Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:44 AM - Re: Tire and Wheel upgrade? (Brett Walmsley)
2. 07:15 AM - Re: Re roiugh running (Kerry Skyring)
3. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (Chet & Marylu Richer)
4. 07:44 AM - Series 5 cowling for sale (Kerry Skyring)
5. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (Sid Hausding)
6. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (Lowell Fitt)
7. 09:42 AM - Re: Tire and Wheel upgrade? (jdmcbean)
8. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Radiator Ideas (scoop) (Norm Beauchamp)
9. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (jdmcbean)
10. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (jdmcbean)
11. 11:25 AM - 912 water hoses (Dick D'Archangel)
12. 11:25 AM - poly header tank (Dick D'Archangel)
13. 01:22 PM - 582 questions (Marco Menezes)
14. 01:43 PM - Intercooler (John Anderson)
15. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: Avid/Kitfox (Paul Seehafer)
16. 04:40 PM - Re: 912 water hoses (RAY Gignac)
17. 05:01 PM - Re: 582 questions (Bob Robertson)
18. 05:14 PM - Re: another 582 questions (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
19. 06:45 PM - Re: 582 questions (Marco Menezes)
20. 06:51 PM - Re: Intercooler (wingsdown)
21. 07:12 PM - Re: Tire and Wheel upgrade? (Clint Bazzill)
22. 08:57 PM - Re: 582 questions (aerocon1@telusplanet.net)
23. 08:57 PM - Re: Baggage compartment (kurt schrader)
24. 09:14 PM - Re: Baggage compartment (kurt schrader)
25. 09:20 PM - Avid/Kitfox (Sid Hausding)
26. 09:26 PM - Avid/Kitfox (Sid Hausding)
27. 09:56 PM - Re: Avid/Kitfox (Allan Aaron)
28. 11:54 PM - Re: Intercooler (John Anderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tire and Wheel upgrade? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
I believe if you cotact Grove they will sell you the exact axles you need
for those wheels.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 3:38 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tire and Wheel upgrade?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT@msn.com>
>
> I am going to install new Matco 6" split wheels on my model IV 1200, also
> a friend gave me brand new 800x6 air trac oversize tires that I want to
> use! I have Grove spring gear with the GAC 3/4x5 axle already install
> with the old ATV wheel. I want to continue to use this axle with the new
> Matco wheel, anything I should know prior to installing? Also I purchase
> the new axles from Matco with the w8 base, that requires cutting the
> length of the axle to fit properly does anyone have the required length in
> notes that I can use as a ref?
>
> any help please
>
> Ray
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re roiugh running |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
Rex,
Many thanks and thanks to others who have replied. We do indeed have a facet
electric pump and then the standard mechanical pump in line. We have begun
investigating this by installing a temporary pressure gauge on the fuel line
to one carburettor. Will check pressure on the left side and then the right.
We are all set to do more test runs but the gliding club is having its
annual "let's get all the gliders serviced and polished and ready for the
season weekend" and has occupied the front of the hangar so we are locked in
by dismantled gliders. And another 12 inches of snow has just fallen so even
if the gliders weren't there we'd be hangar bound.
We have also discussed the problem with our local aircraft engineer who has
lots of experience on Rotax. He suggests we try really hard to isolate
whether fuel pressure is the problem and then if we still have rough running
to bring it back into the hangar, take the carburettors off and have them
completely cleaned and adjusted. His guess is that a small amount of dirt or
other foreign material has got in during the building process and is causing
problems. The fact that the (new) engine sat for 2 years without being run
may also be a contributing factor. I will report when we know more.
Kerry
>Hi ! Kerry,
> yes I would suspect too much fuel pressure. Bear in mind if
>you have the two fuel pumps in series [ the output of the Facet into the
>input of the mechanical ] the pressures are additive. ie:- if your
>mecanical pump pumps say 5 PSI and your Facet pump is say 4 PSI then your
>pressure at the carby is 9 PSI and your carby won't handle that without
>flooding. Check your manual for carby pressure requirements. It's probably
>about 6 PSI.
> If your not sure what pressure you are getting at the carby it really is
>very easy to simply measure it.
>
>
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chet & Marylu Richer" <mricher@linkny.com>
Does anyone out in kitfox land know the Skyraider plane fits into the Avid/Kitfox
story ?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Series 5 cowling for sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
This is a new smooth cowling for an 0-200 Cont. (I think it suits the
Lycooming as well) on an S5 which the owner has asked me to mention for him
on the list. He says it cost him around 800 US dollars landed in Vienna
Austria and he would like to get 400 dollars for it. So whoever buys would
be paying 400 plus the cost of shipping. The owner would pack it and send
it. Obviously this is a much better deal for someone in Europe than in the
US. Email me off list if you are interested and I will be the go-between and
translator.
Kerry
kitfox builders helper.
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
I think I remember talking to the fellow at Oshkosh and he said he had worked for
the Avid factory at one point.
Most of the "newer" designs coming out lately are all upgrades of the original
Avid. If you note the addresses on most of the new companies and aircraft designs
in this category and size, you will find a majority are from the Boise,
Caldwell areas of Idaho, which is the site of the original Avid and Kitfox factories........
2 + 2 in my book, means most of are displaced factory workers
with better improvements, but at the cost of more weight and more cost. Keeping
the earlier Kitfox and Avid models to the factory designed weight is the key
to their economy and thrilling performance.................IMO.
Sid
Speedwing
----------------------------------------
Chet & Marylu Richer <mricher@> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chet & Marylu Richer"
Does anyone out in kitfox land know the Skyraider plane fits into the Avid/Kitfox
story ?
"Why can't we all just get along?"
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sid, I couldn't agree with you more. I think of it almost like the
Original Ford Thunderbird and what it evolved into. I am aware that others
will strongly disagree and that is good too.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sid Hausding" <avidsid@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
>
> I think I remember talking to the fellow at Oshkosh and he said he had
> worked for the Avid factory at one point.
>
> Most of the "newer" designs coming out lately are all upgrades of the
> original Avid. If you note the addresses on most of the new companies and
> aircraft designs in this category and size, you will find a majority are
> from the Boise, Caldwell areas of Idaho, which is the site of the original
> Avid and Kitfox factories........ 2 + 2 in my book, means most of are
> displaced factory workers with better improvements, but at the cost of
> more weight and more cost. Keeping the earlier Kitfox and Avid models to
> the factory designed weight is the key to their economy and thrilling
> performance.................IMO.
> Sid
> Speedwing
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
> Chet & Marylu Richer <mricher@> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chet & Marylu Richer"
>
> Does anyone out in kitfox land know the Skyraider plane fits into the
> Avid/Kitfox story ?
>
>
> "Why can't we all just get along?"
>
> ---------------------------------
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Tire and Wheel upgrade? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Ray,
We can help with new axles..
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RAY Gignac
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 1:38 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tire and Wheel upgrade?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT@msn.com>
I am going to install new Matco 6" split wheels on my model IV 1200, also a
friend gave me brand new 800x6 air trac oversize tires that I want to use!
I have Grove spring gear with the GAC 3/4x5 axle already install with the
old ATV wheel. I want to continue to use this axle with the new Matco
wheel, anything I should know prior to installing? Also I purchase the new
axles from Matco with the w8 base, that requires cutting the length of the
axle to fit properly does anyone have the required length in notes that I
can use as a ref?
any help please
Ray
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator Ideas (scoop) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp@wcc.net>
On my previous cowl I had a scoop that was built using Darrel Mossie's
example as a guide
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main&category=Improvements
<http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main&category=Improvements>
It worked very well for my application at the time. It was my first
try at fiber glassing and has some slight imperfections. It could
however be used as a mold or with some work, used as is. I was going to
pitch it, but on second thought if someone wants it for the postage its
yours. Norm.
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Chet & Marylu,
This is my understanding from when I worked at SkyStar... Kenny Schrader,
owner and founder of Skyraider, worked at SkyStar aircraft. He was working
on an ultralight design of his own and when developed offered it to SkyStar.
At the time SkyStar wasn't too interested in a single seat ultralight.
Shortly after that Skystar developed the Kitfox Lite which was initially a
Skyraider fuselage (bought from Skyraider) with Kitfox designed wing and
flaperons.
I'm sure there is more to the story... there always is. Kenny was a great
guy and fun to be around. He died doing what he loved.. flying his
Skyraider low and slow and reports at the time said he was spotting
Coyotes...
Flying K is Skyraider renamed owned by Kenny's father-in-law and Ridge
Runner is another derivative of the Skyraider that is owned by Kenny's
brother.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chet & Marylu
Richer
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chet & Marylu Richer"
<mricher@linkny.com>
Does anyone out in kitfox land know the Skyraider plane fits into the
Avid/Kitfox story ?
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Sid,
I think you are correct... We have been doing that for 2 years now... The
key is to keep the weight as light as possible...
Just for conversation.. where does one draw the line ??
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sid Hausding
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
I think I remember talking to the fellow at Oshkosh and he said he had
worked for the Avid factory at one point.
Most of the "newer" designs coming out lately are all upgrades of the
original Avid. If you note the addresses on most of the new companies and
aircraft designs in this category and size, you will find a majority are
from the Boise, Caldwell areas of Idaho, which is the site of the original
Avid and Kitfox factories........ 2 + 2 in my book, means most of are
displaced factory workers with better improvements, but at the cost of more
weight and more cost. Keeping the earlier Kitfox and Avid models to the
factory designed weight is the key to their economy and thrilling
performance.................IMO.
Sid
Speedwing
----------------------------------------
Chet & Marylu Richer <mricher@> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chet & Marylu Richer"
Does anyone out in kitfox land know the Skyraider plane fits into the
Avid/Kitfox story ?
"Why can't we all just get along?"
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dick D'Archangel" <rdarchangel@earthlink.net>
What is your experience with replacing the water hoses from water pump
to cylinder heads and from cylinder heads to reservoir on the Rotax
912? I have been unable to find a source for 17 mm water hose.
Dick D'Archangel
Classic 4 912 UL
Jefferson County Aiprort, Washington
Message 12
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| Subject: | poly header tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dick D'Archangel" <rdarchangel@earthlink.net>
I have had some problems with the plastic header tanks mostly due to the
fact that male fitting threads are way harder than the female threads in
the tank. The solution I arrived at was to use polyurethane glue
(Gorilla Glue) as a sealer. It expands when it cures (moisture is the
catalyst for this glue) and seems to lock the fitting in very securely.
The joints I have sealed have held up to 100 hrs of service over 18
months. I am not an expert on glue, and I have not heard of anyone else
sealing threads this way, but I think its worth consideration if you
are having problems.
Dick D'Archangel
Classic 4 w/912ul
Jefferson County Airport, Washington
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
List:
I've been trying to get both the full power and idle rpm's down on my 582. Repitched
the prop and fiddled with the idle adjustments (twin Bing 54s) today with
mixed results. Idle and WOT remain a bit high (2200, 6500 static, respectively)
though I was pleased that EGTs stayed where they should be.
Of major concern, however, was a sudden and unprecedented overrev at full power.
It was tooting along fine, wide open at 6500 when suddenly it jumped, nearly
pinning the indicator in the red. I cut back power immediately and it continued
to run well at lower power settings. For a change, I was glad the fox was
tied to the ground.
After I pulled the cowlings off, I noticed a good bit of oily black residue that
appeared to have blown out of the first exhaust joint, probably out of the
forward cylinder. Plugs looked ok though.
Any thoughts on the overrev situation? How many CCW turns from dead closed should
the idle air and adjustment screws be set to ge me near 1800 rpm at idle?
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Kurt S. wrote. But now you have to tell us how you intercooled the
turbo???
Kurt, I sourced a small intercooler off a wee Toyota Starlet (New Zealand -
might not be called that in US) and it took very little modification to fit.
I sits just under the upper cowl (std 0200 cowl) and I have fabricated a
f/glass air shoot to channel air from the front inlet to it. John
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Baggage compartment and Intercooler
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Agreed John,
I used eyebolts there too with straps and nets. I
also pull that baggage fabric as tight as I can before
it is velcroed in place to spread the floor load. I
added washers under the floor to raise it just a tad
too. Still worries me.
But now you have to tell us how you intercooled the
turbo???
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
I still own the Avid/Kitfox prototype N99AF,and consequently found this
thread pretty interesting.
If you check out the old posting
http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/avid1.jpg you will see the early Light
Aero (Avid) brochure with Dan Denney sitting in the Avid prototype. That
pretty much proves who was first, as Denney didn't start Kitfox until after
leaving Avid. The 1st Avid flew in the fall of '82. Another interesting
twist to the story if I recall correctly is that John McBean's father was
involved in N99AF's first flights. Small world sometimes, isn't it.
One of my personal goals is to one day get the Avid/Kitfox prototype into a
museum (EAA?). But I'm not ready to donate it away quite yet, but maybe
that will one day change. As much as it impacted the world of recreational
flying, it certainly deserves it's place in history, and a little more
recognition. It is a timeless design that is sure to outlive all of us, and
was a trendsetter in personal aviation if there ever was one. I'm pretty
convinced if you count all of the copies/derivatives that it has to be one
of the most copied light aircraft design in history. Let's see, besides the
various Kitfox models, there is the Raven, Mohawk, Montana Coyote,
Highlander, Escapade, Eurofox, Skyfox Gazelle, Bushbaby, SkyRaider, Ridge
Runner, Airdale, etc, etc. And how many more am I missing?
Gee, has a Piper Cub been copied as much?
Paul Seehafer
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN LARSEN" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
> Hi;
> Yes you are right. Dean would work with a design until he found interest
> in
> new one, and then the first design would be off his radar screen. I
> designed the MK IV Avid as the C Model, its predecessor, needed an
> upgrade
> and Dean was off on the Explorer project. He was obviously better
> qualified
> but had lost interest.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 912 water hoses |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT@msn.com>
I was able to find the same size hose at the local auto parts store, you have to
ask for heater hose.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick D'Archangel<mailto:rdarchangel@earthlink.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 2:22 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 water hoses
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dick D'Archangel" <rdarchangel@earthlink.net<mailto:rdarchangel@earthlink.net>>
What is your experience with replacing the water hoses from water pump
to cylinder heads and from cylinder heads to reservoir on the Rotax
912? I have been unable to find a source for 17 mm water hose.
Dick D'Archangel
Classic 4 912 UL
Jefferson County Aiprort, Washington
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 582 questions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Marco,
One of our customers had that happen on take off (sudden over-revving).. He
had lots of coolant leaking from the first exhaust joint and blowing back
onto the engine. Seeing as we had recently serviced this engine, we had him
return it to us (at our expense)so we could do an examination on the
engine. Our initial
thought was that there was a problem with the crankcase halves sealing.
Upon disassembly, there was no signs of a crankcase mating surface leak and
the seals were all in good shape. Our final determination was that as one
of the water pump bolts goes directly into the pto crankcase the engione had
ingested coolant from this location. . This bolt is assembled using
liberal quantieies of Loctite 518 sealant on the threads. We feel that
there was not enough Loctite placed on the threads and coolant was allowed
to pass from the water pump into the cylinder/. It does not take much
coolant to create extra hp (remember the 1980's and water injection on hot
rod engines?). We re-sealed the engine and used lots of loctite on the
water pump bolts and all is now well. The water pump housings are
notorious for warping because of over tightning. This can add to the
problem is the mating surface lacks integrety.
The idle air scres does not control the idle speed. It should be set to 1
turn out from closed. The large idle screws on the side of the engine
should be initially set at 2.5 turns in from initial contact with the slide.
You can adjust the idle up and down from there done in 1/4 turn increments).
Whatever you do to one carb need to be done to the other.
I'm not 100% sure your over-revving was caused by ingestion of coolant, but
it sure sounds similar.
Hope this helps
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Menezes" <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 1:18 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 questions
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
> List:
>
> I've been trying to get both the full power and idle rpm's down on my
582. Repitched the prop and fiddled with the idle adjustments (twin Bing
54s) today with mixed results. Idle and WOT remain a bit high (2200, 6500
static, respectively) though I was pleased that EGTs stayed where they
should be.
>
> Of major concern, however, was a sudden and unprecedented overrev at
full power. It was tooting along fine, wide open at 6500 when suddenly it
jumped, nearly pinning the indicator in the red. I cut back power
immediately and it continued to run well at lower power settings. For a
change, I was glad the fox was tied to the ground.
>
> After I pulled the cowlings off, I noticed a good bit of oily black
residue that appeared to have blown out of the first exhaust joint, probably
out of the forward cylinder. Plugs looked ok though.
>
> Any thoughts on the overrev situation? How many CCW turns from dead
closed should the idle air and adjustment screws be set to ge me near 1800
rpm at idle?
>
>
> Marco Menezes
> Model 2 582 N99KX
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List:another 582 questions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
I have a 66-10% 3 blade wood prop (fixed pitch ) on my kf 2 W/ a E
box 3.0 to 1 gear reduction how should I expect the moter to respond and how
high should the rpm,s get with this set up. malcolm
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 582 questions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Thanks Bob, i'll try removing and resealing the water pump bolts. Manual seems
to recommend 221/222 on those bolts. So should I use 518 only on the one that
penetrates the pto unit? Also, do you mean Loctite 515? I can't seem to locate
518 anywhere. Finally, long as i'm detorquing those pump bolts, should I replace
the pump gasket at the same time? I gotta admit that over-reving freaked
me out. I'm glad it wasn't on takeoff.
Marco
Bob Robertson <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
Marco,
One of our customers had that happen on take off (sudden over-revving).. He
had lots of coolant leaking from the first exhaust joint and blowing back
onto the engine. Seeing as we had recently serviced this engine, we had him
return it to us (at our expense)so we could do an examination on the
engine. Our initial
thought was that there was a problem with the crankcase halves sealing.
Upon disassembly, there was no signs of a crankcase mating surface leak and
the seals were all in good shape. Our final determination was that as one
of the water pump bolts goes directly into the pto crankcase the engione had
ingested coolant from this location. . This bolt is assembled using
liberal quantieies of Loctite 518 sealant on the threads. We feel that
there was not enough Loctite placed on the threads and coolant was allowed
to pass from the water pump into the cylinder/. It does not take much
coolant to create extra hp (remember the 1980's and water injection on hot
rod engines?). We re-sealed the engine and used lots of loctite on the
water pump bolts and all is now well. The water pump housings are
notorious for warping because of over tightning. This can add to the
problem is the mating surface lacks integrety.
The idle air scres does not control the idle speed. It should be set to 1
turn out from closed. The large idle screws on the side of the engine
should be initially set at 2.5 turns in from initial contact with the slide.
You can adjust the idle up and down from there done in 1/4 turn increments).
Whatever you do to one carb need to be done to the other.
I'm not 100% sure your over-revving was caused by ingestion of coolant, but
it sure sounds similar.
Hope this helps
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Menezes"
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 1:18 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 questions
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
>
> List:
>
> I've been trying to get both the full power and idle rpm's down on my
582. Repitched the prop and fiddled with the idle adjustments (twin Bing
54s) today with mixed results. Idle and WOT remain a bit high (2200, 6500
static, respectively) though I was pleased that EGTs stayed where they
should be.
>
> Of major concern, however, was a sudden and unprecedented overrev at
full power. It was tooting along fine, wide open at 6500 when suddenly it
jumped, nearly pinning the indicator in the red. I cut back power
immediately and it continued to run well at lower power settings. For a
change, I was glad the fox was tied to the ground.
>
> After I pulled the cowlings off, I noticed a good bit of oily black
residue that appeared to have blown out of the first exhaust joint, probably
out of the forward cylinder. Plugs looked ok though.
>
> Any thoughts on the overrev situation? How many CCW turns from dead
closed should the idle air and adjustment screws be set to ge me near 1800
rpm at idle?
>
>
> Marco Menezes
> Model 2 582 N99KX
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Kurt,
To all. This can only be done if the engine is injected.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Intercooler
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Kurt S. wrote. But now you have to tell us how you intercooled the
turbo???
Kurt, I sourced a small intercooler off a wee Toyota Starlet (New
Zealand -
might not be called that in US) and it took very little modification to
fit.
I sits just under the upper cowl (std 0200 cowl) and I have fabricated a
f/glass air shoot to channel air from the front inlet to it. John
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Baggage compartment and Intercooler
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Agreed John,
I used eyebolts there too with straps and nets. I
also pull that baggage fabric as tight as I can before
it is velcroed in place to spread the floor load. I
added washers under the floor to raise it just a tad
too. Still worries me.
But now you have to tell us how you intercooled the
turbo???
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Message 21
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| Subject: | Tire and Wheel upgrade? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
I have an extra set of axles for the Grove gear. If you are interested,
contact me off line. Clint
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tire and Wheel upgrade?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Ray,
We can help with new axles..
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RAY Gignac
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 1:38 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tire and Wheel upgrade?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT@msn.com>
I am going to install new Matco 6" split wheels on my model IV 1200, also a
friend gave me brand new 800x6 air trac oversize tires that I want to use!
I have Grove spring gear with the GAC 3/4x5 axle already install with the
old ATV wheel. I want to continue to use this axle with the new Matco
wheel, anything I should know prior to installing? Also I purchase the new
axles from Matco with the w8 base, that requires cutting the length of the
axle to fit properly does anyone have the required length in notes that I
can use as a ref?
any help please
Ray
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 582 questions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: aerocon1@telusplanet.net
Marco,
515 and 518 are pretty much interchangeable. Both are anerobic just that 515
sets up quicker (be liberal with the application). The use of 222 on the
other bolts is a good idea.
I'd remove the water pump cover and inspect to see if you can see and path
that the coolant could have traveled. While you have the cover off, it would
be ideal to re-surface the mating surface. Place a sheet of fine emery paper
on a piece of plate or flat glass and move the cover over this in a figure
eight motion. Check to see if there are any high sports on the cover mating
surface. Only take enough off to remove any high spots and level the surface.
If too much is removed the bolt that goes into the crankcase could jam up
against the crankshaft.
Quoting Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Bob, i'll try removing and resealing the water pump bolts. Manual
> seems to recommend 221/222 on those bolts. So should I use 518 only on the
> one that penetrates the pto unit? Also, do you mean Loctite 515? I can't seem
> to locate 518 anywhere. Finally, long as i'm detorquing those pump bolts,
> should I replace the pump gasket at the same time? I gotta admit that
> over-reving freaked me out. I'm glad it wasn't on takeoff.
>
> Marco
>
> Bob Robertson <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
>
> Marco,
> One of our customers had that happen on take off (sudden over-revving).. He
> had lots of coolant leaking from the first exhaust joint and blowing back
> onto the engine. Seeing as we had recently serviced this engine, we had him
> return it to us (at our expense)so we could do an examination on the
> engine. Our initial
> thought was that there was a problem with the crankcase halves sealing.
> Upon disassembly, there was no signs of a crankcase mating surface leak and
> the seals were all in good shape. Our final determination was that as one
> of the water pump bolts goes directly into the pto crankcase the engione had
> ingested coolant from this location. . This bolt is assembled using
> liberal quantieies of Loctite 518 sealant on the threads. We feel that
> there was not enough Loctite placed on the threads and coolant was allowed
> to pass from the water pump into the cylinder/. It does not take much
> coolant to create extra hp (remember the 1980's and water injection on hot
> rod engines?). We re-sealed the engine and used lots of loctite on the
> water pump bolts and all is now well. The water pump housings are
> notorious for warping because of over tightning. This can add to the
> problem is the mating surface lacks integrety.
>
> The idle air scres does not control the idle speed. It should be set to 1
> turn out from closed. The large idle screws on the side of the engine
> should be initially set at 2.5 turns in from initial contact with the slide.
> You can adjust the idle up and down from there done in 1/4 turn increments).
> Whatever you do to one carb need to be done to the other.
>
> I'm not 100% sure your over-revving was caused by ingestion of coolant, but
> it sure sounds similar.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Bob Robertson
> Light Engine Services Ltd.
> Rotax Service Center
> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
> www.aerocontrols.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marco Menezes"
> To: "Matronics.com"
> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 1:18 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 questions
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
> >
> > List:
> >
> > I've been trying to get both the full power and idle rpm's down on my
> 582. Repitched the prop and fiddled with the idle adjustments (twin Bing
> 54s) today with mixed results. Idle and WOT remain a bit high (2200, 6500
> static, respectively) though I was pleased that EGTs stayed where they
> should be.
> >
> > Of major concern, however, was a sudden and unprecedented overrev at
> full power. It was tooting along fine, wide open at 6500 when suddenly it
> jumped, nearly pinning the indicator in the red. I cut back power
> immediately and it continued to run well at lower power settings. For a
> change, I was glad the fox was tied to the ground.
> >
> > After I pulled the cowlings off, I noticed a good bit of oily black
> residue that appeared to have blown out of the first exhaust joint, probably
> out of the forward cylinder. Plugs looked ok though.
> >
> > Any thoughts on the overrev situation? How many CCW turns from dead
> closed should the idle air and adjustment screws be set to ge me near 1800
> rpm at idle?
> >
> >
> > Marco Menezes
> > Model 2 582 N99KX
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage compartment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
That is quite an upgrade for one pound John. You da'
man! Again!
Kurt S.
--- John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net> wrote:
> Kirt,
>
> I attached the plywood sides to the tubing with
> #6-32 stainless flat
> head screws that were screwed into anchor nuts. The
> anchor nuts were
> secured to small wood blocks that were cemented with
> structural adhesive
> to the tubing. The plywood sides were attached to
> the floor by aluminum
> angle and #6-32 SS screws. All plywood sides were
> removable. The
> weight of the plywood and aluminum angles were a
> pound more than the
> cloth sack provided by SkyStar. I did not use the
> cloth sack.
>
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
Message 24
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| Subject: | Baggage compartment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Guy,
--- Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
> Well, if you're uncomfortable sitting in your cargo
> area, I would think you
> would be very uncomfortable with 135 pounds in it.
> (3.8g * 135 lbs = 513
> lbs.) Unless you weigh more than 513 lbs... ;-)
Ya' caught me between diets Guy.... ;-) Really it is
that first step in when all my weight is on one foot
that scares me. My footprint isn't the same as a
spread out load on that bulsa floor.
> -------------------------
> >You are right about wing strut ends too. Mine had
> >to have the upgraded bolts to use 1550# gross.
>
> Which bolts did you upgrade? The outboard end? To
> what did you upgrade?
The outboard ends. 1/4" bolts. Actually they were
upgraded to harder bolts by SkyStar on the later
S-5's, so I was told. I just used the ones provided.
> -------------------------
> >I was flying
> >at full power, left hand on the stick upside down
> >(thumb down and elbow up) spun around in my seat to
> >face backwards, and standing on the peddles.
>
> You were flying an A4 sitting BACKWARDS? You ARE
> good! (Not sure I'd try it in a 152.)
"Used to" be good, Guy. Now just old and looking back
in time. Just as amazed as you are too. What is
really amazing is another pilot mooned his wingman in
one. Think of what that all requires. The cockpit
just isn't that big.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
Paul,
another beer at Oshkosh, too.
Sid
-------------------------------------------
Paul Seehafer <wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer"
I still own the Avid/Kitfox prototype N99AF,and consequently found this
thread pretty interesting.
If you check out the old posting
http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/avid1.jpg you will see the early Light
Aero (Avid) brochure with Dan Denney sitting in the Avid prototype. That
pretty much proves who was first, as Denney didn't start Kitfox until after
leaving Avid. The 1st Avid flew in the fall of '82. Another interesting
twist to the story if I recall correctly is that John McBean's father was
involved in N99AF's first flights. Small world sometimes, isn't it.
One of my personal goals is to one day get the Avid/Kitfox prototype into a
museum (EAA?). But I'm not ready to donate it away quite yet, but maybe
that will one day change. As much as it impacted the world of recreational
flying, it certainly deserves it's place in history, and a little more
recognition. It is a timeless design that is sure to outlive all of us, and
was a trendsetter in personal aviation if there ever was one. I'm pretty
convinced if you count all of the copies/derivatives that it has to be one
of the most copied light aircraft design in history. Let's see, besides the
various Kitfox models, there is the Raven, Mohawk, Montana Coyote,
Highlander, Escapade, Eurofox, Skyfox Gazelle, Bushbaby, SkyRaider, Ridge
Runner, Airdale, etc, etc. And how many more am I missing?
Gee, has a Piper Cub been copied as much?
Paul Seehafer
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN LARSEN"
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
> Hi;
> Yes you are right. Dean would work with a design until he found interest
> in
> new one, and then the first design would be off his radar screen. I
> designed the MK IV Avid as the C Model, its predecessor, needed an
> upgrade
> and Dean was off on the Explorer project. He was obviously better
> qualified
> but had lost interest.
"Why can't we all just get along?"
---------------------------------
Message 26
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
Anyway, he (?) worked for someone that had the design and idea first............Dean,
probably. So, from there, its all afterwards................keep up the
good (no, great) work of offering aftermarket products and pieces for the Kitfox
and Avid.........
Sid
just sold my Speedwing, and regret ever having to be forced into that.............AVIDS
and Kitfoxes forever.
-----------------
jdmcbean <jdmcbean@ wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
Sid,
I think you are correct... We have been doing that for 2 years now... The
key is to keep the weight as light as possible...
Just for conversation.. where does one draw the line ??
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sid Hausding
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Avid/Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sid Hausding
I think I remember talking to the fellow at Oshkosh and he said he had
worked for the Avid factory at one point.
Most of the "newer" designs coming out lately are all upgrades of the
original Avid. If you note the addresses on most of the new companies and
aircraft designs in this category and size, you will find a majority are
from the Boise, Caldwell areas of Idaho, which is the site of the original
Avid and Kitfox factories........ 2 + 2 in my book, means most of are
displaced factory workers with better improvements, but at the cost of more
weight and more cost. Keeping the earlier Kitfox and Avid models to the
factory designed weight is the key to their economy and thrilling
performance.................IMO.
Sid
Speedwing
----------------------------------------
Chet & Marylu Richer wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chet & Marylu Richer"
Does anyone out in kitfox land know the Skyraider plane fits into the
Avid/Kitfox story ?
"Why can't we all just get along?"
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
"Why can't we all just get along?"
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 27
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Allan Aaron" <aaaron@tvp.com.au>
Hi Sid
Sorry to hear you sold your Avid. If you ever get down to Australia
you're welcome to come flying with me anytime!
Allan
Sid
just sold my Speedwing, and regret ever having to be forced into
that.............AVIDS and Kitfoxes forever.
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Yes, you sure are correct here Rick. John A.
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Intercooler
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Kurt,
To all. This can only be done if the engine is injected.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Intercooler
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Kurt S. wrote. But now you have to tell us how you intercooled the
turbo???
Kurt, I sourced a small intercooler off a wee Toyota Starlet (New
Zealand -
might not be called that in US) and it took very little modification to
fit.
I sits just under the upper cowl (std 0200 cowl) and I have fabricated a
f/glass air shoot to channel air from the front inlet to it. John
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Baggage compartment and Intercooler
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Agreed John,
I used eyebolts there too with straps and nets. I
also pull that baggage fabric as tight as I can before
it is velcroed in place to spread the floor load. I
added washers under the floor to raise it just a tad
too. Still worries me.
But now you have to tell us how you intercooled the
turbo???
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
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