Kitfox-List Digest Archive

Sun 05/07/06


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:27 AM - HTD belt ension (John Anderson)
     2. 07:16 AM - Bing 54 Choke adjustment (Jim Burke)
     3. 09:35 AM - Re: altimeter (kurt schrader)
     4. 09:39 AM - Re: Tundra tyres. (kurt schrader)
     5. 10:05 AM - Re: altimeter (Larry Huntley)
     6. 10:05 AM - Re: Poor-man's Dyno (kurt schrader)
     7. 10:09 AM - Re: VW redrive thrust results (kurt schrader)
     8. 12:08 PM - FW: KITFOX PARTS AND OTHER AIRCRAFT PARTS FOR SALE UPDATE: (wingsdown)
     9. 01:18 PM - Re: Tundra tyres. (Michel Verheughe)
    10. 01:42 PM - Re:Poor-man's Dyno (clemwehner)
    11. 01:50 PM - Re: altimeter (Michel Verheughe)
    12. 05:10 PM - Re: Re:Poor-man's Dyno (Lowell Fitt)
    13. 05:27 PM - Re: Tundra tyres. (Rex)
    14. 06:51 PM - Re:Poor-man's Dyno (randy bortree)
    15. 07:10 PM - Re:Poor-man's Dyno (ron schick)
    16. 09:38 PM - kitfox V for sale (Bob Holiday)
    17. 11:56 PM - Re: kitfox V for sale (kurt schrader)
    18. 11:56 PM - Re: Metric (was altimeter) (kurt schrader)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:27:39 AM PST US
    From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
    Subject: HTD belt ension
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com> HTD PSRU belt tension. My engine developed a small vibration and after looking hard the oly sign was the belt a bit loose. According to RFI instruction the belt should be tightened so that with 8.6kg (19lbs) pressure the belt should deflect 3mm with engine at operating temp. When I tighten it to this amount it wines. Seems tight to me, any thoughts? Many thanks, John A. _________________________________________________________________ Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:16:30 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Burke" <jeburke94je@hughes.net>
    Subject: Bing 54 Choke adjustment
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jim Burke" <jeburke94je@hughes.net> I have just install two new Bing 54 Carbs. with new cable chokes. I know I put it in the garage for a panel and fuel tank upgrade, bungee cords,wiring and it seems the list goes on. I think I need to join upgrades anonymous. Now would someone tell me the proper way to adjust the cables on the new chokes? I don't want them to stand open or maybe not open at all when the choke is pulled. The springs in the new chokes are about twice as strong as the ones in the old chokes. Is this a upgrade in the chokes so they seal better? or should I use the old springs? I had to make a tool to compress the new springs so I could install the ends on the cable. Thanks for your input, Jim N94JE


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:35:29 AM PST US
    From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: altimeter
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> Hi Michel, Flying above 10,000 feet opened pilots to new problems. Lack of oxygen was one, but there was another.... There are "old wives' tales" of early high flying planes descending to 10,000 feet at night and landing in the ocean. While that may not be true, it isn't hard to misread an altimeter by 10-20-30,000 feet, if all you have are the 2 hands to look at. There were very likely times when pilots found themselves much lower than they thought from misreading altimeters, especially in the military on diving bomb runs. Those hands spin pretty fast going verticle! I know. I went 1000 feet low once myself and the pullout was high G! It is worse since our military maps are metric and the altimeters are in feet. Easy to hit a 400 meter hill when descending to 1000 feet. Some altimeters added a third short hand, or a bug to show 10's of thousands. The one with a bug might be what John has. I haven't seen one in quite a while. If you climb to 10,000 and the bugs moves to the 1, or you climb to 5,000 and the bug moves 1/2 way to the one, than that is it. Newer altimeters have 2 hands and a drum roll of numbers like an odometer so you can read both. You still have to avoid reporting FL 340 when your altimeter says 34,984 and you should say FL 350. That 34 really stands out on the drum roll because it is in larger numbers. Why aren't you at FL 350? With 3 altimeters in the cockpit, there will be disagreement up high and exact altitudes are - well, the captain is always right! I have also seen an altimeter with only one hand. It went up to 25,000 I think. Maybe 15,000? The face was very busy or compressed with all the numbers and it would be hard to quickly read altitudes closely. I wonder if they are used for baloons? You have plenty of time to read fine details on an altimeter in one of those. Heck-with-pascals? Time Mag a trend setter? Michel! :-) Actually, as you know, companies like Ford had to switch to metric to sell out of the U.S. long ago. This is the British revenge on us. When everyone else can relate weight to volume to distance, we are still stuck with totally untrelated measures that make no sense, except to the Crown's body measurements. Like with the altimeter, in metric you still have to watch those zero's. But metric is a much easier system to see matematical relationships with. We should have switched before the Brits, but we were isolationists back then. Reminds me of the Romans. Great engineers, but you can't do "pie' in roman numerals. They used Greek matamaticians to do their calculations to make all those arches! How do you do fractions in Roman numerals anyway? Decimals? Unfortunately hectopascals are not as fine a measure as inches of mercury, so altimeter settings are not as accurate with them. But we sure showed the British by driving on the other side of the street! Now when we drive overseas, you can tell right away. The windshield wippers go on whenever we make a left turn because the wipper switch is on the other side from the signal switch. (It doesn't happen on right turns because the wipper switch won't go down.) And we look to the wrong side when crossing the street. And we see cars with only passengers in them..... So, yes, I am ready for a standard and metric makes sense, mostly. Heck-with-pascals! Brits and French on the same boat! Usually only happened when one lost to the other. Maybe that is still the reason? ;-) Who's boat was it and who was captain? Kurt S. --- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote: > On May 6, 2006, at 9:42 AM, kurt schrader wrote: > Thanks Kurt, I understand now the use of your "bug > setting" in consideration to minima. But John means > that his instrument has only one knob, the one for > the "Q" setting and the same knob turns that bug > too......... > > > Another thing would be for us all to be consistant > > as to when to change and milibars or hectopascals. > > As a life-time pilot, are you ready to make the > jump, Kurt? Mind you, officially, the US has gone > metric. Time Magazine, the trend setter, ....... > ......the damn froggies! > Zut! ze damn roastbeef, remember Joan of Arc! :-) > Sorry guys, I have been at sea with Brits and > French on the same boat. I am still laughing > at it! :-) > > Cheers, > Michel __________________________________________________


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:39:06 AM PST US
    From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Tundra tyres.
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> Hummm. Some tires still show a seam where the belt wrap joins. Tires are not always a continuous wrap and lower cost tires do not hide the overlap of the tread wrap. Basically I know of 3 choices: Flat spots from landing tread wear. Flat spots from cold tires taking a while to flex out the parking flat spot. Flat spots from tread overlap. Look at some new ones of the same brand and it will probably still show there too. Can't think of any other reasons? Kurt S. --- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote: > On May 6, 2006, at 8:10 AM, kurt schrader wrote: > > > Do your tires pick up flats spots from > > sitting in one place while parked in the cold? > > Well ... not exactly, Kurt. It looks like they were > deformed in place > because moving on an edge. First, I thought they > might have locked > themselves in the wheel penetration skis when e.g. > landing. But then, I > should see wear marks on the skis and I don't. Then > there is a metal > rail to cross when I exit the hangar. The rail is > used to support the > sliding doors. But I have never seen that before, it > only came this > winter. Strange. The tyres are working fine only > that you can see that > they are not any longer even, there are kind of > hollows areas in them. > Difficult to explain, I should take a picture. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive __________________________________________________


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:05:58 AM PST US
    From: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
    Subject: Re: altimeter
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net> Kurt , Another good point for metrification. Remember,that is how we lost one of our Mars landers. One group was working in English measure,the other in Metric. Even the English don't use the "English " system any longer. Only countries in the known universe still using it ,I believe, are Liberia,Burma ,and the USA. Wonder how many people in the rest of the world want our oddball measured products. Trade deficit? hmmmm Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: altimeter > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> > > Hi Michel, > > Flying above 10,000 feet opened pilots to new > problems. Lack of oxygen was one, but there was > another.... > > There are "old wives' tales" of early high flying > planes descending to 10,000 feet at night and landing > in the ocean. While that may not be true, it isn't > hard to misread an altimeter by 10-20-30,000 feet, if > all you have are the 2 hands to look at. There were > very likely times when pilots found themselves much > lower than they thought from misreading altimeters, > especially in the military on diving bomb runs. Those > hands spin pretty fast going verticle! I know. I > went 1000 feet low once myself and the pullout was > high G! > > It is worse since our military maps are metric and the > altimeters are in feet. Easy to hit a 400 meter hill > when descending to 1000 feet. > > Some altimeters added a third short hand, or a bug to > show 10's of thousands. The one with a bug might be > what John has. I haven't seen one in quite a while. > If you climb to 10,000 and the bugs moves to the 1, or > you climb to 5,000 and the bug moves 1/2 way to the > one, than that is it. > > Newer altimeters have 2 hands and a drum roll of > numbers like an odometer so you can read both. You > still have to avoid reporting FL 340 when your > altimeter says 34,984 and you should say FL 350. That > 34 really stands out on the drum roll because it is in > larger numbers. > > Why aren't you at FL 350? With 3 altimeters in the > cockpit, there will be disagreement up high and exact > altitudes are - well, the captain is always right! > > I have also seen an altimeter with only one hand. It > went up to 25,000 I think. Maybe 15,000? The face > was very busy or compressed with all the numbers and > it would be hard to quickly read altitudes closely. I > wonder if they are used for baloons? You have plenty > of time to read fine details on an altimeter in one of > those. > > Heck-with-pascals? Time Mag a trend setter? Michel! > :-) > > Actually, as you know, companies like Ford had to > switch to metric to sell out of the U.S. long ago. > This is the British revenge on us. When everyone else > can relate weight to volume to distance, we are still > stuck with totally untrelated measures that make no > sense, except to the Crown's body measurements. Like > with the altimeter, in metric you still have to watch > those zero's. But metric is a much easier system to > see matematical relationships with. We should have > switched before the Brits, but we were isolationists > back then. > > Reminds me of the Romans. Great engineers, but you > can't do "pie' in roman numerals. They used Greek > matamaticians to do their calculations to make all > those arches! How do you do fractions in Roman > numerals anyway? Decimals? > > Unfortunately hectopascals are not as fine a measure > as inches of mercury, so altimeter settings are not as > accurate with them. > > But we sure showed the British by driving on the other > side of the street! Now when we drive overseas, you > can tell right away. The windshield wippers go on > whenever we make a left turn because the wipper switch > is on the other side from the signal switch. (It > doesn't happen on right turns because the wipper > switch won't go down.) And we look to the wrong side > when crossing the street. And we see cars with only > passengers in them..... > > So, yes, I am ready for a standard and metric makes > sense, mostly. Heck-with-pascals! > > Brits and French on the same boat! Usually only > happened when one lost to the other. Maybe that is > still the reason? ;-) Who's boat was it and who was > captain? > > Kurt S. > > --- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote: > >> On May 6, 2006, at 9:42 AM, kurt schrader wrote: > >> Thanks Kurt, I understand now the use of your "bug >> setting" in consideration to minima. But John means >> that his instrument has only one knob, the one for >> the "Q" setting and the same knob turns that bug >> too......... >> >> > Another thing would be for us all to be consistant >> > as to when to change and milibars or hectopascals. >> >> As a life-time pilot, are you ready to make the >> jump, Kurt? Mind you, officially, the US has gone >> metric. Time Magazine, the trend setter, ....... > >> ......the damn froggies! >> Zut! ze damn roastbeef, remember Joan of Arc! :-) >> Sorry guys, I have been at sea with Brits and >> French on the same boat. I am still laughing >> at it! :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Michel > > __________________________________________________ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:05:58 AM PST US
    From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Poor-man's Dyno
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> Ingenious Lowell, Inexpensive and doable, but requires knowing what you are doing with the math. It does not tell you actual thrust, so it doesn not let you know how good a prop you have though. A strain gauge on the back of the engine that measures the forward movement only would read thrust and automatically adjust for temp, pressure and such. It would show what thrust you are actually getting where torque does not show how good or poor a prop is. The problem is getting a good isolated forward movement only on the strain gauge. You can easily get a relative reading with the strain gauge though. Reads in % of power? You can get a strain gauge from a good scale for not too much $. You'll have to come up with the attachment and way to read it though. I have another answer, but need Elbie's help to test. (I offered it to him for marketing.) It takes account of all the variables on one gauge and tells you your thrust. Changing RPM, props, prop pitch, altitude, temp, any variable and it will let you know when you are getting the most out of your engine and prop at any speed. Wish I had the time to test it myself. I'd have it out there for you all to use. Sorry. Kurt S. Do not archive --- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > I have sent a PDF file of a poor man's dyno that was > submitted by a member > of the Lancair email group (LML). It should be on > http://www.sportflight.com/ soon. It is pretty > sophisticated, but doable > for those interested in finding out what they are > getting from their engines > and various RPM prop pitch combinations. > > Lowell __________________________________________________


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:09:20 AM PST US
    From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: VW redrive thrust results
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> Thanks Ron, Isn't this what we are all about? Experimenting with what works best and telling others? I don't think my prop is the best for my engine, but I don't "know" what is best. It may require different gearing for the engine to match the prop, or a different prop to match the engine. It sure doesn't seem like 140 hp worth of thrust up front to me. Kurt S. --- ron schick <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com> wrote: > Kurt I have heard on another list that a direct > drive 1835cc put out 275 lbs > thrust. I'm way over that and think I can do better > with shorter prop and > more ppitch. I will try my 64" GSC to see what that > does before cutting the > 72" IVO. I have many other thing in the building > stage so I'll post as I > get results. Ron NB Ore __________________________________________________


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:08:32 PM PST US
    From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
    Subject: KITFOX PARTS AND OTHER AIRCRAFT PARTS FOR SALE UPDATE:
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net> KITFOX PARTS AND OTHER AIRCRAFT PARTS FOR SALE UPDATE: Custom air oil separators as seen on sportflight pic post $150.00 each...................... CAP 140 complete hub assembly for NSI redrive, may fit others, no blades $1,500 OBO............. E.I digital EGT instrument, no probe $180 each or both for $300.00.................... Hand held radio Yaesu VXA-200. This was there top of the line model and should be compared to same now, has altitude,density altitude,pressure alt. Temp, VOR heading plus extra Nmhi battery and programming software and cable, list was over $600.00 sell for $350.00.................... COM/nav antenna model VHF5-1 by AAE thin flat composite style list $125 sell for $85.00.................. E.I. Electronics International Digital Volt/Amp gage with over and under voltage indication internal shunt model VA-1A list $285 sell for %200.00.........................SOLD Carb ice gage Westach with sending probe $45.00.................SOLD Intercom by PS Engineering model PM1000II with digital cockpit record option $300.00.................. Electric clock model MD-90 $60.00..................... Turtle deck with smoke grey lexan, has scratch in glass 150.00 if you do a pick up I have material for replacement...... Electric servo/ jack screw assembly $500.00 OBO.................. Wheel pant left side only painted ready to mount or repaint $50.00............ Rudder $300.00.............. Elevator $225.00.............. VDO gages: 2 1/8 tack , water temp,oil pressure, boost, large RPM 3 1/8 maybe 1/4, EGT make offer.............. Cargo bay bag with aluminum custom fit bottom, no sagging. $95.00 ......................... Left long wing, moderate damage pick up only, $1,500.00.................... Right long wing major tip damage , $750.00................ Lift struts, pair, faired $600.00 pick up only................ Horizontal Stabilator faired strut braces pair $100.00................. Trim assist attached to mixer $80.00................ Low level fuel indicator, SS PN 10116.000 with factory drawing and install instruction $125.00......SOLD Custom super trapp exhaust system. Will require the welding of a 3 bolt flange to exhaust down pipe. $300.00 Pics on request.................... EA-81 turbo engine parts, blocks, engine mounts left and right, cranks, rods, push rods, heads, cams, open price to be set, accepting offers................ NSI alternator pulley New $60.00....................... Stock small NSI oil cooler $50.00.................. NSI redrive new set of gears. Confirmed 2:23:1$75.00..............SOLD NSI redrive gear puller $45.00....................SOLD SS flight controls all factory parts available in excellent condition.................... Strut end farings. These go at the top of the strus for less drag. $60.00 for the complete set never installed.....SOLD Carbon monoxide by coguardian. Plugs into lighter socket audible plus digital level indicator. They have a web site. $99.00 ............... Bendix/King fin type transponder antenna with ground plane plate $50.00..................... Airborne vacuum regulator valve model 2H3-23 #9AK FAA PMA list $728.00 in ACS catalog make offer.................. Airborne filter mount with filter best offer............. Seat belt set both sides , with shoulder harness black $75.00.............. Thanks so much Rick


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:18:24 PM PST US
    From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
    Subject: Re: Tundra tyres.
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> On May 7, 2006, at 6:38 PM, kurt schrader wrote: > Hummm. Some tires still show a seam where the belt wrap joins. This is not the case, Kurt. Please look at these photos I took today: http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/Tyres.jpg On the two upper photos, you can see, in the red circle, the depressions in the tyres. On the lower photo, the steel rail that may be the cause of the depressions. It's the only thing I can think of. Strange, isn't it? Also note that the hangar (actually an old workshop for the airfield) is not wide enough to get my Kitfox in and out straight. When over the rail, I have to turn the plane 180 degrees to get one wing out at the time. Cheers, Michel


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:42:51 PM PST US
    From: "clemwehner" <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Poor-man's Dyno
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner" <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net> This may be over simplified, but why couldn't we measure thrust by putting a spring scale on a chain hooked to the tail, just like we did with RC aircraft. It would seem easy enough to make a simple lever arrangement to multiply the range of a spring scale up to the range of thrust we expect. It may not be totally accurate but would sure be easy to see differences of pitch change, or prop, or anything else you want to compare. Am I missing something? Clem Lawton, OK KFIV-912 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poor-man's Dyno --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader --> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> Ingenious Lowell, Inexpensive and doable, but requires knowing what you are doing with the math. It does not tell you actual thrust, so it doesn not let you know how good a prop you have though. A strain gauge on the back of the engine that measures the forward movement only would read thrust and automatically adjust for temp, pressure and such. It would show what thrust you are actually getting where torque does not show how good or poor a prop is. The problem is getting a good isolated forward movement only on the strain gauge. You can easily get a relative reading with the strain gauge though. Reads in % of power? You can get a strain gauge from a good scale for not too much $. You'll have to come up with the attachment and way to read it though. I have another answer, but need Elbie's help to test. (I offered it to him for marketing.) It takes account of all the variables on one gauge and tells you your thrust. Changing RPM, props, prop pitch, altitude, temp, any variable and it will let you know when you are getting the most out of your engine and prop at any speed. Wish I had the time to test it myself. I'd have it out there for you all to use. Sorry. Kurt S.


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:50:18 PM PST US
    From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
    Subject: Re: altimeter
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> Hello Kurt, On May 7, 2006, at 6:32 PM, kurt schrader wrote: > Some altimeters added a third short hand, or a bug to > show 10's of thousands. I understand, Kurt. Our Kitfoxes (at least, mine, with the original instruments) also has a "third handle" that moves as a disc, with the window showing the diagonal lines in the background, a line up and a small triangle, to indicate the thousands of feet. But John was talking of a "fast moving bug" as he adjusted the pressure knob. I guess we'll have to hear from him. > Heck-with-pascals? Time Mag a trend setter? Michel! :-) I beg your pardon, Sire, but I owe most of my English from being subscribed for at least 20 years to this excellent magazine. They were the first to e.g. write Beijing instead of Peking, as the Chinese required. I once remember reading a reader's letter saying about this: In you article, you wrote that Mark Twain wrote: "I never read there letters." He surely didn't write that. To what the editor answered: Yes, indeed, he did! Now that the best example of proof reading I know of: When quoting an author that makes a mistake, it is correctly "wrongly" written. That takes quite a professional team of proof readers, my friend! Remember that Time is used to teach English worldwide. > So, yes, I am ready for a standard and metric makes sense, mostly. > Heck-with-pascals! Being myself a fan of binary notation and boolean logic, I must say the the division of the inch in 16th or 32th is quite interesting. I only wish the Sumerians had divided the circle not in 360 degrees (wrongly assumed as the daily sun's right ascension) but in 256. It would have made life so much easier for a lot of computer programmers. BTW, here is a good one: "There are 10 different kinds of people: Those who count binary and those who don't!" (got it? :-) > Brits and French on the same boat! Usually only happened when one > lost to the other. Maybe that is > still the reason? ;-) Who's boat was it and who was captain? Thank you for asking! :-) The captain was Norwegian, the deck hands were Spanish and the flag was from Singapore! Oh, did I mention that there was one Belgian too, on board? :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive


    Message 12


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    Time: 05:10:54 PM PST US
    From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Poor-man's Dyno
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> Good point, Clem if thrust is what you are looking for. I guess thrust is the combination you would get from horse power and prop effeciency. What the Poor-man's dyno gives is a way to calculate horsepower. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "clemwehner" <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: RE:Kitfox-List: Poor-man's Dyno > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner" <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net> > > > This may be over simplified, but why couldn't we measure thrust by > putting a spring scale on a chain hooked to the tail, just like we did > with RC aircraft. It would seem easy enough to make a simple lever > arrangement to multiply the range of a spring scale up to the range of > thrust we expect. It may not be totally accurate but would sure be easy > to see differences of pitch change, or prop, or anything else you want > to compare. Am I missing something? > > Clem > Lawton, OK > KFIV-912 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt > schrader > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:05 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poor-man's Dyno > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > --> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> > > Ingenious Lowell, > > Inexpensive and doable, but requires knowing what you > are doing with the math. It does not tell you actual > thrust, so it doesn not let you know how good a prop > you have though. > > A strain gauge on the back of the engine that measures > the forward movement only would read thrust and > automatically adjust for temp, pressure and such. It > would show what thrust you are actually getting where > torque does not show how good or poor a prop is. The > problem is getting a good isolated forward movement > only on the strain gauge. You can easily get a > relative reading with the strain gauge though. Reads > in % of power? You can get a strain gauge from a good > scale for not too much $. You'll have to come up with > the attachment and way to read it though. > > I have another answer, but need Elbie's help to test. > (I offered it to him for marketing.) It takes account > of all the variables on one gauge and tells you your > thrust. Changing RPM, props, prop pitch, altitude, > temp, any variable and it will let you know when you > are getting the most out of your engine and prop at > any speed. > > Wish I had the time to test it myself. I'd have it > out there for you all to use. Sorry. > > Kurt S. > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 05:27:10 PM PST US
    From: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
    Subject: Re: Tundra tyres.
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net> Michel, I wonder if the construction of ATV tires (tyres) differs enough that they may more easily form these flat spots when stored in cold for a while. The fact that the tire is not as thick as was designed for normal useage (due to the treads removed), may contribute to the problem. Is this a recent development? You've probably already thought of this; perhaps you could mark the tires or note the depression in relation to tire lettering. Then see if it later occurs in another location on the tire. That would indicate an extrernal cause (the rail) verses a defect in the tire. Please keep us informed as I and others have these kind of tires. Rex Florida. Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> > >On May 7, 2006, at 6:38 PM, kurt schrader wrote: > > >>Hummm. Some tires still show a seam where the belt wrap joins. >> >> > >This is not the case, Kurt. Please look at these photos I took today: > >http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/Tyres.jpg > >On the two upper photos, you can see, in the red circle, the >depressions in the tyres. On the lower photo, the steel rail that may >be the cause of the depressions. It's the only thing I can think of. >Strange, isn't it? Also note that the hangar (actually an old workshop >for the airfield) is not wide enough to get my Kitfox in and out >straight. When over the rail, I have to turn the plane 180 degrees to >get one wing out at the time. > >Cheers, >Michel > > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:51:39 PM PST US
    From: "randy bortree" <plane6013@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Poor-man's Dyno
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "randy bortree" <plane6013@earthlink.net> I've been doing it for years, I always sit in the plane when testing the trust, readings are lower this way. but much safer then standing on the ground next to the plane. Randy > [Original Message] > From: clemwehner <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com> > Date: 5/7/2006 4:49:40 PM > Subject: RE:Kitfox-List: Poor-man's Dyno > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner" <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net> > > > This may be over simplified, but why couldn't we measure thrust by > putting a spring scale on a chain hooked to the tail, just like we did > with RC aircraft. It would seem easy enough to make a simple lever > arrangement to multiply the range of a spring scale up to the range of > thrust we expect. It may not be totally accurate but would sure be easy > to see differences of pitch change, or prop, or anything else you want > to compare. Am I missing something? > > Clem > Lawton, OK > KFIV-912 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt > schrader > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:05 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poor-man's Dyno > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > --> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> > > Ingenious Lowell, > > Inexpensive and doable, but requires knowing what you > are doing with the math. It does not tell you actual > thrust, so it doesn not let you know how good a prop > you have though. > > A strain gauge on the back of the engine that measures > the forward movement only would read thrust and > automatically adjust for temp, pressure and such. It > would show what thrust you are actually getting where > torque does not show how good or poor a prop is. The > problem is getting a good isolated forward movement > only on the strain gauge. You can easily get a > relative reading with the strain gauge though. Reads > in % of power? You can get a strain gauge from a good > scale for not too much $. You'll have to come up with > the attachment and way to read it though. > > I have another answer, but need Elbie's help to test. > (I offered it to him for marketing.) It takes account > of all the variables on one gauge and tells you your > thrust. Changing RPM, props, prop pitch, altitude, > temp, any variable and it will let you know when you > are getting the most out of your engine and prop at > any speed. > > Wish I had the time to test it myself. I'd have it > out there for you all to use. Sorry. > > Kurt S. > > > > > > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:10:52 PM PST US
    From: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Poor-man's Dyno
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com> Clem I had to tie my Avid down for static testing. This was done by putting a 1/2" hole in the back of my shop wall and a 3/8 ready bolt through that into a plate. As I started tinkering with the VW fox I used the same tie down. From their it progressed to a 4x6" board across two bathroom scales that stand up between the wall and 4x6". I have a total thrust of 370 lbs from the VW Kitfox, and can't wait to get the 582 rotax Avid back home for a test. I have a friend on the avid list, who will remain nameless, that pulled his scale apart leading to a new prop etc. Ron NB Or >From: "clemwehner" <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net> >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com> >Subject: RE:Kitfox-List: Poor-man's Dyno >Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 15:41:38 -0500 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner" <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net> > > >This may be over simplified, but why couldn't we measure thrust by >putting a spring scale on a chain hooked to the tail, just like we did >with RC aircraft. It would seem easy enough to make a simple lever >arrangement to multiply the range of a spring scale up to the range of >thrust we expect. It may not be totally accurate but would sure be easy >to see differences of pitch change, or prop, or anything else you want >to compare. Am I missing something? > >Clem >Lawton, OK >KFIV-912 > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt >schrader >Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:05 PM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poor-man's Dyno > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader >--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> > >Ingenious Lowell, > >Inexpensive and doable, but requires knowing what you >are doing with the math. It does not tell you actual >thrust, so it doesn not let you know how good a prop >you have though. > >A strain gauge on the back of the engine that measures >the forward movement only would read thrust and >automatically adjust for temp, pressure and such. It >would show what thrust you are actually getting where >torque does not show how good or poor a prop is. The >problem is getting a good isolated forward movement >only on the strain gauge. You can easily get a >relative reading with the strain gauge though. Reads >in % of power? You can get a strain gauge from a good >scale for not too much $. You'll have to come up with >the attachment and way to read it though. > >I have another answer, but need Elbie's help to test. >(I offered it to him for marketing.) It takes account >of all the variables on one gauge and tells you your >thrust. Changing RPM, props, prop pitch, altitude, >temp, any variable and it will let you know when you >are getting the most out of your engine and prop at >any speed. > >Wish I had the time to test it myself. I'd have it >out there for you all to use. Sorry. > >Kurt S. > > _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:38:38 PM PST US
    From: Bob Holiday <moto123@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: kitfox V for sale
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Bob Holiday <moto123@sbcglobal.net> I am selling my Kitfox V. Website with info and price: http://airplaneforsale.bicyclepedaler.com bob holliday


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:56:05 PM PST US
    From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: kitfox V for sale
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> Absolutely beautiful plane Bob. Could you post some performance figures here for us too? Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Bob Holiday <moto123@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > I am selling my Kitfox V. > Website with info and price: > http://airplaneforsale.bicyclepedaler.com > > bob holliday __________________________________________________


    Message 18


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    Time: 11:56:07 PM PST US
    From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Metric (was altimeter)
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> Exactly Larry, Always problems mixing the 2 measurements. On a personal level, last year I finally got rid of my '87 Dodge Caravan with the Opel drivetrain and the Mitsubishi engine. World economy? I was able to rebuild most of it along its lifespan only because I had both english and metric tools to work with. But now I have a kitFox powered by a Soob, so neither of my tool sets will get rusty. ;-) I just have to use the right set so as not to round off the bolts. Everything is good until..... What is this "knots" thing? Ha ha Revenge from Michel the sailorman? If my ASI read in metric I would feel like I was going faster...... I chose knots so I could navigate better, but knots are the hectopascal of speed. Not so fine a measurement. But if it was all metric, we would know our verticle speed and distance relates more easily to horizontal speed and figure angle of climb, runway required, obsticle clearance, etc easily. Wind in mph, speed in knots, height in feet or meters, and in our weather reports mist is "BR" thanks to the French. (We call it barely raining) Luckily we are in the computer age where everything there is standard. What????? Kurt S. Do not archive --- Larry Huntley <asq1@adelphia.net> wrote: > Kurt , > Another good point for metrification. > Remember,that is how we lost one of > our Mars landers. One group was working in English > measure,the other in > Metric. Even the English don't use the "English " > system any longer. Only > countries in the known universe still using it ,I > believe, are Liberia,Burma > ,and the USA. Wonder how many people in the rest > of the world want our > oddball measured products. Trade deficit? hmmmm > > Larry __________________________________________________




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