---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/27/06: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:50 AM - Cruise vs. Vne speed (Michel Verheughe) 2. 02:06 AM - Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed (Graeme Toft) 3. 10:06 AM - Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed (jdmcbean) 4. 10:12 AM - Re: Ribs,Tail Feathers (Matt Teixeira) 5. 10:28 AM - Tax Deduction for BK tRe: Tax deduction (Harris, Robert) 6. 10:28 AM - Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed (Andrew Matthaey) 7. 10:28 AM - Re: Tax deduction (Ben Baltrusaitis) 8. 10:50 AM - Re: rudder pedal reinforcements (jdmcbean) 9. 11:39 AM - Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed (Rex) 10. 11:39 AM - Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed (ron schick) 11. 12:38 PM - Re: rudder pedal reinforcements (RAY Gignac) 12. 12:44 PM - What's the stock Tire Size for a Model V (Harris, Robert) 13. 12:54 PM - Re: Radiator ideas (Ron Liebmann) 14. 01:40 PM - Re: rudder pedal reinforcements (Jim Burke) 15. 02:03 PM - Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed (Michel Verheughe) 16. 02:43 PM - Re: rudder pedal reinforcements (Mr NELSON GOGUEN) 17. 02:44 PM - Re: What's the stock Tire Size for a Model V (Rueb, Duane) 18. 02:47 PM - Re: Ribs,Tail Feathers (James C. Hartford) 19. 03:12 PM - Re: rudder pedal reinforcements (jdmcbean) 20. 03:12 PM - Re: What's the stock Tire Size for a Model V (jdmcbean) 21. 03:15 PM - Re: WAS: Cruise vs. Vne speed - Glass eye? (Marco Menezes) 22. 03:32 PM - Rudder pedal reinforcements for the Model IV (jdmcbean) 23. 03:42 PM - 6.00 x 6 Tire recommendations (Harris, Robert) 24. 04:18 PM - EAA NW Arlington Fly-In (Joel Mapes) 25. 04:50 PM - Fiberglassing tips? (Don Pearsall) 26. 05:05 PM - Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed (jdmcbean) 27. 05:31 PM - Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed (dcaofak) 28. 05:42 PM - Re: Water Pressure Gauge (Rex Shaw) 29. 05:59 PM - Re: Tax Deduction for BK tRe: Tax deduction (Randy Daughenbaugh) 30. 06:46 PM - Re: Water Pressure Gauge (Bradley M Webb) 31. 06:46 PM - Re: Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed (Bradley M Webb) 32. 07:09 PM - Re: Fiberglassing tips? (Jeffrey Puls) 33. 07:17 PM - Re: Water Pressure Gauge (Ron Liebmann) 34. 07:33 PM - Re: Fiberglassing tips? (Lowell Fitt) 35. 07:37 PM - Vne speed (Dee Young) 36. 07:53 PM - Re: Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed (Lowell Fitt) 37. 08:46 PM - Re: Ribs,Tail Feathers (Bill Pleso) 38. 09:58 PM - Re: Ribs,Tail Feathers (ron schick) 39. 10:32 PM - Re: Fiberglassing tips? (Don Pearsall) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:26 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Hello guys, On the Jabiru Engines list, someone was comparing the cruise speed of different Kitfoxes and I was surprised to see someone with a model 2 saying that he cruises at 122 MPH. I have a model 3 and while I believe I can reach 122 MPH at WOT, my POH says that 100 MPH is Vne, and I respect that. Could it be that the model 2 has a higher Vne that the model 3? While on the subject of speed, I was wondering when you, guys, decide to slow down to Va, due to turbulence. I know the theory but ... how bad the turbulence must be for you to slow down? Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:10 AM PST US From: "Graeme Toft" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" Hi Michel, I have always backed off in turbulence because of the real possibility of exceeding VNE very quickly, in fact excessive speed can occur so fast that even in mild conditions I tend to find myself flying with my hand on the throttle. Here in Queensland most of our turbulence is created by heat with very little mechanical effect due to a relatively flattish terrain. At times the thermals are so active you can be in a descending attitude but ascending at over 1500 ft a minute, then as you come out of the thermal you will enter another that is descending equally as fast. I like to keep at least 20 knots between VNE and cruise as a safety margin in these conditions. The figures on the Model 2 in my humble opinion are pushing the limit. Cheers Graeme Toft Queensland Safety Solutions Ph: 07 49397011 Mob: 0411476527 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 6:46 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Hello guys, > On the Jabiru Engines list, someone was comparing the cruise speed of > different Kitfoxes and I was surprised to see someone with a model 2 > saying that he cruises at 122 MPH. > I have a model 3 and while I believe I can reach 122 MPH at WOT, my POH > says that 100 MPH is Vne, and I respect that. Could it be that the model 2 > has a higher Vne that the model 3? > > While on the subject of speed, I was wondering when you, guys, decide to > slow down to Va, due to turbulence. I know the theory but ... how bad the > turbulence must be for you to slow down? > > Cheers, > Michel > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:03 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Michel, The Vne is 100 mph on the 2 and the 3. I doubt what was being said is the truth.. There are not that many Fox's cruising around at 122 mph and the ones that are, have the flatter bottom wing not the high under camber. You can visit the about Kitfox page on our web http://sportplanellc.com/about_kitfox.htm regarding the Vne. As for Va... follow your comfort level if it feels like you should be slower then slow down... I think you'll find that above mild turbulence in the Kitfox usually does the trick and you'll slow down. If there is a lot of gusty type turbulence (gust loads) it is a good idea to be at Va. Fly Safe !! John McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 1:46 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Hello guys, On the Jabiru Engines list, someone was comparing the cruise speed of different Kitfoxes and I was surprised to see someone with a model 2 saying that he cruises at 122 MPH. I have a model 3 and while I believe I can reach 122 MPH at WOT, my POH says that 100 MPH is Vne, and I respect that. Could it be that the model 2 has a higher Vne that the model 3? While on the subject of speed, I was wondering when you, guys, decide to slow down to Va, due to turbulence. I know the theory but ... how bad the turbulence must be for you to slow down? Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ribs,Tail Feathers From: "Matt Teixeira" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Matt Teixeira" Colin I would appreciate it if you could send me a copy of your cad file as well. I would like to build up the tail feathers of my KIV and add bottom false ribs. I can handle the A2 sheet size plots so there would be no need to rearrange them. Thank you very much. Matt, Fresno, CA KIV-1200 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Colin Durey Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 7:55 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ribs,Tail Feathers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" Howie, I took over a KF4 kit last year and wanted to streamline the rudder/elevator assembly, but the templates/parts were not in the kit. I have since drawn a full set of rib templates using AutoCad, and am using these to do the job. They are not 100% perfect, but with a very small amount of effort, they do the job quite well. If you are interested, I can email you a copy of the templates, either in dwg. , or .pdf format, and you can print them out yourself. The sheet size is A2, but I could rearrange them and spread them across smaller pages, which you would need to gue together (some of the ribs are quite long. Let me know if you are interested. Regards Colin Durey Sydney - Australia +61-418-677073 (M) +61-2-945466162 (F) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:53 AM PST US Subject: Tax Deduction for BK tRE: Kitfox-List: Tax deduction From: "Harris, Robert" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" The deposits you lost can be written off as a non-business bad debt. It will be a short term capital loss subject to the capital loss limitations which will be reported on your 2006 Schedule D. Attach a statement to your 2006 tax return that explains that you made deposits with Skystar but they filed bankruptcy. Include the dates and amounts of your deposits and Skystar's Employer identification and bankruptcy information. If you get reimbursed in a later year then you will need to claim it as income in the year received Robert Model V N200KF San Diego Tax Accountant/TurboTax Programmer -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:23 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tax deduction --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Technically it is a loss and therefore should be deductable.. But I am no Tax accountant. Fly Safe !! John McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greaves Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Tax deduction --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Greaves" Anyone out there who has taken a big hit financially as a result of Skystar's Chapter 7 examined the tax implications? I got nailed since I didn't get my engine and a number of other parts. Does anyone know if one can deduct the financial loss somehow when filing this year with the IRS? Perhaps we have to wait until eternity for the bankruptcy crud to officially be over so see if we get a dime from Skyscrew before claiming it as some form of 'loss'.... Wade ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:53 AM PST US From: "Andrew Matthaey" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" I doubt that the Model 2 is cruising at 122...what's he got for a powerplant? My Model 3 with the 582 doesn't cruise over 80 at WOT, but normal cruise is 65-70. And what would Va be in our earlier models? Also, it's amazing how quickly the 'Fox picks up speed - in a power-off dive she'll hit 100 in about 3 seconds! Andrew >From: "Graeme Toft" >To: >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed >Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:02:04 +1000 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" > >Hi Michel, I have always backed off in turbulence because of the real >possibility of exceeding VNE very quickly, in fact excessive speed can >occur >so fast that even in mild conditions I tend to find myself flying with my >hand on the throttle. Here in Queensland most of our turbulence is created >by heat with very little mechanical effect due to a relatively flattish >terrain. At times the thermals are so active you can be in a descending >attitude but ascending at over 1500 ft a minute, then as you come out of >the >thermal you will enter another that is descending equally as fast. I like >to >keep at least 20 knots between VNE and cruise as a safety margin in these >conditions. The figures on the Model 2 in my humble opinion are pushing the >limit. > >Cheers >Graeme Toft >Queensland Safety Solutions >Ph: 07 49397011 >Mob: 0411476527 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Michel Verheughe" >To: >Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 6:46 PM >Subject: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > > Hello guys, > > On the Jabiru Engines list, someone was comparing the cruise speed of > > different Kitfoxes and I was surprised to see someone with a model 2 > > saying that he cruises at 122 MPH. > > I have a model 3 and while I believe I can reach 122 MPH at WOT, my POH > > says that 100 MPH is Vne, and I respect that. Could it be that the model >2 > > has a higher Vne that the model 3? > > > > While on the subject of speed, I was wondering when you, guys, decide to > > slow down to Va, due to turbulence. I know the theory but ... how bad >the > > turbulence must be for you to slow down? > > > > Cheers, > > Michel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:58 AM PST US From: "Ben Baltrusaitis" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tax deduction --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" Wade, You can take a deduction on line 22 of Schedule A as a "hobby loss". If you operate your flying as a business, then use Schedule C or the whatever Corporate form you file. You will be able to take the deduction for '05 if you have some type of proof that your purchase has no value. I'm sorry, Wade, that is a real bummer. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: jdmcbean To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:23 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tax deduction --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Technically it is a loss and therefore should be deductable.. But I am no Tax accountant. Fly Safe !! John McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greaves Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:59 PM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Tax deduction --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Greaves" Anyone out there who has taken a big hit financially as a result of Skystar's Chapter 7 examined the tax implications? I got nailed since I didn't get my engine and a number of other parts. Does anyone know if one can deduct the financial loss somehow when filing this year with the IRS? Perhaps we have to wait until eternity for the bankruptcy crud to officially be over so see if we get a dime from Skyscrew before claiming it as some form of 'loss'.... Wade ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:28 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" I have not tried them on the IV.. The tubing diameter is a different size so I doubt they would work. :( Fly Safe !! John McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RAY Gignac Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:21 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" John, will these work on the model IV? Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: jdmcbean To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > Try http://sportplanellc.com/Misc%20Products.htm Fly Safe !! John McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:18 PM To: Kitfox List Subject: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > While browsing Sportflight.com, our photo archive, I ran across some rudder pedal reinforcements by Nelson Goguen. Very nice and appears to doable without having to remove the pedal assemblies. Nelson, if you're out there can you tell us more about them please? Did you make them yourself or find them aftermarket? Deke ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:42 AM PST US From: Rex Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex Hi Michel, No the Vne has risen with some newer models of Kitfox, never fallen. Standard Model 2 Vne is also 100 MPH. If someone properly modified their Model 2 it's possible they might safely operate at a higher Vne, but I wouldn't know about that. Rex M2 - N740GP Colorado Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >Hello guys, >On the Jabiru Engines list, someone was comparing the cruise speed of different Kitfoxes and I was surprised to see someone with a model 2 saying that he cruises at 122 MPH. >I have a model 3 and while I believe I can reach 122 MPH at WOT, my POH says that 100 MPH is Vne, and I respect that. Could it be that the model 2 has a higher Vne that the model 3? > >While on the subject of speed, I was wondering when you, guys, decide to slow down to Va, due to turbulence. I know the theory but ... how bad the turbulence must be for you to slow down? > >Cheers, >Michel > > > > > > > > > -- Karla and Rex Hefferan Gypsy Bee Innkeepers 719-651-5198 or 719-651-9192 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:42 AM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" Hi michel. I have an early model Avid Flyer and one of the differances that keeps it's VNE slow is the .060 windscreen. At 100 MPH it is pushing in more than the .090 thick windscreen. With the .090 windscreen it could be somewhere near 135. Ron NB Ore >From: Michel Verheughe >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed >Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:46:12 +0100 (CET) > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >Hello guys, >On the Jabiru Engines list, someone was comparing the cruise speed of >different Kitfoxes and I was surprised to see someone with a model 2 saying >that he cruises at 122 MPH. >I have a model 3 and while I believe I can reach 122 MPH at WOT, my POH >says that 100 MPH is Vne, and I respect that. Could it be that the model 2 >has a higher Vne that the model 3? > >While on the subject of speed, I was wondering when you, guys, decide to >slow down to Va, due to turbulence. I know the theory but ... how bad the >turbulence must be for you to slow down? > >Cheers, >Michel > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:45 PM PST US From: "RAY Gignac" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" Thanks anyways, was trying to find a better way! Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: jdmcbean To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:07 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > I have not tried them on the IV.. The tubing diameter is a different size so I doubt they would work. :( Fly Safe !! John McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RAY Gignac Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:21 PM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" > John, will these work on the model IV? Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: jdmcbean> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" >> Try http://sportplanellc.com/Misc%20Products.htm 0Products.htm> Fly Safe !! John McBean www.sportplanellc.com> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com nics.com> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:18 PM To: Kitfox List Subject: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" >> While browsing Sportflight.com, our photo archive, I ran across some rudder pedal reinforcements by Nelson Goguen. Very nice and appears to doable without having to remove the pedal assemblies. Nelson, if you're out there can you tell us more about them please? Did you make them yourself or find them aftermarket? Deke ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:39 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: What's the stock Tire Size for a Model V From: "Harris, Robert" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" List, Could someone please tell me what the stock tire size is for a Model V Outback? (I just bought 6.00 x 6, 4 ply McCreary "Air Hawk") Robert Model V N200KF San Diego ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:26 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Radiator ideas --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" Hey Brad, Thanks much for the pictures. They are a big help. I have a Model 2 with the newer engine mount but I don't think that that will matter. Post the scoop pictures when ya can as I'm sure that we can use them too... Ron Mod 2/582 N55KF DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bradley M Webb" Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:12 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Radiator ideas > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" > > Finally, success! After trying a number of times, I finally got the pics > of > my radiator onto Sportflight.com. They're under "Add Ons/Modifications". > I've also uploaded a .jpg drawing into "Sketches" section showing my setup > theory. So far, it works pretty well, but I'm still taking care of > details, > like total sealing. I'm also considering increasing the lip size, from 1/4 > inch to 3/4 inch, in an effort to further increase the low-pressure > "bubble", and help on hot days. > > For reference, the previous owner had the airbrake under-fuse setup, and > said 200 degrees was common. My setup has never exceeded 188 degrees so > far, > and the 582 at 5800rpm gives me VNE (90mph). So I guess I've improved it. > > The rad is mounted using SS plates bolted to the firewall, and the rad > just > rests on the bottom lips. Some cowling seal rubber creates a chamber that > forces air through the rad downward. It then exits the bottom. The muffler > has a "cowl" with an air space, about 1/2 inch, and is held on with large > hose clamps. The idea here was to allow air flow to take the muff heat > away > from the rad. > > I'll try to get some pics of my cowl scoop and post them, but it's eerily > similar to some of the others posted there. Just some .025 curved > aluminum, > side plates, and a hinged flap with lip at the back. > > Bradley > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradley M > Webb > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:31 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Radiator ideas > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" > > This weekend I will try to post them up. Maybe Sportflight site. I'll let > you all know when and where. > > Bradley > KF2 N1836 > Middle GA > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 9:20 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Radiator ideas > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > > At 03:53 AM 2/24/2006, you wrote: >>I'm guessing what the article is really saying is that you must play >>around >>with Bernoulli. > > Bradley's got it right; and I'd love to see his installation. I have the > radiator below the fuselage with the Skystar "scoop" which is just a big > flat plate as far as drag is concerned. A real radiator scoop actually > provides thrust, as in the P-51, because the heat added increases the > velocity of the exhaust beyond that of the incoming air. I hadn't thought > there was room in the cowl for this type of installation. I'll have to > take > another look. > > > Guy Buchanan > K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:49 PM PST US From: Jim Burke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke John, I was thinking about buying and installing your reinfordements brackets, but I have a IV should I measure the hardware to make sure they fit? Is the IV beefed up over the 2 and 3? Just let me know what I should do. Jim N94JE IV-1200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdmcbean" Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:07 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > I have not tried them on the IV.. The tubing diameter is a different size > so > I doubt they would work. :( > > Fly Safe !! > John McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RAY Gignac > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:21 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" > > John, will these work on the model IV? > > Ray > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdmcbean > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:48 PM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > > > Try > http://sportplanellc.com/Misc%20Products.htm 0Products.htm> > > Fly Safe !! > John McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com nics.com> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:18 PM > To: Kitfox List > Subject: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > While browsing Sportflight.com, our photo archive, I ran across some > rudder > pedal reinforcements by Nelson Goguen. Very nice and appears to doable > without having to remove the pedal assemblies. Nelson, if you're out > there > can you tell us more about them please? Did you make them yourself or > find > them aftermarket? > Deke > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:35 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thank you, Graeme, Jim, Andrew, Ron and Rex, for your answers. For the cruise speed, on the Jabiru list, someone was asking for the performance of a Jabiru 2200 (that's your answer, Andrew) on a draggy plane similar to a Kitfox or Avid Flyer. Several answered and the person was puzzled that it may vary from 80 MPH (my cruise speed) to 122 MPH (one reported by a friend Kitfox 2 owner). I agree with you, it must be exaggerated or, the owner has a special model 2 and likes fast cruising! :-) For the Va speed, I understand that it is a matter of comfort and that, when in turbulent air, Vne is quickly exceeded as both vertical and indicated speed needles move fast in all directions. But, I remember that I once sailed into a French harbour to hear French yachtsmen who had just arrived before me, talking about sailing in a storm ... when I would have called it a moderate gale. It's all in the observator's eye. As a novice pilot, any turbulence is a bit scary and I was wondering what is real bad stuff that needs to stay at Va to avoid structural damages. Do I have to loose my denture, wig and glass eye, to call it significant turbulence? So far, the worse I have experienced is a short moment when I felt my feet lifted from the floor ... it must have been negative Gs. Is that "bad turbulence" or ... "moderate gale?" I also like Rod Machado's saying: "Turbulence are like waves at sea, only that you don't see them ... and that's what horror movies are made of!" :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:10 PM PST US From: "Mr NELSON GOGUEN" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON GOGUEN" Hi deke, I made them myself. I learned the trade of "pattern making" from my Dad, many years ago. When my Dad started his Pattern Shop, there were six foundries in our local town, now there are none. So there are not to many pattern makers around here anymore. There is one small aluminum foundry not to far away and that's the one I used to get these castings made. I took into account the aluminum shrinkage and also the diameter of the one inch tubing, with powder coating, They do fit very well and should do the job of reinforcing that weld joint. When someone, on this list, talked about cracking, at that point, I shared a problem with a lot of us. How to reinforce that joint without removing the rivets, that hold the stainless steel part of the firewall, that goes under the fuselage. Then I could get the rudder petal assembly out, and have reinforcements welded to them. In addition it sure messes up the powder coating. The reinforcements are held in place with structural adhesive and rivets on the vertical arms. I had a few sets cast at the same time and will sell them with cherry rivets, capscrews and postage for $50 for one set of rudder petals. If anyone is interested my address is 456 Main Street, Ashby, MA 01431 Nelson. ---- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > While browsing Sportflight.com, our photo archive, I ran across some > rudder pedal reinforcements by Nelson Goguen. Very nice and appears to > doable without having to remove the pedal assemblies. Nelson, if you're > out there can you tell us more about them please? Did you make them > yourself or find them aftermarket? > Deke > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:56 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What's the stock Tire Size for a Model V From: "Rueb, Duane" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane" Robert: I have a V Safari and it is fitted with 6.00 x 6 tires. This is the standard tire size for the plane, and would accommodate the wheel pants (which I do not have installed). Some people have used a larger tire size to make the plane more of a rough field user, but I think you have purchased the correct standard size. Duane Rueb -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris, Robert Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: What's the stock Tire Size for a Model V --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" List, Could someone please tell me what the stock tire size is for a Model V Outback? (I just bought 6.00 x 6, 4 ply McCreary "Air Hawk") Robert Model V N200KF San Diego ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:10 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ribs,Tail Feathers From: "James C. Hartford" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "James C. Hartford" Colin I would also like to get a copy of the files. You can send me dwg file, but if you would include the PDF in case I cant open the Dwg. I am working on a MII and would like to consider install the additional ribs before covering. Jim Hartford -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Colin Durey Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 7:55 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ribs,Tail Feathers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" Howie, I took over a KF4 kit last year and wanted to streamline the rudder/elevator assembly, but the templates/parts were not in the kit. I have since drawn a full set of rib templates using AutoCad, and am using these to do the job. They are not 100% perfect, but with a very small amount of effort, they do the job quite well. If you are interested, I can email you a copy of the templates, either in dwg. , or .pdf format, and you can print them out yourself. The sheet size is A2, but I could rearrange them and spread them across smaller pages, which you would need to gue together (some of the ribs are quite long. Let me know if you are interested. Regards Colin Durey Sydney - Australia +61-418-677073 (M) +61-2-945466162 (F) > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howie's Mail" > > > I am new to the net ...... > > I have a Classic 4 kitfox and I am looking for the patters or who to > contact for the tail feather ribs,,,,,Maybe someone can help... > > Howie > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:04 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Jim, The tubes are different sizes. The brackets will not work on a IV or earlier. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke John, I was thinking about buying and installing your reinfordements brackets, but I have a IV should I measure the hardware to make sure they fit? Is the IV beefed up over the 2 and 3? Just let me know what I should do. Jim N94JE IV-1200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdmcbean" Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:07 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > I have not tried them on the IV.. The tubing diameter is a different size > so > I doubt they would work. :( > > Fly Safe !! > John McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RAY Gignac > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:21 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" > > John, will these work on the model IV? > > Ray > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdmcbean > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:48 PM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > > > Try > http://sportplanellc.com/Misc%20Products.htm 0Products.htm> > > Fly Safe !! > John McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com nics.com> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:18 PM > To: Kitfox List > Subject: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > While browsing Sportflight.com, our photo archive, I ran across some > rudder > pedal reinforcements by Nelson Goguen. Very nice and appears to doable > without having to remove the pedal assemblies. Nelson, if you're out > there > can you tell us more about them please? Did you make them yourself or > find > them aftermarket? > Deke > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:04 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What's the stock Tire Size for a Model V --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Robert, That is the stock size as delivered. You can install larger tires if you do not intend on installing wheel pants. Fly Safe !! John McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harris, Robert Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: What's the stock Tire Size for a Model V --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" List, Could someone please tell me what the stock tire size is for a Model V Outback? (I just bought 6.00 x 6, 4 ply McCreary "Air Hawk") Robert Model V N200KF San Diego ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:49 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WAS: Cruise vs. Vne speed - Glass eye? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes We didn't know you had a glass eye Michel! ;-) Do not archive Michel Verheughe wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thank you, Graeme, Jim, Andrew, Ron and Rex, for your answers. For the cruise speed, on the Jabiru list, someone was asking for the performance of a Jabiru 2200 (that's your answer, Andrew) on a draggy plane similar to a Kitfox or Avid Flyer. Several answered and the person was puzzled that it may vary from 80 MPH (my cruise speed) to 122 MPH (one reported by a friend Kitfox 2 owner). I agree with you, it must be exaggerated or, the owner has a special model 2 and likes fast cruising! :-) For the Va speed, I understand that it is a matter of comfort and that, when in turbulent air, Vne is quickly exceeded as both vertical and indicated speed needles move fast in all directions. But, I remember that I once sailed into a French harbour to hear French yachtsmen who had just arrived before me, talking about sailing in a storm ... when I would have called it a moderate gale. It's all in the observator's eye. As a novice pilot, any turbulence is a bit scary and I was wondering what is real bad stuff that needs to stay at Va to avoid structural damages. Do I have to loose my denture, wig and glass eye, to call it significant turbulence? So far, the worse I have experienced is a short moment when I felt my feet lifted from the floor ... it must have been negative Gs. Is that "bad turbulence" or ... "moderate gale?" I also like Rod Machado's saying: "Turbulence are like waves at sea, only that you don't see them ... and that's what horror movies are made of!" :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:06 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: Kitfox-List: Rudder pedal reinforcements for the Model IV --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" If there were enough interest in the brackets for the IV they could be made. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Jim, The tubes are different sizes. The brackets will not work on a IV or earlier. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke John, I was thinking about buying and installing your reinfordements brackets, but I have a IV should I measure the hardware to make sure they fit? Is the IV beefed up over the 2 and 3? Just let me know what I should do. Jim N94JE IV-1200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdmcbean" Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:07 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > I have not tried them on the IV.. The tubing diameter is a different size > so > I doubt they would work. :( > > Fly Safe !! > John McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RAY Gignac > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:21 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" > > John, will these work on the model IV? > > Ray > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdmcbean > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:48 PM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > > > Try > http://sportplanellc.com/Misc%20Products.htm 0Products.htm> > > Fly Safe !! > John McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com nics.com> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:18 PM > To: Kitfox List > Subject: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal reinforcements > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > While browsing Sportflight.com, our photo archive, I ran across some > rudder > pedal reinforcements by Nelson Goguen. Very nice and appears to doable > without having to remove the pedal assemblies. Nelson, if you're out > there > can you tell us more about them please? Did you make them yourself or > find > them aftermarket? > Deke > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:36 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: 6.00 x 6 Tire recommendations From: "Harris, Robert" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Dear List, What make and model 6.00 x 6 tire do you recommend for paved runways with wheel pants? I would like something smaller and lighter than the 6.00 x 6, 4 ply McCreary "Air Hawk" I just bought. -Duane thanks for your earlier reply on the size. Robert N200KF San Diego ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:45 PM PST US From: "Joel Mapes" Subject: Kitfox-List: EAA NW Arlington Fly-In --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" The EAA NW Fly-In, in conjunction with the Washinton Seaplane Pilot's Association is holding it's first ever Splash-In July 7 - 9 at Lake Goodwin Resort www.lakegoodwinresort.com , located just 7 miles from Arlington airport. A limited number of camping sites and cabins are available so you can sleep with your plane and transportation to and from Arlington airport will be available. Moorage is limited, but locally based seaplane pilots are working to provide additional dock space for overflow. If you would like to get involved in making this first ever event take place, please contact me. Joel Mapes ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:53 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fiberglassing tips? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" I need to do some mods to my fiberglass motorcycle bodywork. I want to shape some streamlined bumps on the surface for various protrusions. I have some fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin I bought from Tap Plastics. My question is what kind of foam can I use to the shaping and then easily remove it, possibly by dissolving it out? Thanks Don Pearsall ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:35 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Michel, Describing turbulence is very difficult.. One pilot's light chop is another's moderate-to-severe. Perception varies with aircraft weight, type, and speed. A large, heavy, fast plane with high wing loading has inertia in its corner and will be less disturbed by a given bump than will a small, slow, lightly laden machine. According to the AIM, if occupants feel a slight strain against their seat belts and there is a slight, erratic change in aircraft altitude or attitude, it is "light" turbulence. But what might be light turbulence to the pilots of a 747 could be moderate to severe to the occupants of a four-place single, who might feel definite strains against their seat belts and have loose objects dislodged (moderate), or who may be forced violently against their belts and experience large, abrupt changes in aircraft altitude or attitude. Turbulence may also be reported as occasional, intermittent, or continuous, corresponding to less than 1/3, more than 1/3, or more than 2/3 of the time. Turbulence also comes in two reportable varieties: Normal turbulence is a dose of the shakes; chop is bumpy and rhythmic, akin to a speedboat skimming across a rough lake. UDDF is a corollary comment, standing for "strong up-and-down drafts." Make it quantitative if you must: "2000 FPM UDDF." The definition according to the Aeronautical Information Manual.. AIM 7-1-24 Light: Turbulence that momentarily causes slight, erratic changes in altitude and/or attitude (pitch, roll, yaw). Report as Light Turbulence or Turbulence that causes slight, rapid and somewhat rhythmic bumpiness without appreciable changes in altitude or attitude. Report as Light Chop. Occupants may feel a slight strain against seat belts or shoulder straps. Unsecured objects may be displaced slightly. Food service may be conducted and little or no difficulty is encountered in walking. Moderate: Turbulence that is similar to Light Turbulence but of greater intensity. Changes in altitude and/or attitude occur but the aircraft remains in positive control at all times. It usually causes variations in indicated airspeed. Report as Moderate Turbulence or Turbulence that is similar to Light Chop but of greater intensity. It causes rapid bumps or jolts without appreciable changes in aircraft altitude or attitude. Report as Moderate Chop. Occupants feel definite strains against seat belts or shoulder straps. Unsecured objects are dislodged. Food service and walking are difficult. (Walking not an option in a Fox) Severe: Turbulence that causes large, abrupt changes in altitude and/or attitude. It usually causes large variations in indicated airspeed. Aircraft may be momentarily out of control. Report as Severe Turbulence. Occupants are forced violently against seat belts or shoulder straps. Unsecured objects are tossed about. Food Service and walking are impossible. Extreme: Turbulence in which the aircraft is violently tossed about and is practically impossible to control. It may cause structural damage. Report as Extreme Turbulence. High level turbulence (normally above 15,000 feet ASL) not associated with cumuliform cloudiness, including thunderstorms, should be reported as CAT (clear air turbulence) preceded by the appropriate intensity, or light or moderate chop. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 3:02 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thank you, Graeme, Jim, Andrew, Ron and Rex, for your answers. For the cruise speed, on the Jabiru list, someone was asking for the performance of a Jabiru 2200 (that's your answer, Andrew) on a draggy plane similar to a Kitfox or Avid Flyer. Several answered and the person was puzzled that it may vary from 80 MPH (my cruise speed) to 122 MPH (one reported by a friend Kitfox 2 owner). I agree with you, it must be exaggerated or, the owner has a special model 2 and likes fast cruising! :-) For the Va speed, I understand that it is a matter of comfort and that, when in turbulent air, Vne is quickly exceeded as both vertical and indicated speed needles move fast in all directions. But, I remember that I once sailed into a French harbour to hear French yachtsmen who had just arrived before me, talking about sailing in a storm ... when I would have called it a moderate gale. It's all in the observator's eye. As a novice pilot, any turbulence is a bit scary and I was wondering what is real bad stuff that needs to stay at Va to avoid structural damages. Do I have to loose my denture, wig and glass eye, to call it significant turbulence? So far, the worse I have experienced is a short moment when I felt my feet lifted from the floor ... it must have been negative Gs. Is that "bad turbulence" or ... "moderate gale?" I also like Rod Machado's saying: "Turbulence are like waves at sea, only that you don't see them ... and that's what horror movies are made of!" :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:45 PM PST US From: "dcaofak" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcaofak" I believe there is a Vne issue with the model III and earlier Kitfoxes because the wings are not rib stitched. I have some memory (?) of there being something from the FAA limiting Vne to 100 mph if the fabric on the wings is only held with glue. John Stoner KFIII, 582 Alaska ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:35 PM PST US From: "Rex Shaw" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Water Pressure Gauge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Shaw" Hi ! Larry, yes I've always had a water pressure gauge with my 582. The pressure rises very quickly after starting before water temp starts to rise. It's a good indication that you don't have huge air pockets in the system and that the presure cap is right and you have no leaks. I think a lot of guys with early 582's for some reason had these various problems and a pressure gauge could certainly warn them. Yes I like my gauge and think it is worthwhile. Rex. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:19 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Tax Deduction for BK tRE: Kitfox-List: Tax deduction --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Robert, A turbo tax programmer! I am impressed. That is neat software. A great use of computers. I haven't been brave enough to try it on my taxes yet (I think they are too compex) but I have been using it for years for my folks taxes. Pretty neat! Thanks! Randy Do not archive . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris, Robert Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Tax Deduction for BK tRE: Kitfox-List: Tax deduction --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" The deposits you lost can be written off as a non-business bad debt. It will be a short term capital loss subject to the capital loss limitations which will be reported on your 2006 Schedule D. Attach a statement to your 2006 tax return that explains that you made deposits with Skystar but they filed bankruptcy. Include the dates and amounts of your deposits and Skystar's Employer identification and bankruptcy information. If you get reimbursed in a later year then you will need to claim it as income in the year received Robert Model V N200KF San Diego Tax Accountant/TurboTax Programmer -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:23 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tax deduction --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Technically it is a loss and therefore should be deductable.. But I am no Tax accountant. Fly Safe !! John McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greaves Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Tax deduction --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Greaves" Anyone out there who has taken a big hit financially as a result of Skystar's Chapter 7 examined the tax implications? I got nailed since I didn't get my engine and a number of other parts. Does anyone know if one can deduct the financial loss somehow when filing this year with the IRS? Perhaps we have to wait until eternity for the bankruptcy crud to officially be over so see if we get a dime from Skyscrew before claiming it as some form of 'loss'.... Wade ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:12 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Water Pressure Gauge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Rex, What pressure gauge are you using? Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex Shaw Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Water Pressure Gauge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Shaw" Hi ! Larry, yes I've always had a water pressure gauge with my 582. The pressure rises very quickly after starting before water temp starts to rise. It's a good indication that you don't have huge air pockets in the system and that the presure cap is right and you have no leaks. I think a lot of guys with early 582's for some reason had these various problems and a pressure gauge could certainly warn them. Yes I like my gauge and think it is worthwhile. Rex. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:12 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Skystar SB'd the Model 2 to 90mph, due to a couple flutter incidents. I think this was raised to 100 once the dual counter-weights are installed. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dcaofak Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:30 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcaofak" I believe there is a Vne issue with the model III and earlier Kitfoxes because the wings are not rib stitched. I have some memory (?) of there being something from the FAA limiting Vne to 100 mph if the fabric on the wings is only held with glue. John Stoner KFIII, 582 Alaska ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:23 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey Puls" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fiberglassing tips? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" Don, A/C Spruce and specilityy sells this two part expandable foam. When your layup is complete you can dig it out or rough sand it out. Buy the smallest quality, it goes a very long way. Some protrusions you can just do a layup over the protrusion and feather it in using a light filler. Jeff Classic IV. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Pearsall" Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Fiberglassing tips? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" > > > I need to do some mods to my fiberglass motorcycle bodywork. I want to > shape > some streamlined bumps on the surface for various protrusions. I have some > fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin I bought from Tap Plastics. My question > is > what kind of foam can I use to the shaping and then easily remove it, > possibly by dissolving it out? > > Thanks > Don Pearsall > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:44 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Water Pressure Gauge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" Rex, I would like to know the location of your water pressure senser. Any chance of a picture of it? Thanks, Ron N55KF DO NOT ARCHIVE Rex, What pressure gauge are you using? Bradley Hi ! Larry, yes I've always had a water pressure gauge with my 582. The pressure rises very quickly after starting before water temp starts to rise. It's a good indication that you don't have huge air pockets in the system and that the presure cap is right and you have no leaks. I think a lot of guys with early 582's for some reason had these various problems and a pressure gauge could certainly warn them. Yes I like my gauge and think it is worthwhile. Rex. > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:32 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fiberglassing tips? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Hi, Don, There are lots of ways to accomplish what you want to do. As to the foam question, I am not up on what ACS has available now, as my foam experience was in the 90's while I was building. I had one foam that was so soft that brushing on the "tack" coat of resin removed the top layer of foam - way too soft. I'd suggest a medium wt. foam if you decide to go that way. With the Epoxy any foam that you can shape will work. Scrap Styrofoam from a packing carton would work if it can be filed and sanded. Styrofoam will not work with Polyester resin as the resin will dissolve it. One thing I learned in the Lancair project - the Dremel tool is probably the most often used tool in the project. We use thin diamond wheels to cut the cured carbon fiber and glass lay-ups to shape and the round sanding drums are used frequently for fairing and shaping. This little puppy is absolutely indispensible with glass work IMHO. Another method if your faired mods are fairly small: On the Lancair, we needed a bubble on the baggage floor to clear the hydraulic pump that was mounted below it and I cut a hole in the floor, clearing the pump and made a small build up of Micro - microballoons and resin - around the hole sort of like an initial fairing to the bubble. My plan was to lay up two or three layers of glass / resin and and then turn the floor board upside down and have the layers of glass gravity sag into the shape I needed. Surprise! The resin stood up even in the up position and I was able to shape it as I wanted it and there it stayed. It came out really nice. It will be covered with carpet so a nice faired surface was not necessary. One trick we use all the time on the Lancair: Cut the glass to shape - as many pieces as you need for the lay-up making sure you have about an inch overlap. (A cookie cutter like, cutter works great, they are available at yardage shops.) Cut the glass on a bias so the long axis of the repair is not in line with the glass fibers. This helps with compound curves. Lay the first piece of cloth on a sheet of thin plastic - 2 mil or so and at least two inches larger than the glass cloth. Pour the resin on the glass from the mixing cup. Spread it around and when saturated, put on the second piece of glass. Add a little more resin if needed and then add the third piece of glass. When all the glass is saturated, put another piece of the 2 mil on top and using a plastic squeegee or roller - we find a squeetee works best - work all the resin that you can from the center to and slightly beyond the edge of the cloth. This way you have removed all excess resin - the excess should still be between the layers of 2 mil. A trick is to now cut the 2 mil around the glass with the cookie cutter, leaving the excess resin in the cut off part. Peel off one layer of the 2 mil and now you have a handle to move the lay-up to your motorcycle part. Lay it on the hole, resin side against the original, part and tamp it in place around the edge with a dryish brush. Remove the top layer of 2 mil and shape the bubble with the brush to get the shape you want and to work out bubbles that might be in the bond area. In Lancair talk this would be referred to as a "three BID" lay-up We do one BIDs, two BIDs up to 6 BIDs depending on the structural needs. I think BID stands for Bi Directional. meaning the cloth has identical fiber counts long ways and sideways. You might find there will be less finishing if you put the glass patch on the inside and work the bubble out through the hole. This way you won't have to fair in the bonding flange. On my project, I put the patch on the top side, then after curing, I trimmed the underside edge of the floorboard to a smooth junction and then put one layer of glass on the bottom sort of sandwiching the edge of the original panel. Scuff sand the original surface well and if you work from the inside, bevel the edge to give a closer fit. Vacuum off the sanding dust and clean with Acetone. Also before you apply the new glass brush on a thin tack layer of the resin in the bonding area otherwise the resin in the glass might be too scarce to get a good bond. If you work from the inside with the multiple layer, a single layer of cloth on the outside will be easier to fair out then multiple layers on the outside. Fairing is done with microballoons (also available from TAP) mixed into the resin to a peanut butter consistency. I like to use a single edge razor blade for the final fairing as it will fill low spots without adding a lot of new micro to sand off. A single edge razor blade can also be bent to accommodate curved surfaces - use gloves. Also using the foamless method it might ba possoble to put the fiberglass part on the motorcycle to see if everything fits. Other methods might be to use a variation of the foam and direct method by using thin transparent packing tape as a bond release. Put the tape around the hole on the bonding surface. Make the bubble fairing on the tape and after curing remove it. Trim it to shape, cleco it in place for trial fit and if everything is OK, bond it in place with structural adhesve or resin mixed with cotton flox. Then fair it in with the micro. If you use cleco's to hold it while curing, run the drill through the holes to remove most of the resin/flox or adhesive before inserting the cleco or you might render the clecos unusable. You can get them out but they won't spring well in future use. Small sheet metal screws work also. I know that sometimes explaining something like this just invites confusion. So if any part is not clear drop a note. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Pearsall" Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Fiberglassing tips? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" > > > I need to do some mods to my fiberglass motorcycle bodywork. I want to > shape > some streamlined bumps on the surface for various protrusions. I have some > fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin I bought from Tap Plastics. My question > is > what kind of foam can I use to the shaping and then easily remove it, > possibly by dissolving it out? > > Thanks > Don Pearsall > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:06 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Kitfox-List: Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" As I recall adding the counter weights was a result of an incident in the UK where the flapperons came off in flight. I had not heard of the rib stitching that John mentions. Both valid points but would like to know more if someone could add anything here???? Dee Don not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Bradley M Webb To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 7:43 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" > Skystar SB'd the Model 2 to 90mph, due to a couple flutter incidents. I think this was raised to 100 once the dual counter-weights are installed. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dcaofak Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:30 PM To: Kitfox-List@matronics.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcaofak" > I believe there is a Vne issue with the model III and earlier Kitfoxes because the wings are not rib stitched. I have some memory (?) of there being something from the FAA limiting Vne to 100 mph if the fabric on the wings is only held with glue. John Stoner KFIII, 582 Alaska ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:16 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Hi, John, It has been always my understanding that the VNE in the earlier Kitfoxes was at least in part a windsheld issue. I have a model IV and the VNE is 125 mph. I believe that the Speedster - thicker windshield with clipped wings has a VNE of 135 mph. Rib stitching was not part of my building instructions, but due to list influence, I did rib stitch mine. The one inch capstrips are pretty unique to our class of airplanes and the factory determined that with those wide capstrips rib stitching was not necessary. There have been tons of discussion on the list and opinions on ribstitching are many. In fact the subject of false ribs have come up on the list lately and brought up a question of my own. Has anyone rib stitched the false ribs - the upper ones most specifically. I did not. Also when replacing my windshield, I stuck with the thin lexan. It does move a bit getting close to VNE, but I have seen it so much that It really doesn't bother me. I must have had 500 hours on the original and changed it out because I finally got tired of looking at a big scratch I put on it while building. Also the thinner Lexan is a bit more flexible - obviously - and moves around the top corner a bit easier. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "dcaofak" Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:30 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise vs. Vne speed > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcaofak" > > I believe there is a Vne issue with the model III and earlier Kitfoxes > because the wings are not rib stitched. > I have some memory (?) of there being something from the FAA limiting Vne > to 100 mph if the fabric on the wings is only held with glue. > John Stoner > KFIII, 582 > Alaska > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:11 PM PST US From: "Bill Pleso" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ribs,Tail Feathers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" I am looking for the patters or who to contact for the tail feather ribs Howie, I have a classic IV and purchased the ribs for the vert & horizontal stab. I have not installed them yet, so it wouldn't be much trouble to trace out a copy of the ribs for you. There are also a few other parts that you will need to make (fiberglass top cap for the vert stab and a convex and concave part fot the vert stab also. I could e-mail you a couple of pictures to show you what I mean and if your interested, I could snail mail you the patterns for the ribs (made of 3mm ply). I've done this for a couple of other people already. I haven't made a dime off of this, I just like to help out if I can. Let me know if you're interested. Be patient if it takes me a couple of days to get back with you. I have 5 foster kids that consume most of my time (which is why the plane will probably never get finished). Anyone out there interested in a Classic IV? I'm the 2nd owner. It's on the landing gear, and a lot of the controls are already built. I have a lot of extras also (even a Mosler VW converted engine. I would really love to build the plane, but I have to put these kids first. Some of them come with stories that would break your heart. Someday I WILL build a plane, but this just doesn't seem to be the time. Anyone interested in the tailfeather ribs can contact me and I'll make you up some templates. Bill ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:16 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ribs,Tail Feathers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" Bill it is unfortunate that you cannot find the time to finish your plane. Perhaps the kids are what it's really all about. I hope you are getting rides in some plane at least. Where are you located? Ron NB Oregon >From: "Bill Pleso" >To: >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ribs,Tail Feathers >Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:44:10 -0500 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" > > I would really love to build the plane, but I have to put these kids >first. Some of >them come with stories that would break your heart. Someday I WILL build a >plane, but this just doesn't seem to be the time. Anyone interested in the >tailfeather ribs can contact me and I'll make you up some templates. >Bill > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:08 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fiberglassing tips? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Wow, Thanks much Lowell and Jeff. Lowell, you provided a textbook worth of tips! I appreciate all the time you spent explaining the process. I will try to do the bubbles using your foamless method. Thanks again! Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 7:32 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fiberglassing tips? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Hi, Don, There are lots of ways to accomplish what you want to do. As to the foam question, I am not up on what ACS has available now, as my foam experience was in the 90's while I was building. I had one foam that was so soft that brushing on the "tack" coat of resin removed the top layer of foam - way too soft. I'd suggest a medium wt. foam if you decide to go that way. With the Epoxy any foam that you can shape will work. Scrap Styrofoam from a packing carton would work if it can be filed and sanded. Styrofoam will not work with Polyester resin as the resin will dissolve it. One thing I learned in the Lancair project - the Dremel tool is probably the most often used tool in the project. We use thin diamond wheels to cut the cured carbon fiber and glass lay-ups to shape and the round sanding drums are used frequently for fairing and shaping. This little puppy is absolutely indispensible with glass work IMHO. Another method if your faired mods are fairly small: On the Lancair, we needed a bubble on the baggage floor to clear the hydraulic pump that was mounted below it and I cut a hole in the floor, clearing the pump and made a small build up of Micro - microballoons and resin - around the hole sort of like an initial fairing to the bubble. My plan was to lay up two or three layers of glass / resin and and then turn the floor board upside down and have the layers of glass gravity sag into the shape I needed. Surprise! The resin stood up even in the up position and I was able to shape it as I wanted it and there it stayed. It came out really nice. It will be covered with carpet so a nice faired surface was not necessary. One trick we use all the time on the Lancair: Cut the glass to shape - as many pieces as you need for the lay-up making sure you have about an inch overlap. (A cookie cutter like, cutter works great, they are available at yardage shops.) Cut the glass on a bias so the long axis of the repair is not in line with the glass fibers. This helps with compound curves. Lay the first piece of cloth on a sheet of thin plastic - 2 mil or so and at least two inches larger than the glass cloth. Pour the resin on the glass from the mixing cup. Spread it around and when saturated, put on the second piece of glass. Add a little more resin if needed and then add the third piece of glass. When all the glass is saturated, put another piece of the 2 mil on top and using a plastic squeegee or roller - we find a squeetee works best - work all the resin that you can from the center to and slightly beyond the edge of the cloth. This way you have removed all excess resin - the excess should still be between the layers of 2 mil. A trick is to now cut the 2 mil around the glass with the cookie cutter, leaving the excess resin in the cut off part. Peel off one layer of the 2 mil and now you have a handle to move the lay-up to your motorcycle part. Lay it on the hole, resin side against the original, part and tamp it in place around the edge with a dryish brush. Remove the top layer of 2 mil and shape the bubble with the brush to get the shape you want and to work out bubbles that might be in the bond area. In Lancair talk this would be referred to as a "three BID" lay-up We do one BIDs, two BIDs up to 6 BIDs depending on the structural needs. I think BID stands for Bi Directional. meaning the cloth has identical fiber counts long ways and sideways. You might find there will be less finishing if you put the glass patch on the inside and work the bubble out through the hole. This way you won't have to fair in the bonding flange. On my project, I put the patch on the top side, then after curing, I trimmed the underside edge of the floorboard to a smooth junction and then put one layer of glass on the bottom sort of sandwiching the edge of the original panel. Scuff sand the original surface well and if you work from the inside, bevel the edge to give a closer fit. Vacuum off the sanding dust and clean with Acetone. Also before you apply the new glass brush on a thin tack layer of the resin in the bonding area otherwise the resin in the glass might be too scarce to get a good bond. If you work from the inside with the multiple layer, a single layer of cloth on the outside will be easier to fair out then multiple layers on the outside. Fairing is done with microballoons (also available from TAP) mixed into the resin to a peanut butter consistency. I like to use a single edge razor blade for the final fairing as it will fill low spots without adding a lot of new micro to sand off. A single edge razor blade can also be bent to accommodate curved surfaces - use gloves. Also using the foamless method it might ba possoble to put the fiberglass part on the motorcycle to see if everything fits. Other methods might be to use a variation of the foam and direct method by using thin transparent packing tape as a bond release. Put the tape around the hole on the bonding surface. Make the bubble fairing on the tape and after curing remove it. Trim it to shape, cleco it in place for trial fit and if everything is OK, bond it in place with structural adhesve or resin mixed with cotton flox. Then fair it in with the micro. If you use cleco's to hold it while curing, run the drill through the holes to remove most of the resin/flox or adhesive before inserting the cleco or you might render the clecos unusable. You can get them out but they won't spring well in future use. Small sheet metal screws work also. I know that sometimes explaining something like this just invites confusion. So if any part is not clear drop a note. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Pearsall" Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Fiberglassing tips? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" > > > I need to do some mods to my fiberglass motorcycle bodywork. I want to > shape > some streamlined bumps on the surface for various protrusions. I have some > fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin I bought from Tap Plastics. My question > is > what kind of foam can I use to the shaping and then easily remove it, > possibly by dissolving it out? > > Thanks > Don Pearsall > > >