---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/12/06: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:19 AM - Re: 912UL coming out of storage (Brett Walmsley) 2. 04:52 AM - Re: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! (Fox5flyer) 3. 04:57 AM - Re: Rotax 582 - Static RPM (Fox5flyer) 4. 05:20 AM - Re: Rotax 582 - Static RPM (Bradley M Webb) 5. 05:23 AM - Re: Kitfox handling problems Wh wiat! (Bradley M Webb) 6. 05:55 AM - Re: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! DAR & repairmans (flier) 7. 05:55 AM - Re: DAR is wrong (flier) 8. 06:56 AM - Re: 912UL coming out of storage (Eric) 9. 07:02 AM - Re: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! (Wwillyard@aol.com) 10. 07:07 AM - Re: 912UL coming out of storage (Wwillyard@AOL.COM) 11. 08:05 AM - Re: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! (Tom Jones) 12. 08:27 AM - fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? (scooby harrington) 13. 09:01 AM - Re: fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? (Alan & Linda Daniels) 14. 09:16 AM - Re: DAR is wrong (Alan & Linda Daniels) 15. 09:28 AM - [Off-topic] Today's flight (Michel Verheughe) 16. 09:32 AM - Re: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! (Lowell Fitt) 17. 09:41 AM - Re: fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? (Lowell Fitt) 18. 10:25 AM - Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream (RichWill) 19. 10:25 AM - Re: [Off-topic] Today's flight (DC91840@aol.com) 20. 10:42 AM - Re: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream (DC91840@AOL.COM) 21. 10:48 AM - Re: [Off-topic] Today's flight (Lowell Fitt) 22. 11:05 AM - Re: fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? (Clint Bazzill) 23. 11:07 AM - Re: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream (Clint Bazzill) 24. 12:06 PM - Re: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream (RichWill) 25. 12:27 PM - Re: [Off-topic] Today's flight (Bradley M Webb) 26. 12:51 PM - Model 5 sale (Comp User) 27. 01:13 PM - Re: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream (Eric) 28. 02:33 PM - Wind screen (Graeme Toft) 29. 02:50 PM - Re: Wind screen (wingsdown) 30. 03:31 PM - Re: Wind screen (Dave and Diane) 31. 04:20 PM - Middle Georgia? (Michael Logan) 32. 04:29 PM - Re: Wind screen (Clem Nichols) 33. 05:17 PM - Airworthiness Certificate (Rex Shaw) 34. 05:24 PM - Re: Wind screen (Lowell Fitt) 35. 05:39 PM - Wing Tips (Dave and Diane) 36. 05:59 PM - Re: [Off-topic] Today's flight (John King) 37. 06:13 PM - Re: 912UL coming out of storage (Brett Walmsley) 38. 06:22 PM - Re: Wind screen (Lowell Fitt) 39. 06:22 PM - Re: [Off-topic] Today's flight (Cudnohufsky's) 40. 06:33 PM - Re: Wing Tips (Lowell Fitt) 41. 07:06 PM - 582 Oil Consumption (jareds) 42. 09:39 PM - Re: Wind screen (Clint Bazzill) 43. 09:42 PM - Re: Wind screen (Graeme Toft) 44. 10:49 PM - Re: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! (John Anderson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:55 AM PST US From: "Brett Walmsley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912UL coming out of storage --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" Clem, I am in the same situation. My engine is 10 years old and had never left the box until two weeks ago. I called Lockwood and asked Kerry the same questions. Regarding the internal stuff he said look in the spark plug holes. see how it looks. If you remove the gear reduction you can see into the crank case. I did this because I was putting in the vacuum pump drive gear. One thing I did was put oil in the crankcase (1/2 to 3/4 quart) and roll the engine around. I mean physically roll it over. My main concern was the lifter faces. Then I took out the spark plugs and sprayed LPS 3 in the cylinders and hooked up a battery and cranked it. I got the oil in by hooking clear plastic tube to the oil inlet and pouring oil into the tube until I had enough in the engine by hand cranking. Then I hooked the tube to the return. People will tell you it won't pump with the spark plugs out, but it will if the pump is primed. After doing all of this I feel reasonably confident it will be just fine. There are however some Service Bulletins and Letters you may need to look into. 1. Stator (not bad $100+) (special puller) 2. Rocker arms (expensive, $800+) (special tools) 3. Carb floats 4. Dipstick There may be more. I have the special tools if you need to borrow them Brett ----- Original Message ----- From: "clemwehner" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:54 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: 912UL coming out of storage > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner" > > > I've had a 912UL sitting in my garage for 9 years in basically the > condition it came to me from the factory. My garage is air conditioned > as part of the house and the humidity here in Oklahoma is usually less > than 45 % dropping to 20-30 % during the winter months. > > I have begun work to finish the last 20% of my Kitfox IV construction > and need to know what I should do to the engine. > > Does it need to go to a Rotax service center for teardown, or is it > likely to be OK to use as is? > > Also, do I need to replace all the hoses that were put on it back then > (fuel, water, oil)? > > Anyone with experience like this? > > Thanks for the advice, > > Clem > Lawton, Oklahoma > KF IV-1050, 912UL > On this list daily since 1993 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:05 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Lynn, congrats on the sign-off. As for what the DAR says, it sounds bogus to me. On both of my sign-offs the FAA rep did the paperwork right there on the spot, gave me a carbon for proof of Repairman's Certificate, and the permanent certificate came in the mail about 2 weeks later. Nothing was said about not being able to work on that. I don't know the actual wording in the regs, but I doubt that he's right. Deke Still snowed in, but melting fast. NE Michigan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:46 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Thanks Brett and all... > > Yeah I started after you, but I seem to recall that you have a job and > other time-consuming obligations, which I don't have, so I was able to > "give it a go" for big stretches of time at a time. Now it's time to go > after that Sport Pilot rating with great gusto so I can fly a few of > the mandated 40 hrs off myself, instead of watching someone else do > that. > > Funny part about getting the AC though....the DAR says that because it > is now an airplane, I can't legally work on it, or make entries in the > log book regarding maintenance, until after the 40 is flown off, and I > have then turned in my maintenance paperwork, and in so doing, acquire > the permit to maintain it....strange, ain't it....I build the damn > thing, and now I can't work on it!...legally. > > Lynn > Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 > > On Saturday, March 11, 2006, at 08:17 PM, Brett Walmsley wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" > > > > Way to go Lynn. > > You started after me. And I'm just hanging the engine. You really made > > good > > time. > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:51 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 - Static RPM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Greensky Adventures, another guru who's been in the 582 business longer than the Kitfox has been around, always recommended 5800 WOT static. It quickly climbs once the wheels leave the ground. It keeps the EGTs down and gives decent cruise at 58-6000 rpm. Climb rpm is determined by climb speed and angle. Worked well for me for 400 hours with GSC prop. Other props may need different numbers. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:54 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 - Static RPM > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com > > > In a message dated 3/11/2006 9:50:01 P.M. Central Standard Time, > f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net writes: > > Most of you are talking about rpm at cruise. What should be the max rpm tied > to the ground? Static rpm? > > > Not at Cruise WOT in Best Climb speed. > > I never have tied my plane down and Run it a WOT. Initial RPM on TO roll is > a bit over 6,000 and quickly climbs as plane accelerates. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:25 AM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 - Static RPM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" This may explain why my KF2/582 grey/IVO 66" shows such a high cruise speed at 5800 rpm (88mph). From these posts, it is obvious my prop has too much pitch. On climb-out, I see 6100 max at 70 mph. I get about 1000fpm solo at this setting. I bet if I pitch it to 6500, I'd go vertical. Nice thing about these props, easy to re-pitch where you want it. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aerobatics@aol.com Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:10 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 - Static RPM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com In a message dated 3/11/2006 6:11:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net writes: Can anyone tell me what the maximum static rpm should be for a Rotax 582 in a Kitfox lll. Also top rpm on take off? I turn 6,500 at 55 MPH during climb out...... I talked to Lockwood.... a fine Rotax outfit, they say I should be at 6,700 and see a big increase in power.... I have to tell ya... it scoots at 6,500.......... Good luck Dave KF2 582 Blue Head E Box ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:50 AM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox handling problems Wh wiat! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Nah, I'll just go ahead and do it! The math takes too much time away from flying... Bradley >>> I may go ahead and put my battery in the tail. Bradley That's a drastic change! the ratio of nose to tail weight can be as high as 6 to one or more. Adding a 10 lbs battery in tail could be the same as 60 in nose..... you could make the plane tail heavy a very bad thing.......... calculate first! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:47 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! DAR & repairmans --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" A DAR can no longer do the Repairmans cert. I was in the same situation with my Nieuport airworthiness last Sept. I have to go down to the FSDO and have them do the Repairmans. Same sit with a bud of mine. The repairmans only gives you the right to sign off an annual anyway. All maintenance can be done by the owner so there's no need for one until the annual arrives... Regards, Ted -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:50 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Lynn, congrats on the sign-off. As for what the DAR says, it sounds bogus to me. On both of my sign-offs the FAA rep did the paperwork right there on the spot, gave me a carbon for proof of Repairman's Certificate, and the permanent certificate came in the mail about 2 weeks later. Nothing was said about not being able to work on that. I don't know the actual wording in the regs, but I doubt that he's right. Deke Still snowed in, but melting fast. NE Michigan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:46 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Thanks Brett and all... > > Yeah I started after you, but I seem to recall that you have a job and > other time-consuming obligations, which I don't have, so I was able to > "give it a go" for big stretches of time at a time. Now it's time to go > after that Sport Pilot rating with great gusto so I can fly a few of > the mandated 40 hrs off myself, instead of watching someone else do > that. > > Funny part about getting the AC though....the DAR says that because it > is now an airplane, I can't legally work on it, or make entries in the > log book regarding maintenance, until after the 40 is flown off, and I > have then turned in my maintenance paperwork, and in so doing, acquire > the permit to maintain it....strange, ain't it....I build the damn > thing, and now I can't work on it!...legally. > > Lynn > Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 > > On Saturday, March 11, 2006, at 08:17 PM, Brett Walmsley wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" > > > > Way to go Lynn. > > You started after me. And I'm just hanging the engine. You really made > > good > > time. > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:48 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: DAR is wrong --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Definately! Lynn you can do everything except sign the annual which isn't due for another year now that he's signed it off... -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan & Linda Daniels Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: DAR is wrong --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels The DAR is wrong. You can do all the work except the annual inspection which is not due for a year until you get your repairman's certificate. I can't believe he would tell you that nonsense. Call EAA, they can give you chapter and verse. That is of course if it is experimental amateur built. I am sure someone on the list will jump in with the FAR's. I will in the AM if no one else has. Lynn Matteson wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > >Thanks Brett and all... > >Yeah I started after you, but I seem to recall that you have a job and >other time-consuming obligations, which I don't have, so I was able to >"give it a go" for big stretches of time at a time. Now it's time to go >after that Sport Pilot rating with great gusto so I can fly a few of >the mandated 40 hrs off myself, instead of watching someone else do >that. > >Funny part about getting the AC though....the DAR says that because it >is now an airplane, I can't legally work on it, or make entries in the >log book regarding maintenance, until after the 40 is flown off, and I >have then turned in my maintenance paperwork, and in so doing, acquire >the permit to maintain it....strange, ain't it....I build the damn >thing, and now I can't work on it!...legally. > >Lynn >Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 > >On Saturday, March 11, 2006, at 08:17 PM, Brett Walmsley wrote: > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" >> >>Way to go Lynn. >>You started after me. And I'm just hanging the engine. You really made >>good >>time. >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:49 AM PST US From: "Eric" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912UL coming out of storage --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" Brett, I am familiar with the Service Letters on Stator and Rocker Arms but have not heard about Carb Floats or Dipstick. What are those about? Eric ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Walmsley" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:15 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912UL coming out of storage > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" > > Clem, > I am in the same situation. My engine is 10 years old and had never left > the > box until two weeks ago. I called Lockwood and asked Kerry the same > questions. Regarding the internal stuff he said look in the spark plug > holes. see how it looks. If you remove the gear reduction you can see into > the crank case. I did this because I was putting in the vacuum pump drive > gear. One thing I did was put oil in the crankcase (1/2 to 3/4 quart) and > roll the engine around. I mean physically roll it over. My main concern > was > the lifter faces. Then I took out the spark plugs and sprayed LPS 3 in the > cylinders and hooked up a battery and cranked it. I got the oil in by > hooking clear plastic tube to the oil inlet and pouring oil into the tube > until I had enough in the engine by hand cranking. Then I hooked the tube > to > the return. People will tell you it won't pump with the spark plugs out, > but > it will if the pump is primed. > After doing all of this I feel reasonably confident it will be just fine. > There are however some Service Bulletins and Letters you may need to look > into. > 1. Stator (not bad $100+) (special puller) > 2. Rocker arms (expensive, $800+) (special tools) > 3. Carb floats > 4. Dipstick > There may be more. I have the special tools if you need to borrow them > Brett > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "clemwehner" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:54 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: 912UL coming out of storage > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner" >> >> >> >> I've had a 912UL sitting in my garage for 9 years in basically the >> condition it came to me from the factory. My garage is air conditioned >> as part of the house and the humidity here in Oklahoma is usually less >> than 45 % dropping to 20-30 % during the winter months. >> >> I have begun work to finish the last 20% of my Kitfox IV construction >> and need to know what I should do to the engine. >> >> Does it need to go to a Rotax service center for teardown, or is it >> likely to be OK to use as is? >> >> Also, do I need to replace all the hoses that were put on it back then >> (fuel, water, oil)? >> >> Anyone with experience like this? >> >> Thanks for the advice, >> >> Clem >> Lawton, Oklahoma >> KF IV-1050, 912UL >> On this list daily since 1993 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:26 AM PST US From: Wwillyard@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com Funny part about getting the AC though....the DAR says that because it is now an airplane, I can't legally work on it, or make entries in the log book regarding maintenance, until after the 40 is flown off, and I have then turned in my maintenance paperwork, and in so doing, acquire the permit to maintain it....strange, ain't it....I build the damn thing, and now I can't work on it!...legally. Lynn Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 Lunn; Congratulations, it's really a nice feeling. I applied for my repairman's certificate concurrently with the inspection and was issued a temporary repairman's certificate on the spot. There sure isn't any consistency in the process. Bill W. Classic IV 912ul ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:40 AM PST US From: Wwillyard@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912UL coming out of storage --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com I've had a 912UL sitting in my garage for 9 years in basically the condition it came to me from the factory. My garage is air conditioned as part of the house and the humidity here in Oklahoma is usually less than 45 % dropping to 20-30 % during the winter months. I have begun work to finish the last 20% of my Kitfox IV construction and need to know what I should do to the engine. Does it need to go to a Rotax service center for teardown, or is it likely to be OK to use as is? Also, do I need to replace all the hoses that were put on it back then (fuel, water, oil)? Anyone with experience like this? Thanks for the advice, Clem Lawton, Oklahoma KF IV-1050, 912UL On this list daily since 1993 Clem; My 912 sat in my garage in Michigan for 6 years and has been operating for more than 250 hours with no problems. Bill W. Classic IV 912ul ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:50 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! From: "Tom Jones" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" Lynn Your DAR is full of beans about working on the plane now. Anyone can work on an Experimental. You just need to have the Repairman's Certificate to sign the logbook for the Annual. You do need to apply to your FISDO for the Repairman's Certificate. Congratulations on the AC Tom Jones Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21223#21223 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:09 AM PST US From: "scooby harrington" Subject: Kitfox-List: fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" I'm trying to find a good spot for the fixed external ELT antenna for my Ameriking AK-450 but I can't seem to find a spot that satisfies all the constraints listed in the manual. On the series 6, the two antenna mounting plates on the top of the fuselage are 26" apart but the ELT manual says that it needs to be 36" from any vertically polarized comm antenna. What have others done? I'm thinking I might have to compromise on the 36" antenna spacing and put the ELT antenna at the mounting plate at the back edge of the turtle deck so that I can mount the ELT unit behind the seats where it can be very rigidly attached and the antenna run can be short. Thanks! Scooby ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:01 AM PST US From: Alan & Linda Daniels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels On a tube a fabric plane just zip tie the antenna inside the fuselage behind the cargo area. I have my antenna pointed straight back, which will probably be straight up in a wreck. Use plastic tubing to make sure it does not ground to the tubing. The reason you do this is in a wreck you do not know which way will be up, and chances are that you might just stick the antenna in the mud and it will not transmit well. If it is protected by the aircraft frame it will always transmit well enough to get picked up by the satellite and by the rescue crew. If you are upright and can get around You can use the mobile antenna and the voice transmit feature. I know people will say the book says, outside fixed, vertical, and all, but In all the wrecks I have seen that is the worst place for it to survive a still transmit. scooby harrington wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" > >I'm trying to find a good spot for the fixed external ELT antenna for my >Ameriking >AK-450 but I can't seem to find a spot that satisfies all the constraints >listed in the >manual. On the series 6, the two antenna mounting plates on the top of the >fuselage >are 26" apart but the ELT manual says that it needs to be 36" from any >vertically >polarized comm antenna. What have others done? > >I'm thinking I might have to compromise on the 36" antenna spacing and put >the >ELT antenna at the mounting plate at the back edge of the turtle deck so >that I >can mount the ELT unit behind the seats where it can be very rigidly >attached and >the antenna run can be short. > >Thanks! > >Scooby > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:43 AM PST US From: Alan & Linda Daniels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: DAR is wrong --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels It is Part 43 Section D I think. The only FAR's I have at home are AOPA and they omit that section. I will get my full copy from the office. The time you need to really work on your plane IS during the 40 hour fly off. It is the exact time you need to debug and adjust. At a very minimum you will need to re torque the prop bolts after an hour or so. Every plane I have seen needs a little fine tuning and fixing a few little things. This almost makes me mad and it could cause unnecessary risk, and it has enough risk as it is. Suggestion. First flight is just in and above the pattern, then land and check the plane over. If it looks good and you are up to it fly it in a safe area for another half hour or so and then take it to the hangar, kick everyone out, lock the door, pull the cowl and look it over really well with a flashlight. Then pull up a chair and just sit with her for half an hour or so thinking about the sounds and vibrations of the flight. When you get completely relaxed with her then you can let others in. EXTREME caution and Attention to detail is required for safe test flying. If you are too scared have someone with a lot of experience in the plane do the first test flying, if you are not a little scared you are too stupid to do the test flying. Attention to detail and a professional approach will do you well. flier wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" > >Definately! Lynn you can do everything except sign the annual which isn't >due for another year now that he's signed it off... > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan & Linda >Daniels >Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:59 PM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: DAR is wrong > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels > >The DAR is wrong. You can do all the work except the annual inspection >which is not due for a year until you get your repairman's certificate. >I can't believe he would tell you that nonsense. Call EAA, they can give >you chapter and verse. That is of course if it is experimental amateur >built. I am sure someone on the list will jump in with the FAR's. I will >in the AM if no one else has. > >Lynn Matteson wrote: > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson >> >>Thanks Brett and all... >> >>Yeah I started after you, but I seem to recall that you have a job and >>other time-consuming obligations, which I don't have, so I was able to >>"give it a go" for big stretches of time at a time. Now it's time to go >>after that Sport Pilot rating with great gusto so I can fly a few of >>the mandated 40 hrs off myself, instead of watching someone else do >>that. >> >>Funny part about getting the AC though....the DAR says that because it >>is now an airplane, I can't legally work on it, or make entries in the >>log book regarding maintenance, until after the 40 is flown off, and I >>have then turned in my maintenance paperwork, and in so doing, acquire >>the permit to maintain it....strange, ain't it....I build the damn >>thing, and now I can't work on it!...legally. >> >>Lynn >>Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 >> >>On Saturday, March 11, 2006, at 08:17 PM, Brett Walmsley wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" >>> >>>Way to go Lynn. >>>You started after me. And I'm just hanging the engine. You really made >>>good >>>time. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:40 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Hello listers, I went flying today and here are some photos. http://home.online.no/~michel/winter/ Nothing special, just some photos of winter Norway. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:10 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Congratulations to Lynn and John. I'm sure the feelings are great about now and will proably get a bit better with the report of the first flight. Looking forward to that. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Anderson" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > > > > Congrats Lynn, that's two of us as I have JUST received mine!! Great > feeling > after 7 years a fun, toil and every emotion one could name. First flight > in > a few days, just when I get my first day off and a nice day all in one. > John > A. Series 5 TD > > > From: Lynn Matteson > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! > Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:39:09 -0500 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > They tell me that I now have an airplane! I just got my AC, and now > I'm a real airplane owner, not a project owner. It'll still be a > project, but I'm that much closer to having something to fly...as soon > as I get done with flight instruction, that is...and get the 40 hrs > flown off, etc, etc.... > It's only been 18 and a half months, but it seems like an eternity > since I drove to Texas and picked up this project, and now it's ready > for test flying. One of these days I'll clean up the shop, but for now > it's time to celebrate. > > Lynn > Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 > > > Need a new job? Check out XtraMSN Careers http://xtramsn.co.nz/careers > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:08 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Scooby, I did as Alan did - almost. I made a little bracket that mounts to the convergence of the frame tubing just aft of the seat on the passenger side and mounted the antenna internally up-side-down. With a little length of rib lacing cord tying the end to the lower frame to keep it from whipping around. I like the internal protection Alan describes, but expect the signal to be somewhat less, being inside the frame. Like Alan, I feel a possibly weaker predictable signal to be better than a strong signal stuck in the ground by an inverted airplane. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan & Linda Daniels" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels > > > On a tube a fabric plane just zip tie the antenna inside the fuselage > behind the cargo area. I have my antenna pointed straight back, which > will probably be straight up in a wreck. Use plastic tubing to make sure > it does not ground to the tubing. The reason you do this is in a wreck > you do not know which way will be up, and chances are that you might > just stick the antenna in the mud and it will not transmit well. If it > is protected by the aircraft frame it will always transmit well enough > to get picked up by the satellite and by the rescue crew. If you are > upright and can get around You can use the mobile antenna and the voice > transmit feature. I know people will say the book says, outside fixed, > vertical, and all, but In all the wrecks I have seen that is the worst > place for it to survive a still transmit. > > scooby harrington wrote: > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" >> >> >>I'm trying to find a good spot for the fixed external ELT antenna for my >>Ameriking >>AK-450 but I can't seem to find a spot that satisfies all the constraints >>listed in the >>manual. On the series 6, the two antenna mounting plates on the top of the >>fuselage >>are 26" apart but the ELT manual says that it needs to be 36" from any >>vertically >>polarized comm antenna. What have others done? >> >>I'm thinking I might have to compromise on the 36" antenna spacing and put >>the >>ELT antenna at the mounting plate at the back edge of the turtle deck so >>that I >>can mount the ELT unit behind the seats where it can be very rigidly >>attached and >>the antenna run can be short. >> >>Thanks! >> >>Scooby >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:20 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream From: "RichWill" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RichWill" After "carefully" fussing over several hours of fitting a brand new formed windshield onto my KF3, I was down to the final fitting and trimming... when one final push and tweak.... boom! I cracked the windshield right at the curve on the leading edge attach point.. It's a 4 inch crack headed inboard... Any suggestion, recommendation on repairing, stopping the crack from continuing, masking, filling in so it's not noticeable... OR am I stuck with a $500 piece of plastics scrap?? Rich Kennebunk Maine :x Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21263#21263 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:21 AM PST US From: DC91840@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: DC91840@aol.com In a message dated 3/12/2006 11:29:27 AM Central Standard Time, michel@online.no writes: http://home.online.no/~michel/winter/ Michel: These pics are fantastic. What a view and from a Kitfox to boot. Wish I were there. Thanks ; Don C. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:37 AM PST US From: DC91840@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream --> Kitfox-List message posted by: DC91840@aol.com Rich: You can stop the crack by drilling a 1/8" dia. hole at the very end of the crack. Then deburr the hole to make the edges very smooth. I have a couple of cracks in a similar area and didn't attempt any further repair and they have not spread. Doesn't look nice but has apparently has relieved the stress in this area. My 2 cents Don C. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:57 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Michel, Thanks for the report and the opportunity to see your home from the air. I wish I could have flown today. Cameron Park got 4 inches of snow overnight a real rare experience - last time Winter of 1997 with an inch or so then. I'd love to have pics from the air. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:27 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Hello listers, > I went flying today and here are some photos. > > http://home.online.no/~michel/winter/ > > Nothing special, just some photos of winter Norway. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:55 AM PST US From: "Clint Bazzill" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" I have my ELT antenna in the frame behind the seat. I got a call at 1:30 AM last Sunday from the Half Moon Bay Police Dept. I had my airplane tied down at the airport and the wind was so strong it set off my elt. So it does work inside the aircraft. Clint From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Scooby, I did as Alan did - almost. I made a little bracket that mounts to the convergence of the frame tubing just aft of the seat on the passenger side and mounted the antenna internally up-side-down. With a little length of rib lacing cord tying the end to the lower frame to keep it from whipping around. I like the internal protection Alan describes, but expect the signal to be somewhat less, being inside the frame. Like Alan, I feel a possibly weaker predictable signal to be better than a strong signal stuck in the ground by an inverted airplane. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan & Linda Daniels" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fixed ELT antenna location on Series 6? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels > > > On a tube a fabric plane just zip tie the antenna inside the fuselage > behind the cargo area. I have my antenna pointed straight back, which > will probably be straight up in a wreck. Use plastic tubing to make sure > it does not ground to the tubing. The reason you do this is in a wreck > you do not know which way will be up, and chances are that you might > just stick the antenna in the mud and it will not transmit well. If it > is protected by the aircraft frame it will always transmit well enough > to get picked up by the satellite and by the rescue crew. If you are > upright and can get around You can use the mobile antenna and the voice > transmit feature. I know people will say the book says, outside fixed, > vertical, and all, but In all the wrecks I have seen that is the worst > place for it to survive a still transmit. > > scooby harrington wrote: > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" >> >> >>I'm trying to find a good spot for the fixed external ELT antenna for my >>Ameriking >>AK-450 but I can't seem to find a spot that satisfies all the constraints >>listed in the >>manual. On the series 6, the two antenna mounting plates on the top of the >>fuselage >>are 26" apart but the ELT manual says that it needs to be 36" from any >>vertically >>polarized comm antenna. What have others done? >> >>I'm thinking I might have to compromise on the 36" antenna spacing and put >>the >>ELT antenna at the mounting plate at the back edge of the turtle deck so >>that I >>can mount the ELT unit behind the seats where it can be very rigidly >>attached and >>the antenna run can be short. >> >>Thanks! >> >>Scooby >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:36 AM PST US From: "Clint Bazzill" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" How come the Lexan cost that much. I bought a half sheet of 1/4 inch (by mistake) thought it was 3/16 and installed it on my model IV. No problem, did increase my VNE to 140 though. My Lexan from Tapp Plactics was about 60 or 70 dollars. Clint From: "RichWill" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RichWill" After "carefully" fussing over several hours of fitting a brand new formed windshield onto my KF3, I was down to the final fitting and trimming... when one final push and tweak.... boom! I cracked the windshield right at the curve on the leading edge attach point.. It's a 4 inch crack headed inboard... Any suggestion, recommendation on repairing, stopping the crack from continuing, masking, filling in so it's not noticeable... OR am I stuck with a $500 piece of plastics scrap?? Rich Kennebunk Maine :x Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21263#21263 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:32 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream From: "RichWill" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RichWill" P/N 1334 Windshield - One Piece with Overhead, extends from cowling to turtledeck - Heat Formed tinted... $380.60 Clear $456.90 Tint Plus shipping.... Nice but, expensive...agreed. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21280#21280 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:43 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Well, you can feel even more jealous...a balmy 80 degrees and calm here in Middle Georgia. As soon as I finish this note, I'm off to the airport to log some time. All but you, Michel. I wish our landscape was as gorgeous as that. And take heart, Lowell. I miss the occasional snowball fight with the kids. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:47 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Michel, Thanks for the report and the opportunity to see your home from the air. I wish I could have flown today. Cameron Park got 4 inches of snow overnight a real rare experience - last time Winter of 1997 with an inch or so then. I'd love to have pics from the air. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:27 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Hello listers, > I went flying today and here are some photos. > > http://home.online.no/~michel/winter/ > > Nothing special, just some photos of winter Norway. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:48 PM PST US From: "Comp User" Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 5 sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" Financial situation forces sale of my mod 5. Contact me off list for details. It would be good for a group to buy and use for parts. trebla@directinter.net Albert ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:48 PM PST US From: "Eric" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" Rich, with a magnifying glass find where the crack ends, then go 1/4" in front of it and drill a 1/8" hole. This should guarantee that your crack will not go beyond this point. Next , drill a #40 or smaller hole on each side of the crack close to the edge of your windshield ( hopefully these holes will be covered up later by the edge fairing) You will use these holes to lace your crack together after working some Plexiglas glue into the crack. When working the glue in be careful not to make it crack beyond the stop drill . Use .020 safety wire for lacing. You may not be able to get the glue all the way to the end of the crack but if you get any at all in there it will keep the two halves from moving and propagating the crack. Access glue can be later removed with a razor blade and buffed. Eric ----- Original Message ----- From: "RichWill" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:24 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Fitting Formed Windshield - I Could Just Scream > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RichWill" > > After "carefully" fussing over several hours of fitting a brand new formed > windshield onto my KF3, I was down to the final fitting and trimming... > when one final push and tweak.... boom! > > I cracked the windshield right at the curve on the leading edge attach > point.. It's a 4 inch crack headed inboard... > > Any suggestion, recommendation on repairing, stopping the crack from > continuing, masking, filling in so it's not noticeable... OR am I stuck > with a $500 piece of plastics scrap?? > > Rich > Kennebunk Maine :x > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21263#21263 > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:07 PM PST US From: "Graeme Toft" Subject: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" Hi guys, Iv'e noticed this thread a couple of times now on wind screens and their thickness but didnt realise that this issue is related to VNE. I will be replacing mine as a last task before getting airborne again. Why is the thickness an issue with VNE. I assume it is because of possible distortion and the potential for failure. Is this correct and what thickness should I order if I want to increase VNE. The current windscreen is 3/16th and I believe it is from the factory. Cheers Graeme ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:16 PM PST US From: "wingsdown" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" The windshield alone is only one small factor in Vne. I would be more concerned with control surfaces and aileron flutter. No doubt a better windsheild is better. Still some debate on materials and thickness. Not good to try to intall any of the non lexan in cold temps. Hot days and patients are the best if possible. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graeme Toft Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" Hi guys, Iv'e noticed this thread a couple of times now on wind screens and their thickness ................ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:49 PM PST US From: Dave and Diane Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane Graem, I don't know that I can contribute much to the windscreen vs Vne issue. Vne is a design parameter which is defined by whatever becomes a problem first when adding speed. I don't know enough about the design limits of our airplanes to even guess if a thicker windshield would get you out there further or not. I don't think my engine will push me to Vne anyway on 100hp. The wind screen I paid for twice (once to Skystar & once to John Mc Bean who got the job done for me) is the 3/16" thick version. I would always gravitate towards the thickest one available simply because thicker provides more resistance to object penetration - whatever that object may be which chooses to get in front of my windshield - rocks on takeoff, golf balls, June bugs (which make a pretty good snap on the window at 100MPH) or English weaver finch. I realize that with the operational speeds of a Kitfox - birds have at least half a chance of getting out of our way - but if they don't it's not good. I have seen a Cessna 172 which ruined a Canada goose's day on the Cessna's short final and a Bellanca which took a mallard through the windscreen at cruise speed and the mallard parts didn't stop till the pink mist coagulated in the end of the tail cone - you just can't get a thick enough windscreen to keep those things out so the object penetration thing is sort of relative rather than absolute. Obviously, resistance to object penetration is a function of materials too (polycarbonate holds up much better than acrylic - everything else being the same) - but that is my main reason to avoid a lighter windscreen. Sincerely, Dave S St Paul, MN Do Not Archive On Sunday 12 March 2006 4:29 pm, Graeme Toft wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" > > Hi guys, Iv'e noticed this thread a couple of times now on wind screens and > their thickness but didnt realise that this issue is related to VNE. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:55 PM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Logan" Bradley, Where in Middle Georgia are you located? I grew up in Warner Robins and get back there a couple of times a year. It can get hot and steamy for long periods of time in the summer. Mike Logan Series 5 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradley M Webb Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Well, you can feel even more jealous...a balmy 80 degrees and calm here in Middle Georgia. As soon as I finish this note, I'm off to the airport to log some time. All but you, Michel. I wish our landscape was as gorgeous as that. And take heart, Lowell. I miss the occasional snowball fight with the kids. Bradley ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:02 PM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" With the crazing on my present windscreen, I realize it's just a matter of time before I'll be forced to replace it. If I remember previous posts, the acrylic is more resistant to scratches, etc., than the polycarbonate, and obviously the acrylic can be ordered preformed whereas the polycarbonate (lexan?) comes in a flat sheet and requires a good deal of work to make it fit. Moreover, the polycarbonate is not tinted (can it be ordered that way?), whereas apparently the acrylic can be. In the summertime when I do most of my flying I sometimes find myself wishing I had a little shade over my head. If I remember correctly the polycarbonate can be damaged by glue-on sun screens, and I've had no luck with the screens that are held on by static electricity. Thanks in advance. Clem Nichols ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave and Diane" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane > > Graem, > > I don't know that I can contribute much to the windscreen vs Vne issue. > Vne is > a design parameter which is defined by whatever becomes a problem first > when > adding speed. I don't know enough about the design limits of our airplanes > to > even guess if a thicker windshield would get you out there further or not. > I > don't think my engine will push me to Vne anyway on 100hp. > > The wind screen I paid for twice (once to Skystar & once to John Mc Bean > who > got the job done for me) is the 3/16" thick version. I would always > gravitate towards the thickest one available simply because thicker > provides > more resistance to object penetration - whatever that object may be which > chooses to get in front of my windshield - rocks on takeoff, golf balls, > June > bugs (which make a pretty good snap on the window at 100MPH) or English > weaver finch. I realize that with the operational speeds of a Kitfox - > birds > have at least half a chance of getting out of our way - but if they don't > it's not good. I have seen a Cessna 172 which ruined a Canada goose's day > on > the Cessna's short final and a Bellanca which took a mallard through the > windscreen at cruise speed and the mallard parts didn't stop till the pink > mist coagulated in the end of the tail cone - you just can't get a thick > enough windscreen to keep those things out so the object penetration thing > is > sort of relative rather than absolute. Obviously, resistance to object > penetration is a function of materials too (polycarbonate holds up much > better than acrylic - everything else being the same) - but that is my > main > reason to avoid a lighter windscreen. > > Sincerely, > > Dave S > St Paul, MN > > Do Not Archive > > On Sunday 12 March 2006 4:29 pm, Graeme Toft wrote: >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" >> >> Hi guys, Iv'e noticed this thread a couple of times now on wind screens >> and >> their thickness but didnt realise that this issue is related to VNE. > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:58 PM PST US From: "Rex Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Airworthiness Certificate --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Shaw" They tell me that I now have an airplane! I just got my AC, and now I'm a real airplane owner, not a project owner. It'll still be a project, but I'm that much closer to having something to fly...as soon as I get done with flight instruction, that is...and get the 40 hrs flown off, etc, etc.... It's only been 18 and a half months, but it seems like an eternity since I drove to Texas and picked up this project, and now it's ready for test flying. One of these days I'll clean up the shop, but for now it's time to celebrate. Lynn Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 Congratulations Lynn, there will be no stopping you now. Have lot's of fun, Rex. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:31 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Hi Greame, I think a little clarification here is in order. With the Model IV the kits came with two thicknesses of the Lexan (Polycarbonate) wind sheild (screen for you, i guess). This was a flat sheet that was cut to shape and bent over the front area and actoss the wing root area and then back to cover the skylight. The two thicknesses were .060 and .093 inches. The .060 was used on the standard long wing IV -VNE 125 and the short wing speedster - VNE 135. Discussion in the past has suggested that the windshield thickness, was at least in part, a VNE design issue - a tendency for the thinner material diforming at high speeds. I have the .060, and have replaced it once about 200 hours ago. The first windshield was in use over 500 hours and the reason for the replacement was the large scratch that appeared in the building process - I just got tired of looking at it. I have flown at near VNE - my airspeed indicatoronly goes to 120 and I try to limit my speed to that - and I doubt anyone could convince me of the need for the .093. I do see some wind effects on the Lexan at high speeds and some prop pulse effects, but it doesn't bother me. I think the thicker windshields mentioned in the inch fraction range are the ones from LP Aeroplastics and they are not Lexan, but Acrylic. Acrylic does have some advantages relating to ease of polishing out minor scratches, but the stuff is very brittle and extremely unforgiving and must be handled very carefully. For strength it has to be a quantum leap thicker or what will merely deform the lexan for an immediate bounce back will break the acrylic. I run (fly) with a group of "light" airplanes - mine is the heaviest and I sometimes wonder why the bigger and heavier seems to often get the nod even where there is no demonstrated benefit. I recall of one Lexan windshield splitting from top to bottom for some reason. It was cleverly field repaired and the flight went on. That one incident was not reason enough for me to go thicker or heavier and definitely not more expensive. Keep in mind that this is for a fairly quick Model IV and I have no opinions on the subject regarding the heavier airplanes. regards, Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Toft" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Wind screen > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" > > Hi guys, Iv'e noticed this thread a couple of times now on wind screens > and their thickness but didnt realise that this issue is related to VNE. I > will be replacing mine as a last task before getting airborne again. Why > is the thickness an issue with VNE. I assume it is because of possible > distortion and the potential for failure. Is this correct and what > thickness should I order if I want to increase VNE. The current windscreen > is 3/16th and I believe it is from the factory. > > Cheers > > Graeme > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:02 PM PST US From: Dave and Diane Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Tips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane Good evening folks, I have a question on the wingtips supplied by Skystar in 2004. Does anyone know what kind of resin they used in the fiberglass wingtips - polyester or epoxy? I am guessing polyester, but am curious to know for sure because I will be doing some modification and want to keep the chemical compatibility issues organized. Thanks, Dave S St Paul; MN ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:18 PM PST US From: John King Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King Michel, They are very beautiful scenes of winter in Norway. Two weeks ago a friend of mine in his Champ and I in my Kitfox flew from Virginia to the state of Maine. The trip was just over 600 nautical miles, cold turbulent, with headwinds most of the way . We were invited there by another pilot who just happens to be the owner of a large lodge on the largest lake (Mooselhead Lake) in northern Maine. The lakes up there are of course frozen two feet thick. Neither of our aircraft had skies only wheels and I had wheel pants. Although there was an airport 30 miles away on the southern end of the lake, we were told to land on the lake ice in front of the lodge. I never knew you could land with wheels on ice successfully, but we had no problem. Of course we could not use brakes and had to shut the engine down after touchdown, otherwise it would not stop with the engine at idle. We spent a week flying the lakes of northern Maine and landing on the ice to visit friends and stopping to eat lunch at restaurants on the lakes. They ice fish the lakes, so we had to always do a low flyby and check for fish holes and warn the snowmobilier's we were about to land. The snow on the ice was light fluffy snow from zero to two inches. If it was heavy snow we would have had to have skies. The temperature at night would go below zero degrees F. On our flight home the OAT was -11F at 4000 ft. My 912S had no problems with the cold temperatures. I will send you some pictures to your e-mail address of the Kitfox and Champ on the ice with wheels. -- John King Warrenton, VA Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >Hello listers, >I went flying today and here are some photos. > >http://home.online.no/~michel/winter/ > >Nothing special, just some photos of winter Norway. > >Cheers, >Michel > >do not archive > > > > > > > > > -- John King Warrenton, VA ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:40 PM PST US From: "Brett Walmsley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912UL coming out of storage --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" Eric, Dipstick is SB-912-040 dated 8/2003 Can't find the floats but Lockwood said I needed 'em. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912UL coming out of storage > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" > > Brett, > I am familiar with the Service Letters on Stator and Rocker Arms but have > not heard about Carb Floats or Dipstick. What are those about? > Eric > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brett Walmsley" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:15 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912UL coming out of storage > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" >> >> Clem, >> I am in the same situation. My engine is 10 years old and had never left >> the >> box until two weeks ago. I called Lockwood and asked Kerry the same >> questions. Regarding the internal stuff he said look in the spark plug >> holes. see how it looks. If you remove the gear reduction you can see >> into >> the crank case. I did this because I was putting in the vacuum pump drive >> gear. One thing I did was put oil in the crankcase (1/2 to 3/4 quart) and >> roll the engine around. I mean physically roll it over. My main concern >> was >> the lifter faces. Then I took out the spark plugs and sprayed LPS 3 in >> the >> cylinders and hooked up a battery and cranked it. I got the oil in by >> hooking clear plastic tube to the oil inlet and pouring oil into the tube >> until I had enough in the engine by hand cranking. Then I hooked the tube >> to >> the return. People will tell you it won't pump with the spark plugs out, >> but >> it will if the pump is primed. >> After doing all of this I feel reasonably confident it will be just fine. >> There are however some Service Bulletins and Letters you may need to look >> into. >> 1. Stator (not bad $100+) (special puller) >> 2. Rocker arms (expensive, $800+) (special tools) >> 3. Carb floats >> 4. Dipstick >> There may be more. I have the special tools if you need to borrow them >> Brett >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "clemwehner" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:54 PM >> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912UL coming out of storage >> >> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner" >>> >>> >>> >>> I've had a 912UL sitting in my garage for 9 years in basically the >>> condition it came to me from the factory. My garage is air conditioned >>> as part of the house and the humidity here in Oklahoma is usually less >>> than 45 % dropping to 20-30 % during the winter months. >>> >>> I have begun work to finish the last 20% of my Kitfox IV construction >>> and need to know what I should do to the engine. >>> >>> Does it need to go to a Rotax service center for teardown, or is it >>> likely to be OK to use as is? >>> >>> Also, do I need to replace all the hoses that were put on it back then >>> (fuel, water, oil)? >>> >>> Anyone with experience like this? >>> >>> Thanks for the advice, >>> >>> Clem >>> Lawton, Oklahoma >>> KF IV-1050, 912UL >>> On this list daily since 1993 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:07 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Clem, For Summer shade, I use one of the smaller spring loaded hoop-like alumanized auto dashboard protectors. It fits very well overhead between the tubing and the skylight. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clem Nichols" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:28 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" > > With the crazing on my present windscreen, I realize it's just a matter of > time before I'll be forced to replace it. If I remember previous posts, > the > acrylic is more resistant to scratches, etc., than the polycarbonate, and > obviously the acrylic can be ordered preformed whereas the polycarbonate > (lexan?) comes in a flat sheet and requires a good deal of work to make it > fit. Moreover, the polycarbonate is not tinted (can it be ordered that > way?), whereas apparently the acrylic can be. In the summertime when I do > most of my flying I sometimes find myself wishing I had a little shade > over > my head. If I remember correctly the polycarbonate can be damaged by > glue-on sun screens, and I've had no luck with the screens that are held > on > by static electricity. Thanks in advance. > > Clem Nichols > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave and Diane" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:29 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane >> >> >> Graem, >> >> I don't know that I can contribute much to the windscreen vs Vne issue. >> Vne is >> a design parameter which is defined by whatever becomes a problem first >> when >> adding speed. I don't know enough about the design limits of our >> airplanes >> to >> even guess if a thicker windshield would get you out there further or >> not. >> I >> don't think my engine will push me to Vne anyway on 100hp. >> >> The wind screen I paid for twice (once to Skystar & once to John Mc Bean >> who >> got the job done for me) is the 3/16" thick version. I would always >> gravitate towards the thickest one available simply because thicker >> provides >> more resistance to object penetration - whatever that object may be which >> chooses to get in front of my windshield - rocks on takeoff, golf balls, >> June >> bugs (which make a pretty good snap on the window at 100MPH) or English >> weaver finch. I realize that with the operational speeds of a Kitfox - >> birds >> have at least half a chance of getting out of our way - but if they don't >> it's not good. I have seen a Cessna 172 which ruined a Canada goose's day >> on >> the Cessna's short final and a Bellanca which took a mallard through the >> windscreen at cruise speed and the mallard parts didn't stop till the >> pink >> mist coagulated in the end of the tail cone - you just can't get a thick >> enough windscreen to keep those things out so the object penetration >> thing >> is >> sort of relative rather than absolute. Obviously, resistance to object >> penetration is a function of materials too (polycarbonate holds up much >> better than acrylic - everything else being the same) - but that is my >> main >> reason to avoid a lighter windscreen. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Dave S >> St Paul, MN >> >> Do Not Archive >> >> On Sunday 12 March 2006 4:29 pm, Graeme Toft wrote: >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" >>> >>> Hi guys, Iv'e noticed this thread a couple of times now on wind screens >>> and >>> their thickness but didnt realise that this issue is related to VNE. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:24 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@Chartermi.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> John, Cool story!! have experienced similar flying here in the UP of Michigan a few years ago when the weather went cold with very little snow, we would land the lakes and rivers on wheels, truly a unique experience. Lloyd ----- Original Message ----- From: "John King" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:57 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King > > Michel, > > They are very beautiful scenes of winter in Norway. Two weeks ago a > friend of mine in his Champ and I in my Kitfox flew from Virginia to the > state of Maine. The trip was just over 600 nautical miles, cold > turbulent, with headwinds most of the way . We were invited there by > another pilot who just happens to be the owner of a large lodge on the > largest lake (Mooselhead Lake) in northern Maine. The lakes up there > are of course frozen two feet thick. Neither of our aircraft had skies > only wheels and I had wheel pants. Although there was an airport 30 > miles away on the southern end of the lake, we were told to land on the > lake ice in front of the lodge. > > I never knew you could land with wheels on ice successfully, but we had > no problem. Of course we could not use brakes and had to shut the > engine down after touchdown, otherwise it would not stop with the engine > at idle. We spent a week flying the lakes of northern Maine and landing > on the ice to visit friends and stopping to eat lunch at restaurants on > the lakes. They ice fish the lakes, so we had to always do a low flyby > and check for fish holes and warn the snowmobilier's we were about to > land. > > The snow on the ice was light fluffy snow from zero to two inches. If > it was heavy snow we would have had to have skies. The temperature at > night would go below zero degrees F. On our flight home the OAT was > -11F at 4000 ft. My 912S had no problems with the cold temperatures. > I will send you some pictures to your e-mail address of the Kitfox and > Champ on the ice with wheels. > > -- > John King > Warrenton, VA > > > Michel Verheughe wrote: > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe >> >>Hello listers, >>I went flying today and here are some photos. >> >>http://home.online.no/~michel/winter/ >> >>Nothing special, just some photos of winter Norway. >> >>Cheers, >>Michel >> >>do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > John King > Warrenton, VA > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:24 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing Tips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Dave, I don't think there will be a compatibilty issue as long as the new resin is epoxy. From the smell of the various parts in the Lancair project as they are cut and worked, they use both We just did the wing tips and they are polyester over gell coat.. And the resin used in all cases is epoxy. Epoxy has at least one major advantage in that it doesn't need two types - the bonding type and the finish type with the surfacing wax. The cure of Polyester resin is oxygen inhibited and you need an air barrier in the finish resin - the wax. You will get a very hard sandable surface with epoxy laminating resins. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave and Diane" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:37 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Tips > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane > > Good evening folks, > > I have a question on the wingtips supplied by Skystar in 2004. Does anyone > know what kind of resin they used in the fiberglass wingtips - polyester > or > epoxy? I am guessing polyester, but am curious to know for sure because I > will be doing some modification and want to keep the chemical > compatibility > issues organized. > > Thanks, > > Dave S > St Paul; MN > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:26 PM PST US From: jareds Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Consumption --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Searched the archives for a ballpark estimate of 582 oil consumption and found only a couple posts. My Carb and oil feed seem to be synced according to manual but over the year noticed a bit darker plugs than would like to see and motor smoking a bit. Only 30 hours on the rebuild. Exactly an hour of flight resulted in just a hair over one pint (16 oz) According to my estimates that would be about 40:1. Earlier posts said anywhere from 50:1 to 70:1 Any new suggestions? Jared ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:31 PM PST US From: "Clint Bazzill" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" The standard long wing model IV came with the .093. The speedster was .250, a friend had a speedster and had trouble with bending it. I used it and had no problem. Does increase the Vne to 140 as the .093 would flex in at higher speeds. Clint with .250 now. From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Hi Greame, I think a little clarification here is in order. With the Model IV the kits came with two thicknesses of the Lexan (Polycarbonate) wind sheild (screen for you, i guess). This was a flat sheet that was cut to shape and bent over the front area and actoss the wing root area and then back to cover the skylight. The two thicknesses were .060 and .093 inches. The .060 was used on the standard long wing IV -VNE 125 and the short wing speedster - VNE 135. Discussion in the past has suggested that the windshield thickness, was at least in part, a VNE design issue - a tendency for the thinner material diforming at high speeds. I have the .060, and have replaced it once about 200 hours ago. The first windshield was in use over 500 hours and the reason for the replacement was the large scratch that appeared in the building process - I just got tired of looking at it. I have flown at near VNE - my airspeed indicatoronly goes to 120 and I try to limit my speed to that - and I doubt anyone could convince me of the need for the .093. I do see some wind effects on the Lexan at high speeds and some prop pulse effects, but it doesn't bother me. I think the thicker windshields mentioned in the inch fraction range are the ones from LP Aeroplastics and they are not Lexan, but Acrylic. Acrylic does have some advantages relating to ease of polishing out minor scratches, but the stuff is very brittle and extremely unforgiving and must be handled very carefully. For strength it has to be a quantum leap thicker or what will merely deform the lexan for an immediate bounce back will break the acrylic. I run (fly) with a group of "light" airplanes - mine is the heaviest and I sometimes wonder why the bigger and heavier seems to often get the nod even where there is no demonstrated benefit. I recall of one Lexan windshield splitting from top to bottom for some reason. It was cleverly field repaired and the flight went on. That one incident was not reason enough for me to go thicker or heavier and definitely not more expensive. Keep in mind that this is for a fairly quick Model IV and I have no opinions on the subject regarding the heavier airplanes. regards, Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Toft" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Wind screen > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" > > Hi guys, Iv'e noticed this thread a couple of times now on wind screens > and their thickness but didnt realise that this issue is related to VNE. I > will be replacing mine as a last task before getting airborne again. Why > is the thickness an issue with VNE. I assume it is because of possible > distortion and the potential for failure. Is this correct and what > thickness should I order if I want to increase VNE. The current windscreen > is 3/16th and I believe it is from the factory. > > Cheers > > Graeme > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:08 PM PST US From: "Graeme Toft" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" Thanks for the replies guys. I remember the trouble I had replacing my Model 1 windscreen and even though it was acrylic (not even sure you can get lexan down here) it was one hell of a job bending it to fit the near right angle turn from screen to overhead clear view and back to the beginning of the turtle deck. Also as many others have found, I ended up with lots of crazing around the rivet holes because I didn't make them over size. Experience is a great teacher. Has anyone tried some judicial use of a heat gun to make the bends?. Could be an expensive mistake but I'm wondering if it would make the material pliable enough to bend without experiencing the cracking so many have, to their frustration experienced. Anyway I'll stick with the 3/16 as advised. Cheers Graeme ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave and Diane" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane > > Graem, > > I don't know that I can contribute much to the windscreen vs Vne issue. > Vne is > a design parameter which is defined by whatever becomes a problem first > when > adding speed. I don't know enough about the design limits of our airplanes > to > even guess if a thicker windshield would get you out there further or not. > I > don't think my engine will push me to Vne anyway on 100hp. > > The wind screen I paid for twice (once to Skystar & once to John Mc Bean > who > got the job done for me) is the 3/16" thick version. I would always > gravitate towards the thickest one available simply because thicker > provides > more resistance to object penetration - whatever that object may be which > chooses to get in front of my windshield - rocks on takeoff, golf balls, > June > bugs (which make a pretty good snap on the window at 100MPH) or English > weaver finch. I realize that with the operational speeds of a Kitfox - > birds > have at least half a chance of getting out of our way - but if they don't > it's not good. I have seen a Cessna 172 which ruined a Canada goose's day > on > the Cessna's short final and a Bellanca which took a mallard through the > windscreen at cruise speed and the mallard parts didn't stop till the pink > mist coagulated in the end of the tail cone - you just can't get a thick > enough windscreen to keep those things out so the object penetration thing > is > sort of relative rather than absolute. Obviously, resistance to object > penetration is a function of materials too (polycarbonate holds up much > better than acrylic - everything else being the same) - but that is my > main > reason to avoid a lighter windscreen. > > Sincerely, > > Dave S > St Paul, MN > > Do Not Archive > > On Sunday 12 March 2006 4:29 pm, Graeme Toft wrote: >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" >> >> Hi guys, Iv'e noticed this thread a couple of times now on wind screens >> and >> their thickness but didnt realise that this issue is related to VNE. > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:28 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Thankyou kindly Lowell, yep I'll let you all know, you'll probibly hear me yell when I jump for joy. John From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Congratulations to Lynn and John. I'm sure the feelings are great about now and will proably get a bit better with the report of the first flight. Looking forward to that. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Anderson" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > > > > > Congrats Lynn, that's two of us as I have JUST received mine!! Great > feeling > after 7 years a fun, toil and every emotion one could name. First flight > in > a few days, just when I get my first day off and a nice day all in one. > John > A. Series 5 TD > > > > > > From: Lynn Matteson > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Got my Airworthiness Certificate! > Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:39:09 -0500 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > They tell me that I now have an airplane! I just got my AC, and now > I'm a real airplane owner, not a project owner. It'll still be a > project, but I'm that much closer to having something to fly...as soon > as I get done with flight instruction, that is...and get the 40 hrs > flown off, etc, etc.... > It's only been 18 and a half months, but it seems like an eternity > since I drove to Texas and picked up this project, and now it's ready > for test flying. One of these days I'll clean up the shop, but for now > it's time to celebrate. > > Lynn > Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 > > > > > > Need a new job? Check out XtraMSN Careers http://xtramsn.co.nz/careers > > > > > > > > > > > > > Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids