelt <gofalke@sbcglobal.net>
>
>O.K. Jerry,
>
> My apologies, I am familiar with the overrunning clutch or one way clutch that
Tom Anderson has on his Series 5 with the NSI engine. You probably referred
to a friction clutch with spring type fly weights, similar to the clutch on my
chain saw and hopefully stronger and more substantial.
>
> Herbert Gottelt
>
>Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles
>
>
>Herbert
>I installed the clutch on Tootie Mae during construction and have always
>flown with it. The engine starts easily and idles smoother than any
>other 582 I've seen. She will warm up at 2200rpms quite nicely except
>in coldest winter, and, since the clutch doesn't engage until 2400rpm,
>the prop is stopped. Hand propping is a real problem, that's why I have
>the rope starter. It's also nice to idle the engine and not have to
>stand on the brakes while doing preflight checks and getting clearance
>from the tower. Little things, true, but they certainly are nice. The
>biggest negative is the windmilling prop if the engine quits. The glide
>does suffer, but, since I practice engine out landings every landing I'm
>used to it and probably better prepared than the usual pilot.
>
>Jerry Liles
>
>Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Herbert R Gottelt
>>
>>Jerry,
>>if you had a prop clutch installed, I doubt that you could warm up your engine
without the prop turning. On the other hand, you are going to have a heck of
the time to hand prop it. :-)
>>
>>Herbert Gottelt,
>>Mt. Prospect, IL
>>
>>Jerry Liles wrote:
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles
>>
>>Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
>>discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
>>enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
>>you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
>>prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
>>given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
>>
>>If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
>>clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
>>practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
>>without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
>>smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
>>quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
>>prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
>>in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine running.
>>
>>Jerry Liles
>>
>>Chenoweth wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
It is different in principle but the effects are the same in that the
prop will freewheel when the engine quits. That is why Lance had to come
up with a CAP. If you don't think a freewheeling prop doesnt have a lot
of drag/lift, then you don't believe a gyrocopter can fly.
Jerry Liles wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
>
>No problem Herbert. I see where the confusion comes and understand your
>concern. I bet an engine out with the overrunnig clutch is a real
>sphincter tightener. The clutch for the 582 is an aftermarket item for
>the C Gearbox and it is a massive centrifugal clutch. Works great on
>the two stroke but it is different than the overrunning clutch on the NSI.
>Jerry Liles
>
>Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Herbert R Gottelt <gofalke@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>>O.K. Jerry,
>>
>> My apologies, I am familiar with the overrunning clutch or one way clutch that
Tom Anderson has on his Series 5 with the NSI engine. You probably referred
to a friction clutch with spring type fly weights, similar to the clutch on my
chain saw and hopefully stronger and more substantial.
>>
>> Herbert Gottelt
>>
>>Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com> wrote:
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles
>>
>>
>>Herbert
>>I installed the clutch on Tootie Mae during construction and have always
>>flown with it. The engine starts easily and idles smoother than any
>>other 582 I've seen. She will warm up at 2200rpms quite nicely except
>>in coldest winter, and, since the clutch doesn't engage until 2400rpm,
>>the prop is stopped. Hand propping is a real problem, that's why I have
>>the rope starter. It's also nice to idle the engine and not have to
>>stand on the brakes while doing preflight checks and getting clearance
>>
>>
>>from the tower. Little things, true, but they certainly are nice. The
>
>
>>biggest negative is the windmilling prop if the engine quits. The glide
>>does suffer, but, since I practice engine out landings every landing I'm
>>used to it and probably better prepared than the usual pilot.
>>
>>Jerry Liles
>>
>>Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Herbert R Gottelt
>>>
>>>Jerry,
>>>if you had a prop clutch installed, I doubt that you could warm up your engine
without the prop turning. On the other hand, you are going to have a heck of
the time to hand prop it. :-)
>>>
>>>Herbert Gottelt,
>>>Mt. Prospect, IL
>>>
>>>Jerry Liles wrote:
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles
>>>
>>>Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
>>>discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
>>>enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
>>>you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
>>>prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
>>>given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
>>>
>>>If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
>>>clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
>>>practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
>>>without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
>>>smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
>>>quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
>>>prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
>>>in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine running.
>>>
>>>Jerry Liles
>>>
>>>Chenoweth wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
Thats why many twins can fearher the props on a dead engine.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Larsen
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: engine out
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
It is different in principle but the effects are the same in that the
prop will freewheel when the engine quits. That is why Lance had to come
up with a CAP. If you don't think a freewheeling prop doesnt have a lot
of drag/lift, then you don't believe a gyrocopter can fly.
Jerry Liles wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
>
>No problem Herbert. I see where the confusion comes and understand your
>concern. I bet an engine out with the overrunnig clutch is a real
>sphincter tightener. The clutch for the 582 is an aftermarket item for
>the C Gearbox and it is a massive centrifugal clutch. Works great on
>the two stroke but it is different than the overrunning clutch on the NSI.
>Jerry Liles
>
>Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Herbert R Gottelt
<gofalke@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>>O.K. Jerry,
>>
>> My apologies, I am familiar with the overrunning clutch or one way clutch
that Tom Anderson has on his Series 5 with the NSI engine. You probably
referred to a friction clutch with spring type fly weights, similar to the
clutch on my chain saw and hopefully stronger and more substantial.
>>
>> Herbert Gottelt
>>
>>Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com> wrote:
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles
>>
>>
>>Herbert
>>I installed the clutch on Tootie Mae during construction and have always
>>flown with it. The engine starts easily and idles smoother than any
>>other 582 I've seen. She will warm up at 2200rpms quite nicely except
>>in coldest winter, and, since the clutch doesn't engage until 2400rpm,
>>the prop is stopped. Hand propping is a real problem, that's why I have
>>the rope starter. It's also nice to idle the engine and not have to
>>stand on the brakes while doing preflight checks and getting clearance
>>
>>
>>from the tower. Little things, true, but they certainly are nice. The
>
>
>>biggest negative is the windmilling prop if the engine quits. The glide
>>does suffer, but, since I practice engine out landings every landing I'm
>>used to it and probably better prepared than the usual pilot.
>>
>>Jerry Liles
>>
>>Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Herbert R Gottelt
>>>
>>>Jerry,
>>>if you had a prop clutch installed, I doubt that you could warm up your
engine without the prop turning. On the other hand, you are going to have a
heck of the time to hand prop it. :-)
>>>
>>>Herbert Gottelt,
>>>Mt. Prospect, IL
>>>
>>>Jerry Liles wrote:
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles
>>>
>>>Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
>>>discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
>>>enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
>>>you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
>>>prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
>>>given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
>>>
>>>If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
>>>clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
>>>practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
>>>without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
>>>smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
>>>quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
>>>prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
>>>in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine running.
>>>
>>>Jerry Liles
>>>
>>>Chenoweth wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Air start on 912ULS |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Andrew,
One of the reasons I posted my first ever shut down was my surprise at the
difference in stall speed between an idling and stopped engine. That hasn't
seemed to have surprised anyone - at least no one has expressed surprise.
Have you found the same difference in stall speeds in your shutdowns? Also,
do you have best glide speeds for a stopped engine glide?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:24 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
<spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
>
> Half Moon Bay?! Would that be in California? I've heard of the airport -
if
> you take-off and head west from it in FlightSimulator, you'll hit an
> aircraft carrier in the Pacific...
>
> Anywho, I routinely shut-down in the air just because I like the feeling
of
> gliding...don't ever count on air-restart with these engines (and I have a
> 582). It's starter or ropestart only!
>
> It was a surprise then when I started my Multi-Engine training some months
> ago to find that after a complete shut-down of the right engine (including
> prop-feather), the engine WILL airstart once you bring the props forward
out
> of feather!
>
> Andrew
>
>
> >From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
> >Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:57:49 +0000
> >
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill"
> ><clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
> >
> >With all the talk about engine out, decided to try a dead engine
condition.
> >Up to 3500 ft over Half Moon Bay airport. Shut engine down, checked
glide
> >at 65 & 70 mph. At 70 was even 500 ft/min prop stopped. Could not get
an
> >airstart. Air speed up to 140, prop turned through compression about 3
> >times, down to 1200 feet, started engine with starter. No air start with
> >those high compression engines. Clint
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Air start on 912ULS |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
This is an interesting subject.
Several years ago during one of the Idaho back contry trips, we were flying
over some pretty unfriendly ground - lots of trees and low mountains - and
needing something to occupy my mind, I started thinking of the in air
restart and was tempted to shut down to experience what Clint mentioned. I
didn't do it, wisely as I learned. Our next landing was at Cavanaugh Bay
and my heart was in my throat as we prepared to depart, I hit the starter
and nothing happened. A little corrosion on the spade terminal on the
starter solenoid essentially rendered the start circuit inop.
Clint's try over the airport showed some wise planning.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
> <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
>
> Half Moon Bay?! Would that be in California? I've heard of the airport -
> if
> you take-off and head west from it in FlightSimulator, you'll hit an
> aircraft carrier in the Pacific...
>
> Anywho, I routinely shut-down in the air just because I like the feeling
> of
> gliding...don't ever count on air-restart with these engines (and I have a
> 582). It's starter or ropestart only!
>
> It was a surprise then when I started my Multi-Engine training some months
> ago to find that after a complete shut-down of the right engine (including
> prop-feather), the engine WILL airstart once you bring the props forward
> out
> of feather!
>
> Andrew
>
>
>>From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
>>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
>>Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:57:49 +0000
>>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill"
>><clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
>>
>>With all the talk about engine out, decided to try a dead engine
>>condition.
>>Up to 3500 ft over Half Moon Bay airport. Shut engine down, checked glide
>>at 65 & 70 mph. At 70 was even 500 ft/min prop stopped. Could not get an
>>airstart. Air speed up to 140, prop turned through compression about 3
>>times, down to 1200 feet, started engine with starter. No air start with
>>those high compression engines. Clint
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Air start on 912ULS |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Yep - a prop spinning at idle should, in my experience, increase the
stall-speed. In multi-engine training, you don't always shut-down and
feather one motor for practice. Instead, you idle the engine (which causes a
lot of drag), and then increase the throttle slightly to simulate
zero-thrust (also, minimum of drag, such as when the prop is feathered).
As far as a best-glide speed is...In my Model 3, I find my Min-Sink airspeed
first. That gives me the lowest rate of descent, but not best-glide. Now
Best-glide is usually just a little faster, so if my min-sink speed is 50,
I'll add a few mph and fly at 55, a good rough speed.
In my primary training a couple years ago I flew a motorglider a few times.
With some manuevering, you can plot data points on a graph to make a Power
Required/Power Available curve. Then it's very easy to find the exact speeds
you're looking for (for your actual aircraft, not generic!). I'd have to dig
around my notes somewhat because I forget the exact way to get the data in
the aircraft...
Andrew
>From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
>Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:33:58 -0500
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>
>Andrew,
>One of the reasons I posted my first ever shut down was my surprise at the
>difference in stall speed between an idling and stopped engine. That
>hasn't
>seemed to have surprised anyone - at least no one has expressed surprise.
>Have you found the same difference in stall speeds in your shutdowns?
>Also,
>do you have best glide speeds for a stopped engine glide?
>Bill
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:24 AM
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
><spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Half Moon Bay?! Would that be in California? I've heard of the airport -
>if
> > you take-off and head west from it in FlightSimulator, you'll hit an
> > aircraft carrier in the Pacific...
> >
> > Anywho, I routinely shut-down in the air just because I like the feeling
>of
> > gliding...don't ever count on air-restart with these engines (and I have
>a
> > 582). It's starter or ropestart only!
> >
> > It was a surprise then when I started my Multi-Engine training some
>months
> > ago to find that after a complete shut-down of the right engine
>(including
> > prop-feather), the engine WILL airstart once you bring the props forward
>out
> > of feather!
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> > >From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
> > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
> > >Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:57:49 +0000
> > >
> > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill"
> > ><clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > >With all the talk about engine out, decided to try a dead engine
>condition.
> > >Up to 3500 ft over Half Moon Bay airport. Shut engine down, checked
>glide
> > >at 65 & 70 mph. At 70 was even 500 ft/min prop stopped. Could not get
>an
> > >airstart. Air speed up to 140, prop turned through compression about 3
> > >times, down to 1200 feet, started engine with starter. No air start
>with
> > >those high compression engines. Clint
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: SV: Re: Welcome |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Feb 17, 2006, at 7:16 PM, wingnut wrote:
> Are you on the kitfox owners map on frappr?
Yes, I am Luis. Here is the link:
http://www.frappr.com/?a=myfrappr&id=78369
Hasta luego,
Michel (de vuelta en Noruega!)
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Air start on 912ULS |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Bill,
OK, to respond to the stall speed changes....
This is one of the things I had to be very careful of
when I did my stall testing with a CAP prop. You
could get very different stall speeds with different
prop pitch settings that would throw off all your
other data.
This is also when an angle of attack system really
helps. The same AOA should give you best results with
all other changes. Your glide path will vary with
conditions, but with AOA, you can always find the best
glide given your current condition. Make sense?
I think that the fuselage and wing root section lift
can be greatly infleuenced by prop blast or
windmilling prop wake. You face both the problem of
prop drag and steeper glide from a windmilling prop,
with the greater stall speed of the destroyed lift
behind the windmilling prop. Then you add the false
impression of good glides from idle prop thrust with
the engine running. All this makes for a more
difficult time in judging engine out practice landings
from real ones.
When I got my KitFox tailwheel checkout in an S-4, I
was surprised at how steep a glide I needed. Engine
out patterns had to be close to the runway! I was
always low and short at first.
I would suggest that any engine out testing be done at
higher altitudes with a planned restart by 2000`AGL.
Make sure to be over a landing place in case of no
restart. The 2000` will give you more time to set up
for landing and then try the restart. Plan to land
engine out, then restart. Quit trying to restart
whenever you need to pay attention to landing.
Make sure you don`t have an engine failure again down
low after you have overflown your runway. We lost one
KitFox pilot in Mexico from that and I have heard of
other pilots being caught the same way. They power
away from their landing, then the engine quits.
Instead, start the engine on descent and land anyway.
There is a lot more that can be covered on this
subject. Maybe that is why no one jumped right in.
It can get very complex, but is necessary to know.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" <iworonko@cox.net>
Hi folks,
I am getting ready to buy a PDA with intent of using it as a nav GPS. Searching
the internet for aviation GPS software for a PDA left me confused and frustrated.
Is anyone out there using a PDA for navigation?
If so,which software and how would you rate it.
Thanks in advance for any info.
Eric
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batterys |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcaofak" <dcaofak@acsalaska.net>
"Hey John. Which model did you get?
-Luis"
My battery is a Power Sonic model PS-12180NB with 18 amps cranking power. This
is the same battery we use in Super Cubs when moving the battery to the boot
cowl.
"Do I understand from your post that you don't have a master solenoid?
Lowell"
You are correct, I do not have a master solenoid.
This was primarily for weight saving. My model III, 582 tipped the scales at 439
1/2 lbs with the radio (panel mount handheld) and ELT on board.
Regards,
John Stoner
KF3, 582
Alaska
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
Hi Eric:
I have a HP Ipac with Anywhere Map software. Have had it for several years
and love it.
Peter Graichen
http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Sunday, 19 February, 2006 15:24
Subject: Kitfox-List: PDA Gps
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" <iworonko@cox.net>
Hi folks,
I am getting ready to buy a PDA with intent of using it as a nav GPS.
Searching the internet for aviation GPS software for a PDA left me confused
and frustrated. Is anyone out there using a PDA for navigation?
If so,which software and how would you rate it.
Thanks in advance for any info.
Eric
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
I have seen two that look pretty good and the price is dropping....
_Anywhere Map - Aviation GPS with Weather_ (http://www.anywheremap.com/)
_NAVAir Moving Map and EFB_ (http://www.airgator.com/)
I have a Garmin IQue 3600 as a PDA/GPS (street) and a Garmin 195 for Nav
plus GPS in Plane... all work great.
I really like the idea of WX. I have played with the 396 and its fantastic.
I do also have Pilot MY Cast for weather and TFR on my phone......
Gee I am personally leaning towards Anywhere Map with WX bluetooth
version... 4705
last year it was around 2,200 now 1,700.
I would love to hear from users too....
Dave
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
Hi Eric,
I guess I can throw my two cent responce in as that's about what it is worth.
I have done similar research looking at PDA's , GPS's, package deals, etc. This
was about a year ago so I'm sure things have changed a bit, but at the time
the Compaq Ipaq had the most going for it. I have used Palm PDA's for some time
due to business applications used, but I was a bit miffed that Palm (or third
party vendors) didn't keep up to speed with the aviation applications like
I was seeing on the PC based units.
A question might be asked here...Why would you be interested in getting a PDA,
The GPS that attaches to it, the software that works between the two and deal
with the wires that will go between when there are so many aviation GPS units
that are both portable and capable? Just curious,
Dan
Mesa, AZ
www.azshowersolutions.com/Kitfox1.html
Eric <iworonko@cox.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric"
Hi folks,
I am getting ready to buy a PDA with intent of using it as a nav GPS. Searching
the internet for aviation GPS software for a PDA left me confused and frustrated.
Is anyone out there using a PDA for navigation?
If so,which software and how would you rate it.
Thanks in advance for any info.
Eric
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
I'm currently in the process of installing a PDA gps solution. It's been quite
a learning experience. Here are the major points.
For a PDA, I went with a Dell Axim 3i because it seemed like the sweet spot for
me in terms of price/performance. I picked it up on Ebay with some accessories
for $120. Now that I have it set up, I wish I had gone with something more powerful.
Panning is very slow when zoomed out past 20 miles.
For a GPS sensor, I picked the Garmin GPS 18 hooked via a serial cable. A Bluetooth
sensor would have been easier to install but I didnt want to deal with batteries
and a Bluetooth enabled PDA would have been more expensive. If youre going
to wire the sensor to the airplanes power buss, theres no advantage to the
Bluetooth sensor because youre running wires anyway.
Dont forget to budget some extra flash memory for the PDA to fit all the charts.
Also, if dont go with the Bluetooth sensor, you will need an interface cable
to go from the PDA to the GPS (prices vary quite a bit depending on the model
of the PDA).
One wrinkle I had was wiring power to the PDA (again, I didnt want to deal with
having to keep the PDAs battery charged). Normally, the cigarette lighter style
power adapter will contain a voltage regulator to adapt the 12V vehicle power
to the 5V that the PDA needs. I wanted a more permanent setup with all the
wires behind the panel so I had to put in my own voltage regulator in line with
the power going to PDA.
The last part is the software. I went with Pocket FMS mainly because it was free.
There are some nicer looking packages out there but they can be as much as
$500. At that price, I would have just gone with a Garmin 296 (once you add in
the hardware) so it didnt make sense to me. It does a decent job but I still
make it a point to not depend on it too much.
Hope this all helps.
-Luis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13408#13408
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
Eric,
I don't know much about the other offerings out there, but I, too, have
had ANYWHERE MAP for a few years now and I'm still pleased with the results
I get. If I were to do it again I would definately go with ANYWHERE MAP
again.
Andy F.
Subject: Kitfox-List: PDA Gps
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" <iworonko@cox.net>
Hi folks,
I am getting ready to buy a PDA with intent of using it as a nav GPS.
Searching the internet for aviation GPS software for a PDA left me confused
and frustrated. Is anyone out there using a PDA for navigation?
If so,which software and how would you rate it.
Thanks in advance for any info.
Eric
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple <fredshiple@sbcglobal.net>
In the past 6 months The Aviation Consumer reviewed
the 5 or 6 major players and indicated the PDA in the
cockpit is not ready for prime time. The biggest
concern was viewability in direct sunlight. I stayed
with my Garmin.
Fred
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: PDA Gps good point, but |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
In a message dated 2/19/2006 5:04:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
dan@azshowersolutions.com writes:
Hi Eric,
I guess I can throw my two cent responce in as that's about what it is
worth. I have done similar research looking at PDA's , GPS's, package deals, etc.
This was about a year ago so I'm sure things have changed a bit, but at the
time the Compaq Ipaq had the most going for it. I have used Palm PDA's for
some time due to business applications used, but I was a bit miffed that Palm
(or third party vendors) didn't keep up to speed with the aviation applications
like I was seeing on the PC based units.
A question might be asked here...Why would you be interested in getting a
PDA, The GPS that attaches to it, the software that works between the two and
deal with the wires that will go between when there are so many aviation GPS
units that are both portable and capable? Just curious,
Dan
Mesa, AZ
www.azshowersolutions.com/Kitfox1.html
Eric <iworonko@cox.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric"
Hi folks,
I am getting ready to buy a PDA with intent of using it as a nav GPS.
Searching the internet for aviation GPS software for a PDA left me confused and
frustrated. Is anyone out there using a PDA for navigation?
If so,which software and how would you rate it.
Thanks in advance for any info.
Eric
If you want weather, and I do, the 396 is 2,500 bucks. The Anywhere Map is
around 800 bucks cheaper with WX. That's a lot.
The Anywhere map has a bit nice screen and a bit smaller.
I have a Garmin IQUE 3600 with a touch screen, I really like it, the Garmin
396 doesn't, the Anywhere does...
The cones of safety seems really cool that Anywhere has...
And I can take the PDA home and use it as a PDA, like I do all the time with
the Garmin IQue 3600
Anywhere has Bluetooth for WX, I dont think the 396 does, and that's a
really nice feature.
I think they are both great units.
If my pocket book was unlimited I would have a 396 and a new PDA...........
:-)
Dave
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Eric
I have been flying with the Ipaq and Anywhere map for several years.
It requires hard-wires for power and gps and interfacing.
It is a computer so it will crash on you.
It requires upgrading and maintenance and it has several modes of failure.
The Garmin 295 is similar and much less likely to fail.
The latest Ipaq PDA and a gig of memory is the MINIMUM for effective use.
Since reliability is so requisite for aviation use, a dedicated unit like a 295
is much more sensible.
If you cannot be talked out of getting one then here are the advantages. It
can be hardwired into the panel on a mount, and then easily removed for upgrades
or other uses.
As a computer the software can be easily upgraded and it can serve more than
one purpose. New upgrades are downloaded. You can carry charts and taxiway position
is indicated while taxiing. Instrument approaches and holds are stored
and very usable for those hazy days. You do not need to replace the whole unit
when things like weather are a useful upgrade.
Even though the software is upgraded by subscription and makes it more versatile,
the Ipaq still needs to be replaced when the software slows the operation.
I have an Ipaq 3800 which is just 4 years old and it needs t be replaced because
it is getting to be too slow.
To summarize; the Ipaq with Anywhere Map is an incredible system that beats
all the competition hands down. But the system uses a PDA which is just a personal
computer with all the quirks, foibles and shortcomings of being a general
purpose computer. If you want a reliable, useful GPS get a dedicated unit.
The guy that talked me into getting mine is a Citation Chauffeur. He has a glass
cockpit with two moving maps, and a backup on the panel. He and the copilot
each have their own Ipaqs on Anywhere Map. Then he has two tablet that are
dedicated to weight and balance and flight planning. So yes the Anywhere map
has features that are not on other software.
Hope this helps
Jim Shumaker
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Air start on 912ULS |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Bill
Yes I had the same reaction from the list several years ago. There had been
two or three off field landing where the pilots had reported that they had the
landing made and then over ran the landing field and hit a ditch or something.
I went up and test with idle prop and engine off and discovered that the stall
is much higher and the glide was much better with the prop stopped (about
5 mph and about 2 points in glide). I guess everyone else already knew this
or they did not believe me because I got virtually no response. Or maybe they
just went out and practiced. So, no, we are not surprised by the increase in
stall or the increase in glide. The MAGNITUDE of the difference is what cathes
us off guard.
Jim Shumaker
Chenoweth <chenoweth@gwi.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
Andrew,
One of the reasons I posted my first ever shut down was my surprise at the
difference in stall speed between an idling and stopped engine. That hasn't
seemed to have surprised anyone - at least no one has expressed surprise.
Have you found the same difference in stall speeds in your shutdowns? Also,
do you have best glide speeds for a stopped engine glide?
Bill
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
I agree that you can't compare reliability of a PDA/GPS to a Garmin but aren't
we supposed to always practice good pilotage no matter what's in the pannel? Also,
there's one advantage to the PDA that you didn't mention. You can get a moving
map for 1/10 the price. I have $250 total invested in my setup and I get
the use the PDA for other functions. Performance is only an issue if I zoom out
too far so I just keep the zoom level down to 10 miles or so and it's fine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13430#13430
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Air start on 912ULS |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: temco@telusplanet.net
Kurt
Thanks for the excellent points about the restarts and continue on to land.
Makes a lot of sense.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton Ab (Temporarily in Dubai)
------------------SNIP----------------
> I would suggest that any engine out testing be done at
> higher altitudes with a planned restart by 2000`AGL.
> Make sure to be over a landing place in case of no
> restart. The 2000` will give you more time to set up
> for landing and then try the restart. Plan to land
> engine out, then restart. Quit trying to restart
> whenever you need to pay attention to landing.
>
> Make sure you don`t have an engine failure again down
> low after you have overflown your runway. We lost one
> KitFox pilot in Mexico from that and I have heard of
> other pilots being caught the same way. They power
> away from their landing, then the engine quits.
>
> Instead, start the engine on descent and land anyway.
>
> There is a lot more that can be covered on this
> subject. Maybe that is why no one jumped right in.
> It can get very complex, but is necessary to know.
>
> Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>
>
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