Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (John Anderson)
2. 12:22 AM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (John Anderson)
3. 12:25 AM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (John Anderson)
4. 02:51 AM - Re: Rib stitching (Graeme Toft)
5. 03:56 AM - Paints vs Paints (Colin Durey)
6. 04:12 AM - Re: Terminology (Jim Burke)
7. 05:04 AM - Re: Rib stitching (Dee Young)
8. 05:32 AM - Re: Terminology (Mike Ford)
9. 05:35 AM - Attitude Gyro (falkonguage) (jareds)
10. 07:04 AM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (wingsdown)
11. 07:15 AM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (wingsdown)
12. 07:38 AM - Re: Paints vs Paints (Lowell Fitt)
13. 08:20 AM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) (kitfoxmike)
14. 08:28 AM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (kitfoxmike)
15. 08:49 AM - Re: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) (Mike Chaney)
16. 08:49 AM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (kitfoxmike)
17. 09:15 AM - Fw: Paints vs Paints (Tim Vader)
18. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (Frank Miles)
19. 09:52 AM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (kitfoxmike)
20. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (Frank Miles)
21. 10:09 AM - Re: Paints vs Paints (flier)
22. 10:13 AM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (kitfoxmike)
23. 10:16 AM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (kitfoxmike)
24. 10:32 AM - Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds (kitfoxmike)
25. 11:39 AM - 912 needle valves (Kaufjm@aol.com)
26. 11:39 AM - Re: Rib stitching (kurt schrader)
27. 11:45 AM - Re: Rib stitching (Lowell Fitt)
28. 11:54 AM - Re: Attitude Gyro (falkonguage) (Lowell Fitt)
29. 11:58 AM - Re: Paints vs Paints (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
30. 12:06 PM - Re: Rib stitching (Lowell Fitt)
31. 12:18 PM - Re: Soob cooling (was It Flew! Cooling) (kurt schrader)
32. 01:49 PM - Steve Wittman crash (Alan & Linda Daniels)
33. 02:02 PM - Re: Paints vs Paints (Graeme Toft)
34. 02:37 PM - Re: Paints vs Paints (John Anderson)
35. 03:26 PM - Re: Steve Wittman crash (Cudnohufsky's)
36. 03:33 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (John Anderson)
37. 06:20 PM - Re: Steve Wittman crash (Ceashman@aol.com)
38. 06:22 PM - Re: Steve Wittman crash (Alan & Linda Daniels)
39. 06:30 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (wingsdown)
40. 06:40 PM - Re: Paints vs Paints (Ceashman@AOL.COM)
41. 06:40 PM - Re: Steve Wittman crash (Jerry Liles)
42. 06:40 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (Comp User)
43. 07:41 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (John Anderson)
44. 07:42 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (John Anderson)
45. 08:45 PM - Re: Rib stitching (ron schick)
46. 09:42 PM - Re: Rib stitching (Graeme Toft)
47. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: looking for a CFI in michigan (Lynn Matteson)
48. 09:48 PM - Re: Steve Wittman crash (Alan & Linda Daniels)
49. 09:50 PM - Re: It Flew! Cooling. (Shaun Smith)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks for that Kurt. Well, I think I found the problem as suggested. After
running the engine until the temp was right up, I left it idling and got out
and fely the radiator and - bingo- the botom was STONE cold!! So all I can
say is the the small heater one is working reall well to keep the temps
where they were! So I'll get the feed end tank removed and so what goes but
it certainly is not flowing!! I'll let you know, do you have any data on the
other reported defective unit? John
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi John,
Right now I am on your side of the equator and a long
way from my Fox, so I am sorry I cant measure it just
yet. That I remember, the face is 6 inches high by 20
wide and 4 inches thick. This does not include the
closed ends that are about 2 inches wide on both
sides.
Rick or another turbo driver might be able to get the
actual dimensions for you sooner.
I think it is the same frontal area as yours and
should slip right in so you can keep the cowl the
same. It is just thicker. You could just design a
replacement like that. Same front, but twice as
thick. The aluminum rad was hardly any heavier than
the brass one too, even though it was bigger.
Hope this helps.
Kurt S.
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Kurt, no where would I get one of those...
> big rad. If you could give
> me the dimensions I could look at getting one made
> as big cost to get one
> sent all this way from State side. John
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
Message 2
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| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
My plan to measure the delta T once I get cooling sorted, you'll see my note
to Kurt re the rad. Sea level and I have an EA82 turbo, the idea being it
would not be getting it neck rung out at the higher revs compared the
automotive use. But from how the engine is going and power available, I
thing I'd prob be cruising around 4k or a little higher, not 5 like the
normall aspirated chaps seem to be. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am not sure what altitude you are stating from, but if you are using
stock turbo pistons you should be at about 7PSI boost at sea level. The
stock pot is set to that. Again depends on RPM for gas flow to spin the
turbine. If your RPM is at 5200 or higher you should be showing 7PSI.
What turbo are you using? Infact with the fuel injection and intercooler
I would expect you could easily adjust up to 12PSI with no problems. But
if your not getting red of the heat your making, little sense in that. I
found the larger turbo model aluminum radiator provided by NSI to be
adequate for cooling, but its placement was critical for getting enough
air flow on the ground and at high AOA on full power climbs. I think you
have an excellent start with the design you have. May need more aft
radiator cowl work and design, possibly a ground or climb cooling fan.
Let me know if you have any specific questions. So many ways to skin a
cat.
Do you have a way to measure your intake temps or the delta across the
intercooler?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Rick, yes you MUST miss your toy. I'm so impressed how well my
bird
flies, smooth and controls feel as good as a Beaver... I've only done 6
circs so far so not tested much in the cruise yet. About to have another
fly
today. Oil temp seems good, the engine is pulling around 5psi of boost,
is
that compatable with what yours used to do? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
Just beautiful. Wish I was still modifying things myself. I am just
wondering if you cooling problems are in cruise or full power climb out?
Rick,
former model 5 driver :)
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Cowl seal is good Abert, what shape etc is you exit cowl? Does it reduce to
speed up the air again? John
From: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
I looked at the pics. Nice setup. How is the cowl seal to the radiator? I
also had to put cowl behind the radiator to keep the air from boiling up
behind it and reducing flow through it. Also had to manage the airflow over
the engine through the cowl to help as much as possible.
Albert Smith
Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Is there any type of material that can be substituted safely for aircraft
type rib stitching. I just priced a role from Polyfiber and have been quoted
$64 for the thread and $25 for the needle. The role comes in one size with
sufficient length to rib stitch the worlds entire kitfox fleet. Has anyone
used anything else succesfully? I know, Im starting to penny pinch but Im
into my last piggy bank.
Cheers
Graeme -----
Original Message -----
From: "Alan & Linda Daniels" <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels
> <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>
> Rib stitching, riveting, and gluing are all good. I have nothing against
> any of them, but just so some don't get overly afraid that their wing
> fabric is going to come off in flight consider the strength of modern
> fabric and glue. I think medium fabric will hold something like 130
> pounds per square inch, were cotton was something like 15. If you use
> proper procedures and follow the manufactures recommendations you WILL
> NOT loose the fabric off the wing no matter what you do. You may rip the
> wing off, but the fabric will still be on it. With 144 sq. inches in a
> sq. foot times 132 sq. feet times 130 pounds per inch equals something
> just short of 2.5 millions pounds on the wing fabric. Yes I know that
> requires even load, full support each inch and all, but the point is
> fabric is darn strong. With proper overlaps and procedures, and the
> fabric held in tension against the wing structure it is not the weak
> point. With no in-flight failures I am not sure what the weak point is
> as no one has found it, except maybe the loose nut holding onto the
> stick. Good attaching to the ribs helps keep fabric in the proper shape
> during lift, but its not coming off.
>
> Dee Young wrote:
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>>
>>I rib stitched and am very glad I did. Of all the things I can worry about
>>when off the ground - the fabric coming lose isn't one of them. Not ever.
>>It was a lot of fun to do, it was educational and looks very traditional.
>>
>>Dee Young
>>Model II
>>
>>Do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Paints vs Paints |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
I'm almost regretting raising this, already, but... as I will soon be
facing the job of painting my KF4, I am trying to balance all the
cost/benefit/risk/etc/etc factors involved in this part of the project.
Everyone talks in glowing terms about Polytone/Polyfibre , and I'm sure
that its all correct, however, I have been talking to a number of friends
who have long experience in both automotive and industrial paints/coatings
and, I asked them specifically about using these types of paints on the
Kitfox, and am intrigued by some of the things that they have told me.
In connection with automotive paints - with the increase in the number of
flexible body panels (especially bumpers), usually made from poly vinyls,
various new paints have been compounded to cope with the flex and
distortion that these are subjected to, without crazing/cracking. There
are also a number of modifiers to add to certain standard acrylics and
lacquers to make them flexible and eliminate(?) craking and crazing. I've
seen some pretty impressive samples.
As to inductrial coatings, there are a number of products which are
designed for very flixible substrates, such as the vinyl and fabrics that
are used on the sides of Tautliners. These allow for very high gloss and
high resolution graphics as well as broad area fills on materials which
get rolled up into a spiral on a daily basis. While wings and fuselage
panels are subjected to movement, it certianly is not that to that degree.
There are also some specialty water base urethane paints which are very
flexible.
Anyway, my question is, what knowledge is available in the Kitfox
Brains-Trust that I can tap into on this subject? Info and guidance is
very welcome, but I can do without a beating. I need my strength to finish
the 'Fox.
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney
+61-418-677073 (M)
+61-2-945466162 (F)
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
Mike, I have a access door on my cowling to check the reserve oil for my
582. I would be glad to email you a picture off list for reference, if you
would like.
Jim N94JE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ford" <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Terminology
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Im looking to modify my cowl with an access door so that I can check the
> oil without having to take the cowl off every time.
>
> I am not sure if they have a kit for this or what. If there is a kit, I
> am not sure what it'd be called.
>
> Does anybody know of anything that would help? If youd know where to get
> it, even better!
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
The "loose nut holding onto the stick" used gas welding rod shaped and drilled.
It takes about 5 minutes to make one needle. The "loose nut holding the stick"
made 3 different sizes which seem to fill the bill. Hope this helps as I too
run on a limited budget.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Graeme Toft<mailto:msm@byterocky.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:44 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net<mailto:msm@byterocky.net>>
Is there any type of material that can be substituted safely for aircraft
type rib stitching. I just priced a role from Polyfiber and have been quoted
$64 for the thread and $25 for the needle. The role comes in one size with
sufficient length to rib stitch the worlds entire kitfox fleet. Has anyone
used anything else succesfully? I know, Im starting to penny pinch but Im
into my last piggy bank.
Cheers
Graeme -----
Original Message -----
From: "Alan & Linda Daniels" <aldaniels@fmtc.com<mailto:aldaniels@fmtc.com>>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels
> <aldaniels@fmtc.com<mailto:aldaniels@fmtc.com>>
>
> Rib stitching, riveting, and gluing are all good. I have nothing against
> any of them, but just so some don't get overly afraid that their wing
> fabric is going to come off in flight consider the strength of modern
> fabric and glue. I think medium fabric will hold something like 130
> pounds per square inch, were cotton was something like 15. If you use
> proper procedures and follow the manufactures recommendations you WILL
> NOT loose the fabric off the wing no matter what you do. You may rip the
> wing off, but the fabric will still be on it. With 144 sq. inches in a
> sq. foot times 132 sq. feet times 130 pounds per inch equals something
> just short of 2.5 millions pounds on the wing fabric. Yes I know that
> requires even load, full support each inch and all, but the point is
> fabric is darn strong. With proper overlaps and procedures, and the
> fabric held in tension against the wing structure it is not the weak
> point. With no in-flight failures I am not sure what the weak point is
> as no one has found it, except maybe the loose nut holding onto the
> stick. Good attaching to the ribs helps keep fabric in the proper shape
> during lift, but its not coming off.
>
> Dee Young wrote:
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com<mailto:henrysfork1@msn.com>>
>>
>>I rib stitched and am very glad I did. Of all the things I can worry about
>>when off the ground - the fabric coming lose isn't one of them. Not ever.
>>It was a lot of fun to do, it was educational and looks very traditional.
>>
>>Dee Young
>>Model II
>>
>>Do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
Hi Jim,
I would appreciate that.
Thanks!
Mike
Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com> wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
Jim Burke
Mike, I have a access door on my cowling to check the reserve oil for my
582. I would be glad to email you a picture off list for reference, if you
would like.
Jim N94JE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ford"
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Terminology
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Im looking to modify my cowl with an access door so that I can check the
> oil without having to take the cowl off every time.
>
> I am not sure if they have a kit for this or what. If there is a kit, I
> am not sure what it'd be called.
>
> Does anybody know of anything that would help? If youd know where to get
> it, even better!
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Attitude Gyro (falkonguage) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
65 hours ago i had purchased a brand new falconguage electric attitude
gyro. Just out of warrenty so falcon SAYS return and we'll send out a
re mfr for $300.
Unfortunately when they get it they decide over $800 later they'll quit
holding it hostage.
When i ask specifically what is wrong with it the emails are ignored.
Anyone had luck with an extremely in expensive electric or have seen any
good ads?
Message 10
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| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am not sure then John. The EA-82 is a bit different. Depending on
turbo size the 5 PSI boost may be right for the RPMs your turning. The
Turbo EA-81 torque band is between 3800 and 4200. So in cruise I would
suspect you should be fine. I wouldn't lug the engine on take off 5200
for best not most power, but also no need with that engine to run 6200
for most power either. AS you know there are a lot of variables to
consider when you have a turbo. Do you have an in-flight adjustable
prop? Just am aside you should be able to run LOP with that injector set
up which will save you some fuel, besides the Subaru likes lean anyway.
Another aside. Should for some reason you engine quite suddenly and it
didn't blow up. I would pull the fuel immediately then try restart. If
you don't there is a good chance the turbo will continue to spool and
pull fuel into the cylinders and wet them severely enough that a restart
might not happen. OK, old here, never mind you are hi teck injected
engine not crab or Ellison.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
My plan to measure the delta T once I get cooling sorted, you'll see my
note
to Kurt re the rad. Sea level and I have an EA82 turbo, the idea being
it
would not be getting it neck rung out at the higher revs compared the
automotive use. But from how the engine is going and power available, I
thing I'd prob be cruising around 4k or a little higher, not 5 like the
normall aspirated chaps seem to be. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am not sure what altitude you are stating from, but if you are using
stock turbo pistons you should be at about 7PSI boost at sea level. The
stock pot is set to that. Again depends on RPM for gas flow to spin the
turbine. If your RPM is at 5200 or higher you should be showing 7PSI.
What turbo are you using? Infact with the fuel injection and intercooler
I would expect you could easily adjust up to 12PSI with no problems. But
if your not getting red of the heat your making, little sense in that. I
found the larger turbo model aluminum radiator provided by NSI to be
adequate for cooling, but its placement was critical for getting enough
air flow on the ground and at high AOA on full power climbs. I think you
have an excellent start with the design you have. May need more aft
radiator cowl work and design, possibly a ground or climb cooling fan.
Let me know if you have any specific questions. So many ways to skin a
cat. Do you have a way to measure your intake temps or the delta across
the intercooler?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Rick, yes you MUST miss your toy. I'm so impressed how well my
bird flies, smooth and controls feel as good as a Beaver... I've only
done 6 circs so far so not tested much in the cruise yet. About to have
another fly today. Oil temp seems good, the engine is pulling around
5psi of boost, is that compatable with what yours used to do? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
Just beautiful. Wish I was still modifying things myself. I am just
wondering if you cooling problems are in cruise or full power climb out?
Rick,
former model 5 driver :)
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Message 11
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| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Humm, you mean from the inlet not OAT? The OAT is not the starting
point. It would be the oil temperature drop from the oil inlet to outlet
side. The air is being heated by the oil but has no relation to what the
drop in oil temp is across the cooler. No doubt there is a rise on both
ends. One thing I would recommend in an oil thermostat like the one I
installed from Mocal. But like all things open to another's perspective.
Mine worked very well and regulated oil temp great. I think more
important than the size of the cooler is its placement for air flow.
Going back, I am not saying the OAT is not relative but for what your
looking for not so much now. What is you full power climb peak oil temp
and cruise oil temp?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:26 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
Oh wise turbo man.... I have about a 10 degree rise
from OAT across my oil cooler in cruise. (As measured
by a temp bulb behind the cooler) I expected more.
Is this normal, or am I sized wrong for the airflow?
Kurt S.
> ...Do you have a way to measure your intake temps or
> the delta across the intercooler?
>
> Rick
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Paints vs Paints |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Colin,
You pose an excellent question. I do know that in the past, auto finishes
would eventually begin to crack. Also in the old days the oily film that
appeared on the inside of the windsheild was the plasticisers in the vinyl
dsh cap gassing out. The failure of this item in the UV of the sun
encouraged the cottage industry that produces the protective dash caps. I
don't know about the more modern finishes, but would consider this. The
roll down - roll up curtains are replacabel with the removal of a couple of
bolts in the event they fail (or the need for a graphics change). The same
can be said for the bumpers etc. The aftermarket dash caps provided a cheap
and easily replaced dashboard cover. And with an automoblile, they become
throw away items after five or six years. My Model IV has been flying
almost six years and I expect the finish to last at least another six or
more.
This probably doesn't help much, and is only presented as food for thought.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
>
> I'm almost regretting raising this, already, but... as I will soon be
> facing the job of painting my KF4, I am trying to balance all the
> cost/benefit/risk/etc/etc factors involved in this part of the project.
>
> Everyone talks in glowing terms about Polytone/Polyfibre , and I'm sure
> that its all correct, however, I have been talking to a number of friends
> who have long experience in both automotive and industrial paints/coatings
> and, I asked them specifically about using these types of paints on the
> Kitfox, and am intrigued by some of the things that they have told me.
>
> In connection with automotive paints - with the increase in the number of
> flexible body panels (especially bumpers), usually made from poly vinyls,
> various new paints have been compounded to cope with the flex and
> distortion that these are subjected to, without crazing/cracking. There
> are also a number of modifiers to add to certain standard acrylics and
> lacquers to make them flexible and eliminate(?) craking and crazing. I've
> seen some pretty impressive samples.
>
> As to inductrial coatings, there are a number of products which are
> designed for very flixible substrates, such as the vinyl and fabrics that
> are used on the sides of Tautliners. These allow for very high gloss and
> high resolution graphics as well as broad area fills on materials which
> get rolled up into a spiral on a daily basis. While wings and fuselage
> panels are subjected to movement, it certianly is not that to that degree.
> There are also some specialty water base urethane paints which are very
> flexible.
>
> Anyway, my question is, what knowledge is available in the Kitfox
> Brains-Trust that I can tap into on this subject? Info and guidance is
> very welcome, but I can do without a beating. I need my strength to finish
> the 'Fox.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Colin Durey
> Sydney
> +61-418-677073 (M)
> +61-2-945466162 (F)
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
wingnut,
great post. I read all the time where pilots abort the take off when the air speed
indicator is inop. The result is usually a run off the runway and a bent
plane. Generally when I land the plane I go by feel. Very rarely do I look
at the air speed. I make a much better landing when I fly this way, when I watch
the airspeed, the landing is usually not as good.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23444#23444
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
I do have trim in the elevator. I have strut fairings. I will say that my best
rpm is 5200, the speed is great around 100, it is quite, that's the best part.
In fact it worries me a little when I put it up to 5800 and climb, I get vibration,
kind of unnerving, but that's normal also. It's just so smooth and
quite at the lower rpm, that it's now my prefered. So nice and smooth, quite,
stereo a blarin, lots of IFR, wow! what a life.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23446#23446
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
There has been a few times when after takeoff I noticed that the small cover
for my pitot tube was stuck thus not allowing air flow. This is part of my
"Pre-Flight" check list. Flying without any measured form of airspeed will
quickly raise your awarness to the airplane, especially in landing phase.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxmike
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:17 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 (was New Member)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
wingnut,
great post. I read all the time where pilots abort the take off when the
air speed indicator is inop. The result is usually a run off the runway and
a bent plane. Generally when I land the plane I go by feel. Very rarely do
I look at the air speed. I make a much better landing when I fly this way,
when I watch the airspeed, the landing is usually not as good.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23444#23444
############################################################################
####
This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at
SWOCA.
############################################################################
####
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
here is a pic of my IFR
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23451#23451
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ifr_157.jpg
Message 17
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| Subject: | Paints vs Paints |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tim Vader <vadert@telusplanet.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Vader" <vadert@telusplanet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
> Colin
>
> I used a modified Hipec system for coverning my IV. It was very easy.
> I used one heavy coat of sun barrier (alumium powder in a polyurethane
> carrier) then scuff sanded and one coat of a water based one part
> polyurethane "industrial coating". The industrial coating is Imron 1.2 HG
> by Dupont. It gives exceptional wet look gloss and being a polyurethane
> excellent flexibility. No harmful vapors, dries in twenty minutes. I
> painted the plane in my attached garage using just a dust mask for
> protection. The other thing about using this paint is that it covers
> fabric, fiberglass, steel, plastic, anything. You have to get it at
> autobody shops and may be hard to find. I live in Canada and it's not
> available here so I've had to get it out of the states. The entire plane
> was painted with about five gallons of product in total. The Hipec system
> is also designed to work without finish tapes as the sun barrier is a
> tenacious glue. I used some finish tapes on mine for cosmetic reasons. I
> wouldn't hesitate to use this system again and in fact I'm going to use it
> again on the rebuild of my IV after my unfortunate accident.
>
> Tim Vader
> Classic IV 1200
> EA81
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:53 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
>>
>> I'm almost regretting raising this, already, but... as I will soon be
>> facing the job of painting my KF4, I am trying to balance all the
>> cost/benefit/risk/etc/etc factors involved in this part of the project.
>>
>> Everyone talks in glowing terms about Polytone/Polyfibre , and I'm sure
>> that its all correct, however, I have been talking to a number of friends
>> who have long experience in both automotive and industrial
>> paints/coatings
>> and, I asked them specifically about using these types of paints on the
>> Kitfox, and am intrigued by some of the things that they have told me.
>>
>> In connection with automotive paints - with the increase in the number of
>> flexible body panels (especially bumpers), usually made from poly vinyls,
>> various new paints have been compounded to cope with the flex and
>> distortion that these are subjected to, without crazing/cracking. There
>> are also a number of modifiers to add to certain standard acrylics and
>> lacquers to make them flexible and eliminate(?) craking and crazing. I've
>> seen some pretty impressive samples.
>>
>> As to inductrial coatings, there are a number of products which are
>> designed for very flixible substrates, such as the vinyl and fabrics that
>> are used on the sides of Tautliners. These allow for very high gloss and
>> high resolution graphics as well as broad area fills on materials which
>> get rolled up into a spiral on a daily basis. While wings and fuselage
>> panels are subjected to movement, it certianly is not that to that
>> degree.
>> There are also some specialty water base urethane paints which are very
>> flexible.
>>
>> Anyway, my question is, what knowledge is available in the Kitfox
>> Brains-Trust that I can tap into on this subject? Info and guidance is
>> very welcome, but I can do without a beating. I need my strength to
>> finish
>> the 'Fox.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Colin Durey
>> Sydney
>> +61-418-677073 (M)
>> +61-2-945466162 (F)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
Is that Felts Field?
Frank LWS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxmike
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:48 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
here is a pic of my IFR
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23451#23451
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ifr_157.jpg
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
no, a farm house about 15mi south. I'll get a pic of felts when I can and post.
want to see spokane international, here you go.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23466#23466
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/international_189.jpg
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
Excuse me . . .the fifth picture you have posted is no farm house. Must be
GEG?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxmike
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:51 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
no, a farm house about 15mi south. I'll get a pic of felts when I can and
post. want to see spokane international, here you go.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23466#23466
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/international_189.jpg
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Paints vs Paints |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
I personally have a strong opinion and that's to use
only coatings designed and tested to fill and cover
polyester fabric for aviation use.
I've seen too many glossy finished fabric jobs that
turned into cracked and spider-webbed messes within a
few years. Without extensive testing one cannot draw
conclusions about the suitability, durability, or
even flame retardant capabilities of auto finishes on
fabric.
Spending some extra money on proven systems more than
pays for what a new cover job might cost in the
future. Also, from a resale standpoint, use of an
approved aircraft fabric coating system is a benefit.
IMHO...
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
<lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Colin,
>
>You pose an excellent question. I do know that in
the past, auto finishes
>would eventually begin to crack. Also in the old
days the oily film that
>appeared on the inside of the windsheild was the
plasticisers in the vinyl
>dsh cap gassing out. The failure of this item in
the UV of the sun
>encouraged the cottage industry that produces the
protective dash caps. I
>don't know about the more modern finishes, but
would consider this. The
>roll down - roll up curtains are replacabel with the
removal of a couple of
>bolts in the event they fail (or the need for a
graphics change). The same
>can be said for the bumpers etc. The aftermarket
dash caps provided a cheap
>and easily replaced dashboard cover. And with an
automoblile, they become
>throw away items after five or six years. My Model
IV has been flying
>almost six years and I expect the finish to last at
least another six or
>more.
>
>This probably doesn't help much, and is only
presented as food for thought.
>
>Lowell
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:53 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey"
<colin@ptclhk.com>
>>
>> I'm almost regretting raising this, already,
but... as I will soon be
>> facing the job of painting my KF4, I am trying to
balance all the
>> cost/benefit/risk/etc/etc factors involved in this
part of the project.
>>
>> Everyone talks in glowing terms about
Polytone/Polyfibre , and I'm sure
>> that its all correct, however, I have been talking
to a number of friends
>> who have long experience in both automotive and
industrial paints/coatings
>> and, I asked them specifically about using these
types of paints on the
>> Kitfox, and am intrigued by some of the things
that they have told me.
>>
>> In connection with automotive paints - with the
increase in the number of
>> flexible body panels (especially bumpers), usually
made from poly vinyls,
>> various new paints have been compounded to cope
with the flex and
>> distortion that these are subjected to, without
crazing/cracking. There
>> are also a number of modifiers to add to certain
standard acrylics and
>> lacquers to make them flexible and eliminate(?)
craking and crazing. I've
>> seen some pretty impressive samples.
>>
>> As to inductrial coatings, there are a number of
products which are
>> designed for very flixible substrates, such as the
vinyl and fabrics that
>> are used on the sides of Tautliners. These allow
for very high gloss and
>> high resolution graphics as well as broad area
fills on materials which
>> get rolled up into a spiral on a daily basis.
While wings and fuselage
>> panels are subjected to movement, it certianly is
not that to that degree.
>> There are also some specialty water base urethane
paints which are very
>> flexible.
>>
>> Anyway, my question is, what knowledge is
available in the Kitfox
>> Brains-Trust that I can tap into on this subject?
Info and guidance is
>> very welcome, but I can do without a beating. I
need my strength to finish
>> the 'Fox.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Colin Durey
>> Sydney
>> +61-418-677073 (M)
>> +61-2-945466162 (F)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
======================================================
======
Admin.
>_-
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>
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
I'm new to this posting stuff, trying to see the fifth pic
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23474#23474
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
If you are writing about the pics on the frapper. the fifth pic is fairchild AFB.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23477#23477
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: VNE on a mod 4 1200 and high speeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
I think I know whats going on, I'm posting on the BBS forum interface and my attatchments
are being shown on that forum and maybe not on the regular list.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23479#23479
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | 912 needle valves |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Kaufjm@aol.com
I have the red tipped needle valves and I can see a slight ring, close to
the tip. I do have venting at low RPM. I was told once that if you can see the
ring that you should replace the needle valve.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Add bicycle spokes to your list for needles. Make
them like Dee says.
Kurt S.
--- Dee Young <henrysfork1@msn.com> wrote:
> The "loose nut holding onto the stick" used gas
> welding rod shaped and drilled. It takes about 5
> minutes to make one needle. The "loose nut holding
> the stick" made 3 different sizes which seem to fill
> the bill. Hope this helps as I too run on a limited
> budget.
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
> N345DY
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I did this also, but used coat hangar wire. I found that the needles that
are made for the job are hardened and I liked to bend the needle for
getting around stuff in the wing. I just sharpend one end and flattened the
other end and drilled it.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
> The "loose nut holding onto the stick" used gas welding rod shaped and
> drilled. It takes about 5 minutes to make one needle. The "loose nut
> holding the stick" made 3 different sizes which seem to fill the bill.
> Hope this helps as I too run on a limited budget.
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
> N345DY
>
> Do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Graeme Toft<mailto:msm@byterocky.net>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft"
> <msm@byterocky.net<mailto:msm@byterocky.net>>
>
> Is there any type of material that can be substituted safely for aircraft
> type rib stitching. I just priced a role from Polyfiber and have been
> quoted
> $64 for the thread and $25 for the needle. The role comes in one size
> with
> sufficient length to rib stitch the worlds entire kitfox fleet. Has
> anyone
> used anything else succesfully? I know, Im starting to penny pinch but Im
> into my last piggy bank.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme -----
>
> Original Message -----
> From: "Alan & Linda Daniels"
> <aldaniels@fmtc.com<mailto:aldaniels@fmtc.com>>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels
> > <aldaniels@fmtc.com<mailto:aldaniels@fmtc.com>>
> >
> > Rib stitching, riveting, and gluing are all good. I have nothing
> against
> > any of them, but just so some don't get overly afraid that their wing
> > fabric is going to come off in flight consider the strength of modern
> > fabric and glue. I think medium fabric will hold something like 130
> > pounds per square inch, were cotton was something like 15. If you use
> > proper procedures and follow the manufactures recommendations you WILL
> > NOT loose the fabric off the wing no matter what you do. You may rip
> the
> > wing off, but the fabric will still be on it. With 144 sq. inches in a
> > sq. foot times 132 sq. feet times 130 pounds per inch equals something
> > just short of 2.5 millions pounds on the wing fabric. Yes I know that
> > requires even load, full support each inch and all, but the point is
> > fabric is darn strong. With proper overlaps and procedures, and the
> > fabric held in tension against the wing structure it is not the weak
> > point. With no in-flight failures I am not sure what the weak point is
> > as no one has found it, except maybe the loose nut holding onto the
> > stick. Good attaching to the ribs helps keep fabric in the proper shape
> > during lift, but its not coming off.
> >
> > Dee Young wrote:
> >
> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young"
> <henrysfork1@msn.com<mailto:henrysfork1@msn.com>>
> >>
> >>I rib stitched and am very glad I did. Of all the things I can worry
> about
> >>when off the ground - the fabric coming lose isn't one of them. Not
> ever.
> >>It was a lot of fun to do, it was educational and looks very
> traditional.
> >>
> >>Dee Young
> >>Model II
> >>
> >>Do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Attitude Gyro (falkonguage) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I bought a non TSOed turn coordinator from ACS and it died twice.
Fortunately it was always under warranty. The last time I called, I asked
if it was even worth the effort. The nice lady on the phone said, "Let me
tell you how to fix it." She then proceeded to tell me how to polish the
armature on the motor. I polished it with emery cloth and it has been
working for three years. It failed twice always within 6 months. An
Attitude gyro is a bit more complicated, but it doesn't take much to make
them just lay there.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "jareds" <jareds@verizon.net>
<kitfox-list@matronics.com>; "wandbvw" <wandbvw@bektel.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:34 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Attitude Gyro (falkonguage)
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
>
> 65 hours ago i had purchased a brand new falconguage electric attitude
> gyro. Just out of warrenty so falcon SAYS return and we'll send out a
> re mfr for $300.
> Unfortunately when they get it they decide over $800 later they'll quit
> holding it hostage.
> When i ask specifically what is wrong with it the emails are ignored.
>
> Anyone had luck with an extremely in expensive electric or have seen any
> good ads?
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Paints vs Paints |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Steve Wittman perished when his automotive paint and aeromotive fabric chose to
fly in "loose formation" with the rest of the aircraft.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier"
>
> I personally have a strong opinion and that's to use
> only coatings designed and tested to fill and cover
> polyester fabric for aviation use.
>
> I've seen too many glossy finished fabric jobs that
> turned into cracked and spider-webbed messes within a
> few years. Without extensive testing one cannot draw
> conclusions about the suitability, durability, or
> even flame retardant capabilities of auto finishes on
> fabric.
>
> Spending some extra money on proven systems more than
> pays for what a new cover job might cost in the
> future. Also, from a resale standpoint, use of an
> approved aircraft fabric coating system is a benefit.
>
> IMHO...
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> From: "Lowell Fitt"
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>
> >
> >Colin,
> >
> >You pose an excellent question. I do know that in
> the past, auto finishes
> >would eventually begin to crack. Also in the old
> days the oily film that
> >appeared on the inside of the windsheild was the
> plasticisers in the vinyl
> >dsh cap gassing out. The failure of this item in
> the UV of the sun
> >encouraged the cottage industry that produces the
> protective dash caps. I
> >don't know about the more modern finishes, but
> would consider this. The
> >roll down - roll up curtains are replacabel with the
> removal of a couple of
> >bolts in the event they fail (or the need for a
> graphics change). The same
> >can be said for the bumpers etc. The aftermarket
> dash caps provided a cheap
> >and easily replaced dashboard cover. And with an
> automoblile, they become
> >throw away items after five or six years. My Model
> IV has been flying
> >almost six years and I expect the finish to last at
> least another six or
> >more.
> >
> >This probably doesn't help much, and is only
> presented as food for thought.
> >
> >Lowell
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Colin Durey"
> >To:
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:53 AM
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey"
>
> >>
> >> I'm almost regretting raising this, already,
> but... as I will soon be
> >> facing the job of painting my KF4, I am trying to
> balance all the
> >> cost/benefit/risk/etc/etc factors involved in this
> part of the project.
> >>
> >> Everyone talks in glowing terms about
> Polytone/Polyfibre , and I'm sure
> >> that its all correct, however, I have been talking
> to a number of friends
> >> who have long experience in both automotive and
> industrial paints/coatings
> >> and, I asked them specifically about using these
> types of paints on the
> >> Kitfox, and am intrigued by some of the things
> that they have told me.
> >>
> >> In connection with automotive paints - with the
> increase in the number of
> >> flexible body panels (especially bumpers), usually
> made from poly vinyls,
> >> various new paints have been compounded to cope
> with the flex and
> >> distortion that these are subjected to, without
> crazing/cracking. There
> >> are also a number of modifiers to add to certain
> standard acrylics and
> >> lacquers to make them flexible and eliminate(?)
> craking and crazing. I've
> >> seen some pretty impressive samples.
> >>
> >> As to inductrial coatings, there are a number of
> products which are
> >> designed for very flixible substrates, such as the
> vinyl and fabrics that
> >> are used on the sides of Tautliners. These allow
> for very high gloss and
> >> high resolution graphics as well as broad area
> fills on materials which
> >> get rolled up into a spiral on a daily basis.
> While wings and fuselage
> >> panels are subjected to movement, it certianly is
> not that to that degree.
> >> There are also some specialty water base urethane
> paints which are very
> >> flexible.
> >>
> >> Anyway, my question is, what knowledge is
> available in the Kitfox
> >> Brains-Trust that I can tap into on this subject?
> Info and guidance is
> >> very welcome, but I can do without a beating. I
> need my strength to finish
> >> the 'Fox.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Colin Durey
> >> Sydney
> >> +61-418-677073 (M)
> >> +61-2-945466162 (F)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ======
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> List
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ======
> Admin.
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ======
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Steve Wittman perished when his automotive paint and aeromotive fabric chose to
fly in "loose formation" with the rest of the aircraft.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "flier" FLIER@sbcglobal.net
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
I personally have a strong opinion and that's to use
only coatings designed and tested to fill and cover
polyester fabric for aviation use.
I've seen too many glossy finished fabric jobs that
turned into cracked and spider-webbed messes within a
few years. Without extensive testing one cannot draw
conclusions about the suitability, durability, or
even flame retardant capabilities of auto finishes on
fabric.
Spending some extra money on proven systems more than
pays for what a new cover job might cost in the
future. Also, from a resale standpoint, use of an
approved aircraft fabr
ic coating system is a benefit.
IMHO...
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Lowell Fitt" <LCFITT@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
To: <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
<LCFITT@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Colin,
You pose an excellent question. I do know that in
the past, auto finishes
would eventually begin to crack. Also in the old
days the oily film that
appeared on the inside of the windsheild was the
plasticisers in the vinyl
dsh cap gassing out. The failure of this item in
the UV of the sun
encouraged the cottage industry that produces the
protective dash caps. I
don't know about the more modern finishes, but <
BR> would consider this. The
roll down - roll up curtains are replacabel with the
removal of a couple of
bolts in the event they fail (or the need for a
graphics change). The same
can be said for the bumpers etc. The aftermarket
dash caps provided a cheap
and easily replaced dashboard cover. And with an
automoblile, they become
throw away items after five or six years. My Model
IV has been flying
almost six years and I expect the finish to last at
least another six or
more.
This probably doesn't help much, and is only
presented as food for thought.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Durey" <COLIN@PTCLHK.COM>
To: <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:53 AM
&g
t;Subject: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey"
<COLIN@PTCLHK.COM>
I'm almost regretting raising this, already,
but... as I will soon be
facing the job of painting my KF4, I am trying to
balance all the
cost/benefit/risk/etc/etc factors involved in this
part of the project.
Everyone talks in glowing terms about
Polytone/Polyfibre , and I'm sure
that its all correct, however, I have been talking
to a number of friends
who have long experience in both automotive and
industrial paints/coatings
and, I asked them specifically about using these
types of paints on the
Kitfox, and am intrigued by some of the things
that they have told me.
In connection with automotive paints - with the
increase in the number of
flexible body panels (especially bumpers), usually
made from poly vinyls,
various new paints have been compounded to cope
with the flex and
distortion that these are subjected to, without
crazing/cracking. There
are also a number of modifiers to add to certain
standard acrylics and
lacquers to make them flexible and eliminate(?)
craking and crazing. I've
seen some pretty impressive samples.
As to inductrial coatings, there are a number of
products which are
designed for very flixible substrates, such as the
vinyl and fabrics that
are used on the sides of Tautliners. These allow
for very high gloss and
high resolution graphics as well as broad area
fills on materials which
get rolled up into a spiral on a daily basis.
While wings and fuselage
panels are subjected to movement, it certianly is
not that to that degree.
There are also some specialty water base urethane
paints which are very
flexible.
Anyway, my question is, what knowledge is
available in the Kitfox
Brains-Trust that I can tap into on this subject?
Info and guidance is
very welcome, but I can do without a beating. I
need my strength to finish
the 'Fox.
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney
+61-418-677073 (M)
+61-2-945466162 (F)
_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
_-
======================================================
======
Admin.
_-
======================================================
======
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Graeme,
Just a thought. Although expensive, I have used the riblace cord for
numerous things besides riblacing. I have found that it is an excellent
cord for tieing wire bundles and have used it extensively for that. Not KF
related, but it is great for whipping the ends of rope - lines, as Michel
would probably prefer. I have found it to pretty handy stuff to have
around.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
> Is there any type of material that can be substituted safely for aircraft
> type rib stitching. I just priced a role from Polyfiber and have been
> quoted
> $64 for the thread and $25 for the needle. The role comes in one size with
> sufficient length to rib stitch the worlds entire kitfox fleet. Has anyone
> used anything else succesfully? I know, Im starting to penny pinch but Im
> into my last piggy bank.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme -----
>
> Original Message -----
> From: "Alan & Linda Daniels" <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels
>> <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>>
>> Rib stitching, riveting, and gluing are all good. I have nothing against
>> any of them, but just so some don't get overly afraid that their wing
>> fabric is going to come off in flight consider the strength of modern
>> fabric and glue. I think medium fabric will hold something like 130
>> pounds per square inch, were cotton was something like 15. If you use
>> proper procedures and follow the manufactures recommendations you WILL
>> NOT loose the fabric off the wing no matter what you do. You may rip the
>> wing off, but the fabric will still be on it. With 144 sq. inches in a
>> sq. foot times 132 sq. feet times 130 pounds per inch equals something
>> just short of 2.5 millions pounds on the wing fabric. Yes I know that
>> requires even load, full support each inch and all, but the point is
>> fabric is darn strong. With proper overlaps and procedures, and the
>> fabric held in tension against the wing structure it is not the weak
>> point. With no in-flight failures I am not sure what the weak point is
>> as no one has found it, except maybe the loose nut holding onto the
>> stick. Good attaching to the ribs helps keep fabric in the proper shape
>> during lift, but its not coming off.
>>
>> Dee Young wrote:
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>>>
>>>I rib stitched and am very glad I did. Of all the things I can worry
>>>about
>>>when off the ground - the fabric coming lose isn't one of them. Not ever.
>>>It was a lot of fun to do, it was educational and looks very traditional.
>>>
>>>Dee Young
>>>Model II
>>>
>>>Do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Soob cooling (was It Flew! Cooling) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
I should have explained more. Net is being wiped out
by thunderstorms here in S. America, so I kept it
short.
I was measuring the air temp out of the oil cooler and
comparing it to the OAT, which should be about the
same as inlet air. I wasnt comparing the Delta T of
the oil, just air. Havent tried oil temp drop yet.
My interest was to use the oil cooler as a cabin
heater by diverting the exit air and save the weight
of the cabin heater. (The oil cooler airflow is
seperate from engine air on my plane.) What I got was
only a 10 degree rise in air temps, which lead me to
believe I have plenty of airflow - maybe too much -
and not much cabin heating.
I agree with adding the thermostat bypass. I was
flying it in 60s temps last fall and the oil and
coolant were only 160 to 140 F in cruise. Had to
change the oil after that cross country, due to not
boiling off the water. It creamed a bit.
My temps go up rapidly and directly with OAT though.
90s OAT temps will raise oil and coolant by at least
30 degrees over 60s OAT. In cruise that is OK, but I
get too hot in taxi and in takeoff/climb. I intend to
address this with a variable exit. I have added a
fixed enlarged exit already to experiment with it.
Positive results, but draggy. Also like that new
waterless coolant....
Like John A., I had a moment of enlightenment when I
first ran the engine and found the oil cooler cold.
Reversing the lines to the oil filter cured that
one.... Grrrr Wish I built this before I needed
glasses.
I found that moving my cooler to the cowl outlet had
some unintended consequences. While it saved weight,
I had inadvertently reduced the cooling to my GB.
Also it reduced the airflow to the oil cooler more
than expected because I used the smiley face instead
of the higher origional inlet. That is how I learned
of the smiley face air pressure problem.
My peak oil temps for all flights have been 240, that
I remember. I tend to reduce power when it gets over
225. My coolant got above 240 on one very short
flight. :-( I shoot for 215 max coolant temp.
Kurt S.
--- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
> Humm, you mean from the inlet not OAT? The OAT is
> not the starting
> point. It would be the oil temperature drop from the
> oil inlet to outlet
> side. The air is being heated by the oil but has no
> relation to what the
> drop in oil temp is across the cooler. No doubt
> there is a rise on both
> ends. One thing I would recommend in an oil
> thermostat like the one I
> installed from Mocal. But like all things open to
> another's perspective.
> Mine worked very well and regulated oil temp great.
> I think more
> important than the size of the cooler is its
> placement for air flow.
> Going back, I am not saying the OAT is not relative
> but for what your
> looking for not so much now. What is you full power
> climb peak oil temp and cruise oil temp?
>
> Rick
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Steve Wittman crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
I believe there was more to his crash than type of paint, but I don't
remember the details. I will look for the report on it.
kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>
>Steve Wittman perished when his automotive paint and aeromotive fabric chose to
fly in "loose formation" with the rest of the aircraft.
>
>
>
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Paints vs Paints |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Hi Colin, I used 2 pack automotive paint on my KF 1 and although it went on
well and looked great it didnt take long to start cracking around where hard
points met with flexible surfaces. I used a plasticiser that was recommended
but still ended up having problems. My 1V has Polyfiber paint and it has an
almost rubbery feel but just to see how good it was when I stripped the
fabric from the wings, I folded it and rubbed each surface like crazy in an
attempt to get it to peel. After about 15 minutes it was still in place so
that was proof positive to me to use it again. Its bloody expensive as you
have no doubt discovered but it going to last a long time and will possibly
save a lot of grief in the future. I have been told that Polyfiber in
Melbourne is probably the most expensive outlet. I just received a quote of
$1850 for materials. (wings only). Freight on dangerous goods is prohibitive
so check around Sydney. Ceconite is also a cheaper option but I know nothing
about its application or durability in comparison to Polyfiber. Aviaquip did
tell me however that Skyfox used a blend of automotive and Polyfiber paint
for a reasonable result.
Cheers
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:53 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
>
> I'm almost regretting raising this, already, but... as I will soon be
> facing the job of painting my KF4, I am trying to balance all the
> cost/benefit/risk/etc/etc factors involved in this part of the project.
>
> Everyone talks in glowing terms about Polytone/Polyfibre , and I'm sure
> that its all correct, however, I have been talking to a number of friends
> who have long experience in both automotive and industrial paints/coatings
> and, I asked them specifically about using these types of paints on the
> Kitfox, and am intrigued by some of the things that they have told me.
>
> In connection with automotive paints - with the increase in the number of
> flexible body panels (especially bumpers), usually made from poly vinyls,
> various new paints have been compounded to cope with the flex and
> distortion that these are subjected to, without crazing/cracking. There
> are also a number of modifiers to add to certain standard acrylics and
> lacquers to make them flexible and eliminate(?) craking and crazing. I've
> seen some pretty impressive samples.
>
> As to inductrial coatings, there are a number of products which are
> designed for very flixible substrates, such as the vinyl and fabrics that
> are used on the sides of Tautliners. These allow for very high gloss and
> high resolution graphics as well as broad area fills on materials which
> get rolled up into a spiral on a daily basis. While wings and fuselage
> panels are subjected to movement, it certianly is not that to that degree.
> There are also some specialty water base urethane paints which are very
> flexible.
>
> Anyway, my question is, what knowledge is available in the Kitfox
> Brains-Trust that I can tap into on this subject? Info and guidance is
> very welcome, but I can do without a beating. I need my strength to finish
> the 'Fox.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Colin Durey
> Sydney
> +61-418-677073 (M)
> +61-2-945466162 (F)
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Paints vs Paints |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
I used ICI Imron on my plane, it's used for bumpers etc on cars and use on
our helicopters for years with very good results - and that's saying
something with all the shaking that goes on at times. Time will tell but
it's been painted 3 years (my plane) and no sign of cracking yet but of
course only done a few flights..
From: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Hi Colin, I used 2 pack automotive paint on my KF 1 and although it went on
well and looked great it didnt take long to start cracking around where hard
points met with flexible surfaces. I used a plasticiser that was recommended
but still ended up having problems. My 1V has Polyfiber paint and it has an
almost rubbery feel but just to see how good it was when I stripped the
fabric from the wings, I folded it and rubbed each surface like crazy in an
attempt to get it to peel. After about 15 minutes it was still in place so
that was proof positive to me to use it again. Its bloody expensive as you
have no doubt discovered but it going to last a long time and will possibly
save a lot of grief in the future. I have been told that Polyfiber in
Melbourne is probably the most expensive outlet. I just received a quote of
$1850 for materials. (wings only). Freight on dangerous goods is prohibitive
so check around Sydney. Ceconite is also a cheaper option but I know nothing
about its application or durability in comparison to Polyfiber. Aviaquip did
tell me however that Skyfox used a blend of automotive and Polyfiber paint
for a reasonable result.
Cheers
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:53 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Paints vs Paints
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
>
>I'm almost regretting raising this, already, but... as I will soon be
>facing the job of painting my KF4, I am trying to balance all the
>cost/benefit/risk/etc/etc factors involved in this part of the project.
>
>Everyone talks in glowing terms about Polytone/Polyfibre , and I'm sure
>that its all correct, however, I have been talking to a number of friends
>who have long experience in both automotive and industrial paints/coatings
>and, I asked them specifically about using these types of paints on the
>Kitfox, and am intrigued by some of the things that they have told me.
>
>In connection with automotive paints - with the increase in the number of
>flexible body panels (especially bumpers), usually made from poly vinyls,
>various new paints have been compounded to cope with the flex and
>distortion that these are subjected to, without crazing/cracking. There
>are also a number of modifiers to add to certain standard acrylics and
>lacquers to make them flexible and eliminate(?) craking and crazing. I've
>seen some pretty impressive samples.
>
>As to inductrial coatings, there are a number of products which are
>designed for very flixible substrates, such as the vinyl and fabrics that
>are used on the sides of Tautliners. These allow for very high gloss and
>high resolution graphics as well as broad area fills on materials which
>get rolled up into a spiral on a daily basis. While wings and fuselage
>panels are subjected to movement, it certianly is not that to that degree.
>There are also some specialty water base urethane paints which are very
>flexible.
>
>Anyway, my question is, what knowledge is available in the Kitfox
>Brains-Trust that I can tap into on this subject? Info and guidance is
>very welcome, but I can do without a beating. I need my strength to finish
>the 'Fox.
>
>
>Regards
>
>Colin Durey
>Sydney
>+61-418-677073 (M)
>+61-2-945466162 (F)
>
>
>--
>
>
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Steve Wittman crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
Alan & Linda,
I am not positive but I seem to remember the failure of Steve's fabric was
due to him using dacron fabric with a dope method of gluing such that would
be used on Irish linen, or some thing like that. If I remember correctly the
finish was about 10 years old when it failed.
Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan & Linda Daniels" <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:46 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Steve Wittman crash
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels
> <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>
> I believe there was more to his crash than type of paint, but I don't
> remember the details. I will look for the report on it.
>
> kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>>
>>Steve Wittman perished when his automotive paint and aeromotive fabric
>>chose to fly in "loose formation" with the rest of the aircraft.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
No, just ground adjusable Rick. You wrote? (Just am aside you should be able
to run LOP with that injector set up which will save you some fuel, besides
the Subaru likes lean anyway.)?? Not sure what you mean here? And with EFI,
if the engine quits the fuel will stop as the signal wil be gone, right?
John A.
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am not sure then John. The EA-82 is a bit different. Depending on
turbo size the 5 PSI boost may be right for the RPMs your turning. The
Turbo EA-81 torque band is between 3800 and 4200. So in cruise I would
suspect you should be fine. I wouldn't lug the engine on take off 5200
for best not most power, but also no need with that engine to run 6200
for most power either. AS you know there are a lot of variables to
consider when you have a turbo. Do you have an in-flight adjustable
prop? Just am aside you should be able to run LOP with that injector set
up which will save you some fuel, besides the Subaru likes lean anyway.
Another aside. Should for some reason you engine quite suddenly and it
didn't blow up. I would pull the fuel immediately then try restart. If
you don't there is a good chance the turbo will continue to spool and
pull fuel into the cylinders and wet them severely enough that a restart
might not happen. OK, old here, never mind you are hi teck injected
engine not crab or Ellison.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
My plan to measure the delta T once I get cooling sorted, you'll see my
note
to Kurt re the rad. Sea level and I have an EA82 turbo, the idea being
it
would not be getting it neck rung out at the higher revs compared the
automotive use. But from how the engine is going and power available, I
thing I'd prob be cruising around 4k or a little higher, not 5 like the
normall aspirated chaps seem to be. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am not sure what altitude you are stating from, but if you are using
stock turbo pistons you should be at about 7PSI boost at sea level. The
stock pot is set to that. Again depends on RPM for gas flow to spin the
turbine. If your RPM is at 5200 or higher you should be showing 7PSI.
What turbo are you using? Infact with the fuel injection and intercooler
I would expect you could easily adjust up to 12PSI with no problems. But
if your not getting red of the heat your making, little sense in that. I
found the larger turbo model aluminum radiator provided by NSI to be
adequate for cooling, but its placement was critical for getting enough
air flow on the ground and at high AOA on full power climbs. I think you
have an excellent start with the design you have. May need more aft
radiator cowl work and design, possibly a ground or climb cooling fan.
Let me know if you have any specific questions. So many ways to skin a
cat. Do you have a way to measure your intake temps or the delta across
the intercooler?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Rick, yes you MUST miss your toy. I'm so impressed how well my
bird flies, smooth and controls feel as good as a Beaver... I've only
done 6 circs so far so not tested much in the cruise yet. About to have
another fly today. Oil temp seems good, the engine is pulling around
5psi of boost, is that compatable with what yours used to do? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
Just beautiful. Wish I was still modifying things myself. I am just
wondering if you cooling problems are in cruise or full power climb out?
Rick,
former model 5 driver :)
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Become a fitness fanatic @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/health
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Steve Wittman crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
Maybe I am wrong but I was under the impression that there was no silver UV
protector (Polyspray) under the top coat and the fabric deteriorated because of
UV degradation.
Eric Ashman, Atlanta
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Steve Wittman crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
This is the response I got from the EAA.
Alan,
It's our understanding that the fabric on the top of the wing directly ahead of
the aileron detached and ballooned up. This upset the airflow over the aileron,
causing a violent flutter leading to in-flight breakup of the aircraft. It
was determined that Steve had mixed two different fabric covering processes
when covering the airplane, which led to a breakdown of adhesion of the fabric
to the wing, which resulted in the separation and ballooning.
Hope this helps!
Joe Norris
EAA Aviation Services
EAA Aviation Center, Oshkosh, WI
888-322-4636, extension 6806
jnorris@eaa.org
Alan & Linda Daniels wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>
>I believe there was more to his crash than type of paint, but I don't
>remember the details. I will look for the report on it.
>
>kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>>
>>Steve Wittman perished when his automotive paint and aeromotive fabric chose
to fly in "loose formation" with the rest of the aircraft.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Yep, I think if had had a EFI I would still be flying. LOP is lean of
peak. If your not familiar with it you might want to do your own
research and come to your on opinion. There is much controversy. But if
it was good enough for war time when it all counted on getting there and
home I think it has many advantages even beyond fuel savings.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
No, just ground adjusable Rick. You wrote? (Just am aside you should be
able
to run LOP with that injector set up which will save you some fuel,
besides
the Subaru likes lean anyway.)?? Not sure what you mean here? And with
EFI,
if the engine quits the fuel will stop as the signal wil be gone, right?
John A.
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am not sure then John. The EA-82 is a bit different. Depending on
turbo size the 5 PSI boost may be right for the RPMs your turning. The
Turbo EA-81 torque band is between 3800 and 4200. So in cruise I would
suspect you should be fine. I wouldn't lug the engine on take off 5200
for best not most power, but also no need with that engine to run 6200
for most power either. AS you know there are a lot of variables to
consider when you have a turbo. Do you have an in-flight adjustable
prop? Just am aside you should be able to run LOP with that injector set
up which will save you some fuel, besides the Subaru likes lean anyway.
Another aside. Should for some reason you engine quite suddenly and it
didn't blow up. I would pull the fuel immediately then try restart. If
you don't there is a good chance the turbo will continue to spool and
pull fuel into the cylinders and wet them severely enough that a restart
might not happen. OK, old here, never mind you are hi teck injected
engine not crab or Ellison.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
My plan to measure the delta T once I get cooling sorted, you'll see my
note to Kurt re the rad. Sea level and I have an EA82 turbo, the idea
being it would not be getting it neck rung out at the higher revs
compared the automotive use. But from how the engine is going and power
available, I thing I'd prob be cruising around 4k or a little higher,
not 5 like the normall aspirated chaps seem to be. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am not sure what altitude you are stating from, but if you are using
stock turbo pistons you should be at about 7PSI boost at sea level. The
stock pot is set to that. Again depends on RPM for gas flow to spin the
turbine. If your RPM is at 5200 or higher you should be showing 7PSI.
What turbo are you using? Infact with the fuel injection and intercooler
I would expect you could easily adjust up to 12PSI with no problems. But
if your not getting red of the heat your making, little sense in that. I
found the larger turbo model aluminum radiator provided by NSI to be
adequate for cooling, but its placement was critical for getting enough
air flow on the ground and at high AOA on full power climbs. I think you
have an excellent start with the design you have. May need more aft
radiator cowl work and design, possibly a ground or climb cooling fan.
Let me know if you have any specific questions. So many ways to skin a
cat. Do you have a way to measure your intake temps or the delta across
the intercooler?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Rick, yes you MUST miss your toy. I'm so impressed how well my
bird flies, smooth and controls feel as good as a Beaver... I've only
done 6 circs so far so not tested much in the cruise yet. About to have
another fly today. Oil temp seems good, the engine is pulling around
5psi of boost, is that compatable with what yours used to do? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
Just beautiful. Wish I was still modifying things myself. I am just
wondering if you cooling problems are in cruise or full power climb out?
Rick,
former model 5 driver :)
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Become a fitness fanatic @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/health
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Paints vs Paints |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
>>Steve Wittman perished when his automotive paint and aeromotive fabric
chose to fly in >>"loose formation" with the rest of the aircraft.
What is "aeromotive fabric"?
I do know that automobile paint is used very successfully on fabric covered
aircraft.
Though, I would not suggest to use lacquer even if it were plasticized with
flex additives. But these days it is rather difficult to find lacquer, people
are moving or have moved to Urethane coatings in the car repair business. If
you are using an automobile urethane make sure it is a polyurethane or an
acrylic urethane and not a converted alkyd such as acrylic enamel. These are the
coatings that will provide ring cracks like a spider web after some time even
though you add the flex additives.
I used a car repair paint on my IV and have had no problem and will not have
a problem because the flex additive used will not leach out (evaporate) and
render the coating inflexible.
The trouble with all of this is that if you are a even a little skeptical
about using "the unknown" go directly to the Polyfiber folks and put your mind
at
rest.
The main thing is that you use the silver Polyspray before you consider any
type of top coat system
Eric Ashman, Atlanta
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Steve Wittman crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Mr Whitman attached the fabric to the plywood skin of the wing by
painting through the fabric with dope. This works on cotton or linen
where the fibers absorb part of the dope and the adhesion is very good.
With dacron the fibers have to be encapsulated as they will not absorb
the glue and just painting through the fabric will not do a proper
job. Dacron needs to be placed in a bed of glue. The glue can be dry
and reactivated with acetone or MEK and the fabric worked into the bed
and then painted over or it can be laid into a bed of wet glue. The
fabric on the O&O Special came loose on top of the wing and resulted in
a crash. I believe he was a young 91 at the time. May have been the
best way for him to go.
Jerry Liles
Alan & Linda Daniels wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>
>I believe there was more to his crash than type of paint, but I don't
>remember the details. I will look for the report on it.
>
>kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>>
>>Steve Wittman perished when his automotive paint and aeromotive fabric chose
to fly in "loose formation" with the rest of the aircraft.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
I threw a couple of pics on sportflight of the exit area.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1143081145
Albert Smith
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Is that the NSI radiator Albert?
From: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
I threw a couple of pics on sportflight of the exit area.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1143081145
Albert Smith
Need a new job? Check out XtraMSN Careers http://xtramsn.co.nz/careers
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
My EFI is lap top reprogramable with an LED readout in the c/pit so I have
it all set to read green, nice for dummys...
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Yep, I think if had had a EFI I would still be flying. LOP is lean of
peak. If your not familiar with it you might want to do your own
research and come to your on opinion. There is much controversy. But if
it was good enough for war time when it all counted on getting there and
home I think it has many advantages even beyond fuel savings.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
No, just ground adjusable Rick. You wrote? (Just am aside you should be
able
to run LOP with that injector set up which will save you some fuel,
besides
the Subaru likes lean anyway.)?? Not sure what you mean here? And with
EFI,
if the engine quits the fuel will stop as the signal wil be gone, right?
John A.
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am not sure then John. The EA-82 is a bit different. Depending on
turbo size the 5 PSI boost may be right for the RPMs your turning. The
Turbo EA-81 torque band is between 3800 and 4200. So in cruise I would
suspect you should be fine. I wouldn't lug the engine on take off 5200
for best not most power, but also no need with that engine to run 6200
for most power either. AS you know there are a lot of variables to
consider when you have a turbo. Do you have an in-flight adjustable
prop? Just am aside you should be able to run LOP with that injector set
up which will save you some fuel, besides the Subaru likes lean anyway.
Another aside. Should for some reason you engine quite suddenly and it
didn't blow up. I would pull the fuel immediately then try restart. If
you don't there is a good chance the turbo will continue to spool and
pull fuel into the cylinders and wet them severely enough that a restart
might not happen. OK, old here, never mind you are hi teck injected
engine not crab or Ellison.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
My plan to measure the delta T once I get cooling sorted, you'll see my
note to Kurt re the rad. Sea level and I have an EA82 turbo, the idea
being it would not be getting it neck rung out at the higher revs
compared the automotive use. But from how the engine is going and power
available, I thing I'd prob be cruising around 4k or a little higher,
not 5 like the normall aspirated chaps seem to be. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I am not sure what altitude you are stating from, but if you are using
stock turbo pistons you should be at about 7PSI boost at sea level. The
stock pot is set to that. Again depends on RPM for gas flow to spin the
turbine. If your RPM is at 5200 or higher you should be showing 7PSI.
What turbo are you using? Infact with the fuel injection and intercooler
I would expect you could easily adjust up to 12PSI with no problems. But
if your not getting red of the heat your making, little sense in that. I
found the larger turbo model aluminum radiator provided by NSI to be
adequate for cooling, but its placement was critical for getting enough
air flow on the ground and at high AOA on full power climbs. I think you
have an excellent start with the design you have. May need more aft
radiator cowl work and design, possibly a ground or climb cooling fan.
Let me know if you have any specific questions. So many ways to skin a
cat. Do you have a way to measure your intake temps or the delta across
the intercooler?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Rick, yes you MUST miss your toy. I'm so impressed how well my
bird flies, smooth and controls feel as good as a Beaver... I've only
done 6 circs so far so not tested much in the cruise yet. About to have
another fly today. Oil temp seems good, the engine is pulling around
5psi of boost, is that compatable with what yours used to do? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
Just beautiful. Wish I was still modifying things myself. I am just
wondering if you cooling problems are in cruise or full power climb out?
Rick,
former model 5 driver :)
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
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Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Graeme I did what it sounds like some of the newer foxes are doing. $10.00
I glued as if no stiches, but then applied 1" tapes over the ribs and used
stainless steel STANLEY T50 staples found at my hardware store shot through
a hand operated staple gun. 2" tape over that and it turned out real nice.
The staples needed an occasional extra tap with a light drift to set, but
caused no damage to the ribs or fabric as the PK screws had done. PS
Thought of you as I fllew low over the pacific in my Avid the other day.
OK flame on guys. Ron NB Ore N541KF MK IV Speedster VW Redrive
do not archive
>From: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:44:11 +1000
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
>Is there any type of material that can be substituted safely for aircraft
>type rib stitching. I just priced a role from Polyfiber and have been
>quoted
>$64 for the thread and $25 for the needle. The role comes in one size with
>sufficient length to rib stitch the worlds entire kitfox fleet. Has anyone
>used anything else succesfully? I know, Im starting to penny pinch but Im
>into my last piggy bank.
>
>Cheers
>Graeme -----
>
>Original Message -----
>From: "Alan & Linda Daniels" <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:04 PM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels
> > <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
> >
> > Rib stitching, riveting, and gluing are all good. I have nothing against
> > any of them, but just so some don't get overly afraid that their wing
> > fabric is going to come off in flight consider the strength of modern
> > fabric and glue. I think medium fabric will hold something like 130
> > pounds per square inch, were cotton was something like 15. If you use
> > proper procedures and follow the manufactures recommendations you WILL
> > NOT loose the fabric off the wing no matter what you do. You may rip the
> > wing off, but the fabric will still be on it. With 144 sq. inches in a
> > sq. foot times 132 sq. feet times 130 pounds per inch equals something
> > just short of 2.5 millions pounds on the wing fabric. Yes I know that
> > requires even load, full support each inch and all, but the point is
> > fabric is darn strong. With proper overlaps and procedures, and the
> > fabric held in tension against the wing structure it is not the weak
> > point. With no in-flight failures I am not sure what the weak point is
> > as no one has found it, except maybe the loose nut holding onto the
> > stick. Good attaching to the ribs helps keep fabric in the proper shape
> > during lift, but its not coming off.
> >
> > Dee Young wrote:
> >
> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
> >>
> >>I rib stitched and am very glad I did. Of all the things I can worry
>about
> >>when off the ground - the fabric coming lose isn't one of them. Not
>ever.
> >>It was a lot of fun to do, it was educational and looks very
>traditional.
> >>
> >>Dee Young
> >>Model II
> >>
> >>Do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Rib stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Thanks Ron and everyone else for your input on this subject.
Cheers
Graeme
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick"
> <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
>
> Graeme I did what it sounds like some of the newer foxes are doing. $10.00
> I glued as if no stiches, but then applied 1" tapes over the ribs and used
> stainless steel STANLEY T50 staples found at my hardware store shot
> through
> a hand operated staple gun. 2" tape over that and it turned out real
> nice.
> The staples needed an occasional extra tap with a light drift to set,
> but
> caused no damage to the ribs or fabric as the PK screws had done. PS
> Thought of you as I fllew low over the pacific in my Avid the other day.
> OK flame on guys. Ron NB Ore N541KF MK IV Speedster VW Redrive
>
> do not archive
>
>
>>From: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
>>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:44:11 +1000
>>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>>
>>Is there any type of material that can be substituted safely for aircraft
>>type rib stitching. I just priced a role from Polyfiber and have been
>>quoted
>>$64 for the thread and $25 for the needle. The role comes in one size with
>>sufficient length to rib stitch the worlds entire kitfox fleet. Has anyone
>>used anything else succesfully? I know, Im starting to penny pinch but Im
>>into my last piggy bank.
>>
>>Cheers
>>Graeme -----
>>
>>Original Message -----
>>From: "Alan & Linda Daniels" <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:04 PM
>>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib stitching
>>
>>
>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels
>> > <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>> >
>> > Rib stitching, riveting, and gluing are all good. I have nothing
>> > against
>> > any of them, but just so some don't get overly afraid that their wing
>> > fabric is going to come off in flight consider the strength of modern
>> > fabric and glue. I think medium fabric will hold something like 130
>> > pounds per square inch, were cotton was something like 15. If you use
>> > proper procedures and follow the manufactures recommendations you WILL
>> > NOT loose the fabric off the wing no matter what you do. You may rip
>> > the
>> > wing off, but the fabric will still be on it. With 144 sq. inches in a
>> > sq. foot times 132 sq. feet times 130 pounds per inch equals something
>> > just short of 2.5 millions pounds on the wing fabric. Yes I know that
>> > requires even load, full support each inch and all, but the point is
>> > fabric is darn strong. With proper overlaps and procedures, and the
>> > fabric held in tension against the wing structure it is not the weak
>> > point. With no in-flight failures I am not sure what the weak point is
>> > as no one has found it, except maybe the loose nut holding onto the
>> > stick. Good attaching to the ribs helps keep fabric in the proper shape
>> > during lift, but its not coming off.
>> >
>> > Dee Young wrote:
>> >
>> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>> >>
>> >>I rib stitched and am very glad I did. Of all the things I can worry
>>about
>> >>when off the ground - the fabric coming lose isn't one of them. Not
>>ever.
>> >>It was a lot of fun to do, it was educational and looks very
>>traditional.
>> >>
>> >>Dee Young
>> >>Model II
>> >>
>> >>Do not archive
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: looking for a CFI in michigan |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
It's possible to mount it there. I got a later tank from one of our
"list" members, so I quit trying to modify the mounting location. The
capacity is about 1 gallon, or slightly more, like 1.2 gals. It has
only the bottom outlet, unlike the newer models that have the outlet in
the lower front, above the bottom by about an inch. Therefore, (in the
tank that I have to give away) the junk doesn't get trapped in the
bottom of the tank, but goes out the outlet so you would need a
gascolator to trap the junk. The newer models have the outlet raised,
so junk gets trapped in the bottom of the tank,and removed through the
sump drain.
Lynn
On Tuesday, March 21, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Richard Rabbers wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers"
> <rira1950@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> I've got a header tank for the earlier (IV) if that will work...it
>>
> [/quote]
>
> Lynn,
>
> Thanks
> .... does this tank mount on the back side of the same area? (as the
> behind the seat tank) Also - what is the capacity?
>
> BTW - congratulations on your progress!
> I look forward to a Michigan Fox fly-in.
>
> --------
> Richard in SW Michigan
> Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23132#23132
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Steve Wittman crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
I have ask for more details and will pass them along as soon as I get
them .
Alan & Linda Daniels wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>
>This is the response I got from the EAA.
>
>Alan,
>
>It's our understanding that the fabric on the top of the wing directly ahead of
the aileron detached and ballooned up. This upset the airflow over the aileron,
causing a violent flutter leading to in-flight breakup of the aircraft.
It was determined that Steve had mixed two different fabric covering processes
when covering the airplane, which led to a breakdown of adhesion of the fabric
to the wing, which resulted in the separation and ballooning.
>
>Hope this helps!
>
>Joe Norris
>EAA Aviation Services
>EAA Aviation Center, Oshkosh, WI
>888-322-4636, extension 6806
>jnorris@eaa.org
>
>
>Alan & Linda Daniels wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>>
>>I believe there was more to his crash than type of paint, but I don't
>>remember the details. I will look for the report on it.
>>
>>kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>>>
>>>Steve Wittman perished when his automotive paint and aeromotive fabric chose
to fly in "loose formation" with the rest of the aircraft.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 49
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| Subject: | It Flew! Cooling. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Shaun Smith <shaun-s@sbcglobal.net>
take me off your list
John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted
by: "John Anderson"
My EFI is lap top reprogramable with an LED readout in the c/pit so I have
it all set to read green, nice for dummys...
From: "wingsdown"
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown"
Yep, I think if had had a EFI I would still be flying. LOP is lean of
peak. If your not familiar with it you might want to do your own
research and come to your on opinion. There is much controversy. But if
it was good enough for war time when it all counted on getting there and
home I think it has many advantages even beyond fuel savings.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
-->
No, just ground adjusable Rick. You wrote? (Just am aside you should be
able
to run LOP with that injector set up which will save you some fuel,
besides
the Subaru likes lean anyway.)?? Not sure what you mean here? And with
EFI,
if the engine quits the fuel will stop as the signal wil be gone, right?
John A.
From: "wingsdown"
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown"
I am not sure then John. The EA-82 is a bit different. Depending on
turbo size the 5 PSI boost may be right for the RPMs your turning. The
Turbo EA-81 torque band is between 3800 and 4200. So in cruise I would
suspect you should be fine. I wouldn't lug the engine on take off 5200
for best not most power, but also no need with that engine to run 6200
for most power either. AS you know there are a lot of variables to
consider when you have a turbo. Do you have an in-flight adjustable
prop? Just am aside you should be able to run LOP with that injector set
up which will save you some fuel, besides the Subaru likes lean anyway.
Another aside. Should for some reason you engine quite suddenly and it
didn't blow up. I would pull the fuel immediately then try restart. If
you don't there is a good chance the turbo will continue to spool and
pull fuel into the cylinders and wet them severely enough that a restart
might not happen. OK, old here, never mind you are hi teck injected
engine not crab or Ellison.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
-->
My plan to measure the delta T once I get cooling sorted, you'll see my
note to Kurt re the rad. Sea level and I have an EA82 turbo, the idea
being it would not be getting it neck rung out at the higher revs
compared the automotive use. But from how the engine is going and power
available, I thing I'd prob be cruising around 4k or a little higher,
not 5 like the normall aspirated chaps seem to be. John
From: "wingsdown"
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown"
I am not sure what altitude you are stating from, but if you are using
stock turbo pistons you should be at about 7PSI boost at sea level. The
stock pot is set to that. Again depends on RPM for gas flow to spin the
turbine. If your RPM is at 5200 or higher you should be showing 7PSI.
What turbo are you using? Infact with the fuel injection and intercooler
I would expect you could easily adjust up to 12PSI with no problems. But
if your not getting red of the heat your making, little sense in that. I
found the larger turbo model aluminum radiator provided by NSI to be
adequate for cooling, but its placement was critical for getting enough
air flow on the ground and at high AOA on full power climbs. I think you
have an excellent start with the design you have. May need more aft
radiator cowl work and design, possibly a ground or climb cooling fan.
Let me know if you have any specific questions. So many ways to skin a
cat. Do you have a way to measure your intake temps or the delta across
the intercooler?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
-->
Thanks Rick, yes you MUST miss your toy. I'm so impressed how well my
bird flies, smooth and controls feel as good as a Beaver... I've only
done 6 circs so far so not tested much in the cruise yet. About to have
another fly today. Oil temp seems good, the engine is pulling around
5psi of boost, is that compatable with what yours used to do? John
From: "wingsdown"
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It Flew! Cooling.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
-->
John,
Just beautiful. Wish I was still modifying things myself. I am just
wondering if you cooling problems are in cruise or full power climb out?
Rick,
former model 5 driver :)
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Become a fitness fanatic @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/health
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
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