Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:47 AM - Re: 912UL install help on a classic IV to Brett W. (n93hj) (Ceashman@aol.com)
2. 02:52 AM - Re: 912UL install help on a classic IV (Brett Walmsley)
3. 03:21 AM - Re: Re: looking for a CFI in michigan (Lynn Matteson)
4. 06:44 AM - in michigan (Sid Hausding)
5. 07:16 AM - Re: looking for a CFI in michigan (Richard Rabbers)
6. 08:19 AM - Triangular Window Installation (James C. Hartford)
7. 08:24 AM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (kurt schrader)
8. 08:33 AM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) (Michael Gibbs)
9. 08:37 AM - Re: Triangular Window Installation (Hank)
10. 09:16 AM - Re: Triangular Window Installation (Mike Chaney)
11. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) (Clint Bazzill)
12. 09:24 AM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (wingsdown)
13. 09:48 AM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) (kitfoxmike)
14. 12:06 PM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) (wingnut)
15. 12:10 PM - Re: Triangular Window Installation (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
16. 12:28 PM - Re: Triangular Window Installation (James C. Hartford)
17. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) (Chuck & Deanna Schieffer)
18. 03:21 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (John Anderson)
19. 03:23 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (John Anderson)
20. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (Jim Burke)
21. 04:20 PM - Trutrak (alnanarthur)
22. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (Lowell Fitt)
23. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) (Lowell Fitt)
24. 05:28 PM - Re: Rib stitching (Jerry Liles)
25. 05:51 PM - Re: Rib stitching (Dee Young)
26. 05:51 PM - Terminology (Mike Ford)
27. 05:52 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (Comp User)
28. 06:19 PM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (wingnut)
29. 06:42 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (wingsdown)
30. 06:45 PM - Re: Rib stitching (Glenn Horne)
31. 10:03 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (kurt schrader)
32. 10:27 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (kurt schrader)
33. 11:08 PM - Re: Rib stitching (Alan & Linda Daniels)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 912UL install help on a classic IV to Brett W. (n93hj) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
Brett.
You are always welcome take a look and take pictures at anytime.
Right now the IV is in the new hangar at Whispering Pines. (look at the ATL
sectional, about two inches below Gwinnett Co.(LZU).
I need to do the annual but been busy with work and the house. The main thing
is that N893 has a home and one day I will do the annual and be back in the
air.
You will probably need driving directions, call 770-482-8105 in the evenings.
We normally go over to the new place on weekends but let us set up a time and
we can open up the hangar for you.
By now yours is all painted and on it's landing gear? now is the time all the
warm and fuzzy feelings start happening, so cool!
Give us a call,. Eric.
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 912UL install help on a classic IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
Thanks for the replies. Yes it is a 912 in a classic IV with round cowl.
Wingnut, some pictures would be great whenever you get a chance.
Lowell, Thanks for the offer. I am looking for general photos of the install. Just
top, bottom, sides. For general component locations. I also have the factory
radiator scoop with no instructions so some pictures of that if someone has
them would be wonderful.
--------
Brett
Model IV 1200/912UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23091#23091
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: looking for a CFI in michigan |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Richard-
I've got a header tank for the earlier (IV) if that will work...it
mounts behind the baggage area, not behind the seat (not tapered at the
top like the behind-the-seat model)
Lynn
On Tuesday, March 21, 2006, at 12:55 AM, Richard Rabbers wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers"
> <rira1950@yahoo.com>
>
> Bruce >> I am selling the Model 1
>
>
> Bruce - Sorry to here your selling that beauty. Tempting since mine
> is still pretty far from flight ... but ... personal reasons require
> me to be a one plane man. Someone here may have interest. This list
> strips attachments including photos. Someone may have a suggestion for
> how to share your pics. If you have any extra parts... like a header
> tank I'd looking for one.
>
> BTW - I got lucky and now have a construction manual for my model 1 -
> the prevouis owner came across it and relayed it recently.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> --------
> Richard in SW Michigan
> Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23080#23080
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
Bruce,
If you consider parting it out, I would be interested in the floats and rigging
for them for an Avid.
Sid
-------------in Michigan too
bruce <bruce@> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "bruce"
Richard
Do to personal reasons, I am selling the Model 1 I bought on eBay in MI. It is
still in the enclosed trailer that I picked it up with in January (including the
amphibious floats). I paid 17100 and I am not looking to make a profit. Do
you have interest or do you know someone who has interest? Last annual was 6/5/05.
Pic is attached. I can deliver.
Bruce Knight
888 265 2114
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Richard Rabbers"
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers"
>
>Malcolm,
>
>The FBO in Allegan in SW Michigan has an Aeronca Camp and 2 tailwheel instructors.
I got my tailwheel training there.
>
>They are hoping to get another champ at some point in the future and add float
training.
>
> >>Where in Michigan are you? There's a CFI in Cadillac who is TG proficient.
He teaches floats too. Contact me off list if you'd like his number.
>
>--------
>Richard in SW Michigan
>Model 1 / 618 lotus floats (restoration)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20884#20884
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at globaltrucktraders.com
"Why can't we all just get along?"
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: looking for a CFI in michigan |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
Lynn Matteson wrote:
> I've got a header tank for the earlier (IV) if that will work...it
>
[/quote]
Lynn,
Thanks
.... does this tank mount on the back side of the same area? (as the behind the
seat tank) Also - what is the capacity?
BTW - congratulations on your progress!
I look forward to a Michigan Fox fly-in.
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23132#23132
Message 6
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| Subject: | Triangular Window Installation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "James C. Hartford" <jhartford@hartford-engineering.com>
I remember seeing a window frame for the triangular window that is
normally sewn into the fabric on a Fox, but have been unable to locate
it in the archives. I may be using the wrong search string, but have had
no luck in locating. Could anyone on the list assist me in locating
this information. I would like to fabricate a set for my Model II.
Thanks Jim Hartford
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi John,
With those temps and OAT, you might get what you want
from just changing to the big alum radiator. That
should be an easy change for you if you can get your
hands on one.
Your pics show a lot of great work and invention by
you. You deserve to see that plane fly embarrassingly
well. :-) Sorry if your friends with store bought
planes won't talk to you after riding in your's later.
:-( Ha ha
If you take a side picture of your complete plane and
turn it upside down as in inverted flight, you can
suddenly see where the front of the cowl is a high
lift (low pressure) area. We are used to seeing this
on our wings, but the air doesn't know right side up
from inverted, so we miss seeing what the air is doing
here because of our point of view. We tend to think
of lift only going up, but it doesn't.
Bugs show you dynamic pressure, but not static
pressure. In this place on the cowl the 2 are in
conflict.
VG's would net you a little more dynamic pressure, but
the bigger radiator might take care of it all.
I also have my radiator air and cowl air seperated and
agree that is the best route for cooling.
Got to go to work now. Hope you can get an alum
radiator and fly it in confidence from then on.
Kurt S.
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry Kurt, I wrote this below in a rush but I think
> you'll get my gist. I uploaded so shots at
>
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1142915948.
>
> John
>
> Hmm Kurt, I thought that area is still pretty high
> pressure still where I
> have the inlet and where the radiator is is low
> pressure. If you look at the
> cowel around that area, thats were all the bugs hit
> and that's usually high
> pressure. The plenum area to the radiator is
> seperate from the engine air
> except for the lower part of the sump (cooling piped
> and finned) and this
> sees the radiator air also. My temps are oil, around
> 190 F approx (we all
> C here) and water water 210F approx 110C. I also
> have an Earls heater
> cooler also in the heater circ which is hooked to
> the water/oli cooler and
> turbo. I've opened the exit area to the main cowl a
> bit so hope this will
> enhance the airflow to this radiator and help the
> intercooler as it exhausts
> into this area. The OAT is around 23c. John
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Wingnut asks:
>Why is your VNE so much higher than mine?
The older Model IVs had a 125 mph Vne. They later increased Vne to
140 mph on the Speedster models and the later Series 5, 6, and 7
aircraft.
>While you don't want to excede it on purpose, Vne isn't a hard limit
>at which point you will abruptly loose your wings.
Yes, there is some margin built in but, yes, it is a hard limit as
far as I'm concerned. Since you don't know what the manufacturer
based Vne on (i.e., control surface flutter, structural integrity,
etc.), you are definitely in test-pilot-mode if you exceed Vne.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Triangular Window Installation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hank <hank@hankseidel.com>
http://www.blueskyaviation.net/catalog.html
On Mar 21, 2006, at 10:28 AM, James C. Hartford wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "James C. Hartford"
> <jhartford@hartford-engineering.com>
>
> I remember seeing a window frame for the triangular window that is
> normally sewn into the fabric on a Fox, but have been unable to locate
> it in the archives. I may be using the wrong search string, but
> have had
> no luck in locating. Could anyone on the list assist me in locating
> this information. I would like to fabricate a set for my Model II.
>
>
> Thanks Jim Hartford
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Triangular Window Installation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
Jim
I made a set of triangle window frames off of a diagram John King provided
me a number of years ago. Without looking I think I rivited mine in. If
John is still on this list, which I think he is, he may still have this
info. If you don't get this info let me know and I will try to explain what
I did.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James C.
Hartford
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:29 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Triangular Window Installation
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "James C. Hartford"
<jhartford@hartford-engineering.com>
I remember seeing a window frame for the triangular window that is
normally sewn into the fabric on a Fox, but have been unable to locate
it in the archives. I may be using the wrong search string, but have had
no luck in locating. Could anyone on the list assist me in locating
this information. I would like to fabricate a set for my Model II.
Thanks Jim Hartford
############################################################################
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
The difference on the Model IV 1200 Speedster was little. The flaperons on
the Speedster were divided and had 2 on each. The Long wing Model IV-1200
had 1 on each wing, twice as heavy. The early Speedster had split flaperons
and then retaped. The wind screen on the speedster was .125 inches and the
Model IV-1200 had .093. Above 125 mph there was a distortion of the lexan.
I know a friend that broke at least 2 trying to install the .125 inch. I
put a .125 on my Model IV-1200 with no problem. I consider my VNE 140 mph.
Clint
From: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Wingnut asks:
>Why is your VNE so much higher than mine?
The older Model IVs had a 125 mph Vne. They later increased Vne to
140 mph on the Speedster models and the later Series 5, 6, and 7
aircraft.
>While you don't want to excede it on purpose, Vne isn't a hard limit
>at which point you will abruptly loose your wings.
Yes, there is some margin built in but, yes, it is a hard limit as
far as I'm concerned. Since you don't know what the manufacturer
based Vne on (i.e., control surface flutter, structural integrity,
etc.), you are definitely in test-pilot-mode if you exceed Vne.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 12
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| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
Just beautiful. Wish I was still modifying things myself. I am just
wondering if you cooling problems are in cruise or full power climb out?
Rick,
former model 5 driver :)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
wingnut,
another thing you might want to consider is the guages respond after things have
already happened. think of the guages hooked to the aircraft with a rubber
band. By the time the vertical speed has reacted the plane has already gone up.
So, after some time in the airplane you will feel the lift, decent, yaw, and
can respond before it becomes a problem.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23178#23178
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Yup. I think I'm starting to get a feel for it. I had some excitement at the beginning
of that same cross country when my speedo went out on takeoff. I just
stayed in the pattern and tried to feel for the right airpspeed on final. I couldn't
have been to far off since it was my best landing of the day and my rollout
was same as usual. Pucker factor was very high so I certainly still have
a long way to go :-)
It was just the smallest piece of what looked like tissue in th pito tube that
killed my speedo. I'm thinking about ditching the little spring actuated flap
for a pito cover.
-Luis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23202#23202
Message 15
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| Subject: | Triangular Window Installation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Check with Blue Sky Aviation. They have an upgrade/replacement kit for same.
If you look at the Sportflight site/repairs/modifications you will see pictures
that I posted a month or so ago.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@swoca.net>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney
>
> Jim
>
> I made a set of triangle window frames off of a diagram John King provided
> me a number of years ago. Without looking I think I rivited mine in. If
> John is still on this list, which I think he is, he may still have this
> info. If you don't get this info let me know and I will try to explain what
> I did.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James C.
> Hartford
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:29 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Triangular Window Installation
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "James C. Hartford"
>
>
> I remember seeing a window frame for the triangular window that is
> normally sewn into the fabric on a Fox, but have been unable to locate
> it in the archives. I may be using the wrong search string, but have had
> no luck in locating. Could anyone on the list assist me in locating
> this information. I would like to fabricate a set for my Model II.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks Jim Hartford
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ############################################################################
> ####
> This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at
> SWOCA.
> ############################################################################
> ####
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Check with Blue Sky Aviation. They have an upgrade/replacement kit for same. If
you look at the Sportflight site/repairs/modifications you will see pictures
that I posted a month or so ago.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Mike Chaney mdps_mc@swoca.net
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <MDPS_MC@SWOCA.NET>
Jim
I made a set of triangle window frames off of a diagram John King provided
me a number of years ago. Without looking I think I rivited mine in. If
John is still on this list, which I think he is, he may still have this
info. If you don't get this info let me know and I will try to explain what
I did.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James C.
Hartford
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:29 AM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Triangular W
indow Installation
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "James C. Hartford"
<JHARTFORD@HARTFORD-ENGINEERING.COM>
I remember seeing a window frame for the triangular window that is
normally sewn into the fabric on a Fox, but have been unable to locate
it in the archives. I may be using the wrong search string, but have had
no luck in locating. Could anyone on the list assist me in locating
this information. I would like to fabricate a set for my Model II.
Thanks Jim Hartford
############################################################################
####
This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at
SWOCA.
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####
</html
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Triangular Window Installation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "James C. Hartford" <jhartford@hartford-engineering.com>
Thanks to all the responded. This was the information I was looking for.
Thanks again
Jim Hartford Don't Archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James C.
Hartford
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:29 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Triangular Window Installation
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "James C. Hartford"
<jhartford@hartford-engineering.com>
I remember seeing a window frame for the triangular window that is
normally sewn into the fabric on a Fox, but have been unable to locate
it in the archives. I may be using the wrong search string, but have had
no luck in locating. Could anyone on the list assist me in locating
this information. I would like to fabricate a set for my Model II.
Thanks Jim Hartford
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Deanna Schieffer" <cdschieffer@starnetdial.net>
With all the discussion on VNE on model IVs, I have a Model IV-1200 with a
912uls. The airspeed indicator is a Kitfox unit with a red line at 97 on
the indicator. I usually cruise about 90, could this indicator be in Knots
or is this not the correct as indicator for this model? I bought the a/c
from the original builder. I believe he started it in 92 and finished in 94
and the serial # on the a/c is about 1811 I believe.
Chuck Schieffer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member)
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> Wingnut asks:
>
>>Why is your VNE so much higher than mine?
>
> The older Model IVs had a 125 mph Vne. They later increased Vne to
> 140 mph on the Speedster models and the later Series 5, 6, and 7
> aircraft.
>
>>While you don't want to excede it on purpose, Vne isn't a hard limit
>>at which point you will abruptly loose your wings.
>
> Yes, there is some margin built in but, yes, it is a hard limit as
> far as I'm concerned. Since you don't know what the manufacturer
> based Vne on (i.e., control surface flutter, structural integrity,
> etc.), you are definitely in test-pilot-mode if you exceed Vne.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Rick, yes you MUST miss your toy. I'm so impressed how well my bird
flies, smooth and controls feel as good as a Beaver... I've only done 6
circs so far so not tested much in the cruise yet. About to have another fly
today. Oil temp seems good, the engine is pulling around 5psi of boost, is
that compatable with what yours used to do? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
Just beautiful. Wish I was still modifying things myself. I am just
wondering if you cooling problems are in cruise or full power climb out?
Rick,
former model 5 driver :)
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Kurt, no where would I get one of those... big rad. If you could give
me the dimensions I could look at getting one made as big cost to get one
sent all this way from State side. John
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi John,
With those temps and OAT, you might get what you want
from just changing to the big alum radiator. That
should be an easy change for you if you can get your
hands on one.
Your pics show a lot of great work and invention by
you. You deserve to see that plane fly embarrassingly
well. :-) Sorry if your friends with store bought
planes won't talk to you after riding in your's later.
:-( Ha ha
If you take a side picture of your complete plane and
turn it upside down as in inverted flight, you can
suddenly see where the front of the cowl is a high
lift (low pressure) area. We are used to seeing this
on our wings, but the air doesn't know right side up
from inverted, so we miss seeing what the air is doing
here because of our point of view. We tend to think
of lift only going up, but it doesn't.
Bugs show you dynamic pressure, but not static
pressure. In this place on the cowl the 2 are in
conflict.
VG's would net you a little more dynamic pressure, but
the bigger radiator might take care of it all.
I also have my radiator air and cowl air seperated and
agree that is the best route for cooling.
Got to go to work now. Hope you can get an alum
radiator and fly it in confidence from then on.
Kurt S.
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry Kurt, I wrote this below in a rush but I think
> you'll get my gist. I uploaded so shots at
>
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1142915948.
>
> John
>
> Hmm Kurt, I thought that area is still pretty high
> pressure still where I
> have the inlet and where the radiator is is low
> pressure. If you look at the
> cowel around that area, thats were all the bugs hit
> and that's usually high
> pressure. The plenum area to the radiator is
> seperate from the engine air
> except for the lower part of the sump (cooling piped
> and finned) and this
> sees the radiator air also. My temps are oil, around
> 190 F approx (we all
> C here) and water water 210F approx 110C. I also
> have an Earls heater
> cooler also in the heater circ which is hooked to
> the water/oli cooler and
> turbo. I've opened the exit area to the main cowl a
> bit so hope this will
> enhance the airflow to this radiator and help the
> intercooler as it exhausts
> into this area. The OAT is around 23c. John
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
I have been reading this discussion and trying to figure out how in the
world you guys are getting all this speed from your Kitfox's. I've got to
say I am so jealous of your speeds I'm just beside myself. I have a IV-1200
ser# 1830 with a 582,575 lbs empty,long wings,faring on the struts and
landing gear support. I don't have wheel pants, I'm sure they would help a
bit. I think the only way I could reach VNE of 125 MPH would be pointing 40
degrees down and full power. I don't think I have ever seen over 110 MPH on
the speed indicator even in rough air. It could be I need to replace my
speed indicator or at least have it checked. I usually cruse at 70 MPH @5600
Rpm and 75 mph @ 6000 rpm. my Gamin confirms a matching ground speed on a
clam evening. So does the 912ul make that much difference with a increase of
15 HP or do I need to make some major changes? I don't mean to say I'm not
happy with my Kitfox performance, But all those high speeds boggle the
mind. Like always all your input is a plus. If someone has a set up similar
to my Fox, I would also welcome your input.
Jim N94JE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck & Deanna Schieffer" <cdschieffer@starnetdial.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member)
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Deanna Schieffer"
> <cdschieffer@starnetdial.net>
>
> With all the discussion on VNE on model IVs, I have a Model IV-1200 with a
> 912uls. The airspeed indicator is a Kitfox unit with a red line at 97 on
> the indicator. I usually cruise about 90, could this indicator be in
> Knots
> or is this not the correct as indicator for this model? I bought the a/c
> from the original builder. I believe he started it in 92 and finished in
> 94
> and the serial # on the a/c is about 1811 I believe.
> Chuck Schieffer
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Michel,
Now that you have been using the Trutrak Turn and Bank for a while,
how do you like it? Have you noticed any anomalies or strange
behavior. I'm day VFR , but I would like to have a gyro of some
kind. I am looking at the Trutrak ADI at $1095. Any comments?
Allan Arthur
Kitfox 5, N40AA
Rotax 912s, Warpdrive 3 blade
Byron Airport, CA (C83) Hanger C8
On Dec 11, 2005, at 6:16 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Hello Kitfoxers,
> Last September, Clif wrote the following:
>
> On Sep 21, 2005, at 5:20 PM, Clifford Begnaud wrote:
>> Have you seen this:
>> http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ttfsinstruments.html
>
> Yes Clif, I saw it, I bought it and I love it! Actually it was
> supposed
> to be my Christmas present but ... as a spoiled kid, I had to try it
> now! So, I installed it in five minutes and went flying today. It
> works
> super-duper, it's cheap, very light and does a splendid job at showing
> my bank and turn rate. Here is a photo taken today:
>
> http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/bank.jpg
>
> Note that the only moving part is the blue (sky) half-circle.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hi, Jim,
I think the biggest speed drag on the Model IV is the absence of elevator
trim - using the flaperons for pitch trim. Flaps are usually designed to
increase lift and drag. To use flaps for pitch trim would increase drag
significantly and this is how the early KFs were designed. The later models
use a movable horizontal stab for pitch trim.
When I bought my kit, I opted for the trim tab in the elevator and closed
the gaps in both the vertical and horizontal tails with foam and fiberglass.
That is where I believe I get most of my cruise performance and in my
opinion, that is where the later models get theirs also. Lift Strut
fairings help as do other fairings, but the big improvement is in the trim
system. I don't remember the math, but to increase performance, a little
bit of drag reduction helps as much as a lot of extra horsepower.
On the way back from a trip once, I played a bit with the trim. I trimmed
for a little nose up with the trim tab and then trimmed for level using the
flaperons and speed definitely degraded. I don't remember how much.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Burke" <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
> I have been reading this discussion and trying to figure out how in the
> world you guys are getting all this speed from your Kitfox's. I've got to
> say I am so jealous of your speeds I'm just beside myself. I have a
> IV-1200
> ser# 1830 with a 582,575 lbs empty,long wings,faring on the struts and
> landing gear support. I don't have wheel pants, I'm sure they would help a
> bit. I think the only way I could reach VNE of 125 MPH would be pointing
> 40
> degrees down and full power. I don't think I have ever seen over 110 MPH
> on
> the speed indicator even in rough air. It could be I need to replace my
> speed indicator or at least have it checked. I usually cruse at 70 MPH
> @5600
> Rpm and 75 mph @ 6000 rpm. my Gamin confirms a matching ground speed on a
> clam evening. So does the 912ul make that much difference with a increase
> of
> 15 HP or do I need to make some major changes? I don't mean to say I'm not
> happy with my Kitfox performance, But all those high speeds boggle the
> mind. Like always all your input is a plus. If someone has a set up
> similar
> to my Fox, I would also welcome your input.
>
> Jim N94JE
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck & Deanna Schieffer" <cdschieffer@starnetdial.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member)
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Deanna Schieffer"
>> <cdschieffer@starnetdial.net>
>>
>> With all the discussion on VNE on model IVs, I have a Model IV-1200 with
>> a
>> 912uls. The airspeed indicator is a Kitfox unit with a red line at 97 on
>> the indicator. I usually cruise about 90, could this indicator be in
>> Knots
>> or is this not the correct as indicator for this model? I bought the a/c
>> from the original builder. I believe he started it in 92 and finished in
>> 94
>> and the serial # on the a/c is about 1811 I believe.
>> Chuck Schieffer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Chuck,
My guess is that your ASI is in MPH. My airplane is near your vintage and
that is what my SS suplied ASI reads in. A real quick check would be to use
the calculator found at:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/tasgpscalc.html
And fly a triangle course at a given airspeed and as instructed record the
GPS speeds at each heading. Take the data home and plug it into the
calculator and you will get TAS, wind speed and direction.
The interesting part is that you only need to fly three legs at 90 degree of
each other.
Lowell
From: "Chuck & Deanna Schieffer" <cdschieffer@starnetdial.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member)
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Deanna Schieffer"
> <cdschieffer@starnetdial.net>
>
> With all the discussion on VNE on model IVs, I have a Model IV-1200 with a
> 912uls. The airspeed indicator is a Kitfox unit with a red line at 97 on
> the indicator. I usually cruise about 90, could this indicator be in
> Knots
> or is this not the correct as indicator for this model? I bought the a/c
> from the original builder. I believe he started it in 92 and finished in
> 94
> and the serial # on the a/c is about 1811 I believe.
> Chuck Schieffer
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:33 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member)
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>>
>> Wingnut asks:
>>
>>>Why is your VNE so much higher than mine?
>>
>> The older Model IVs had a 125 mph Vne. They later increased Vne to
>> 140 mph on the Speedster models and the later Series 5, 6, and 7
>> aircraft.
>>
>>>While you don't want to excede it on purpose, Vne isn't a hard limit
>>>at which point you will abruptly loose your wings.
>>
>> Yes, there is some margin built in but, yes, it is a hard limit as
>> far as I'm concerned. Since you don't know what the manufacturer
>> based Vne on (i.e., control surface flutter, structural integrity,
>> etc.), you are definitely in test-pilot-mode if you exceed Vne.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
I'd say yes. Yes it is overkill and not really necessary and yes, it is
a sensible precaution - belt and suspenders sort of thing.
Jerry Liles
Graeme Toft wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
>OK, I know Im be a pest but I have one last question about covering my wings.
Is rib stitching overkill for the Kitfox 1V 1200 classic or a sensible precaution
?
>
>
>Cheers
>Graeme
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
I rib stitched and am very glad I did. Of all the things I can worry about when
off the ground - the fabric coming lose isn't one of them. Not ever. It was a
lot of fun to do, it was educational and looks very traditional.
Dee Young
Model II
Do not archive
Message 26
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
Hi guys,
Im looking to modify my cowl with an access door so that I can check the oil without
having to take the cowl off every time.
I am not sure if they have a kit for this or what. If there is a kit, I am not
sure what it'd be called.
Does anybody know of anything that would help? If youd know where to get it, even
better!
Thanks,
Mike
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
I looked at the pics. Nice setup. How is the cowl seal to the radiator? I
also had to put cowl behind the radiator to keep the air from boiling up
behind it and reducing flow through it. Also had to manage the airflow over
the engine through the cowl to help as much as possible.
Albert Smith
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
I suppose that the extra 15 hp could be a big difference but I have to throttle
way down to hold 75 so I'm guessing that you're flying with considerably more
parasitic drag. Next time I'm up I'll note the RPMs and manifold pressure at
75mph. Cross reference against the Rotax charts will tell me how much power it's
taking to fly at that speed. That would give us more to go on.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23317#23317
Message 29
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| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am not sure what altitude you are stating from, but if you are using
stock turbo pistons you should be at about 7PSI boost at sea level. The
stock pot is set to that. Again depends on RPM for gas flow to spin the
turbine. If your RPM is at 5200 or higher you should be showing 7PSI.
What turbo are you using? Infact with the fuel injection and intercooler
I would expect you could easily adjust up to 12PSI with no problems. But
if your not getting red of the heat your making, little sense in that. I
found the larger turbo model aluminum radiator provided by NSI to be
adequate for cooling, but its placement was critical for getting enough
air flow on the ground and at high AOA on full power climbs. I think you
have an excellent start with the design you have. May need more aft
radiator cowl work and design, possibly a ground or climb cooling fan.
Let me know if you have any specific questions. So many ways to skin a
cat.
Do you have a way to measure your intake temps or the delta across the
intercooler?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Rick, yes you MUST miss your toy. I'm so impressed how well my
bird
flies, smooth and controls feel as good as a Beaver... I've only done 6
circs so far so not tested much in the cruise yet. About to have another
fly
today. Oil temp seems good, the engine is pulling around 5psi of boost,
is
that compatable with what yours used to do? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
Just beautiful. Wish I was still modifying things myself. I am just
wondering if you cooling problems are in cruise or full power climb out?
Rick,
former model 5 driver :)
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@verizon.net>
Rib stitch. It's easy, and you will be glad you did.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
>
> I'd say yes. Yes it is overkill and not really necessary and yes, it is
> a sensible precaution - belt and suspenders sort of thing.
>
> Jerry Liles
>
> Graeme Toft wrote:
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>>
>>OK, I know Im be a pest but I have one last question about covering my
>>wings. Is rib stitching overkill for the Kitfox 1V 1200 classic or a
>>sensible precaution ?
>>
>>
>>Cheers
>>Graeme
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi John,
Right now I am on your side of the equator and a long
way from my Fox, so I am sorry I cant measure it just
yet. That I remember, the face is 6 inches high by 20
wide and 4 inches thick. This does not include the
closed ends that are about 2 inches wide on both
sides.
Rick or another turbo driver might be able to get the
actual dimensions for you sooner.
I think it is the same frontal area as yours and
should slip right in so you can keep the cowl the
same. It is just thicker. You could just design a
replacement like that. Same front, but twice as
thick. The aluminum rad was hardly any heavier than
the brass one too, even though it was bigger.
Hope this helps.
Kurt S.
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Kurt, no where would I get one of those...
> big rad. If you could give
> me the dimensions I could look at getting one made
> as big cost to get one
> sent all this way from State side. John
Message 32
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| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
Oh wise turbo man.... I have about a 10 degree rise
from OAT across my oil cooler in cruise. (As measured
by a temp bulb behind the cooler) I expected more.
Is this normal, or am I sized wrong for the airflow?
Kurt S.
> ...Do you have a way to measure your intake temps or
> the delta across the intercooler?
>
> Rick
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Rib stitching, riveting, and gluing are all good. I have nothing against
any of them, but just so some don't get overly afraid that their wing
fabric is going to come off in flight consider the strength of modern
fabric and glue. I think medium fabric will hold something like 130
pounds per square inch, were cotton was something like 15. If you use
proper procedures and follow the manufactures recommendations you WILL
NOT loose the fabric off the wing no matter what you do. You may rip the
wing off, but the fabric will still be on it. With 144 sq. inches in a
sq. foot times 132 sq. feet times 130 pounds per inch equals something
just short of 2.5 millions pounds on the wing fabric. Yes I know that
requires even load, full support each inch and all, but the point is
fabric is darn strong. With proper overlaps and procedures, and the
fabric held in tension against the wing structure it is not the weak
point. With no in-flight failures I am not sure what the weak point is
as no one has found it, except maybe the loose nut holding onto the
stick. Good attaching to the ribs helps keep fabric in the proper shape
during lift, but its not coming off.
Dee Young wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
>I rib stitched and am very glad I did. Of all the things I can worry about when
off the ground - the fabric coming lose isn't one of them. Not ever. It was
a lot of fun to do, it was educational and looks very traditional.
>
>Dee Young
>Model II
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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