Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:22 AM - Re: Hydraulic brakes (Fox5flyer)
2. 03:38 AM - Re: Hydraulic brakes (Rexster)
3. 03:41 AM - Re: Hydraulic brakes (Bradley M Webb)
4. 04:33 AM - Re: Hydraulic brakes (Fox5flyer)
5. 04:49 AM - brakes malcolm (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
6. 04:53 AM - Re: Bing 54 Choke adjustment (Jim Burke)
7. 06:07 AM - Re: Thrust...Overrated? (Rex)
8. 06:19 AM - Re: Hydraulic brakes (Dan Billingsley)
9. 06:37 AM - Re: Hydraulic brakes (Larry Martin)
10. 06:49 AM - Re: Thrust...Overrated? (Clem Nichols)
11. 09:24 AM - Re: Thrust...Overrated? (kurt schrader)
12. 09:24 AM - Re: Thrust...Overrated? (kurt schrader)
13. 10:26 AM - Re: Thrust...Overrated? (Rex)
14. 10:53 AM - Re: Thrust...Overrated? (Fox5flyer)
15. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic brakes (Mike Ford)
16. 11:10 AM - Re: Thrust...Overrated? (kurt schrader)
17. 11:31 AM - Re: Re: Thrust - Over Rated-Overstated? (ron schick)
18. 12:10 PM - Re: Thrust...Overrated? (Rex)
19. 12:49 PM - Re: brakes malcolm (Rexster)
20. 03:42 PM - Re: Rans S6S prop,,,, was Thrust...Overrated? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
21. 04:42 PM - Re: 912S/ oil cooler efficiency (Fred Shiple)
22. 05:03 PM - Re: Re: Hydraulic brakes (Bradley M Webb)
23. 06:23 PM - Re: matco (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
24. 06:39 PM - Re Hydraulic :Brakes (Larry Martin)
25. 09:50 PM - Re: Rans S6S prop,,,, was Thrust...Overrated? (kurt schrader)
26. 09:56 PM - Re: Thrust...Overrated? (kurt schrader)
27. 10:03 PM - Re: Re: Thrust - Over Rated-Overstated? (kurt schrader)
28. 10:36 PM - Re: Re Hydraulic :Brakes (Clint Bazzill)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Mike, those Clevelands are good brakes and probably the best you can get.
Sounds like you may have a tiny crack at the caliper that gets wider when
you tighten up the bleeder fitting. The threads are tapered and the tighter
you make it the wider the crack would spread, if a crack actually exists.
It also sounds as if you may have gotten some fluid on the pads on that side
which would make them ineffective. I'd suggest removing that caliper to the
bench and use a strong magnifier light to check out the cause of the leak.
Dye penitrent works best. Barring all that you can send the caliper back to
Cleveland. I'm sure they'll fix you up. Good luck.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ford" <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
>
> How many other people out there have Cleveland brakes? Do you like them?
I have just recently broken the left control arm off of my model 4's rudder
pedal.
>
> About two weeks before that, I was attempting to fix a small weep at the
caliper (weeping at the fitting). After I got the pedals bled, I'd test
them out. I've always had a hard time breaking the tail wheel free when
spinning to the right. I would also have a hard time getting the plane to
go straight after a successful spin to the left (which is why I looked into
the brake fluid weep in the first place)
>
> When testing the brakes, I'd use them in a heavy manner trying to get them
to hold enough to spin the plane, but I ended up fatiguing the rudder pedal
assembly instead.
>
> I've tried to the weep about 7 times, even took it to an A&P, but all the
fussing has ended up making the leak worse. I would now be happy with the
leak I had before trouble shooting.
>
> I'm currently having my pedals fixed and reinforced.
>
> Are Cleveland brakes a world of difference?
>
> I've also read up on the brake it procedure for the Matco brakes. I have
not tried it yet. I was told that they look to be worn in correctly.
>
>
> Mike Ford
> M4 speedster 912
>
>
> Rexster <runwayrex@juno.com> wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
"Rexster"
>
> Those probably are Matco brakes. I changed from Matco to Cleveland and w=
> as very impressed with the difference. With the Matco brakes, some peopl=
> e were breaking rudder pedals trying to hold the plane during run-ups. W=
> ith the Clevelands, rudder pedal forces were greatly reduced. That's my =
> experience.
> Rex Phelps/ Michigan
>
>
> -- Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
>
> I have a KF2 finished in 1999 and can find nothing in my records on the=
> =
>
> brakes. They are hydraulic and look like matko but they have no writ=
> ing at all =
>
> on them. They are all aluminum and the peddles look just like the on=
> es in =
>
> the builders manual as do the axis one caliper is sticking , the roto=
> r =
>
> gets real hot and the other is leaking rite through the wall. like a po=
> ris spot =
>
> in the aluminum What to do? =
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
>
>
Message 2
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rexster" <runwayrex@juno.com>
Deke,
I don't picture Cleveland being willing to fix Mike's Matco brakes.
Rex Phelps/ Michigan/ Model 3
-- "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.u=
s>
Mike, those Clevelands are good brakes and probably the best you can get=
.
Sounds like you may have a tiny crack at the caliper that gets wider whe=
n
you tighten up the bleeder fitting. The threads are tapered and the tig=
hter
you make it the wider the crack would spread, if a crack actually exists=
.
It also sounds as if you may have gotten some fluid on the pads on that =
side
which would make them ineffective. I'd suggest removing that caliper to=
the
bench and use a strong magnifier light to check out the cause of the lea=
k.
Dye penitrent works best. Barring all that you can send the caliper bac=
k to
Cleveland. I'm sure they'll fix you up. Good luck.
Deke
----- Original Message ----- =
From: "Mike Ford" <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
>
> How many other people out there have Cleveland brakes? Do you like th=
em?
I have just recently broken the left control arm off of my model 4's rud=
der
pedal.
>
> About two weeks before that, I was attempting to fix a small weep at t=
he
caliper (weeping at the fitting). After I got the pedals bled, I'd test=
them out. I've always had a hard time breaking the tail wheel free when
spinning to the right. I would also have a hard time getting the plane =
to
go straight after a successful spin to the left (which is why I looked i=
nto
the brake fluid weep in the first place)
>
> When testing the brakes, I'd use them in a heavy manner trying to get =
them
to hold enough to spin the plane, but I ended up fatiguing the rudder pe=
dal
assembly instead.
>
> I've tried to the weep about 7 times, even took it to an A&P, but all =
the
fussing has ended up making the leak worse. I would now be happy with t=
he
leak I had before trouble shooting.
>
> I'm currently having my pedals fixed and reinforced.
>
> Are Cleveland brakes a world of difference?
>
> I've also read up on the brake it procedure for the Matco brakes. I h=
ave
not tried it yet. I was told that they look to be worn in correctly.
>
>
> Mike Ford
> M4 speedster 912
>
>
> Rexster <runwayrex@juno.com> wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by:=
"Rexster"
>
> Those probably are Matco brakes. I changed from Matco to Cleveland and=
w
> as very impressed with the difference. With the Matco brakes, some peo=
pl
> e were breaking rudder pedals trying to hold the plane during run-ups.=
W
> ith the Clevelands, rudder pedal forces were greatly reduced. That's m=
y
> experience.
> Rex Phelps/ Michigan
>
>
> -- Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
>
> I have a KF2 finished in 1999 and can find nothing in my records on t=
he
>
>
> brakes. They are hydraulic and look like matko but they have no wr=
it
> ing at all
>
> on them. They are all aluminum and the peddles look just like the =
on
> es in
>
> the builders manual as do the axis one caliper is sticking , the ro=
to
> r
>
> gets real hot and the other is leaking rite through the wall. like a =
po
> ris spot
>
> in the aluminum What to do?
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
>
>
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
<html><P>Deke,</P>
<P> I don't picture Cleveland being willing to fix Mike's Matco br=
akes.</P>
<P>Rex Phelps/ Michigan/ Model 3</P>
<P><BR><BR>-- "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>&nb=
sp;wrote:<BR>--> Kitfox-List message posted by:&n=
bsp;"Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us><BR><BR>Mike, =
;those Clevelands are good brakes and prob=
ably the best you can get.<BR>Sounds like&=
nbsp;you may have a tiny crack at the=
caliper that gets wider when<BR>you tight=
en up the bleeder fitting. The threa=
ds are tapered and the tighter<BR>you make=
it the wider the crack would spread,=
if a crack actually exists.<BR>It also&nb=
sp;sounds as if you may have gotten s=
ome fluid on the pads on that side<BR=
>which would make them ineffective. I'd&n=
bsp;suggest removing that caliper to the<BR>ben=
ch and use a strong magnifier light t=
o check out the cause of the leak.<BR=
>Dye penitrent works best. Barring all&nb=
sp;that you can send the caliper back =
;to<BR>Cleveland. I'm sure they'll fix yo=
u up. Good luck.<BR>Deke<BR><BR>----- Original=
Message ----- <BR>From: "Mike Ford" <f=
ordm2003@yahoo.com><BR>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com><BR>=
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:04 PM<BR>=
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes<BR><BR><B=
R>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:&nb=
sp;Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com><BR>><BR>> =
How many other people out there have =
Cleveland brakes? Do you like them?<BR>I&=
nbsp;have just recently broken the left co=
ntrol arm off of my model 4's rudder<=
BR>pedal.<BR>><BR>> About two weeks before&nbs=
p;that, I was attempting to fix a sma=
ll weep at the<BR>caliper (weeping at the&=
nbsp;fitting). After I got the pedals&nbs=
p;bled, I'd test<BR>them out. I've always =
had a hard time breaking the tail whe=
el free when<BR>spinning to the right. &nb=
sp;I would also have a hard time gett=
ing the plane to<BR>go straight after a&nb=
sp;successful spin to the left (which is&n=
bsp;why I looked into<BR>the brake fluid w=
eep in the first place)<BR>><BR>> When&nb=
sp;testing the brakes, I'd use them in&nbs=
p;a heavy manner trying to get them<BR>to&=
nbsp;hold enough to spin the plane, but&nb=
sp;I ended up fatiguing the rudder pedal<B=
R>assembly instead.<BR>><BR>> I've tried to&nb=
sp;the weep about 7 times, even took =
it to an A&P, but all the<BR>fussing&n=
bsp;has ended up making the leak worse.&nb=
sp; I would now be happy with the<BR>=
leak I had before trouble shooting.<BR>><BR>=
> I'm currently having my pedals fixed&=
nbsp;and reinforced.<BR>><BR>> Are Cleveland b=
rakes a world of difference?<BR>><BR>> I'=
ve also read up on the brake it =
procedure for the Matco brakes. I ha=
ve<BR>not tried it yet. I was told&n=
bsp;that they look to be worn in corr=
ectly.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Mike Ford<BR>> =
M4 speedster 912<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>&g=
t;<BR>><BR>> Rexster <runwayrex@juno.com> wro=
te: --> Kitfox-List message posted by:<BR>"R=
exster"<BR>><BR>> Those probably are Matco&nbs=
p;brakes. I changed from Matco to Clevelan=
d and w<BR>> as very impressed with&=
nbsp;the difference. With the Matco brakes,&nbs=
p;some peopl<BR>> e were breaking rudder&=
nbsp;pedals trying to hold the plane durin=
g run-ups. W<BR>> ith the Clevelands,&nbs=
p;rudder pedal forces were greatly reduced.&nbs=
p;That's my <BR>> experience.<BR>> Rex =
;Phelps/ Michigan<BR>><BR>><BR>> -- Malcolmbru@a=
ol.com wrote:<BR>> --> Kitfox-List message&nbs=
p;posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com<BR>><BR>> I ha=
ve a KF2 finished in 1999 and can&nbs=
p;find nothing in my records on the=
<BR>> <BR>><BR>> brakes. Th=
ey are hydraulic and look like matko=
but they have no writ<BR>> in=
g at all <BR>><BR>> on them. &nbs=
p; They are all aluminum and the&nbs=
p;peddles look just like the on<BR>>=
; es in <BR>><BR>> the builders&=
nbsp;manual as do the axis one =
;caliper is sticking , the roto<BR>> =
;r <BR>><BR>> gets real hot and&=
nbsp;the other is leaking rite through the=
wall. like a po<BR>> ris spot =
<BR>><BR>> in the aluminum What=
to do? <BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>&g=
t; ---------------------------------<BR>> Yahoo! Mail&=
nbsp;goes everywhere you do. Get it =
on your phone.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>=
=
=
- The Kitfox-List Email&nbs=
nbsp;List utilities such as the Subscriptions&n=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
=
=
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI&nb=
p; &nbs=
p; &nbs=
p; &nbs=
=
sp; -&n=
; Thank you for your generous support!<BR>=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List&nb=
=
<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR>&nbs=
p;<BR> <BR><BR><BR><BR></P></html>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Hydraulic brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
I had this very problem recently, as well. I replaced my "sliders" with
bronze bushings, cut down to the right size. Now, I can push the pedal to
the floor, or full stroke of the master cylinder. It shouldn't be this way.
I think I will look at swapping out to Cleveland, as I'm not impressed with
the Matco setup.
California Power Systems seem to have a nice setup, yanked from go-karts.
Requires a new wheel, but it looks like it would work very well. Then again,
the Matco LOOKS like it should work, too.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAY Gignac
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT@msn.com>
Couple of things to look at: One of the spacers on the calipers could =
be binding and needs to be cleaned. As for the leak, O ring in the =
caliper could be bad allowing the leak and both problems are an easy =
fix. Matco sells the new O rings and new spacers if you are unable to =
clean them!
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolmbru@aol.com<mailto:Malcolmbru@aol.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:57 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: =
Malcolmbru@aol.com<mailto:Malcolmbru@aol.com>
I have a KF2 finished in 1999 and can find nothing in my records on =
the
brakes. They are hydraulic and look like matko but they have no =
writing at all
on them. They are all aluminum and the peddles look just like the =
ones in
the builders manual as do the axis one caliper is sticking , the =
rotor
gets real hot and the other is leaking rite through the wall. like a =
poris spot
in the aluminum What to do?
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N=
avigator?Kitfox-List>
=
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi=
on>
=
=
Message 4
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Oops. I guess I should have finished my coffee before I read his email.
Tnx Rex
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rexster" <runwayrex@juno.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rexster" <runwayrex@juno.com>
>
> Deke,
> I don't picture Cleveland being willing to fix Mike's Matco brakes.
> Rex Phelps/ Michigan/ Model 3
>
>
> -- "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.u=
> s>
>
> Mike, those Clevelands are good brakes and probably the best you can get=
> .
> Sounds like you may have a tiny crack at the caliper that gets wider whe=
> n
> you tighten up the bleeder fitting. The threads are tapered and the tig=
> hter
> you make it the wider the crack would spread, if a crack actually exists=
> .
> It also sounds as if you may have gotten some fluid on the pads on that =
> side
> which would make them ineffective. I'd suggest removing that caliper to=
> the
> bench and use a strong magnifier light to check out the cause of the lea=
> k.
> Dye penitrent works best. Barring all that you can send the caliper bac=
> k to
> Cleveland. I'm sure they'll fix you up. Good luck.
> Deke
>
> ----- Original Message ----- =
>
> From: "Mike Ford" <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
> >
> > How many other people out there have Cleveland brakes? Do you like th=
> em?
> I have just recently broken the left control arm off of my model 4's rud=
> der
> pedal.
> >
> > About two weeks before that, I was attempting to fix a small weep at t=
> he
> caliper (weeping at the fitting). After I got the pedals bled, I'd test=
>
> them out. I've always had a hard time breaking the tail wheel free when
> spinning to the right. I would also have a hard time getting the plane =
> to
> go straight after a successful spin to the left (which is why I looked i=
> nto
> the brake fluid weep in the first place)
> >
> > When testing the brakes, I'd use them in a heavy manner trying to get =
> them
> to hold enough to spin the plane, but I ended up fatiguing the rudder pe=
> dal
> assembly instead.
> >
> > I've tried to the weep about 7 times, even took it to an A&P, but all =
> the
> fussing has ended up making the leak worse. I would now be happy with t=
> he
> leak I had before trouble shooting.
> >
> > I'm currently having my pedals fixed and reinforced.
> >
> > Are Cleveland brakes a world of difference?
> >
> > I've also read up on the brake it procedure for the Matco brakes. I h=
> ave
> not tried it yet. I was told that they look to be worn in correctly.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Ford
> > M4 speedster 912
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rexster <runwayrex@juno.com> wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by:=
>
> "Rexster"
> >
> > Those probably are Matco brakes. I changed from Matco to Cleveland and=
> w
> > as very impressed with the difference. With the Matco brakes, some peo=
> pl
> > e were breaking rudder pedals trying to hold the plane during run-ups.=
> W
> > ith the Clevelands, rudder pedal forces were greatly reduced. That's m=
> y
> > experience.
> > Rex Phelps/ Michigan
> >
> >
> > -- Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote:
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
> >
> > I have a KF2 finished in 1999 and can find nothing in my records on t=
> he
> >
> >
> > brakes. They are hydraulic and look like matko but they have no wr=
> it
> > ing at all
> >
> > on them. They are all aluminum and the peddles look just like the =
> on
> > es in
> >
> > the builders manual as do the axis one caliper is sticking , the ro=
> to
> > r
> >
> > gets real hot and the other is leaking rite through the wall. like a =
> po
> > ris spot
> >
> > in the aluminum What to do?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> =
>
>
> =
>
>
> =
>
> =
>
>
>
>
> =
>
> =
>
> =
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <html><P>Deke,</P>
> <P> I don't picture Cleveland being willing to fix Mike's Matco br=
> akes.</P>
> <P>Rex Phelps/ Michigan/ Model 3</P>
> <P><BR><BR>-- "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>&nb=
> sp;wrote:<BR>--> Kitfox-List message posted by:&n=
> bsp;"Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us><BR><BR>Mike, =
> ;those Clevelands are good brakes and prob=
> ably the best you can get.<BR>Sounds like&=
> nbsp;you may have a tiny crack at the=
> caliper that gets wider when<BR>you tight=
> en up the bleeder fitting. The threa=
> ds are tapered and the tighter<BR>you make=
> it the wider the crack would spread,=
> if a crack actually exists.<BR>It also&nb=
> sp;sounds as if you may have gotten s=
> ome fluid on the pads on that side<BR=
> >which would make them ineffective. I'd&n=
> bsp;suggest removing that caliper to the<BR>ben=
> ch and use a strong magnifier light t=
> o check out the cause of the leak.<BR=
> >Dye penitrent works best. Barring all&nb=
> sp;that you can send the caliper back =
> ;to<BR>Cleveland. I'm sure they'll fix yo=
> u up. Good luck.<BR>Deke<BR><BR>----- Original=
> Message ----- <BR>From: "Mike Ford" <f=
> ordm2003@yahoo.com><BR>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com><BR>=
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:04 PM<BR>=
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes<BR><BR><B=
> R>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:&nb=
> sp;Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com><BR>><BR>> =
> How many other people out there have =
> Cleveland brakes? Do you like them?<BR>I&=
> nbsp;have just recently broken the left co=
> ntrol arm off of my model 4's rudder<=
> BR>pedal.<BR>><BR>> About two weeks before&nbs=
> p;that, I was attempting to fix a sma=
> ll weep at the<BR>caliper (weeping at the&=
> nbsp;fitting). After I got the pedals&nbs=
> p;bled, I'd test<BR>them out. I've always =
> had a hard time breaking the tail whe=
> el free when<BR>spinning to the right. &nb=
> sp;I would also have a hard time gett=
> ing the plane to<BR>go straight after a&nb=
> sp;successful spin to the left (which is&n=
> bsp;why I looked into<BR>the brake fluid w=
> eep in the first place)<BR>><BR>> When&nb=
> sp;testing the brakes, I'd use them in&nbs=
> p;a heavy manner trying to get them<BR>to&=
> nbsp;hold enough to spin the plane, but&nb=
> sp;I ended up fatiguing the rudder pedal<B=
> R>assembly instead.<BR>><BR>> I've tried to&nb=
> sp;the weep about 7 times, even took =
> it to an A&P, but all the<BR>fussing&n=
> bsp;has ended up making the leak worse.&nb=
> sp; I would now be happy with the<BR>=
> leak I had before trouble shooting.<BR>><BR>=
> > I'm currently having my pedals fixed&=
> nbsp;and reinforced.<BR>><BR>> Are Cleveland b=
> rakes a world of difference?<BR>><BR>> I'=
> ve also read up on the brake it =
> procedure for the Matco brakes. I ha=
> ve<BR>not tried it yet. I was told&n=
> bsp;that they look to be worn in corr=
> ectly.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Mike Ford<BR>> =
> M4 speedster 912<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>&g=
> t;<BR>><BR>> Rexster <runwayrex@juno.com> wro=
> te: --> Kitfox-List message posted by:<BR>"R=
> exster"<BR>><BR>> Those probably are Matco&nbs=
> p;brakes. I changed from Matco to Clevelan=
> d and w<BR>> as very impressed with&=
> nbsp;the difference. With the Matco brakes,&nbs=
> p;some peopl<BR>> e were breaking rudder&=
> nbsp;pedals trying to hold the plane durin=
> g run-ups. W<BR>> ith the Clevelands,&nbs=
> p;rudder pedal forces were greatly reduced.&nbs=
> p;That's my <BR>> experience.<BR>> Rex =
> ;Phelps/ Michigan<BR>><BR>><BR>> -- Malcolmbru@a=
> ol.com wrote:<BR>> --> Kitfox-List message&nbs=
> p;posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com<BR>><BR>> I ha=
> ve a KF2 finished in 1999 and can&nbs=
> p;find nothing in my records on the=
> <BR>> <BR>><BR>> brakes. Th=
> ey are hydraulic and look like matko=
> but they have no writ<BR>> in=
> g at all <BR>><BR>> on them. &nbs=
> p; They are all aluminum and the&nbs=
> p;peddles look just like the on<BR>>=
> ; es in <BR>><BR>> the builders&=
> nbsp;manual as do the axis one =
> ;caliper is sticking , the roto<BR>> =
> ;r <BR>><BR>> gets real hot and&=
> nbsp;the other is leaking rite through the=
> wall. like a po<BR>> ris spot =
> <BR>><BR>> in the aluminum What=
> to do? <BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>&g=
> t; ---------------------------------<BR>> Yahoo! Mail&=
> nbsp;goes everywhere you do. Get it =
> on your phone.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>=
> =
> =
> - The Kitfox-List Email&nbs=
> nbsp;List utilities such as the Subscriptions&n=
> sp; &nb=
> sp; &nb=
> sp; &nb=
> =
> =
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI&nb=
> p; &nbs=
> p; &nbs=
> p; &nbs=
> =
> sp; -&n=
> ; Thank you for your generous support!<BR>=
> nbsp; &=
> nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List&nb=
> =
> <BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR>&nbs=
> p;<BR> <BR><BR><BR><BR></P></html>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
do the matko brakes come un labeled ? any body want to sell me there old
ones? I will call matko. thank you Rex ,Ray ,Deek, Bradly,
malcolm Michigan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Bing 54 Choke adjustment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jim Burke" <jeburke94je@hughes.net>
Thanks Guy, I will take care of making the adjustment this morning before I
leave out. I also like the tie wrap thing to keep the cable from jumping
out, I'll give that a try to.
Again, thanks for your input and info.
Jim N94JE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bing 54 Choke adjustment
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 07:12 AM 5/7/2006, you wrote:
>> Now would someone tell me the proper way to adjust the cables on the
>>new chokes?
>
> I adjusted mine so there was some play in the cable housing at the carb.
> In
> other words: I pulled the black boot at the carb end of the choke cable
> well up the cable. I installed the entire choke system. I then backed out
> the adjuster until there was about .03" vertical play in the cable housing
> at the carb. I then tightened the adjusting nut and checked the play
> again.
> I then pulled the boot down over the adjusting nut and tie wrapped the top
> and bottom of the boot so the cable housing couldn't pull up.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
I was out motorcycle riding with some friends last weekend and saw one
of these airboats with the newer propeller drives. The one I saw had a
counter rotating system with 2 sets of 4 blade propellers for a total of
16 blades! This was all new stuff to me. I wonder if there may be some
way to adapt some simple version for kit planes? Interesting stuff.
http://www.classicairboats.com/pages/props.html
Rex
Florida
kurt schrader wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi Clem,
>
>I would really like to see more prop testing on our
>planes too. There are a lot of considerations with
>the different engines and Fox models, but we have so
>many opportunities.
>
>What engine is he running the wood prop on the Rans?
>Maybe someone with the same engine here would benefit.
> Generally speaking, the 2 blade should be the best
>compromise.
>
>Someone who really knows what they are doing with prop
>aerodynamics would probably make the best blades out
>of composit, due to the ability to form it better.
>
>Kurt S.
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Karla and Rex Hefferan
Gypsy Bee Innkeepers
719-651-5198 or 719-651-9192
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
Is anyone running Groves brakes? I haven't heard anyone mention them and this is
what I purchased as an up-grade to replace the Matco's that come with the kit.
I'm still building and curious how others like the Grove's product.
Dan B
Mesa, AZ
www.azshowersolutions.com/Kitfox1.html
Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
Oops. I guess I should have finished my coffee before I read his email.
Tnx Rex
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rexster"
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rexster"
>
> Deke,
> I don't picture Cleveland being willing to fix Mike's Matco brakes.
> Rex Phelps/ Michigan/ Model 3
>
>
> -- "Fox5flyer" wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > s>
>
> Mike, those Clevelands are good brakes and probably the best you can get=
> .
> Sounds like you may have a tiny crack at the caliper that gets wider whe=
> n
> you tighten up the bleeder fitting. The threads are tapered and the tig=
> hter
> you make it the wider the crack would spread, if a crack actually exists=
> .
> It also sounds as if you may have gotten some fluid on the pads on that =
> side
> which would make them ineffective. I'd suggest removing that caliper to=
> the
> bench and use a strong magnifier light to check out the cause of the lea=
> k.
> Dye penitrent works best. Barring all that you can send the caliper bac=
> k to
> Cleveland. I'm sure they'll fix you up. Good luck.
> Deke
>
> ----- Original Message ----- =
>
> From: "Mike Ford"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford
> >
> > How many other people out there have Cleveland brakes? Do you like th=
> em?
> I have just recently broken the left control arm off of my model 4's rud=
> der
> pedal.
> >
> > About two weeks before that, I was attempting to fix a small weep at t=
> he
> caliper (weeping at the fitting). After I got the pedals bled, I'd test=
>
> them out. I've always had a hard time breaking the tail wheel free when
> spinning to the right. I would also have a hard time getting the plane =
> to
> go straight after a successful spin to the left (which is why I looked i=
> nto
> the brake fluid weep in the first place)
> >
> > When testing the brakes, I'd use them in a heavy manner trying to get =
> them
> to hold enough to spin the plane, but I ended up fatiguing the rudder pe=
> dal
> assembly instead.
> >
> > I've tried to the weep about 7 times, even took it to an A&P, but all =
> the
> fussing has ended up making the leak worse. I would now be happy with t=
> he
> leak I had before trouble shooting.
> >
> > I'm currently having my pedals fixed and reinforced.
> >
> > Are Cleveland brakes a world of difference?
> >
> > I've also read up on the brake it procedure for the Matco brakes. I h=
> ave
> not tried it yet. I was told that they look to be worn in correctly.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Ford
> > M4 speedster 912
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rexster wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by:=
>
> "Rexster"
> >
> > Those probably are Matco brakes. I changed from Matco to Cleveland and=
> w
> > as very impressed with the difference. With the Matco brakes, some peo=
> pl
> > e were breaking rudder pedals trying to hold the plane during run-ups.=
> W
> > ith the Clevelands, rudder pedal forces were greatly reduced. That's m=
> y
> > experience.
> > Rex Phelps/ Michigan
> >
> >
> > -- Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote:
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
> >
> > I have a KF2 finished in 1999 and can find nothing in my records on t=
> he
> >
> >
> > brakes. They are hydraulic and look like matko but they have no wr=
> it
> > ing at all
> >
> > on them. They are all aluminum and the peddles look just like the =
> on
> > es in
> >
> > the builders manual as do the axis one caliper is sticking , the ro=
> to
> > r
> >
> > gets real hot and the other is leaking rite through the wall. like a =
> po
> > ris spot
> >
> > in the aluminum What to do?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> =
>
>
> =
>
>
> =
>
> =
>
>
>
>
> =
>
> =
>
> =
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Deke,
> I don't picture Cleveland being willing to fix Mike's Matco br=
> akes.
> Rex Phelps/ Michigan/ Model 3
>
-- "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>&nb=
> sp;wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by:&n=
> bsp;"Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Mike, =
> ;those Clevelands are good brakes and prob=
> ably the best you can get.
Sounds like&=
> nbsp;you may have a tiny crack at the=
> caliper that gets wider when
you tight=
> en up the bleeder fitting. The threa=
> ds are tapered and the tighter
you make=
> it the wider the crack would spread,=
> if a crack actually exists.
It also&nb=
> sp;sounds as if you may have gotten s=
> ome fluid on the pads on that side
> >which would make them ineffective. I'd&n=
> bsp;suggest removing that caliper to the
ben=
> ch and use a strong magnifier light t=
> o check out the cause of the leak.
> >Dye penitrent works best. Barring all&nb=
> sp;that you can send the caliper back =
> ;to
Cleveland. I'm sure they'll fix yo=
> u up. Good luck.
Deke
----- Original=
> Message -----
From: "Mike Ford" <f=
> ordm2003@yahoo.com>
=
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:04 PM
=
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
> R>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:&nb=
> sp;Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
>
> =
> How many other people out there have =
> Cleveland brakes? Do you like them?
I&=
> nbsp;have just recently broken the left co=
> ntrol arm off of my model 4's rudder<=
> BR>pedal.
>
> About two weeks before&nbs=
> p;that, I was attempting to fix a sma=
> ll weep at the
caliper (weeping at the&=
> nbsp;fitting). After I got the pedals&nbs=
> p;bled, I'd test
them out. I've always =
> had a hard time breaking the tail whe=
> el free when
spinning to the right. &nb=
> sp;I would also have a hard time gett=
> ing the plane to
go straight after a&nb=
> sp;successful spin to the left (which is&n=
> bsp;why I looked into
the brake fluid w=
> eep in the first place)
>
> When&nb=
> sp;testing the brakes, I'd use them in&nbs=
> p;a heavy manner trying to get them
to&=
> nbsp;hold enough to spin the plane, but&nb=
> sp;I ended up fatiguing the rudder pedal> R>assembly instead.
>
> I've tried to&nb=
> sp;the weep about 7 times, even took =
> it to an A&P, but all the
fussing&n=
> bsp;has ended up making the leak worse.&nb=
> sp; I would now be happy with the
=
> leak I had before trouble shooting.
>
=
> > I'm currently having my pedals fixed&=
> nbsp;and reinforced.
>
> Are Cleveland b=
> rakes a world of difference?
>
> I'=
> ve also read up on the brake it =
> procedure for the Matco brakes. I ha=
> ve
not tried it yet. I was told&n=
> bsp;that they look to be worn in corr=
> ectly.
>
>
> Mike Ford
> =
> M4 speedster 912
>
>
&g=
> t;
>
> Rexster <runwayrex@juno.com> wro=
> te: --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
"R=
> exster"
>
> Those probably are Matco&nbs=
> p;brakes. I changed from Matco to Clevelan=
> d and w
> as very impressed with&=
> nbsp;the difference. With the Matco brakes,&nbs=
> p;some peopl
> e were breaking rudder&=
> nbsp;pedals trying to hold the plane durin=
> g run-ups. W
> ith the Clevelands,&nbs=
> p;rudder pedal forces were greatly reduced.&nbs=
> p;That's my
> experience.
> Rex =
> ;Phelps/ Michigan
>
>
> -- Malcolmbru@a=
> ol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message&nbs=
> p;posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
>
> I ha=
> ve a KF2 finished in 1999 and can&nbs=
> p;find nothing in my records on the=
>
>
>
> brakes. Th=
> ey are hydraulic and look like matko=
> but they have no writ
> in=
> g at all
>
> on them. &nbs=
> p; They are all aluminum and the&nbs=
> p;peddles look just like the on
>=
> ; es in
>
> the builders&=
> nbsp;manual as do the axis one =
> ;caliper is sticking , the roto
> =
> ;r
>
> gets real hot and&=
> nbsp;the other is leaking rite through the=
> wall. like a po
> ris spot =
>
>
> in the aluminum What=
> to do?
>
>
&g=
> t; ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail&=
> nbsp;goes everywhere you do. Get it =
> on your phone.
>
>
>=
> =
> =
> - The Kitfox-List Email&nbs=
> nbsp;List utilities such as the Subscriptions&n=
> sp; &nb=
> sp; &nb=
> sp; &nb=
> =
> =
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI&nb=
> p; &nbs=
> p; &nbs=
> p; &nbs=
> =
> sp; -&n=
> ; Thank you for your generous support!
=
> nbsp; &=
> nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List&nb=
> =
>
&nbs=
> p;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | RE: Hydraulic brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <CrownLJ@verizon.net>
Mike,
Most of the problems with the Matco brakes stem from the installation =
of them. By this I mean that the brake is a brake - same laws of physic =
as any other. If you are experiencing poor braking, it is most likely =
due to the design of the rudder/brake pedal to brake piston linkage not =
allowing the required mechanical advantage which has to be a minimum of =
3:1. Check out Matco's website for the details/drawings. Additionally, =
the KF's brake pedal assy does need some reinforcing, as they are prone =
to crack. This can be done easily by adding a gusset across that =
corner, or there is a retro kit available. As for the leaking, I am =
assuming that you have plastic lines going to the master cylinder at the =
pedal? I had a heck of a time getting the lines tight without deforming =
the compression "washer" over the plastic line. I ended up using a =
brass insert in the line, and then the compression "washer" to help =
prevent it from deforming and leaking. Even at that, it took a couple =
tries to get it right without leaks. I have been successful for a year =
or so now - hope I didn't just ask for trouble! I had a terrible time =
with the brakes on mine, but all is sorted out now and I still have the =
Matco brakes and am completely satisfied. If you think that you did not =
brake in the pads correctly, put a sander on the pad to remove any glaze =
and then use the procedure as per the Matco instructions. Again, to =
compare brands - they are all working with the same laws of physics and =
are working with the same principles of operation and they even look the =
same dimensionally. I think that you would experience the same problems =
regardless of the name on the part. I would continue to trouble shoot, =
and save the $$ and thoughts of changing names.
When I got my airplane, I could not turn onto the runway without =
getting out and moving the tail. I would not fly anywhere I thought I =
would need brakes. After much help from Matco, I discovered that my =
airplane and a 1:1.2 ratio instead of the needed 1:3 min. After making =
the required changes - I am most satisfied!
Remember - this is fun!
Larry
Time: 08:06:44 PM PST US
From: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
How many other people out there have Cleveland brakes? Do you like =
them? I have
just recently broken the left control arm off of my model 4's rudder =
pedal.
About two weeks before that, I was attempting to fix a small weep at the =
caliper
(weeping at the fitting). After I got the pedals bled, I'd test them =
out. I've
always had a hard time breaking the tail wheel free when spinning to the =
right.
I would also have a hard time getting the plane to go straight after a
successful spin to the left (which is why I looked into the brake fluid =
weep in
the first place)
When testing the brakes, I'd use them in a heavy manner trying to get =
them to hold
enough to spin the plane, but I ended up fatiguing the rudder pedal =
assembly
instead.
I've tried to the weep about 7 times, even took it to an A&P, but all =
the fussing
has ended up making the leak worse. I would now be happy with the leak =
I had
before trouble shooting.
I'm currently having my pedals fixed and reinforced.
Are Cleveland brakes a world of difference?
I've also read up on the brake it procedure for the Matco brakes. I =
have not tried
it yet. I was told that they look to be worn in correctly.
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Kurt:
Standard engine on the Rans S6S is a Rotax 912S.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Thrust...Overrated?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Clem,
>
> I would really like to see more prop testing on our
> planes too. There are a lot of considerations with
> the different engines and Fox models, but we have so
> many opportunities.
>
> What engine is he running the wood prop on the Rans?
> Maybe someone with the same engine here would benefit.
> Generally speaking, the 2 blade should be the best
> compromise.
>
> Someone who really knows what they are doing with prop
> aerodynamics would probably make the best blades out
> of composit, due to the ability to form it better.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
So a Fox with a 912S could try their prop.... Any
takers?
Kurt S.
--- Clem Nichols <cnichols@scrtc.com> wrote:
> Kurt:
>
> Standard engine on the Rans S6S is a Rotax 912S.
__________________________________________________
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hey Rex,
Gald to see you getting out.
The Russian Bear Bomber was very fast with
counter-rotating props. Fastest big prop plane I know
of.
Those props you saw though are for low speed only.
Someone has to make a high speed version or you will
have a fantastic takeoff and climb, but a 65 mph top
speed.
Prop weight has to be considered.... :-(
Glider tow? Heck, at low speed you could pull a
manure spreader with that prop. Lot's a low end
power.
Now if we had a counter rotating, 100 knot, 20 lb Warp
drive.... No torque to fight on takeoff either.
Kurt S.
--- Rex <gypsybee@copper.net> wrote:
> I was out motorcycle riding with some friends last
> weekend and saw one
> of these airboats with the newer propeller drives.
> The one I saw had a
> counter rotating system with 2 sets of 4 blade
> propellers for a total of
> 16 blades! This was all new stuff to me. I wonder if
> there may be some
> way to adapt some simple version for kit planes?
> Interesting stuff.
> http://www.classicairboats.com/pages/props.html
>
> Rex
> Florida
__________________________________________________
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
Hey Kurt, They claim they can get 100mph+ on ice, but they're using a
500hp Chevy big block or some such engine. :-)
Yeah I knew it was not really workable except maybe to win some STOL
competetions. Did you see that they have a 6 blade hub?
Rex
kurt schrader wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>Hey Rex,
>
>Gald to see you getting out.
>
>The Russian Bear Bomber was very fast with
>counter-rotating props. Fastest big prop plane I know
>of.
>
>Those props you saw though are for low speed only.
>Someone has to make a high speed version or you will
>have a fantastic takeoff and climb, but a 65 mph top
>speed.
>
>Prop weight has to be considered.... :-(
>
>Glider tow? Heck, at low speed you could pull a
>manure spreader with that prop. Lot's a low end
>power.
>
>Now if we had a counter rotating, 100 knot, 20 lb Warp
>drive.... No torque to fight on takeoff either.
>
>Kurt S.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Rex, at close examination of the web page it appears to me that those props
aren't counter rotating. Take a look at the through prop bolts. Or am I
missing something?
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex" <gypsybee@copper.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Thrust...Overrated?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
>
> I was out motorcycle riding with some friends last weekend and saw one
> of these airboats with the newer propeller drives. The one I saw had a
> counter rotating system with 2 sets of 4 blade propellers for a total of
> 16 blades! This was all new stuff to me. I wonder if there may be some
> way to adapt some simple version for kit planes? Interesting stuff.
> http://www.classicairboats.com/pages/props.html
>
> Rex
> Florida
>
> kurt schrader wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Hi Clem,
> >
> >I would really like to see more prop testing on our
> >planes too. There are a lot of considerations with
> >the different engines and Fox models, but we have so
> >many opportunities.
> >
> >What engine is he running the wood prop on the Rans?
> >Maybe someone with the same engine here would benefit.
> > Generally speaking, the 2 blade should be the best
> >compromise.
> >
> >Someone who really knows what they are doing with prop
> >aerodynamics would probably make the best blades out
> >of composit, due to the ability to form it better.
> >
> >Kurt S.
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Karla and Rex Hefferan
> Gypsy Bee Innkeepers
> 719-651-5198 or 719-651-9192
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Hydraulic brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the good ideas for trouble shooting the caliper for cracks. I might
have to move up to the bench to get a good look.
Larry,
Thanks for the feedback. I do think that the brakes would benifit from a fresh
brake in. I also highly suspect that you could right on target when you mention
the mechanical advantage ratio. I will have to look into that as well.
Thanks for all the replies!
Mike
M4 speedster 912
Larry Martin <CrownLJ@verizon.net> wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry
Martin"
Mike,
Most of the problems with the Matco brakes stem from the installation =
of them. By this I mean that the brake is a brake - same laws of physic =
as any other. If you are experiencing poor braking, it is most likely =
due to the design of the rudder/brake pedal to brake piston linkage not =
allowing the required mechanical advantage which has to be a minimum of =
3:1. Check out Matco's website for the details/drawings. Additionally, =
the KF's brake pedal assy does need some reinforcing, as they are prone =
to crack. This can be done easily by adding a gusset across that =
corner, or there is a retro kit available. As for the leaking, I am =
assuming that you have plastic lines going to the master cylinder at the =
pedal? I had a heck of a time getting the lines tight without deforming =
the compression "washer" over the plastic line. I ended up using a =
brass insert in the line, and then the compression "washer" to help =
prevent it from deforming and leaking. Even at that, it took a couple =
tries to get it right without leaks. I have been successful for a year =
or so now - hope I didn't just ask for trouble! I had a terrible time =
with the brakes on mine, but all is sorted out now and I still have the =
Matco brakes and am completely satisfied. If you think that you did not =
brake in the pads correctly, put a sander on the pad to remove any glaze =
and then use the procedure as per the Matco instructions. Again, to =
compare brands - they are all working with the same laws of physics and =
are working with the same principles of operation and they even look the =
same dimensionally. I think that you would experience the same problems =
regardless of the name on the part. I would continue to trouble shoot, =
and save the $$ and thoughts of changing names.
When I got my airplane, I could not turn onto the runway without =
getting out and moving the tail. I would not fly anywhere I thought I =
would need brakes. After much help from Matco, I discovered that my =
airplane and a 1:1.2 ratio instead of the needed 1:3 min. After making =
the required changes - I am most satisfied!
Remember - this is fun!
Larry
Time: 08:06:44 PM PST US
From: Mike Ford
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford
How many other people out there have Cleveland brakes? Do you like =
them? I have
just recently broken the left control arm off of my model 4's rudder =
pedal.
About two weeks before that, I was attempting to fix a small weep at the =
caliper
(weeping at the fitting). After I got the pedals bled, I'd test them =
out. I've
always had a hard time breaking the tail wheel free when spinning to the =
right.
I would also have a hard time getting the plane to go straight after a
successful spin to the left (which is why I looked into the brake fluid =
weep in
the first place)
When testing the brakes, I'd use them in a heavy manner trying to get =
them to hold
enough to spin the plane, but I ended up fatiguing the rudder pedal =
assembly
instead.
I've tried to the weep about 7 times, even took it to an A&P, but all =
the fussing
has ended up making the leak worse. I would now be happy with the leak =
I had
before trouble shooting.
I'm currently having my pedals fixed and reinforced.
Are Cleveland brakes a world of difference?
I've also read up on the brake it procedure for the Matco brakes. I =
have not tried
it yet. I was told that they look to be worn in correctly.
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rex,
With 500 HP, you could get a John Deere up to 100 MPH
on ice.
I think with that arrangement they have a heck of an
air powered dragster up to maybe 60. After that, they
have too much prop. 100 mph is probably where the
engine just over revs without enough prop pitch.
That Russian Bear Bomber made a lot of noise. Pilots
who flew intercept said that its prop noise dround out
their own jets. I doubt that the Russians worried
about that though.
I saw the hub. Getting near a piston powered fan jet.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- Rex <gypsybee@copper.net> wrote:
> Hey Kurt, They claim they can get 100mph+ on ice,
> but they're using a
> 500hp Chevy big block or some such engine. :-)
> Yeah I knew it was not really workable except maybe
> to win some STOL
> competetions. Did you see that they have a 6 blade
> hub?
> Rex
__________________________________________________
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thrust - Over Rated-Overstated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
The slip or cavitation is something that surprised me as I tried to find the
best pitch for my Avid Flyer. That engine is a 582 with 2.58:1 gears and a
68" GSC. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I believe my overpitched
static rpm was 5800 regardless of 15 degrees setting or 17 degrees. The
funny part was that with 17 degrees pitch it pulled my rpms down to around
4200 as my airspeed climbed. 15 degrees must have been the edge of the
static stall as the rpm's increased with airspeed from that setting. Sorry
if my describing the pitch in degrees is confusing. GSC uses a protractor
which relates to the actual pitch. You guys are way over my head on most
of this, but I'm trying to keep up. Ron NB Ore
PS: Short post due to exccess time on hand.
>From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Thrust - Over Rated
>Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 22:12:29 -0700 (PDT)
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
><smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>You guys are too fast for me to get back to you...
>Simple becomes complex, or is it just me lately? You
>are right. I don't have time to shorten this!
>
>
>
>Those little racers that are trying to get as much as
>possible out of the same size little engine use props
>that are way over-pitched for takeoff. I was told
>they were stalled at the beginning of the roll, but
>now I don't know. Isn't someone here a racer who can
>tell us? Maybe they are still light enough to get
>going stalled then the prop grabs when it unstalls on
>the roll.
>Whew....
>
>Kurt S.
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
Deke, Yes you are correct and I appologize that I didn't make it clear
that the link was not going to display the version I observed. Here is a
link from the company that makes the counter rotation drive. In
Australia no less.
http://www.airboatindustries.com.au/counter_rotating_prop.html
Check out this photo! (only a 12 blade configuration)
http://www.airboatindustries.com.au/images/whatis/propeller2.jpg
Rex
Florida
Fox5flyer wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
>Rex, at close examination of the web page it appears to me that those props
>aren't counter rotating. Take a look at the through prop bolts. Or am I
>missing something?
>Deke
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: brakes malcolm |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rexster" <runwayrex@juno.com>
I'd be willing to sell my Matcos. I have no interest in them now that I'=
ve installed and experienced the Clevelands.
Rex Phelps/ Michigan
-- Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
do the matko brakes come un labeled ? any body want to sell me there ol=
d =
ones? I will call matko. thank you Rex ,Ray ,Deek, Bradly, =
=
malcolm Michigan
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
<html><P>I'd be willing to sell my Matcos. I have no interest in them no=
w that I've installed and experienced the Clevelands.</P>
<P>Rex Phelps/ Michigan</P>
<P><BR><BR>-- Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote:<BR>--> Kitfox-=
List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com<BR><BR>do=
the matko brakes come un labeled ?&n=
bsp;any body want to sell me there &n=
bsp;old <BR>ones? I will call =
;matko. thank you Rex =
,Ray ,Deek, Bradly, &=
nbsp; <BR>malcolm &n=
=
=
- The Kitfox-List Email Forum -<BR>=
Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Brow=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
=
=
;Check out the All New Matronics Email&nbs=
p; &nbs=
p; &nbs=
p; &nbs=
=
=
sp; - List Cont=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; &=
=
=
<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><B=
R><BR><BR></P></html>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Rans S6S prop,,,, was Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
"So a Fox with a 912S could try their prop.... Any
takers?
Kurt S."
Rans tells me that the prop that they use is a Sensinich ; W68T4RR-63.
If my math is right, and there is no slippage, the 63" pitch equates to
135.093 mph at 5500 with the 912S.
THAT would be a nice cruise! ;-)
Hmmmm,,, I may need to check the price. I have kinda been avoiding wood so
I don't have to worry about humidity affects or flying in rain.
Randy
--- Clem Nichols <cnichols@scrtc.com> wrote:
> Kurt:
>
> Standard engine on the Rans S6S is a Rotax 912S.
__________________________________________________
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912S/ oil cooler efficiency |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple <fredshiple@sbcglobal.net>
John,
The cooler measures 3"x6 1/2" by 2" deep. The inlet is 2"x6 1/2". I calibrated
the sensor and cooler in a boiling water bath as I had no other sensor available.
Have included the photos of the installation.
We're visiting our adult children in San Francisco this week-end so my internet
access may be limited.
I hope you're flying well. We met about 4 years ago at Oshkosh and you were
gratious enough to answer a lot of my installation questions. Thanks for your
help now.
Fred
I have a Series 6 powered by a 912S and haven't had excessively high oil
temperatures in hot weather. Have y
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | RE: Hydraulic brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
I sure would like to know how you did it. Mine basically suck. The design is
flawed, and while I'm no engineer, I can see that it doesn't work as good as
it could.
What happens on mine is that the point of "impact" on the brake pad is not
inline with the brake pad. This causes the pad plate to flex and twist when
the caliper applies pressure. When it flexes, it tries to torque on the
sliders, binding them up instead of sliding. Basically, the sliders are too
far away from the center of pressure, introducing a fulcrum, of sorts, to
the assembly. Instead of sliding, it binds up and tries to rotate. So my
peddle pressure is not only squeezing the disc, it is having to overcome the
friction created from the binding on the sliders.
It sounds like others are having similar problems. I called Matco, and they
told me that I needed to ensure I was getting 450psi minimum at the caliper.
Agreed, 2.5:1 is the drawing. But he said that you do what you have to, to
get 450psi.
He said to port into the bleed location, and then inline between the caliper
and the master cylinder. This might show where the problem lies.
Either way, I shouldn't be getting full master cylinder travel when I pres
on them. Between the binding and the squeezing, the master cylinder should
linearly increase resistance as I push on it, regardless of the caliper
issues, until I can't push it anymore. I'm bottoming out.
Now I could be leaking past the seals internally, and I suspect that. But I
sure would like to have a better caliper design.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Martin
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:35 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Hydraulic brakes
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <CrownLJ@verizon.net>
Mike,
Most of the problems with the Matco brakes stem from the installation =
of them. By this I mean that the brake is a brake - same laws of physic =
as any other. If you are experiencing poor braking, it is most likely =
due to the design of the rudder/brake pedal to brake piston linkage not =
allowing the required mechanical advantage which has to be a minimum of =
3:1. Check out Matco's website for the details/drawings. Additionally, =
the KF's brake pedal assy does need some reinforcing, as they are prone =
to crack. This can be done easily by adding a gusset across that =
corner, or there is a retro kit available. As for the leaking, I am =
assuming that you have plastic lines going to the master cylinder at the =
pedal? I had a heck of a time getting the lines tight without deforming =
the compression "washer" over the plastic line. I ended up using a =
brass insert in the line, and then the compression "washer" to help =
prevent it from deforming and leaking. Even at that, it took a couple =
tries to get it right without leaks. I have been successful for a year =
or so now - hope I didn't just ask for trouble! I had a terrible time =
with the brakes on mine, but all is sorted out now and I still have the =
Matco brakes and am completely satisfied. If you think that you did not =
brake in the pads correctly, put a sander on the pad to remove any glaze =
and then use the procedure as per the Matco instructions. Again, to =
compare brands - they are all working with the same laws of physics and =
are working with the same principles of operation and they even look the =
same dimensionally. I think that you would experience the same problems =
regardless of the name on the part. I would continue to trouble shoot, =
and save the $$ and thoughts of changing names.
When I got my airplane, I could not turn onto the runway without =
getting out and moving the tail. I would not fly anywhere I thought I =
would need brakes. After much help from Matco, I discovered that my =
airplane and a 1:1.2 ratio instead of the needed 1:3 min. After making =
the required changes - I am most satisfied!
Remember - this is fun!
Larry
Time: 08:06:44 PM PST US
From: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hydraulic brakes
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Ford <fordm2003@yahoo.com>
How many other people out there have Cleveland brakes? Do you like =
them? I have
just recently broken the left control arm off of my model 4's rudder =
pedal.
About two weeks before that, I was attempting to fix a small weep at the =
caliper
(weeping at the fitting). After I got the pedals bled, I'd test them =
out. I've
always had a hard time breaking the tail wheel free when spinning to the =
right.
I would also have a hard time getting the plane to go straight after a
successful spin to the left (which is why I looked into the brake fluid =
weep in
the first place)
When testing the brakes, I'd use them in a heavy manner trying to get =
them to hold
enough to spin the plane, but I ended up fatiguing the rudder pedal =
assembly
instead.
I've tried to the weep about 7 times, even took it to an A&P, but all =
the fussing
has ended up making the leak worse. I would now be happy with the leak =
I had
before trouble shooting.
I'm currently having my pedals fixed and reinforced.
Are Cleveland brakes a world of difference?
I've also read up on the brake it procedure for the Matco brakes. I =
have not tried
it yet. I was told that they look to be worn in correctly.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List:matco |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Malcolmbru@aol.com
About 10 years ago I met Mr. matco. his real name is polish
something-mat-ski -CO I was taking a kola firestar to Oshkosh on the SS Badger
crossing
Lake Michigan when he came up to me and started a conversation. he seemed
real nice and warned me to be careful with my UL, he was not an aviator. and
was going to spend some time in northern Wisconsin before going to the air
show later in the week. I still have the card he gave me. mal
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re Hydraulic :Brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <CrownLJ@verizon.net>
Kitfox-List: RE: RE: Hydraulic brakesBradley,
With regards to the calipers and pads; I polished the slides by =
mounting in a drill press and sanding and emery paper. I also slightly =
increased the diameter of the holes that the sliders slide through. =
Initially by sanding, then more aggressively with a reamer. I also =
found that it is important to tighten the bolts that connect the =
stationary brake shoe to the caliper or puck house to be equal in =
torque. I found that this torque relative to each other will "allow" =
the shoes to move freer, or bind up. There is no magic number, just =
tighten them up equally, and try it. I found that after a few =
adjustments of trail and error, it works great. I did the adjusting =
with no brake pressure, just moving the pad in and out by hand. I =
adjusted it this way first and then once it was all assembled, I fine =
tuned it.
I found also that my master cylinders were a bear to bleed. I used =
a pressure bleeder from the bottom up, but found that it was best to =
have the pedal disconnected and the master cylinder piston fully =
extended. Despite this, it still took many attempts to get all of the =
air out. Don't get me wrong - there were times when I wanted to change =
brake companies, but reason prevailed, and I endured the testing of my =
patients. Now that the installation problems are sorted out, I have =
enjoyed these brakes since Nov 02 with no problems.
I hope that this helps.
Larry
Subject: RE: RE: Hydraulic brakes
From: Bradley M Webb (bmwebb@cox.net)
Date: Thu May 11 - 5:03 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
I sure would like to know how you did it. Mine basically suck. The =
design is
flawed, and while I'm no engineer, I can see that it doesn't work as =
good as
it could.
What happens on mine is that the point of "impact" on the brake pad is =
not
inline with the brake pad. This causes the pad plate to flex and twist =
when
the caliper applies pressure. When it flexes, it tries to torque on the
sliders, binding them up instead of sliding. Basically, the sliders are =
too
far away from the center of pressure, introducing a fulcrum, of sorts, =
to
the assembly. Instead of sliding, it binds up and tries to rotate. So my
peddle pressure is not only squeezing the disc, it is having to overcome =
the
friction created from the binding on the sliders.
It sounds like others are having similar problems. I called Matco, and =
they
told me that I needed to ensure I was getting 450psi minimum at the =
caliper.
Agreed, 2.5:1 is the drawing. But he said that you do what you have to, =
to
get 450psi.
He said to port into the bleed location, and then inline between the =
caliper
and the master cylinder. This might show where the problem lies.
Either way, I shouldn't be getting full master cylinder travel when I =
pres
on them. Between the binding and the squeezing, the master cylinder =
should
linearly increase resistance as I push on it, regardless of the caliper
issues, until I can't push it anymore. I'm bottoming out.
Now I could be leaking past the seals internally, and I suspect that. =
But I
sure would like to have a better caliper design.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry =
Martin
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:35 AM
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Rans S6S prop,,,, was Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Yes Randy,
135 mph! "Wooden" that be neat? Ha ha
Probably not the best prop on floats if made of wood.
It immediately strikes me as a nice thing to know:
the no slip speed minus the actual cruise = the slip.
Knowing the slip is another way of measuring your
plane's drag.
Just thinking.....
Too much time again and getting complex, I know.
Stopping,
kurt S.
--- Randy Daughenbaugh <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com> wrote:
> "So a Fox with a 912S could try their prop.... Any
> takers?
>
> Kurt S."
>
> Rans tells me that the prop that they use is a
> Sensinich ; W68T4RR-63.
>
> If my math is right, and there is no slippage, the
> 63" pitch equates to
> 135.093 mph at 5500 with the 912S.
>
> THAT would be a nice cruise! ;-)
>
> Hmmmm,,, I may need to check the price. I have
> kinda been avoiding wood so
> I don't have to worry about humidity affects or
> flying in rain.
>
> Randy
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Thrust...Overrated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Neat idea. Glad someone is studying it, but I wonder
about their claims. Most props are better than 80%
efficient. Even the first flight was done with props
over 80%. So how can you get a 25% improvement?
I think they are measuring static thrust and, as we
discussed earlier, that is, ahhhh "Overrated" as a
factor. But prop efficiency is usually low
statically, so there they could make the claim.
The other problem is that counter rotation means
cautious rotation. Props flex in flight. You could
be risking a prop collision if doing acro with this.
The props would gyroscopic precess in opposite
directions and bend opposite. Spacing between hubs is
important.
Lots to consider, but if we could really make it
better, I am all for it.
Kurt S. S-5
--- Rex <gypsybee@copper.net> wrote:
> Deke, Yes you are correct and I appologize that I
> didn't make it clear
> that the link was not going to display the version I
> observed. Here is a
> link from the company that makes the counter
> rotation drive. In
> Australia no less.
>
http://www.airboatindustries.com.au/counter_rotating_prop.html
>
> Check out this photo! (only a 12 blade
> configuration)
>
http://www.airboatindustries.com.au/images/whatis/propeller2.jpg
>
> Rex
> Florida
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| Subject: | Re: Thrust - Over Rated-Overstated? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Ron,
Great to have you jump in and yes that is good info
you give. You made it practical, not just
theoritical. "Cavitation" = good word. Like a
spinning tire, when it grabs, RPM drops, but plane
accellerates.
Kurt S.
PS: It is storming out - lots of time. :-)
--- ron schick <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The slip or cavitation is something that surprised
> me as I tried to find the
> best pitch for my Avid Flyer. That engine is a 582
> with 2.58:1 gears and a
> 68" GSC. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I
> believe my overpitched
> static rpm was 5800 regardless of 15 degrees setting
> or 17 degrees. The
> funny part was that with 17 degrees pitch it pulled
> my rpms down to around
> 4200 as my airspeed climbed. 15 degrees must have
> been the edge of the
> static stall as the rpm's increased with airspeed
> from that setting. Sorry
> if my describing the pitch in degrees is confusing.
> GSC uses a protractor
> which relates to the actual pitch. You guys are
> way over my head on most
> of this, but I'm trying to keep up. Ron NB Ore
> PS: Short post due to exccess time on hand.
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| Subject: | Re Hydraulic :Brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
I have the matco brakes on my Model IV-1200. I had a bad problem on not
working properly, the hydraulic plunger that pushes on the brake pad binds.
I rounded out the outsides of the holes so the rod that they slide on onlly
touched in the middle. This way they could tilt and not bind. First 40
hours hell to make work, next 1100 hours fine. Clint
From: "Larry Martin" <CrownLJ@verizon.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re Hydraulic :Brakes
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <CrownLJ@verizon.net>
Kitfox-List: RE: RE: Hydraulic brakesBradley,
With regards to the calipers and pads; I polished the slides by =
mounting in a drill press and sanding and emery paper. I also slightly =
increased the diameter of the holes that the sliders slide through. =
Initially by sanding, then more aggressively with a reamer. I also =
found that it is important to tighten the bolts that connect the =
stationary brake shoe to the caliper or puck house to be equal in =
torque. I found that this torque relative to each other will "allow" =
the shoes to move freer, or bind up. There is no magic number, just =
tighten them up equally, and try it. I found that after a few =
adjustments of trail and error, it works great. I did the adjusting =
with no brake pressure, just moving the pad in and out by hand. I =
adjusted it this way first and then once it was all assembled, I fine =
tuned it.
I found also that my master cylinders were a bear to bleed. I used =
a pressure bleeder from the bottom up, but found that it was best to =
have the pedal disconnected and the master cylinder piston fully =
extended. Despite this, it still took many attempts to get all of the =
air out. Don't get me wrong - there were times when I wanted to change =
brake companies, but reason prevailed, and I endured the testing of my =
patients. Now that the installation problems are sorted out, I have =
enjoyed these brakes since Nov 02 with no problems.
I hope that this helps.
Larry
Subject: RE: RE: Hydraulic brakes
From: Bradley M Webb (bmwebb@cox.net)
Date: Thu May 11 - 5:03 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
I sure would like to know how you did it. Mine basically suck. The =
design is
flawed, and while I'm no engineer, I can see that it doesn't work as =
good as
it could.
What happens on mine is that the point of "impact" on the brake pad is =
not
inline with the brake pad. This causes the pad plate to flex and twist =
when
the caliper applies pressure. When it flexes, it tries to torque on the
sliders, binding them up instead of sliding. Basically, the sliders are =
too
far away from the center of pressure, introducing a fulcrum, of sorts, =
to
the assembly. Instead of sliding, it binds up and tries to rotate. So my
peddle pressure is not only squeezing the disc, it is having to overcome =
the
friction created from the binding on the sliders.
It sounds like others are having similar problems. I called Matco, and =
they
told me that I needed to ensure I was getting 450psi minimum at the =
caliper.
Agreed, 2.5:1 is the drawing. But he said that you do what you have to, =
to
get 450psi.
He said to port into the bleed location, and then inline between the =
caliper
and the master cylinder. This might show where the problem lies.
Either way, I shouldn't be getting full master cylinder travel when I =
pres
on them. Between the binding and the squeezing, the master cylinder =
should
linearly increase resistance as I push on it, regardless of the caliper
issues, until I can't push it anymore. I'm bottoming out.
Now I could be leaking past the seals internally, and I suspect that. =
But I
sure would like to have a better caliper design.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry =
Martin
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:35 AM
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