---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/31/06: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:02 AM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answer (John Anderson) 2. 01:38 AM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answerWest System Epoxy answer (Rex Shaw) 3. 01:58 AM - SV: West System Epoxy answer (Michel Verheughe) 4. 03:43 AM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answerWest System Epoxy answer (Dave G.) 5. 04:00 AM - Aternative tanks. WAS:West System Epoxy answer (Michel Verheughe) 6. 04:39 AM - Re: fuel tanks (Don Smythe) 7. 04:50 AM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answer (Don Smythe) 8. 06:39 AM - Re: kitfox iv owners manual (Jimmie Blackwell) 9. 07:06 AM - Re: kitfox iv builders manual (jdmcbean) 10. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answer (Mike Chaney) 11. 08:28 AM - Any CFI with Kitfox in Illinois or Indiana? (Anliker, Mark) 12. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answer (Black Cat) 13. 09:10 AM - Re: Any CFI with Kitfox in Illinois or Indiana? (Ron Liebmann) 14. 09:18 AM - Re: Any CFI with Kitfox in Illinois or Indiana? (Mike Chaney) 15. 09:55 AM - Re: West System Epoxy answer (darinh) 16. 10:09 AM - 2001 Kitfox 4-1200 912ul for sale (Jay Fabian) 17. 10:25 AM - Wood Prop Advice (Michael Meyers) 18. 11:10 AM - Alternative material WAS: West System Epoxy answer (Michel Verheughe) 19. 12:30 PM - Poly tanks already made (ron schick) 20. 01:47 PM - Re: Wood Prop Advice (vft@aol.com) 21. 01:57 PM - Re: Flaperon skin thickness (icaza francisco) 22. 01:57 PM - Re: Wood Prop Advice (John Anderson) 23. 02:16 PM - Re: Wood Prop Advice (Andrew Matthaey) 24. 02:40 PM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answer (Bradley M Webb) 25. 02:56 PM - Re: Wood Prop Advice (Rueb, Duane) 26. 02:57 PM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answer (ron schick) 27. 03:29 PM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answer (Bradley M Webb) 28. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answer (AMuller589@aol.com) 29. 03:34 PM - oil pressure (Bill Flick) 30. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answer (ron schick) 31. 03:57 PM - Re: Nose Wheel Shimmy (Roger McConnell) 32. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: West System Epoxy answer (kurt schrader) 33. 04:44 PM - Re: fuel tanks (kurt schrader) 34. 05:26 PM - Re: tanks and alcohol fuels (Lowell Fitt) 35. 05:26 PM - Re: Wood Prop Advice (Jim Gilliatt) 36. 05:41 PM - Re: Nose Wheel Shimmy (wingsdown) 37. 06:12 PM - Re: oil pressure (wingsdown) 38. 07:32 PM - Re: Wood Prop Advice (John Anderson) 39. 08:09 PM - Re: Wood Prop Advice (Andrew Matthaey) 40. 08:40 PM - Re: Wood Prop Advice (Steve Wilson) 41. 08:52 PM - Re: Wood Prop Advice (John Anderson) 42. 08:54 PM - Re: Wood Prop Advice (vft@aol.com) 43. 09:32 PM - Re: Nose Wheel Shimmy (jdmcbean) 44. 10:38 PM - Fuel Tanks (James Shumaker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:17 AM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Most aircraft wings flex or (helicopter) vibrate so plastic or rubber are the way to go.~j~ From: "wingsdown" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" There has been discussion before. I believe SS stated wing flex as an issue. I am sure that could be over come, maybe not cheap, but better yet why not a fuel bladder for safety sake? Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" Anyone looked into the cost to have an aluminum tank fabricated? I don't know the feasability of this but it done in many other aircraft. Darin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=37529#37529 _________________________________________________________________ Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:30 AM PST US From: "Rex Shaw" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answerWest System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Shaw" I'm sure I don't know the whole story but Tony Schutte that built my = plane had previously built another one earlier and trashed it when the = Aluminium tanks leaked in flight and he put down in tiger country. As I = understand it there was a lot of the aluminium tanks that did this sort = of thing and Tony threatened to sue Skystar and they gave him either a = part or full new kit as compensation. Not sure of exact details. However = I won't be playing with aluminium tanks but I do remember some comment = from somewhere that the failures were due to mounting problems so I = guess there could be answers. All I'm saying is using aluminium tanks in = a Kitfox should be treated with caution and some research. Rex Shaw. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:20 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Don Smythe [dosmythe@cox.net] > I guess you ruined my day. I am sorry about that, Don. But we have to face it, in this big world of conflicting interests, the homebuilt aviation is only a tiny drop in the ocean and not worth being considered by our rulers. ... sometimes I wish I was an invalid black Jewish gay woman ... :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:55 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answerWest System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." Looks to me like there would be a buck or two in blow molded polyethylene tanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex Shaw" Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answerWest System Epoxy answer > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Shaw" > > I'm sure I don't know the whole story but Tony Schutte that built my = > plane had previously built another one earlier and trashed it when the = > Aluminium tanks leaked in flight and he put down in tiger country. As I = > understand it there was a lot of the aluminium tanks that did this sort = > of thing and Tony threatened to sue Skystar and they gave him either a = > part or full new kit as compensation. Not sure of exact details. However = > I won't be playing with aluminium tanks but I do remember some comment = > from somewhere that the failures were due to mounting problems so I = > guess there could be answers. All I'm saying is using aluminium tanks in = > a Kitfox should be treated with caution and some research. > Rex Shaw. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:28 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Aternative tanks. WAS:West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Dave G. [occom@ns.sympatico.ca] > Looks to me like there would be a buck or two in blow molded polyethylene > tanks. It certainly does, Dave. However, from this thermoplastic experience I have in dinghy construction, it requires to build first a mould out of aluminium cast. And that is a very expensive job that can only be considered if many tanks are produced. The question is then: How many tanks can be sold? Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:27 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fuel tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Mark, At the most I would consider filling the tanks then draining through a separate filter then reuse the same fuel. From my experience and what I've heard from others, you can expect to get some crud in the filters for the first few tanks of fuel. I would make sure I have filters for each wing and one final filter before the carbs. Inspect/replace/clean frequently during the early stages of flying. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Thompson" question .should I flush my fuel tanks since the plane has been sitting since last august with little to no fuel in it and if so ,is there a product out that will do the job or should I just run some new avgas through it and not worry. > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:28 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" I think finding an alternate material is much better than relying on coatings and sloshes. However retrofitting a new tank into a completed aircraft is a pretty big job and messy. Another possible option is to use our existing tanks with a rubber (whatever) bladder. One might be able to cut a hole in top of the existing tank (say, 1'X1') to gain access and remove all the existing baffles. Use the same hole to install a bladder. Finish up with a new cover screwed on top to hide the hole. Just a wild thought without much thinking? This might be the best, least expensive, easiest, modification. Are there any bladder companies that can make custom fit products? Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron schick" > There was a fellow in Klammath falls Oregon who made Poly tanks for the > undercambered wings. It was a limited run and may be ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:45 AM PST US From: Jimmie Blackwell Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: kitfox iv owners manual --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jimmie Blackwell Mark Are you looking for the Owner's manual and Pilot Operating Handbook or the Construction manual? I will try to help you out either way. If what you need is the Owner's manual and Pilot operating handbook I can scan and send to you on line if you have high speed internet. If you need the Constuction manual I will need to copy it and send to you via ground transportation. Please let me know and we will get you taken care of one way or the other. Jimmie Mark Thompson wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Thompson" Hi Guys ,I am trying to find a builders/owners manual for my Classic iv,I was hoping that someone might be able to copy their manual for me. I can pay a reasonable fee,I am so close to getting my bird airborne,But I dont have the owners manual to do a final check on my systems,anyways ...Thanks for any help in this matter. Sincerely Mark Thomson.......N61AC Mark Thompson kr2@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:58 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: kitfox iv builders manual --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Mark, Let us know what you need.. Builders manual or POH.. I'm sure we can help. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Thompson Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: kitfox iv builders manual --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Thompson" Hi All,I am in need of a owners/builders manual for my model iv classic and hoping that I might be able to talk someone into making a copy for me from your manual?I will pay any reasonable amount $ Thanks in advance........ Sincerely Mark Thomson....N61AC Mark Thompson kr2@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. -- -- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:07 AM PST US From: Mike Chaney Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney I was wondering why someone hasn't made a tank out of the same material that the red plastic gas cans are made from. I have a number of these plastic cans at home and they seem to last forever. I know there isn't a large market for tanks that fit in a Kitfox but a generic cylinder shaped tank could fit in just about any wing. Mike Chaney -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:49 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" I think finding an alternate material is much better than relying on coatings and sloshes. However retrofitting a new tank into a completed aircraft is a pretty big job and messy. Another possible option is to use our existing tanks with a rubber (whatever) bladder. One might be able to cut a hole in top of the existing tank (say, 1'X1') to gain access and remove all the existing baffles. Use the same hole to install a bladder. Finish up with a new cover screwed on top to hide the hole. Just a wild thought without much thinking? This might be the best, least expensive, easiest, modification. Are there any bladder companies that can make custom fit products? Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron schick" > There was a fellow in Klammath falls Oregon who made Poly tanks for the > undercambered wings. It was a limited run and may be ############################################################################ #### This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at SWOCA. ############################################################################ #### ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:30 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Any CFI with Kitfox in Illinois or Indiana? From: "Anliker, Mark" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Anliker, Mark" I recently completed my Series 5 Kitfox and passed the airworthiness inspection. Now looking to get current (BFR) and a tailwheel endorsement. I have significant experience (about 250 hrs) in tailwheel ultralights (Kolbs), but realize that's not "log-able". Just curious if there are any CFI's with a Kitfox, or access to one, in Illinois or Indiana who are willing/able to give instruction? I'd also consider traveling further if need be. =20 Thanks, =20 Mark Anliker 217-898-4766 =20 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:41 AM PST US From: "Black Cat" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Black Cat" Mike: Smartest thing I've heard all week. Sounds like the 'makings' of a small business... Cheers, Tony. > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney > >I was wondering why someone hasn't made a tank out of the same material >that >the red plastic gas cans are made from. I have a number of these plastic >cans at home and they seem to last forever. > >I know there isn't a large market for tanks that fit in a Kitfox but a >generic cylinder shaped tank could fit in just about any wing. > >Mike Chaney > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe >Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:49 AM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > >I think finding an alternate material is much better than relying on >coatings and sloshes. However retrofitting a new tank into a completed >aircraft is a pretty big job and messy. Another possible option is to use >our existing tanks with a rubber (whatever) bladder. One might be able to >cut a hole in top of the existing tank (say, 1'X1') to gain access and >remove all the existing baffles. Use the same hole to install a bladder. >Finish up with a new cover screwed on top to hide the hole. Just a wild >thought without much thinking? This might be the best, least expensive, >easiest, modification. > Are there any bladder companies that can make custom fit products? > > >Don Smythe >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ron schick" > > > There was a fellow in Klammath falls Oregon who made Poly tanks for the > > undercambered wings. It was a limited run and may be > > >############################################################################ >#### > This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at >SWOCA. >############################################################################ >#### > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:57 AM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Any CFI with Kitfox in Illinois or Indiana? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" Hi Mark........... I think I recall getting a call recording or e-mail from ya. Did I??? My life has been screwed up not good lately with many things hitting me hard but not I'm starting to get things cleared up. I had both my knees replaced at the same time 3.5 months ago and have been healing nicely until I fell hard on them 3 weeks ago. That really set me back but nothing broke loose. Get back to me if there was something that I missed from you. Glad that your "5" is done! I hope to see it this summer. I plan to fly to the SAA fly-in. Talk soon, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anliker, Mark" Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Any CFI with Kitfox in Illinois or Indiana? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Anliker, Mark" > > I recently completed my Series 5 Kitfox and passed the airworthiness > inspection. Now looking to get current (BFR) and a tailwheel > endorsement. I have significant experience (about 250 hrs) in tailwheel > ultralights (Kolbs), but realize that's not "log-able". Just curious if > there are any CFI's with a Kitfox, or access to one, in Illinois or > Indiana who are willing/able to give instruction? I'd also consider > traveling further if need be. > > =20 > > Thanks, > > =20 > > Mark Anliker > > 217-898-4766 > > =20 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:59 AM PST US From: Mike Chaney Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Any CFI with Kitfox in Illinois or Indiana? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney Waynesville airport between Cincinnati and Dayton OH have a few cubs and this is where I recieved my endorsement. It a family run operation on a grass strip. I found them easy to work with. Let me know if you need more info. Mike Chaney -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Anliker, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:08 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Any CFI with Kitfox in Illinois or Indiana? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Anliker, Mark" I recently completed my Series 5 Kitfox and passed the airworthiness inspection. Now looking to get current (BFR) and a tailwheel endorsement. I have significant experience (about 250 hrs) in tailwheel ultralights (Kolbs), but realize that's not "log-able". Just curious if there are any CFI's with a Kitfox, or access to one, in Illinois or Indiana who are willing/able to give instruction? I'd also consider traveling further if need be. =20 Thanks, =20 Mark Anliker 217-898-4766 =20 ############################################################################ #### This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at SWOCA. ############################################################################ #### ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:31 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer From: "darinh" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" Ok guys, I am building my Fox now and have yet to install the tanks. I would like to solve the problem of ethynol and the stock tanks before I build the wing obviously. Short of dropping the $10k or more to fabricate a prototype tank from HDLPE or other compatible material, what is the best alternative? We have not been hit by the ethynol bug yet but I am sure it is coming and would like to be ready when it comes. On the other hand, as one lister wrote...this may be a good opportunity for a small business, especially if one were to work a deal with John McBean and provide OEM tanks for the new Kitfox...sounds interesting. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=37685#37685 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:59 AM PST US From: "Jay Fabian" Subject: Kitfox-List: 2001 Kitfox 4-1200 912ul for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" Hi List, I have my Kitfox 4 - 1200 for sale . 2001 Kitfox 4-1200 , Rotax 912 UL , 135 Hrs TTA+E, Long wings with droop = tips, Bungee gear, Blue and White ,Starburst wings, 3-Blade Warp Drive prop,BRS Parachute, Folding wings, MicroAir Radio, Magellan GPS, King=20 Mode-C Transponder, NAT Intercom, ELT, Whelen Wingtip Strobes, and Nav=20 lights,=20 gallons fuel capacity, LP Bubble doors, Turtledeck, and Windsheild,=20 Tundra tires, Oil Cooler, Matco Brakes, New tailwheel, and Grove=20 aluminum tailspring, Poly fiber, poly tone paint, Speed fairings, 669 LBS Empty weight, cabin heat. Flies great. $32,000. Thats the basics anyways. Let me know if you have more questions. Contact me off list for details, pics. Thanks, I am in Mass. Jay ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:27 AM PST US From: "Michael Meyers" Subject: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for = a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any = experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? Michael Meyers N598BM ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:43 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Alternative material WAS: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On May 31, 2006, at 7:36 PM, Mike Chaney wrote: > I was wondering why someone hasn't made a tank out of the same > material that > the red plastic gas cans are made from. I have a number of these > plastic > cans at home and they seem to last forever. I don't know, Mike, but I think that all the thermoplastics will require a mould that is expensive to produce, and the testing to make it even and at the right thickness. As I wrote before, and only based on my experience with thermoplastic dinghies built here, in Norway, the process is to cast an aluminium mould. Then this is placed in an oven. Preferably by a company that already has ovens about the right size for that kind of object. Then there is a long and extensive period of trial and error, where the "robot" that turns around the mould has to learn how to and how long so that the result is satisfactory and passes QA. At least, that's how it was done in the late 70s. We could ask someone to do that for us but then we have to come with the following: How many tanks do we need? How many different tank types there is for all the Kitfox models? Then we hear what it would cost to make the mould and calculate how much it will cost per tank to pay for it. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:05 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: Kitfox-List: Poly tanks already made --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" There have been poly tanks made for the early Kitfoxes. I sent a picture to Don to post on Sportflight this morning. The last ones were sold to Steve at Airdale by Robert Flint. Robert no longer has the mold, but Kenney Schrader made another mold. Rocky Mountain wings may have a tank that will work as they have the Ridgerunner. There are pics on their website in the wing section. Anyone know if the spar spacing is correct? My virgin tanks will see their first flight on bad gas so I hope there is a solution before they start leaking. My temporary plan is to only use the right tank then switch after it goes. Ron NB Oregon 541KF _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:23 PM PST US From: vft@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: vft@aol.com I highly recommend Clark Lydek at Performance Propellers. He made the prop for N24ZM. Excellent workmanship and service. His ad is usually in the back of Sport Aviation. Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory -----Original Message----- From: Michael Meyers Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:24:45 -0700 Subject: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for = a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any = experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? Michael Meyers N598BM ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:18 PM PST US From: icaza francisco Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon skin thickness --> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco Thanks Tim, Francisco. --- Tim Vader escribi: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tim Vader" > > > Francisco; > > In my unfortunate accident I snapped off the > last few feet of my right > wing. When the wing hit the ground the last three > feet of my right flaperon > also hit the ground and has some crinkled damage to > the skin. The flaperon > spar is undamaged so I will cut and remove the > damaged skin section, replace > the foam ribs on the spar and replace the skin > overlapping and blind > riveting it to the undamaged skin on the inboard > side. That's the plan > anyway, we'll see how it goes. > > Tim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "icaza francisco" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 4:25 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon skin thickness > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > What kind of damage does your flaperon has? How > will > > you repair the skin? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Francisco. > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam gratis! Regstrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.com.mx/ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:21 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Have you thought of using something simple and effective like a Warpdrive? John A. From: "Michael Meyers" Subject: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for = a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any = experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? Michael Meyers N598BM _________________________________________________________________ Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:00 PM PST US From: "Andrew Matthaey" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" IMHO a good wood prop makes the Kitfox! Andrew do not archive >From: "John Anderson" >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice >Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:57:16 +1200 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > > >Have you thought of using something simple and effective like a Warpdrive? >John A. > > >From: "Michael Meyers" >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice >Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:24:45 -0700 >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" > > >Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for = >a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = >Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = >month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = >similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any = >experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? > >Michael Meyers >N598BM > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming > > _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:36 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Amen. Except don't limit us to the wings. I've considered a single fuselage tank for a while now. Plenty of room behind the seat, and in the "baggage" area. The feed problems of the wing tanks would disappear. The only bad side is that I'm fundamentally opposed to fuel in the cabin. I discounted the Mustang II long ago for this reason. But since in the Kitfox you hit things at 30, as opposed to 70mph, it may be mitigated. Wing folding and transportation becomes a non-issue, as well. Put me in for one M2 fuselage tank, 15-20 gallon, please. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Chaney Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney I was wondering why someone hasn't made a tank out of the same material that the red plastic gas cans are made from. I have a number of these plastic cans at home and they seem to last forever. I know there isn't a large market for tanks that fit in a Kitfox but a generic cylinder shaped tank could fit in just about any wing. Mike Chaney -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:49 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" I think finding an alternate material is much better than relying on coatings and sloshes. However retrofitting a new tank into a completed aircraft is a pretty big job and messy. Another possible option is to use our existing tanks with a rubber (whatever) bladder. One might be able to cut a hole in top of the existing tank (say, 1'X1') to gain access and remove all the existing baffles. Use the same hole to install a bladder. Finish up with a new cover screwed on top to hide the hole. Just a wild thought without much thinking? This might be the best, least expensive, easiest, modification. Are there any bladder companies that can make custom fit products? Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron schick" > There was a fellow in Klammath falls Oregon who made Poly tanks for the > undercambered wings. It was a limited run and may be ############################################################################ #### This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at SWOCA. ############################################################################ #### ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:05 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice From: "Rueb, Duane" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane" I second the motion on the Clark Lydek propeller, as the current owner of N24ZM I attest to the high quality of this "quasi constant speed" propeller. It is made of 52 laminations of the finest northern (slow growing) maple, is shaped to treat air very effectively, and is also a beautiful thing to see. Duane Rueb -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vft@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 1:45 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: vft@aol.com I highly recommend Clark Lydek at Performance Propellers. He made the prop for N24ZM. Excellent workmanship and service. His ad is usually in the back of Sport Aviation. Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory -----Original Message----- From: Michael Meyers Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:24:45 -0700 Subject: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for = a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any = experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? Michael Meyers N598BM ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:50 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" Bradley Walmart has some nice boat tanks for that. Ron NB Ore >From: "Bradley M Webb" >To: >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer >Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 17:39:01 -0400 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" > >Amen. Except don't limit us to the wings. I've considered a single fuselage >tank for a while now. Plenty of room behind the seat, and in the "baggage" >area. The feed problems of the wing tanks would disappear. > >The only bad side is that I'm fundamentally opposed to fuel in the cabin. I >discounted the Mustang II long ago for this reason. But since in the Kitfox >you hit things at 30, as opposed to 70mph, it may be mitigated. > >Wing folding and transportation becomes a non-issue, as well. > >Put me in for one M2 fuselage tank, 15-20 gallon, please. > >Bradley > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Chaney >Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 1:37 PM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney > >I was wondering why someone hasn't made a tank out of the same material >that >the red plastic gas cans are made from. I have a number of these plastic >cans at home and they seem to last forever. > >I know there isn't a large market for tanks that fit in a Kitfox but a >generic cylinder shaped tank could fit in just about any wing. > >Mike Chaney > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe >Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:49 AM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > >I think finding an alternate material is much better than relying on >coatings and sloshes. However retrofitting a new tank into a completed >aircraft is a pretty big job and messy. Another possible option is to use >our existing tanks with a rubber (whatever) bladder. One might be able to >cut a hole in top of the existing tank (say, 1'X1') to gain access and >remove all the existing baffles. Use the same hole to install a bladder. >Finish up with a new cover screwed on top to hide the hole. Just a wild >thought without much thinking? This might be the best, least expensive, >easiest, modification. > Are there any bladder companies that can make custom fit products? > > >Don Smythe >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ron schick" > > > There was a fellow in Klammath falls Oregon who made Poly tanks for the > > undercambered wings. It was a limited run and may be > > >############################################################################ >#### > This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at >SWOCA. >############################################################################ >#### > > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:33 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Oh No! I won't have anything so...so...GOUCH in my airplane! -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron schick Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 5:57 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" Bradley Walmart has some nice boat tanks for that. Ron NB Ore >From: "Bradley M Webb" >To: >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer >Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 17:39:01 -0400 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" > >Amen. Except don't limit us to the wings. I've considered a single fuselage >tank for a while now. Plenty of room behind the seat, and in the "baggage" >area. The feed problems of the wing tanks would disappear. > >The only bad side is that I'm fundamentally opposed to fuel in the cabin. I >discounted the Mustang II long ago for this reason. But since in the Kitfox >you hit things at 30, as opposed to 70mph, it may be mitigated. > >Wing folding and transportation becomes a non-issue, as well. > >Put me in for one M2 fuselage tank, 15-20 gallon, please. > >Bradley > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Chaney >Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 1:37 PM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney > >I was wondering why someone hasn't made a tank out of the same material >that >the red plastic gas cans are made from. I have a number of these plastic >cans at home and they seem to last forever. > >I know there isn't a large market for tanks that fit in a Kitfox but a >generic cylinder shaped tank could fit in just about any wing. > >Mike Chaney > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe >Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:49 AM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > >I think finding an alternate material is much better than relying on >coatings and sloshes. However retrofitting a new tank into a completed >aircraft is a pretty big job and messy. Another possible option is to use >our existing tanks with a rubber (whatever) bladder. One might be able to >cut a hole in top of the existing tank (say, 1'X1') to gain access and >remove all the existing baffles. Use the same hole to install a bladder. >Finish up with a new cover screwed on top to hide the hole. Just a wild >thought without much thinking? This might be the best, least expensive, >easiest, modification. > Are there any bladder companies that can make custom fit products? > > >Don Smythe >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ron schick" > > > There was a fellow in Klammath falls Oregon who made Poly tanks for the > > undercambered wings. It was a limited run and may be > > >########################################################################### # >#### > This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at >SWOCA. >########################################################################### # >#### > > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:18 PM PST US From: AMuller589@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com Also Remember fuel in the cabin increases the wing loads more than fuel in the wings. The design gross weight moments were derived based on wing tanks to reduce the wing bending loads. Not terribly significant unless you are flying at high gross weights in air gusts greater than CAA (way back when).standards. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:18 PM PST US From: "Bill Flick" Subject: Kitfox-List: oil pressure --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Flick" i have a recently overhauled ea-81 sub and am haveing trouble getting = enough oil press after warm up. starts off around 60 lbs and then = shortly drops off to 20 and a little less after hot. i have a new = pump-new gauage and sender and have checked everything i can think of = but no luck yet. i am useing 20-50 castrol. any ideas would be greatly = appreciated. i do not have an oil cooler but am putting one on. = question? do i put the cooler in the return line to my sump or in the = inlet line to the pump? thanks ralph ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:19 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" Ya also weights and balance would be a pain to behind the seat. >From: "Bradley M Webb" >To: >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer >Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 18:28:08 -0400 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" > >Oh No! I won't have anything so...so...GOUCH in my airplane! > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron schick >Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 5:57 PM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" > >Bradley Walmart has some nice boat tanks for that. Ron NB Ore > > > >From: "Bradley M Webb" > >To: > >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer > >Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 17:39:01 -0400 > > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" > > > >Amen. Except don't limit us to the wings. I've considered a single >fuselage > >tank for a while now. Plenty of room behind the seat, and in the >"baggage" > >area. The feed problems of the wing tanks would disappear. > > > >The only bad side is that I'm fundamentally opposed to fuel in the cabin. >I > >discounted the Mustang II long ago for this reason. But since in the >Kitfox > >you hit things at 30, as opposed to 70mph, it may be mitigated. > > > >Wing folding and transportation becomes a non-issue, as well. > > > >Put me in for one M2 fuselage tank, 15-20 gallon, please. > > > >Bradley > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Chaney > >Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 1:37 PM > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer > > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney > > > >I was wondering why someone hasn't made a tank out of the same material > >that > >the red plastic gas cans are made from. I have a number of these plastic > >cans at home and they seem to last forever. > > > >I know there isn't a large market for tanks that fit in a Kitfox but a > >generic cylinder shaped tank could fit in just about any wing. > > > >Mike Chaney > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe > >Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:49 AM > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer > > > > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > > > >I think finding an alternate material is much better than relying on > >coatings and sloshes. However retrofitting a new tank into a completed > >aircraft is a pretty big job and messy. Another possible option is to >use > >our existing tanks with a rubber (whatever) bladder. One might be able >to > >cut a hole in top of the existing tank (say, 1'X1') to gain access and > >remove all the existing baffles. Use the same hole to install a bladder. > >Finish up with a new cover screwed on top to hide the hole. Just a wild > >thought without much thinking? This might be the best, least expensive, > >easiest, modification. > > Are there any bladder companies that can make custom fit products? > > > > > >Don Smythe > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "ron schick" > > > > > There was a fellow in Klammath falls Oregon who made Poly tanks for >the > > > undercambered wings. It was a limited run and may be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >########################################################################### ># > >#### > > This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at > >SWOCA. > >########################################################################### ># > >#### > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! >http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:36 PM PST US From: "Roger McConnell" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" John and others Thanks for the advice; I do recall something in the build manual about using a fish scale. I'm not a fisherman so guess I'll borrow or go buy one. Now let's see if its 12-14 lbs at the rear of the tire what do you figure it to be at the rear of the faring? Think I'll try 6-8 lbs. Roger Mac DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:20 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Roger, The most common issue with the nose wheel shimmy is the strut axle nut.. it needs to be tight enough that it requires about 12-14 lbs of break away pressure if one was to grab the rear of the tire... You can adjust it by using a fish scale and hook it to the aft of the tire. It does not need to maintain that pressure but it should be close to that to get the tire to start turning... Hope that helps... Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger McConnell Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" I got a question for you guy or gals that fly unconventional gear Kitfoxs. Every sense installing the faring on the nose wheel, I have had a reoccurring shimmy. I have tightened the pivot nut on the strut and have also added some pressure to the tire. I thought I had it fixed but after going out and flying this morning, before the wind got up, it did it again when I landed. Is there something I haven't tried or I'm doing wrong. Roger Mac S7/912s -- -- ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:33 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: West System Epoxy answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Fues tank Well, if you are going to do that, take a look at the tanks in JEGS or other racing catalogs. They are foam filled for crash protection and come in various sizes to fit your needs. Dealing with how to hook up the filler might slow you down a bit, but otherwise a safer tank than any we have now. Kurt S. S-5 --- Bradley M Webb wrote: > Amen. Except don't limit us to the wings. I've > considered a single fuselage tank for a while now. __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:50 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fuel tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Mark, I used the same 5 gal of fuel and washed it thru the entire system several times and then checked the filter. Rewashed it until the filter was clean. Each time I used a filter funnel to collect the fuel in the 5 gal tank, and then refiltered it again as I poured it into the plane so it was always clean. Kurt S. S-5 --- Mark Thompson wrote: > Hi all, I have a kitfox iv and am ready for my first > flight in about a week or two,after many days of > upgrades and changes that I made I am left with a > simple question .should I flush my fuel tanks since > the plane has been sitting since last august with > little to no fuel in it and if so ,is there a > product out that will do the job or should I just > run some new avgas through it and not worry. > > Thanks for any advice __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:04 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: tanks and alcohol fuels --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" This is an interesting discussion and without a doubt something will come of it I am sure. With the experience I have had personally and vicariously throught the members of the list, it seems there are trade offs with any tank. Aluminum will work under the movement of the wings and seams tend to open up. The fiberglass tanks have the mentioned weaknesses and there have been long discussions in the past on how to make the poly header tanks stop weeping at the boss AN fitting. Having had seeping tanks and resloshing after 500 hours of flight, I personally will just go with the flow and if need be, reslosh the tanks again. It is not fun, but certainly doable without damage to fabric or glass and I did it solo. My guess is that people with brains and bucks are looking at the potential market for alcohol resistant everything and the solution will be forthcoming as we need it. Thanks to Tim Vader for the tip on the alcohol resistant epoxy slosh. I 'm sure with most of the kitfox fleet out there flying, replacing the tanks is not a ready and attractive option. I just can't imagine having my airplane out of service for the time it would take to replace the tanks - new tanks, fabric and paint - not an option unless it becomes the only opttion. For what it's worth, I have been working on a simple effective low fuel indicator for the header tank that uses a magnetic float that trips a dry reed switch. I get to see the float from time to time and can readily evaluate the effectiveness of resins, coatings etc. And if you think about it, the float is in a much harsher invironment than the tank, because when the float is at altitude if there is any breach in the coating, it will de-gas and then once back down it will suck gas into the vacuum created - wet floats don't float very well. In the early stages I would soak the float several weeks in gas and then take it up to 15,000 ft in a bell jar and look for bubbles. I threw out lots of floats. I've had one of the units on my airplane now for about three or four years and I think the last floats are pretty close to what I want. I definitely intend to try Tim's recommended resin though. Lowell ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:04 PM PST US From: Jim Gilliatt Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Gilliatt Michael Meyers wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" > >Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for = >a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = >Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = >month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = >similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any = >experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? > >Michael Meyers >N598BM > > > > > > > > > Talk to this guy. He is advertised in Sport Aviation and makes props for half of what Sensenich costs. <>Ed Sterba 513 68th Street Holmes Beach, FL 34217 941-778-3103 ed_sterba@excite.com Jim Gilliatt S7 IO240 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:45 PM PST US From: "wingsdown" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" Tightness is important. I would also make sure you are not touching down a bit sideways. This can cause the wheel to cock in one direction or the other. Intense wheel shimmy can bend or even break your nose gear, really. Might I suggest rear wheel on deck first and keep the nose wheel off as long as possible. Looks cool to. Also if she does start to shake get the nose up and do light touches till thing calm down. Gee wonder how I know this. Must have read it somewhere. :) Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger McConnell Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 3:16 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" John and others Thanks for the advice; I do recall something in the build manual about using a fish scale. I'm not a fisherman so guess I'll borrow or go buy one. Now let's see if its 12-14 lbs at the rear of the tire what do you figure it to be at the rear of the faring? Think I'll try 6-8 lbs. Roger Mac DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:20 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Roger, The most common issue with the nose wheel shimmy is the strut axle nut.. it needs to be tight enough that it requires about 12-14 lbs of break away pressure if one was to grab the rear of the tire... You can adjust it by using a fish scale and hook it to the aft of the tire. It does not need to maintain that pressure but it should be close to that to get the tire to start turning... Hope that helps... Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger McConnell Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" I got a question for you guy or gals that fly unconventional gear Kitfoxs. Every sense installing the faring on the nose wheel, I have had a reoccurring shimmy. I have tightened the pivot nut on the strut and have also added some pressure to the tire. I thought I had it fixed but after going out and flying this morning, before the wind got up, it did it again when I landed. Is there something I haven't tried or I'm doing wrong. Roger Mac S7/912s -- -- ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:33 PM PST US From: "wingsdown" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oil pressure --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" What are the oil temps? If they are normal I would hook up a mechanical pressure gage you can look at after a short flight. My engine did not use a sump but the general flow is, engine out----oil filter----oil cooler----engine in. You can just crank the engine a few turns to determine which is which with oil in the system. Make sure you plumb the filter correct in/out, least you burst the filter or worse starve the engine. If you have been running much at 20 PSI chances are damage my be done and at least a teardown inspection needed. Since I did not have a sump maybe someone else knows the routing for it. If you install a thermostat such as the MOCAL it basically goes before the cooler to bypass oil or flow when needed. Hope this helps. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Flick Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 3:33 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: oil pressure --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Flick" i have a recently overhauled ea-81 sub and am haveing trouble getting = enough oil press after warm up. starts off around 60 lbs and then = shortly drops off to 20 and a little less after hot. i have a new = pump-new gauage and sender and have checked everything i can think of = but no luck yet. i am useing 20-50 castrol. any ideas would be greatly = appreciated. i do not have an oil cooler but am putting one on. = question? do i put the cooler in the return line to my sump or in the = inlet line to the pump? thanks ralph ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:13 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Well I can't say and I have to respect your opinion. I've only flown one Fox (mine) and behind a 3 blade 72" ground adjustable Warpdrive and one up and 1/2 fuel, 1500' per min at 55kts 80% power and 97kts cruise at 75% (after tweeking the pitch to suit) is pretty good to me. John A. From: "Andrew Matthaey" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" IMHO a good wood prop makes the Kitfox! Andrew do not archive >From: "John Anderson" >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice >Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:57:16 +1200 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > > >Have you thought of using something simple and effective like a Warpdrive? >John A. > > > > > >From: "Michael Meyers" >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice >Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:24:45 -0700 >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" > > >Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for = >a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = >Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = >month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = >similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any = >experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? > >Michael Meyers >N598BM > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ _________________________________________________________________ Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:37 PM PST US From: "Andrew Matthaey" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" I know there are better performing composite props out there, but strictly aesthetically-speaking, nothing beats a three-blade wood prop on a Kitfox. Period ;-) Personally, I'm not looking to gain a couple knots or 100ft in the climb-out and give up my GSC! But to each his own... Andrew do not archive >From: "John Anderson" >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice >Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:29:30 +1200 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > > >Well I can't say and I have to respect your opinion. I've only flown one >Fox (mine) and behind a 3 blade 72" ground adjustable Warpdrive and one up >and 1/2 fuel, 1500' per min at 55kts 80% power and 97kts cruise at 75% >(after tweeking the pitch to suit) is pretty good to me. John A. > > >From: "Andrew Matthaey" >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice >Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 17:14:52 -0400 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" > > >IMHO a good wood prop makes the Kitfox! > >Andrew > > >do not archive > > >From: "John Anderson" > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice > >Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:57:16 +1200 > > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > > > > > >Have you thought of using something simple and effective like a >Warpdrive? > >John A. > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Michael Meyers" > >To: > >Subject: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice > >Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:24:45 -0700 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" > > > > > >Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for >= > >a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = > >Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = > >month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = > >similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any >= > >experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? > > > >Michael Meyers > >N598BM > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming > > _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:46 PM PST US From: "Steve Wilson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Wilson" Can someone please explain the difference between a wood prop and warp drive? Thanks. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Anderson" Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:57 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > > > Have you thought of using something simple and effective like a Warpdrive? > John A. > > > From: "Michael Meyers" > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice > Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:24:45 -0700 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" > > > Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for = > a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = > Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = > month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = > similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any = > experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? > > Michael Meyers > N598BM > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:26 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Steve, Warpdrive comes in 2 or more removeable composite blades, a selection of lengths and the pitch is ground ajustable. John A. From: "Steve Wilson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Wilson" Can someone please explain the difference between a wood prop and warp drive? Thanks. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Anderson" Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:57 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > > >Have you thought of using something simple and effective like a Warpdrive? >John A. > > >From: "Michael Meyers" >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice >Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:24:45 -0700 >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" > > >Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for = >a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = >Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = >month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = >similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any = >experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? > >Michael Meyers >N598BM > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming > > _________________________________________________________________ Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:06 PM PST US From: vft@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: vft@aol.com Warp drives are much, much faster than any wood prop. I would defenently double up on the rib stiching before fitting one of those on a Kitfox. Haven't you ever watched Star Trek:) Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory -----Original Message----- From: Steve Wilson Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 21:31:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Wilson" Can someone please explain the difference between a wood prop and warp drive? Thanks. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Anderson" Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:57 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" > > > Have you thought of using something simple and effective like a Warpdrive? > John A. > > > From: "Michael Meyers" > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Wood Prop Advice > Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:24:45 -0700 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Meyers" > > > Thanks to input I received from this list I have narrowed my search for = > a wood prop for my KF (Cont. 0-200 engine) to two manufactures. = > Sensenich makes a suitable model for $1085, unfortunately they have 3 = > month production backlog. Props Inc. of Newport, Oregon offers a = > similar model for $995 with a one month turn around. Has anyone had any = > experience or recommendations regarding Props Inc.? > > Michael Meyers > N598BM > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:00 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" I would not pull on the fairing that far aft.... Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger McConnell Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" John and others Thanks for the advice; I do recall something in the build manual about using a fish scale. I'm not a fisherman so guess I'll borrow or go buy one. Now let's see if its 12-14 lbs at the rear of the tire what do you figure it to be at the rear of the faring? Think I'll try 6-8 lbs. Roger Mac DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:20 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Roger, The most common issue with the nose wheel shimmy is the strut axle nut.. it needs to be tight enough that it requires about 12-14 lbs of break away pressure if one was to grab the rear of the tire... You can adjust it by using a fish scale and hook it to the aft of the tire. It does not need to maintain that pressure but it should be close to that to get the tire to start turning... Hope that helps... Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger McConnell Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Nose Wheel Shimmy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" I got a question for you guy or gals that fly unconventional gear Kitfoxs. Every sense installing the faring on the nose wheel, I have had a reoccurring shimmy. I have tightened the pivot nut on the strut and have also added some pressure to the tire. I thought I had it fixed but after going out and flying this morning, before the wind got up, it did it again when I landed. Is there something I haven't tried or I'm doing wrong. Roger Mac S7/912s -- -- -- -- ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:03 PM PST US From: James Shumaker Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker The rumor about aluminum fuel tanks to being perfect is quite true. I re-sloshed one of my tanks about 2 months ago. It was better for about a week. Now it is dripping. Probably a seam opening up. As someone mentioned, the race car set make all sorts of tanks with bladders and foam fillers as a matter of course and think of the fuel tank as a minor problem rather than a major problem. But then they don't have them inside the wing and covered with fabric and paint. Jim Shumaker