---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/01/06: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:48 AM - Tailplane Rib Template files (batch 1) posted (Colin Durey) 2. 04:50 AM - Re: Ribs,Tail Feathers (DC91840@aol.com) 3. 05:52 AM - 912S Rough running problems (Kerry Skyring) 4. 06:22 AM - Re: Orange peeling (Lynn Matteson) 5. 06:58 AM - Re: Orange peeling (JeffFowler@aol.com) 6. 07:07 AM - SV: Orange peeling (Michel Verheughe) 7. 07:16 AM - Re: Orange peeling (Marco Menezes) 8. 07:53 AM - Orange peeling (ron schick) 9. 08:17 AM - Re: Orange peeling (Richard Rabbers) 10. 08:19 AM - Re: 912S Rough running problems (jdmcbean) 11. 09:11 AM - Orange peeling - Imron (Jose M. Toro) 12. 09:18 AM - Re: Header Tank (Bill Bowen) 13. 09:46 AM - Re: Orange peeling (Lynn Matteson) 14. 09:55 AM - Re: rudder pedal help for type 5 (alnanarthur) 15. 09:56 AM - calculating Va (alnanarthur) 16. 11:03 AM - Re: rudder pedal help for type 5 (Rueb, Duane) 17. 12:12 PM - Re: calculating Va (Michel Verheughe) 18. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Orange peeling (Marco Menezes) 19. 12:57 PM - Re: Orange peeling (Marco Menezes) 20. 01:40 PM - Re: Orange peeling (Lynn Matteson) 21. 01:59 PM - Re: Water Pressure Gauge (Rex) 22. 02:03 PM - Re: 912S Rough running problems (Kerry Skyring) 23. 02:05 PM - Re: Orange peeling (Richard Rabbers) 24. 02:28 PM - Re: Orange peeling - Imron-NOT (ron schick) 25. 03:24 PM - Brake and Rudder Pedals (Rex Shaw) 26. 03:24 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 02/18/06 (jboatm16@netzero.net) 27. 03:30 PM - Re: calculating Va (kurt schrader) 28. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 02/18/06 (Don Pearsall) 29. 06:14 PM - Re: calculating Va (Bradley M Webb) 30. 06:55 PM - Re: Orange peeling (Glenn Horne) 31. 06:55 PM - Re: Idle adjust on 582 (Tc9008@aol.com) 32. 06:57 PM - Re: Orange peeling (Glenn Horne) 33. 07:00 PM - Re: Orange peeling - Imron (Glenn Horne) 34. 08:49 PM - Re: Kitfox model IV rubber reinforcements (Mr NELSON GOGUEN) 35. 09:45 PM - Re: 912S Rough running problems (James Shumaker) 36. 10:54 PM - Flaperon Horns (Michael Gibbs) 37. 11:32 PM - Official Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (Matt Dralle) 38. 11:38 PM - Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:07 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailplane Rib Template files (batch 1) posted From: "Colin Durey" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" Hi folks, For those who are interested, I just uploaded the rib template drawings for the Vertical Fin and the Rudder to Sportsflight. They are listed under "Building Process". The files are in Autocad .dwg format, and the sheets are A1 in size. I will try to convert to .pdf over the next few days, and will post these to the same location, but can't give any guarantees on this. As I get a chance during the next week, I'll do the same with the horizontal stabiliser and elevator ribs. I will also post a few photos of what I have done with them, and how I constructed the trailing edge of the V/Fin and the leading edge of the Rudder. Any constructive criticism, along with effusive praise, would be welcome. Regards Colin Durey Sydney +61-418-677073 (M) +61-2-945466162 (F) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:17 AM PST US From: DC91840@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ribs,Tail Feathers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: DC91840@aol.com In a message dated 2/28/2006 11:15:52 AM Central Standard Time, bill77@cox.net writes: bill77@cox.net Bill: I am interested in your Classic IV. Contact me at dc91840@aol.com Thanks Don C. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:01 AM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: Kitfox-List: 912S Rough running problems --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Turning to the list for some help. Have just had a call from the airfield where I am told our beautiful S5 912S has had air under its wings for the first time. Just low runs along the runway. I am tied to my desk so can't be there. I will try and explain the problem as it was explained to me (in German) and see if anyone has some ideas that might quickly lead us to the problem. Engine seems to run fine until the auxiliary Facet electric fuel pump is turned on when it appears to become over rich and run rough. But it doesn't happen immediately, just by the end of a high speed run along the runway. Fuel system is according to plans apart from the Facet pump near the header tank. Thoughts are.. 1. the return fuel line to the header tank may be restrictive . i.e. not large enough outlet 2. Just too much fuel pressure. Any thoughts on what we should look for? Kerry Kitfox builders helper And yes I am excited about the approaching first flight and will post details when it happens. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Marco- Is it really Stits you are using or Poly-Fiber? If it says Stits on the can it may be old stuff. Are you sure about the Xylene for reducing Poly-Fiber Enamel? I know that the P-F Enamel reducer that I have says "contains Xylene", but maybe they put a little orange peel eliminator in the P-F Enamel Reducer, and don't say so. I might be a sucker for the "brand name" stuff, but I did not have a problem with any of my painting...over fabric with Poly-Tone, or over fiberglass, metal, etc., with P-F Enamel, using the P-F suggested products. And did you first use EP-420 Epoxy Primer to prime the fiberglass? If you want to call an expert, try Jim Miller at 1-877-877-3334...he's my guru for all things paintable, and a Poly-Fiber dealer.... www.poly-fiber.com/ Lynn On Tuesday, February 28, 2006, at 05:35 PM, Marco Menezes wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes > > Hey List: > > I'm having a terrible time spray painting Stitts enamel on > fiberglass cargo pod. Keep getting that "orange peel" effect. Thinned > 5 to 1 with reducer as suggested on can, same problem. Is temperature > critical? Equipment? I'm tired of sanding and pod is amost a quart > heavier now. Any advice appreciated. > > > Marco Menezes > Model 2 582 N99KX ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:51 AM PST US From: JeffFowler@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: JeffFowler@aol.com In a message dated 3/1/2006 2:01:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, msm_9949@yahoo.com writes: Thanks Lowell and Ron. I'll mess with those variables and see what happens. I'm not using Aerothane on the pod. Poly Fiber Enamel (single stage?) was recommended for fiberglass. Reduces with Xylene. If I can't get smooth finish with next coat, i'll try wet sanding to a gloss or if really fed up, take pod and what's left of quart to local autobody shop. Too cold to paint outside and wife justifiably complaining about me stinkin up the basement Hello Marco I'm new to the list and, while not having worked with the brand of enamel you are using, I noticed some clues you put in this reply that might be a small part of the problem. Not enough ventilation where you are painting will mean that overspray will get back on what you are painting and cause "some" orange peel. Try to paint in an area that is between 70 and 84 degrees. Spraying technique has a lot to do with this problem too. What type of spraying setup do you have? There will always be a tiney amount of orange peel effect. Look at the surface of a new car closely in the sun. Just a few thoughts. I don't own a full scale airplane. I joined this board because I got some plans for a quarter scale Kitfox IV and the backround comments will help me detail it out when I build it. Till Next Time, Jeff ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:33 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Marco Menezes [msm_9949@yahoo.com] > Keep getting that "orange peel" effect. Marco, I have seen a yachtsman obtaining a very nice hull gloss - without using a spray gun - with this product: http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/product_guide/finishes_undercoats/US_perfection.asp It's polyurethane and you apply it with a roller and a brush. I haven't tried it myself, though. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:18 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes Lynn: It's a new can of Poly-Fiber enamel, thinned with new PF enamel reducer. Did not use epoxy primer first. My reading suggested it wan't really necessary on fiberglass that was first sanded to give some "tooth." Put another coat on this am with so-so result. I'm beginning to think it's my spray technique that's the problem. Marco Lynn Matteson wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Marco- Is it really Stits you are using or Poly-Fiber? If it says Stits on the can it may be old stuff. Are you sure about the Xylene for reducing Poly-Fiber Enamel? I know that the P-F Enamel reducer that I have says "contains Xylene", but maybe they put a little orange peel eliminator in the P-F Enamel Reducer, and don't say so. I might be a sucker for the "brand name" stuff, but I did not have a problem with any of my painting...over fabric with Poly-Tone, or over fiberglass, metal, etc., with P-F Enamel, using the P-F suggested products. And did you first use EP-420 Epoxy Primer to prime the fiberglass? If you want to call an expert, try Jim Miller at 1-877-877-3334...he's my guru for all things paintable, and a Poly-Fiber dealer.... www.poly-fiber.com/ Lynn On Tuesday, February 28, 2006, at 05:35 PM, Marco Menezes wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes > > Hey List: > > I'm having a terrible time spray painting Stitts enamel on > fiberglass cargo pod. Keep getting that "orange peel" effect. Thinned > 5 to 1 with reducer as suggested on can, same problem. Is temperature > critical? Equipment? I'm tired of sanding and pod is amost a quart > heavier now. Any advice appreciated. > > > Marco Menezes > Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:03 AM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" I sold dupont automotive paint to body shops and the public for three years. Many amatuers had a hard time following directions or using the right tools/ technique. Some used laquer primer with fast laquer thinner from the hardware store. This usually dried to cobwebs before it hit the car. One solution was to hold the gun really close to the work (or use slower thinner). Others thought they could take a half hour to put one coat on a car. I can put a coat on a small car in about 5 minutes which allows the paint to flow into the starting point instead of overlapping on dry. Anywhere the paint dries before the next amount hits will not flow and become orange peel. I have painted bare fiberglass with single stage enamels and the main problem I have are pinholes that I had missed in repairs. It sounds as though you have plenty of paint on to wet sand so try it and see. Ron NB Ore. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:19 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Orange peeling From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" Marco, I look forward to sharing flight with you some day since Im located just a bit south of you in Michigan. I considered contacting you offline but decided I may as well share my thoughts with the list. I've got a Model 1 - in restoration. I'm not actively painting but have done a lot of spraying in the past. List members are contributing very good info I dont want to add clutter to the list. My message is that practice makes perfect. The line between too much paint and too little paint is the challenge as I see it. Spray tip and adjustment of spray patterns, etc. best done on a board - get happy before you start painting your part. Monitoring the wet edge, keeping paint thickness consistent, not too much, not too little. After proper solvents, appropriate thinning, priming and surface prep comes technique. Practice with some cheap paint on the sidelines until you get comfortable. Keep in mind that paint types act differently so adjustments will need to be made, mostly related to drying times (due to solvents, temperatures, etc.) -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18744#18744 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:31 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 912S Rough running problems --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Kerry, Turn off the pump.. It is not a required item on the 912S. If the mechanical pump failed then I may try it.. only if needed.. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kerry Skyring Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 6:50 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: 912S Rough running problems --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Turning to the list for some help. Have just had a call from the airfield where I am told our beautiful S5 912S has had air under its wings for the first time. Just low runs along the runway. I am tied to my desk so can't be there. I will try and explain the problem as it was explained to me (in German) and see if anyone has some ideas that might quickly lead us to the problem. Engine seems to run fine until the auxiliary Facet electric fuel pump is turned on when it appears to become over rich and run rough. But it doesn't happen immediately, just by the end of a high speed run along the runway. Fuel system is according to plans apart from the Facet pump near the header tank. Thoughts are.. 1. the return fuel line to the header tank may be restrictive . i.e. not large enough outlet 2. Just too much fuel pressure. Any thoughts on what we should look for? Kerry Kitfox builders helper And yes I am excited about the approaching first flight and will post details when it happens. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:07 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling - Imron --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Ron: Do you recommend to use Dupont Imron to paint polyfiber? Jose --- ron schick wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" > > > I sold dupont automotive paint to body shops and the > public for three years. > Jose M. Toro, P.E. Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200 "A slow flight in the Caribbean..." ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:34 AM PST US From: "Bill Bowen" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Header Tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Bowen" Does anyone know where to get the rotomold platic header tank that mounts up and behind seats for a Model 2? This tank replaces the round aluminum cylinder tank under the instrument panel. William D. Bowen Chairman and CEO Premier Hotel Corporation 2839 Paces Ferry Rd., Suite 560 Atlanta, Georgia 30339 Office 678.842.0633 Cell 229.402.2121 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Marco- Maybe it's the lack of the epoxy primer that's causing the problem. Be sure to give Jim Miller a call....he'll know if anyone does, regarding Poly-Fiber products. The epoxy primer that P-F uses takes a long time to cure...7 days at 70 degrees F....but that's what they recommend, and I followed it to a "T" with good results. I can't say that the orange peel is a result of NOT using the right primer, but the proper foundation is best to build on. By the way, where are you in Michigan...upper or lower? Answer to my email address if you'd like. Lynn Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 On Wednesday, March 1, 2006, at 10:15 AM, Marco Menezes wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes > > Lynn: > > It's a new can of Poly-Fiber enamel, thinned with new PF enamel > reducer. Did not use epoxy primer first. My reading suggested it wan't > really necessary on fiberglass that was first sanded to give some > "tooth." Put another coat on this am with so-so result. I'm beginning > to think it's my spray technique that's the problem. > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:52 AM PST US From: alnanarthur Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal help for type 5 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur Duane, I attached a 1/2 inch thick , one inch wide wood block across the bottom of my rudder pedals. It works well for me. Allan Arthur Kitfox 5, N40AA Rotax 912s, Warpdrive 3 blade Byron Airport (C83) Hanger C8 On Feb 28, 2006, at 8:02 AM, Rueb, Duane wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane" > > > I am curious to know whether anyone else finds the rudder pedals > on the type V problematic in so far as being able to use the rudder > function without inadvertently using brake. I find that it is very > difficult to do so. Mine are adjusted to tilt top back as far as they > can, but this still leaves them such that the foot wants to contact > the > top and apply brake even when this is not desired. Only by > concentrating to place my foot on the very bottom part of the > pedal, can > brake be avoided. > I am considering adding a step to the bottom of the pedal so the > foot can 'find' the rudder only function more easily. > Or is there a different pedal that someone has made to solve > this problem? Or can the pedal be removed and modified to solve this? > > Duane Rueb > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:01 AM PST US From: alnanarthur Subject: Kitfox-List: calculating Va --> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur Michel, Here is how I arrived at Va for my series 5. Just above stall (45 mph) the aircraft is sustaining one g in level flight. Lift goes up as V squared, therefore at 90 mph at increased angle of attack due to turbulence the aircraft can be subjected to 4 g's. The stress limit for standard catagory aircraft is 3.8 g. My Va "rule of thumb" is twice stall. At 135 mph, turbulence could subject the aircraft to 9 g's. That could be serious. I believe that the series 5 was designed for 6 g ultimate. Also as the aircraft is more lightly loaded. Va should be reduced. Allan Arthur Kitfox 5, N40AA Rotax 912s, Warpdrive 3 blade Byron Airport (C83) Hanger C8 > > For the Va speed, I understand that it is a matter of comfort and > that, > when in turbulent air, Vne is quickly exceeded as both vertical and > indicated speed needles move fast in all directions. But, I remember > that I once sailed into a French harbour to hear French yachtsmen who > had just arrived before me, talking about sailing in a storm ... > when I > would have called it a moderate gale. It's all in the observator's > eye. > As a novice pilot, any turbulence is a bit scary and I was wondering > what is real bad stuff that needs to stay at Va to avoid structural > damages. Do I have to loose my denture, wig and glass eye, to call it > significant turbulence? So far, the worse I have experienced is a > short > moment when I felt my feet lifted from the floor ... it must have been > negative Gs. Is that "bad turbulence" or ... "moderate gale?" > > I also like Rod Machado's saying: "Turbulence are like waves at sea, > only that you don't see them ... and that's what horror movies are > made > of!" :-) > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:22 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal help for type 5 From: "Rueb, Duane" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane" Dear Allan: Thank you very much for the info. I was guessing that 1/2 inch height might be about right, and with a 1 inch width it seems that it should. I may use a bent up sheet metal design, but a block of wood is also a good solution, so thanks again. Duane, K-5 Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of alnanarthur Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder pedal help for type 5 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur Duane, I attached a 1/2 inch thick , one inch wide wood block across the bottom of my rudder pedals. It works well for me. Allan Arthur Kitfox 5, N40AA Rotax 912s, Warpdrive 3 blade Byron Airport (C83) Hanger C8 On Feb 28, 2006, at 8:02 AM, Rueb, Duane wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane" > > > I am curious to know whether anyone else finds the rudder pedals > on the type V problematic in so far as being able to use the rudder > function without inadvertently using brake. I find that it is very > difficult to do so. Mine are adjusted to tilt top back as far as they > can, but this still leaves them such that the foot wants to contact > the > top and apply brake even when this is not desired. Only by > concentrating to place my foot on the very bottom part of the > pedal, can > brake be avoided. > I am considering adding a step to the bottom of the pedal so the > foot can 'find' the rudder only function more easily. > Or is there a different pedal that someone has made to solve > this problem? Or can the pedal be removed and modified to solve this? > > Duane Rueb > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:14 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: calculating Va --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thanks Jim and Allan, Yes Jim, turbulence is much depending on the mass and speed of the aircraft. I usually explain to passengers that my Kitfox is like a small dinghy on the waves. While it may move more up and down, it is less of a structural strain than a larger vessel or aircraft. Allan, my Va is from Denney (I have an old model 3) marked to be 70 MPH, which is, indeed, the speed at which I will stall when Gs exceed what is structurally safe to fly. But ... I don't have a G-meter and while Jim gives the description of different turbulence reporting, I was actually wondering how it feels to have turbulence that needed to slow down to Va. Since I understand this is more of a subjective notion, I'd ask then: How often, any of you has been in turbulence that they estimated to be structurally dangerous in a way that it requires Va? I know, it's very subjective but ... some of you may have a G-meter and recorded how it moved in severe turbulence. BTW, at sea, I never use a wind speed indicator because, when sailing, there are only three wind speed: Not enough, enough and too much! And it's all very subjective, indeed! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:44 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Orange peeling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes Thanks Richard and everyone else who responded to my post. Last coat went on Ok so i'll try to get my finish with some wet sanding. Say Richard, did you purchase N120DD from guy in Greenville? Richard Rabbers wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" Marco, I look forward to sharing flight with you some day since Im located just a bit south of you in Michigan. I considered contacting you offline but decided I may as well share my thoughts with the list. I've got a Model 1 - in restoration. I'm not actively painting but have done a lot of spraying in the past. List members are contributing very good info I dont want to add clutter to the list. My message is that practice makes perfect. The line between too much paint and too little paint is the challenge as I see it. Spray tip and adjustment of spray patterns, etc. best done on a board - get happy before you start painting your part. Monitoring the wet edge, keeping paint thickness consistent, not too much, not too little. After proper solvents, appropriate thinning, priming and surface prep comes technique. Practice with some cheap paint on the sidelines until you get comfortable. Keep in mind that paint types act differently so adjustments will need to be made, mostly related to drying times (due to solvents, temperatures, etc.) -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18744#18744 Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:11 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes Hi Lynn. If my problem was from lack of primer there's nothing i'm gonna do about that now! I'm about 6nm WSW of Evart (9C8), right under the Hersey MOA. Have to duck the Warthogs now and again. They always seem to be flying lower than they're supposed to. do not archive Lynn Matteson wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Marco- Maybe it's the lack of the epoxy primer that's causing the problem. Be sure to give Jim Miller a call....he'll know if anyone does, regarding Poly-Fiber products. The epoxy primer that P-F uses takes a long time to cure...7 days at 70 degrees F....but that's what they recommend, and I followed it to a "T" with good results. I can't say that the orange peel is a result of NOT using the right primer, but the proper foundation is best to build on. By the way, where are you in Michigan...upper or lower? Answer to my email address if you'd like. Lynn Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 On Wednesday, March 1, 2006, at 10:15 AM, Marco Menezes wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes > > Lynn: > > It's a new can of Poly-Fiber enamel, thinned with new PF enamel > reducer. Did not use epoxy primer first. My reading suggested it wan't > really necessary on fiberglass that was first sanded to give some > "tooth." Put another coat on this am with so-so result. I'm beginning > to think it's my spray technique that's the problem. > Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Ok, Marco...got you located, about 130-150 miles from me, as "the Kitfox flies" to butcher an old saying. Heck, I could probably visit you and Deke, and maybe Richard, all on one fill-up this summer...yee-haaaaa! oops, sorry... Lynn do not archive On Wednesday, March 1, 2006, at 03:56 PM, Marco Menezes wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes > > Hi Lynn. > > If my problem was from lack of primer there's nothing i'm gonna do > about that now! I'm about 6nm WSW of Evart (9C8), right under the > Hersey MOA. Have to duck the Warthogs now and again. They always seem > to be flying lower than they're supposed to. > > do not archive > > Lynn Matteson wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Marco- > Maybe it's the lack of the epoxy primer that's causing the problem. Be > sure to give Jim Miller a call....he'll know if anyone does, regarding > Poly-Fiber products. The epoxy primer that P-F uses takes a long time > to cure...7 days at 70 degrees F....but that's what they recommend, and > I followed it to a "T" with good results. I can't say that the orange > peel is a result of NOT using the right primer, but the proper > foundation is best to build on. > By the way, where are you in Michigan...upper or lower? Answer to my > email address if you'd like. > > Lynn > Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 > > On Wednesday, March 1, 2006, at 10:15 AM, Marco Menezes wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes >> >> Lynn: >> >> It's a new can of Poly-Fiber enamel, thinned with new PF enamel >> reducer. Did not use epoxy primer first. My reading suggested it wan't >> really necessary on fiberglass that was first sanded to give some >> "tooth." Put another coat on this am with so-so result. I'm beginning >> to think it's my spray technique that's the problem. >> > > > Marco Menezes > Model 2 582 N99KX > > --------------------------------- > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:23 PM PST US From: Rex Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Water Pressure Gauge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex Hey Rex, Maybe you can do this until you get the technology. Search for the product online and provide a link: http://store.summitracing.com/largeimage.asp?part=VDO-310105 This is a Oil temp gage, I could not find a water pressure gage. :-( Anyway, it's another way to provide a photo ( if it would work.) Rex Colorado Rex Shaw wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Shaw" > >Hi ! Ron and Larry, > Sorry no picture as I haven't acomplished those skills yet or got a digital camera. However my gauge is VDO about 1 1/2" in dia. It reads to 15 lbs and usually runs around 10PSI. The pressure line is taken out of the firewall end of the head. It is a Bluehead motor and on this one at least there is a suitable threaded location each end of the head. The front end goes to a breather line that goes to just below the filler cap mounted up on the firewall. This is to let any air bubbles out of the water and stop them lodging in nooks in the block. I hope this is of assistance. > Rex. > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:22 PM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 912S Rough running problems --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Thanks John. Was my first thought too but I am not there with the plane. We have some pretty experienced Rotax people around the airfield so will keep you posted on what happens. kerry. >Kerry, > Turn off the pump.. It is not a required item on the 912S. If the >mechanical pump failed then I may try it.. only if needed.. > >Fly Safe !! >John & Debra McBean >www.sportplanellc.com >"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kerry Skyring >Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 6:50 AM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: 912S Rough running problems > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" > > >Turning to the list for some help. Have just had a call from the airfield >where I am told our beautiful S5 912S has had air under its wings for the >first time. Just low runs along the runway. I am tied to my desk so can't >be >there. > >I will try and explain the problem as it was explained to me (in German) >and >see if anyone has some ideas that might quickly lead us to the problem. > >Engine seems to run fine until the auxiliary Facet electric fuel pump is >turned on when it appears to become over rich and run rough. But it doesn't >happen immediately, just by the end of a high speed run along the runway. >Fuel system is according to plans apart from the Facet pump near the header >tank. Thoughts are.. > >1. the return fuel line to the header tank may be restrictive . i.e. not >large enough outlet >2. Just too much fuel pressure. > >Any thoughts on what we should look for? > >Kerry >Kitfox builders helper >And yes I am excited about the approaching first flight and will post >details when it happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:55 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Orange peeling From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" Hello Marco, I bought my Model 1 in Tampa Florida in the fall of 2004 and trailered it north between Hurricanes. The last storm that passed by Tampa area did some damage to the hanger it was in - about a week after I made my trip north. The plane in Greenville (sold on Ebay) looked pretty slick. I tried to connect with the seller - then the buyer, trying to get a copy of a Model 1 builders manual (still trying to find one) I believe the buyer is from New Hampshire. regards, Do not archive -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18840#18840 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:16 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling - Imron-NOT --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" Jose goodness no! Imron is expensive and very toxic. It could possibly make the afore mentioned "lutefisk" out of a Polyfibre base coat. I generally shoot Dupont Centari or their generic Nasson if I want a single stage enamel. Inexpensive and easy to cut and rub orange peel or my trademark run. Metallic colors must be done right as they break through the translucent paint if wet sanded. Remember I sold paint not sprayed it proffesionally. Unfortunately I have learned a lot of this the hard way. Still after painting many metallics I will take a glossy run over a dull orange peel any day. Now you guys have probably Jinxed me as I will be painting my wings soon and will surely get a run. Ron NB Ore >From: "Jose M. Toro" >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling - Imron >Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:08:59 -0800 (PST) > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > >Ron: > >Do you recommend to use Dupont Imron to paint >polyfiber? > >Jose > >--- ron schick wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" > > > > > > I sold dupont automotive paint to body shops and the > > public for three years. > > > >Jose M. Toro, P.E. >Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200 >"A slow flight in the Caribbean..." > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:43 PM PST US From: "Rex Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Brake and Rudder Pedals --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Shaw" I am curious to know whether anyone else finds the rudder pedals on the type V problematic in so far as being able to use the rudder function without inadvertently using brake. I find that it is very difficult to do so. Mine are adjusted to tilt top back as far as they can, but this still leaves them such that the foot wants to contact the top and apply brake even when this is not desired. Only by concentrating to place my foot on the very bottom part of the pedal, can brake be avoided. I am considering adding a step to the bottom of the pedal so the foot can 'find' the rudder only function more easily. Or is there a different pedal that someone has made to solve this problem? Or can the pedal be removed and modified to solve this? Duane Rueb Hi ! Duane, Yes I get the problem in my MKIV. I am over 6 ft tall with long size 10 feet. What I did is get 5/8" heater hose and slit it open down one side. You then need to cut out little notches where tubing leaves the horizontal rudder pedal. This moves your foot a little further away from the brakes. I used cable ties pulled real tight to hold the rubber in place however they did tend to move so I finished up using a bit of tie wire at the back of the pedal to hold the cable ties so they can't move out and off the end. I am thinking though that contact cement might be worthwhile. This certainly feels better and does help but is not a complete answer in all honesty. I think I need to also shorten the brake cylinder rod ends. Rather than mess with the existing ones. I think I will make new ones slightly shorter so the brake pedal leans a little forward. By making new ones I can the revert to the originals if required for any reason at any time. The rubber will stay though as I like it much better and it stops wearing the powder coating off. Rex. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:43 PM PST US From: "jboatm16@netzero.net" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 02/18/06 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jboatm16@netzero.net" Hey my coputer has been down but this is the last time i received any kitfox-list info?somthing up? thanks KFD Hey my coputer has been down but this is the last time i received any kitfox-list info?somthing up? thanksKFD ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:32 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: calculating Va --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Michel, We are lucky to have such a well built airplane to play with. The airplanes I fly every day are good only to 2.5 G`s normally, or only 2 G`s with flaps down. We quite regularily have to reduce to VA in turbulence. It is more a subjective value to do it, as you said. When it scares you, slow down. I am convinced that turbulence is brought on by having to write something while flying, drinking coffee, or the opposite, flying with a full bladder. Weather has nothing to do with it. ;-) In the Fox, I slow down when it scares me. If the turbulence is due to thermals, I get an extra 10 knots at the same power setting, so I have to decide if I need to go fast, or write something, etc. If I want comfort, I climb out of the bumps, or land. If the bumps are as hard as I land, I slow down too. If it is a G`loading bump, I worry a lot more than if it is a wing rocking bump. Straightening the wings is more a nav problem than a structural problem. And that is my simple plan for VA. The calculations for VA that you were already given are correct. It is based upon stall speed. But you must remember to reduce VA when you are light. You can pull more G`s at the same speed if you weigh less. Kurt S. S-5 --- Michel Verheughe wrote: > Thanks Jim and Allan, > ............... > I was actually wondering how it feels to have > turbulence that needed to slow down to Va. > > Since I understand this is more of a subjective > notion, I'd ask then: > How often, any of you has been in turbulence that > they estimated to be > structurally dangerous in a way that it requires Va? > I know, it's very > subjective but ... some of you may have a G-meter > and recorded how it moved in severe turbulence. > .............. > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:33 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Cc: Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 02/18/06 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" KFD, there have been LOTS of messages since 2/18. Something on your end is causing you to not get the list email. I am sending this to the list and to your email address. So if you do not get two duplicate messages, something is wrong with your email delivery. Contact me or Darrel for help solving the problem. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jboatm16@netzero.net Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 3:21 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 02/18/06 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jboatm16@netzero.net" Hey my coputer has been down but this is the last time i received any kitfox-list info?somthing up? thanks KFD Hey my coputer has been down but this is the last time i received any kitfox-list info?somthing up? thanksKFD ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:12 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: calculating Va --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Va, aka maneuvering speed, is not really subjective at all. By definition, it is that speed at which full, abrupt control deflection will not exceed the design load factor, (not the ultimate load factor). If a turbulent bump causes the load factor to exceed the limit as if you applied full, ABRUPT control input, you're toast. Below Va, you don't have enough control authority to exceed those limits. Va must be determined by the engineer who designed the plane. And frankly, no one wants to find out what it really is. The Lockheed Electra (P-3 Orion) was the first aircraft to be tested to that limit (failure), but the effort to do so nearly bankrupt the company. I would imagine most production aircraft are tested to failure, in an effort to validate the design, more than increase safety. As builders, I guess we determine the design load factor limits, but I doubt many of us are qualified to make that determination. You just take it on faith that the engineer who drew all that tubing you covered with fabric knew what he was doing. Generally, the yellow arc is for smooth air, and below in the green is for the rest of the time. How smooth is smooth? Up to you, buddy! As long as you don't exceed the ultimate load factor, you're ok. But one good, hard bump in the yellow is Russian Roulette. When and where that bump is is anybody's guess. Likewise, if you exceed Vne, it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to shed the wings at that moment. But you've exceeded the design limit (not the ultimate limit). I don't see how we are able to calculate it at all. Without testing in a lab environment, all you can really do is go with Skystar's numbers and hope it all works out. It doesn't really matter if you're doing 40 or 400. Straight and level is 1G. At 40, there's not enough control authority available to stress the airframe. But at 400, there's plenty enough to pretzel the fuselage and fully articulate the wings. Load factor, again. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 6:30 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: calculating Va --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Michel, We are lucky to have such a well built airplane to play with. The airplanes I fly every day are good only to 2.5 G`s normally, or only 2 G`s with flaps down. We quite regularily have to reduce to VA in turbulence. It is more a subjective value to do it, as you said. When it scares you, slow down. I am convinced that turbulence is brought on by having to write something while flying, drinking coffee, or the opposite, flying with a full bladder. Weather has nothing to do with it. ;-) In the Fox, I slow down when it scares me. If the turbulence is due to thermals, I get an extra 10 knots at the same power setting, so I have to decide if I need to go fast, or write something, etc. If I want comfort, I climb out of the bumps, or land. If the bumps are as hard as I land, I slow down too. If it is a G`loading bump, I worry a lot more than if it is a wing rocking bump. Straightening the wings is more a nav problem than a structural problem. And that is my simple plan for VA. The calculations for VA that you were already given are correct. It is based upon stall speed. But you must remember to reduce VA when you are light. You can pull more G`s at the same speed if you weigh less. Kurt S. S-5 --- Michel Verheughe wrote: > Thanks Jim and Allan, > ............... > I was actually wondering how it feels to have > turbulence that needed to slow down to Va. > > Since I understand this is more of a subjective > notion, I'd ask then: > How often, any of you has been in turbulence that > they estimated to be > structurally dangerous in a way that it requires Va? > I know, it's very > subjective but ... some of you may have a G-meter > and recorded how it moved in severe turbulence. > .............. > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:01 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" Lynn, What type of gun are you using? Is it a gravity feed or a siphon? If gravity fed set your presser about 18/25 lb at the gun. If it's a siphon, set the pressure 50/55 lb at the gun. Also make sure the paint is thin correctly. I used aero-thane on my fox and got a smooth job. Glenn Horne Model II 582 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marco Menezes" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes > > Lynn: > > It's a new can of Poly-Fiber enamel, thinned with new PF enamel reducer. > Did not use epoxy primer first. My reading suggested it wan't really > necessary on fiberglass that was first sanded to give some "tooth." Put > another coat on this am with so-so result. I'm beginning to think it's my > spray technique that's the problem. > > Marco > > Lynn Matteson wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Marco- > Is it really Stits you are using or Poly-Fiber? If it says Stits on the > can it may be old stuff. Are you sure about the Xylene for reducing > Poly-Fiber Enamel? I know that the P-F Enamel reducer that I have says > "contains Xylene", but maybe they put a little orange peel eliminator > in the P-F Enamel Reducer, and don't say so. I might be a sucker for > the "brand name" stuff, but I did not have a problem with any of my > painting...over fabric with Poly-Tone, or over fiberglass, metal, etc., > with P-F Enamel, using the P-F suggested products. And did you first > use EP-420 Epoxy Primer to prime the fiberglass? If you want to call an > expert, try Jim Miller at 1-877-877-3334...he's my guru for all things > paintable, and a Poly-Fiber dealer.... www.poly-fiber.com/ > > Lynn > > On Tuesday, February 28, 2006, at 05:35 PM, Marco Menezes wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes >> >> Hey List: >> >> I'm having a terrible time spray painting Stitts enamel on >> fiberglass cargo pod. Keep getting that "orange peel" effect. Thinned >> 5 to 1 with reducer as suggested on can, same problem. Is temperature >> critical? Equipment? I'm tired of sanding and pod is amost a quart >> heavier now. Any advice appreciated. >> >> >> Marco Menezes >> Model 2 582 N99KX > > > --------------------------------- > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:22 PM PST US From: Tc9008@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Idle adjust on 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tc9008@aol.com Thanks for the help. Got it down to 1980, much better Travis ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:04 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" It is not for a fabric aircraft. Do not use it. Glenn Horne Model II 582 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:06 AM Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >> From: Marco Menezes [msm_9949@yahoo.com] >> Keep getting that "orange peel" effect. > > Marco, I have seen a yachtsman obtaining a very nice hull gloss - without > using a spray gun - with this product: > > http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/product_guide/finishes_undercoats/US_perfection.asp > > It's polyurethane and you apply it with a roller and a brush. I haven't > tried it myself, though. > > Cheers, > Michel > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:49 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling - Imron --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" NO. The poly fiber manual tells you that. It will crack over a period of time and peel off. Glenn Horne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jose M. Toro" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 12:08 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Orange peeling - Imron > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > Ron: > > Do you recommend to use Dupont Imron to paint > polyfiber? > > Jose > > --- ron schick wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" >> >> >> I sold dupont automotive paint to body shops and the >> public for three years. >> > > Jose M. Toro, P.E. > Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200 > "A slow flight in the Caribbean..." > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:07 PM PST US From: "Mr NELSON GOGUEN" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox model IV rubber reinforcements --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON GOGUEN" Hi Mike, All the parts (cherry rivets and cap screws) are provided with the kit. Structural adhesive you provide. Instillation process is simple.rough up the tubes where the adhesive goes, apply adhesive and screw the cap screws in and tighten. When adhesive cures, rivet to the vertical arms. Pictures of installed supports can be seen on www.sportflight.com Click on shared photos then on improvements. John McBean carries them, check www.sportplanellc.com on the misc products page. Right now he only has a size that fits models 5 and 6. Fly safe, Nelson ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Ford To: mino2@verizon.net Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:04 PM Subject: Kitfox model IV rubber reinforcements Hi, I am wondering, can you provide more information as to what the kit includes and what other parts will be needed (such as structural adhesive). Can you explain the process of instillation? Do you have any pictures? It sounds quite promising. My rudder petal arms currently do not have the reinforcements, and I am trying to decide if I should baby them of install the reinforcements. Thanks! Mike __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:51 PM PST US From: James Shumaker Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 912S Rough running problems --> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker Kerry I have a 912 and had a flooding problem. An automotive pressure regulator after the pump was effective. But I also had a float level problem. The high level in the bowl lowers the pressure that holds the stoppers in place. Adjusting the float level may be in order. Jim Shumaker Kerry Skyring wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Thanks John. Was my first thought too but I am not there with the plane. We have some pretty experienced Rotax people around the airfield so will keep you posted on what happens. kerry. >Kerry, > Turn off the pump.. It is not a required item on the 912S. If the >mechanical pump failed then I may try it.. only if needed.. > >Fly Safe !! >John & Debra McBean >www.sportplanellc.com >"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kerry Skyring >Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 6:50 AM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: 912S Rough running problems > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" > > >Turning to the list for some help. Have just had a call from the airfield >where I am told our beautiful S5 912S has had air under its wings for the >first time. Just low runs along the runway. I am tied to my desk so can't >be >there. > >I will try and explain the problem as it was explained to me (in German) >and >see if anyone has some ideas that might quickly lead us to the problem. > >Engine seems to run fine until the auxiliary Facet electric fuel pump is >turned on when it appears to become over rich and run rough. But it doesn't >happen immediately, just by the end of a high speed run along the runway. >Fuel system is according to plans apart from the Facet pump near the header >tank. Thoughts are.. > >1. the return fuel line to the header tank may be restrictive . i.e. not >large enough outlet >2. Just too much fuel pressure. > >Any thoughts on what we should look for? > >Kerry >Kitfox builders helper >And yes I am excited about the approaching first flight and will post >details when it happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:07 PM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperon Horns --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs Hi all, I find myself in need of a set of inboard flaperon end pieces and the control horn that attaches to them (sorry, I don't know the "official" names for these parts). These would be the pieces that enter the sides of the turtledeck and connect to the flaperon pushrods that descend on each side of the baggage to the flaperon mixer assembly. If anyone has a set they are willing to part with, please contact me off-list. Thanks! Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:12 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Kitfox-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Kitfox-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kitfox-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kitfox-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kitfox-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Kitfox-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kitfox ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:30 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Kitfox-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.]