Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:04 AM - Just bought my first Kitfox (Michael Laundy)
2. 04:06 AM - Re: Intercooler (kurt schrader)
3. 04:08 AM - Re: Just bought my first Kitfox (Bradley M Webb)
4. 04:22 AM - Re: 912 Spider Tank position (wwillyard@aol.com)
5. 04:23 AM - Re: 912 Spider Tank position (wwillyard@aol.com)
6. 05:17 AM - Re: New Member (Lynn Matteson)
7. 05:51 AM - Re: New Member (Rex)
8. 05:54 AM - Spider Tank pics (Colin Durey)
9. 07:01 AM - Re: Just bought my first Kitfox (Marco Menezes)
10. 07:20 AM - Re: New Member (Lowell Fitt)
11. 07:32 AM - Re: Spider Tank pics (Lowell Fitt)
12. 07:48 AM - Re: New Member (wingnut)
13. 08:13 AM - Re: New Member (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
14. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: New Member (Algate)
15. 08:16 AM - Re: Spider Tank pics (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
16. 08:23 AM - Re: Spider Tank pics (Clint Bazzill)
17. 08:23 AM - Re: 912 Spider Tank position (jdmcbean)
18. 08:48 AM - Re: New Member (ron schick)
19. 08:53 AM - Re: New Member (Aerobatics@aol.com)
20. 09:06 AM - Re: New Member (Don Pearsall)
21. 09:09 AM - Re: New Member (Michael Gibbs)
22. 09:45 AM - Re: New Member (jdmcbean)
23. 10:52 AM - Re: New Member (debrun26@juno.com)
24. 10:58 AM - Re: New Member (Mr NELSON GOGUEN)
25. 11:23 AM - Re: New Member (Alan & Linda Daniels)
26. 12:08 PM - Re: Just bought my first Kitfox (Michael Laundy)
27. 12:24 PM - Re: New Member (Michael Laundy)
28. 12:41 PM - Re: Just bought my first Kitfox (Andrew Matthaey)
29. 01:22 PM - Re: Intercooler (John Anderson)
30. 02:13 PM - Re: Intercooler and multiple ignition single plug (Michael Logan)
31. 03:51 PM - Re: Just bought my first Kitfox (RAY Gignac)
32. 04:12 PM - Kitfox Trailer (Bill Hammond)
33. 04:30 PM - Re: Just bought my first Kitfox (Bradley M Webb)
34. 04:43 PM - Re: New Member (Bradley M Webb)
35. 06:55 PM - Sport Pilot (Jim Crowder)
36. 07:07 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Alan & Linda Daniels)
37. 07:15 PM - Kitfox handling problems (Fox5flyer)
38. 07:20 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Andrew Matthaey)
39. 07:35 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Alan & Linda Daniels)
40. 07:37 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Aerobatics@aol.com)
41. 07:56 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Jim Crowder)
42. 08:25 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Andrew Matthaey)
43. 08:32 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Jimmie Blackwell)
44. 08:48 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Jim Crowder)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Just bought my first Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
I have just purchased a Kitfox 3 with Rotax 582, the aircraft has done 600 hours
and the engine 400 hours. I will be collecting it in a couple of weeks, and
the owner will give me a check out.
I would greatly appreciate any tips you guys can give me about any weaknesses
to look for in the airframe or engine. Also I would like to know of any handling
vices anyone has experienced. In particular are there any handling problems
with the flaperons? I have not flown such a system before. I will most likely
be operating into fairly short farm strips, so the slow speed handling techniques
are of particular interest.
Also I have not used a Rotax 582 before, any tips out there as to best way to
start it, and to operate it for maximum longevity.
I have a fair bit of flying under my belt (15000hrs) but much of it was in the
RAF and then on Boeings. Light aircraft around 900 hrs mostly tail draggers.
You are the guys with the real experience of the Kitfox, and I will greatly appreciate
any advice.
Thanks
Mike Laundy
---------------------------------
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi John,
Is that a Sub 4 from Rotor Flight Dynamics, Inc that
you have? They were listed here at Sun&Fun back in
2000 with a complete engine package. They had a
Florida point of contact listed too. Just found them
on Google.
In any case, what is the HP output of your engine?
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Two plug heads are available here in NZ - or were.
> My engine was originally
> EFI so I'm using the original injectors but have a
> Link Electrics ECU. I
> have dual primary ignition into a MSD switcher to
> single secondary. J.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Just bought my first Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Mike,
How old is the airframe?
Let me say I've read the books, but I have never been around a Kfox before.
My tail-dragger time was a whole 2 hours in a Champ for my sign-off. I've
got a lot of time, but all in certified planes. Sounds kind of like your
situation.
My airplane was in sad shape, systems-wise. But that's my forte, and
electrical and fuel can be fixed cheaply and easily. Airframe issues are
another matter. My basic airframe was sound, and the fabric was good (save
for a couple places).
The first thing I would look at is corrosion. My Model 2 was built in 91,
and there was the smallest bit of corrosion where the coolant had leaked,
and not taken care of.
Check the control rods under the seat, as my seat rested right on them. I
can give you a fix if you find a problem. Also spend time replacing the wing
bolts and the control system bolts. Cheap insurance.
Check to make sure that all SB's and SI's are complied with. If not, decide
whether you can do it yourself, or why it wasn't done. Mine were selectively
ignored. Some work involved, but nothing major.
If you wish, you can give me a call on the Rotax. Like you, I have lots of
time, but none behind the 582. It was a learning experience, but I'm getting
used to it. It is a little different, both in caring and flying. To start
it, pull the choke, light the ignition, and hit the start. It should fire up
in a second or so. Mine sat for 4 months, and fired right up. Basic fuel and
air stuff. Keep the temps within Rotax limits, and pay attention to the
details. It will be fine.
I have found the KFox to be the most forgiving and easy landing airplane
I've been in. Take-off's are easy, and landings, both three-point and wheel,
are non-events. Things happen a little slower in it, so you've got extra
brain-bytes to work the details.
I did ground-loop it once. I got cocky, and was playing a little. It started
bouncing and I let it get sideways. Like any tail-dragger, once it goes,
it's gone. No damage, save my ego. Those who have, and those who will...
If I can help further, let me know. If you've never had a Kfox before,
you're really going to enjoy it.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Laundy
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
I have just purchased a Kitfox 3 with Rotax 582, the aircraft has done 600
hours and the engine 400 hours. I will be collecting it in a couple of
weeks, and the owner will give me a check out.
I would greatly appreciate any tips you guys can give me about any
weaknesses to look for in the airframe or engine. Also I would like to know
of any handling vices anyone has experienced. In particular are there any
handling problems with the flaperons? I have not flown such a system before.
I will most likely be operating into fairly short farm strips, so the slow
speed handling techniques are of particular interest.
Also I have not used a Rotax 582 before, any tips out there as to best way
to start it, and to operate it for maximum longevity.
I have a fair bit of flying under my belt (15000hrs) but much of it was in
the RAF and then on Boeings. Light aircraft around 900 hrs mostly tail
draggers.
You are the guys with the real experience of the Kitfox, and I will
greatly appreciate any advice.
Thanks
Mike Laundy
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Spider Tank position |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: wwillyard@aol.com
Colin, here is a link to my construction photos. I don't know if there is anything
there that will help you, but I remember have the same challenge as my Classic
IV kit was received in '94 as well.
Bill W.
Classic IV, 912ul
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Durey <colin@ptclhk.com>
Sent: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:44:12 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Spider Tank position
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
Hi Guys!
I've finally mounted the engine on my KF4 and am starting to fit bits to
it. Looking at the manual ('94 vintage), the pictures are both sparse and
fuzzy, so it makes it a bit hard to follow in places.
I am currently working on re-mounting the spider tank. The instructions
say to mount it as far to the right as possible, and an obvious caveat to
this is the likely conflict with the carb-heat box which needs to be in
the same general vicinity.
Does anyone have nice clear pictures of their installed / being installed
spider tank on a 912 that I can use for reference? Actually, pictures of
the whole engine install, or parts thereof, will be very usefull.
(Don't forget that the pictures will need to be upside down for me to be
able to read them properly, 'cause Sydney is in the southern hemisphere
:-))
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney
+61-418-677073 (M)
+61-2-945466162 (F)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Spider Tank position |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: wwillyard@aol.com
Sorry I forgot to include the link:
http://eaa145.org/kitfox.html
Colin, here is a link to my construction photos. I don't know if there is anything
there that will help you, but I remember have the same challenge as my Classic
IV kit was received in '94 as well.
Bill W.
Classic IV, 912ul
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Durey <colin@ptclhk.com>
Sent: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:44:12 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Spider Tank position
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
Hi Guys!
I've finally mounted the engine on my KF4 and am starting to fit bits to
it. Looking at the manual ('94 vintage), the pictures are both sparse and
fuzzy, so it makes it a bit hard to follow in places.
I am currently working on re-mounting the spider tank. The instructions
say to mount it as far to the right as possible, and an obvious caveat to
this is the likely conflict with the carb-heat box which needs to be in
the same general vicinity.
Does anyone have nice clear pictures of their installed / being installed
spider tank on a 912 that I can use for reference? Actually, pictures of
the whole engine install, or parts thereof, will be very usefull.
(Don't forget that the pictures will need to be upside down for me to be
able to read them properly, 'cause Sydney is in the southern hemisphere
:-))
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney
+61-418-677073 (M)
+61-2-945466162 (F)
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Why do all of your posts "print double" ? Every message that I've got
from you shows the same message twice on the same page. Just thought
you'd like to know, and does everybody else see them this way or is it
just me?
Lynn
do not archive
On Wednesday, March 8, 2006, at 02:09 AM, debrun26@juno.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "debrun26@juno.com"
> <debrun26@juno.com>
>
> 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your
> kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries
> me cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a
> kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs total time for sale here for $32,000.
> Does this sound like a fare deal.
>
>
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>
> 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your
> kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me
> cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a
> kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total timefor sale here for $32,000. Does
> this sound like a fare deal.
>
>
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>
>
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
I think it's a setting the email program that is sending both plain text
and html. Then the Matronics List program strips the html and we see 2
plain text forms of the message. Does that sound correct to our list
janitors?
Lynn will need to change the settings to just send plain text for email
to this list. Ask if you need help finding this.
Happens to the best of us sometimes,
Rex
Colorado
Lynn Matteson wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>Why do all of your posts "print double" ? Every message that I've got
>from you shows the same message twice on the same page. Just thought
>you'd like to know, and does everybody else see them this way or is it
>just me?
>
>Lynn
>do not archive
>
>On Wednesday, March 8, 2006, at 02:09 AM, debrun26@juno.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "debrun26@juno.com"
>><debrun26@juno.com>
>>
>>6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your
>>kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries
>>me cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a
>>kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs total time for sale here for $32,000.
>>Does this sound like a fare deal.
>>
>>
>>Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>>
>>6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your
>>kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me
>>cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a
>>kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total timefor sale here for $32,000. Does
>>this sound like a fare deal.
>>
>>
>>
>>Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Karla and Rex Hefferan
Gypsy Bee Innkeepers
719-651-5198 or 719-651-9192
Message 8
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| Subject: | Spider Tank pics |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
Thanks Guys,
I really appreciate the ready response.
Someone mentioned that very few have the carb-Heat box fitted, in the US.
While its not mandatory here, I think I'd feel more comfortable with it
fitted. How great is the difference in performance between having it
fitted and not fitted?
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney
+61-418-677073 (M)
+61-2-945466162 (F)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Just bought my first Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Hi Mike.
Sound advice from Bradley. I'm presently learning about those SI's myself in
regard to my old C gearbox. Only proviso I would add to Bradley's comment about
"things happening a little slower. . ." is that this doesn't apply to take
offs. When you put the power to 'er, she's off right now so be ready to fly.
You probably won't find an instructor with Kitfox time to check you out so, if
you can find one, get a copy of the book by Ed Downs on how to fly a kitfox.
I found it very helpful.
Bradley M Webb <bmwebb@cox.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
Mike,
How old is the airframe?
Let me say I've read the books, but I have never been around a Kfox before.
My tail-dragger time was a whole 2 hours in a Champ for my sign-off. I've
got a lot of time, but all in certified planes. Sounds kind of like your
situation.
My airplane was in sad shape, systems-wise. But that's my forte, and
electrical and fuel can be fixed cheaply and easily. Airframe issues are
another matter. My basic airframe was sound, and the fabric was good (save
for a couple places).
The first thing I would look at is corrosion. My Model 2 was built in 91,
and there was the smallest bit of corrosion where the coolant had leaked,
and not taken care of.
Check the control rods under the seat, as my seat rested right on them. I
can give you a fix if you find a problem. Also spend time replacing the wing
bolts and the control system bolts. Cheap insurance.
Check to make sure that all SB's and SI's are complied with. If not, decide
whether you can do it yourself, or why it wasn't done. Mine were selectively
ignored. Some work involved, but nothing major.
If you wish, you can give me a call on the Rotax. Like you, I have lots of
time, but none behind the 582. It was a learning experience, but I'm getting
used to it. It is a little different, both in caring and flying. To start
it, pull the choke, light the ignition, and hit the start. It should fire up
in a second or so. Mine sat for 4 months, and fired right up. Basic fuel and
air stuff. Keep the temps within Rotax limits, and pay attention to the
details. It will be fine.
I have found the KFox to be the most forgiving and easy landing airplane
I've been in. Take-off's are easy, and landings, both three-point and wheel,
are non-events. Things happen a little slower in it, so you've got extra
brain-bytes to work the details.
I did ground-loop it once. I got cocky, and was playing a little. It started
bouncing and I let it get sideways. Like any tail-dragger, once it goes,
it's gone. No damage, save my ego. Those who have, and those who will...
If I can help further, let me know. If you've never had a Kfox before,
you're really going to enjoy it.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Laundy
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy
I have just purchased a Kitfox 3 with Rotax 582, the aircraft has done 600
hours and the engine 400 hours. I will be collecting it in a couple of
weeks, and the owner will give me a check out.
I would greatly appreciate any tips you guys can give me about any
weaknesses to look for in the airframe or engine. Also I would like to know
of any handling vices anyone has experienced. In particular are there any
handling problems with the flaperons? I have not flown such a system before.
I will most likely be operating into fairly short farm strips, so the slow
speed handling techniques are of particular interest.
Also I have not used a Rotax 582 before, any tips out there as to best way
to start it, and to operate it for maximum longevity.
I have a fair bit of flying under my belt (15000hrs) but much of it was in
the RAF and then on Boeings. Light aircraft around 900 hrs mostly tail
draggers.
You are the guys with the real experience of the Kitfox, and I will
greatly appreciate any advice.
Thanks
Mike Laundy
---------------------------------
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
At the risk of hurting someone's feelings - if so ,sorry. Numbers of hours
in nose draggers has no relationship to landing a taildragger especially if
the hours are in heavy metal. You could have a million and still have
difficulty transitioning to tailwheel. It's not even apples and oranges -
more like watermellons and bannanas. My friend that flys a Skylane says he
never touches the rudder pedals. In a tail wheel airplane the rudder pedals
are primary controls in take off and landing in a tail dragger. It would be
fun to watch him in the early stages of transition training. I learned in
a Cessna 170-B - a tail wheel Cessna for those really new to flying. And
went through a Citabria then to my Kitfox with no problems.
Consider that in the old days every pilot learned in a tail wheel airplane.
For those that are having real problems in that transition, check the wheel
alignment. A subject discussed at length on the list. Significant
unrecognized toe in has discouraged lots of folks and has resulted in
perfectly good - otherwise - Kitfoxes being on the market.
In my opinion a Kitfox would be a perfectly fine airplane for primary
training and $32,000 for a nice clean Model IV with a R-912 is, also in my
opinion, right in the ball park. I happen to own one and that figure is
displayed on my insurance policy
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <debrun26@juno.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Member
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "debrun26@juno.com" <debrun26@juno.com>
>
> 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox
> and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it
> ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912 UL
> with 100hrs total time for sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a
> fare deal.
>
>
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>
> 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox
> and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it
> ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912UL
> with 100hrs total timefor sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a
> fare deal.
>
>
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Spider Tank pics |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Colin, If you fit the heat box you will appreciate it being there. For
this reason. It is my understanding that the only true evidence of carb
ice is with the heat box attached. This is due to the cold inductaion air
from the forward facing intake. The only reported carb ice issues have been
with the systerm on the airplane. With out it, the air is preheated as the
induction is at the carburetors - in the back of the engine compartment. At
first glance it would seem that warm air at the carbs would degrade
performance, but the absence of all the restrictions in the piping and box
more than overcomes the warm air loss.
There have been a couple of instances of people, without the heat box,
feeling fleeting roughness - like a burp - that they have attributed to ice.
That is the whole of it and my guess is that with the thousands of hours
cumulative that have been flown it is a proven concept. I have 760 hours
and have flown in all sorts of conditions and have had no problems
what-so-ever.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:54 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spider Tank pics
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
>
> Thanks Guys,
>
> I really appreciate the ready response.
>
> Someone mentioned that very few have the carb-Heat box fitted, in the US.
> While its not mandatory here, I think I'd feel more comfortable with it
> fitted. How great is the difference in performance between having it
> fitted and not fitted?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Colin Durey
> Sydney
> +61-418-677073 (M)
> +61-2-945466162 (F)
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
> fly before buy. I have 6000 hours an this is the most difficult airplane for
landings i ever flew.
Wow. Really? What model are you flying? I have a model 4 and it did take me a little
while to make the transition. But now that I've done it, I'm glad I stuck
with it. Many of my landings are still a little squirrelly but I find it much
easier to control my descent than a 172.
To be honest though, a Kitfox really isn't the cheapest way to go. You can pick
up an old 152 or a Aircoupe for much less and they're so easy to fly that you
will get through your training much faster. Also, if you plan on getting insurance
for your plane, youre in for a shock. Insurance companies don't like low
time pilots flying tail draggers.
I went with a Kitfox for the performance. For my purposes it is the ideal combination
of short field performance while still having enough speed to actually
go somewhere. I want to one day land it in my own 1200ft grass strip. If it werent
for that, I would have started out with something a little more tame.
My advice. Get a plane with training wheels (aka trycicle) get through your training,
build some time then sell it and buy the Kitfox :-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20345#20345
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Depending on the panel, condition, etc it is in the ballpark.
Hard to comment on the difficult nature of the Kitfox in landing. I started in
Supercubs and at about 15 hours transition in to the Kitfox. The move was not
difficult and it was after soloing in the S'cub. The RV 9 lands like a Kitfox,
not necessarily difficult, just different..."fly it until it is tied down".
Look for an ag pilot/cfi. It worked for me. He was 35 miles away at a small rural
airport. The local, building time, instuctors were not tail wheel qualified.
John Kerr
900 hour tail wheel
25 hour tricycle gear
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "debrun26@juno.com" <debrun26@juno.com>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "debrun26@juno.com"
>
> 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox and
> does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it ruins my
> cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs
> total time for sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a fare deal.
>
>
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>
> 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox and
> does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it ruins my
> cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total
> timefor sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a fare deal.
>
>
>
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Depending on the panel, condition, etc it is in the ballpark.
Hard to comment on the difficult nature of the Kitfox in landing. I started in
Supercubs and at about 15 hours transition in to the Kitfox. The move was not
difficult and it was after soloing in the S'cub. The RV 9 lands like a Kitfox,
not necessarily difficult, just different..."fly it until it is tied down".
Look for an ag pilot/cfi. It worked for me. He was 35 miles away at a small rural
airport. The local, building time, instuctors were not tail wheel qualified.
John Kerr
900 hour tail wheel
25 hour tricycle gear
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "debrun26@juno.com" debrun26@juno.com
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "debrun26@juno.com" <DEBRUN26@JUNO.COM>
6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox and
does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it ruins my
cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs
total time for sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a fare deal.
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox and
does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it ruins my
cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total
tim
efor sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a fare deal.
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
============
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Most of my time has been on Tail draggers and the hardest thing I found
about a round cowl Kitfox was knowing when the plane was actually aligned
with the runway. The round cowl is extremely misleading as it tapers sharply
in towards the nose. This used to confuse me as I was lining the front side
of the plane with the centerline of the run way which actually meant I was
not parallel with the runway. The plane would of course squirrel all over
the place as I countered with aileron to try and fix the problem (both
landing and taking off).
This is talked about in Ed Down's "how to fly a Kitfox" book and once I
understood the issue all problems went away. I often take off and land on
bush strips that are only 12Ft wide and CIGVW stays as straight as an arrow.
GaryA
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:47 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New Member
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
> fly before buy. I have 6000 hours an this is the most difficult airplane
for landings i ever flew.
Wow. Really? What model are you flying? I have a model 4 and it did take me
a little while to make the transition. But now that I've done it, I'm glad I
stuck with it. Many of my landings are still a little squirrelly but I find
it much easier to control my descent than a 172.
To be honest though, a Kitfox really isn't the cheapest way to go. You can
pick up an old 152 or a Aircoupe for much less and they're so easy to fly
that you will get through your training much faster. Also, if you plan on
getting insurance for your plane, youre in for a shock. Insurance companies
don't like low time pilots flying tail draggers.
I went with a Kitfox for the performance. For my purposes it is the ideal
combination of short field performance while still having enough speed to
actually go somewhere. I want to one day land it in my own 1200ft grass
strip. If it werent for that, I would have started out with something a
little more tame.
My advice. Get a plane with training wheels (aka trycicle) get through your
training, build some time then sell it and buy the Kitfox :-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20345#20345
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Spider Tank pics |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I saw 300 rpm increase when removal of the carb heat was completed. The only reported
carb ice that I have heard of were on 912's with carb heat box out in
the cold incoming air. Once it is removed the induction is from the protected
air of the engine compartment, right back by the firewall.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey"
>
> Thanks Guys,
>
> I really appreciate the ready response.
>
> Someone mentioned that very few have the carb-Heat box fitted, in the US.
> While its not mandatory here, I think I'd feel more comfortable with it
> fitted. How great is the difference in performance between having it
> fitted and not fitted?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Colin Durey
> Sydney
> +61-418-677073 (M)
> +61-2-945466162 (F)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I saw 300 rpm increase when removal of the carb heat was completed. The only reported
carb ice that I have heard of were on 912's with carb heat box out in the
cold incoming air. Once it is removed the induction is from the protected air
of the engine compartment, right back by the firewall.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Colin Durey" colin@ptclhk.com
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <COLIN@PTCLHK.COM>
Thanks Guys,
I really appreciate the ready response.
Someone mentioned that very few have the carb-Heat box fitted, in the US.
While its not mandatory here, I think I'd feel more comfortable with it
fitted. How great is the difference in performance between having it
fitted and not fitted?
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Spider Tank pics |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
I have flown over 1100 hours with no problem without the carb heat. I am
right on the ocean and icing conditions would be max. Anyone who would like
a nice carb heat box, with all new hoses, contact me and pay shipping and
its yours. Clint
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spider Tank pics
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Colin, If you fit the heat box you will appreciate it being there. For
this reason. It is my understanding that the only true evidence of carb
ice is with the heat box attached. This is due to the cold inductaion air
from the forward facing intake. The only reported carb ice issues have been
with the systerm on the airplane. With out it, the air is preheated as the
induction is at the carburetors - in the back of the engine compartment. At
first glance it would seem that warm air at the carbs would degrade
performance, but the absence of all the restrictions in the piping and box
more than overcomes the warm air loss.
There have been a couple of instances of people, without the heat box,
feeling fleeting roughness - like a burp - that they have attributed to ice.
That is the whole of it and my guess is that with the thousands of hours
cumulative that have been flown it is a proven concept. I have 760 hours
and have flown in all sorts of conditions and have had no problems
what-so-ever.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:54 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spider Tank pics
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
>
> Thanks Guys,
>
> I really appreciate the ready response.
>
> Someone mentioned that very few have the carb-Heat box fitted, in the US.
> While its not mandatory here, I think I'd feel more comfortable with it
> fitted. How great is the difference in performance between having it
> fitted and not fitted?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Colin Durey
> Sydney
> +61-418-677073 (M)
> +61-2-945466162 (F)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | 912 Spider Tank position |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Colin,
If you can eliminate the carb heat box you may want to consider it. Most
have found it is not necessary and I believe there are some better ways if
it is necessary. Also, I know of one individual that had some of the
internal hardware (washer) get ingested through the intake. Not a good
thing.
I'll see if I have some photos.. I'll flip them over for you...:)
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Colin Durey
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 4:44 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Spider Tank position
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
Hi Guys!
I've finally mounted the engine on my KF4 and am starting to fit bits to
it. Looking at the manual ('94 vintage), the pictures are both sparse and
fuzzy, so it makes it a bit hard to follow in places.
I am currently working on re-mounting the spider tank. The instructions
say to mount it as far to the right as possible, and an obvious caveat to
this is the likely conflict with the carb-heat box which needs to be in
the same general vicinity.
Does anyone have nice clear pictures of their installed / being installed
spider tank on a 912 that I can use for reference? Actually, pictures of
the whole engine install, or parts thereof, will be very usefull.
(Don't forget that the pictures will need to be upside down for me to be
able to read them properly, 'cause Sydney is in the southern hemisphere
:-))
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney
+61-418-677073 (M)
+61-2-945466162 (F)
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Ditto
Ditto
Ron NB Or
>From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Member
>Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:18:56 -0500
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>Why do all of your posts "print double" ? Every message that I've got
>from you shows the same message twice on the same page. Just thought
>you'd like to know, and does everybody else see them this way or is it
>just me?
>
>Lynn
>do not archive
>
>On Wednesday, March 8, 2006, at 02:09 AM, debrun26@juno.com wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "debrun26@juno.com"
> > <debrun26@juno.com>
> >
> > 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your
> > kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries
> > me cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a
> > kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs total time for sale here for $32,000.
> > Does this sound like a fare deal.
> >
> >
> > Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
> >
> > 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your
> > kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me
> > cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a
> > kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total timefor sale here for $32,000. Does
> > this sound like a fare deal.
> >
> >
> >
> > Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
I think it depends a LOT on which model....
I have flown a 2, 4 and 5. The 2, in my opinion, requires a lot more skill
than a 5, especially on pavement, throw in a crosswind...... you better be
current in tail-dragger techniques
The later models have more directional stability both on ground and in air,
by a lot.
Currently, I have about 300 hours in a KF2. Can, anyone learn to fly it, of
course. One of the great attributes of the KF2 is the very powerful rudder
and ailerons. I have landed in very strong gusty crosswinds, just do it by
the book....... sure its a challenge, but that's also means rewarding. I
also fly a Warrior 2, totally different challenges..... but from a stick and
rudder point of view, I LOVE the Kitfox. If was too easy, it wouldn't be
fun....
If I was to recommend, get training, get current, choose your days and use
grass at first, build skills of time...
Dave Patrick KF 2
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
I think Rex is correct about the double emails.
It is the email settings on his email program. Or perhaps he is using a web
interface for sending email, as I see an ad for Juno within the text. Either
way, the Matronics software strips off the HTML and leaves just the text.
To fix, just have your email settings set to send the list "plain text"
instead of HTML.
Not a biggie, but does take up unnecessary space.
Don Pearsall
List Janitor
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Member
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Why do all of your posts "print double" ? Every message that I've got
from you shows the same message twice on the same page. Just thought
you'd like to know, and does everybody else see them this way or is it
just me?
Lynn
do not archive
On Wednesday, March 8, 2006, at 02:09 AM, debrun26@juno.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "debrun26@juno.com"
> <debrun26@juno.com>
>
> 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your
> kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries
> me cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a
> kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs total time for sale here for $32,000.
> Does this sound like a fare deal.
>
>
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>
> 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your
> kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me
> cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a
> kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total timefor sale here for $32,000. Does
> this sound like a fare deal.
>
>
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>fly before buy. I have 6000 hours an this is the most difficult
>airplane for landings i ever flew.
I'm sure it's all a matter of personal experience, but the
taildragger Kitfoxes I've flown were a lot easier to land than the
Aeronca Chief I got my tailwheel endorsement in. Of course, we later
discovered that the rudder was mis-rigged on the Chief and only had
about 1/2 the normal travel in one direction...
People can joke about "training wheels" but my attitude about landing
gear is: I don't want a plane that's unstable in the air, why would I
want it to be unstable on the ground? Fire away, I have my
flame-vest donned :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 22
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Welcome to the List... Get ready to have lots of fun.. just remember.. "It's
not how fast you get there.. it's how fun you get there !"
Snip- Consider that in the old days every pilot learned in a tail wheel
airplane-
This has been an argument of mine for a lot of years... Heck early Tail
Draggers were just that...draggers they had a skid on the back not a wheel.
We had a program when I was teaching primary more often, you started your
lessons in a Champ and pretty much worked up to the solo stage. Once soloed
we transitioned over to the C150.. Now, while the Kitfox is no Champ,
learning to fly in a Kitfox is not as bad as some will make it out to be.
DO NOT GET PRE-CONCEIVED NOTIONS about someone else's issues. I have taught
super students that could solo in 4 hours while others took more. Sometimes
students bring bad habits with them and don't even know it.
Now... I do not agree that it is watermelons and bananas... typically the
instructors make it that way. If one is taught correctly (keyword) in the
tri-gear then the transition is not that difficult but if they fly for
several years they usually create bad habits... (feet flat on the floor)
That is what makes the transitions more difficult... No question that
initial training in a tail wheel is beneficial.
Lets consider something else... The instructor pool... Some students learn
to fly in spite of their instructor... Teachers can only teach what they
know and most new instructors today have never even been in a tail wheel..
let alone have much experience in them. Heck even for the instructor that
wants to really sink his/her teeth into the tail wheel will have a hard time
finding one to rent. We can thank the insurance companies for that.
Something else to consider.... And rarely talked about or thought about...
What Specific Model Kitfox ?
Kitfox Model 1, 2 or 3 ?
Kitfox IV 1050 or Kitfox IV-1200 or XL or Lite
Kitfox Series 5, 6 or 7
Tube gear or Spring gear
Speedster Wing or Long Wing
When referring to the characteristics of the Kitfox are these important
issues to consider ? You bet they are. Did you know that there is more
adverse yaw in the Kitfox Model IV-1050 then in the Kitfox Model IV-1200 ?
How about that there is more adverse yaw in the most Series 6 then in the
Series 7. The handling is greatly improved from the tube gear to the spring
gear.
One thing to always consider is the insurance... It is more expensive to
insure a tail dragger then a tri-gear.
Due to insurance reasons (training aircraft are very expensive) we do not
have a tail dragger yet to train with... We hope to find a Model IV that we
can use for training.. Before anyone jumps on that issue.. we have a waiver
to offer training in a Kitfox.. just waiting for the right aircraft.
Bottom Line... Find a QUALIFIED instructor and get ready to have lots of
fun... wish I had the time to come to Alaska for awhile.. I would gladly
fly with you. Values are very condition based... Is it a IV-1200 or 1050 ?
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
Message 23
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "debrun26@juno.com" <debrun26@juno.com>
WOW, your reply was the most encouraging of all. I don't know which kitfox it
is but it has a gross weight of 1200lbs... so if the 1200 comes from the gross
weight, then it's a 1200. Please keep in touch and plan your trip to Ak and
you can teach me to be a pro pilot. I don't know much terminology since I don't
even start ground school till summer. I REEEEALY want to get good fast on
the tail dragger since I want to fy on skiis next winter. I've got the bird
hunting bug and want to take my springer spaniel and wife to find birds each Saturday
next winter. It will be a 100-130 mile flight, landing on snow. This
kitfox is for sale for $32,000. Is this fare or should I offer in the $25,000
range? It has 100hrs total time. Thanks, Layne
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
WOW, your reply was the most encouraging of all. I don't know which kitfox it is
but it has a gross weight of 1200lbs... so if the 1200 comes from the gross
weight, then it's a 1200. Please keep in touch and plan your trip to Ak and you
can teach me to be a pro pilot. I don't know much terminology since I don't
even start ground school till summer. IREEEEALY want to get good fast on the tail
dragger since I want to fy on skiis next winter. I've got the bird hunting
bug and want to take my springer spaniel and wife to find birds each Saturday
next winter. It will be a 100-130 mile flight, landing on snow.This kitfox is
for sale for $32,000. Is this fare or should I offer in the $25,000 range? It
has 100hrs total time. Thanks, Layne
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON GOGUEN" <mino2@verizon.net>
John,
Great post and lots of excellent information for the new member.
Fly safe,
Nelson
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: New Member
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Welcome to the List... Get ready to have lots of fun.. just remember..
> "It's
> not how fast you get there.. it's how fun you get there !"
>
> Snip- Consider that in the old days every pilot learned in a tail wheel
> airplane-
>
> This has been an argument of mine for a lot of years... Heck early Tail
> Draggers were just that...draggers they had a skid on the back not a
> wheel.
> We had a program when I was teaching primary more often, you started your
> lessons in a Champ and pretty much worked up to the solo stage. Once
> soloed
> we transitioned over to the C150.. Now, while the Kitfox is no Champ,
> learning to fly in a Kitfox is not as bad as some will make it out to be.
> DO NOT GET PRE-CONCEIVED NOTIONS about someone else's issues. I have
> taught
> super students that could solo in 4 hours while others took more.
> Sometimes
> students bring bad habits with them and don't even know it.
>
> Now... I do not agree that it is watermelons and bananas... typically the
> instructors make it that way. If one is taught correctly (keyword) in the
> tri-gear then the transition is not that difficult but if they fly for
> several years they usually create bad habits... (feet flat on the floor)
> That is what makes the transitions more difficult... No question that
> initial training in a tail wheel is beneficial.
>
> Lets consider something else... The instructor pool... Some students learn
> to fly in spite of their instructor... Teachers can only teach what they
> know and most new instructors today have never even been in a tail wheel..
> let alone have much experience in them. Heck even for the instructor that
> wants to really sink his/her teeth into the tail wheel will have a hard
> time
> finding one to rent. We can thank the insurance companies for that.
>
> Something else to consider.... And rarely talked about or thought about...
> What Specific Model Kitfox ?
>
> Kitfox Model 1, 2 or 3 ?
> Kitfox IV 1050 or Kitfox IV-1200 or XL or Lite
> Kitfox Series 5, 6 or 7
> Tube gear or Spring gear
> Speedster Wing or Long Wing
>
> When referring to the characteristics of the Kitfox are these important
> issues to consider ? You bet they are. Did you know that there is more
> adverse yaw in the Kitfox Model IV-1050 then in the Kitfox Model IV-1200 ?
> How about that there is more adverse yaw in the most Series 6 then in the
> Series 7. The handling is greatly improved from the tube gear to the
> spring
> gear.
>
> One thing to always consider is the insurance... It is more expensive to
> insure a tail dragger then a tri-gear.
>
> Due to insurance reasons (training aircraft are very expensive) we do not
> have a tail dragger yet to train with... We hope to find a Model IV that
> we
> can use for training.. Before anyone jumps on that issue.. we have a
> waiver
> to offer training in a Kitfox.. just waiting for the right aircraft.
>
> Bottom Line... Find a QUALIFIED instructor and get ready to have lots of
> fun... wish I had the time to come to Alaska for awhile.. I would gladly
> fly with you. Values are very condition based... Is it a IV-1200 or 1050
> ?
>
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
>
>
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
For the new members that are thinking of going tail wheel, I have posted
the information on the Sportflight sight that my brother gives his
students when he is teaching tail wheel in his Cessna 140. I think it is
very good. He has something like 5000 hours of instructor time, so he
has some idea what he is talking about. I started flying a Kitfox tail
wheel myself after flying the Cessna 140, and felt comfortable after 3
landings. But I did have several hundred hours in a tri-gear Kitfox. I
did not see much difference in difficulty in the 140 and my series 7.
Grass and dirt are a piece of cake, pavement makes you sit up and pay
attention a little more. If you were taught to kick the rudders or flew
a slower reacting plane you may need to fly in your socks for a while as
you have to treat her like a lady and gently dance with her, but if you
do she will respond. The key is a good instructor, and they can be hard
to fine. People are willing to pay $75 an hour for someone to work on
their car, but complain about $40 an hour for a professional flight
instructor. Supply and demand. They can't supply their families what
they need on what an instructor makes, and their spouse demands they get
a job that pays.
jdmcbean wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
>Welcome to the List... Get ready to have lots of fun.. just remember.. "It's
>not how fast you get there.. it's how fun you get there !"
>
>Snip- Consider that in the old days every pilot learned in a tail wheel
>airplane-
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Just bought my first Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
Many thanks for your advice guys. I will post my first impressions when I fly
it for the first time in a couple of weeks.
The airframe is 10 years old, I have had it checked by a couple of engineer buddies,
and it will have a new Permit to Fly, so that should highlight any issues
about SIs being complied with.
Does anyone out there know where I can get a copy of Ed Downs' book on how to
fly a Kitfox.
Mike
Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
Hi Mike.
Sound advice from Bradley. I'm presently learning about those SI's myself in regard
to my old C gearbox. Only proviso I would add to Bradley's comment about
"things happening a little slower. . ." is that this doesn't apply to take offs.
When you put the power to 'er, she's off right now so be ready to fly.
You probably won't find an instructor with Kitfox time to check you out so, if
you can find one, get a copy of the book by Ed Downs on how to fly a kitfox. I
found it very helpful.
Bradley M Webb wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
Mike,
How old is the airframe?
Let me say I've read the books, but I have never been around a Kfox before.
My tail-dragger time was a whole 2 hours in a Champ for my sign-off. I've
got a lot of time, but all in certified planes. Sounds kind of like your
situation.
My airplane was in sad shape, systems-wise. But that's my forte, and
electrical and fuel can be fixed cheaply and easily. Airframe issues are
another matter. My basic airframe was sound, and the fabric was good (save
for a couple places).
The first thing I would look at is corrosion. My Model 2 was built in 91,
and there was the smallest bit of corrosion where the coolant had leaked,
and not taken care of.
Check the control rods under the seat, as my seat rested right on them. I
can give you a fix if you find a problem. Also spend time replacing the wing
bolts and the control system bolts. Cheap insurance.
Check to make sure that all SB's and SI's are complied with. If not, decide
whether you can do it yourself, or why it wasn't done. Mine were selectively
ignored. Some work involved, but nothing major.
If you wish, you can give me a call on the Rotax. Like you, I have lots of
time, but none behind the 582. It was a learning experience, but I'm getting
used to it. It is a little different, both in caring and flying. To start
it, pull the choke, light the ignition, and hit the start. It should fire up
in a second or so. Mine sat for 4 months, and fired right up. Basic fuel and
air stuff. Keep the temps within Rotax limits, and pay attention to the
details. It will be fine.
I have found the KFox to be the most forgiving and easy landing airplane
I've been in. Take-off's are easy, and landings, both three-point and wheel,
are non-events. Things happen a little slower in it, so you've got extra
brain-bytes to work the details.
I did ground-loop it once. I got cocky, and was playing a little. It started
bouncing and I let it get sideways. Like any tail-dragger, once it goes,
it's gone. No damage, save my ego. Those who have, and those who will...
If I can help further, let me know. If you've never had a Kfox before,
you're really going to enjoy it.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Laundy
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy
I have just purchased a Kitfox 3 with Rotax 582, the aircraft has done 600
hours and the engine 400 hours. I will be collecting it in a couple of
weeks, and the owner will give me a check out.
I would greatly appreciate any tips you guys can give me about any
weaknesses to look for in the airframe or engine. Also I would like to know
of any handling vices anyone has experienced. In particular are there any
handling problems with the flaperons? I have not flown such a system before.
I will most likely be operating into fairly short farm strips, so the slow
speed handling techniques are of particular interest.
Also I have not used a Rotax 582 before, any tips out there as to best way
to start it, and to operate it for maximum longevity.
I have a fair bit of flying under my belt (15000hrs) but much of it was in
the RAF and then on Boeings. Light aircraft around 900 hrs mostly tail
draggers.
You are the guys with the real experience of the Kitfox, and I will
greatly appreciate any advice.
Thanks
Mike Laundy
---------------------------------
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
---------------------------------
Message 27
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
You remind me of me 45 years ago, Only diference was the "birds" we hunted on a
saturday night were not the feathered ones!
Seriously, I learned to fly on taildraggers, and once I overcame the kangeroo
landings it was great fun, and also made my later transition to jet trainers
in the RAF pretty straight forward (landings anyway).
Just be careful not to run before you can walk, Be absolutely sure in your own
mind your skills are up to it before taking your wife and dog with you, Err
on the side of safety, be very careful of whiteout when landing on snow (makes
judging height real difficult). Have your survival stuff with you, I guess Alaska
in winter can be pretty harsh. Of course wives are easy to come by, but a
good Springer Spaniel !!!
Fly safe and always within your limits, listen to what more experienced guys
say, and remember its much better to be on the ground wishing you were in the
sky than to be in the sky wishing to be on the ground. Choose your days for the
adventure when the weather is right and enjoy. (I still love it after nearly
half a century of flying).
Mike
"debrun26@juno.com" <debrun26@juno.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "debrun26@juno.com"
WOW, your reply was the most encouraging of all. I don't know which kitfox it is
but it has a gross weight of 1200lbs... so if the 1200 comes from the gross
weight, then it's a 1200. Please keep in touch and plan your trip to Ak and you
can teach me to be a pro pilot. I don't know much terminology since I don't
even start ground school till summer. I REEEEALY want to get good fast on the
tail dragger since I want to fy on skiis next winter. I've got the bird hunting
bug and want to take my springer spaniel and wife to find birds each Saturday
next winter. It will be a 100-130 mile flight, landing on snow. This kitfox
is for sale for $32,000. Is this fare or should I offer in the $25,000 range?
It has 100hrs total time. Thanks, Layne
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
WOW, your reply was the most encouraging of all. I don't know which kitfox it is
but it has a gross weight of 1200lbs... so if the 1200 comes from the gross
weight, then it's a 1200. Please keep in touch and plan your trip to Ak and you
can teach me to be a pro pilot. I don't know much terminology since I don't
even start ground school till summer. IREEEEALY want to get good fast on the tail
dragger since I want to fy on skiis next winter. I've got the bird hunting
bug and want to take my springer spaniel and wife to find birds each Saturday
next winter. It will be a 100-130 mile flight, landing on snow.This kitfox is
for sale for $32,000. Is this fare or should I offer in the $25,000 range? It
has 100hrs total time. Thanks, Layne
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
---------------------------------
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Just bought my first Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Hi Mike,
I have a KF3 w/582 as well...The KF was the first tailwheel I ever flew.
Actually I did all my own tailwheel training at home on MS Flight Simulator
in the Cub, then went up with an instructor for 40 minutes and 7 landings.
Bradley gave you some good advice, but in my opinion the KF is a very
demanding tailwheel. I've flown several (Champ, C170, Waco), and the Kitfox
with the Bungee gear is by far the touchiest - I've also flown the steel
spring and found it to be much more tame. I haven't groundlooped her, but
have come awfully close. When you do go fly for the first time, just expect
to be flying her from the second you start up to the second you shut down.
Ground handling, especially on t/o and landing roll will be a constant dance
on the pedals.
You, though, have much more experience than me! Best of luck, and I hope you
find, as I have, that the Kitfox is the most enjoyable aircraft there is :-)
Andrew
KF3 582
Nashua, NH U.S. of A.
>From: Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
>Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:05:19 +0000 (GMT)
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>Many thanks for your advice guys. I will post my first impressions when I
>fly it for the first time in a couple of weeks.
>
> The airframe is 10 years old, I have had it checked by a couple of
>engineer buddies, and it will have a new Permit to Fly, so that should
>highlight any issues about SIs being complied with.
>
> Does anyone out there know where I can get a copy of Ed Downs' book on
>how to fly a Kitfox.
>
> Mike
>
>Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
>
>Hi Mike.
>
>Sound advice from Bradley. I'm presently learning about those SI's myself
>in regard to my old C gearbox. Only proviso I would add to Bradley's
>comment about "things happening a little slower. . ." is that this doesn't
>apply to take offs. When you put the power to 'er, she's off right now so
>be ready to fly.
>
>You probably won't find an instructor with Kitfox time to check you out so,
>if you can find one, get a copy of the book by Ed Downs on how to fly a
>kitfox. I found it very helpful.
>
>
>Bradley M Webb wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
>
>Mike,
>How old is the airframe?
>
>Let me say I've read the books, but I have never been around a Kfox before.
>My tail-dragger time was a whole 2 hours in a Champ for my sign-off. I've
>got a lot of time, but all in certified planes. Sounds kind of like your
>situation.
>
>My airplane was in sad shape, systems-wise. But that's my forte, and
>electrical and fuel can be fixed cheaply and easily. Airframe issues are
>another matter. My basic airframe was sound, and the fabric was good (save
>for a couple places).
>
>The first thing I would look at is corrosion. My Model 2 was built in 91,
>and there was the smallest bit of corrosion where the coolant had leaked,
>and not taken care of.
>
>Check the control rods under the seat, as my seat rested right on them. I
>can give you a fix if you find a problem. Also spend time replacing the
>wing
>bolts and the control system bolts. Cheap insurance.
>
>Check to make sure that all SB's and SI's are complied with. If not, decide
>whether you can do it yourself, or why it wasn't done. Mine were
>selectively
>ignored. Some work involved, but nothing major.
>
>If you wish, you can give me a call on the Rotax. Like you, I have lots of
>time, but none behind the 582. It was a learning experience, but I'm
>getting
>used to it. It is a little different, both in caring and flying. To start
>it, pull the choke, light the ignition, and hit the start. It should fire
>up
>in a second or so. Mine sat for 4 months, and fired right up. Basic fuel
>and
>air stuff. Keep the temps within Rotax limits, and pay attention to the
>details. It will be fine.
>
>I have found the KFox to be the most forgiving and easy landing airplane
>I've been in. Take-off's are easy, and landings, both three-point and
>wheel,
>are non-events. Things happen a little slower in it, so you've got extra
>brain-bytes to work the details.
>
>I did ground-loop it once. I got cocky, and was playing a little. It
>started
>bouncing and I let it get sideways. Like any tail-dragger, once it goes,
>it's gone. No damage, save my ego. Those who have, and those who will...
>
>If I can help further, let me know. If you've never had a Kfox before,
>you're really going to enjoy it.
>Bradley
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Laundy
>Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:04 AM
>To: Kitfox
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy
>
>I have just purchased a Kitfox 3 with Rotax 582, the aircraft has done 600
>hours and the engine 400 hours. I will be collecting it in a couple of
>weeks, and the owner will give me a check out.
>
>I would greatly appreciate any tips you guys can give me about any
>weaknesses to look for in the airframe or engine. Also I would like to know
>of any handling vices anyone has experienced. In particular are there any
>handling problems with the flaperons? I have not flown such a system
>before.
>I will most likely be operating into fairly short farm strips, so the slow
>speed handling techniques are of particular interest.
>
>Also I have not used a Rotax 582 before, any tips out there as to best way
>to start it, and to operate it for maximum longevity.
>
>I have a fair bit of flying under my belt (15000hrs) but much of it was in
>the RAF and then on Boeings. Light aircraft around 900 hrs mostly tail
>draggers.
>
>You are the guys with the real experience of the Kitfox, and I will
>greatly appreciate any advice.
>
>Thanks
>
>Mike Laundy
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>Marco Menezes
>Model 2 582 N99KX
>
>---------------------------------
>Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
Message 29
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
No Kurt, mine is just a stnd EA81 T EFI model. And yes, that was Sub 4 and
still going I think altho the original brain man behind the heads has left
and gone out on his own. nckm@wave.co.nz was his e-mail last time I
communicated with him. Neil Hintz is his name, very nice but over busy chap.
John
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Intercooler
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi John,
Is that a Sub 4 from Rotor Flight Dynamics, Inc that
you have? They were listed here at Sun&Fun back in
2000 with a complete engine package. They had a
Florida point of contact listed too. Just found them
on Google.
In any case, what is the HP output of your engine?
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Two plug heads are available here in NZ - or were.
>My engine was originally
>EFI so I'm using the original injectors but have a
>Link Electrics ECU. I
>have dual primary ignition into a MSD switcher to
>single secondary. J.
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Intercooler and multiple ignition single plug |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Logan" <michael.logan@cox.net>
That is OK John, the picture has enough information. Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:51 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Intercooler and multiple ignition single plug
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
<janderson412@hotmail.com>
No, just one Michael, I have two ign trigger units in the dist and two
matching coils, the h/t leads out of the coils go to the MSD unit. There is
a picture on my system on sportflight, but if you want some more I can send.
John
From: "Michael Logan" <michael.logan@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Intercooler and multiple ignition single plug
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Logan" <michael.logan@cox.net>
John,
Does that mean you have four MSD switchers?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Intercooler
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
<janderson412@hotmail.com>
Two plug heads are available here in NZ - or were. My engine was originally
EFI so I'm using the original injectors but have a Link Electrics ECU. I
have dual primary ignition into a MSD switcher to single secondary. J.
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Intercooler
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Well that explains it. I can imagine a backfire into
a fuel ladened intercooler could be messy.
Now how do I convert to injected, which I prefer, and
a 2 plug head? $$$$$$
Kurt S.
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yes, you sure are correct here Rick. John A.
>
>From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
>Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:50:13 -0800
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown"
><wingsdown@comcast.net>
>
>Kurt,
>
>To all. This can only be done if the engine is
>injected.
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 1:41 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Intercooler
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
>
>Kurt S. wrote. But now you have to tell us how you
>intercooled the turbo???
>
>Kurt, I sourced a small intercooler off a wee Toyota
>Starlet (New
>Zealand -
>might not be called that in US) and it took very
>little modification to
>fit.
>I sits just under the upper cowl (std 0200 cowl) and
>I have fabricated a
>
>f/glass air shoot to channel air from the front
>inlet to it. John
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Just bought my first Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT@msn.com>
If anyone needs a Kitfox instructor, I have one who lives in the Washington DC
area! He's a CFII and taught me how to fly my model IV with a 912ULS.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Laundy<mailto:mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:05 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk<mailto:mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>>
Many thanks for your advice guys. I will post my first impressions when I fly
it for the first time in a couple of weeks.
The airframe is 10 years old, I have had it checked by a couple of engineer
buddies, and it will have a new Permit to Fly, so that should highlight any issues
about SIs being complied with.
Does anyone out there know where I can get a copy of Ed Downs' book on how
to fly a Kitfox.
Mike
Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com<mailto:msm_9949@yahoo.com>> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
Hi Mike.
Sound advice from Bradley. I'm presently learning about those SI's myself in
regard to my old C gearbox. Only proviso I would add to Bradley's comment about
"things happening a little slower. . ." is that this doesn't apply to take offs.
When you put the power to 'er, she's off right now so be ready to fly.
You probably won't find an instructor with Kitfox time to check you out so, if
you can find one, get a copy of the book by Ed Downs on how to fly a kitfox.
I found it very helpful.
Bradley M Webb wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
Mike,
How old is the airframe?
Let me say I've read the books, but I have never been around a Kfox before.
My tail-dragger time was a whole 2 hours in a Champ for my sign-off. I've
got a lot of time, but all in certified planes. Sounds kind of like your
situation.
My airplane was in sad shape, systems-wise. But that's my forte, and
electrical and fuel can be fixed cheaply and easily. Airframe issues are
another matter. My basic airframe was sound, and the fabric was good (save
for a couple places).
The first thing I would look at is corrosion. My Model 2 was built in 91,
and there was the smallest bit of corrosion where the coolant had leaked,
and not taken care of.
Check the control rods under the seat, as my seat rested right on them. I
can give you a fix if you find a problem. Also spend time replacing the wing
bolts and the control system bolts. Cheap insurance.
Check to make sure that all SB's and SI's are complied with. If not, decide
whether you can do it yourself, or why it wasn't done. Mine were selectively
ignored. Some work involved, but nothing major.
If you wish, you can give me a call on the Rotax. Like you, I have lots of
time, but none behind the 582. It was a learning experience, but I'm getting
used to it. It is a little different, both in caring and flying. To start
it, pull the choke, light the ignition, and hit the start. It should fire up
in a second or so. Mine sat for 4 months, and fired right up. Basic fuel and
air stuff. Keep the temps within Rotax limits, and pay attention to the
details. It will be fine.
I have found the KFox to be the most forgiving and easy landing airplane
I've been in. Take-off's are easy, and landings, both three-point and wheel,
are non-events. Things happen a little slower in it, so you've got extra
brain-bytes to work the details.
I did ground-loop it once. I got cocky, and was playing a little. It started
bouncing and I let it get sideways. Like any tail-dragger, once it goes,
it's gone. No damage, save my ego. Those who have, and those who will...
If I can help further, let me know. If you've never had a Kfox before,
you're really going to enjoy it.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Laundy
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:04 AM
To: Kitfox
Subject: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy
I have just purchased a Kitfox 3 with Rotax 582, the aircraft has done 600
hours and the engine 400 hours. I will be collecting it in a couple of
weeks, and the owner will give me a check out.
I would greatly appreciate any tips you guys can give me about any
weaknesses to look for in the airframe or engine. Also I would like to know
of any handling vices anyone has experienced. In particular are there any
handling problems with the flaperons? I have not flown such a system before.
I will most likely be operating into fairly short farm strips, so the slow
speed handling techniques are of particular interest.
Also I have not used a Rotax 582 before, any tips out there as to best way
to start it, and to operate it for maximum longevity.
I have a fair bit of flying under my belt (15000hrs) but much of it was in
the RAF and then on Boeings. Light aircraft around 900 hrs mostly tail
draggers.
You are the guys with the real experience of the Kitfox, and I will
greatly appreciate any advice.
Thanks
Mike Laundy
---------------------------------
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
---------------------------------
Message 32
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Bill Hammond <kitfox@itsys3.com>
I am forwarding this email to the Kitfox list in case anyone
would like to contact Mr. Pippert directly regarding this trailer
Tim Pippert wrote:
>
> Hi,
> My name is Tim Pippert. I have a Kitfox trailer my father built for his
> series IV Kitfox. I no longer have the aircraft and would like to sell
> the trailer. Would you have any suggestions as to where to advertise it?
> Let me know if you have anyone who would like to buy a trailer.
> Thanks,
> Tim Pippert
> tim_pippert@yahoo.com <mailto:tim_pippert@yahoo.com>
> 706-394-6864
>
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/virusall/*http://communications.yahoo.com/features.php?page=221>
> helps detect nasty viruses!
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Just bought my first Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Marco has it right, takeoff is a little quick, owing to the power of the
582. But I roll mine on a little slowly (!), since my runway is 6000'.
I've heard from a few that the 'fox is demanding. I don't have a lot of
tailwheel time, granted. But I hadn't flown a TD for at least two years, and
then only to get the sign-off. I'm about the least TD qualified person I can
think of. And mine is rather docile. It will hop if I miss the 3 point, but
laterally it really doesn't seem to require much from the rudder. It will
set down just as pretty as you please, and doesn't wander much at all. It is
far more demanding in-flight than on the ground. In the air, it's always
rolling off to one side, or the other. But I understand this to be the
nature of the Model 2, and why they went to a larger rudder. It's ok, just
not Cessna stabile...thank you very much.
Maybe set-ups are different? I have a pronounced wheel toe-in and camber on
my bungee gear, and the solid tail-wheel and HD aluminum bar. My chains are
relatively tight. It will taxi feet-off in calm wind. My first taxi was in
12 knot dead crosswind, and still kept it on the center line, no problem.
Like I said, once it sets, it's there. Not too much dance. At least no more
than the Champ took. I rode a couple times in a Mustang 2, and that thing
will KILL you. Never straight, one or the other. Real PITA.
Mike, too bad you're in the UK. I'd let you learn in mine. I'm a CFI, so I
can even sign it off for you.
To be honest, I have the Kitfox book, and it will do you more good than me.
It is great before that first flight, but then you figure it all out in the
air. How much of a pain is it to send to the UK?
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Matthaey
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
<spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Hi Mike,
I have a KF3 w/582 as well...The KF was the first tailwheel I ever flew.
Actually I did all my own tailwheel training at home on MS Flight Simulator
in the Cub, then went up with an instructor for 40 minutes and 7 landings.
Bradley gave you some good advice, but in my opinion the KF is a very
demanding tailwheel. I've flown several (Champ, C170, Waco), and the Kitfox
with the Bungee gear is by far the touchiest - I've also flown the steel
spring and found it to be much more tame. I haven't groundlooped her, but
have come awfully close. When you do go fly for the first time, just expect
to be flying her from the second you start up to the second you shut down.
Ground handling, especially on t/o and landing roll will be a constant dance
on the pedals.
You, though, have much more experience than me! Best of luck, and I hope you
find, as I have, that the Kitfox is the most enjoyable aircraft there is :-)
Andrew
KF3 582
Nashua, NH U.S. of A.
>From: Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
>Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:05:19 +0000 (GMT)
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>Many thanks for your advice guys. I will post my first impressions when I
>fly it for the first time in a couple of weeks.
>
> The airframe is 10 years old, I have had it checked by a couple of
>engineer buddies, and it will have a new Permit to Fly, so that should
>highlight any issues about SIs being complied with.
>
> Does anyone out there know where I can get a copy of Ed Downs' book on
>how to fly a Kitfox.
>
> Mike
>
>Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
>
>Hi Mike.
>
>Sound advice from Bradley. I'm presently learning about those SI's myself
>in regard to my old C gearbox. Only proviso I would add to Bradley's
>comment about "things happening a little slower. . ." is that this doesn't
>apply to take offs. When you put the power to 'er, she's off right now so
>be ready to fly.
>
>You probably won't find an instructor with Kitfox time to check you out so,
>if you can find one, get a copy of the book by Ed Downs on how to fly a
>kitfox. I found it very helpful.
>
>
>Bradley M Webb wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
>
>Mike,
>How old is the airframe?
>
>Let me say I've read the books, but I have never been around a Kfox before.
>My tail-dragger time was a whole 2 hours in a Champ for my sign-off. I've
>got a lot of time, but all in certified planes. Sounds kind of like your
>situation.
>
>My airplane was in sad shape, systems-wise. But that's my forte, and
>electrical and fuel can be fixed cheaply and easily. Airframe issues are
>another matter. My basic airframe was sound, and the fabric was good (save
>for a couple places).
>
>The first thing I would look at is corrosion. My Model 2 was built in 91,
>and there was the smallest bit of corrosion where the coolant had leaked,
>and not taken care of.
>
>Check the control rods under the seat, as my seat rested right on them. I
>can give you a fix if you find a problem. Also spend time replacing the
>wing
>bolts and the control system bolts. Cheap insurance.
>
>Check to make sure that all SB's and SI's are complied with. If not, decide
>whether you can do it yourself, or why it wasn't done. Mine were
>selectively
>ignored. Some work involved, but nothing major.
>
>If you wish, you can give me a call on the Rotax. Like you, I have lots of
>time, but none behind the 582. It was a learning experience, but I'm
>getting
>used to it. It is a little different, both in caring and flying. To start
>it, pull the choke, light the ignition, and hit the start. It should fire
>up
>in a second or so. Mine sat for 4 months, and fired right up. Basic fuel
>and
>air stuff. Keep the temps within Rotax limits, and pay attention to the
>details. It will be fine.
>
>I have found the KFox to be the most forgiving and easy landing airplane
>I've been in. Take-off's are easy, and landings, both three-point and
>wheel,
>are non-events. Things happen a little slower in it, so you've got extra
>brain-bytes to work the details.
>
>I did ground-loop it once. I got cocky, and was playing a little. It
>started
>bouncing and I let it get sideways. Like any tail-dragger, once it goes,
>it's gone. No damage, save my ego. Those who have, and those who will...
>
>If I can help further, let me know. If you've never had a Kfox before,
>you're really going to enjoy it.
>Bradley
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Laundy
>Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:04 AM
>To: Kitfox
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy
>
>I have just purchased a Kitfox 3 with Rotax 582, the aircraft has done 600
>hours and the engine 400 hours. I will be collecting it in a couple of
>weeks, and the owner will give me a check out.
>
>I would greatly appreciate any tips you guys can give me about any
>weaknesses to look for in the airframe or engine. Also I would like to know
>of any handling vices anyone has experienced. In particular are there any
>handling problems with the flaperons? I have not flown such a system
>before.
>I will most likely be operating into fairly short farm strips, so the slow
>speed handling techniques are of particular interest.
>
>Also I have not used a Rotax 582 before, any tips out there as to best way
>to start it, and to operate it for maximum longevity.
>
>I have a fair bit of flying under my belt (15000hrs) but much of it was in
>the RAF and then on Boeings. Light aircraft around 900 hrs mostly tail
>draggers.
>
>You are the guys with the real experience of the Kitfox, and I will
>greatly appreciate any advice.
>
>Thanks
>
>Mike Laundy
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>Marco Menezes
>Model 2 582 N99KX
>
>---------------------------------
>Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
Message 34
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
John,
I wanted to add in my .02, but you beat me to it.
Good post,
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: New Member
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Welcome to the List... Get ready to have lots of fun.. just remember.. "It's
not how fast you get there.. it's how fun you get there !"
Snip- Consider that in the old days every pilot learned in a tail wheel
airplane-
This has been an argument of mine for a lot of years... Heck early Tail
Draggers were just that...draggers they had a skid on the back not a wheel.
We had a program when I was teaching primary more often, you started your
lessons in a Champ and pretty much worked up to the solo stage. Once soloed
we transitioned over to the C150.. Now, while the Kitfox is no Champ,
learning to fly in a Kitfox is not as bad as some will make it out to be.
DO NOT GET PRE-CONCEIVED NOTIONS about someone else's issues. I have taught
super students that could solo in 4 hours while others took more. Sometimes
students bring bad habits with them and don't even know it.
Now... I do not agree that it is watermelons and bananas... typically the
instructors make it that way. If one is taught correctly (keyword) in the
tri-gear then the transition is not that difficult but if they fly for
several years they usually create bad habits... (feet flat on the floor)
That is what makes the transitions more difficult... No question that
initial training in a tail wheel is beneficial.
Lets consider something else... The instructor pool... Some students learn
to fly in spite of their instructor... Teachers can only teach what they
know and most new instructors today have never even been in a tail wheel..
let alone have much experience in them. Heck even for the instructor that
wants to really sink his/her teeth into the tail wheel will have a hard time
finding one to rent. We can thank the insurance companies for that.
Something else to consider.... And rarely talked about or thought about...
What Specific Model Kitfox ?
Kitfox Model 1, 2 or 3 ?
Kitfox IV 1050 or Kitfox IV-1200 or XL or Lite
Kitfox Series 5, 6 or 7
Tube gear or Spring gear
Speedster Wing or Long Wing
When referring to the characteristics of the Kitfox are these important
issues to consider ? You bet they are. Did you know that there is more
adverse yaw in the Kitfox Model IV-1050 then in the Kitfox Model IV-1200 ?
How about that there is more adverse yaw in the most Series 6 then in the
Series 7. The handling is greatly improved from the tube gear to the spring
gear.
One thing to always consider is the insurance... It is more expensive to
insure a tail dragger then a tri-gear.
Due to insurance reasons (training aircraft are very expensive) we do not
have a tail dragger yet to train with... We hope to find a Model IV that we
can use for training.. Before anyone jumps on that issue.. we have a waiver
to offer training in a Kitfox.. just waiting for the right aircraft.
Bottom Line... Find a QUALIFIED instructor and get ready to have lots of
fun... wish I had the time to come to Alaska for awhile.. I would gladly
fly with you. Values are very condition based... Is it a IV-1200 or 1050 ?
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
Message 35
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
I find it is a likely to become increasingly cumbersome obtaining a
new medical even while my doctors tell me I am quite capable of
operating an aircraft. I also have little interest in operating my
Fox at night. The Sport Pilot route seems to be attractive for
me. I am now 69. I would need to replace my NSI Turbo and CAP and
have the aircraft re-inspected. The following would seem to make
that permissible for Sport Aircraft use.
This may be old news to Kitfox Listers, but it is new to me. I came
across this on the AOPA Web site.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have built or plan on building an experimental amateur-built
aircraft that meets the definition of light sport aircraft (LSA). How
does the sport pilot rule affect me?
* The aircraft remains an experimental amateur-built aircraft.
You cannot change the aircraft airworthiness certificate to SLSA or ELSA.
* You can modify your aircraft (if you're the manufacturer) to
meet the definition of LSA.
You may operate as pilot in command of the aircraft as a light sport
aircraft if you hold a sport pilot certificate or are exercising
sport pilot privileges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Have any of you done this? Any comments? Of course this would put
me back to looking for a new engine.
Jim Crowder
Message 36
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
From what I understand you still can not legally use a Fox under sport
if it has EVER had a listed gross weight over 1320 pounds. This is nuts,
but I don't think it has been changed yet. If anyone knows different we
need to know. The Fox is the perfect sport plane, leave it to the
burrocrats to mess it up.
Jim Crowder wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>
>I find it is a likely to become increasingly cumbersome obtaining a
>new medical even while my doctors tell me I am quite capable of
>operating an aircraft. I also have little interest in operating my
>Fox at night. The Sport Pilot route seems to be attractive for
>me. I am now 69. I would need to replace my NSI Turbo and CAP and
>have the aircraft re-inspected. The following would seem to make
>that permissible for Sport Aircraft use.
>
>This may be old news to Kitfox Listers, but it is new to me. I came
>across this on the AOPA Web site.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I have built or plan on building an experimental amateur-built
>aircraft that meets the definition of light sport aircraft (LSA). How
>does the sport pilot rule affect me?
> * The aircraft remains an experimental amateur-built aircraft.
>You cannot change the aircraft airworthiness certificate to SLSA or ELSA.
> * You can modify your aircraft (if you're the manufacturer) to
>meet the definition of LSA.
>You may operate as pilot in command of the aircraft as a light sport
>aircraft if you hold a sport pilot certificate or are exercising
>sport pilot privileges.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Have any of you done this? Any comments? Of course this would put
>me back to looking for a new engine.
>
>Jim Crowder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Kitfox handling problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I agree with Bradley. Basically, IMO the Kitfox is a very docile handling
airplane. I was a total tail dragger novice when I built and flew my Model
2 many years ago. I made the first flight and had few problems landing or
taking off with it. Crosswinds were no problem (within reason) and taxi was
a non event that quickly became second nature. I think the occasionaly gear
geometry misalignment causes more problems for people than anything else.
Makes 'em squirrely.
After that I built, and am still flying, a S5 that is just as docile.
Speaking on that, the S5, although bigger and heavier, will get in and out
of the same tight spots that the Model 2 did.
Anyway, my point is that I don't agree that the Kitfox is a handful. If
anyone is having problems with unpredictability make sure you check your
gear alignment first thing, because there's a good chance that it may be
contributing to your problems. My opinion is that with the airplane in
level attitude, the gear should be nutral to slightly toed out. Toe in just
exacerbates swerves.
Deke
NE Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:29 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
>
> Marco has it right, takeoff is a little quick, owing to the power of the
> 582. But I roll mine on a little slowly (!), since my runway is 6000'.
>
> I've heard from a few that the 'fox is demanding. I don't have a lot of
> tailwheel time, granted. But I hadn't flown a TD for at least two years,
and
> then only to get the sign-off. I'm about the least TD qualified person I
can
> think of. And mine is rather docile. It will hop if I miss the 3 point,
but
> laterally it really doesn't seem to require much from the rudder. It will
> set down just as pretty as you please, and doesn't wander much at all. It
is
> far more demanding in-flight than on the ground. In the air, it's always
> rolling off to one side, or the other. But I understand this to be the
> nature of the Model 2, and why they went to a larger rudder. It's ok, just
> not Cessna stabile...thank you very much.
>
> Maybe set-ups are different? I have a pronounced wheel toe-in and camber
on
> my bungee gear, and the solid tail-wheel and HD aluminum bar. My chains
are
> relatively tight. It will taxi feet-off in calm wind. My first taxi was in
> 12 knot dead crosswind, and still kept it on the center line, no problem.
> Like I said, once it sets, it's there. Not too much dance. At least no
more
> than the Champ took. I rode a couple times in a Mustang 2, and that thing
> will KILL you. Never straight, one or the other. Real PITA.
>
> Mike, too bad you're in the UK. I'd let you learn in mine. I'm a CFI, so I
> can even sign it off for you.
>
> To be honest, I have the Kitfox book, and it will do you more good than
me.
> It is great before that first flight, but then you figure it all out in
the
> air. How much of a pain is it to send to the UK?
>
> Bradley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Matthaey
> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:41 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
> <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I have a KF3 w/582 as well...The KF was the first tailwheel I ever flew.
> Actually I did all my own tailwheel training at home on MS Flight
Simulator
> in the Cub, then went up with an instructor for 40 minutes and 7 landings.
>
> Bradley gave you some good advice, but in my opinion the KF is a very
> demanding tailwheel. I've flown several (Champ, C170, Waco), and the
Kitfox
> with the Bungee gear is by far the touchiest - I've also flown the steel
> spring and found it to be much more tame. I haven't groundlooped her, but
> have come awfully close. When you do go fly for the first time, just
expect
> to be flying her from the second you start up to the second you shut down.
> Ground handling, especially on t/o and landing roll will be a constant
dance
>
> on the pedals.
>
> You, though, have much more experience than me! Best of luck, and I hope
you
>
> find, as I have, that the Kitfox is the most enjoyable aircraft there is
:-)
>
> Andrew
> KF3 582
> Nashua, NH U.S. of A.
>
>
> >From: Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
> >Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:05:19 +0000 (GMT)
> >
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy
<mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> >Many thanks for your advice guys. I will post my first impressions when
I
> >fly it for the first time in a couple of weeks.
> >
> > The airframe is 10 years old, I have had it checked by a couple of
> >engineer buddies, and it will have a new Permit to Fly, so that should
> >highlight any issues about SIs being complied with.
> >
> > Does anyone out there know where I can get a copy of Ed Downs' book on
> >how to fly a Kitfox.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
> >
> >Hi Mike.
> >
> >Sound advice from Bradley. I'm presently learning about those SI's myself
> >in regard to my old C gearbox. Only proviso I would add to Bradley's
> >comment about "things happening a little slower. . ." is that this
doesn't
> >apply to take offs. When you put the power to 'er, she's off right now so
> >be ready to fly.
> >
> >You probably won't find an instructor with Kitfox time to check you out
so,
>
> >if you can find one, get a copy of the book by Ed Downs on how to fly a
> >kitfox. I found it very helpful.
> >
> >
> >
> >Bradley M Webb wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
> >
> >Mike,
> >How old is the airframe?
> >
> >Let me say I've read the books, but I have never been around a Kfox
before.
> >My tail-dragger time was a whole 2 hours in a Champ for my sign-off. I've
> >got a lot of time, but all in certified planes. Sounds kind of like your
> >situation.
> >
> >My airplane was in sad shape, systems-wise. But that's my forte, and
> >electrical and fuel can be fixed cheaply and easily. Airframe issues are
> >another matter. My basic airframe was sound, and the fabric was good
(save
> >for a couple places).
> >
> >The first thing I would look at is corrosion. My Model 2 was built in 91,
> >and there was the smallest bit of corrosion where the coolant had leaked,
> >and not taken care of.
> >
> >Check the control rods under the seat, as my seat rested right on them. I
> >can give you a fix if you find a problem. Also spend time replacing the
> >wing
> >bolts and the control system bolts. Cheap insurance.
> >
> >Check to make sure that all SB's and SI's are complied with. If not,
decide
> >whether you can do it yourself, or why it wasn't done. Mine were
> >selectively
> >ignored. Some work involved, but nothing major.
> >
> >If you wish, you can give me a call on the Rotax. Like you, I have lots
of
> >time, but none behind the 582. It was a learning experience, but I'm
> >getting
> >used to it. It is a little different, both in caring and flying. To start
> >it, pull the choke, light the ignition, and hit the start. It should fire
> >up
> >in a second or so. Mine sat for 4 months, and fired right up. Basic fuel
> >and
> >air stuff. Keep the temps within Rotax limits, and pay attention to the
> >details. It will be fine.
> >
> >I have found the KFox to be the most forgiving and easy landing airplane
> >I've been in. Take-off's are easy, and landings, both three-point and
> >wheel,
> >are non-events. Things happen a little slower in it, so you've got extra
> >brain-bytes to work the details.
> >
> >I did ground-loop it once. I got cocky, and was playing a little. It
> >started
> >bouncing and I let it get sideways. Like any tail-dragger, once it goes,
> >it's gone. No damage, save my ego. Those who have, and those who will...
> >
> >If I can help further, let me know. If you've never had a Kfox before,
> >you're really going to enjoy it.
> >Bradley
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Laundy
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:04 AM
> >To: Kitfox
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Just bought my first Kitfox
> >
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy
> >
> >I have just purchased a Kitfox 3 with Rotax 582, the aircraft has done
600
> >hours and the engine 400 hours. I will be collecting it in a couple of
> >weeks, and the owner will give me a check out.
> >
> >I would greatly appreciate any tips you guys can give me about any
> >weaknesses to look for in the airframe or engine. Also I would like to
know
> >of any handling vices anyone has experienced. In particular are there any
> >handling problems with the flaperons? I have not flown such a system
> >before.
> >I will most likely be operating into fairly short farm strips, so the
slow
> >speed handling techniques are of particular interest.
> >
> >Also I have not used a Rotax 582 before, any tips out there as to best
way
> >to start it, and to operate it for maximum longevity.
> >
> >I have a fair bit of flying under my belt (15000hrs) but much of it was
in
> >the RAF and then on Boeings. Light aircraft around 900 hrs mostly tail
> >draggers.
> >
> >You are the guys with the real experience of the Kitfox, and I will
> >greatly appreciate any advice.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Mike Laundy
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Marco Menezes
> >Model 2 582 N99KX
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 38
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
I was under the impression that a Sport Pilot could fly any aircraft that
meets the SP requirements...
Andrew
>From: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:51:18 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>
>I find it is a likely to become increasingly cumbersome obtaining a
>new medical even while my doctors tell me I am quite capable of
>operating an aircraft. I also have little interest in operating my
>Fox at night. The Sport Pilot route seems to be attractive for
>me. I am now 69. I would need to replace my NSI Turbo and CAP and
>have the aircraft re-inspected. The following would seem to make
>that permissible for Sport Aircraft use.
>
>This may be old news to Kitfox Listers, but it is new to me. I came
>across this on the AOPA Web site.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I have built or plan on building an experimental amateur-built
>aircraft that meets the definition of light sport aircraft (LSA). How
>does the sport pilot rule affect me?
> * The aircraft remains an experimental amateur-built aircraft.
>You cannot change the aircraft airworthiness certificate to SLSA or ELSA.
> * You can modify your aircraft (if you're the manufacturer) to
>meet the definition of LSA.
>You may operate as pilot in command of the aircraft as a light sport
>aircraft if you hold a sport pilot certificate or are exercising
>sport pilot privileges.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Have any of you done this? Any comments? Of course this would put
>me back to looking for a new engine.
>
>Jim Crowder
>
>
Message 39
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
You can, its just that if the plane has not continually been listed with
a max gross weight of 1320 or less it does not meet the SP requirements.
Andrew Matthaey wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
>
>I was under the impression that a Sport Pilot could fly any aircraft that
>meets the SP requirements...
>
>Andrew
>
>
>
>
>>From: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
>>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:51:18 -0700
>>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>>
>>I find it is a likely to become increasingly cumbersome obtaining a
>>new medical even while my doctors tell me I am quite capable of
>>operating an aircraft. I also have little interest in operating my
>>Fox at night. The Sport Pilot route seems to be attractive for
>>me. I am now 69. I would need to replace my NSI Turbo and CAP and
>>have the aircraft re-inspected. The following would seem to make
>>that permissible for Sport Aircraft use.
>>
>>This may be old news to Kitfox Listers, but it is new to me. I came
>>across this on the AOPA Web site.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>I have built or plan on building an experimental amateur-built
>>aircraft that meets the definition of light sport aircraft (LSA). How
>>does the sport pilot rule affect me?
>> * The aircraft remains an experimental amateur-built aircraft.
>>You cannot change the aircraft airworthiness certificate to SLSA or ELSA.
>> * You can modify your aircraft (if you're the manufacturer) to
>>meet the definition of LSA.
>>You may operate as pilot in command of the aircraft as a light sport
>>aircraft if you hold a sport pilot certificate or are exercising
>>sport pilot privileges.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>Have any of you done this? Any comments? Of course this would put
>>me back to looking for a new engine.
>>
>>Jim Crowder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
In a message dated 3/8/2006 9:20:56 P.M. Central Standard Time,
spaghettiohead@hotmail.com writes:
I was under the impression that a Sport Pilot could fly any aircraft that
meets the SP requirements...
Andrew
I believe if the KF designed for a MAX wt of 950 and since it was flown off
at that it complies...
If it was originally designed at over the max weight, you can not build it
to and test fly it to a lower wt to comply....
I know certain Luscombe comply and some dont. However, no matter what you
cant take stuff off one to make it comply..... I believe the Luscombes with
full electric dont?
That's my take......
Im sure a FISDO can quickly clarify for ya
Message 41
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
AOPA Says:
>* You can modify your aircraft (if you're the manufacturer) to
>meet the definition of LSA.
This seems pretty clear to me. Is AOPA incorrect?
Jim Crowder
Message 42
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
If that is what AOPA says, you can take it to the bank...they're pretty good
with that legal mumbo-jumbo...a whole lot better, I say, than any FnAA FSDO
out there (who don't know their butts from a rat-hole, i.e. ask two
inspectors, get two answers...)!
Andrew
>From: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 20:53:23 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>
>AOPA Says:
> >* You can modify your aircraft (if you're the manufacturer) to
> >meet the definition of LSA.
>
>This seems pretty clear to me. Is AOPA incorrect?
>
>Jim Crowder
>
>
Message 43
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jimmie Blackwell <jimmieblackwell@sbcglobal.net>
I do not know if AOPA is in correct, but I do know that for an airplane to be qualified
for Sport Pilot it must have been originally certified and continually
maintained at a maximum gross weight of 1320 lbs. and other criteria such as
a fixed pitch or ground adjustable prop. For example, if a Kitfox ever had an
inflight adjustable prop it can never be legally flown by someone flying under
sport pilot rules. I know it does not make sense, but that is the rule. Let's
be glad that the rule is there, though it is not perfect.
Jimmie
Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder
AOPA Says:
>* You can modify your aircraft (if you're the manufacturer) to
>meet the definition of LSA.
This seems pretty clear to me. Is AOPA incorrect?
Jim Crowder
Message 44
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
At 09:31 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote:
>I do not know if AOPA is in correct, but I do know that for an
>airplane to be qualified for Sport Pilot it must have been
>originally certified and continually maintained at a maximum gross
>weight of 1320 lbs. and other criteria such as a fixed pitch or
>ground adjustable prop. For example, if a Kitfox ever had an
>inflight adjustable prop it can never be legally flown by someone
>flying under sport pilot rules. I know it does not make sense, but
>that is the rule. Let's be glad that the rule is there, though it
>is not perfect.
>
> Jimmie
I know that this is what I have always read on the Kitfox List, but
AOPA says as manufacturer you can change it. Here is the link to
their Web site. It's in the membership section, so it may not work
for non members but give it a try. It's a long piece and is near the
bottom. It says at the bottom of the page it was updated today. I
have no idea what they updated. Surely AOPA has something to base
this on. As we all know, it does make sense.
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_faq.html
Jim Crowder
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