---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/13/06: 42 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:05 AM - SV: Wing Tips (Michel Verheughe) 2. 02:08 AM - Re: 582 Oil Consumption (wayne turner) 3. 04:11 AM - Re: Middle Georgia? (Bradley M Webb) 4. 04:48 AM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate (Lynn Matteson) 5. 06:01 AM - Re: Wing Tips (Richard Rabbers) 6. 06:49 AM - static port location on Series 6? (scooby harrington) 7. 06:52 AM - SV: Re: Wing Tips (Michel Verheughe) 8. 07:11 AM - SV: [Off-topic] Today's flight (Michel Verheughe) 9. 07:14 AM - Re: Wind screen (Lowell Fitt) 10. 07:36 AM - Re: static port location on Series 6? (Alan & Linda Daniels) 11. 07:41 AM - Re: Wing Tips (Richard Rabbers) 12. 08:05 AM - Re: Wind screen (Richard Rabbers) 13. 08:39 AM - Re: static port location on Series 6? (AMuller589@aol.com) 14. 08:41 AM - Re: Wind screen (Lynn Matteson) 15. 08:57 AM - Re: static port location on Series 6? (Bradley M Webb) 16. 09:38 AM - Re: static port location on Series 6? (jdmcbean) 17. 09:40 AM - Re: static port location on Series 6? (Torgeir Mortensen) 18. 10:15 AM - Re: static port location on Series 6? (Alan & Linda Daniels) 19. 10:17 AM - Re: Wind screen (Clint Bazzill) 20. 12:28 PM - Re: static port location on Series 6? (Bradley M Webb) 21. 12:50 PM - Re: DAR is wrong (Lynn Matteson) 22. 01:03 PM - Re: [Off-topic] Today's flight (Mike Chaney) 23. 01:11 PM - Re: [Off-topic] Today's flight (Torgeir Mortensen) 24. 01:44 PM - Re: Middle Georgia? (W Duke) 25. 01:44 PM - Re: static port location on Series 6? (skyflyte@comcast.net) 26. 01:45 PM - Re: DAR is wrong (Alan & Linda Daniels) 27. 02:07 PM - 582 Oil Consumption Update (jareds) 28. 02:22 PM - Re: Middle Georgia? (Michael Logan) 29. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Wing Tips (Michel Verheughe) 30. 02:37 PM - Re: DAR is wrong (Lowell Fitt) 31. 02:50 PM - Windshield thickness (Lowell Fitt) 32. 02:59 PM - static port location on Series 6? Off topic (John Anderson) 33. 04:50 PM - Re: Toe in Toe Out (Torgeir Mortensen) 34. 05:24 PM - Re: Wing Tips (DPREMGOOD@aol.com) 35. 06:00 PM - Re: static port location on Series 6? Off topic (Bradley M Webb) 36. 06:19 PM - Re: Middle Georgia? (Bradley M Webb) 37. 06:44 PM - Re: Toe in Toe Out (Lowell Fitt) 38. 07:35 PM - Re: static port location on Series 6? (Bill Hammond) 39. 08:34 PM - Re: static port location on Series 6? Off topic (AMuller589@aol.com) 40. 08:35 PM - Re: Wing Tips (Richard Rabbers) 41. 09:28 PM - Re: [Off-topic] Today's flight (James Shumaker) 42. 10:42 PM - Re: Toe in Toe Out (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:19 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Wing Tips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Dave and Diane [ddsyverson@comcast.net] >Does anyone know what kind of resin they used in the fiberglass wingtips - polyester > or epoxy? Hello Dave, I haven't tested mine but, a "burning" tool, like a Dreemel, will tell you, at once, from the odour, if it's polyester or epoxy, the former smelling much nicer! :-) I know that my original cowling is polyester, so I guess the wing tips are also that. But, in any case, there is no problem mixing them. My cowling is now half polyester and half epoxy (after I modified it to install a Jabiru) and It has been flying more than 100 hours. Polyester, being manufactured in large quantities for e.g. yachts, is cheaper. But epoxy is easier to use as it doesn't release nocive gas as it cures. One thing to remember with both resins, though: They are the glue for the fiberglass. They don't give any structural strenght. Use as little as possible. As long as the fiberglass is wet with resin, it's enough. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:12 AM PST US From: wayne turner Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Consumption --> Kitfox-List message posted by: wayne turner that sounds more like 25-1,may be you should plug pump remove pump gear and try premix? --- jareds wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds > > > Searched the archives for a ballpark estimate of 582 > oil consumption and > found only a couple posts. > My Carb and oil feed seem to be synced according to > manual but over the > year noticed a bit darker plugs than would like to > see and motor smoking > a bit. > Only 30 hours on the rebuild. > > Exactly an hour of flight resulted in just a hair > over one pint (16 oz) > According to my estimates that would be about 40:1. > > Earlier posts said anywhere from 50:1 to 70:1 > Any new suggestions? > > Jared > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:18 AM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" That's exactly where I am. I'm based out at Perry, KPXE. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Logan Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:19 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Logan" Bradley, Where in Middle Georgia are you located? I grew up in Warner Robins and get back there a couple of times a year. It can get hot and steamy for long periods of time in the summer. Mike Logan Series 5 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradley M Webb Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Well, you can feel even more jealous...a balmy 80 degrees and calm here in Middle Georgia. As soon as I finish this note, I'm off to the airport to log some time. All but you, Michel. I wish our landscape was as gorgeous as that. And take heart, Lowell. I miss the occasional snowball fight with the kids. Bradley ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Airworthiness Certificate From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Thanks, Rex... It's gonna be a banner day in Grass Lake, MI. when this project takes to the air. A lot of people have stopped by my place to observe the progress of the plane. I live right on a well-traveled rural road, and pretty close to the road at that, and it's hard to hide an orange-colored airplane from the passersby. So I've had a lot of well-wishers, and craned necks as the plane has spent some of its time outside the workshop, which has its doors facing the road. But of course, I won't be sending out invitations to all of them to "come watch". Maybe passing out cigars and hanging a banner on the shop will suffice. : ) Lynn Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 On Monday, March 13, 2006, at 02:45 PM, Rex Shaw wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Shaw" > > They tell me that I now have an airplane! I just got my AC, and now > I'm a real airplane owner, not a project owner. It'll still be a > project, but I'm that much closer to having something to fly...as soon > as I get done with flight instruction, that is...and get the 40 hrs > flown off, etc, etc.... > It's only been 18 and a half months, but it seems like an eternity > since I drove to Texas and picked up this project, and now it's ready > for test flying. One of these days I'll clean up the shop, but for now > it's time to celebrate. > > Lynn > Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 > > Congratulations Lynn, > there will be no stopping you now. > Have lot's of fun, > > Rex. > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:39 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wing Tips From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" SV Michel's quote> ....polyester or epoxy ...there is no problem mixing them. I had the understanding that epoxy can be applied over polyester but not the opposite. ('can' might not be the right word to use here..) Keep in mind - I haven't dome much fibre glassing for a long time Regards, -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21448#21448 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:30 AM PST US From: "scooby harrington" Subject: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series 6. I have combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone know where I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being much better than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct location is. Thanks! Scooby On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:19 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Re: Wing Tips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Richard Rabbers [rira1950@yahoo.com] > I had the understanding that epoxy can be applied over polyester but not the > opposite. ('can' might not be the right word to use here..) It is true, Richard, that many polyester and fiberglass yacht's hull are covered with epoxy, under the waterline, to prevent ozmose and small blisters. But, apart from thermo-plastic, I believe epoxy will bound on anything. After all, epoxy glue such as Araldit, is the most commonly used glue. In the case of my cowling, I have cut it about half way, then extendend both lower and upper part, forward, by using epoxy and fiberglass. The end of the old polyester part was, of course, tapered, and the new layers were applied with an overlapping, as one would do for any fiberglass repairs. Then, I had to cut a part of the underside of the cowling, to accomodate for a scoop for my new air-cooled engine. Since it came exactly at the overlapping region, I had in my hand a piece of material from both resins. And I tried to bend it for destruction, to see if it would delaminate along the bonding seam. It did not. With enough pressure, the piece of material broke in two, as if it was of the same nature all the way through. Of course, before bounding the new and old material, surfaces have to be clean and sanded down. Especially a cowling, where oil and sooth has deposited for years. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:50 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: John King [kingjohne@adelphia.net] > I never knew you could land with wheels on ice successfully, Thanks for the photos, John. You have there the ideal conditions, when frost comes before snow. This winter, in south east Norway, the snow came first, then rain, then snow then frost and then a lot of snow! It makes the lake surfaces unsecure because you may have ice, then water on the top, then snow, then an icy crust. If the latter doesn't bear the weight of your plane, you're sitting in until a vehicule or an helicopter can pull you out. I have my skis, primarely as a safety reason: I can land virtually anywhere. Then, if I know of a place where other pilots are landing (we often have on-ice fly-ins) I'll come. But only knowing there will be someone on the ground, checking the nature of the ice/snow. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:02 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Hey, Clint. .250 is 1/4". Are you sure your figures are correct. I measured mine before posting. And I just remembered I still have the original in my shed. Just measured that and it is .060. The Lancair has .250 (Plexiglass) and it claims to be a 300 mph airplane. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Bazzill" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:35 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" > > > The standard long wing model IV came with the .093. The speedster was > .250, > a friend had a speedster and had trouble with bending it. I used it and > had > no problem. Does increase the Vne to 140 as the .093 would flex in at > higher speeds. Clint with .250 now. > > > From: "Lowell Fitt" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen > Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:22:51 -0800 > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Hi Greame, > > I think a little clarification here is in order. > > With the Model IV the kits came with two thicknesses of the Lexan > (Polycarbonate) wind sheild (screen for you, i guess). This was a flat > sheet that was cut to shape and bent over the front area and actoss the > wing > root area and then back to cover the skylight. > > The two thicknesses were .060 and .093 inches. The .060 was used on the > standard long wing IV -VNE 125 and the short wing speedster - VNE 135. > Discussion in the past has suggested that the windshield thickness, was at > least in part, a VNE design issue - a tendency for the thinner material > diforming at high speeds. I have the .060, and have replaced it once > about > 200 hours ago. The first windshield was in use over 500 hours and the > reason for the replacement was the large scratch that appeared in the > building process - I just got tired of looking at it. I have flown at > near > VNE - my airspeed indicatoronly goes to 120 and I try to limit my speed to > that - and I doubt anyone could convince me of the need for the .093. I > do > see some wind effects on the Lexan at high speeds and some prop pulse > effects, but it doesn't bother me. > > I think the thicker windshields mentioned in the inch fraction range are > the > ones from LP Aeroplastics and they are not Lexan, but Acrylic. Acrylic > does > have some advantages relating to ease of polishing out minor scratches, > but > the stuff is very brittle and extremely unforgiving and must be handled > very > carefully. For strength it has to be a quantum leap thicker or what will > merely deform the lexan for an immediate bounce back will break the > acrylic. > > I run (fly) with a group of "light" airplanes - mine is the heaviest and I > sometimes wonder why the bigger and heavier seems to often get the nod > even > where there is no demonstrated benefit. I recall of one Lexan windshield > splitting from top to bottom for some reason. It was cleverly field > repaired and the flight went on. That one incident was not reason enough > for me to go thicker or heavier and definitely not more expensive. > > Keep in mind that this is for a fairly quick Model IV and I have no > opinions > on the subject regarding the heavier airplanes. > > regards, > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Graeme Toft" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:29 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Wind screen > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" > > > > Hi guys, Iv'e noticed this thread a couple of times now on wind screens > > and their thickness but didnt realise that this issue is related to VNE. > I > > will be replacing mine as a last task before getting airborne again. Why > > is the thickness an issue with VNE. I assume it is because of possible > > distortion and the potential for failure. Is this correct and what > > thickness should I order if I want to increase VNE. The current > windscreen > > is 3/16th and I believe it is from the factory. > > > > Cheers > > > > Graeme > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:02 AM PST US From: Alan & Linda Daniels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels I get my static from behind the panel. It works better than most static ports I have seen. I think John McBean has a kit. Having a correct static port is as important as where it is put. It is easy to get an error of over 10 mph at approach speeds with an incorrect static system, which can really cause problems on the first flights. I suggest that if you have a static system you disconnect it for the first few test flights as the error will only be 1 or 2 mph at most and will not mess up your first approaches and landings before you have a feel for the plane. scooby harrington wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" > >I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series >6. I have >combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone know >where >I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? > >I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being much >better >than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct >location is. > >Thanks! > >Scooby > >On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to >get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:15 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wing Tips From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" I believe that Michel and I have the same opinion. Epoxy bonds well to Polyester. I felt bad sending a note without any footnote so checked a bit and found a couple references to support my understanding of the two resins. (SV) Michel quote >> I believe epoxy will bond on anything. http://www.redrockstore.com/resin.htm .. Epoxy resin will bond dissimilar or already-cured materials which makes repair work that is very reliable and strong. Epoxy actually bonds to all sorts of fibers very well and also offers excellent results in repair-ability when it is used to bond two different materials together .. Polyester resin is the cheapest resin available in the marine industry and offers the poorest adhesion, has the highest water absorption, highest shrinkage, and high VOC's. Polyester resin is only compatible with fiberglass fibers and is best suited to building things that are not weight sensitive. It is also not tough and fractures easily. Polyesters tend to end up with micro-cracks and are tough to re-bond and suffer from osmotic blistering when untreated by an epoxy resin barrier to water Vinylester resins ( also included in this page come somewhere between the two.) Summary - Epoxy resin has far more to offer in its ability to flex, prevent delamination, and ease of use for repair work. Using epoxy resin leads to better quality products http://www.masepoxies.com/aboutresins.htm Michel - I am also a sailor - 1936 Spanish built wooden cutter rig. No glass involved but the prevous owner left a small tube of Araldit on board. (I've not seen in it in US or Caribbean....though I haven't been looking either) Richard -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21483#21483 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:24 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wind screen From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" Hello List. Windshield thickness: My company makes a film that is used by many to product the surface of materials when thermal forming - customers names are probably not familar to most but one uses our film to shape a laminated sheet for F-18 windshield. I got a hold of a piece (in discussing concerns with our film) The laminate is made up of several layers - Clear on both outer sheets - green tinted and an amorphous goo (probably for dampening as one lamination - The total thickness is just under 1 inch! .... I think I may want more !!!!! I understand the SR-71 has about 3 inch thickness Acrylic (or PC) forming: Back in my college days I used a heat gun to warm then shape some material (probably acrylic) to make a dust cover for my stereo (ie rotating vinyl disk / needle) I've not done any shaping since but had pretty good luck... with care, heating uniformly just in from the edge (with a shield) to heat where needed - the piece gradually 'fell' over under it's weight and with removal of heat and gentle support I achieved my goal. I'd do ALOT of practice before I pursued a LARGE piece of material. I purchased a FORMED windshield from Skystar for my model 1 a while back but have not installed it yet. (they had only 2-3 size but said it should fit my M-1 with a bit of tweaking) My bill wa$ $imilar to yours (Rich in Kennebunk) Good luck with your crack - please wish me luck. It sounds like that' s what it might take. I read quite a bit from archives on this topic and will wait for summer warmth also. Regards, -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21486#21486 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:45 AM PST US From: AMuller589@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com I have two friends with Kitfoxes, one has a V the other has a II, both put theirs on the sides of the fuselage just about where the pilot and pax fingers would be when theuy let them hang out of the open doors. The way you tell they are correctly placed is by observing no change in from runway altitude as you do your takeoff roll and just as you lift off. There should be no change. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Just for kicks, I measured scraps cut from my LP Aeroplastics WS/Skylight combo, and the thickness was .115-.135", for what that's worth. Lynn Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 On Monday, March 13, 2006, at 10:12 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Hey, Clint. .250 is 1/4". Are you sure your figures are correct. I > measured mine before posting. And I just remembered I still have the > original in my shed. Just measured that and it is .060. The Lancair > has > .250 (Plexiglass) and it claims to be a 300 mph airplane. > > Lowell ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:49 AM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Not that I disagree, but if it's within 1-2mph, you won't get much better than that no matter where you put it. In reference to your question, I thought I read here that Skystar put theirs somewhere aft, near the leading edge of the stab, and about 3" up from bottom of the fuse. Correct? The good thing is, when you do your stall/minimum speed testing, you'll know where your 'fox's stall is at. Multiply that by 1.3, and that's your Vref, or speed over the threshold. It's not your approach speed, or touchdown speed, although it can be both. If you've got a really messed up installation, let's say your plane will stall at 80mph indicated. Multiply by 1.3, and you should cross the runway threshold at 104 indicated. It really doesn't matter what the actual speed is. It might count for bragging rights. Some people are very meticulous, and an accurate a/s indicator is important. But given the tools most homebuilders have to work with, anything within 5mph either way would be totally acceptable to most folks. Just adjust Vref accordingly. I think 1-2 mph error correction is way out of reach without sophisticated, expensive, and calibrated equipment. Maybe your FBO has a tester? But be forewarned: most FBO's are run by cheap bastards who don't calibrate their equipment, or even take care of them, regardless of what the FAA does or says. My 2, for example, is static ported in the cabin, and stalls around 40 indicated. My approach is 55mph, Vref is 50mph, and touchdown is whatever touchdown happens to be. I don't know, nor do I care what speed the indicator says I'm actually flying at. I have a GPS for ground-speed, and top-speed isn't of major concern to me. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan & Linda Daniels Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels I get my static from behind the panel. It works better than most static ports I have seen. I think John McBean has a kit. Having a correct static port is as important as where it is put. It is easy to get an error of over 10 mph at approach speeds with an incorrect static system, which can really cause problems on the first flights. I suggest that if you have a static system you disconnect it for the first few test flights as the error will only be 1 or 2 mph at most and will not mess up your first approaches and landings before you have a feel for the plane. scooby harrington wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" > >I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series >6. I have >combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone know >where >I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? > >I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being much >better >than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct >location is. > >Thanks! > >Scooby > >On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to >get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:06 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Someone else was asking me about Static port location... Hopefully they are on the list... Anyway, The following is the tested location on the 1-4 & 5-7 Model 1 - 4: 27 inches forward of the leading edge of the horizontal stab and 5 inches from the lower longeron Model 5 - 7: 24 inches forward of the leading edge of the horizontal stab and 2.5 inches from the lower longeron Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of scooby harrington Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series 6. I have combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone know where I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being much better than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct location is. Thanks! Scooby On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Scooby, Go to our "own" Skystar site found here: (Folks, take notice of this address.) http://www.sportflight.com/skystar/ Click technical support, next - click Instruction/Documents, in the right upper corner you'll find the document: Static Port Install. This is the one you are looking for as a pdf file. Good Luck. Torgeir. do not archive On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:48:02 +0000, scooby harrington wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" > > > I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my > series > 6. I have > combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone > know > where > I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? > > I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being > much > better > than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct > location is. > > Thanks! > > Scooby > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:24 AM PST US From: Alan & Linda Daniels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels I agree, that is why I leave my static behind the panel. You can get a little more error at cruse speeds, but not a lot. I have seen the static port cause enough of a speed error that it really messed up the first few flights as the pilot was using ball park numbers for the approach and landing before he could do stall testing. You also need to leak check your pitot system. A small leak, a lot of times in the wing fold area, will cause a big error also. The best way to check it is to tape a child's balloon to an inch or so of tygon tubing, blow up the balloon and slide the tube on the pitot tube and slowly release the pressure. It will give you somewhere around 100 mph indicated but that is not important, what is important is that the balloon stay inflated. It should stay up for a few minutes at least. When you remove the balloon let the pressure off slowly. If it goes down you have a leak. A hole so small you can not see it can change your airspeed 15 mph or more. You may be able to use 1.3 vso on the early models, but except for short field work 1.3 does not give you enough energy to flair power off in a 5 or 6. (The 7 does a little better slow).. This is a light weight plane that decelerates fast and you can really drop it in. We have been talking first flights, so I would keep it a little faster until you find out just what speeds work for you and your plane. Bradley M Webb wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" > >Not that I disagree, but if it's within 1-2mph, you won't get much better > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:29 AM PST US From: "Clint Bazzill" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" Sorry about that. 1/8 inch is what I ment to say. .125 inches the same as they put in the Speedster. Clilnt From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wind screen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Just for kicks, I measured scraps cut from my LP Aeroplastics WS/Skylight combo, and the thickness was .115-.135", for what that's worth. Lynn Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 On Monday, March 13, 2006, at 10:12 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Hey, Clint. .250 is 1/4". Are you sure your figures are correct. I > measured mine before posting. And I just remembered I still have the > original in my shed. Just measured that and it is .060. The Lancair > has > .250 (Plexiglass) and it claims to be a 300 mph airplane. > > Lowell ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:32 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" An interesting note on leaks. When I got the plane, there were at least 5 connections (rubber to tygon, tygon to rubber, etc.) and consequently, it leaked. It was easiest to just gut it, so I scored some plastic water line and neat little connectors at the Home Depot Aviation Store, and put a new line in. Well, one day, I'm working on the plane at the airport, and a guy stops by to chat and look. He poked his head in the cockpit, and say "Hmm, your airspeed indicator is broken. It's stuck at 35." Well, I finished my pre-flight, and in the process, removed the pitot cover. When I climbed in, the a/s was at zero. Curious, I put the cover back on, and it promptly rose to 35, and stayed there. Now when I go out to fly, I check the a/s and see what it's reading. One time it was 60mph. As the air heats up, it expands, and the airspeed rises. Now that's a tight system. I actually put a small hole in the pitot cover, as I am afraid that if the temperature drops, and creates suction in the tube, I suppose it could break the indicator. I did the same for the fuel tank tubes, as I don't want pressure on the tanks and lines when it's hot out. As for 1.3 Vso, I'm just going by a rule-of-thumb, for lack of any other info. It seems to work, but I'm getting to where I like a steeper, slower approach, so I don't float too far past my touchdown point. For the first flights, I just used a speed that felt "normal" in the controls. You can tell by how the ailerons and elevator "feel". Mine sure loses the elevator when really slow. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan & Linda Daniels Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels I agree, that is why I leave my static behind the panel. You can get a little more error at cruse speeds, but not a lot. I have seen the static port cause enough of a speed error that it really messed up the first few flights as the pilot was using ball park numbers for the approach and landing before he could do stall testing. You also need to leak check your pitot system. A small leak, a lot of times in the wing fold area, will cause a big error also. The best way to check it is to tape a child's balloon to an inch or so of tygon tubing, blow up the balloon and slide the tube on the pitot tube and slowly release the pressure. It will give you somewhere around 100 mph indicated but that is not important, what is important is that the balloon stay inflated. It should stay up for a few minutes at least. When you remove the balloon let the pressure off slowly. If it goes down you have a leak. A hole so small you can not see it can change your airspeed 15 mph or more. You may be able to use 1.3 vso on the early models, but except for short field work 1.3 does not give you enough energy to flair power off in a 5 or 6. (The 7 does a little better slow).. This is a light weight plane that decelerates fast and you can really drop it in. We have been talking first flights, so I would keep it a little faster until you find out just what speeds work for you and your plane. Bradley M Webb wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" > >Not that I disagree, but if it's within 1-2mph, you won't get much better > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: DAR is wrong From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I just talked with the local FAA, and it happened that my DAR's boss was in the office when I called, and he said he would have to correct the DAR. Yes, I CAN work on the plane just as you have all said, and I don't have to wait until the 40 hours is flown off to apply for it...in fact I'm going over there tomorrow to turn in the paperwork for my Repairman's Certificate. Man, it's tough enough to get one of these things certified, without having to wade through a bunch of wrong information. Lynn Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 On Sunday, March 12, 2006, at 08:54 AM, flier wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" > > Definately! Lynn you can do everything except sign the annual which > isn't > due for another year now that he's signed it off... > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan & > Linda > Daniels > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:59 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: DAR is wrong > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels > > > The DAR is wrong. You can do all the work except the annual inspection > which is not due for a year until you get your repairman's certificate. > I can't believe he would tell you that nonsense. Call EAA, they can > give > you chapter and verse. That is of course if it is experimental amateur > built. I am sure someone on the list will jump in with the FAR's. I > will > in the AM if no one else has. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:08 PM PST US From: Mike Chaney Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney I was wondering what that item is in the bottom of the third picture? It looks as if it is setting on top of your panel. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:47 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Michel, Thanks for the report and the opportunity to see your home from the air. I wish I could have flown today. Cameron Park got 4 inches of snow overnight a real rare experience - last time Winter of 1997 with an inch or so then. I'd love to have pics from the air. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:27 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Hello listers, > I went flying today and here are some photos. > > http://home.online.no/~michel/winter/ > > Nothing special, just some photos of winter Norway. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ############################################################################ #### This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at SWOCA. ############################################################################ #### ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen > Nothing special, just some photos of winter Norway. Sure it is Michel, the last picture is the Fox "Tango", -just been out flying -and ready for another flight. :) Cheers Torgeir. do not archive -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:48 PM PST US From: W Duke Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke Bradley, I was at KPXE Saturday a couple of weeks ago with our S6. I got a brief look at your Fox. If you are ever over near Dublin (KDBN), give me a call 478 689 4942. Our airplane is based at KDBN now but if I can get my hangar finished I will move it to 32 degrees 22.85 N 83 degrees 03.50 W You are welcome to land there any time. Almost exactly halfway between KDBN and KEZM. 2000 ft long appr east west runway next to a pond. Arch building near one end Also there will be some big time parachute activity in Dublin this weekend if you would like to come watch. I expect to be at the airport most of the day Saturday. Maxwell Duke do not archive Bradley M Webb wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" That's exactly where I am. I'm based out at Perry, KPXE. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Logan Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:19 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Logan" Bradley, Where in Middle Georgia are you located? I grew up in Warner Robins and get back there a couple of times a year. It can get hot and steamy for long periods of time in the summer. Mike Logan Series 5 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradley M Webb Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Well, you can feel even more jealous...a balmy 80 degrees and calm here in Middle Georgia. As soon as I finish this note, I'm off to the airport to log some time. All but you, Michel. I wish our landscape was as gorgeous as that. And take heart, Lowell. I miss the occasional snowball fight with the kids. Bradley --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:48 PM PST US From: skyflyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: skyflyte@comcast.net I have my static source behind the instrument panel, and it seems to work well until I open the doors! There is also some error when doing a strong slip to lose altitude. More importantly, the static errors will effect your altimeter, and our encoder if you are using Mode C. There may be a conflict between your indicated altitude, and that which is reported to ATC. I'm not sure how much "off-altitude" you are permitted until the ATC/FAA becomes interested. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "scooby harrington" > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" > > I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series > 6. I have > combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone know > where > I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? > > I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being much > better > than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct > location is. > > Thanks! > > Scooby > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have my static source behind the instrument panel, and it seems to work well until I open the doors! There is also some error when doing a strong slip to lose altitude. More importantly, the static errors will effect your altimeter, and our encoder if you are using Mode C. There may be a conflict between your indicated altitude, and that which is reported to ATC. I'm not sure how much "off-altitude" you are permitted until the ATC/FAA becomes interested. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "scooby harrington" scoobytrash@hotmail.com -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series 6. I have combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone know where I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being much better than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct location is. Thanks! Scooby On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=R etirement ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:24 PM PST US From: Alan & Linda Daniels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: DAR is wrong --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels The list wins again. YES. Be safe Alan Lynn Matteson wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > >I just talked with the local FAA, and it happened that my DAR's boss >was in the office when I called, and he said he would have to correct >the DAR. Yes, I CAN work on the plane just as you have all said, and I >don't have to wait until the 40 hours is flown off to apply for it...in >fact I'm going over there tomorrow to turn in the paperwork for my >Repairman's Certificate. >Man, it's tough enough to get one of these things certified, without >having to wade through a bunch of wrong information. > >Lynn > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:49 PM PST US From: jareds Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Consumption Update --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Decided to call the experts. First they reminded me that my 6000 rpm cruise on this test is charted out to be almost 7gph so my ratio of 50:1 that I am trying to attain is getting closer actually around 56:1 at that cruise. They said they have few problems with the oil feeder mechanism but as long as correct lines were used and it is calibrated with the tick marks correctly. They have new information that gas now days has so many additives that we should always buy high octane 90 plus especially if the gas may sit in a tank or container for more than a few weeks. Octane will drop considerably in only 2 weeks. This is bad juju for our 2 strokes. They reminded me that in this Cold SD weather my clip adjustments should be made to get a better burn on the plugs and that putting plugs in every 20 hours rather than my 30-40 is the safe way to go. Especially if running occasional Av gas. The last reminder they gave was that we should be using oil for AIR COOLED engines even though we are water cooled. Better viscocity. Had a good flight even though i couldnt adjust my new radiator door without cloths lines pins to keep temp up there in this cold. Hope weather holds to be able to get some more good tests in. Hope this info helps. jareds wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds > >Searched the archives for a ballpark estimate of 582 oil consumption and >found only a couple posts. >My Carb and oil feed seem to be synced according to manual but over the >year noticed a bit darker plugs than would like to see and motor smoking >a bit. >Only 30 hours on the rebuild. > >Exactly an hour of flight resulted in just a hair over one pint (16 oz) >According to my estimates that would be about 40:1. > >Earlier posts said anywhere from 50:1 to 70:1 >Any new suggestions? > >Jared > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:31 PM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Logan" That is where we leave the Grumman Traveler when we travel down there. One of these days I will fly the fox down and will let you know when I am coming. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradley M Webb Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:06 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" That's exactly where I am. I'm based out at Perry, KPXE. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Logan Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:19 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Logan" Bradley, Where in Middle Georgia are you located? I grew up in Warner Robins and get back there a couple of times a year. It can get hot and steamy for long periods of time in the summer. Mike Logan Series 5 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradley M Webb Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Well, you can feel even more jealous...a balmy 80 degrees and calm here in Middle Georgia. As soon as I finish this note, I'm off to the airport to log some time. All but you, Michel. I wish our landscape was as gorgeous as that. And take heart, Lowell. I miss the occasional snowball fight with the kids. Bradley ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:31 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Wing Tips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Mar 13, 2006, at 4:40 PM, Richard Rabbers wrote: > Michel - I am also a sailor - 1936 Spanish built wooden cutter rig. > 1936? That's funny, Richard! I owned a 25 feet Cornish gaff-rigged cutter (actually, a Falmouth quay punt) that was built in 1936, pitchpine on oak frames. Here is a photo of her, taken 31 years ago, when I sailed from Spain to Norway and got caught in a nasty squall line off the Portuguese coast. It tore apart my jib. The picture was taken in Villana do Castello. http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/Foxtrot.jpg Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:25 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: DAR is wrong --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Good for you Lynn. I thought DARs were thoroughly knowledgable types that were accepted because of special experience or training, like the old timer Tech Counselors that have hung around EAA chapters for several lifetimes. Sounds not. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: DAR is wrong > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > I just talked with the local FAA, and it happened that my DAR's boss > was in the office when I called, and he said he would have to correct > the DAR. Yes, I CAN work on the plane just as you have all said, and I > don't have to wait until the 40 hours is flown off to apply for it...in > fact I'm going over there tomorrow to turn in the paperwork for my > Repairman's Certificate. > Man, it's tough enough to get one of these things certified, without > having to wade through a bunch of wrong information. > > Lynn > Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200 > > > On Sunday, March 12, 2006, at 08:54 AM, flier wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" >> >> Definately! Lynn you can do everything except sign the annual which >> isn't >> due for another year now that he's signed it off... >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan & >> Linda >> Daniels >> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:59 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Kitfox-List: DAR is wrong >> >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels >> >> >> The DAR is wrong. You can do all the work except the annual inspection >> which is not due for a year until you get your repairman's certificate. >> I can't believe he would tell you that nonsense. Call EAA, they can >> give >> you chapter and verse. That is of course if it is experimental amateur >> built. I am sure someone on the list will jump in with the FAR's. I >> will >> in the AM if no one else has. > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:07 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Kitfox-List: Windshield thickness --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" I am tired of this thread also but just to say, if you have an early Kitfox model and want factual information please check SS Service Bulletin #34 dated May 1, 1994 Regards, Lowell ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:28 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? Off topic --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" On the big helicopters I fly there is a alt static system that vents behind the panel. A good trick is to switch to alt without letting the other pilot see when the auto pilot's engauged, then open a window and she takes a dive......J. From: skyflyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: skyflyte@comcast.net I have my static source behind the instrument panel, and it seems to work well until I open the doors! There is also some error when doing a strong slip to lose altitude. More importantly, the static errors will effect your altimeter, and our encoder if you are using Mode C. There may be a conflict between your indicated altitude, and that which is reported to ATC. I'm not sure how much "off-altitude" you are permitted until the ATC/FAA becomes interested. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "scooby harrington" >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" > >I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series >6. I have >combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone >know >where >I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? > >I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being >much >better >than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct >location is. > >Thanks! > >Scooby > >On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to >get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > I have my static source behind the instrument panel, and it seems to work well until I open the doors! There is also some error when doing a strong slip to lose altitude. More importantly, the static errors will effect your altimeter, and our encoder if you are using Mode C. There may be a conflict between your indicated altitude, and that which is reported to ATC. I'm not sure how much "off-altitude" you are permitted until the ATC/FAA becomes interested. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "scooby harrington" scoobytrash@hotmail.com -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series 6. I have combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone know where I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being much better than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct location is. Thanks! Scooby On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=R etirement Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/ ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Toe in Toe Out From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi there, A real good reference, Graham E. Launch. Here is some more "web" info about the problem (even mention our kind of AC, the Kitfox). http://www.bluemaxul.com/rans/messages/249.html Then the great "toe debate": A good one!! It's RC, but the "practical" theory is just as good as the real thing. http://rcmf.co.uk/articles/toe-debate.html ------------ Remember our cars, this is where all the "advanced" steering theory is developed. If we have too much toe in (no servo here), the steering wheel will become light, -also, during turn, the car tends to accelerate the turn by itself! Have you ever tried such a car? Now the other way, to much toe out. This time the steering wheel become very heavy and the car want to go back straight forward. --------------- The gear should be toe out for a tail dragger and toe in for a nose wheel AC. The amount of toe out for the tail dragger should be very small, like 0 to 0.5 degrees. The toe in for the mains in a nose wheel AC is not as critical but should be small in order to reduce the rolling resistance on takeoff. Some more: The toe angle must be measured with tail up (in level), and with proper loading. With to much toe out, the wheels tend to spread and stretching the rubber feather. What about take off at max. gross in an rough out field operation. Anyhow, did not SS said toe in ??? Cheers Torgeir. On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:11:19 -0800, Lowell Fitt wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > The following is a copy of a post sent 2 Jan 1997 to the old > kitfox@lists.Colorado.EDU, by Graham E. Laucht, a name many of the old > timers on the list will remember, and a wonder of knowledge. > > The post is in response to the following question: > >> Im looking at my wheel alignment (classic 4) and see about 6 inches toe >> in >> measured at the >elevator. > >> How much miss alignment is acceptable and what are the effects besides >> tire >> wear. I don't want >to start using a crow bar to spring the wheels of it >> isn't necessary. > > _____ > > As a general rule toe in on a taildragger (wheel rims closer together at > the > front) is strongly destabilising and therefore toe out (wheels rims > further > apart at the front) is less unstable. In simple terms the risks > associated > with ground loops etc. are greater with toe in. They still don't go away, > however. The position is different on a trike which in any case is > strongly > stable to start with due to the CG being ahead of the main gear. > > The actual angles are very much determined by the CG position, it's > position > with relationship to the main gear and to the masses disposed about the > CG > but again a general rule of thumb between 1 and 2 degrees of total toe > out > is desirable but no more. Some types are even set up neutral and some > even > assymetric to compensate for P effect. If you have heavier than design > engine installation the book figure may be incorrect. Likewise additional > tail weight, batteries up the back end etc. all conspire to alter the > dynamics and generally call for less easily breaking tailwheels. > > Taildraggers that are particularly skittish on the ground can often be > found > to have landing gear damage though of course there are other possible > explanations. > > One of the main reasons tailwheel locking was employed in large tailwheel > aircraft like the DC3 was to do with amount of mass ahead of the CG as > they > offered little corrective restraint from a yaw or skid or from assymetric > power application. Wheel 'em on , wheel 'em off being the motto. > > Loose tailwheels, broken or weak steering springs, incorrect castor > angle, > saggy springs all contribute to the problem. > > NB the effect of one soft tyre on a dragger is exactly the same as toe > in, > as I found out the other day, especially when it's on the windward side > of > the crosswind. A bystander actually believed I had cleared the active > runway > quickly on purpose, little did he know the driver was ten milliseconds > behind his demented supermarket trolley. > > - > > Graham E. Laucht > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:20 PM PST US From: DPREMGOOD@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing Tips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: DPREMGOOD@aol.com Dave, I installed Nav. light standoffs to my wingtips and used polyester resin to hold them in place. No problems as yet. Doug Remoundos ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:18 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? Off topic --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" That's an awesome trick! I don't know where it comes from, but I was taught that if you have a static source problem (maybe water iced up in the line?), you can break the glass on the face of the VSI, and it will port to the cabin. Doesn't work for either a pressurized cabin or the rental company insurance agent. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Anderson Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 5:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? Off topic --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" On the big helicopters I fly there is a alt static system that vents behind the panel. A good trick is to switch to alt without letting the other pilot see when the auto pilot's engauged, then open a window and she takes a dive......J. From: skyflyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: skyflyte@comcast.net I have my static source behind the instrument panel, and it seems to work well until I open the doors! There is also some error when doing a strong slip to lose altitude. More importantly, the static errors will effect your altimeter, and our encoder if you are using Mode C. There may be a conflict between your indicated altitude, and that which is reported to ATC. I'm not sure how much "off-altitude" you are permitted until the ATC/FAA becomes interested. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "scooby harrington" >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" > >I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series >6. I have >combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone >know >where >I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? > >I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being >much >better >than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct >location is. > >Thanks! > >Scooby > >On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to >get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > I have my static source behind the instrument panel, and it seems to work well until I open the doors! There is also some error when doing a strong slip to lose altitude. More importantly, the static errors will effect your altimeter, and our encoder if you are using Mode C. There may be a conflict between your indicated altitude, and that which is reported to ATC. I'm not sure how much "off-altitude" you are permitted until the ATC/FAA becomes interested. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "scooby harrington" scoobytrash@hotmail.com -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series 6. I have combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone know where I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being much better than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct location is. Thanks! Scooby On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=R etirement Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/ ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:33 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Fantastic! I'd love to shoot over and chat. I hear the Dublin guys jumping all the time on the radio. Never did it myself, but maybe someday. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W Duke Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:43 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke Bradley, I was at KPXE Saturday a couple of weeks ago with our S6. I got a brief look at your Fox. If you are ever over near Dublin (KDBN), give me a call 478 689 4942. Our airplane is based at KDBN now but if I can get my hangar finished I will move it to 32 degrees 22.85 N 83 degrees 03.50 W You are welcome to land there any time. Almost exactly halfway between KDBN and KEZM. 2000 ft long appr east west runway next to a pond. Arch building near one end Also there will be some big time parachute activity in Dublin this weekend if you would like to come watch. I expect to be at the airport most of the day Saturday. Maxwell Duke do not archive Bradley M Webb wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" That's exactly where I am. I'm based out at Perry, KPXE. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Logan Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:19 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Middle Georgia? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Logan" Bradley, Where in Middle Georgia are you located? I grew up in Warner Robins and get back there a couple of times a year. It can get hot and steamy for long periods of time in the summer. Mike Logan Series 5 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradley M Webb Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Well, you can feel even more jealous...a balmy 80 degrees and calm here in Middle Georgia. As soon as I finish this note, I'm off to the airport to log some time. All but you, Michel. I wish our landscape was as gorgeous as that. And take heart, Lowell. I miss the occasional snowball fight with the kids. Bradley --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:08 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Toe in Toe Out --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Torgeir, Thanks a bunch for the links. Thanks!! Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torgeir Mortensen" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Toe in Toe Out > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen > > Hi there, > > A real good reference, Graham E. Launch. > > Here is some more "web" info about the problem (even mention our kind of > AC, the Kitfox). > > http://www.bluemaxul.com/rans/messages/249.html > > Then the great "toe debate": A good one!! It's RC, but the "practical" > theory is just as good as the real thing. > > http://rcmf.co.uk/articles/toe-debate.html > > ------------ > > Remember our cars, this is where all the "advanced" steering theory is > developed. > > If we have too much toe in (no servo here), the steering wheel will become > light, -also, during turn, the car tends to accelerate the turn by > itself! Have you ever tried such a car? > > Now the other way, to much toe out. This time the steering wheel become > very heavy and the car want to go back straight forward. > > --------------- > > The gear should be toe out for a tail dragger and toe in for a nose wheel > AC. The amount of toe out for the tail dragger should be very small, like > 0 to 0.5 degrees. The toe in for the mains in a nose wheel AC is not as > critical but should be small in order to reduce the rolling resistance on > takeoff. > > Some more: > > The toe angle must be measured with tail up (in level), and with proper > loading. > > With to much toe out, the wheels tend to spread and stretching the rubber > feather. What about take off at max. gross in an rough out field > operation. > > Anyhow, did not SS said toe in ??? > > Cheers > > Torgeir. > > > On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:11:19 -0800, Lowell Fitt > wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" >> >> The following is a copy of a post sent 2 Jan 1997 to the old >> kitfox@lists.Colorado.EDU, by Graham E. Laucht, a name many of the old >> timers on the list will remember, and a wonder of knowledge. >> >> The post is in response to the following question: >> >>> Im looking at my wheel alignment (classic 4) and see about 6 inches toe >>> in >>> measured at the >elevator. >> >>> How much miss alignment is acceptable and what are the effects besides >>> tire >>> wear. I don't want >to start using a crow bar to spring the wheels of it >>> isn't necessary. >> >> _____ >> >> As a general rule toe in on a taildragger (wheel rims closer together at >> the >> front) is strongly destabilising and therefore toe out (wheels rims >> further >> apart at the front) is less unstable. In simple terms the risks >> associated >> with ground loops etc. are greater with toe in. They still don't go away, >> however. The position is different on a trike which in any case is >> strongly >> stable to start with due to the CG being ahead of the main gear. >> >> The actual angles are very much determined by the CG position, it's >> position >> with relationship to the main gear and to the masses disposed about the >> CG >> but again a general rule of thumb between 1 and 2 degrees of total toe >> out >> is desirable but no more. Some types are even set up neutral and some >> even >> assymetric to compensate for P effect. If you have heavier than design >> engine installation the book figure may be incorrect. Likewise additional >> tail weight, batteries up the back end etc. all conspire to alter the >> dynamics and generally call for less easily breaking tailwheels. >> >> Taildraggers that are particularly skittish on the ground can often be >> found >> to have landing gear damage though of course there are other possible >> explanations. >> >> One of the main reasons tailwheel locking was employed in large tailwheel >> aircraft like the DC3 was to do with amount of mass ahead of the CG as >> they >> offered little corrective restraint from a yaw or skid or from assymetric >> power application. Wheel 'em on , wheel 'em off being the motto. >> >> Loose tailwheels, broken or weak steering springs, incorrect castor >> angle, >> saggy springs all contribute to the problem. >> >> NB the effect of one soft tyre on a dragger is exactly the same as toe >> in, >> as I found out the other day, especially when it's on the windward side >> of >> the crosswind. A bystander actually believed I had cleared the active >> runway >> quickly on purpose, little did he know the driver was ten milliseconds >> behind his demented supermarket trolley. >> >> - >> >> Graham E. Laucht >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:54 PM PST US From: Bill Hammond Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Bill Hammond ATC gets interested if the altitude that you report differs from your mode-c by more than 300'. That was true the last time that I sat at a radar scope - about 4 hours ago. Of course, if your encoder is vented to cabin static air, the report that ATC derives will show the same thing that your altimeter shows. That may or may not be your actual altitude above sea level. That is an important consideration if you are counting on ATC to keep you out of the rocks or to provide vertical separation with other aircraft. So don't think that you can bluff your way out of Class A or B airspace by resetting your altimeter. I say that "ATC derives" because encoders are basically stupid. They send your pressure altitude to the ATC computers. I have to set the ATC computer to the local altimeter setting just like you would do in your Kollsman window. The ATC computer then corrects the pressure altitude from your mode-c and displays it to the controller as an MSL altitude (when below 18,000 in the USA). Above 18,000 feet everybody flies at a pressure altitude (Flight Level) by setting the altimeter to 29.92. If the local pressure is below 29.92, some of the lowest flight levels become unusable for separation. They will not be a true 1,000' (or more) above 17,000. I'll leave that brain teaser for you to figure out. A little note here - the ATC computer is actually set by an array of digital altimeter setting indicators. The local pressure setting is updated automatically once each minute. In a large geographic area, the computer will apply the proper correction to your mode-c based upon the adapted altimeter region that you are flying. If the automatic altimeter interface fails, I can set the altimeter manually. I am required to keep the ATC computer within .02 inches of actual local pressure. Now there's more than you wanted to know..... Bill Hammond Parker, CO Series 6 - N913KF skyflyte@comcast.net wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: skyflyte@comcast.net > > I have my static source behind the instrument panel, and it seems to work well until I open the doors! There is also some error when doing a strong slip to lose altitude. More importantly, the static errors will effect your altimeter, and our encoder if you are using Mode C. There may be a conflict between your indicated altitude, and that which is reported to ATC. I'm not sure how much "off-altitude" you are permitted until the ATC/FAA becomes interested. > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "scooby harrington" > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" >> >>I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series >>6. I have >>combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone know >>where >>I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? >> >>I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being much >>better >>than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct >>location is. >> >>Thanks! >> >>Scooby >> >>On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to >>get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > I have my static source behind the instrument panel, and it seems to work well until I open the doors! There is also some error when doing a strong slip to lose altitude. More importantly, the static errors will effect your altimeter, and our encoder if you are using Mode C. There may be a conflict between your indicated altitude, and that which is reported to ATC. I'm not sure how much "off-altitude" you are permitted until the ATC/FAA becomes interested. > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "scooby harrington" scoobytrash@hotmail.com > > -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" > > I am having trouble figuring out where to put my static ports on my series > 6. I have > combed the manual and cant find any reference to it at all, does anyone know > where > I can find drawings showing where to put static ports? > > I searched the archives and found lots of threads about cabin air being much > better > than a poorly located static port but no indication where the correct > location is. > > Thanks! > > Scooby > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=R > etirement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:10 PM PST US From: AMuller589@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: static port location on Series 6? Off topic --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com to be considered safe for flight an altimeter should be within 75 (plus or minus) feet of the field elevation when the current altimeter setting is placed in the Kollsman window.(check before each flight) See the AERONAUTICAL INFORMATION MANUAL Chapter 7 paragraph 7-2-3 Altimeter Errors. In flight the altimeter setting of the nearest reporting station should be used. ATC depends on your setting the altimeter accordingly and if there is an error greater than 75 feet + - your instrument must be repaired. If the error is less than + - 75 feet do not correct your setting to achieve field elevation you must set the current altimeter setting in the window and fly your IFR and VFR altitude accordingly without corrections; you must make allowances for the error to clear terrain. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:41 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wing Tips From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" Michel wrote: > On Mar 13, 2006, at 4:40 PM, Richard Rabbers wrote: > > 1936? That's funny, Richard! I owned a 25 feet Cornish gaff-rigged > cutter Nice boat Michel! - flying / sailing is a good mix. When I started flying I considered it cheating - going to weather was too easy!.... obviously nothing is easy, it's all relative. I've let a few years go by without enough of either but look forward to alot more of both soon. - my boat photos are not digital - I'll send a shot sometime. She's a canoe stern double ender, copper riveted iroko on oak. Regards, Do not archive -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21658#21658 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:32 PM PST US From: James Shumaker Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Today's flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker Beautiful pictures of snow Micheal. Did you know that we also have snow in California? Yes, two or three times a year we get the nearby peaks dusted with the white stuff. So yesterday we went and played. http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Bills_snow_uphill_climb.jpg This is what we call Sierra Cement, in spring time conditions. Somtimes referred to as "slop". The runway is quite steep uphill. This is a picture of taxiing up to the take-off turn around. Happy winter flying to you :-) Jim Shumaker ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:22 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Toe in Toe Out --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan OK. You've convinced me that I have to get rid of the toe-in. (About 3/4 degree total.) I have covered tube gear. Has anybody bent their covered tube gear without removing the covering? I really dread getting a wrinkle. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.