Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:11 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (Jim Crowder)
2. 03:54 AM - Re: toe in/toe out (Bradley M Webb)
3. 03:56 AM - Re: Kitfox handling problems (Bradley M Webb)
4. 03:58 AM - Model 4 rudder on Model 2 (Bradley M Webb)
5. 04:41 AM - Re: full flaps was: Kitfox handling problems (Ben Baltrusaitis)
6. 05:22 AM - Re: looking for a CFI in michigan (Fox5flyer)
7. 05:51 AM - Ailerons retaining water. (wingnut)
8. 05:51 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (Dan Billingsley)
9. 06:10 AM - Re: Ailerons retaining water. (jareds)
10. 06:30 AM - Re: Model 4 rudder on Model 2 (Summers, Mark)
11. 06:52 AM - Re: Ailerons retaining water. (kurt schrader)
12. 07:02 AM - 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV (Brett Walmsley)
13. 07:05 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (Alan & Linda Daniels)
14. 07:41 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (jdmcbean)
15. 07:52 AM - Re: Ailerons retaining water. (Fox5flyer)
16. 08:06 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
17. 08:06 AM - toe in/out (Bob & Toodie Marshall)
18. 08:13 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (alnanarthur)
19. 08:13 AM - elevator gap seals (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
20. 10:23 AM - Re: Kitfox handling problems (Marco Menezes)
21. 10:24 AM - Re: looking for a CFI in michigan (Marco Menezes)
22. 11:38 AM - Re: looking for a CFI in michigan (Richard Rabbers)
23. 11:51 AM - Re: Kitfox handling problems (Aerobatics@AOL.COM)
24. 11:57 AM - Re: 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV (John King)
25. 12:45 PM - Re: toe in/toe out (John Anderson)
26. 01:12 PM - Re: Kitfox handling problems (Ron Liebmann)
27. 03:01 PM - Re: 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV (Brett Walmsley)
28. 03:40 PM - Re: 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV (Lowell Fitt)
29. 04:03 PM - Re: 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV (Brett Walmsley)
30. 04:03 PM - Re: Landing Gear Question (cjswa)
31. 04:16 PM - Re: toe in/toe out (Lowell Fitt)
32. 05:56 PM - Re: Kitfox handling problems (Marco Menezes)
33. 06:06 PM - Re: Kitfox handling problems (Marco Menezes)
34. 06:48 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Brian Rodgers)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
At 04:10 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote:
>You referenced the AOPA web site info which I copied and pasted here:
>
> Can I change the weight of an experimental amateur-built that I
>have built so it meets the 1,320-pound limit for light sport aircraft?
>As the builder of a home-built airplane that has yet to receive its
>experimental airworthiness certificate, you may decrease or increase
>the weight as necessary to have the airplane meet the definition of
>light sport aircraft, which is defined as having a maximum gross
>weight of 1,320 pounds. However, once a weight limit has been set as
>part of the airplane's experimental amateur-built certification
>process, the original builder, future owners, and repairmen are
>prohibited from making any modifications to the weight for the
>purpose of meeting the definition of light sport aircraft.
You are correct. In plain English, this paragraph is in direct
conflict with the one I quoted, but I did find this one later on. I
will now see if I can perhaps surrender my current airworthiness
certificate, keep the fuselage, replace the total power system, and
create a lighter plane with a gross weight of 1320 lbs. and otherwise
meet the requirements.
Jim Crowder
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Mine does the same thing. After pushing it back into the tie-down, I lift
the right gear and put the wheel 1-2" in to relieve the bungies.
As for straight on landing, I glance at the slip/skid ball on short final,
and mentally mark the nose position based on that. I haven't side-loaded the
tires, yet (!).
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kerrjohna@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: toe in/toe out
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
one more thing to keep the discussion going. Camber = toe in while in the
three point position, true?
when I am moving the plane around, into to the hangar etc, rolling backward
causes the wheels to spread....toe out rolling backward. Rolling forward
causes the wheels to move in tight against the frame....toe out rolling
forward. When I am in the plane landing, taxing etc, I don't get any sense
of "darting" one way or the other and I often touch down with one wheel then
the other.
on the sight picture for straight ahead, my CFI/Cropduster couldn't get it
right until I made a mark up by the appropriate "rocker arm" blister for
alignment, then there were no more chirps on touch down..
any thoughts.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>
> Bradley,
> I am a strong advocate of toe out (slight) if perfectly parallel can't be
> achieved. I am curious as to the degree of toe in you have?
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bradley M Webb"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:07 AM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
> >
> > Interesting. Mine is toed in, and I can see the logic in toe-out. I
don't
> > know how hard it is to change. I imagine lots of bending, grunting, and
> > cursing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
one more thing to keep the discussion going. Camber = toe in while in the
three point position, true?
when I am moving the plane around, into to the hangar etc, rolling backward
causes the wheels to spread....toe out rolling backward. Rolling forward
causes the wheels to move in tight against the frame....toe out rolling
forward. When I am in the plane landing, taxing etc, I don't get any sense
of "darting" one way or the other and I often touch down with one wheel then
the other.
on the sight picture for straight ahead, my CFI/Cropduster couldn't get it
right until I made a mark up by the appropriate "rocker arm" blister for
alignment, then there were no more chirps on touch down..
any thoughts.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" lcfitt@sbcglobal.net
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <LCFITT@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Bradley,
I am a strong advocate of toe out (slight) if perfectly parallel can't be
achieved. I am curious as to the degree of toe in you have?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradley M Webb" <BMWEBB@COX.NET>
To: <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:07 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <BMWEBB@COX.NET>
Interesting. Mine is toed in, and I can see the logic in toe-out. I don't
know how hard it is to change. I imagine lots of bending,
grunting, and
cursing.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Kitfox handling problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
As far as the bouncing goes, keep the tire pressure very low on large tires.
Mine has about 4-5 psi, and it has no tendency to bounce, unless I miss the
3 point attitude, and the tail drops at touchdown. My tires are ATV knobbys,
if that makes a difference.
I don't think I've yet hit the tail wheel first.
An interesting thing about my 2: With flaps deployed, it really steepens the
approach angel. It is much more noticeable than the Cessna's. but in the
flare, I don't have enough elevator authority to do a 3-point landing. I'm
thinking of getting gap seals to help it.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Malcolmbru@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
I have a KF2 and haven't flown it yet. I have almost 500 HR in two kolbs.
I have flown a cgs hawk and a Golden Circle T. Bird all tail draggers but
non have what I would call having a tendency to ground loop. I saw a guy
turn
off an asphalt runway so hard and abrupt he blew the tire on a kolb and it
just kept turning fine. I put 11-22 tires w/ 8 in rims on the kit fox and
am
a little worried about bouncing on landing. I herd 3 point is the best. I
often landed the kolb tail wheel first. Really dragging it in.
An old cub pilot told me to make sure you shake the plane from side to
side to take the load off the gear as a post flight inspection this helps
save the bungies and sometimes you can see it go from toe out to toe in.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Model 4 rudder on Model 2 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Does anyone have any idea whether the Model 4 vertical stab and rudder would
fit the Model 2? I'm wondering if the tubing would match anything in the aft
fuse, so that it could be welded on.
Thanks,
Bradley
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List:full flaps was: Kitfox handling problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
Bradley,
My 5 wouldn't stall with full flaps until I put gap seals on the elevator. Now
I can land w/full flaps as long as I put in all the nose up trim I have.
BTW, I used snow board protective tape. It is 12 inches wide.
Ben
----- Original Message -----
F
An interesting thing about my 2: With flaps deployed, it really steepens the
approach angel. It is much more noticeable than the Cessna's. but in the
flare, I don't have enough elevator authority to do a 3-point landing. I'm
thinking of getting gap seals to help it.
Bradley
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: looking for a CFI in michigan |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
If you can't find a CFI with tail dragger experience you might consider what
I did. I have a very good friend who earned his ticket in the 50s and has
beaucoup tail dragger time. I bought a 1946 Piper Vagabond (PA17) to
prepare myself and for something to fly while I was building my model 2. He
spent several hours teaching me the ins and outs of landing and taking off
in that little thing and when I was proficient and comfortable I scheduled a
bi-annual checkout. The CFI, who was not tail dragger experienced, signed
me off (log book endorsement) with no reservations. All I had to do was
demonstrate proficiency. I continued to fly the Vag and when the Fox was
finished and the hours flown off I sold the Vag for a profit. Worked out
great.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: <Malcolmbru@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:24 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: looking for a CFI in michigan
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
>
> I lost track of a CFI in Michigan that also had a kit fox on the west
> side of the state I would like to here from you if you are out there
mal
Message 7
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| Subject: | Ailerons retaining water. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Over my last two flights, I noticed something that has me worried. When I move
the ailerons during the preflight, I can hear some water sloshing around inside.
I didn't worry too much the first time I noticed it because I could see that
there are some small drain holes near the tailing edge. I figured the aileron
must have been in just the wrong position for them to drain properly. Yesterday,
I noticed it again and now I'm starting to wonder if the drain holes are
inadequate. I didn't build this thing so I'm not all that comfortable with the
idea of drilling holes in the ailerons. Any advice out there?
-Luis R.
-N824KF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20794#20794
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
Mal, That is an interesting thought. I'm sure many of us don't anticipate loosing
our medical any time soon, yet, life can blindside us sometimes. Let me throw
this out to see if I am correct in my understanding...
If I loose my medical I'm grounded permanently. There is no way I could jump
over to Sport PIlot.
If I get the Sport Pilot ticket now and loose my medical in the future, I can
still fly a plane that the Sport Pilot rules allow. Is that the correct scoop?
Thanks, Dan
www.azshowersolutions.com/Kitfox1.html
Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
Dan unless you are very confident your medical condition will out live this
airplane I would lean toward qualifying for sport pilot. It may be worth
more money being a little heaver with more options but you may need to sell it
if you loose your medical. mal
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons retaining water. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Dew or even rain will accumulate quite a puddle in there.
I drilled several other areas to help with the draining. There is still
some but it usually dissapates during flight now.
wingnut wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
>
>Over my last two flights, I noticed something that has me worried. When I move
the ailerons during the preflight, I can hear some water sloshing around inside.
I didn't worry too much the first time I noticed it because I could see that
there are some small drain holes near the tailing edge. I figured the aileron
must have been in just the wrong position for them to drain properly. Yesterday,
I noticed it again and now I'm starting to wonder if the drain holes are
inadequate. I didn't build this thing so I'm not all that comfortable with the
idea of drilling holes in the ailerons. Any advice out there?
>
>-Luis R.
>-N824KF
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20794#20794
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Model 4 rudder on Model 2 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Summers, Mark" <Mark.Summers@lwbref.com>
I just welded a speedster kf4 tail onto a kf2. The new tail has all ribbed surfaces
gap seals electric trim, etc. Matching it up wasn't too much trouble but
w&b may be. The kf 2 has less attach pins than the four does on the rudder and
horizontal so you couldn't just add a kf4 rudder to a kf2. Hope this helps
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons retaining water. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Luis,
I think you are right, that water in there is not a
good thing. If you can figure out where the water is
actually accumulating, you can drill a 1/4" hole there
to relieve the water. Just make it look like the
other holes and it should be no problem. Be careful
not to push too hard on the drill so that you only go
into the bottom and don't dent the top skin. You
don't want the hole too close to the trailing edge nor
drill into the spar either. Otherwise it should be
OK.
I wonder if some of the foam inside has blocked the
ability of the water to make it to the drain holes?
Also, it might be a good thing to slosh a little
linseed oil around inside them after they are dried
out, just to coat the metal and keep corrosion down.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com> wrote:
> Over my last two flights, I noticed something that
> has me worried. When I move the ailerons during the
> preflight, I can hear some water sloshing around
> inside. I didn't worry too much the first time I
> noticed it because I could see that there are some
> small drain holes near the tailing edge. I figured
> the aileron must have been in just the wrong
> position for them to drain properly. Yesterday, I
> noticed it again and now I'm starting to wonder if
> the drain holes are inadequate. I didn't build this
> thing so I'm not all that comfortable with the idea
> of drilling holes in the ailerons. Any advice out
> there?
>
> -Luis R.
> -N824KF
Message 12
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| Subject: | 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
Needing a little advice. I am mounting the intake maifolds and carbs on a model
IV (912UL). I am sure I have to swap the maifolds to get the carbs in the wide
arrangment to clear the motor mount. But, do the carbs swap too or do they stay
on the original side or does it matter? The issue is the throttle cable routing.
Thanks, Brett
--------
Brett
Model IV 1200/912UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20814#20814
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
You can usually get your medical back, but it can be a pain and very
expensive to keep up.( I just talked to a pilot that pays $3000 per year
for test because he put on his medical form that he thought he might
have had a Kidney stone. The FAA requires him to take these test every
12 months, and it has been going on for several years.) You would
usually know if you are not going to pass a medical, and as long as you
did not fail one you are OK SP. If you fail a medical you need to get a
waver on the condition and get a valid medical, and then never take
another medical. Example. If you start cancer treatment but still have a
valid medical, just don't go for another medical and you are OK to fly,
provided you feel you are safe to fly. This is really unfair as you
might have failed a medical in the past for something you can not get a
waver for, and so can never fly, but someone with exactly the same
condition, but maybe in much worse health that has never had a medical
is legal to fly. You just have to love what we pay these people to do
for us.
Dan Billingsley wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
>
>Mal, That is an interesting thought. I'm sure many of us don't anticipate loosing
our medical any time soon, yet, life can blindside us sometimes. Let me throw
this out to see if I am correct in my understanding...
> If I loose my medical I'm grounded permanently. There is no way I could jump
over to Sport PIlot.
> If I get the Sport Pilot ticket now and loose my medical in the future, I can
still fly a plane that the Sport Pilot rules allow. Is that the correct scoop?
> Thanks, Dan
> www.azshowersolutions.com/Kitfox1.html
>
>Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
>
>Dan unless you are very confident your medical condition will out live this
>airplane I would lean toward qualifying for sport pilot. It may be worth
>more money being a little heaver with more options but you may need to sell it
>if you loose your medical. mal
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Dan,
If you are a licensed Private Pilot and let your medical expire. Not
revoked, suspended or denied. Then you can operate a LSA aircraft as a
Sport Pilot. Of course there are training requirements but in your case you
have the time in type. If you go in to renew your medical and it is denied
then you are grounded. You would have to get your Medical back or get a
Special Issuance Medical before you could fly again.. then let the medical
expire. There still is the FAR that one must self certify that they are
physically and mentally competent to complete the flight. (catch 22)
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley
<dan@azshowersolutions.com>
Mal, That is an interesting thought. I'm sure many of us don't anticipate
loosing our medical any time soon, yet, life can blindside us sometimes. Let
me throw this out to see if I am correct in my understanding...
If I loose my medical I'm grounded permanently. There is no way I could
jump over to Sport PIlot.
If I get the Sport Pilot ticket now and loose my medical in the future, I
can still fly a plane that the Sport Pilot rules allow. Is that the correct
scoop?
Thanks, Dan
www.azshowersolutions.com/Kitfox1.html
Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
Dan unless you are very confident your medical condition will out live this
airplane I would lean toward qualifying for sport pilot. It may be worth
more money being a little heaver with more options but you may need to sell
it
if you loose your medical. mal
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons retaining water. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Might want to consider the drain grommets that sea planes use. They create
a low pressure area that sucks the water out.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ailerons retaining water.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Luis,
>
> I think you are right, that water in there is not a
> good thing. If you can figure out where the water is
> actually accumulating, you can drill a 1/4" hole there
> to relieve the water. Just make it look like the
> other holes and it should be no problem. Be careful
> not to push too hard on the drill so that you only go
> into the bottom and don't dent the top skin. You
> don't want the hole too close to the trailing edge nor
> drill into the spar either. Otherwise it should be
> OK.
>
> I wonder if some of the foam inside has blocked the
> ability of the water to make it to the drain holes?
>
> Also, it might be a good thing to slosh a little
> linseed oil around inside them after they are dried
> out, just to coat the metal and keep corrosion down.
>
> Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>
> --- wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com> wrote:
>
> > Over my last two flights, I noticed something that
> > has me worried. When I move the ailerons during the
> > preflight, I can hear some water sloshing around
> > inside. I didn't worry too much the first time I
> > noticed it because I could see that there are some
> > small drain holes near the tailing edge. I figured
> > the aileron must have been in just the wrong
> > position for them to drain properly. Yesterday, I
> > noticed it again and now I'm starting to wonder if
> > the drain holes are inadequate. I didn't build this
> > thing so I'm not all that comfortable with the idea
> > of drilling holes in the ailerons. Any advice out
> > there?
> >
> > -Luis R.
> > -N824KF
>
>
Message 16
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Jim, you may be in for disappointment. The quote below is from the AOPA answer
to the question.
"As the builder of a home-built airplane that has yet to receive its experimental
airworthiness certificate, you may decrease or increase
>the weight as necessary to have the airplane meet the definition of
>light sport aircraft, which is defined as having a maximum gross
>weight of 1,320 pounds.
Now for the hammer.....
However, once a weight limit has been set as
>part of the airplane's experimental amateur-built certification
>process, the original builder, future owners, and repairmen are
>prohibited from making any modifications to the weight for the
>purpose of meeting the definition of light sport aircraft.
does not sound promising.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder
>
> At 04:10 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote:
> >You referenced the AOPA web site info which I copied and pasted here:
> >
> > Can I change the weight of an experimental amateur-built that I
> >have built so it meets the 1,320-pound limit for light sport aircraft?
> >As the builder of a home-built airplane that has yet to receive its
> >experimental airworthiness certificate, you may decrease or increase
> >the weight as necessary to have the airplane meet the definition of
> >light sport aircraft, which is defined as having a maximum gross
> >weight of 1,320 pounds. However, once a weight limit has been set as
> >part of the airplane's experimental amateur-built certification
> >process, the original builder, future owners, and repairmen are
> >prohibited from making any modifications to the weight for the
> >purpose of meeting the definition of light sport aircraft.
>
> You are correct. In plain English, this paragraph is in direct
> conflict with the one I quoted, but I did find this one later on. I
> will now see if I can perhaps surrender my current airworthiness
> certificate, keep the fuselage, replace the total power system, and
> create a lighter plane with a gross weight of 1320 lbs. and otherwise
> meet the requirements.
>
> Jim Crowder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jim, you may be in for disappointment. The quote below is from the AOPA answer
to the question.
"As the builder of a home-built airplane that has yet to receive its experimental
airworthiness certificate, you may decrease or increase
the weight as necessary to have the airplane meet the definition of
light sport aircraft, which is defined as having a maximum gross
weight of 1,320 pounds.
Now for the hammer.....
However, once a weight limit has been set as
part of the airplane's experimental amateur-built certification
process, the original builder, future owners, and repairmen are
prohibited from making any modifications to the weight for the
purpose of meeting the definition of light sport aircraft.
does not sound promising.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jim Crowder jimlc@att.net
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <JIMLC@ATT.NET>
At 04:10 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote:
You referenced the AOPA web site info which I copied and pasted here:
Can I change the weight of an experimental amateur-built that I
have built so it meets the 1,320-pound limit for light sport aircraft?
As the builder of a home-built airplane that has yet to receive its
experimental airworthiness certificate, you may decrease or increase
the weight as necessary to have the airplane meet the definition of
light sport aircraft, which is defined as having a maximum gross
weight of 1,320 pounds. However, once a weight limit has been set as
part o
f the airplane's experimental amateur-built certification
process, the original builder, future owners, and repairmen are
prohibited from making any modifications to the weight for the
purpose of meeting the definition of light sport aircraft.
You are correct. In plain English, this paragraph is in direct
conflict with the one I quoted, but I did find this one later on. I
will now see if I can perhaps surrender my current airworthiness
certificate, keep the fuselage, replace the total power system, and
create a lighter plane with a gross weight of 1320 lbs. and otherwise
meet the requirements.
Jim Crowder
uch as the Subscriptions page,
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall" <rtmarshall@osb.net>
Hi Guys, I have been following your discussion on toe in/out. I flew a C180 for
about ten years, the ideal setting would be O degrees or one to two degrees out,
easy to say hard to achieve, the toe out tends to pull the plane back to going
straight when it is turning either left or right. picture going straight
and then as the plane starts to turn what the leading wheel is doing , it wants
to pull you back, sounds crazy but it works. Also when you measure your toe,
put your wheels on a greased plate to allow them to splay out, otherwise the
tread will hold them from going to where they would when you land. My C180 was
way out and met the criteria of evil, but became more manageable after adjusting
the toe. fwiw I currently fly a Harmon rocket, Sincerely, Bob. Do Not Archive
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
Jim,
I guess that I would first ask the local FAA folks some hypothetical
questions concerning assembling an experimental
aircraft from cannibalized parts from a de-registered aircraft.
And what a hypothetical person would need to do to register
said aircraft. How to prove 51% and so forth. I would also get an
new N number to start a completely new history for the new airplane.
My Kitfox 5 is certified with a gross weight of 1232# since I
finished building prior to the final rule.
Allan & Nancy Arthur
Kitfox 5, N40AA
Rotax 912s, Warpdrive 3 blade
Byron Airport (C83) Hanger C8
>
> I will now see if I can perhaps surrender my current airworthiness
> certificate, keep the fuselage, replace the total power system, and
> create a lighter plane with a gross weight of 1320 lbs. and otherwise
> meet the requirements.
>
> Jim Crowder
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | elevator gap seals |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Brad, gap seals can be quickly and easily fabricated using contact paper or shelf
liner. 2 one inch stips overlapped and stuck to each other to provide you
with a piece 1 1/2 in wide can then be attached to in "s" orientation between
each set of hinges; for example, from the top of the stabilizer to the bottom
of the elevator. The reverse will also work. No fuss, no muss and the price
is right. Mine have been in place for about 9 years with no deterioration.
John Kerr
Brad, gap seals can be quickly and easily fabricated using contact paper or shelf
liner. 2 one inch stips overlapped and stuck to each other to provide you with
a piece 1 1/2 in wide can then be attached to in "s" orientation between each
set of hinges; for example, from the top of the stabilizer to the bottom of
the elevator. The reverse will also work. No fuss, no muss and the price is
right. Mine have been in place for about 9 years with no deterioration.
John Kerr
Message 20
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| Subject: | Kitfox handling problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Bradley,
I have gap seals on my Model 2 and it still lacks elevator authority at "stall"
speed. There's really no such thing as a flare or "full stall" landing in my
2. Not at all like I was used to in Cessnas or even Cubs. It's more like a "full
mush" landing. This resulted in alot of spectacular bounces at first until
someone on the list suggested carring more speed into touchdown. Now, if I
touch down at 45 or so ( indicated) there's no bounce at all. Haven't tried using
flaps to increase glide angle, slips seem to work pretty good for that. I
though the flaps on Models 1-3 were more for trim than anything else.
Puzzling out the envelope is part of the fun isn't it?
Bradley M Webb <bmwebb@cox.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
As far as the bouncing goes, keep the tire pressure very low on large tires.
Mine has about 4-5 psi, and it has no tendency to bounce, unless I miss the
3 point attitude, and the tail drops at touchdown. My tires are ATV knobbys,
if that makes a difference.
I don't think I've yet hit the tail wheel first.
An interesting thing about my 2: With flaps deployed, it really steepens the
approach angel. It is much more noticeable than the Cessna's. but in the
flare, I don't have enough elevator authority to do a 3-point landing. I'm
thinking of getting gap seals to help it.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Malcolmbru@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
I have a KF2 and haven't flown it yet. I have almost 500 HR in two kolbs.
I have flown a cgs hawk and a Golden Circle T. Bird all tail draggers but
non have what I would call having a tendency to ground loop. I saw a guy
turn
off an asphalt runway so hard and abrupt he blew the tire on a kolb and it
just kept turning fine. I put 11-22 tires w/ 8 in rims on the kit fox and
am
a little worried about bouncing on landing. I herd 3 point is the best. I
often landed the kolb tail wheel first. Really dragging it in.
An old cub pilot told me to make sure you shake the plane from side to
side to take the load off the gear as a post flight inspection this helps
save the bungies and sometimes you can see it go from toe out to toe in.
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: looking for a CFI in michigan |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Malcolm,
Where in Michigan are you? There's a CFI in Cadillac who is TG proficient. He
teaches floats too. Contact me off list if you'd like his number.
Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
If you can't find a CFI with tail dragger experience you might consider what
I did. I have a very good friend who earned his ticket in the 50s and has
beaucoup tail dragger time. I bought a 1946 Piper Vagabond (PA17) to
prepare myself and for something to fly while I was building my model 2. He
spent several hours teaching me the ins and outs of landing and taking off
in that little thing and when I was proficient and comfortable I scheduled a
bi-annual checkout. The CFI, who was not tail dragger experienced, signed
me off (log book endorsement) with no reservations. All I had to do was
demonstrate proficiency. I continued to fly the Vag and when the Fox was
finished and the hours flown off I sold the Vag for a profit. Worked out
great.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:24 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: looking for a CFI in michigan
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
>
> I lost track of a CFI in Michigan that also had a kit fox on the west
> side of the state I would like to here from you if you are out there
mal
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: looking for a CFI in michigan |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
Malcolm,
The FBO in Allegan in SW Michigan has an Aeronca Camp and 2 tailwheel instructors.
I got my tailwheel training there.
They are hoping to get another champ at some point in the future and add float
training.
>>Where in Michigan are you? There's a CFI in Cadillac who is TG proficient. He
teaches floats too. Contact me off list if you'd like his number.
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20884#20884
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox handling problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
In a message dated 3/10/2006 12:24:21 P.M. Central Standard Time,
msm_9949@yahoo.com writes:
Bradley,
I have gap seals on my Model 2 and it still lacks elevator authority at
"stall" speed. There's really no such thing as a flare or "full stall" landing
in
my 2. Not at all like I was used to in Cessnas or even Cubs. It's more like
a "full mush" landing. This resulted in alot of spectacular bounces at first
until someone on the list suggested carring more speed into touchdown. Now,
if I touch down at 45 or so ( indicated) there's no bounce at all. Haven't
tried using flaps to increase glide angle, slips seem to work pretty good for
that. I though the flaps on Models 1-3 were more for trim than anything else.
Hi I have a 2 as well, sealing the gaps made a huge difference for me. You
might want to check your CG. Like you I ran out of elevator on flare.... I
believe empty my CG is at 27% MAC. you may be just a tad nose heavy
Best,
Dave Patrick KF2
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Brett,
The carbs do not get swapped, only the manifolds.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Brett Walmsley wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
>
>Needing a little advice. I am mounting the intake maifolds and carbs on a model
IV (912UL). I am sure I have to swap the maifolds to get the carbs in the wide
arrangment to clear the motor mount. But, do the carbs swap too or do they
stay on the original side or does it matter? The issue is the throttle cable routing.
>Thanks, Brett
>
>--------
>Brett
>Model IV 1200/912UL
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20814#20814
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: toe in/toe out |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
My Series 5 with spring gear seems the same when moving around the hangar
but no tendancy to wander in anger. John A.
From: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: toe in/toe out
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
one more thing to keep the discussion going. Camber = toe in while in the
three point position, true?
when I am moving the plane around, into to the hangar etc, rolling backward
causes the wheels to spread....toe out rolling backward. Rolling forward
causes the wheels to move in tight against the frame....toe out rolling
forward. When I am in the plane landing, taxing etc, I don't get any sense
of "darting" one way or the other and I often touch down with one wheel then
the other.
on the sight picture for straight ahead, my CFI/Cropduster couldn't get it
right until I made a mark up by the appropriate "rocker arm" blister for
alignment, then there were no more chirps on touch down..
any thoughts.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>
>Bradley,
>I am a strong advocate of toe out (slight) if perfectly parallel can't be
>achieved. I am curious as to the degree of toe in you have?
>
>Lowell
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bradley M Webb"
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:07 AM
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
> >
> > Interesting. Mine is toed in, and I can see the logic in toe-out. I
>don't
> > know how hard it is to change. I imagine lots of bending, grunting, and
> > cursing.
>
>
one more thing to keep the discussion going. Camber = toe in while in the
three point position, true?
when I am moving the plane around, into to the hangar etc, rolling backward
causes the wheels to spread....toe out rolling backward. Rolling forward
causes the wheels to move in tight against the frame....toe out rolling
forward. When I am in the plane landing, taxing etc, I don't get any sense
of "darting" one way or the other and I often touch down with one wheel then
the other.
on the sight picture for straight ahead, my CFI/Cropduster couldn't get it
right until I made a mark up by the appropriate "rocker arm" blister for
alignment, then there were no more chirps on touch down..
any thoughts.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" lcfitt@sbcglobal.net
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <LCFITT@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Bradley,
I am a strong advocate of toe out (slight) if perfectly parallel can't be
achieved. I am curious as to the degree of toe in you have?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradley M Webb" <BMWEBB@COX.NET>
To: <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:07 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <BMWEBB@COX.NET>
Interesting. Mine is toed in, and I can see the logic in toe-out. I don't
know how hard it is to change. I imagine lots of bending,
grunting, and
cursing.
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox handling problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
Hi Marco,
It was easy for me to retrofit a Model 4 Speedster elevator to my Model 2.
It made a big difference in landing slowly. The elevator came with the trim
tab cut-out already welded in place. I have an electric evevator trim system
that works great.
Ron Model 2/582 N55KF
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Menezes" <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
> Bradley,
>
> I have gap seals on my Model 2 and it still lacks elevator authority at
> "stall" speed. There's really no such thing as a flare or "full stall"
> landing in my 2. Not at all like I was used to in Cessnas or even Cubs.
> It's more like a "full mush" landing. This resulted in alot of spectacular
> bounces at first until someone on the list suggested carring more speed
> into touchdown. Now, if I touch down at 45 or so ( indicated) there's no
> bounce at all. Haven't tried using flaps to increase glide angle, slips
> seem to work pretty good for that. I though the flaps on Models 1-3 were
> more for trim than anything else.
>
> Puzzling out the envelope is part of the fun isn't it?
>
> Bradley M Webb <bmwebb@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
>
> As far as the bouncing goes, keep the tire pressure very low on large
> tires.
> Mine has about 4-5 psi, and it has no tendency to bounce, unless I miss
> the
> 3 point attitude, and the tail drops at touchdown. My tires are ATV
> knobbys,
> if that makes a difference.
>
> I don't think I've yet hit the tail wheel first.
>
> An interesting thing about my 2: With flaps deployed, it really steepens
> the
> approach angel. It is much more noticeable than the Cessna's. but in the
> flare, I don't have enough elevator authority to do a 3-point landing. I'm
> thinking of getting gap seals to help it.
>
> Bradley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Malcolmbru@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:14 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
>
> I have a KF2 and haven't flown it yet. I have almost 500 HR in two kolbs.
>
> I have flown a cgs hawk and a Golden Circle T. Bird all tail draggers but
>
> non have what I would call having a tendency to ground loop. I saw a guy
> turn
> off an asphalt runway so hard and abrupt he blew the tire on a kolb and it
> just kept turning fine. I put 11-22 tires w/ 8 in rims on the kit fox and
> am
> a little worried about bouncing on landing. I herd 3 point is the best. I
> often landed the kolb tail wheel first. Really dragging it in.
> An old cub pilot told me to make sure you shake the plane from side to
> side to take the load off the gear as a post flight inspection this helps
> save the bungies and sometimes you can see it go from toe out to toe in.
>
>
> Marco Menezes
> Model 2 582 N99KX
>
> ---------------------------------
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
So that means the linkages will be on the outside?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John King" <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
>
> Brett,
>
> The carbs do not get swapped, only the manifolds.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
> Brett Walmsley wrote:
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
>>
>>Needing a little advice. I am mounting the intake maifolds and carbs on a
>>model IV (912UL). I am sure I have to swap the maifolds to get the carbs
>>in the wide arrangment to clear the motor mount. But, do the carbs swap
>>too or do they stay on the original side or does it matter? The issue is
>>the throttle cable routing.
>>Thanks, Brett
>>
>>--------
>>Brett
>>Model IV 1200/912UL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20814#20814
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Bret, For what it's worth, my carbs are installed so the throttle cables are
inward - in other words on the hard side to work with. I just checked my
manual and there is a picture of the carbs mounted the other way, but the
manifolds are not swapped in the picture, so I don't know what that means.
If you have the bell crank throttle splitter under the panel, you definitely
want the throttle arms inboard as outboard the throttel cable would
interfere with the battery - at least where mine is placed and the geometry
between the carb throttle arms and the bell crank would be way off.
If you would like a picture direct drop a note.
Incidentally, this talk of Model IV building brings back some great
memories. I wish you guys were closer, It'd be great to pay a visit and
rekindle the old flames.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 7:01 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
>
> Needing a little advice. I am mounting the intake maifolds and carbs on a
> model IV (912UL). I am sure I have to swap the maifolds to get the carbs
> in the wide arrangment to clear the motor mount. But, do the carbs swap
> too or do they stay on the original side or does it matter? The issue is
> the throttle cable routing.
> Thanks, Brett
>
> --------
> Brett
> Model IV 1200/912UL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20814#20814
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912UL carbs and manifolds on model IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
Thanks guys. I have been collecting pictures for a while and use them often. I
have found all configurations. Manifolds and carbs. I had not thought about having
the likage inboard makes adjustment tough but I am concerned with cable length.
Lowell, there is one way to cure that need to build. :)
--------
Brett
Model IV 1200/912UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20926#20926
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cjswa" <cjswa@comcast.net>
Keith,
I have a Model 4 -1050 with the Grove gear. When I was installing the gear,
I found that the forward float attach fittings were not set equal distances
from the gear fittings. (The landing gear fittings seemed to be accurately
placed.) At the time, Grove told me that the float attach fittings on some
Kitfoxes weren't installed using a jig when they were welded and might be
slightly off. Anyway, I just measured the distance from the front face of
the Grove gear to aft side of the aft ear of the forward float attach
fitting. As best as I could measure, the distance on the left side was 1
11/32 inches (1.34") and the right side was 1 1/4 inches (1.25"). Hopefully
this helps.
Bill Anderson
Model 4 -1050
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara & Keith Schneider" <bkls1@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:44 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: LANDING GEAR QUESTION
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Barbara & Keith Schneider"
<bkls1@earthlink.net>
>
> Hello list
>
> I recently picked up a damaged Mod 4, which I am in the process of
> repairing. It suffered a hard landing which wiped out the bungee gear and
> gear fittings. My plan is to replace the gear with the Grove aluminum
gear,
> and mount it in a similar manner as the gear on the Mod 6&7, forgoing the
> special brackets that mount to the stock gear and float attach points.
What
> I am looking for is a measurement from the front face of the Grove gear
leg
> to the aft ear of the forward float attach fitting. This will eliminate
any
> guess work on my part as to properly locating the new gear. Hopefully one
of
> you with a Mod 4 with Grove gear can get this measurement from your plane.
> Also if anyone has any experience with attaching the gear in the manner I
> described I would love to hear how this went, whether good or bad.
>
> On another note since I purchased this repairable Mod 4 , I am considering
> parting with my other two projects, a bent Mod 3 and a uncompleted Mod
> 4-1200 kit. Should there be any interest in either of these, feel free to
> contact me for details.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith Schneider, Waynesville , Ohio
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: toe in/toe out |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
John,
Mine also - wheels out going backward and in going forward and I know for
sure it is slightly toed out. I put spring gear on as a retrofit and paid
particular attention to wheel alighnment. I tweeked the tube gear to
correct a significant toe in before the spring gear installation.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: toe in/toe out
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
>
> My Series 5 with spring gear seems the same when moving around the hangar
> but no tendancy to wander in anger. John A.
>
>
> From: kerrjohna@comcast.net
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: toe in/toe out
> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:10:52 +0000
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>
> one more thing to keep the discussion going. Camber = toe in while in
> the
> three point position, true?
>
> when I am moving the plane around, into to the hangar etc, rolling
> backward
> causes the wheels to spread....toe out rolling backward. Rolling forward
> causes the wheels to move in tight against the frame....toe out rolling
> forward. When I am in the plane landing, taxing etc, I don't get any
> sense
> of "darting" one way or the other and I often touch down with one wheel
> then
> the other.
>
> on the sight picture for straight ahead, my CFI/Cropduster couldn't get it
> right until I made a mark up by the appropriate "rocker arm" blister for
> alignment, then there were no more chirps on touch down..
>
> any thoughts.
>
> John Kerr
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>>
>>Bradley,
>>I am a strong advocate of toe out (slight) if perfectly parallel can't be
>>achieved. I am curious as to the degree of toe in you have?
>>
>>Lowell
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bradley M Webb"
>>To:
>>Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:07 AM
>>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
>>
>>
>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
>> >
>> > Interesting. Mine is toed in, and I can see the logic in toe-out. I
>>don't
>> > know how hard it is to change. I imagine lots of bending, grunting, and
>> > cursing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> one more thing to keep the discussion going. Camber = toe in while in the
> three point position, true?
>
> when I am moving the plane around, into to the hangar etc, rolling
> backward
> causes the wheels to spread....toe out rolling backward. Rolling forward
> causes the wheels to move in tight against the frame....toe out rolling
> forward. When I am in the plane landing, taxing etc, I don't get any sense
> of "darting" one way or the other and I often touch down with one wheel
> then
> the other.
>
> on the sight picture for straight ahead, my CFI/Cropduster couldn't get it
> right until I made a mark up by the appropriate "rocker arm" blister for
> alignment, then there were no more chirps on touch down..
>
> any thoughts.
>
> John Kerr
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Lowell Fitt" lcfitt@sbcglobal.net
>
> -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <LCFITT@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
>
> Bradley,
> I am a strong advocate of toe out (slight) if perfectly parallel can't be
> achieved. I am curious as to the degree of toe in you have?
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bradley M Webb" <BMWEBB@COX.NET>
> To: <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:07 AM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
>
>
> -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <BMWEBB@COX.NET>
>
> Interesting. Mine is toed in, and I can see the logic in toe-out. I
> don't
> know how hard it is to change. I imagine lots of bending,
> grunting, and
> cursing.
>
>
> Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
> http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox handling problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Hi Dave,
You might be right. My empty CG is 10.65, within the range (10.2-14.28) but
admittedly toward the front end of it. How does that translate into MAC? In the
Ed Downs book, he describes the stall characteristics of a model 2 exactly like
how mine acts. I thought it was fairly typical for the design so have left
well enough alone.
Aerobatics@aol.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
In a message dated 3/10/2006 12:24:21 P.M. Central Standard Time,
msm_9949@yahoo.com writes:
Bradley,
I have gap seals on my Model 2 and it still lacks elevator authority at
"stall" speed. There's really no such thing as a flare or "full stall" landing
in
my 2. Not at all like I was used to in Cessnas or even Cubs. It's more like
a "full mush" landing. This resulted in alot of spectacular bounces at first
until someone on the list suggested carring more speed into touchdown. Now,
if I touch down at 45 or so ( indicated) there's no bounce at all. Haven't
tried using flaps to increase glide angle, slips seem to work pretty good for
that. I though the flaps on Models 1-3 were more for trim than anything else.
Hi I have a 2 as well, sealing the gaps made a huge difference for me. You
might want to check your CG. Like you I ran out of elevator on flare.... I
believe empty my CG is at 27% MAC. you may be just a tad nose heavy
Best,
Dave Patrick KF2
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox handling problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
That was one of my first thought': bigger elevator (and bigger rudder too). I imagine
this is an exercise in futility but if anyone has a Model 4 elevator out
there they'd like to part with . . .? Barring that I'd settle for some scale
drawings. :-)
Thanks Ron.
do not archive
Ron Liebmann <rliebmann@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann"
Hi Marco,
It was easy for me to retrofit a Model 4 Speedster elevator to my Model 2.
It made a big difference in landing slowly. The elevator came with the trim
tab cut-out already welded in place. I have an electric evevator trim system
that works great.
Ron Model 2/582 N55KF
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Menezes"
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
>
> Bradley,
>
> I have gap seals on my Model 2 and it still lacks elevator authority at
> "stall" speed. There's really no such thing as a flare or "full stall"
> landing in my 2. Not at all like I was used to in Cessnas or even Cubs.
> It's more like a "full mush" landing. This resulted in alot of spectacular
> bounces at first until someone on the list suggested carring more speed
> into touchdown. Now, if I touch down at 45 or so ( indicated) there's no
> bounce at all. Haven't tried using flaps to increase glide angle, slips
> seem to work pretty good for that. I though the flaps on Models 1-3 were
> more for trim than anything else.
>
> Puzzling out the envelope is part of the fun isn't it?
>
> Bradley M Webb wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
>
> As far as the bouncing goes, keep the tire pressure very low on large
> tires.
> Mine has about 4-5 psi, and it has no tendency to bounce, unless I miss
> the
> 3 point attitude, and the tail drops at touchdown. My tires are ATV
> knobbys,
> if that makes a difference.
>
> I don't think I've yet hit the tail wheel first.
>
> An interesting thing about my 2: With flaps deployed, it really steepens
> the
> approach angel. It is much more noticeable than the Cessna's. but in the
> flare, I don't have enough elevator authority to do a 3-point landing. I'm
> thinking of getting gap seals to help it.
>
> Bradley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Malcolmbru@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:14 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
>
> I have a KF2 and haven't flown it yet. I have almost 500 HR in two kolbs.
>
> I have flown a cgs hawk and a Golden Circle T. Bird all tail draggers but
>
> non have what I would call having a tendency to ground loop. I saw a guy
> turn
> off an asphalt runway so hard and abrupt he blew the tire on a kolb and it
> just kept turning fine. I put 11-22 tires w/ 8 in rims on the kit fox and
> am
> a little worried about bouncing on landing. I herd 3 point is the best. I
> often landed the kolb tail wheel first. Really dragging it in.
> An old cub pilot told me to make sure you shake the plane from side to
> side to take the load off the gear as a post flight inspection this helps
> save the bungies and sometimes you can see it go from toe out to toe in.
>
>
> Marco Menezes
> Model 2 582 N99KX
>
> ---------------------------------
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
>
>
---------------------------------
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Message 34
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Rodgers" <brodg@texas.net>
Pestilence, starvation, rampant endemic disease, collapse of civilization as
we know it......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Crowder" <jimlc@att.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>
> At 11:13 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote:
> >Loose the term in-flight adjustable... electric adjustable.
> >
> >Fly Safe !!
> >John McBean
>
> What are the ramifications of this?
>
> Jim Crowder
>
>
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