Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:06 AM - Re: Model II tail & 3 questions (Ceashman@aol.com)
2. 04:07 AM - Re: Model II tail & 3 questions (N3pupnc@aol.com)
3. 06:52 AM - Mod IV or V Flaperon (Eric)
4. 07:35 AM - Re: 912 needle valves (kitfoxmike)
5. 07:50 AM - Re: Mod IV or V Flaperon (Rueb, Duane)
6. 07:57 AM - Re: Mod IV or V Flaperon (wingsdown)
7. 08:12 AM - Re: Trutrak (alnanarthur)
8. 08:21 AM - Re: Mod IV or V Flaperon (Algate)
9. 09:19 AM - Re: Trutrak (Fox5flyer)
10. 09:47 AM - Re: Trutrak (Michel Verheughe)
11. 09:55 AM - Re: Trutrak (Michel Verheughe)
12. 10:24 AM - Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? (Matt Teixeira)
13. 12:06 PM - Re: Trutrak - Laser Gyros (Charles Boccaccio)
14. 12:29 PM - Re: Trutrak - Laser Gyros (Michel Verheughe)
15. 12:52 PM - Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (Michel Verheughe)
16. 12:52 PM - Re: Hackers (alnanarthur)
17. 01:12 PM - Re: Trutrak - Laser Gyros (Ted Palamarek)
18. 01:20 PM - Re: Trutrak (alnanarthur)
19. 01:52 PM - Re: Hackers (Ted Palamarek)
20. 02:55 PM - Re: Trutrak (Lowell Fitt)
21. 03:19 PM - Re: Alternative engines - (Was) Anybody using a Corvair Engine? (Lowell Fitt)
22. 03:35 PM - Re: Hackers (Rex)
23. 05:38 PM - Re: first flight classic VI (Tim Vader)
24. 07:50 PM - Re: first flight classic VI (kirk hull)
25. 08:40 PM - Re: first flight classic VI (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Model II tail & 3 questions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
message posted by: "Grant Bright"
>Not sure if there are many Kitfoxes in the Atlanta area (?).
>If there are...we ought to have a fly in or a get together.
>Many thanks for all help.
>Thanks,
>Grant
Hello Grant.
There are a number of foxes in the Atlanta area. I live very close and to the
east of Stone Mountain.
I have a IV with a 912,. but contact off list if you want.
Cheers Eric.
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Model II tail & 3 questions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: N3pupnc@aol.com
I just puchased a kitfox IV with a 582
Warren Miller
Taylorville North Carolina
Message 3
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| Subject: | Mod IV or V Flaperon |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" <iworonko@cox.net>
Hi Folks,
still looking for a model 4 or 5 Left Flaperon or both sides if the seller will
not split the set.
Eric
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 912 needle valves |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
I thought I would pass along something I found on my fox over the weekend. I removed
the covers to replace the spark plugs and do a check over for the annual.
Well, I got to the carbs and there was gas coming out, further inspection
found that the idle screw were leaking, sure looked like the vents were leaking.
I pulled the screws and found the orings were shot. I went to the parts store
and put in a standard set, I think 3/32, could be wrong on that. they were
a little fatter and smaller, but once put on, sealed just fine.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24552#24552
Message 5
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| Subject: | Mod IV or V Flaperon |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane" <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
Eric:
You might want to contact John and Debra McBean of Sportplane at
http://Sportplane@cableone.net They are a great source of such things,
and now that they have purchased Kitfox, they are the most likely to be
able to help.
Duane Rueb
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 6:49 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Mod IV or V Flaperon
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" <iworonko@cox.net>
Hi Folks,
still looking for a model 4 or 5 Left Flaperon or both sides if the
seller will not split the set.
Eric
Message 6
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| Subject: | Mod IV or V Flaperon |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Eric,
Still have both left and right. Located in California near AJO.
For anyone one else looking for spare parts I have both wings some
damage, both wings have 13 gal tanks, I would say left wing tip major
damage, elevator and adjustable forward section, lift struts faired,
elevator lift struts faired, aluminum turtle deck, and rudder. I will
send anyone interested a pic of the parts off list. Entire package for
$2,500. I can help you or your carrier load. Contact off list please.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 6:49 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Mod IV or V Flaperon
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" <iworonko@cox.net>
Hi Folks,
still looking for a model 4 or 5 Left Flaperon or both sides if the
seller will not split the set. Eric
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Michel,
Thanks for your reply. I also got and off list description of the
Trutrak ADI from Bruce Lina which was very helpful.
I still don't understand solid state gyros.
I assume that it responds to both roll and yaw, as does a mechanical
turn coordinator.
Is it calibrated to do a 180 deg turn in one minute with the red dot
at the top in a "dog house".
Is there any problem in turbulence? How does it respond to a 360
deg. turn at a 45 or 60 deg bank angle?
I apologize for all these questions. I should just go buy one and
try it.
Allan Arthur
Kitfox 5, N40AA
Rotax 912s, Warpdrive 3 blade
Byron Airport CA (C83) Hanger C8
On Mar 26, 2006, at 10:25 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> On Mar 22, 2006, at 1:17 AM, alnanarthur wrote:
>
>> Now that you have been using the Trutrak Turn and Bank for a while,
>> how do you like it?
>
> Hello Allan, sorry for the late answer, I was in Poland for business,
> and couldn't check my email before now.
>
> I am very pleased with my TruTrak Pictorial turn coordinator. It's the
> small one (2 1/4") as it is what fitted my panel. Like they say, the
> moving sky (vs. the moving plane in a traditional turn coordinator) is
> easier to interpret (in reality your plane is the instrument and
> doesn't move). I have tried it with a hood and it is very easy to keep
> the plane on a straight level as the instrument is very, very
> sensitive
> to roll. It has no moving part (solid state) and only a step motor
> that
> moves the background blue (sky) half circle. At US$ 445, it is worth
> it.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Mod IV or V Flaperon |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Rick can you send me details also
algate@attglobal.net
Gary
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingsdown
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:56 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mod IV or V Flaperon
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Eric,
Still have both left and right. Located in California near AJO.
For anyone one else looking for spare parts I have both wings some
damage, both wings have 13 gal tanks, I would say left wing tip major
damage, elevator and adjustable forward section, lift struts faired,
elevator lift struts faired, aluminum turtle deck, and rudder. I will
send anyone interested a pic of the parts off list. Entire package for
$2,500. I can help you or your carrier load. Contact off list please.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 6:49 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Mod IV or V Flaperon
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" <iworonko@cox.net>
Hi Folks,
still looking for a model 4 or 5 Left Flaperon or both sides if the
seller will not split the set. Eric
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Over the winter I purchased the Trutrak ADI artificial horizon. I believe
what Michel has is the turn coordinator that doesn't give pitch info.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this Michel. I haven't flown it yet as the snow
has just finally left my runway, but will check it out soon and give the
list an opinion. I've read several testimonials from the RV list from
members with substantial instrument time. All of them liked it. Price is
around $1050 plus shipping. I have mine interaced with my Garmin 196 for
track info, but not flight check yet. Best of all, it weighs almost nothing
so WB needn't be a concern. So far, tech support has been outstanding.
Will be happy to answer any questions.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "alnanarthur" <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trutrak
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Hi Michel,
>
> Thanks for your reply. I also got and off list description of the
> Trutrak ADI from Bruce Lina which was very helpful.
>
> I still don't understand solid state gyros.
>
> I assume that it responds to both roll and yaw, as does a mechanical
> turn coordinator.
>
> Is it calibrated to do a 180 deg turn in one minute with the red dot
> at the top in a "dog house".
>
> Is there any problem in turbulence? How does it respond to a 360
> deg. turn at a 45 or 60 deg bank angle?
>
> I apologize for all these questions. I should just go buy one and
> try it.
>
>
> Allan Arthur
> Kitfox 5, N40AA
> Rotax 912s, Warpdrive 3 blade
> Byron Airport CA (C83) Hanger C8
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2006, at 10:25 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> >
> > On Mar 22, 2006, at 1:17 AM, alnanarthur wrote:
> >
> >> Now that you have been using the Trutrak Turn and Bank for a while,
> >> how do you like it?
> >
> > Hello Allan, sorry for the late answer, I was in Poland for business,
> > and couldn't check my email before now.
> >
> > I am very pleased with my TruTrak Pictorial turn coordinator. It's the
> > small one (2 1/4") as it is what fitted my panel. Like they say, the
> > moving sky (vs. the moving plane in a traditional turn coordinator) is
> > easier to interpret (in reality your plane is the instrument and
> > doesn't move). I have tried it with a hood and it is very easy to keep
> > the plane on a straight level as the instrument is very, very
> > sensitive
> > to roll. It has no moving part (solid state) and only a step motor
> > that
> > moves the background blue (sky) half circle. At US$ 445, it is worth
> > it.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Michel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Mar 27, 2006, at 6:10 PM, alnanarthur wrote:
> I still don't understand solid state gyros.
Nor do I, Allan, and I wish someone could explain it to me. From the
days before I became a pilot, and was simply an aviation aficionado, I
remember reading that the old mechanical gyro was being replaced by
laser gyros in big expensive aircraft. This must be something entirely
different. I wonder if it works like a flux gate compass that senses
the variation in magnetic fields.
> I assume that it responds to both roll and yaw, as does a mechanical
> turn coordinator.
Er, rather the rate of yaw and roll, Allan. From what I understand,
there are two types of gyroscopic turn indicators. The first one, the
"12 o'clock" needle moving left or right, is based on a horizontal gyro
that indicates only the turn rate, i.e. at which speed the turn is
effectuated in degrees per second. Then, in the 60s or 70s came the
gyro that was tilted about 30 degrees with the horizon. That gyro would
detect both the turn rate but also the rate of roll. The display was
then the horizontal aircraft symbol moving on one side or the other.
> Is it calibrated to do a 180 deg turn in one minute with the red dot
> at the top in a "dog house".
Although it is not documented, my testing seems to indicate that it is
indeed the 1 min for 180 degrees, or often called the standard two
minutes turn.
> Is there any problem in turbulence? How does it respond to a 360
> deg. turn at a 45 or 60 deg bank angle?
I haven't yet been flying in very turbulent air nor taken turns more
that 45 degrees but, with a bit of turbulence and the plane rolling on
one wing then the other, the instrument is following extremely quickly
all small variations. Turning 180 or 160 at say 45 degrees bank, you
may overshoot but it may simply be me not being a very good pilot.
When I got the instrument, at home, I connected it to a 12 V power
source. I then rolled the instrument keeping the same heading and it
showed the horizon keeping horizontal. I then turned the heading
without banking, and it showed the horizon moving, as it does when e.g.
I turn when taxiing on the runway. However, when flying and going into
a sideslip, it kept horizontal. My conclusion was then this: It shows
the rate of turn (yaw) and the rate or roll. But it doesn't show the
actual banking if it is sustained as it is in a side slip. Does it
makes sense? I don't know enough about gyro instrument and if anyone
else can shed some more light on this, I'd be as grateful as you.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Mar 27, 2006, at 7:16 PM, Fox5flyer wrote:
> what Michel has is the turn coordinator that doesn't give pitch info.
> Correct me if I'm wrong on this Michel.
That is correct, Deke. My main concern was the fear to end up in a
deadly spin if I was to encounter IMC against my will. I feel I can
still check my pitch from the VVI and the Pictorial Turn and Bank was
good enough to keep level wings.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 12
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| Subject: | Anybody using a Corvair Engine? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Matt Teixeira" <mteixeira@wmlylesco.com>
Gentlemen:
Thank you for your reply. It is clear that the Model IV has too light
of a gross weight rating to be a two place cross country aircraft with
the heavier alternative engine choices. It also appears that the Subaru
engine and the Corvair are in the same weight class and that Model IV's
powered by the Subaru have traded useful load for an alternative engine.
The insurance ramifications are concerns as well.
I now have to consider just how important the useful load is when I fly
95% of the time solo.
Thank you,
Matt K-IV,
Fresno, CA
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Trutrak - Laser Gyros |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Charles Boccaccio <charlieboccaccio@yahoo.com>
Besides my Kitfox 3, I fly commercially a Pilatus PC12 which is equipped with
laser gyros. The gyros are not solid state, but rather are very high precision
electric motor driven gyros that use laser beams bounced off the spinning gyro
(mirrors) to give high precision angular information. A laser gyro is installed
some where in the floor of an aircraft and the information is displayed with
a remote indicator, usually a EFIS (Tube display).
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
On Mar 27, 2006, at 6:10 PM, alnanarthur wrote:
> I still don't understand solid state gyros.
Nor do I, Allan, and I wish someone could explain it to me. From the
days before I became a pilot, and was simply an aviation aficionado, I
remember reading that the old mechanical gyro was being replaced by
laser gyros in big expensive aircraft. This must be something entirely
different. I wonder if it works like a flux gate compass that senses
the variation in magnetic fields.
> I assume that it responds to both roll and yaw, as does a mechanical
> turn coordinator.
Er, rather the rate of yaw and roll, Allan. From what I understand,
there are two types of gyroscopic turn indicators. The first one, the
"12 o'clock" needle moving left or right, is based on a horizontal gyro
that indicates only the turn rate, i.e. at which speed the turn is
effectuated in degrees per second. Then, in the 60s or 70s came the
gyro that was tilted about 30 degrees with the horizon. That gyro would
detect both the turn rate but also the rate of roll. The display was
then the horizontal aircraft symbol moving on one side or the other.
> Is it calibrated to do a 180 deg turn in one minute with the red dot
> at the top in a "dog house".
Although it is not documented, my testing seems to indicate that it is
indeed the 1 min for 180 degrees, or often called the standard two
minutes turn.
> Is there any problem in turbulence? How does it respond to a 360
> deg. turn at a 45 or 60 deg bank angle?
I haven't yet been flying in very turbulent air nor taken turns more
that 45 degrees but, with a bit of turbulence and the plane rolling on
one wing then the other, the instrument is following extremely quickly
all small variations. Turning 180 or 160 at say 45 degrees bank, you
may overshoot but it may simply be me not being a very good pilot.
When I got the instrument, at home, I connected it to a 12 V power
source. I then rolled the instrument keeping the same heading and it
showed the horizon keeping horizontal. I then turned the heading
without banking, and it showed the horizon moving, as it does when e.g.
I turn when taxiing on the runway. However, when flying and going into
a sideslip, it kept horizontal. My conclusion was then this: It shows
the rate of turn (yaw) and the rate or roll. But it doesn't show the
actual banking if it is sustained as it is in a side slip. Does it
makes sense? I don't know enough about gyro instrument and if anyone
else can shed some more light on this, I'd be as grateful as you.
Cheers,
Michel
---------------------------------
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Trutrak - Laser Gyros |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Mar 27, 2006, at 10:03 PM, Charles Boccaccio wrote:
> The gyros are not solid state, but rather are very high precision
> electric motor driven gyros that use laser beams bounced off the
> spinning gyro (mirrors) to give high precision angular information.
Thank you, Charles. I thought the laser gyro didn't had moving parts
and was simply measuring the time a laser ray would travel through a
round tube, thus sensing a yaw by a slightly shorter or longer time. I
stand now corrected as I must have misread the book about navigation it
came from.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
I just "googled" Solid State Gyro and came up with an interesting site:
http://www.w3mh.co.uk/articles/html/csm7_8.htm
Note that it is for RC helicopters but, I believe, it's the same cheap
solid state gyro used in the TruTrak. The article confirms my
observation that the response time is extremely high. A downside seems
to be that it is temperature sensitive.
In any case, I will never use the TruTrak to fly IMC, but have it as an
extra safety device if say, I meet a low cloud edge and have to keep
out of a spin while I do a 180 turn to get out of it. In Norway, we fly
often in deep valleys with steep mountain sides. We are told to always
be aware to fly on the weather side of the valley and not the lee side,
and be ready to make a 180 toward the wind, if needed.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
I just got a email message from Yasir Sabri responding to Re: Kitfox-
List: Trutrak[Verification]
He has a yahoo.com address, somebody ought to be able to chase him
down and squash him.
Allan Arthur
On Mar 25, 2006, at 6:16 PM, Don Smythe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
> Graeme,
> Your post came through 4 times. Was that on purpose???. I
> received a
> similar post from this Sabri person. Getting worried????
>
> Don Smythe.
> =======
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Trutrak - Laser Gyros |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Hi Michael and others
The ring laser gyro is a truly solid state piece of equipment --- no moving
parts. Go to the link below and you will find a very good explanation of how
it works. Basically a laser beam is split in two, with the two beams going
around the ring in opposite directions. Where the beams meet again, there is
a detector which measures the difference between the times it took the beams
to arrive at the detector. For example, if the device is rotated clockwise
then the beam traveling clockwise takes longer to reach the detector ---
conversely the beam traveling anti clockwise will take a shorter time to
reach the detector. This difference is then processed and presented as a
rate of change in to the various components of an HSI or other attitude
sensing device in the cockpit.
It's been years since I fooled with this stuff --- was very interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_laser_gyroscope
Hope this helps
Ted
Edmonton, Ab
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trutrak - Laser Gyros
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Mar 27, 2006, at 10:03 PM, Charles Boccaccio wrote:
> The gyros are not solid state, but rather are very high precision
> electric motor driven gyros that use laser beams bounced off the
> spinning gyro (mirrors) to give high precision angular information.
Thank you, Charles. I thought the laser gyro didn't had moving parts
and was simply measuring the time a laser ray would travel through a
round tube, thus sensing a yaw by a slightly shorter or longer time. I
stand now corrected as I must have misread the book about navigation it
came from.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
Hi All,
Here is a website that describes laser gyros and MEMS.
http://www.xbow.com/General_info/gyro_guide.htm#background
They state that the MEMS uses:
" a 3-axis accelerometer and a 3-axis rate sensor to make a complete
measurement of the dynamics of your system. The addition of a 3-axis
magnetometer inside the Crossbow AHRS allows it to make a true
measurement of magnetic heading without an external flux valve"
Possibly Trutrak units use a similar system.
Allan Arthur
Kitfox 5, N40AA
Rotax 912s, Warpdrive 3 blade
Byron Airport CA (C83) Hanger C8
On Mar 27, 2006, at 9:45 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> On Mar 27, 2006, at 6:10 PM, alnanarthur wrote:
>
>> I still don't understand solid state gyros.
>
> Nor do I, Allan, and I wish someone could explain it to me. From the
> days before I became a pilot, and was simply an aviation aficionado, I
> remember reading that the old mechanical gyro was being replaced by
> laser gyros in big expensive aircraft. This must be something entirely
> different. I wonder if it works like a flux gate compass that senses
> the variation in magnetic fields.
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Allan, Don and others
I looks like that yasir sabri guy has hi-jacked the Kitfox list of names and
is sending direct to the members of the list. I just received a message.
"""Warning to all members -- DO NOT Click on the link he provides.""""
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ted
Edmonton, Ab
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of alnanarthur
Sent: March 27, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hackers
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
I just got a email message from Yasir Sabri responding to Re: Kitfox-
List: Trutrak[Verification]
He has a yahoo.com address, somebody ought to be able to chase him
down and squash him.
Allan Arthur
On Mar 25, 2006, at 6:16 PM, Don Smythe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
> Graeme,
> Your post came through 4 times. Was that on purpose???. I
> received a
> similar post from this Sabri person. Getting worried????
>
> Don Smythe.
> =======
>
>
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I also don't have a clue how they work, but have checked the solid state
gyros available to the RC modelers - specifically the helicopter guys. For
about $70 you can interface an RC servo with a gyro and it helps maintain
attitude. Cool stuff.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trutrak
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> On Mar 27, 2006, at 6:10 PM, alnanarthur wrote:
>
>> I still don't understand solid state gyros.
>
> Nor do I, Allan, and I wish someone could explain it to me. From the
> days before I became a pilot, and was simply an aviation aficionado, I
> remember reading that the old mechanical gyro was being replaced by
> laser gyros in big expensive aircraft. This must be something entirely
> different. I wonder if it works like a flux gate compass that senses
> the variation in magnetic fields.
>
>> I assume that it responds to both roll and yaw, as does a mechanical
>> turn coordinator.
>
> Er, rather the rate of yaw and roll, Allan. From what I understand,
> there are two types of gyroscopic turn indicators. The first one, the
> "12 o'clock" needle moving left or right, is based on a horizontal gyro
> that indicates only the turn rate, i.e. at which speed the turn is
> effectuated in degrees per second. Then, in the 60s or 70s came the
> gyro that was tilted about 30 degrees with the horizon. That gyro would
> detect both the turn rate but also the rate of roll. The display was
> then the horizontal aircraft symbol moving on one side or the other.
>
>> Is it calibrated to do a 180 deg turn in one minute with the red dot
>> at the top in a "dog house".
>
> Although it is not documented, my testing seems to indicate that it is
> indeed the 1 min for 180 degrees, or often called the standard two
> minutes turn.
>
>> Is there any problem in turbulence? How does it respond to a 360
>> deg. turn at a 45 or 60 deg bank angle?
>
> I haven't yet been flying in very turbulent air nor taken turns more
> that 45 degrees but, with a bit of turbulence and the plane rolling on
> one wing then the other, the instrument is following extremely quickly
> all small variations. Turning 180 or 160 at say 45 degrees bank, you
> may overshoot but it may simply be me not being a very good pilot.
> When I got the instrument, at home, I connected it to a 12 V power
> source. I then rolled the instrument keeping the same heading and it
> showed the horizon keeping horizontal. I then turned the heading
> without banking, and it showed the horizon moving, as it does when e.g.
> I turn when taxiing on the runway. However, when flying and going into
> a sideslip, it kept horizontal. My conclusion was then this: It shows
> the rate of turn (yaw) and the rate or roll. But it doesn't show the
> actual banking if it is sustained as it is in a side slip. Does it
> makes sense? I don't know enough about gyro instrument and if anyone
> else can shed some more light on this, I'd be as grateful as you.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines - (Was) Anybody using a Corvair Engine? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hey list,
This is copied from the Lancair list and is the best argument I have heard
for the feasibility of the auto conversion and has pretty much convinced me
all other considerations being equal.
(copy)
A personal view on auto conversions.. I love airplane engines (read
lyco/cont), but it's based on my personal value "tradeoff", not based on
OWT
(Old Wise Tale) of engine capabilities.
It is certainly true that normal family car engine performance/usage/duty
profile is quite different that a typical GA aircraft (even for
Corvette's -
unless perhaps you live at Bonneville). However, to use a typical auto
engine duty cycle to compare the "capability" of aircraft and auto engines
is a bit misleading (i.e. OWT vs fact/engineering). Selectively, auto
engines are "capable" of much more than driving to the grocery or
grandma's
(especially if/when setup for a specific application). Likewise,
attempting
to use a NASCAR/racing engine as an comparative basis aero/auto engine
capability is also pretty misleading - they're, designed for "ultimate" HP
and aren't intended for extended durability (beyond perhaps 600 miles).
For
comparison purposes, the "capability" of a (properly setup) auto engine
(in
an aircraft sense) is somewhere in BETWEEN "workday commute" and "winners
circle".
While not at all perfect, other analogies exist which provide a better
basis
for comparing "capabilities" and advantages/disadvantages of auto and
aircraft engines. For example, my LT1 (corvette motor) based ski boat
spends most of its life around 4000+ RPM with an ungodly number of full
throttle starts - probably more "take-offs" than a normal Lyc/Cont ever
sees
(perhaps some C152 "pattern zombie" trainers that can top it). This is
much
more analogous to a typical GA aero engine and demonstrates the potential
for similar aero/auto engine capabilities. Additionally, It runs with V8
smoothness, but is subject to constant vibration from waves and my
unbalanced "dinged" prop, through a geared drive unit. It spends most
it's
life in a wet/humid environment. It spends winter months just sitting
(never fogged it) and it still re-starts each spring. Any idiot can start
it - just turn the key - no need to touch anything else. It doesn't need
special (overly toxic and expensive) fuel - it's electronic control unit
adjusts for the operating conditions and octane used (knock detection).
It
doesn't get oil changes every 25-50 hours. It's spark plugs last
virtually
forever (hence doesn't need two per cylinder) and can be purchased at
Walmart for a few $. It doesn't benefit from enhanced engine gauges (CHT,
EGT, etc) to allow intelligent operation - in fact in the hands of some of
my "lake friends" it gets rather rough treatment. It once ran without any
cooling water (hose was disconnected), momentarily overheated, and still
runs fine. It once had a fuel pump failure and still got home in "limp
home" mode. (Those events due tend to highlight the danger of complexity
and the need for redundancy in an aircraft application). It provides well
over 300 HP in the stock/factory configuration. HP performance
improvements
can add 50-100% to that. Personal/anecdotal experience aside - this is
typical usage/capability for auto engines in marine applications. Aside
from lake water vs radiator for cooling, some added redundancies, and
attention to a few high weight components, an aircraft auto conversion
could
be similar.
Have to add one OWT, since I am also not immune to their fun. A former (4
cylinder auto engine) boat of mine run fine after being "totally
submerged"
for a few days (don't ask). I left it in the boat, drained and replaced
the
oil (milky watery mess), dried out the distributor, and purged the water
from the cylinders by cranking it with the sparkplugs removed. Presto, it
ran fine till the day I sold it (forgot to provide that part of it's
history
to the new owner - oh well). Perhaps not a great analogy - but an
interesting OWT on the potential for extreme durability.
Commercial trucks/busses typically run for "several" thousand hours (way
over 2,000 TBO) and I was once told that diesel locomotives (some of which
are over 30 years old) run for months without ever being shut off,
sometimes
in high HP uphill routes, (unverified - any locomotive experts out
there?).
Those are poor analogies, but do provide some awareness of the potential
range of operating envelopes of various piston engines.
Auto and aircraft engines have been engineered/set-up for different
applications and thus provide different advantages/benefits and
limitations/drawbacks. It's not that either is simply any better/worst
overall. Both have been improved over time through creativity, science,
and
testing on the part of "teams" of professionals (there is no "magic" in
either). Autos benefit from the economics of relatively high production
volume, a highly competitive global marketplace, the desire for
idiot-proof
operation, and relatively benign "land based" failure scenarios. Aircraft
benefit from the "assumption" of a relatively intelligent/competent pilot
(trading increased operator workload for mechanical
simplicity/durability -
i.e. mixture and temp monitoring), acknowledgement of efficient prop RPM's
limitations, designed-in redundancy on critical items (mags), and a
heightened economic payback for weight reduction. History has
demonstrated
successful liquid cooled engines in (production) aircraft and successful
air
cooled engines in cars, when setup/engineered accordingly.
Likewise, there have been good (and bad) conversions/installations of auto
engines for experimental aircraft. In all cases, it implies a
knowledgeable/factual acceptance of the tradeoffs. Those are ultimately
personal and the purview of those in the "experimental" world with the
time/energy/values to pursue them. For those traveling that path, I
respect
their motivation and dedication, more power to them - pun intended :-)
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Teixeira" <mteixeira@wmlylesco.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Matt Teixeira"
> <mteixeira@wmlylesco.com>
>
> Gentlemen:
> Thank you for your reply. It is clear that the Model IV has too light
> of a gross weight rating to be a two place cross country aircraft with
> the heavier alternative engine choices. It also appears that the Subaru
> engine and the Corvair are in the same weight class and that Model IV's
> powered by the Subaru have traded useful load for an alternative engine.
> The insurance ramifications are concerns as well.
>
> I now have to consider just how important the useful load is when I fly
> 95% of the time solo.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt K-IV,
> Fresno, CA
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
I think forwarding the message to abuse @ yahoo.com is a place to start.
forward the complete e-mail - INCLUDING HEADERS
Colorado Rex
Do Not Archive
alnanarthur wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I just got a email message from Yasir Sabri responding to Re: Kitfox-
>List: Trutrak[Verification]
>
>He has a yahoo.com address, somebody ought to be able to chase him
>down and squash him.
>
>Allan Arthur
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: first flight classic VI |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tim Vader" <vadert@telusplanet.net>
Kirk
I'm not the best person to answer this post; there are other on the list
who have plenty of time in KF IV's with Subarus but nothing was coming
through so here's my two cents worth.
I don't have the numbers you're asking for, however, I have taken my
Kitfox IV with Subaru engine for it's first flight last summer. I had an
engine out on the second flight and damaged the aircraft.
My bird has an empty weight of 742 lbs and the cg is near the front of
the envelope when empty.
For my first flight I let the plane tell me when it was ready to fly.
At a certain speed it will want to leave the runway. I kept all of my
speeds well above the speeds published in the Skystar handbook. Your
airspeed indicator system may not be working properly (misaligned pitot,
pitot line blockage, instrument calibration) so I think the most prudent
thing is to remain above the published speeds until you feel comfortable to
push towards the figures.
I think the first flight (flights) should be used to check temperatures,
gauges etc. to make sure every thing is working properly. If there are no
bugs then you can start to work determining the speeds you and your plane
are comfortable with.
Tim Vader
C-FBYV
----- Original Message -----
From: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 3:29 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: first flight classic VI
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I am getting ready to to the first flight in a classic VI with a 100 HP
> subaru and was wandering if anyone could give me some prelimanary # for
>
> lift off
> Clime speed
> Approach
> landing
> stall clean
> Stall with full Flaps
>
> I am just looking for a baseline to start with from another classic VI
> with
> similar HP
>
>
> Thanks Kirk
> classic VI N205AK
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | first flight classic VI |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
thanks . we have done alot of taxi to check the temps and was planning to
add a little to all of the V speeds until I could check them out at alt.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Vader
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: first flight classic VI
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tim Vader" <vadert@telusplanet.net>
Kirk
I'm not the best person to answer this post; there are other on the list
who have plenty of time in KF IV's with Subarus but nothing was coming
through so here's my two cents worth.
I don't have the numbers you're asking for, however, I have taken my
Kitfox IV with Subaru engine for it's first flight last summer. I had an
engine out on the second flight and damaged the aircraft.
My bird has an empty weight of 742 lbs and the cg is near the front of
the envelope when empty.
For my first flight I let the plane tell me when it was ready to fly.
At a certain speed it will want to leave the runway. I kept all of my
speeds well above the speeds published in the Skystar handbook. Your
airspeed indicator system may not be working properly (misaligned pitot,
pitot line blockage, instrument calibration) so I think the most prudent
thing is to remain above the published speeds until you feel comfortable to
push towards the figures.
I think the first flight (flights) should be used to check temperatures,
gauges etc. to make sure every thing is working properly. If there are no
bugs then you can start to work determining the speeds you and your plane
are comfortable with.
Tim Vader
C-FBYV
----- Original Message -----
From: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 3:29 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: first flight classic VI
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I am getting ready to to the first flight in a classic VI with a 100 HP
> subaru and was wandering if anyone could give me some prelimanary # for
>
> lift off
> Clime speed
> Approach
> landing
> stall clean
> Stall with full Flaps
>
> I am just looking for a baseline to start with from another classic VI
> with
> similar HP
>
>
> Thanks Kirk
> classic VI N205AK
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: first flight classic VI |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Kirk,
I got my tailwheel endorsement in a IV/Soob and fly a
V/Soob now. I dont remember all the speeds for the
IV perfectly, but you already have some good advice
there: Add a little to the book speeds initially and
use lots of runway too. I've added 5 to all except
the landing and stalls for you as I remember them.
You can take that out when your testing shows better,
or use what you feel prudent.
I'll fill in below for you as best as I know. Expect
some float for landing with the speed buffer. Do your
stalls when comfortable to know the speeds better with
your indicator.
My FAA inspector told me to angle, then climb adjacent
to the runway so that I can turn back to the runway
next to me rather than under and behind me, if I need
to. If your airport terrain allows that, you should
consider it too.
Be careful to use a near center CG initially so that
you have the best elevator authority available.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
.........................
--- kirk hull <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I am getting ready to to the first flight in a
> classic VI with a 100 HP
> subaru and was wandering if anyone could give me
> some prelimanary # for
>
> lift off 55 (approx-use feel)
> Climb speed 65
> Approach 65
> landing 45
> stall clean 42
> Stall with full Flaps 37
>
> I am just looking for a baseline to start with from
> another classic VI with similar HP
>
> Thanks Kirk
> classic VI N205AK
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