Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:21 AM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (JOHN LARSEN)
2. 08:47 AM - Re: Avid/Kitfox (Michael Gibbs)
3. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (Alan & Linda Daniels)
4. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (JOHN LARSEN)
5. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (JOHN LARSEN)
6. 11:08 AM - Re: calculating Va (What me worry?) (Roger Standley)
7. 12:03 PM - Re: Baggage compartment (Guy Buchanan)
8. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (Alan & Linda Daniels)
9. 12:39 PM - Tire and Wheel upgrade? (RAY Gignac)
10. 06:46 PM - Re: Baggage compartment (John King)
11. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (Lowell Fitt)
12. 08:30 PM - Re: calculating Va (What me worry?) (Lowell Fitt)
13. 09:43 PM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (Alan & Linda Daniels)
14. 10:02 PM - (What me worry?) (Alan & Linda Daniels)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JOHN LARSEN" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
Could not help but comment on this tread.
Back in the primordial swirls of time1981 as I recall, Dean Wilson was in
the hospital recovering from a minor accident when Dan Denny (Dan and Dean
were married to cousins), came to see Dean with the idea of designing an
ultra light. Dean was already established as a designer, so soon Dean came
up with the Avid Flyer. The prototype AF99 was a tri-- gear as Dan was not
tail wheel efficient at the time. The plane was too heavy to qualify as an
ultra light, but created great interest in the experimental world. Dean won
Best New Design at OSH in 1982.
With Dean the designer and Dan the promoter the little plane took off and
was soon selling well. Soon problems developed as Dean was very having
trouble with Dan's business practices, so the two decided to part company.
As Dean tells it they sat down in a restaurant and drew up a agreement
wherein Dan agreed not to compete by building a plane like the Avid Flyer.
The problem was the agreement was not drawn up by a lawyer so when Dan
started making Kitfox, Dean took him to court only to have the judge throw
out the agreement.
I first flew the KF series 1 with Dan in1983. It was an Avid with cosmetic
changes.
I ultimately worked for both men and it is a interesting story, too big for
this list.
> [Original Message]
> From: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/4/2006 12:15:10 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels
<aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>
> This gets heated, and depends on who you talk to. My understanding is
> Dan Denning and Dean Wilson started together and made the Kitfox. Dean
> did much of the design work. They ended up parting ways and both making
> much the same airplane. The major difference came when the new owner
> took the design of the Kitfix Model 5 to the next level, which was
> extensively engineered to meet the proposed new certification. I do not
> think Avid made the engineering commitment, but I am not sure. I have
> talked with both men, and found them both to be fascinating. I think
> they needed each other to make a good plane and start the company, but
> both are very independent. Dan Denning is the can do visionary promoter
> and Dean was the designer/ engineer that could make it work. So which
> started first, Kitfox did, which was much Dean's design, who started
> Avid after striking out on his own. I was not there so this is just my
> understanding from being on the edges. I am sure there are others that
> can tell how they saw it, but the how and why of the start and split is
> probably only know to them, and each has his own version. Both men have
> gone on the make some really cool stuff. Thunder Mustang and now a
> really neat ATV and other stuff for Dan and several new airplane designs
> for Dean. IMHO these two men really started the Kit airplane movement as
> we know it, and for that I thank them.
>
> Sid Hausding wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Ahem, excuse me Jeff,
> >
> > The Kitfox is derived directly from the Avid design...............just
for your info.
> >
> > Sid
> > Speedwing N204S
> >
> > -----------------------------------do not archive :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >JeffFowler@aol.com wrote:
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: JeffFowler@aol.com
> >
> >Thanks Ron & Louis for the help on the cargo pod info. I didn't know the
> >Avid Flyer used the same unit. It does make sense though because of
their
> >lineage.
> >
> >Jeff Fowler
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"Why can't we all just get along?"
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>My understanding is Dan Denning and Dean Wilson started together and
>made the Kitfox.
Nope. The airplane that Dan Denney (not "Denning") and Dean Wilson
designed together was called the "Avid Flyer." It was equipped with
a nosewheel and a Cessna-style cowling that closely resembled
later-model Avids. Some time after the two split, Denney
experimented with a radial engine and designed the now-famous round
cowling. The engine didn't work out but the round look was a big hit.
Even by the early 1990s when I bought my Kitfox Model IV, the two
designs had diverged noticeably and Avid was offering an amphibian
(the Catalina?) and the much larger Magnum, in addition to the
original Avid Flyer.
The impression I got when shopping for my kit (and this is just my
personal opinion!) was that while Avid had spread their energy over
the development of several product lines that appealed to buyers with
different needs, Denney/SkyStar had spent their time refining the
original design.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Thanks John. You were much closer to the situation than I was. I got my
information after the fact and I am sure from different points of view.
I think the original point was that both the Avid and the Kitfox started
out as the same plane, whatever it was called.
I don't know if people on the list really appreciate how fortunate we
are to have John Larsen on this list. Its hard to tell who really knows
what they are talking about on an e-mail list, but John has been there
and done it when it comes to this type of airplane. He has been there
from the beginning and I hope stays involved for a long time. I hope we
can prod him into giving us the benefit of more of his experiences.
IMHO there is no story John can write that is too big for this list.
Alan
JOHN LARSEN wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JOHN LARSEN" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
>
>Could not help but comment on this tread.
>Back in the primordial swirls of time1981 as I recall, Dean Wilson was in
>the hospital recovering from a minor accident when Dan Denny (Dan and Dean
>were married to cousins), came to see Dean with the idea of designing an
>ultra light. Dean was already established as a designer, so soon Dean came
>up with the Avid Flyer. The prototype AF99 was a tri-- gear as Dan was not
>tail wheel efficient at the time. The plane was too heavy to qualify as an
>ultra light, but created great interest in the experimental world. Dean won
>Best New Design at OSH in 1982.
>With Dean the designer and Dan the promoter the little plane took off and
>was soon selling well. Soon problems developed as Dean was very having
>trouble with Dan's business practices, so the two decided to part company.
>As Dean tells it they sat down in a restaurant and drew up a agreement
>wherein Dan agreed not to compete by building a plane like the Avid Flyer.
>The problem was the agreement was not drawn up by a lawyer so when Dan
>started making Kitfox, Dean took him to court only to have the judge throw
>out the agreement.
>I first flew the KF series 1 with Dan in1983. It was an Avid with cosmetic
>changes.
>I ultimately worked for both men and it is a interesting story, too big for
>this list.
>
>
>
>
>>[
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Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JOHN LARSEN" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
Awww Shucks, you make me feel embarrassed. Thanks for the kudo.
> [Original Message]
> From: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/4/2006 9:56:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels
<aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>
> Thanks John. You were much closer to the situation than I was. I got my
> information after the fact and I am sure from different points of view.
> I think the original point was that both the Avid and the Kitfox started
> out as the same plane, whatever it was called.
>
> I don't know if people on the list really appreciate how fortunate we
> are to have John Larsen on this list. Its hard to tell who really knows
> what they are talking about on an e-mail list, but John has been there
> and done it when it comes to this type of airplane. He has been there
> from the beginning and I hope stays involved for a long time. I hope we
> can prod him into giving us the benefit of more of his experiences.
> IMHO there is no story John can write that is too big for this list.
>
> Alan
>
> JOHN LARSEN wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JOHN LARSEN" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
> >
> >Could not help but comment on this tread.
> >Back in the primordial swirls of time1981 as I recall, Dean Wilson was in
> >the hospital recovering from a minor accident when Dan Denny (Dan and
Dean
> >were married to cousins), came to see Dean with the idea of designing an
> >ultra light. Dean was already established as a designer, so soon Dean
came
> >up with the Avid Flyer. The prototype AF99 was a tri-- gear as Dan was
not
> >tail wheel efficient at the time. The plane was too heavy to qualify as
an
> >ultra light, but created great interest in the experimental world. Dean
won
> >Best New Design at OSH in 1982.
> >With Dean the designer and Dan the promoter the little plane took off and
> >was soon selling well. Soon problems developed as Dean was very having
> >trouble with Dan's business practices, so the two decided to part
company.
> >As Dean tells it they sat down in a restaurant and drew up a agreement
> >wherein Dan agreed not to compete by building a plane like the Avid
Flyer.
> >The problem was the agreement was not drawn up by a lawyer so when Dan
> >started making Kitfox, Dean took him to court only to have the judge
throw
> >out the agreement.
> >I first flew the KF series 1 with Dan in1983. It was an Avid with
cosmetic
> >changes.
> >I ultimately worked for both men and it is a interesting story, too big
for
> >this list.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>[
> >>
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Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JOHN LARSEN" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
Hi;
Yes you are right. Dean would work with a design until he found interest in
new one, and then the first design would be off his radar screen. I
designed the MK IV Avid as the C Model, its predecessor, needed an upgrade
and Dean was off on the Explorer project. He was obviously better qualified
but had lost interest.
> [Original Message]
> From: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/4/2006 9:55:17 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> >My understanding is Dan Denning and Dean Wilson started together and
> >made the Kitfox.
>
> Nope. The airplane that Dan Denney (not "Denning") and Dean Wilson
> designed together was called the "Avid Flyer." It was equipped with
> a nosewheel and a Cessna-style cowling that closely resembled
> later-model Avids. Some time after the two split, Denney
> experimented with a radial engine and designed the now-famous round
> cowling. The engine didn't work out but the round look was a big hit.
>
> Even by the early 1990s when I bought my Kitfox Model IV, the two
> designs had diverged noticeably and Avid was offering an amphibian
> (the Catalina?) and the much larger Magnum, in addition to the
> original Avid Flyer.
>
> The impression I got when shopping for my kit (and this is just my
> personal opinion!) was that while Avid had spread their energy over
> the development of several product lines that appealed to buyers with
> different needs, Denney/SkyStar had spent their time refining the
> original design.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: calculating Va (What me worry?) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
Lowell,
Our guest speaker, a well known aircraft designer, at our EAA Chapter meeting this
past week stated that 25% of the Lancair IV fleet has crashed with some people
being killed. He works with the NTSB and stated the reason being that they
were designed for 3000 lb gross and are routinely being flown at 4000 lb gross.
What did you say your friend is building? What is he anticipating for his
empty and gross weights?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Lowell Fitt<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: calculating Va (What me worry?)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>>
Interesting stuff. I do slow down when the turbulence makes the flying
uncomfortable, but for some reason, I'm not particularly concerned about the
wings falling off or anything else for that matter. Guys and Gals have
been flying these things for years and I would guess well over a million
hours total (maybe 2 million) with all levels of builder skills and piloting
skills and no inflight structural failures - Wow to that.
Lancairs have broken up in flight, but flying through thunder storms would
probably break up a Kirfox too. When I was new to my Model IV, turbulence
was quite uncomfortable and I'm sure the old adrenaline level reflected
that, but after flying a bit (I still prefer still air) I no longer fear for
my life if it gets bouncy and try to stay on the ground when it looks
dicey..
I get a certain kick out of some of the talk on the Lancair list - guys with
an engineering background that insist the $50 electrical connctors are
necessary because they are used on the Space Shuttle. I just ordered some
$0.50 connectors that were recommended by an avionics shop - who's to say.
I think the Kitfox is a fine airplane, well designed and engineered. I
guess some day one might fall apart in the air and then we will really have
something to talk about. It's fun to learn how others think and it always
gives some food for thought, but...
This is just one more opinion.
Lowell
Message 7
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| Subject: | Baggage compartment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 08:24 PM 3/3/2006, you wrote:
>As
>for now, I keep it limited to 135 lbs and that loaded
>forward because the elevator tube could rub.
Well, if you're uncomfortable sitting in your cargo area, I would think you
would be very uncomfortable with 135 pounds in it. (3.8g * 135 lbs = 513
lbs.) Unless you weigh more than 513 lbs... ;-)
>You are right about wing strut ends too. Mine had to
>have the upgraded bolts to use 1550# gross.
Which bolts did you upgrade? The outboard end? To what did you upgrade?
>I was flying
>at full power, left hand on the stick upside down
>(thumb down and elbow up) spun around in my seat to
>face backwards, and standing on the peddles.
You were flying an A4 sitting BACKWARDS? You ARE good! (Not sure I'd try it
in a 152.)
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Sorry about the typo, I knew better.
Alan
Michael Gibbs wrote:
>-
>
>Nope. The airplane that Dan Denney (not "Denning")
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Tire and Wheel upgrade? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT@msn.com>
I am going to install new Matco 6" split wheels on my model IV 1200, also a friend
gave me brand new 800x6 air trac oversize tires that I want to use! I have
Grove spring gear with the GAC 3/4x5 axle already install with the old ATV wheel.
I want to continue to use this axle with the new Matco wheel, anything
I should know prior to installing? Also I purchase the new axles from Matco with
the w8 base, that requires cutting the length of the axle to fit properly
does anyone have the required length in notes that I can use as a ref?
any help please
Ray
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage compartment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Kirt,
I attached the plywood sides to the tubing with #6-32 stainless flat
head screws that were screwed into anchor nuts. The anchor nuts were
secured to small wood blocks that were cemented with structural adhesive
to the tubing. The plywood sides were attached to the floor by aluminum
angle and #6-32 SS screws. All plywood sides were removable. The
weight of the plywood and aluminum angles were a pound more than the
cloth sack provided by SkyStar. I did not use the cloth sack.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
kurt schrader wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>Thanks John,
>
>Did you fasten the wood to the upper tubing with Adel
>clemps, or what? Any other supports added? Did it
>add much weight? I suppose it is removable. I'll do
>an upgrade on that later on my plane.
>
>Kurt S.
>
>--- John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Kurt,
>>
>>That bothered me when I was building my Series 6.
>>Also I did not like
>>the fabric sides as a support to contain shifting
>>cargo in turbulence.
>>I decided to remove the fabric entirely and designed
>>solid sides and a
>>back end with removal 3/32-inch aircraft grade
>>plywood. The plywood
>>sides and bottom also supported the cargo deck. It
>>turned into a much more sturdier cargo bay.
>>
>>--
>>John King
>>Warrenton, VA
>>
>>
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
An inatertesting tidbit. Here in Cameron Park we had a man - a minister /
missionary - that would spend three months here and then three months in
Africa tending his flock there. He mentioned that he was about 15 miles
from an airport that took over an hour by auto, as I recall. He needed
something that would give him more mobility and had Dean Wilson design a
bi-plane for him. It was a very interesting design.
It was designed for heavy hauling and the cargo door was sufficiently large
for a 55 gal drum to be inserted. It also had flaperons on the lower wings,
witth flaps on the upper wings that were convigured like slats on a venetion
blind. It took on the nickname the Venetion Blind .
It was the test flying of his airplane that caused the uproar that
essentilly closed Cameron Park to test flying experimantal aircraft. After
flying off the 40 hours I helped him load it into a shipping container where
it was shipped to Africa. The last I heard of it it was damaged in a
landing and waiting parts. The missionary owner died in the crash of his
Robinson Exec - it threw a main rotor blade - also intended for use in
Africa.
I will post an image on sportflight.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1141530988
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN LARSEN" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JOHN LARSEN" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
>
> Hi;
> Yes you are right. Dean would work with a design until he found interest
> in
> new one, and then the first design would be off his radar screen. I
> designed the MK IV Avid as the C Model, its predecessor, needed an
> upgrade
> and Dean was off on the Explorer project. He was obviously better
> qualified
> but had lost interest.
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 3/4/2006 9:55:17 AM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>>
>> >My understanding is Dan Denning and Dean Wilson started together and
>> >made the Kitfox.
>>
>> Nope. The airplane that Dan Denney (not "Denning") and Dean Wilson
>> designed together was called the "Avid Flyer." It was equipped with
>> a nosewheel and a Cessna-style cowling that closely resembled
>> later-model Avids. Some time after the two split, Denney
>> experimented with a radial engine and designed the now-famous round
>> cowling. The engine didn't work out but the round look was a big hit.
>>
>> Even by the early 1990s when I bought my Kitfox Model IV, the two
>> designs had diverged noticeably and Avid was offering an amphibian
>> (the Catalina?) and the much larger Magnum, in addition to the
>> original Avid Flyer.
>>
>> The impression I got when shopping for my kit (and this is just my
>> personal opinion!) was that while Avid had spread their energy over
>> the development of several product lines that appealed to buyers with
>> different needs, Denney/SkyStar had spent their time refining the
>> original design.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: calculating Va (What me worry?) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Roger,
The short answer is I don't know. The long answer is I have decided to not
fly in it - at least until the owner has at least 250 hours in it. I am
aware of the accident statistics, however I didn't know the ratio was that
high. Many of the owners will keep 100 kts on final because of the high
stall speed, so any unplanned contact with the ground is at very high
speeds.
Some of the things I hear and question have to do with low speed
performance. Now I don't know if what I am saying is peculiar to the IV,
or the other models, but I hear they won't flare. One guy said he had flown
six Lancairs and none of them would flare. One guy said his won't rotate on
takeoff, that he just waits until it wants to fly and then flys it off the
ground.
Some one wanted to know some weights for W/B estimating for his airplane.
And some of the numbers surprised me, i.e. 321# rt main 320# lft main
370#-nose wheel, for example. Seems a lot of wt. on that little wheel our
front. My guess is that they are loaded heavy up front and possibly the
main gear is designed/positioned too far aft.
I generally enjoy the building as I enjoy learning new skills., but I don't
want to own one, nor am I looking forward to flying in one.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: calculating Va (What me worry?)
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
>
>
> Lowell,
> Our guest speaker, a well known aircraft designer, at our EAA Chapter
> meeting this past week stated that 25% of the Lancair IV fleet has crashed
> with some people being killed. He works with the NTSB and stated the
> reason being that they were designed for 3000 lb gross and are routinely
> being flown at 4000 lb gross. What did you say your friend is building?
> What is he anticipating for his empty and gross weights?
> Roger
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lowell Fitt<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: calculating Va (What me worry?)
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>>
>
> Interesting stuff. I do slow down when the turbulence makes the flying
> uncomfortable, but for some reason, I'm not particularly concerned about
> the
> wings falling off or anything else for that matter. Guys and Gals have
> been flying these things for years and I would guess well over a million
> hours total (maybe 2 million) with all levels of builder skills and
> piloting
> skills and no inflight structural failures - Wow to that.
>
> Lancairs have broken up in flight, but flying through thunder storms
> would
> probably break up a Kirfox too. When I was new to my Model IV,
> turbulence
> was quite uncomfortable and I'm sure the old adrenaline level reflected
> that, but after flying a bit (I still prefer still air) I no longer fear
> for
> my life if it gets bouncy and try to stay on the ground when it looks
> dicey..
>
> I get a certain kick out of some of the talk on the Lancair list - guys
> with
> an engineering background that insist the $50 electrical connctors are
> necessary because they are used on the Space Shuttle. I just ordered
> some
> $0.50 connectors that were recommended by an avionics shop - who's to
> say.
>
> I think the Kitfox is a fine airplane, well designed and engineered. I
> guess some day one might fall apart in the air and then we will really
> have
> something to talk about. It's fun to learn how others think and it
> always
> gives some food for thought, but...
>
> This is just one more opinion.
>
> Lowell
>
>
>
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Several years ago Dean Wilson was the guest speaker at our EAA 837
banquet. He was involved in helping one of our members with the Mifyter
bi-plane. It was very interesting to say the least. I wish we had
recorded it. It was amazing how many planes and projects he had been
involved in. From ag spray planes to sea planes. I tried to buy a kit
for his elliptical wing plane but he was closing that down and doing
something else. We got to see drawings of the some of the projects and
stories about the French adventurer and the planes he built for him, and
about the TV show that was done with it. One of the things my wife and I
like most about this experimental airplane stuff is the really good and
amazing people we meet through it.
Lowell Fitt wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>An inatertesting tidbit. Here in Cameron Park we had a man - a minister /
>missionary - that would spend three months here and then three months in
>Africa tending his flock there. He mentioned that he was about 15 miles
>from an airport that took over an hour by auto, as I recall. He needed
>something that would give him more mobility and had Dean Wilson design a
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | (What me worry?) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
When my friend and I decided to build a Lancair we were more than a
little concerned about the high stall speed of the 4, so decided to give
up top end and build the ES. It fitted our needs much better with the
shorter field requirements and such, and most of the business trips it
was being built for did not require the fast and high of the 4. I have
not studied it in several years, but from what I remember is that it is
so aerodynamically slick that it gets away from the pilot very quickly,
turning a minor loss of control usually in IFR for another plane into a
big problem. The other problem is that the stats are really against you.
As the touch down speed increased the survivability goes down. A
controlled off field landing in a Kitfox is usually no big deal from a
survival point of view, but as the touchdown speed goes over 70 you are
in real trouble. From what I understand the Legacy tried to address that
with a 65 mph stall, but that is still fast. I don't believe the problem
is isolated to Lancair, but is common with all the fast glass planes,
including certified planes.
>Roger,
>
>The short answer is I don't know. The long answer is I have decided to not
>fly in it - at least until the owner has at least 250 hours in it. I am
>aware of the accident statistics, however I didn't know the ratio was that
>high. Many of the owners will keep 100 kts on final because of the high
>stall speed, so any unplanned contact with the ground is at very high
>speeds.
>
>Some of the things I hear and question have to do with low speed
>performance. Now I don't know if what I am saying is peculiar to the IV,
>
>
>
>
>
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