Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:31 AM - Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:23 AM - Re: Lift strut ends. (Fox5flyer)
3. 04:27 AM - Re: ZK-RJA (Fox5flyer)
4. 04:49 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (wwillyard@aol.com)
5. 04:49 AM - Re: ZK-RJA (W Duke)
6. 04:50 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Fox5flyer)
7. 04:50 AM - Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (Fox5flyer)
8. 05:13 AM - Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (scooby harrington)
9. 05:33 AM - Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (mscotter@comcast.net)
10. 05:51 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Len Shorethose)
11. 05:52 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Lynn Matteson)
12. 05:58 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Lynn Matteson)
13. 06:15 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Richard Rabbers)
14. 06:21 AM - Re: Lift strut ends. (flier)
15. 07:03 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (COZIK,KEVIN)
16. 07:17 AM - sound proofing a model 4 (Gill Levesque)
17. 07:49 AM - Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (alnanarthur)
18. 07:56 AM - 582 throttle cables (Gill Levesque)
19. 08:05 AM - Speedster wingtips (Gill Levesque)
20. 08:53 AM - Re: sound proofing a model 4 (kurt schrader)
21. 09:06 AM - Restoration: Covering and Painting (Jose M. Toro)
22. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (kurt schrader)
23. 09:14 AM - Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (kurt schrader)
24. 09:19 AM - Re: sound proofing a model 4 (Gill Levesque)
25. 10:13 AM - Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (Randy Daughenbaugh)
26. 10:57 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Lynn Matteson)
27. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: Another 'fox flies! (Lynn Matteson)
28. 11:20 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Lynn Matteson)
29. 11:27 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Richard Rabbers)
30. 11:42 AM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Richard Rabbers)
31. 11:55 AM - Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (mscotter@comcast.net)
32. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak (mscotter@comcast.net)
33. 01:32 PM - Re: Restoration: Covering and Painting (Bradley M Webb)
34. 02:05 PM - Re: Restoration: Covering and Painting (flier)
35. 02:30 PM - Spammer (Randy Daughenbaugh)
36. 02:34 PM - Vixen gross weight (Jeremy Casey)
37. 03:01 PM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (jeff puls)
38. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: Another 'fox flies! (Lynn Matteson)
39. 03:49 PM - Re: Speedster wingtips (Lowell Fitt)
40. 03:50 PM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Lowell Fitt)
41. 03:54 PM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Lynn Matteson)
42. 04:00 PM - Doors open (Lowell Fitt)
43. 04:30 PM - Re: 582 throttle cables (Bob Robertson)
44. 05:06 PM - Re: Vixen gross weight (Dave and Diane)
45. 05:07 PM - Re: Restoration: Covering and Painting (Bradley M Webb)
46. 05:19 PM - Re: Vixen gross weight (eccles)
47. 05:21 PM - Re: Doors open (Dan Billingsley)
48. 05:31 PM - Re: Vixen gross weight (jdmcbean)
49. 06:12 PM - Re: Doors open (Alan & Linda Daniels)
50. 06:36 PM - Re: Spammer (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
51. 06:40 PM - Re: 582 throttle cables (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
52. 07:24 PM - Re: Another 'fox flies! (Kevin Cozik)
53. 07:32 PM - Re: Doors open (Donna and Roger McConnell)
54. 07:52 PM - Re: Spammer (Don Pearsall)
55. 08:13 PM - Re: Spammer (Don Pearsall)
56. 10:01 PM - Re: Vixen gross weight (Thomas Lee)
57. 11:20 PM - SV: Spammer (Michel Verheughe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com]
> I think this is a subject the helo modelers could
> address well. The stabilization system they use is
> very light, takes little power and should be fairly
> competive price wize.
I have a hunch that this is what's happening with the TruTrak, Kurt. I think their
indicator uses the same solid state gyro as the helo modeler guys. Which makes
sense since TruTrak is offering a cheap non-certified autopilot system.
Cheers,
Michel
PS: How's your Kitfox flying coming along?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lift strut ends. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Graeme, those are called Rod Ends and are available in Aircraft Spruce
Catalog. I don't know the part number, but somebody should be able to
provide it to you from their builders manual. If you can't get the part
number it's easy to just take the dimensions and match them to the diagrams
in the catalog.
I was gone for about ten days so I may have missed it, but what did you do
to cause one to break? Those are pretty tough and I'd also be concerned
about what was going on inside the wing too, specifically the spar.
Hope this helps a bit.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "QSS" <msm@byterocky.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Lift strut ends.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "QSS" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
>
> Hi Guys, I thought it might be a good idea to replace the lift strut
> ends (not sure what you call them but they screw in at the wing end of
> the lift strut and attach on the under surface). One broke on impact but
> the other 3 appear to be OK but as they were placed under high loadings
> it would be wise to replace them all. Can someone tell me what their
> called and who I order them through please. Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards
> Graeme
>
>
> --
> 29/03/2006
>
>
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Sounds about right to me John. Keep up the testing.
Deke
S5
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:30 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: ZK-RJA
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
<janderson412@hotmail.com>
>
> Sorry guys for rabbiting on but still on a high due to how nice my wee
bird
> flies.. Just back from doing my first stall tests so looking for some feed
> back from you series 5 drivers. Power off no flap and it just mushes and
> begins to descend, no wing drop, same with 1 notch of flap and wee bit of
> power. With just myself in the seat the CoG is right on the f/ward limit
so
> I guess this is normal. I have gap seals on the elevator. John A.
>
> Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: wwillyard@aol.com
It's about time we have a Michigan Kitfox fly-in. I'm ready!
Bill W.
Classic IV
do not archive
> Huzzah Lynn! Looking forward to seeing you and all the other Michigan
> Kitfoxes at the Michigan Kitfox fly-in (date and place TBA
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
Sounds like our S6.
Maxwell S6/TD/IO240
John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Sorry guys for rabbiting on but still on a high due to how nice my wee bird
flies.. Just back from doing my first stall tests so looking for some feed
back from you series 5 drivers. Power off no flap and it just mushes and
begins to descend, no wing drop, same with 1 notch of flap and wee bit of
power. With just myself in the seat the CoG is right on the f/ward limit so
I guess this is normal. I have gap seals on the elevator. John A.
Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
---------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Hey guys. Between myself, Lynn, Marco, and Fred, we have a squadron! Lets
come up with a central point where we can meet. Also, there are other Foxes
here in MI, one at Pinconning and another at Traverse City area, but no on
the list so I don't know how to get hold of them.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Hey, Deke...I still owe you a lunch for the header tank, but I'll
> accept your lunch and owe you one when you get down here again.
> Are you going to Sun 'n' Fun?
>
> Lynn
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2006, at 07:44 AM, Fox5flyer wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
> > <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >
> > Heeeyyyyy Lynn! Congrats to you my friend! Get those hours flown off
> > and
> > fly on up for lunch. I'm buying.
> > Deke
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
TruTrak has been in the auto pilot business for quite some time and only
relatively recently started producing the AH and TC units to make their APs
a complete package.
On that note, I finally flew again after 4 months. I made several mods over
the winter and was dying to check them out, specifically the TruTrak AH. I
was very surprised at how well it worked, especially the quickness of its
reaction time. I interfaced it through my Garmin 196 so it also gives track
information. I haven't done any hood time with it yet, but I suspect it'll
be just fine for that.
I'll see if I can dig up something that explains how it works.
Deke
> > From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com]
> > I think this is a subject the helo modelers could
> > address well. The stabilization system they use is
> > very light, takes little power and should be fairly
> > competive price wize.
>
> I have a hunch that this is what's happening with the TruTrak, Kurt. I
think their indicator uses the same solid state gyro as the helo modeler
guys. Which makes sense since TruTrak is offering a cheap non-certified
autopilot system.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> PS: How's your Kitfox flying coming along?
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scooby harrington" <scoobytrash@hotmail.com>
I've been an RC modeler for years and the pizo gyros have been around for
quite
awhile now although I have never personally used them. I checked with tower
hobbies and they have a number of gyros from futaba (one of the oldest RC
brands around):
http://tinyurl.com/pz432 - single axis pizo gyro, 1oz, $140
http://tinyurl.com/l9n7o - single axis gyro with ctlr and
servo(47oz-in) $380
For some reason, all the dual axis pizo gyros seem to be discontinued and
they seem
to be moving toward single axis units. The servo included above is
obviously too weak
for real aircraft although you can buy a monster servo with 180 oz-in of
torque
for about $80 which is getting pretty close to usable. Interesting
possibilities, one
could assemble a pretty much off the shelf auto-pilot with RC parts for
under $500.
Scooby
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: mscotter@comcast.net
Hello Kurt (and everyone else), I am an RC heli pilot and will try to add what
I can to the subject, although I'm not sure what your particular questions are.
Yes, the gyros we use have come a long way and are very precise. Most people in
the heli end of the rc world say that the advent of the gyro and the computerised
transmitter has revolutionized the way we fly our machines. But I digress...
Since I'm not sure what you're looking for, I'll try to give a general overview
of how we use them.
In the world of rc helis, it is pretty much a given that everyone is flying with
a gyro on the tail servo to stabilize the ship in yaw. This makes it incredibly
easier to fly, as without it you would have to make a change in tail rotor
pitch for every change in throttle, every cyclic application, every slight bit
of breeze, etc. With the gyro on the tail, the nose stays locked in and stays
wherever I have it pointed until I command a change in direction by applying
some rudder (antitorque for you helo guys). There's generally two modes in
our gyros: "rate" mode and "heading hold" mode. These involve a different control
algorithm, but the bottom line is that everybody runs in heading hold mode,
as it does just that: holds your last heading until you ask for a change.
I can be hovering with a direct crosswind and the gyro will keep the nose pointed
exactly where I leave it even though the crosswind is pushing the machine
sideways down the flightline. To give an example
of how fast reacting the gyros are these days I will have to tell you about the
servos they use, since that is what is driving any yaw change and is the rate-limiting
factor in response time. Tail servos have become somewhat specialized
these days, to the extent that Futaba sells their gyros with a special servo
as a package. These servos are rated for speed in terms of the time it takes
to sweep through 60 degrees of travel, and this time is on the order of 0.06
to 0.10 seconds.
Let me give you an example of how good some of these are. In the world of rc heli
aerobatics (yes, we can do aerobatics, and it would boggle your mind to see
how agile the helis are compared to fixed wing), one of the more difficult ends
of the hobby is learning backwards flight, both upright and inverted. Anyway,
imagine how difficult it might be to get the chopper flying along at 40 mph
backward and keep the tail centered. Todays gyros and servos handle it well.
The gyro is plugged in between the receiver and the tail servo, so that when I
put in a command from the transmitter, I am actually sending the command for a
specific rate of yaw to the gyro, and it outputs a signal to the servo to give
me the desired yaw. As for price, expect $150-$350, depending on the level
of performance you are looking for. These systems run on 4.8V battery packs,
although some can handle up to 6.0V, and current draw is in the milliamp range.
These are entirely solid state, there is no spinning mass or moving parts per
se.
Feel free to fire away with any questions.
Mark Scott
Elkton, MD USA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>
> I think this is a subject the helo modelers could
> address well. The stabilization system they use is
> very light, takes little power and should be fairly
> competive price wize. Anyone out there got a handle
> on this? Or south of the equator
>
> Kurt S.
Hello Kurt (and everyone else), I am an RC heli pilot and will try to add what
I can to the subject, although I'm not sure what your particular questions are.
Yes, the gyros we use have come a long way and are very precise. Most people in
the heli end of the rc world say that the advent of the gyro and the computerised
transmitter has revolutionized the way we fly our machines. But I digress...
Since I'm not sure what you're looking for, I'll try to give a general overview
of how we use them.
In the world of rc helis, it is pretty much a given that everyone is flying with
a gyro on the tail servo to stabilize the ship in yaw. This makes it incredibly
easier to fly, as without it you would have to make a change in tail rotor
pitch for every change in throttle, every cyclic application, every slight bit
of breeze, etc. With the gyro on the tail, the nose stays locked in and stays
wherever I have it pointed until I command a change in direction by applying
some rudder (antitorque for you helo guys). There's generally two modes in our
gyros: "rate" mode and "heading hold" mode. These involve a different control
algorithm, but the bottom line is that everybody runs in heading hold mode,
as it does just that: holds your last heading until you ask for a change. I can
be hovering with a directcrosswind and the gyro will keep the nose pointed exactly
where I leave it even though the crosswind is pushing the machine sidew
ays down the flightline. To give an example of how fast reacting the gyros are
these days I will have to tell you about the servos they use, since that is what
is driving any yaw change and is the rate-limiting factor in response time.
Tail servos have become somewhat specialized these days, to the extent that
Futaba sells their gyros with a special servo as a package. These servos are rated
for speed in terms of the time it takes to sweep through 60 degrees of travel,
and this time is on the order of 0.06 to 0.10 seconds.
Let me give you an example of how good some of these are. In the world of rc heli
aerobatics (yes, we can do aerobatics, and it would boggle your mind to see
how agile the helis are compared to fixed wing), one of the more difficult ends
of the hobby is learning backwards flight, both upright and inverted. Anyway,
imagine how difficult it might be to get the chopper flying along at 40 mph
backward and keep the tail centered. Todays gyros and servos handle it well.
The gyro is plugged in between the receiver and the tail servo, so that when I
put in a command from the transmitter, I am actually sending the command for a
specific rate of yaw to the gyro, and it outputs a signal to the servo to give
me the desired yaw. Asfor price, expect $150-$350, depending on the level of
performance you are looking for. These systems run on 4.8V battery packs, although
some can handle up to 6.0V, and current draw is in the milliamp range. These
are entirely solid state, there is no spinning mass or moving parts per se.
Feel free to fire away with any questions.
Mark Scott
Elkton, MD USA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: kurt schrader smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <SMOKEY_BEAR_40220@YAHOO.COM>
I think this is a subject the helo modelers could
address well. The stabilization system they use is
very light, takes little power and should be fairly
competive price wize. Anyone out there got a handle
on this? Or south of the equator
Kurt S.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose" <toolowterrain@gmail.com>
Lynn,
That was Brian Peck. He's a U2 driver at Beale. He's being deployed to the
sandbox in a couple of months and I bought his Fox a few weeks ago. Brian's
a good guy and I wish him the best of luck on deployment.
The plane is a Series 5 with a Continental IO-240. It really goes!! It now
resides near Ft Worth, TX.
Len Shorethose
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Lincoln, CA, eh, Lowell....seems like I know of a guy who until
> recently kept his Kitfox at Lincoln...let me think...what the heck was
> his name? : )
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2006, at 07:50 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> When N96KL flew for the first time, I borrowed a hangar at Lincoln,
>> CA for
>> a couple of days. The owner was building a Series 5 and was currently
>> a U-2
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
And don't forget Bill Willyard, Richard...oops, Richard is still
building...Alan Blind in Benton Harbor, and there's a couple more that
I saw in Oshkosh last year, if I can find where I wrote their tail
numbers/locations down...gotta be on a scrap of paper somewhere amongst
the crap I brought back from the Big "O" ...: )
Lynn
do not archive
On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 07:46 AM, Fox5flyer wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
> <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Hey guys. Between myself, Lynn, Marco, and Fred, we have a squadron!
> Lets
> come up with a central point where we can meet. Also, there are other
> Foxes
> here in MI, one at Pinconning and another at Traverse City area, but
> no on
> the list so I don't know how to get hold of them.
> Deke
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Hey Bill...long time, no see...dial up 3NP on your GPS, then go 2.4 NM
on a 137 magnetic heading, and you'll be at the field where my plane
lives... geez, it almost sounds like I know what I'm talking
about....that can be scary : )
Lynn
do not archive
On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 07:47 AM, wwillyard@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: wwillyard@aol.com
>
> It's about time we have a Michigan Kitfox fly-in. I'm ready!
>
> Bill W.
> Classic IV
> do not archive
>
>> Huzzah Lynn! Looking forward to seeing you and all the other Michigan
>> Kitfoxes at the Michigan Kitfox fly-in (date and place TBA
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
> Lowel > "Hey, I ve driven the chase car lots of times get in!
>
Lynn - Goose bumps still there?
Mine rose the first time I took a ride in a model IV on floats !
Congratulations Lynn! I've got a sun roof and video gear. Let me know if you'd
like a driver and capture some exciting video or photos. It would be a treat for
me too... I'm only about an hour away. Let me know.
do not archive
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=25256#25256
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Lift strut ends. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Graeme,
IMHO, if I had a rod end break I'd have the ends of
the lift struts die penetrant or magnaflux
inspected. There's an AN fitting rosette welded into
the ends of the lift struts (that the rod ends thread
onto) and that end of the lift struts are the weak
points of the support structure.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "QSS" <msm@byterocky.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Lift strut ends.
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "QSS"
<msm@byterocky.net>
>
>
>Hi Guys, I thought it might be a good idea to
replace the lift strut
>ends (not sure what you call them but they screw in
at the wing end of
>the lift strut and attach on the under surface). One
broke on impact but
>the other 3 appear to be OK but as they were placed
under high loadings
>it would be wise to replace them all. Can someone
tell me what their
>called and who I order them through please. Thanks
in advance.
>
>Regards
>Graeme
>
>
>--
>29/03/2006
>
>
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
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======
Admin.
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "COZIK,KEVIN" <kcozik@cablespeed.com>
Congrats Lynn,
I'm in the Lansing area with a 6 on czech floats and there
are 2 more in the Mason area (TEW). Just let me know when
and where and we'll be there!
Kevin
Do Not Archive
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:52:34 -0500
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
><lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> And don't forget Bill Willyard, Richard...oops, Richard
>is still
> building...Alan Blind in Benton Harbor, and there's a
>couple more that
> I saw in Oshkosh last year, if I can find where I wrote
>their tail
> numbers/locations down...gotta be on a scrap of paper
>somewhere amongst
> the crap I brought back from the Big "O" ...: )
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
> On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 07:46 AM, Fox5flyer
>wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
>> <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>>
>> Hey guys. Between myself, Lynn, Marco, and Fred, we
>>have a squadron!
>> Lets
>> come up with a central point where we can meet. Also,
>>there are other
>> Foxes
>> here in MI, one at Pinconning and another at Traverse
>>City area, but
>> no on
>> the list so I don't know how to get hold of them.
>> Deke
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
>
>
>
>
>page,
>Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | sound proofing a model 4 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Hi All,
My 582 powered model 4 is awful noisy in the cockpit! So bad it even transmits
over my radio and my intercom is always activated because of the noise level!!
Anyone have any solutions to remedy this .,ie; What about alumanized bubble
wrap or rubberized carpet glued to the inside of the boot cowl and firewall!(
I don't think the stock firwall cover does much sound deadening!!
Thanks
Gil Levesque
C-IGVL
---------------------------------
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: alnanarthur <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
Hi All,
I have been Googling around a bit, and I believe the the use of the
word "gyro" is being misused for these devices.
It appears to me that they use micro-accelerometers to sense
acceleration, then integrate to get rate, then integrate again to
get position. If you use a three axis version of this you can
"almost" simulate the action of a gyro.
Copied from the following website: http://www.xbow.com/
General_info/gyro_guide.htm#background
The Crossbow Solid-State Gyro
Crossbow has been developing and selling low cost solid-state gyros
that measure Roll, Pitch, and Heading using MEMS technology in
commercial, industrial and aerospace markets since 1998. The Crossbow
Solid State Gyro, known in our product lingo as an Attitude-Heading
Reference System, or AHRS, uses a 3-axis accelerometer and a 3-axis
rate sensor to make a complete measurement of the dynamics of your
system. The addition of a 3-axis magnetometer inside the Crossbow
AHRS allows it to make a true measurement of magnetic heading without
an external flux valve. The Crossbow AHRS is a solid-state equivalent
of a vertical gyro/artificial horizon display combined with a
directional gyro and flux valve. The Crossbow AHRS units are low
power (< 0.3A), reliable (> 20,000 hr MTBF) and accurate (better than
2 degrees in roll and pitch). The AHRS400CC, shown in figure 2, is
ideal for driving the AI and DG displays in uncertified applications.
It is a standard in the guidance and control of unmanned aircraft,
and has flown in numerous aircraft under varied conditions.
On Mar 30, 2006, at 3:27 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>> From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com]
>> I think this is a subject the helo modelers could
>> address well. The stabilization system they use is
>> very light, takes little power and should be fairly
>> competive price wize.
>
> I have a hunch that this is what's happening with the TruTrak,
> Kurt. I think their indicator uses the same solid state gyro as the
> helo modeler guys. Which makes sense since TruTrak is offering a
> cheap non-certified autopilot system.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> PS: How's your Kitfox flying coming along?
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | 582 throttle cables |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Hi All,
Anyone know a good source for 582 throttle cables ? Has any one replaced the
original separate cables with a single cable from the bellcrank to a 3 way splitter?
Thanks
Gil Levesque
C-IGVL
---------------------------------
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Speedster wingtips |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Hi All,
I would like to make a set of removable Speedster wing tips (have droops now)
using the glass over foam method! Could someone give me measurements for the
length from inboard to tip and what the angle from undersurface to top surface
is? And of course any pointers for foam and glass construction!
Thanks
Gil Levesque
C-I GVL
---------------------------------
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: sound proofing a model 4 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Gill,
I assume you mean outside noise and not electrical
interference.
What muffler are you using and where does the exaust
exit compared to your cockpit?
How is your vibration level?
Is it engine noise, prop noise, wind noise, or all the
above?
Soundproofing is always a problem. Initially I was
going to make my plane as quiet as I could, until I
found out what it would weigh! In many cases you need
weight to dampen sound, so right off you have a
conflict.
Instead of starting there, I would suggest using a
headset hooked to your intercom to find the loudest
sources and attack them first. If you can use just a
microphone, it will be better.
Start on the ground with the plane tied down and
running. Use the free headset microphone by moving it
around the cockpit to locate firewall sound leaks,
drumming, etc and listen on your other headset. Check
everywhere in the cockpit with the doors closed.
Windscreen, cowl sides, floor, behind the panel...
When you find specific areas, you can consentrate on
sealing them off or padding them as necessary.
Aircraft Spruce has quite a lot of products for this.
You can buy from them, or just look at the product and
find a local substute, but be careful of flamable and
toxic materials.
When you have addressed the problems on the ground,
test while flying. You have to have someone flying
while someone else is doing the sound hunting. It
gets a bit crouded, but that is the best way.
Thin windscreens and door panels are a source that
takes thickness and weight to fix.` I left my doors
thin.
I have a padded firewall with a tight fit to the cowl.
The tight fit helped a lot. I also added insolation
under the floor where the exhaust exits. In my case,
it is fine in cruise, and only a problem now at high
power. I turned the squelch up, but could use a
little more noise reduction.
For my exhaust, I added about a foot square of SS mesh
screen rolled up and fastened into the exhaust to
dampen the engine pop. It is a 2" exhaust pipe, so it
can handle the mesh along the walls. Very light
weight and not restricting, but it helps. Kinda like
a 6 oz glasspack muffler.
If approached this way, you might be able to reduce
the noise enough without adding too much weight.
Hope that helps.
Kurt S.
--- Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> My 582 powered model 4 is awful noisy in the
> cockpit! So bad it even transmits over my radio and
> my intercom is always activated because of the noise
> level!! Anyone have any solutions to remedy this
> .,ie; What about alumanized bubble wrap or
> rubberized carpet glued to the inside of the boot
> cowl and firewall!( I don't think the stock firwall
> cover does much sound deadening!!
> Thanks
> Gil
> Levesque
> C-IGVL
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Restoration: Covering and Painting |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Hi KF Guys:
I will be shortly re-covering my Kitfox II. I intend
to use the complete polyfiber process including medium
polyfiber and poly fiber paints.
I have no idea how much fabric, and what products I
should order. Do any of you have this information
readily available or can tell me where to find it?
I understand that there are two different polyfiber
paints: Aerothane and Polytone. Which one do you
recommend? How many gallons should I order of paint,
polyspary, polybrush, etc. for the complete plane
including both the fuselage and the fabric?
Thanks for your patience with this rookie!!!
Jos
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Scooby, Mark Michel and everyone,
That is what I was getting at. The parts are
relatively cheap, can drive an indicator as is, or
thru a big servo, be an autopilot, yaw dampener, or
wing leveler. Not something I would trust IFR, but
something that could get me out of it if I bumbled in.
No problem for night backup and maybe something to
hold the plane in turbulence while you read a map.
Maybe something just right to add stability to those
older model Fox's with the little tails. Easier and
lighter than a refit to a bigger tail.
Michel might be right. TruTrack might be doing just
this???? For a price.....
So Mark, how does that sound to you? Doable?
One of the neatest things I have seen is a Canadian
system that paints a light across the cockpit and
levels it to the horizon. It improved IFR scan by 80%
because the whole cockpit was your periferal horizon
and you scanned the other instruments more easily.
Now I have this lazer picture hangar that draws a
bright red line........ Just an idea. :-)
Kurt S.
--- scooby harrington <scoobytrash@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've been an RC modeler for years ........
....... Interesting possibilities, one
> could assemble a pretty much off the shelf
> auto-pilot with RC parts for under $500.
>
> Scooby
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Probably right about TruTrak Michel.
My Fox Flying is NA since October. Totally unsat
situation. :-(
My nearest entertainment is being currently surrounded
by agents talking about small arms/drug intradiction
and politics as I type this. Really! :-(
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
> I have a hunch that this is what's happening with
> the TruTrak, Kurt. I think their indicator uses the
> same solid state gyro as the helo modeler guys.
> Which makes sense since TruTrak is offering a cheap
> non-certified autopilot system.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> PS: How's your Kitfox flying coming along?
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: sound proofing a model 4 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Kurt,
The noise is mostly engine!
Gil
kurt schrader smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted
by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Gill,
I assume you mean outside noise and not electrical
interference.
What muffler are you using and where does the exaust
exit compared to your cockpit?
How is your vibration level?
Is it engine noise, prop noise, wind noise, or all the
above?
Soundproofing is always a problem. Initially I was
going to make my plane as quiet as I could, until I
found out what it would weigh! In many cases you need
weight to dampen sound, so right off you have a
conflict.
Instead of starting there, I would suggest using a
headset hooked to your intercom to find the loudest
sources and attack them first. If you can use just a
microphone, it will be better.
Start on the ground with the plane tied down and
running. Use the free headset microphone by moving
it
around the cockpit to locate firewall sound leaks,
drumming, etc and listen on your other headset. Check
everywhere in the cockpit with the doors closed.
Windscreen, cowl sides, floor, behind the panel...
When you find specific areas, you can consentrate on
sealing them off or padding them as necessary.
Aircraft Spruce has quite a lot of products for this.
You can buy from them, or just look at the product and
find a local substute, but be careful of flamable and
toxic materials.
When you have addressed the problems on the ground,
test while flying. You have to have someone flying
while someone else is doing the sound hunting. It
gets a bit crouded, but that is the best way.
Thin windscreens and door panels are a source that
takes thickness and weight to fix.` I left my doors
thin.
I have a padded firewall with a tight fit to the cowl.
The tight fit helped a lot. I also added
insolation
under the floor where the exhaust exits. In my case,
it is fine in cruise, and only a problem now at high
power. I turned the squelch up, but could use a
little more noise reduction.
For my exhaust, I added about a foot square of SS mesh
screen rolled up and fastened into the exhaust to
dampen the engine pop. It is a 2" exhaust pipe, so it
can handle the mesh along the walls. Very light
weight and not restricting, but it helps. Kinda like
a 6 oz glasspack muffler.
If approached this way, you might be able to reduce
the noise enough without adding too much weight.
Hope that helps.
Kurt S.
--- Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> My 582 powered model 4 is awful noisy in the
> cockpit! So bad it even transmits over my radio and
> my intercom is always activated because of the noise
> level!! Anyone have any solutions to remedy this
> .,ie; What about
alumanized bubble wrap or
> rubberized carpet glued to the inside of the boot
> cowl and firewall!( I don't think the stock firwall
> cover does much sound deadening!!
> Thanks
> Gil
> Levesque
> C-IGVL
---------------------------------
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Mark,
Wow!
Well written. I didn't know that capability existed!
Thanks,
Randy
Do not archive.
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
mscotter@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: mscotter@comcast.net
Hello Kurt (and everyone else), I am an RC heli pilot and will try to add
what I can to the subject, although I'm not sure what your particular
questions are.
Yes, the gyros we use have come a long way and are very precise. Most
people in the heli end of the rc world say that the advent of the gyro and
the computerised transmitter has revolutionized the way we fly our machines.
But I digress...
Since I'm not sure what you're looking for, I'll try to give a general
overview of how we use them.
In the world of rc helis, it is pretty much a given that everyone is flying
with a gyro on the tail servo to stabilize the ship in yaw. This makes it
incredibly easier to fly, as without it you would have to make a change in
tail rotor pitch for every change in throttle, every cyclic application,
every slight bit of breeze, etc. With the gyro on the tail, the nose stays
locked in and stays wherever I have it pointed until I command a change in
direction by applying some rudder (antitorque for you helo guys). There's
generally two modes in our gyros: "rate" mode and "heading hold" mode.
These involve a different control algorithm, but the bottom line is that
everybody runs in heading hold mode, as it does just that: holds your last
heading until you ask for a change. I can be hovering with a direct
crosswind and the gyro will keep the nose pointed exactly where I leave it
even though the crosswind is pushing the machine sideways down the
flightline. To give an example
of how fast reacting the gyros are these days I will have to tell you about
the servos they use, since that is what is driving any yaw change and is the
rate-limiting factor in response time. Tail servos have become somewhat
specialized these days, to the extent that Futaba sells their gyros with a
special servo as a package. These servos are rated for speed in terms of
the time it takes to sweep through 60 degrees of travel, and this time is on
the order of 0.06 to 0.10 seconds.
Let me give you an example of how good some of these are. In the world of
rc heli aerobatics (yes, we can do aerobatics, and it would boggle your mind
to see how agile the helis are compared to fixed wing), one of the more
difficult ends of the hobby is learning backwards flight, both upright and
inverted. Anyway, imagine how difficult it might be to get the chopper
flying along at 40 mph backward and keep the tail centered. Todays gyros
and servos handle it well.
The gyro is plugged in between the receiver and the tail servo, so that when
I put in a command from the transmitter, I am actually sending the command
for a specific rate of yaw to the gyro, and it outputs a signal to the servo
to give me the desired yaw. As for price, expect $150-$350, depending on
the level of performance you are looking for. These systems run on 4.8V
battery packs, although some can handle up to 6.0V, and current draw is in
the milliamp range. These are entirely solid state, there is no spinning
mass or moving parts per se.
Feel free to fire away with any questions.
Mark Scott
Elkton, MD USA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>
> I think this is a subject the helo modelers could
> address well. The stabilization system they use is
> very light, takes little power and should be fairly
> competive price wize. Anyone out there got a handle
> on this? Or south of the equator
>
> Kurt S.
Hello Kurt (and everyone else), I am an RC heli pilot and will try to add
what I can to the subject, although I'm not sure what your particular
questions are.
Yes, the gyros we use have come a long way and are very precise. Most people
in the heli end of the rc world say that the advent of the gyro and the
computerised transmitter has revolutionized the way we fly our machines. But
I digress...
Since I'm not sure what you're looking for, I'll try to give a general
overview of how we use them.
In the world of rc helis, it is pretty much a given that everyone is flying
with a gyro on the tail servo to stabilize the ship in yaw. This makes it
incredibly easier to fly, as without it you would have to make a change in
tail rotor pitch for every change in throttle, every cyclic application,
every slight bit of breeze, etc. With the gyro on the tail, the nose stays
locked in and stays wherever I have it pointed until I command a change in
direction by applying some rudder (antitorque for you helo guys). There's
generally two modes in our gyros: "rate" mode and "heading hold" mode. These
involve a different control algorithm, but the bottom line is that everybody
runs in heading hold mode, as it does just that: holds your last heading
until you ask for a change. I can be hovering with a directcrosswind and the
gyro will keep the nose pointed exactly where I leave it even though the
crosswind is pushing the machine sidew
ays down the flightline. To give an example of how fast reacting the gyros
are these days I will have to tell you about the servos they use, since that
is what is driving any yaw change and is the rate-limiting factor in
response time. Tail servos have become somewhat specialized these days, to
the extent that Futaba sells their gyros with a special servo as a package.
These servos are rated for speed in terms of the time it takes to sweep
through 60 degrees of travel, and this time is on the order of 0.06 to 0.10
seconds.
Let me give you an example of how good some of these are. In the world of rc
heli aerobatics (yes, we can do aerobatics, and it would boggle your mind to
see how agile the helis are compared to fixed wing), one of the more
difficult ends of the hobby is learning backwards flight, both upright and
inverted. Anyway, imagine how difficult it might be to get the chopper
flying along at 40 mph backward and keep the tail centered. Todays gyros and
servos handle it well.
The gyro is plugged in between the receiver and the tail servo, so that when
I put in a command from the transmitter, I am actually sending the command
for a specific rate of yaw to the gyro, and it outputs a signal to the servo
to give me the desired yaw. Asfor price, expect $150-$350, depending on the
level of performance you are looking for. These systems run on 4.8V battery
packs, although some can handle up to 6.0V, and current draw is in the
milliamp range. These are entirely solid state, there is no spinning mass or
moving parts per se.
Feel free to fire away with any questions.
Mark Scott
Elkton, MD USA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: kurt schrader smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<SMOKEY_BEAR_40220@YAHOO.COM>
I think this is a subject the helo modelers could
address well. The stabilization system they use is
very light, takes little power and should be fairly
competive price wize. Anyone out there got a handle
on this? Or south of the equator
Kurt S.
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Actually Len, I was referring to Duane Rueb, who currently houses his
'fox at Lincoln. He has the same exact set-up as you.
Lynn
do not archive
On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 08:50 AM, Len Shorethose wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose"
> <toolowterrain@gmail.com>
>
> Lynn,
>
> That was Brian Peck. He's a U2 driver at Beale. He's being deployed
> to the
> sandbox in a couple of months and I bought his Fox a few weeks ago.
> Brian's
> a good guy and I wish him the best of luck on deployment.
>
> The plane is a Series 5 with a Continental IO-240. It really goes!!
> It now
> resides near Ft Worth, TX.
>
> Len Shorethose
>
> do not archive
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> Lincoln, CA, eh, Lowell....seems like I know of a guy who until
>> recently kept his Kitfox at Lincoln...let me think...what the heck was
>> his name? : )
>>
>> Lynn
>> do not archive
>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2006, at 07:50 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>>> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>>
>>> When N96KL flew for the first time, I borrowed a hangar at Lincoln,
>>> CA for
>>> a couple of days. The owner was building a Series 5 and was
>>> currently
>>> a U-2
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Goose bumps? Hell yeah...as big as Easter eggs! I was flittin' around
the hangar before the flight like I was gonna take it up (or give
birth), and I'm not ready for that yet....actually I'm ready, but
common sense tells me to wait for a little more instruction on the
tailwheel end of things.
And I will let you know...that'd be fun to have video...and you could
pick up the header tank if you decide to take it.
Lynn
do not archive
On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 09:14 AM, Richard Rabbers wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers"
> <rira1950@yahoo.com>
>
>
>> Lowel > "Hey, I ve driven the chase car lots of times get in!
>>
>
>
> Lynn - Goose bumps still there?
>
> Mine rose the first time I took a ride in a model IV on floats !
>
> Congratulations Lynn! I've got a sun roof and video gear. Let me know
> if you'd like a driver and capture some exciting video or photos. It
> would be a treat for me too... I'm only about an hour away. Let me
> know.
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Richard in SW Michigan
> Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=25256#25256
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I've seen one of the two in Mason at an EAA function there one Saturday
morning at Mason Jewett. Are you old enough to remember Lay Jewett,
drag racer?
I'm about 26.5 nautical miles southeast of TEW, on a heading of about
160 at an un-charted field near 3NP, Napoleon. The field is called
Howland Field by the two hanger-renters that "live" there. It's even
got a sock with the name on it...stop by!
Napoleon is listed in the $100 Hamburger book.
Lynn
do not archive
On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 10:00 AM, COZIK,KEVIN wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "COZIK,KEVIN"
> <kcozik@cablespeed.com>
>
> Congrats Lynn,
> I'm in the Lansing area with a 6 on czech floats and there
> are 2 more in the Mason area (TEW). Just let me know when
> and where and we'll be there!
> Kevin
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:52:34 -0500
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
>> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> And don't forget Bill Willyard, Richard...oops, Richard
>> is still
>> building...Alan Blind in Benton Harbor, and there's a
>> couple more that
>> I saw in Oshkosh last year, if I can find where I wrote
>> their tail
>> numbers/locations down...gotta be on a scrap of paper
>> somewhere amongst
>> the crap I brought back from the Big "O" ...: )
>>
>> Lynn
>> do not archive
>> On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 07:46 AM, Fox5flyer
>> wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
>>> <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>>>
>>> Hey guys. Between myself, Lynn, Marco, and Fred, we
>>> have a squadron!
>>> Lets
>>> come up with a central point where we can meet. Also,
>>> there are other
>>> Foxes
>>> here in MI, one at Pinconning and another at Traverse
>>> City area, but
>>> no on
>>> the list so I don't know how to get hold of them.
>>> Deke
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> page,
>> Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
Lynn Matteson wrote:
> Goose bumps? Hell yeah...as big as Easter eggs! .... I will let you know...that'd
be fun to have video...
Great! Sounds like fun to me.
I'll pack my gear and be ready for your call.
I'll relay my cell# offline.
I don't want that spammer to call me:)
- I got an E-mail this morning from m_yasir_sabri@yahoo.com!
- I sent a note to 'abuse@yahoo.com' hoping they can do something about that guy.
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=25360#25360
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
((((VERY SORRY - I didn't mean to include any link to 'his' address)))
do not archive
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=25368#25368
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: mscotter@comcast.net
Kurt, what type of 'agents' are you referring to and why are you surrounded by
them?
Mark Scott
Elkton, MD USA
Do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>
> Probably right about TruTrak Michel.
>
> My Fox Flying is NA since October. Totally unsat
> situation. :-(
>
> My nearest entertainment is being currently surrounded
> by agents talking about small arms/drug intradiction
> and politics as I type this. Really! :-(
>
> Kurt S.
>
> Do not archive
Kurt, what type of 'agents' are you referring to and why are you surrounded by
them?
Mark Scott
Elkton, MD USA
Do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
From: kurt schrader smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <SMOKEY_BEAR_40220@YAHOO.COM>
Probably right about TruTrak Michel.
My Fox Flying is NA since October. Totally unsat
situation. :-(
My nearest entertainment is being currently surrounded
by agents talking about small arms/drug intradiction
and politics as I type this. Really! :-(
Kurt S.
Do not archive
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Solid State gyros. WAS: Trutrak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: mscotter@comcast.net
Doable? Yeah, certainly. If you wanted a simple singe axis wing-leveler, I would
think you could take one of the big servos on the market and hook it to an
aileron trim tab. The control pulse that is typical of most rc transmitters
is fairly well documented on the web, I bet you could replicate that with a small
electronic circuit. Then you'd have to play with the gain a little to get
the gyro tuned to this 'system' and you should be up and running. I doubt you
even really need that great a gyro - the dynamics of our man-carrying aircraft
are much slower than the smaller rc stuff. I would NOT want to be in an aircraft
that could flip and tumble as fast as my rc aircraft!
I'm kind of surprised nobody else out there has done this already. Anyway, I think
the aileron trim tab idea might also be good because if there was a problem
you could still overpower it and keep control of the aircraft.
Mark Scott
Elkton, MD USA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>
> Hi Scooby, Mark Michel and everyone,
>
> That is what I was getting at. The parts are
> relatively cheap, can drive an indicator as is, or
> thru a big servo, be an autopilot, yaw dampener, or
> wing leveler. Not something I would trust IFR, but
> something that could get me out of it if I bumbled in.
> No problem for night backup and maybe something to
> hold the plane in turbulence while you read a map.
> Maybe something just right to add stability to those
> older model Fox's with the little tails. Easier and
> lighter than a refit to a bigger tail.
>
> Michel might be right. TruTrack might be doing just
> this???? For a price.....
>
> So Mark, how does that sound to you? Doable?
>
Doable? Yeah, certainly. If you wanted a simple singe axis wing-leveler, I would
think you could take one of the big servos on the market and hook it to an aileron
trim tab. The control pulse that is typical of most rc transmitters is
fairly well documented on the web, I bet you could replicate that with a small
electronic circuit. Then you'd have to play with the gain a little to get the
gyro tuned to this 'system' and you should be up and running. I doubt you even
really need that greata gyro - the dynamics of our man-carrying aircraft are
much slower than the smaller rc stuff. I would NOT want to be in an aircraft
that could flip and tumble as fast as my rc aircraft!
I'm kind of surprised nobody else out there has done this already. Anyway, I think
the aileron trim tab idea might also be good because if there was a problem
you could still overpower it and keep control of the aircraft.
Mark Scott
Elkton, MD USA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: kurt schrader smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <SMOKEY_BEAR_40220@YAHOO.COM>
Hi Scooby, Mark Michel and everyone,
That is what I was getting at. The parts are
relatively cheap, can drive an indicator as is, or
thru a big servo, be an autopilot, yaw dampener, or
wing leveler. Not something I would trust IFR, but
something that could get me out of it if I bumbled in.
No problem for night backup and maybe something to
hold the plane in turbulence while you read a map.
Maybe something just right to add stability to those
older model Fox's with the little tails. Easier and
lighter than a refit to a bigger tail.
Michel might be right. TruTra
ck might be doing just
this???? For a price.....
So Mark, how does that sound to you? Doable?
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Restoration: Covering and Painting |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Jose,
Stand by, and I'll look up the figures for you. Ok, the Kitfox requires: 26
yards, 70" wide, and 300 yards of 2" tape. I believe my Model 2 Denney
packing list said 32 yards of fabric in their kit, but that's the light
weight stuff. You might call P-Fiber or Aircraft Spruce to confirm. CPS says
you need 1 roll (?) reinforcing tape, 2 quarts Poly-tak, 2 Gallons Reducer,
3 gallons Poly-Brush, 4 gallons Poly-spray, 4 gallons Major color, and 1
quart trim color. Of course, YMMV.
Why are you using the med weight fabric?
I have some literature from Poly-Fiber, I'll see what it says. Ok, Poly-tone
is satin gloss, fire-retardant, and the standard paint for the Poly-Fiber
process. Aero-Thane is Polyurethane paint that is glossy finish. It is more
expensive, too. No idea how they handle.
Another question for the group: I need to repair/recover some parts of my
Model 2. I know the builder used Poly-brush (and I assume Poly-tak,
Poly-Spray and Aerothane), but I have no idea what fabric he used.
He ordered 32 yds of 1.8 oz Dacron from Denney, and I assume he used it.
Does it matter which brand of fabric I use, as long as I use the same finish
and glue? If I have Ceconite on it now, can I mix Poly-Fiber for the patches
and such, while still using Poly-tak? I think so, but I need to confirm.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. Toro
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Restoration: Covering and Painting
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Hi KF Guys:
I will be shortly re-covering my Kitfox II. I intend
to use the complete polyfiber process including medium
polyfiber and poly fiber paints.
I have no idea how much fabric, and what products I
should order. Do any of you have this information
readily available or can tell me where to find it?
I understand that there are two different polyfiber
paints: Aerothane and Polytone. Which one do you
recommend? How many gallons should I order of paint,
polyspary, polybrush, etc. for the complete plane
including both the fuselage and the fabric?
Thanks for your patience with this rookie!!!
Jos
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Restoration: Covering and Painting |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Sure Bradley. It's all polyester. It's the coatings
that matter.
I'd recommend 1.7/1.8oz as opposed to the heavier
fabric. The heavier adds weight in coatings and is
also more prone to move tubes when heat shrunk.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Restoration: Covering and
Painting
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
<bmwebb@cox.net>
>
>Jose,
>Stand by, and I'll look up the figures for you. Ok,
the Kitfox requires: 26
>yards, 70" wide, and 300 yards of 2" tape. I believe
my Model 2 Denney
>packing list said 32 yards of fabric in their kit,
but that's the light
>weight stuff. You might call P-Fiber or Aircraft
Spruce to confirm. CPS says
>you need 1 roll (?) reinforcing tape, 2 quarts Poly-
tak, 2 Gallons Reducer,
>3 gallons Poly-Brush, 4 gallons Poly-spray, 4
gallons Major color, and 1
>quart trim color. Of course, YMMV.
>
>Why are you using the med weight fabric?
>
>I have some literature from Poly-Fiber, I'll see
what it says. Ok, Poly-tone
>is satin gloss, fire-retardant, and the standard
paint for the Poly-Fiber
>process. Aero-Thane is Polyurethane paint that is
glossy finish. It is more
>expensive, too. No idea how they handle.
>
>Another question for the group: I need to
repair/recover some parts of my
>Model 2. I know the builder used Poly-brush (and I
assume Poly-tak,
>Poly-Spray and Aerothane), but I have no idea what
fabric he used.
>
>He ordered 32 yds of 1.8 oz Dacron from Denney, and
I assume he used it.
>Does it matter which brand of fabric I use, as long
as I use the same finish
>and glue? If I have Ceconite on it now, can I mix
Poly-Fiber for the patches
>and such, while still using Poly-tak? I think so,
but I need to confirm.
>
>Bradley
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Jose M. Toro
>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:05 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Restoration: Covering and
Painting
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
<jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi KF Guys:
>
>I will be shortly re-covering my Kitfox II. I intend
>to use the complete polyfiber process including
medium
>polyfiber and poly fiber paints.
>
>I have no idea how much fabric, and what products I
>should order. Do any of you have this information
>readily available or can tell me where to find it?
>
>I understand that there are two different polyfiber
>paints: Aerothane and Polytone. Which one do you
>recommend? How many gallons should I order of paint,
>polyspary, polybrush, etc. for the complete plane
>including both the fuselage and the fabric?
>
>Thanks for your patience with this rookie!!!
>
>Jos
>
>Jose M. Toro, P.E.
>Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
>"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
======================================================
======
Admin.
>_-
======================================================
======
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I'll relay my cell# offline.
I don't want that spammer to call me:)
- I got an E-mail this morning from m_yasir
A question for you computer jockeys: How come this Sabri's emails stay in
my personal box? I have a rule in my computer that moves all
the Kitfox List mail to a separate box. (It keeps my wife happier...) But
even though kitfox-list is in the title of his emails they don't get moved
to the fox file. ???
I think I have gotten 5 from him so far.
Randy
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Vixen gross weight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
Have an older Vixen (series 5) kit...have read that they originally
marketed with a gross weight of 1400 lbs. but were later upgraded to a
1550. What was different structurally (if anything) between the 2?
Jeremy Casey
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
I'll come to that! Jeff Classic IV Columbus, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: <wwillyard@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: wwillyard@aol.com
>
> It's about time we have a Michigan Kitfox fly-in. I'm ready!
>
> Bill W.
> Classic IV
> do not archive
>
>> Huzzah Lynn! Looking forward to seeing you and all the other Michigan
>> Kitfoxes at the Michigan Kitfox fly-in (date and place TBA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I've gotten three from y-a-s-i-r...all with my subject "Another 'fox
flies" , then with: (verification) after the subject. I've deleted them
all.
Lynn
do not archive
On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 02:26 PM, Richard Rabbers wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers"
> <rira1950@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> Goose bumps? Hell yeah...as big as Easter eggs! .... I will let you
>> know...that'd be fun to have video...
>
>
> Great! Sounds like fun to me.
> I'll pack my gear and be ready for your call.
> I'll relay my cell# offline.
>
> I don't want that spammer to call me:)
> - I got an E-mail this morning from m_yasir_sabri@yahoo.com!
> - I sent a note to 'abuse@yahoo.com' hoping they can do something
> about that guy.
>
> --------
> Richard in SW Michigan
> Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=25360#25360
>
>
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speedster wingtips |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Gil, I will try to help here.
Mine are about 9-1/2 inches, but as I recall, they are about 3" shorter than
normal as I was planning on putting the airplane in the garage and needed
the 3" for fit there. Skystar, at the time said the actual dimension was
optional as they had one dimension on a drawing and another in the text of
the manual.
The top of the tip is nearly flat with the top surface of the wing and the
end radius looks to be about a half inch - about an inch thick - at the tip
(near the leading edge). The bottom surface then goes from the edge radius
to the bottom surface of the wing in a nearly straight line and radiuses to
the botom wing surface with a gentle curve.
Now the 1/2" radius at the outboard edge starts with that dimension near the
leading edge and then tapers down to the thickness of the trailing edge in a
gradual uniform manner.
Hope this helps.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Levesque" <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:03 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Speedster wingtips
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
>
> Hi All,
> I would like to make a set of removable Speedster wing tips (have droops
> now) using the glass over foam method! Could someone give me measurements
> for the length from inboard to tip and what the angle from undersurface to
> top surface is? And of course any pointers for foam and glass
> construction!
> Thanks
> Gil Levesque
> C-I GVL
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
If Duane is monitering the list, drop a note, I would like to talk.
Lowell
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Actually Len, I was referring to Duane Rueb, who currently houses his
> 'fox at Lincoln. He has the same exact set-up as you.
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
> On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 08:50 AM, Len Shorethose wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose"
>> <toolowterrain@gmail.com>
>>
>> Lynn,
>>
>> That was Brian Peck. He's a U2 driver at Beale. He's being deployed
>> to the
>> sandbox in a couple of months and I bought his Fox a few weeks ago.
>> Brian's
>> a good guy and I wish him the best of luck on deployment.
>>
>> The plane is a Series 5 with a Continental IO-240. It really goes!!
>> It now
>> resides near Ft Worth, TX.
>>
>> Len Shorethose
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>
>>> Lincoln, CA, eh, Lowell....seems like I know of a guy who until
>>> recently kept his Kitfox at Lincoln...let me think...what the heck was
>>> his name? : )
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>> do not archive
>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2006, at 07:50 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>>>> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>>>
>>>> When N96KL flew for the first time, I borrowed a hangar at Lincoln,
>>>> CA for
>>>> a couple of days. The owner was building a Series 5 and was
>>>> currently
>>>> a U-2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Oh, oh, guys...it's an Ohio State'r ....just kidding, Jeff...I'm
actually taking flight instruction from an Ohio State fan.
Interestingly, he told me a while back I'd probably have been soloed by
now if I wore red and grey. : )
Hey guys, sounds like we got us a squadron!
Now, my plane is done up in Dale Earnhardt colors...sort of...can we
not have any Jeff Gordon planes show up.....please?
Lynn
so not archive
On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 05:59 PM, jeff puls wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
>
> I'll come to that! Jeff Classic IV Columbus, Ohio
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <wwillyard@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 4:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: wwillyard@aol.com
>>
>> It's about time we have a Michigan Kitfox fly-in. I'm ready!
>>
>> Bill W.
>> Classic IV
>> do not archive
>>
>>> Huzzah Lynn! Looking forward to seeing you and all the other Michigan
>>> Kitfoxes at the Michigan Kitfox fly-in (date and place TBA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 42
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I have been flying a bit with the doors open and am curious of the
experienced others have had. I replaced the gas struts as I was haveing
some vibration - flutter in the pilot side door. The new gas struts solved
the problem with the door flutter.
As I recall, in previous posts on the subject, some said they open the doors
at a reduced speed and then will accellerate after opening to cruise. Am I
correct in this. And if so what speeds for opening and what top speeds have
been flown with open doors.
Has anyone experienced any pucker factor moments while flying this way and
if so what was the situation.
The main purpose for flying with the open doors is to get some photos
without having to contend with the lexan side windows.
Lowell
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: 582 throttle cables |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Gil,
Send me the lengths and I can make you up a set. We have a division orf our
compant that does only U/L - light plane cables.
Bob R
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Levesque" <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:55 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 throttle cables
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Anyone know a good source for 582 throttle cables ? Has any one
replaced the original separate cables with a single cable from the bellcrank
to a 3 way splitter?
> Thanks
> Gil Levesque
> C-IGVL
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Vixen gross weight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Jeremy,
I am not sure about every difference, but I know that one difference is the
fastners on the upper lift strut to spar bracket attach points. for the 1550
GW, you have to have the following fastners for each of these 4 locations:
NAS 1104-16 bolt, AN960-16 flat washers (these are not an issue) for spacers
and MS21042-4 Nut. The bolt can be identified where it has a dish shaped
depression on the head and the AN bolt does not. Again, I am not sure if
there are any other differences; but, if your upper lift strut bolts break
because they are not strong enough for the stress, there is no point in any
of us naming you in our wills <grin>.
Be sure you find out if there are any other differences.
Dave S
St Paul
do not archive
On Thursday 30 March 2006 4:33 pm, Jeremy Casey wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
>
> Have an older Vixen (series 5) kit...have read that they originally
> marketed with a gross weight of 1400 lbs. but were later upgraded to a
> 1550. What was different structurally (if anything) between the 2?
>
> Jeremy Casey
>
>
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Restoration: Covering and Painting |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Thanks Ted. That's what I thought, but not too sure.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flier
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Restoration: Covering and Painting
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Sure Bradley. It's all polyester. It's the coatings
that matter.
I'd recommend 1.7/1.8oz as opposed to the heavier
fabric. The heavier adds weight in coatings and is
also more prone to move tubes when heat shrunk.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Restoration: Covering and
Painting
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
<bmwebb@cox.net>
>
>Jose,
>Stand by, and I'll look up the figures for you. Ok,
the Kitfox requires: 26
>yards, 70" wide, and 300 yards of 2" tape. I believe
my Model 2 Denney
>packing list said 32 yards of fabric in their kit,
but that's the light
>weight stuff. You might call P-Fiber or Aircraft
Spruce to confirm. CPS says
>you need 1 roll (?) reinforcing tape, 2 quarts Poly-
tak, 2 Gallons Reducer,
>3 gallons Poly-Brush, 4 gallons Poly-spray, 4
gallons Major color, and 1
>quart trim color. Of course, YMMV.
>
>Why are you using the med weight fabric?
>
>I have some literature from Poly-Fiber, I'll see
what it says. Ok, Poly-tone
>is satin gloss, fire-retardant, and the standard
paint for the Poly-Fiber
>process. Aero-Thane is Polyurethane paint that is
glossy finish. It is more
>expensive, too. No idea how they handle.
>
>Another question for the group: I need to
repair/recover some parts of my
>Model 2. I know the builder used Poly-brush (and I
assume Poly-tak,
>Poly-Spray and Aerothane), but I have no idea what
fabric he used.
>
>He ordered 32 yds of 1.8 oz Dacron from Denney, and
I assume he used it.
>Does it matter which brand of fabric I use, as long
as I use the same finish
>and glue? If I have Ceconite on it now, can I mix
Poly-Fiber for the patches
>and such, while still using Poly-tak? I think so,
but I need to confirm.
>
>Bradley
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Jose M. Toro
>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:05 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Restoration: Covering and
Painting
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
<jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi KF Guys:
>
>I will be shortly re-covering my Kitfox II. I intend
>to use the complete polyfiber process including
medium
>polyfiber and poly fiber paints.
>
>I have no idea how much fabric, and what products I
>should order. Do any of you have this information
>readily available or can tell me where to find it?
>
>I understand that there are two different polyfiber
>paints: Aerothane and Polytone. Which one do you
>recommend? How many gallons should I order of paint,
>polyspary, polybrush, etc. for the complete plane
>including both the fuselage and the fabric?
>
>Thanks for your patience with this rookie!!!
>
>Jos
>
>Jose M. Toro, P.E.
>Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
>"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
======================================================
======
Admin.
>_-
======================================================
======
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>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Vixen gross weight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
the wing spars ( tubes ) are a few thousandths thicker and i wish that i
could remember the actual difference,, I will try to find out in my info
pack from when i purchased mine. Just after I purchased my kit they came out
with the increased weight and i was able to get the differences with my
series V although i still list the gross weight as 1400
Steve
series V
N642SE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave and
Diane
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vixen gross weight
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Jeremy,
I am not sure about every difference, but I know that one difference is the
fastners on the upper lift strut to spar bracket attach points. for the 1550
GW, you have to have the following fastners for each of these 4 locations:
NAS 1104-16 bolt, AN960-16 flat washers (these are not an issue) for spacers
and MS21042-4 Nut. The bolt can be identified where it has a dish shaped
depression on the head and the AN bolt does not. Again, I am not sure if
there are any other differences; but, if your upper lift strut bolts break
because they are not strong enough for the stress, there is no point in any
of us naming you in our wills <grin>.
Be sure you find out if there are any other differences.
Dave S
St Paul
do not archive
On Thursday 30 March 2006 4:33 pm, Jeremy Casey wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
>
> Have an older Vixen (series 5) kit...have read that they originally
> marketed with a gross weight of 1400 lbs. but were later upgraded to a
> 1550. What was different structurally (if anything) between the 2?
>
> Jeremy Casey
>
>
Message 47
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
Mike Gibbs might be able to tell you of a pucker factor that happened w/ the doors
open...Mike isn't that how you were flying? Of course a few other factors
were involved ;>)
Dan B
Mesa
Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
I have been flying a bit with the doors open and am curious of the
experienced others have had. I replaced the gas struts as I was haveing
some vibration - flutter in the pilot side door. The new gas struts solved
the problem with the door flutter.
As I recall, in previous posts on the subject, some said they open the doors
at a reduced speed and then will accellerate after opening to cruise. Am I
correct in this. And if so what speeds for opening and what top speeds have
been flown with open doors.
Has anyone experienced any pucker factor moments while flying this way and
if so what was the situation.
The main purpose for flying with the open doors is to get some photos
without having to contend with the lexan side windows.
Lowell
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Vixen gross weight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
.058 vs .065 Although there were some other differences as well.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of eccles
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Vixen gross weight
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
the wing spars ( tubes ) are a few thousandths thicker and i wish that i
could remember the actual difference,, I will try to find out in my info
pack from when i purchased mine. Just after I purchased my kit they came out
with the increased weight and i was able to get the differences with my
series V although i still list the gross weight as 1400
Steve
series V
N642SE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave and
Diane
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vixen gross weight
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Jeremy,
I am not sure about every difference, but I know that one difference is the
fastners on the upper lift strut to spar bracket attach points. for the 1550
GW, you have to have the following fastners for each of these 4 locations:
NAS 1104-16 bolt, AN960-16 flat washers (these are not an issue) for spacers
and MS21042-4 Nut. The bolt can be identified where it has a dish shaped
depression on the head and the AN bolt does not. Again, I am not sure if
there are any other differences; but, if your upper lift strut bolts break
because they are not strong enough for the stress, there is no point in any
of us naming you in our wills <grin>.
Be sure you find out if there are any other differences.
Dave S
St Paul
do not archive
On Thursday 30 March 2006 4:33 pm, Jeremy Casey wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
>
> Have an older Vixen (series 5) kit...have read that they originally
> marketed with a gross weight of 1400 lbs. but were later upgraded to a
> 1550. What was different structurally (if anything) between the 2?
>
> Jeremy Casey
>
>
--
--
Message 49
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
We fly with the doors open a lot in our 5. The problems I have had is
that it will empty any pockets on the open door, and even remove the
upholstery if it is not very well secured. I ended up using a few loops
of safety wire on the front to keep from having to look for the panel
again. It will blow items around from behind like bags and maps. On our
planes one door open does not seem to have much of any effect on
handling or landing, two doors open does not seem to affect handling,
but watch out on landing as it may drop out from under you before you
expect it. We were having a spot landing contest in a friends pasture
with the local EAA one hot day and had both doors open to keep cool and
I missed the spot by about 150 feet. It really caught me looking. I
played with it some more to see if I was just taking a nap instead of
flying, but it paid off in the flair every time I had both doors open.
We try and keep below 80 with the doors open, but have gone faster. Open
doors are great fun, good for pictures and a real thrill to people on
rides.
Lowell Fitt wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I have been flying a bit with the doors open and am curious of the
>experienced others have had. I replaced the gas struts as I was haveing
>some vibration - flutter in the pilot side door. The new gas struts solved
>the problem with the door flutter.
>
>As I recall, in previous posts on the subject, some said they open the doors
>at a reduced speed and then will accellerate after opening to cruise. Am I
>correct in this. And if so what speeds for opening and what top speeds have
>been flown with open doors.
>
>Has anyone experienced any pucker factor moments while flying this way and
>if so what was the situation.
>
>The main purpose for flying with the open doors is to get some photos
>without having to contend with the lexan side windows.
>
>Lowell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 50
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
I responded to this guy and to day I had a spy wear alert I dont know if it
is related but if it is I have a neet trick involving a pice of garden
hose and a pice of barbed wire do not archive
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Re: 582 throttle cables |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
I like the kitfox one beter but have had no real problem with the spliters
leaf can make any lingth also mal
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another 'fox flies! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kevin Cozik" <Kcozik@cablespeed.com>
Lynn
I guess I'm not old enough to remember Mr. Jewett. I know napoleon well
because of the skydive operation there. I'll have to stop in at Howland
field and look you up.
I had a IV on aerocet amphibs at Mason Jewett for a few years.
Kevin
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I've seen one of the two in Mason at an EAA function there one Saturday
> morning at Mason Jewett. Are you old enough to remember Lay Jewett,
> drag racer?
> I'm about 26.5 nautical miles southeast of TEW, on a heading of about
> 160 at an un-charted field near 3NP, Napoleon. The field is called
> Howland Field by the two hanger-renters that "live" there. It's even
> got a sock with the name on it...stop by!
> Napoleon is listed in the $100 Hamburger book.
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
> On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 10:00 AM, COZIK,KEVIN wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "COZIK,KEVIN"
>> <kcozik@cablespeed.com>
>>
>> Congrats Lynn,
>> I'm in the Lansing area with a 6 on czech floats and there
>> are 2 more in the Mason area (TEW). Just let me know when
>> and where and we'll be there!
>> Kevin
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:52:34 -0500
>> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
>>> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>
>>> And don't forget Bill Willyard, Richard...oops, Richard
>>> is still
>>> building...Alan Blind in Benton Harbor, and there's a
>>> couple more that
>>> I saw in Oshkosh last year, if I can find where I wrote
>>> their tail
>>> numbers/locations down...gotta be on a scrap of paper
>>> somewhere amongst
>>> the crap I brought back from the Big "O" ...: )
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>> do not archive
>>> On Thursday, March 30, 2006, at 07:46 AM, Fox5flyer
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
>>>> <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>>>>
>>>> Hey guys. Between myself, Lynn, Marco, and Fred, we
>>>> have a squadron!
>>>> Lets
>>>> come up with a central point where we can meet. Also,
>>>> there are other
>>>> Foxes
>>>> here in MI, one at Pinconning and another at Traverse
>>>> City area, but
>>>> no on
>>>> the list so I don't know how to get hold of them.
>>>> Deke
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:04 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'fox flies!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> page,
>>> Admin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 53
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
The very first ride I took in a Kitfox was in a Model 5 with both doors
removed. It was at the airport in Cushing, OK and was set up by Earl Downs,
twin brother of Ed. The slip stream rushing by my right shoulder was so
intense; I was worried my glasses would blow off. The pilot, his name
escapes me now, assured me they would not. Any how you talk about an
exciting ride. The plane wasn't a shining example either. On landing his
tail wheel broke and he was a little embarrassed. Any way, I was sold on the
plane, ordered my kit 2 months later.
Roger Mac
N619RM
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan & Linda
Daniels
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Doors open
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
We fly with the doors open a lot in our 5. The problems I have had is
that it will empty any pockets on the open door, and even remove the
upholstery if it is not very well secured. I ended up using a few loops
of safety wire on the front to keep from having to look for the panel
again. It will blow items around from behind like bags and maps. On our
planes one door open does not seem to have much of any effect on
handling or landing, two doors open does not seem to affect handling,
but watch out on landing as it may drop out from under you before you
expect it. We were having a spot landing contest in a friends pasture
with the local EAA one hot day and had both doors open to keep cool and
I missed the spot by about 150 feet. It really caught me looking. I
played with it some more to see if I was just taking a nap instead of
flying, but it paid off in the flair every time I had both doors open.
We try and keep below 80 with the doors open, but have gone faster. Open
doors are great fun, good for pictures and a real thrill to people on
rides.
Lowell Fitt wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I have been flying a bit with the doors open and am curious of the
>experienced others have had. I replaced the gas struts as I was haveing
>some vibration - flutter in the pilot side door. The new gas struts solved
>the problem with the door flutter.
>
>As I recall, in previous posts on the subject, some said they open the
doors
>at a reduced speed and then will accellerate after opening to cruise. Am I
>correct in this. And if so what speeds for opening and what top speeds have
>been flown with open doors.
>
>Has anyone experienced any pucker factor moments while flying this way and
>if so what was the situation.
>
>The main purpose for flying with the open doors is to get some photos
>without having to contend with the lexan side windows.
>
>Lowell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 54
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Randy, Sorry about the spammer idiot. We will squash him soon.
To fix the rule, just modify it so that it moves KF list messages based on
the FROM address of the list, which is
"owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com"
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spammer
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I'll relay my cell# offline.
I don't want that spammer to call me:)
- I got an E-mail this morning from m_yasir
A question for you computer jockeys: How come this Sabri's emails stay in
my personal box? I have a rule in my computer that moves all
the Kitfox List mail to a separate box. (It keeps my wife happier...) But
even though kitfox-list is in the title of his emails they don't get moved
to the fox file. ???
I think I have gotten 5 from him so far.
Randy
Message 55
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Matt Dralle, our list host, just ran an "email weasel" to see if that would
get rid of Mr. Sabir. Hopefully that will do it. When you get the weasel
email, just read it, but do NOT RESPOND to it. It works by relying on
automatic responses, such as has been happening with Yasir's email.
Thanks Matt.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Pearsall
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Spammer
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Randy, Sorry about the spammer idiot. We will squash him soon.
To fix the rule, just modify it so that it moves KF list messages based on
the FROM address of the list, which is
"owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com"
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spammer
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I'll relay my cell# offline.
I don't want that spammer to call me:)
- I got an E-mail this morning from m_yasir
A question for you computer jockeys: How come this Sabri's emails stay in
my personal box? I have a rule in my computer that moves all
the Kitfox List mail to a separate box. (It keeps my wife happier...) But
even though kitfox-list is in the title of his emails they don't get moved
to the fox file. ???
I think I have gotten 5 from him so far.
Randy
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Vixen gross weight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Thomas Lee <thomasleekf@comcast.net>
I bought the Vixen wing kit in 1994. The wing span is 29 ft in the
Short Wing, 1200 lb gross. After adding 1.5 ft interchangeable long
tip to each side, the wing span becomes 32 ft, 1400 lb gross. I am a
small pilot and I always use the short wing for easy landing.
thomas. Vixen 912UL , 451 hrs.
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
>
>Have an older Vixen (series 5) kit...have read that they originally
>marketed with a gross weight of 1400 lbs. but were later upgraded to a
>1550. What was different structurally (if anything) between the 2?
>
>Jeremy Casey
>
>
>
>
Message 57
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Randy Daughenbaugh [rjdaugh@rapidnet.com]
> I don't want that spammer to call me:)
> - I got an E-mail this morning from m_yasir
If you think you have a problem, Randy, consider this:
This morning, I had about 50 extra emails in my mailbox, all non-delivery messages
from a spammer that used my email as return address! It is not the first time
it happens and, unfortunately, not the last.
Why is that? Well, when you spam several thousands people with your BS, you're
bound to get some that are returned because the address doesn't exist anymore.
And that fills your own mailbox. How to prevent that? Easy, give as returning
address another one, any one!
Because I have had the same email address since 1994 and that I published it on
my Web page (I am an outward guy), nearly every spam list in the world has it.
... and next week, we'll talk about those who pretend to be your online banker,
trying to get you to give your bank account, card number, etc. Man, it's an ugly
world out there! :-(
Cheers,
Michel
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