Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:50 AM - Oil pressure (John Anderson)
2. 02:34 AM - SV: Kitfox tanks and blended ethanol (Michel Verheughe)
3. 06:31 AM - Re: Auto Fuel (Andrew Matthaey)
4. 06:31 AM - Fuel Tank Construction (Guy Buchanan)
5. 06:31 AM - Re: Kitfox tanks and blended ethanol (Guy Buchanan)
6. 07:53 AM - Re: Subaru EA81, Dave Johnson redrive conversion, mount for Model II, III FOR SALE (wingsdown)
7. 08:09 AM - Re: Auto Fuel (Randy Daughenbaugh)
8. 09:16 AM - Nose Wheel Shimmy (Roger McConnell)
9. 09:29 AM - Re: Corn Gas - Auto Fuel (Dave and Diane)
10. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Pedal torque tube bushings? Question? (kurt schrader)
11. 03:05 PM - Two New Email Lists at Matronics and Wiki Reminder! (Matt Dralle)
12. 03:27 PM - Re: Flaperon skin thickness (icaza francisco)
13. 03:59 PM - Re: Nose Wheel Shimmy (ron schick)
14. 09:13 PM - Re: Flaperon skin thickness (Tim Vader)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Kurt, I have new bearings, new oil pump (EA 82) and not a hole lot higher
than your pressures. Are they so low? Remember on the car it only has a
light that comes on at about 8-10 psi. I've been running mineral multi-grade
to run the engine in but changed to semi-synthetic today so will be
interested to see if there's a change. John
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Subaru EA81, Dave Johnson redrive conversion,
mount for Model II, III FOR SALE
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
I am using non-synthetic Castrol 20W50. OK temps on
the last flight of around 190-195, but 40-50 psi.
More around 40. I usually see a good 50. This last
few months the pressure has dropped and been variable,
but no leaks?
I bought some aviation 100 weight (from Sams Club in
FL) to try out. Have you used this?
If it gets hotter than this flight I can not pull to
idle and keep the pressure above 30 psi. That is what
I worry most about, idle pressure for landing. I have
seen it go to 20 on rollout, so I keep the rpm up.
I know there is very little force on the bearings at
idle, but I want to keep that front bearing out of
trouble.
I wish it had roller bearings on the crank.
Kurt S.
--- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown"
><wingsdown@comcast.net>
>
>Kurt,
>
>What pressure are you seeing and at what temp? Are
>you using a
>semi-synthetic. I had great results with Castrol
>20-50 Semi synthetic.
>
>Rick
__________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
Message 2
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| Subject: | Kitfox tanks and blended ethanol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Don Smythe [dosmythe@cox.net]
> West System Epoxy is similar to maple syrup.
Pretty much so! Indeed, Don, although the taste is slightly different! :-)
I know it would be difficult because, if it wasn't ... everybody would already
do it. I am certainly not a genius and will not pretend I know things better than
others. I simply thought that the idea was worth investigating.
I know that, in a relatively cold environment, say 15 degrees C, with the correct
mixture, epoxy will take a few hours to turn jelly, then hard. Say, one could
get a long bead of epoxy at the bottom of the tank. Then turn it 45 degrees
for say, 20 minutes, and so on. I think that, even maple syrup would get a chance
to flow by gravity.
Of course, it would require careful testing. My hope was that, you guys, were doing
the testing, then give me the correct recipie so that I can do the same in
the correct way. ... (just kidding!) :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Ignorant question here...why is Ethanol harmful to run in our motors again??
Andrew
>From: "flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Auto Fuel
>Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 15:58:48 -0500
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>
>The federal law to implement ethanol as opposed to MTBE will likely change
>that, right?
>
>As far as I understand, there won't be any MTBE left due to the
>congressional mandate...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Zimmermans
>Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:01 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Auto Fuel
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Zimmermans" <jezim@pro-ns.net>
>
>Here in Minnesota we have 10% ethanol. The street rodders went to the =
>legislature and got an exemption for old cars, rods and boats or any =
>recreational toy. It is available at a lot of stations. This might be =
>worth trying before all your mo gas has ethanol.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fuel Tank Construction |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
All,
I contacted one of my consultant buddies regarding underground
fuel tanks. Here's what he wrote:
"I'd hate to admit how many chemical storage tanks I've got under my belt,
none for gas though, and I'm never very involved in the resin corrosion
resistance selection.
Vinylester / glass is the norm for chemical tanks, depending on the type of
chemical they'll use vinylester with different additives. Goggle these and
you should find some info.
Dion Resin
Derakane Resin
Hetron Resin
AOC resin
A typical specification would have a corrosion barrier of about 0.100",
Then the structural laminate. The CB's first layer would be veil, like
'remay' usually a "spun-bound" polyester mat, very thin, about
0.010"basically just to hold resin, then two layers of 1.5oz mat (about
0.043" each), these layers are typically very resin rich to eliminate
migration paths along fibers, There are probably lighter ways of doing
this, these types of specs are very excepted for on ground or under ground
storage, "
Not specifically for gas, but I'm willing to be the basics will be the
same, primarily the vinylester resin.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox tanks and blended ethanol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 01:09 PM 5/28/2006, you wrote:
>Would that stuff slosh before it hardens? I thought
>even the slow stuff gets stiff fast. At least the
>stuff in hobby shops.
Oh yes. Structural epoxy has a pot life in hours, and you can get a wide
selection of catalysts depending on your temperature/humidity.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Subaru EA81, Dave Johnson redrive conversion, mount for |
Model II, III FOR SALE
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I believe the semi-synthetic will be more stable. Done quite a bit of
research over the years, no degree but much reading and question asking.
Actually a high quality multi will be more stable at higher temps than
it single weight cousin. Synthetic are always better at higher temps
with one exception. When the reach the critical temp of around 360F the
fail catastrophically not gradually. Cant remember the actual temp.
Don't use the aviation oil. It is not designed for the tight tolerances
in the modern engines. And according to one of the leading aviation oil
rep whose name and company I will leave out, informed me automotive oils
far exceed aviations oil in additive packages due to their ash less
requirement. I think the Castro GTX semi 20-50 will solve your problem
and give you better protection all the way around. If you run automotive
fuel the by all means go to a full synthetic.
Now the issue of why things have changed. It could be serious or just
coincidental to maybe something you haven't noticed.
Worse case bearings have worn and tolerances have opened up a bit. Not
unheard of or necessarily that bad. Oil pump bypass spring weak and not
holding pressure as it shold. Easy replacement or fix. Might try
shimming the spring a bit. This will have the effect of raising pressure
on both ends od the scale cols and hot since the spring is not
progresive. If you look in the manual you will see a diagram, I think.
Or could just be the oil has become diluted for what ever reason and
just needs a change. I think you temps are good for a lot of reasons.
Also agree the pressur e should stay above 30 to keep bearings alive. If
you oil cooler capacity is large enough you should be able to do a
standard pattern approach and be cool enough for a safe final power back
landing and taxi.
Your right 20PSI is too low even for taxi and bearings can be damaged. I
think the 20-50 semi will help , some. Think I would look into a higher
capacity cooler or better heat exchange area/ configuration.
Roller bearing are another bag altogether. Great for super high reving
engines but are very susceptible to damage from detonation. Let us know
what you do and the results.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 11:00 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Subaru EA81, Dave Johnson redrive conversion,
mount for Model II, III FOR SALE
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
I am using non-synthetic Castrol 20W50. OK temps on
the last flight of around 190-195, but 40-50 psi.
More around 40. I usually see a good 50. This last
few months the pressure has dropped and been variable,
but no leaks?
I bought some aviation 100 weight (from Sams Club in
FL) to try out. Have you used this?
If it gets hotter than this flight I can not pull to
idle and keep the pressure above 30 psi. That is what
I worry most about, idle pressure for landing. I have
seen it go to 20 on rollout, so I keep the rpm up.
I know there is very little force on the bearings at
idle, but I want to keep that front bearing out of
trouble.
I wish it had roller bearings on the crank.
Kurt S.
--- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown"
> <wingsdown@comcast.net>
>
> Kurt,
>
> What pressure are you seeing and at what temp? Are
> you using a
> semi-synthetic. I had great results with Castrol
> 20-50 Semi synthetic.
>
> Rick
__________________________________________________
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Ignorant question here...why is Ethanol harmful to run in our motors again??
Andrew
Andrew,
I will take a whack at this one.
A. It is corrosive to some materials
B. It attacks some elastomers.
C. Even if there are no materials of construction issues in your tank,
hoses or carbs, it raises vapor pressure and thus can increase the risk of
vapor lock problems. This, of course, gets worse at altitude.
D. For two strokes there is greater risk of phase separation in the
presence of a little water. This can lead to all kinds of problems. Many
chainsaw have succumbed to this problem.
I like to burn E-10 in my cars and trucks, but I prefer straight hydrocarbon
fuels for my 912S.
Randy
Message 8
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| Subject: | Nose Wheel Shimmy |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
I got a question for you guy or gals that fly unconventional gear Kitfoxs.
Every sense installing the faring on the nose wheel, I have had a
reoccurring shimmy.
I have tightened the pivot nut on the strut and have also added some
pressure to the tire. I thought I had it fixed but after going out and
flying this morning, before the wind got up, it did it again when I landed.
Is there something I haven't tried or I'm doing wrong.
Roger Mac
S7/912s
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Corn Gas - Auto Fuel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
There probably is a lot more to be said about yet about this subject; I see no
one has talked much about the energy content, but we have touched a bit on
the vapor presasure issue.
Corn gas (what we call ethanol in the US - Midwest - probably need to change
that to "cane gas" where it is made from sugar cane) has a couple
characteristics that make it unique in addition to the structural effects on
our equipment.
1) Energy content:
Pure ethanol has approximately 60% of the BTUs of non-ethanol gasoline. A car
which gets 20 MPG on gasoline, will get 12 MPG if recalibrated to run on pure
ethanol (approximately) - everything else being equal (its not actually
equal, but it is close enough to equal for government work). If we use 10%
ethanol/90% gasoline, doing the math says we will get 94% of the energy out
of the 10% corn gas mix compared to non-corn gas. IT ALSO MEANS - we are
running lean by that same amount..... the larger percentage of ethanol, the
leaner we run; and, while a small addition of ethanol might go by unnoticed,
particularily if we have a mixture adjustment on our engine, more than a
little ethanol will mean that a carbureted engine will have to be re-jetted
if it is going to live and run on higher percentages of ethanol. Electronic
fuel injected engines have the ability to fine tune the mixture on our cars
to some degree; and, what we call "flex fuel" EFI cars can run on anything
from 100% gasoline to 85% ethanol by making the rather dramatic mixture
adjustments necessary for this - you could not do that with a carburetor - it
would need to be rejetted.
The Variable venturi carburetors on rotax engines, as I understand it, can
adjust the mixture automatically according to ambient pressure (as with
changes in altitude) But I don't believe they can make the adjustments for
energy content of the fuel - it works differently than the leaning adjustment
on a continental or lycoming which controls the fuel flow - not the air flow.
So.... maybe a rotax can get along on small admixtures of ethanol, but I would
be inclined to take the factory's recommendations since they are the best
source of what works and what doesn't.
2) Vapor pressure: Gasoline and ethanol are not the same. Ethanol, by itself,
is more volatile than gasoline and vaporizes more easily at low pressures,
particularily if it is warm (like at 12,000 feet in New Mexico in August).
Ethanol is a single chemical compound of fairly short structure. Gasoline is a
generous mixture of short and long chain hydrocarbons (heptane, hexane,
octane, nanotane, etc, etc; as well as isomers of each) - causing it to have
both low vapor pressure components and high vapor pressure components - as a
matter of fact in Minne-snowta, the oil companies are kind enough to change
the porportions of short chain to long chain ratios in gasoline seasonally so
the dumb stuff won't vapor lock in the summer and your car will actually
start in the winter - seems the gas has to vaporize a little in order to burn
at all. Basically, you can't change the ratios of short chain to long chain
hydrocarbons with ethanol, because, ethanol, by definition, is a single
compound, not a mixture of compounds like gasoline.
Some parts of the world. Like Brazil, have had a lot of experience (20 +
years) with ethanol in their cars and there has to be a body of information
out there about what works and what doesn't.
Really hoping that EAA will have some updates to their auto gas information.
Later,
Dave S.
St Paul, MN
Do Not Archive
On Monday 29 May 2006 10:08 am, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
>
> Ignorant question here...why is Ethanol harmful to run in our motors
> again??
>
>
> Andrew
>
> Andrew,
> I will take a whack at this one.
>
> A. It is corrosive to some materials
> B. It attacks some elastomers.
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Pedal torque tube bushings? Question? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Based upon what someone posted a while back on the
list, I started using chain lube last year for these
type applications. It flows in very well, but forms
kind of a wax coating that seems to stay put. Also it
does not soak in dirt like oils do.
I was once told that oils attack these bearings
anyway, but haven`t tested that.
I have also used silicon spray, and it works, but only
for a short period.
In some places I use silicon grease at that is a bit
better, but holds dirt.
Anyone have any better lubricants to use?
Kurt S.
--- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I put ball and needle bearings in my camera mount
> system replacing Delrin
> and got a significant improvement in smoothness.
> One thing I noticed is
> that with the delrin bushings, if the systam was
> left in a set position for
> any time, any lubrication was squeezed out of the
> pivot and the first
> movement was a pop or jerk then smooth movement as
> the lube took over.
>
> Actually the reason for the post is the bearing
> source I found - good
> service, any quantity and they deal with people like
> us - hobbyists.
>
> http://www.bocabearings.com/
>
> Lowell
__________________________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Two New Email Lists at Matronics and Wiki Reminder! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I have added two new email Lists to the Matronics Line up today. These include
a Continental engine List and a Lightning aircraft List:
===========
continental-list@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Continental-List
Everything related to the Continental aircraft engine. Sky's the limit on discussions
here.
===========
===========
lightning-list@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
This is an exciting new design from Arion Aircraft LLC in Shelbyville Tennessee. Pete Krotje has a very nice web site on the aircraft that can be found here: http://www.arionaircraft.com/
===========
Also, if you haven't checked out the new Matronics Aircraft Wiki, swing by and
have a look. Remember, a Wiki is only as good as the content that the members
put into it. Have a look over some of the sections, and if you've got some interesting
or useful, please add it to the Wiki! Its all about YOU! :-) The
URL for the Matronics Wiki is:
http://wiki.matronics.com
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon skin thickness |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
Tim,
What kind of damage does your flaperon has? How will
you repair the skin?
Thanks,
Francisco.
--- PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com> escribi:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson
> <pwmac@sisna.com>
>
> If were you I would go the building supply place
> and get the
> thinnest Al they sell. Last time I did that I found
> it was 0.016"
> thick. It is hardened so if you need some bend then
> you will have to
> anneal/normalize it with your torch. Its unlikely
> that Skystar used
> anything thinner.
>
> Regards, Paul
> =================
>
> At 02:46 PM 5/26/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tim Vader"
> <vadert@telusplanet.net>
> >
> >Hi
> > Can anyone tell me the the thickness of the
> flaperon skin on a Model =
> >IV 1200. I'm away from home and my construction
> manual, and would like =
> >to order aluminum to repair my flaperon.
> >
> >Tim Vader
> >Calgary, Canada
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________
La mejor conexin a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
Message 13
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| Subject: | Nose Wheel Shimmy |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Hi Roger I have to keep the air pressure down in the 152 nosewheel. The tire
carries on all of the tread not just the middle. Might help the Fox. Ron
NB Or
>From: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy
>Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 11:13:29 -0500
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
>
>I got a question for you guy or gals that fly unconventional gear Kitfoxs.
>Every sense installing the faring on the nose wheel, I have had a
>reoccurring shimmy.
>
>I have tightened the pivot nut on the strut and have also added some
>pressure to the tire. I thought I had it fixed but after going out and
>flying this morning, before the wind got up, it did it again when I landed.
>Is there something I haven't tried or I'm doing wrong.
>
>
> Roger Mac
>
> S7/912s
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon skin thickness |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tim Vader" <vadert@telusplanet.net>
Francisco;
In my unfortunate accident I snapped off the last few feet of my right
wing. When the wing hit the ground the last three feet of my right flaperon
also hit the ground and has some crinkled damage to the skin. The flaperon
spar is undamaged so I will cut and remove the damaged skin section, replace
the foam ribs on the spar and replace the skin overlapping and blind
riveting it to the undamaged skin on the inboard side. That's the plan
anyway, we'll see how it goes.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "icaza francisco" <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon skin thickness
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco
> <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
>
> Tim,
>
> What kind of damage does your flaperon has? How will
> you repair the skin?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Francisco.
>
>
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