Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - Re: Tank sealer/Ethanol fuel (John Anderson)
2. 12:40 AM - Re: Specs (John Anderson)
3. 01:26 AM - Re: List Enclosure SupportList Enclosure Support (Michael Gibbs)
4. 03:57 AM - towing kitfox (Dave G.)
5. 04:35 AM - Re: towing kitfox (RAY Gignac)
6. 05:24 AM - Re: towing kitfox (Dave)
7. 05:36 AM - Re: towing kitfox (Rex)
8. 06:06 AM - Re: towing kitfox (Ron Liebmann)
9. 06:51 AM - Re: towing kitfox (Marco Menezes)
10. 09:01 AM - Re: towing kitfox (Dave G.)
11. 09:05 AM - Re: Tank sealer/Ethanol fuel (kurt schrader)
12. 09:37 AM - Re: towing kitfox (Guy Buchanan)
13. 09:43 AM - New member looking for help...... (Chuck Boro)
14. 10:43 AM - Re: Fuel Tanks (PWilson)
15. 11:48 AM - Ethanol Question (Don Smythe)
16. 01:07 PM - Re: Ethanol Question (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
17. 01:19 PM - Re: Ethanol Question (Randy Daughenbaugh)
18. 01:54 PM - polytank pics (ron schick)
19. 02:16 PM - Re: towing kitfox (Dave G.)
20. 03:54 PM - Re: polytank pics (Rex)
21. 04:10 PM - Re: Cracked Eng Mount (PWilson)
22. 05:06 PM - Re: Ethanol Question (Don Smythe)
23. 05:06 PM - Re: polytank pics (ron schick)
24. 05:06 PM - Re: Specs (wingsdown)
25. 05:12 PM - Running on one wing tank? (Paul Seehafer)
26. 06:48 PM - Re: Running on one wing tank? (Rexster)
27. 10:08 PM - Re: Running on one wing tank? (kurt schrader)
28. 10:08 PM - Re: Specs (kurt schrader)
29. 10:35 PM - Re: Specs (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tank sealer/Ethanol fuel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
You have a way of puttting a delightful slant on things seeming negitive
Kurt....love it..John
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tank sealer/Ethanol fuel
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I paid $2.71 a gallon today for 87 Octane. High test
for the plane is a bit more. Don't know the 100LL
right now.
Some locals claim that they will be out of flying at
$5.00 per gallon - their breaking point?
My understanding, though I haven't confirmed it, is
that the Wright Bros paid about $2.50/gal back then.
Gas and things that ran on it were a lot more rare in
'03. But then 12 HP didn't burn as much either,
especially when a cross country was 600+ feet.
kurt S.
do not archive
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Gee you lucky US folk must have cheap mogas....NZ
> 100LL is cheaper than
> mogas but still expensive..$NZ1.60 per litre..John
> A.
__________________________________________________
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Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Rick, both shots came out extra good. The system drops the blow by
oil into the container and the filter is to ensure clean air return? As Kurt
explained, you would drain the container every so often? Your turbo set up
looks almost identical to mine, I see the cable that was fr the manual
w/gate, yes?I went through that too but reverted to std system. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
Take a look at the ones I ended up making. I got tired of messes and not
having the crud/sludge acid water purged from my crankcase while allow
clean cool air in. OK here goes first attachment.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Now you mention breathers Kurt, my left hand one pumps out a bit of oil,
what type do you have? My breather pipes elivate up and then drop
through
the lower cowl via short stand pipe outlets. No seperators. John
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Great John,
Keep us impressed!
I know what you mean about priorities too. It was a
while before I noticed my gearbox temps were high and
I did something about it, because I too was working on
more pressing matters in early testing. Cooling
always seems an issue early on as well. In my case,
fixing a badly functioning breather came first.
If you plan to go up into the rare air like Rick, you
will need even more pitch to not overspeed or under
power your plane. Once again, mission dictates. With
all your power, you can achieve many objectives with
power to spare, as you already seem to be doing.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks so very much for your assistance on this
> Kurt. Yes, thinking about
> what you say I do need more pitch and going on the
> result from the change I
> made it confirms this. I been a bit focussed on
> getting cooling, belt
> tracking etc sorted but now that those things seem
> pretty well sorted it's
> time for some science. As you say, this is
> fun...I'll post my results. John
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<< PARTINGOUTKITFOX2005-048.jpg >>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: List Enclosure SupportList Enclosure Support |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Matt sez:
>I'm looking at a method that will strip the enclosures from the
>email and insert a URL link into the email distribution instead that
>will point to the Matronics webserver similar to the way the BBS
>works now.
Now that's an awesome solution! I can't wait :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 4
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I want to get my new-to-me aircraft home over the next day or so before
it starts raining for the weekend again.
I have no trailer or tow-bar. I may be able to rent something suitable.
I'm just curious. How well do Kitfox tow on their gear? I'll likely end
up building a trailer eventually but the immediate project is to get it
home.
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot@msn.com>
A very short distance is ok on the kitfox gear, however, if you can rent a
trailer towing it would be the best way. Make sure you secure the wings at
the attachment point at the tail end! you should have braces designed to do
this when the wings are folded. Also make sure your fuel tanks are not full
of fuel in the folded position.
Ray
>From: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: towing kitfox
>Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 07:53:57 -0300
>
>I want to get my new-to-me aircraft home over the next day or so before it
>starts raining for the weekend again.
>
>I have no trailer or tow-bar. I may be able to rent something suitable. I'm
>just curious. How well do Kitfox tow on their gear? I'll likely end up
>building a trailer eventually but the immediate project is to get it home.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: towing kitfox |
Dave,
I would only trailer it .
You can get a flat bed trailer and load it on. Make sure you use some
wing braces from Strut attach to front spar tube or your epoxy joints on
first rib at rear could fail.
Also you can use a enclosed trailer 22 to 24 feet long. One wing will
have to come off I think but it should fit between wheels on Floor.
Your Kitfox with Wings folded is just under 8 feet wide.
How far do you have to go ?
Also a 4 place skidoo trailer flatbed might be suitable as well.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:53 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: towing kitfox
I want to get my new-to-me aircraft home over the next day or so
before it starts raining for the weekend again.
I have no trailer or tow-bar. I may be able to rent something
suitable. I'm just curious. How well do Kitfox tow on their gear? I'll
likely end up building a trailer eventually but the immediate project is
to get it home.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: towing kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
And use the wing root braces or go very slow!
Rex
Florida/Colorado
RAY Gignac wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot@msn.com>
>
> A very short distance is ok on the kitfox gear, however, if you can
> rent a trailer towing it would be the best way. Make sure you secure
> the wings at the attachment point at the tail end! you should have
> braces designed to do this when the wings are folded. Also make sure
> your fuel tanks are not full of fuel in the folded position.
>
> Ray
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: towing kitfox |
When I first made my Model 2, I towed it many times back and forth to my
local airport using the factory towbar. I towed it at up to 50mph for
about one mile and then at 35mph for about 4 miles. The tires and
bearings never heated up. It tracked very well and I would readily do it
again if necessary.
Ron N55KF
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: towing kitfox
Dave,
I would only trailer it .
You can get a flat bed trailer and load it on. Make sure you use some
wing braces from Strut attach to front spar tube or your epoxy joints on
first rib at rear could fail.
Also you can use a enclosed trailer 22 to 24 feet long. One wing will
have to come off I think but it should fit between wheels on Floor.
Your Kitfox with Wings folded is just under 8 feet wide.
How far do you have to go ?
Also a 4 place skidoo trailer flatbed might be suitable as well.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:53 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: towing kitfox
I want to get my new-to-me aircraft home over the next day or so
before it starts raining for the weekend again.
I have no trailer or tow-bar. I may be able to rent something
suitable. I'm just curious. How well do Kitfox tow on their gear? I'll
likely end up building a trailer eventually but the immediate project is
to get it home.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: towing kitfox |
Hi Dave.
If you have to haul it more than just a few miles, I'd strongly recommend renting
an enclosed trailer or truck. There's alot of junk out there on the highways
that will get tossed up by your tires and those of passing cars. Rag 'n tube
construction is fragile on the ground and you'll be patching enough holes as
it is from stuff thrown up by your prop on take-offs and landings.
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Feel free to call! Free PC-to-PC calls. Low rates on PC-to-Phone. Get Yahoo! Messenger
with Voice
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: towing kitfox |
I have to go about 60 miles. The wings have no covering in their current
state, and will come home separately. Looks like I'm renting an enclosed
truck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: towing kitfox
Dave,
I would only trailer it .
You can get a flat bed trailer and load it on. Make sure you use some
wing braces from Strut attach to front spar tube or your epoxy joints on
first rib at rear could fail.
Also you can use a enclosed trailer 22 to 24 feet long. One wing will
have to come off I think but it should fit between wheels on Floor.
Your Kitfox with Wings folded is just under 8 feet wide.
How far do you have to go ?
Also a 4 place skidoo trailer flatbed might be suitable as well.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:53 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: towing kitfox
I want to get my new-to-me aircraft home over the next day or so
before it starts raining for the weekend again.
I have no trailer or tow-bar. I may be able to rent something
suitable. I'm just curious. How well do Kitfox tow on their gear? I'll
likely end up building a trailer eventually but the immediate project is
to get it home.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Tank sealer/Ethanol fuel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks John,
20 years in the Marine Corps? 16 years at UPS? I had
lots of negatives in my life and learned to deal with
them. I learned to be responsible. Take control.
Look for the bright side to it all. Ha ha. Sure!
Then I look at my taxes...... Gas is cheap in
comparison and the biggest profit on it still goes to
the government.
Even though I drive 200 miles one way to work, the
cost of gas is a relatively small negative for me. I
take control of it by driving a 2000 Olds van that
gets 30+ mpg. Then I go to work one day and stay for
2 weeks. Drive back. Cost $20/ week to drive to/from
work.
It is my play time that cost! :-)
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You have a way of putting a delightful slant on
> things seeming negitive Kurt....love it..John
__________________________________________________
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: towing kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 03:53 AM 6/6/2006, you wrote:
>I want to get my new-to-me aircraft home over the next day or so before it
>starts raining for the weekend again.
Where are you? There may be someone nearby who has what you need.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | New member looking for help...... |
Hi all,
I'm anticipating purchasing a Kitfox here pretty soon and hope I can
find some help and/or advice here.
I'm currently looking at two different Kitfoxes that are for sale, and
looking for someone that just might be in the neighborhood of Needles,
CA. and/or Huntington, IN that might be able to look one over for me. I
am within driving distance of Needles but unfamiliar with the Kitfox. I
have been a Grumman driver for the past 6 years.
Any help greatly appreciated. If you need more info from me don't
hesitate to ask.
Chuck
Arizona City, AZ
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
But the Al tanks in a KF wont work due to wing flex and subsequent
cracking of the Al. Very few of the Al tank models still have the Al tanks.
The race car tanks are periodically have the foam and liner replaced.
Not a good plan for a KF. Besides most of the racers use leaded fuel
and in any case no alcohol or other aeromatics are used. Thus it
would be a big experiment to use the same product they use. The spam
cans with bladders all use AV gas which does not contain alcohol.
The Skystar plan to develop a poly tank replacement was the best way
to go - oh well.
Regards, Paul
===================
At 11:34 PM 5/31/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>
>The rumor about aluminum fuel tanks to being perfect is quite
>true. I re-sloshed one of my tanks about 2 months ago. It was
>better for about a week. Now it is dripping. Probably a seam opening up.
>
> As someone mentioned, the race car set make all sorts of tanks
> with bladders and foam fillers as a matter of course and think of
> the fuel tank as a minor problem rather than a major problem. But
> then they don't have them inside the wing and covered with fabric and paint.
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Ethanol Question |
All,
I've been reading about this Ethanol gasoline and the fact that it
will "Phase Separate" if too much water is present in the fuel. Someone
mentioned this the other day and I had no idea what he was talking
about. One article on the Rotax 582 said that if phase separation
occurs then you have a good amount of combined water/ethanol laying
somewhere in your system which won't burn. Also, once phase separation
occurs you will loose about 3 points on the octane rating. So, 93
octane would be about 90 octane.
This is really reaching out there but, what if a person built
himself a rig where he could pour in say 5 gallons of gasoline w/ 10%
ethanol and "ADD" 1 gallon of water. Stir slowly and allow to sit for a
period of time. Design the rig so that the bottom portion would be
small like a funnel and have a valve located above the accumulated
water/ethanol line. Once the phase separation occurs and all settles,
shut the valve and drain off the water/ethanol. You end up with pure
gasoline minus 3 octane.
What do some of you Chemical Engineers think? I'm willing to test
anything.
Don Smythe
Too much time on my hands.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol Question |
interesting concept, Don
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
All,
I've been reading about this Ethanol gasoline and the fact that it will "Phase
Separate" if too much water is present in the fuel. Someone mentioned this
the other day and I had no idea what he was talking about. One article on
the Rotax 582 said that if phase separation occurs then you have a good amount
of combined water/ethanol laying somewhere in your system which won't burn.
Also, once phase separation occurs you will loose about 3 points on the octane
rating. So, 93 octane would be about 90 octane.
This is really reaching out there but, what if a person built himself a rig
where he could pour in say 5 gallons of gasoline w/ 10% ethanol and "ADD" 1 gallon
of water. Stir slowly and allow to sit for a period of time. Design the
rig so that the bottom portion would be small like a funnel and have a valve
located above the accumulated water/ethanol line. Once the phase separation
occurs and all settles, shut the valve and drain off the water/ethanol. You end
up with pure gasoline minus 3 octane.
What do some of you Chemical Engineers think? I'm willing to test anything.
Don Smythe
Too much time on my hands.
<html><body>
<DIV>interesting concept, Don</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Don Smythe"
<dosmythe@cox.net> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>All, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I've been reading about this
Ethanol gasoline and the fact that it will "Phase Separate" if too much
water is present in the fuel. Someone mentioned this the other day and
I had no idea what he was talking about. One article on the Rotax 582
said that if phase separation occurs then you have a good amount of combined
water/ethanol laying somewhere in your system which won't burn. Also,
once phase separation occurs you will loose about 3 points on the octane rating.
So, 93 octane would be about 90 octane.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> This is really reaching out there
but, what if a person built himself a rig where he could pour in say 5 gallons
of gasoline w/ 10% ethanol and "ADD" 1 gallon of water. Stir slowly
and allow to sit for a period of time. Design the rig so that the bottom
portion would be small like a funnel and have a valve located above the accumulated
water/ethanol line. Once the phase separation occurs and all settles,
shut the valve and drain off the water/ethanol. You end up with pure
gasoline minus 3 octane.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> What do some of you Chemical Engineers
think? I'm willing to test anything.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don Smythe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Too much time on my hands.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Ethanol Question |
Don,
The basics of what you suggest will work. BUT,,,,
You are at risk of making a mistake and loading your tank with a little
water if you don't get a good clean phase separation. Also, as it
cools(cold weather flying), more aqueous layer will separate out. - stuff
that was in the gasoline layer at room temperature. Even with the phase
separation, there is some ethanol and water in the gasoline layer and some
gasoline in the aqueous layer.
Also, the addition of oil may cause some more water/ethanol layer to
separate out. (If you are feeding a 2-stroke.)
And the last thing that comes to mind immediately is that the difference of
3 octane points may not be precise. In other words sometimes more than 3
points loss, sometimes less.
And then you will have some gasoline contaminated vodka to dispose of.
Don't drink it!
But it is a great idea. Just not one that I would fly behind.
Randy
.
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:44 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol Question
All,
I've been reading about this Ethanol gasoline and the fact that it will
"Phase Separate" if too much water is present in the fuel. Someone
mentioned this the other day and I had no idea what he was talking about.
One article on the Rotax 582 said that if phase separation occurs then you
have a good amount of combined water/ethanol laying somewhere in your
system which won't burn. Also, once phase separation occurs you will loose
about 3 points on the octane rating. So, 93 octane would be about 90
octane.
This is really reaching out there but, what if a person built himself a
rig where he could pour in say 5 gallons of gasoline w/ 10% ethanol and
"ADD" 1 gallon of water. Stir slowly and allow to sit for a period of time.
Design the rig so that the bottom portion would be small like a funnel and
have a valve located above the accumulated water/ethanol line. Once the
phase separation occurs and all settles, shut the valve and drain off the
water/ethanol. You end up with pure gasoline minus 3 octane.
What do some of you Chemical Engineers think? I'm willing to test
anything.
Don Smythe
Too much time on my hands.
Message 18
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These are the tanks produced for a Kitfox. Ron NB Or
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: towing kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
I live in Nova Scotia, the aviation community here is great. But I think for
this particular endeavour I'm on my own.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: towing kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 03:53 AM 6/6/2006, you wrote:
>>I want to get my new-to-me aircraft home over the next day or so before it
>>starts raining for the weekend again.
>
> Where are you? There may be someone nearby who has what you need.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: polytank pics |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
Hey, is that tow bar in the background foldable? Mine isn't. More
details please.
Rex
Florida/Colorado
ron schick wrote:
> These are the tanks produced for a Kitfox. Ron NB Or
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked Eng Mount |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
There are many examples of cracked mounts before Skystar came up with
the heavy wall mount $$. Most of the cracks were in the tubing - not
even close to the welds. Guys with powder coated mounts found the
cracks were hidden by the coating because the coating is so flexible.
I would strongly recommend removing the coating on all the upper
tubes from weld to weld and making a close examination. When the
repair is complete don't powder coat use and enamel paint which is
brittle and will reveal a crack as soon as it happens. White is the
best color for showing cracks.`
BTW, there are several reports of the Skystar repairs failing again,
but fix I used is much better than the temporary fix that Skystar was
using and did not work.
If you want the details on how to do a DIY beefup/repair let me know
and I will PM you with pics and specs which Frank Miller gave me.
This info is applicable for the M4 mount which was a Skystar design.
If the newer models use the Rotax style with the circular /ring mount
then I would be of no help.
I hesitate to post the long winded message on the list so If someone
else wants the info I will send it to them as well.
Avoid cracks by using a protocol for start and shutdown that
eliminates engine shake, but, that is another thread.
Regards, Paul W
==============
At 04:58 PM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
>
>I will take a picture this weekend. I have had a carb come off 200 plus hrs
>ago, balancing carbs, new carb sockets, and spring kit seams to have taken
>care of that. 100 plus hrs ago I did the mod to stiffen the eng mounts
>(shorten the bushings). Its more than likely that this has been cracked for
>a wile. Its appears to emanate from the weld and I would say it went aft
>first and could go unnoticed easily. I am an airline mechanic for 27 years,
>including time as a level II NDT, PT, UT, ET & PM. If I had just wiped the
>stain and not go further with power coat removal, it would go till the next
>annual inspection, this is a very fine tight crack. I do not have a slipper
>clutch, and the 912 does shake if you don't get a clean start. The start
>procedure that was on this list of using choke with the ignition off and let
>sit, then set the throttle seams to work better than the primer system. ( I
>took that off) I have never had exhaust or any real fretting problems, when
>running the 912 is awsom powerplant.
>
>Paul N102DG
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jimmieblackwell@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:20 AM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cracked Eng Mount
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jimmie Blackwell
> > <jimmieblackwell@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > This the third engine mount problem, (including mine), with the 912 UL in
> > the last two weeks. I wanted to ask Jim and Paul to post a picture of
> > their cracked mounts on Sportflight and let's try to determine if there is
> > are some common denominators such as torque or total hours on the mount
> > when it fails. Looks like Paul and I had about the same amount of hours
> > when the failure occurred.
> >
> > My rubber engine mount pads had been changed within 15 hours of when my
> > engine mount broke. When changing the rubber pads I torgued all the
> > hardware according to the latest Model IV building manual. I can't help
> > but wonder if the torque settings may be wrong or if there was a batch of
> > bad engine mounts produced at some point. Hopefully, some of you with
> > more experience and knowledge can help us figure out what is causing the
> > engine mount failures before someone hurts their Kitfox or worse,
> > themselves.
> >
> > Jimmie
> > James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > I just found a crack on my model III 912ul. It was on the top of the ring
> > tube of the dynafocal mount. When I pulled the engine, one of the short
> > tubes was also cracked. I have not even done a complete inspection yet.
> > Will keep you informed as to what I find.
> >
> > Even with two cracked tubes on the mounts the engine felt tight and secure
> > on the frame.
> >
> > Jim Shumaker
> >
> > Paul
> > wrote:
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul"
> >
> >
> >
> > I have a Model IV with a 912UL 360TT. I found a eng mount crack on the
> > short
> > tube that connects the top mounts, left side. The crack looked like a
> > stain
> > on the powered coated mount that wiped off. I cleaned the paint off and
> > the
> > tube is cracked half way around. Can any one give me information on the
> > mount? Wall thickness, any weld repair advice is welcome.
> >
> > Paul N102DG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol Question |
Randy,
I use an old saying, "For every good idea on a Kitfox there are a
dozen things (you didn't think of) that will come out and bite you in
the rear. You sound like you have some very good knowledge on this
subject so I think I'll go with plan "B". However, I don't have a plan
"B" right at this moment. Another old saying, "There is a way"
BTW, is there a method to insure a better clean phase separation so
that flying behind might be safer? I'm talking about a method that can
be home made.
Thanks,
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Daughenbaugh
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol Question
Don,
The basics of what you suggest will work. BUT,,,,
You are at risk of making a mistake and loading your tank with a
little water if you don't get a good clean phase separation. Also, as
it cools(cold weather flying), more aqueous layer will separate out. -
stuff that was in the gasoline layer at room temperature. Even with the
phase separation, there is some ethanol and water in the gasoline layer
and some gasoline in the aqueous layer.
Also, the addition of oil may cause some more water/ethanol layer to
separate out. (If you are feeding a 2-stroke.)
And the last thing that comes to mind immediately is that the
difference of 3 octane points may not be precise. In other words
sometimes more than 3 points loss, sometimes less.
And then you will have some gasoline contaminated vodka to dispose of.
Don't drink it!
But it is a great idea. Just not one that I would fly behind.
Randy
.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:44 PM
To: Kitfox List
Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol Question
All,
I've been reading about this Ethanol gasoline and the fact that
it will "Phase Separate" if too much water is present in the fuel.
Someone mentioned this the other day and I had no idea what he was
talking about. One article on the Rotax 582 said that if phase
separation occurs then you have a good amount of combined water/ethanol
laying somewhere in your system which won't burn. Also, once phase
separation occurs you will loose about 3 points on the octane rating.
So, 93 octane would be about 90 octane.
This is really reaching out there but, what if a person built
himself a rig where he could pour in say 5 gallons of gasoline w/ 10%
ethanol and "ADD" 1 gallon of water. Stir slowly and allow to sit for a
period of time. Design the rig so that the bottom portion would be
small like a funnel and have a valve located above the accumulated
water/ethanol line. Once the phase separation occurs and all settles,
shut the valve and drain off the water/ethanol. You end up with pure
gasoline minus 3 octane.
What do some of you Chemical Engineers think? I'm willing to test
anything.
Don Smythe
Too much time on my hands.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: polytank pics |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Those were from an Avid owner who sold out via Steve at Airdale. Contact
Steve to see if remaining tanks or towbar are available. Sorry no more info
available really, only that the poly-tanks have been made. Ron NB Ore
>From: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: polytank pics
>Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:49:53 -0600
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
>
>Hey, is that tow bar in the background foldable? Mine isn't. More details
>please.
>Rex
>Florida/Colorado
>
>ron schick wrote:
>
>>These are the tanks produced for a Kitfox. Ron NB Or
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>>
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Thanks. Yes some folks don't realize that the engine actually breathes
quite a lot of air through breather vents. I drained them about ever
other oil change or 50 hours. The more blow- by you have the more that
is accumulated in the separators. Yep, that was the manual control, way
to much work load. Pretty touchy as I am sure you found out.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:39 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Rick, both shots came out extra good. The system drops the blow
by
oil into the container and the filter is to ensure clean air return? As
Kurt
explained, you would drain the container every so often? Your turbo set
up
looks almost identical to mine, I see the cable that was fr the manual
w/gate, yes?I went through that too but reverted to std system. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
Take a look at the ones I ended up making. I got tired of messes and not
having the crud/sludge acid water purged from my crankcase while allow
clean cool air in. OK here goes first attachment.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Now you mention breathers Kurt, my left hand one pumps out a bit of oil,
what type do you have? My breather pipes elivate up and then drop
through the lower cowl via short stand pipe outlets. No seperators. John
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Great John,
Keep us impressed!
I know what you mean about priorities too. It was a
while before I noticed my gearbox temps were high and
I did something about it, because I too was working on
more pressing matters in early testing. Cooling
always seems an issue early on as well. In my case,
fixing a badly functioning breather came first.
If you plan to go up into the rare air like Rick, you
will need even more pitch to not overspeed or under
power your plane. Once again, mission dictates. With
all your power, you can achieve many objectives with
power to spare, as you already seem to be doing.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks so very much for your assistance on this
> Kurt. Yes, thinking about
> what you say I do need more pitch and going on the
> result from the change I
> made it confirms this. I been a bit focussed on
> getting cooling, belt
> tracking etc sorted but now that those things seem
> pretty well sorted it's
> time for some science. As you say, this is
> fun...I'll post my results. John
__________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
<< PARTINGOUTKITFOX2005-048.jpg >>
<< PARTINGOUTKITFOX2005-049.jpg >>
_________________________________________________________________
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Message 25
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| Subject: | Running on one wing tank? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Question for the group;
My left wing tank aruns out of fuel twice as fast as the right tank in my
model IV-1200. (I have the poly header tank under the turtledeck cover
fwiw). Is this a common problem?
Also, since I put a shut off valve in line from each wing tank, can I run
one tank at a time, or do I risk causing fuel starvation because only the
right tank is actually vented to the header tank?
I thought it was easier to ask those of you that have experienced these
problems rather than to find out the hard way...
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
Model IV-1200 912ul
Aerocet amphibian
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Running on one wing tank? |
Paul,
I usually find my tanks empty at different rates, but not always the s
ame tank. Here's a theory my buddy and I were recently discussing. If yo
u don't keep the ball centered, one tank will flow easier than the other
. A WW2 pilot was telling this to us saying that he learned it many year
s ago. He said if you have the ball off to one side, one tank will flow.
Move the ball to the other side and the other tank flows. I'm going to
test out this theory next time I fly.
Rex in Michigan
-- "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Question for the group;
My left wing tank aruns out of fuel twice as fast as the right tank in m
y
model IV-1200. (I have the poly header tank under the turtledeck cover
fwiw). Is this a common problem?
Also, since I put a shut off valve in line from each wing tank, can I ru
n
one tank at a time, or do I risk causing fuel starvation because only t
he
right tank is actually vented to the header tank?
I thought it was easier to ask those of you that have experienced these
problems rather than to find out the hard way...
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
Model IV-1200 912ul
Aerocet amphibian
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html><P>Paul,</P>
<P> I usually find my tanks empty at different rates, but not alwa
ys the same tank. Here's a theory my buddy and I were recently discussin
g. If you don't keep the ball centered, one tank will flow easier than t
he other. A WW2 pilot was telling this to us saying that he learned it m
any years ago. He said if you have the ball off to one side, one tank wi
ll flow. Move the ball to the other side and the other tank flows. I'm g
oing to test out this theory next time I fly. </P>
<P>Rex in Michigan</P>
<P><BR><BR>-- "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>&nb
sp;wrote:<BR>--> Kitfox-List message posted by:&n
bsp;"Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com><BR><BR>Question&n
bsp;for the group;<BR><BR>My left wing tank&nbs
p;aruns out of fuel twice as fast as&
nbsp;the right tank in my <BR>model IV-120
0. (I have the poly header tank under
the turtledeck cover <BR>fwiw). Is
this a common problem?<BR><BR>Also, since I&nbs
p;put a shut off valve in line from&n
bsp;each wing tank, can I run <BR>one 
;tank at a time, or do I risk ca
using fuel starvation because only the&nb
sp;<BR>right tank is actually vented to th
e header tank?<BR><BR>I thought it was eas
ier to ask those of you that have&nbs
p;experienced these <BR>problems rather than to
find out the hard way...<BR><BR><BR>Paul
Seehafer<BR>Central Wisconsin<BR>Model IV-1200 912u
========================
========================
sp; - The Kitfox-List Email Forum -<
= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day B
========================
sp; &nb
bsp;Check out the All New Matronics Email&
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
========================
- List C
p; &nbs
p; &nbs
========================
========================
=========<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <BR> <BR
></P></html>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Running on one wing tank? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Paul,
As long as the header tank is vented from somewhere,
it can be filled by either or both sources. If you
turn either tank off, the other side should draw fuel
fine, as long as the cap vent works. If you turn them
both off, the header vent will allow the header to
feed the engine until it is empty. If the vent is
closed off, a number of problems can occur, We all
need to make sure that is never blocked.
I had a problem on my flight up to West Bend, WI last
fall. One tank stayed full until the other flowed
down to 3 gallons remaining. I swapped gas caps and
it flowed in the other direction. One bad cap seal.
I flew home with a clamp on the low tank hose as a
shutoff to balance fuel and with new seals.
Other possible causes:
As was already mentioned, uncoordinated flight will
cause flow differences too.
A cap that is venting poorly might slow the flow more
than the good tank, but it would have to be almost
completely blocked. Fuel flow rates are low. I
always blow thru the cap vents while I have them off
during preflight.
Partially blocked finger strainer?
Crimped hose?
You should have no problem taking off with both tanks
open, then balancing in flight with your shutoffs.
Both on again "prior to descent" for landing. Both
open prior to descent is important to make sure an
unported tank doesn't drain your header. (Lesson
learned earlier on this list.)
Do you have a header tank low fuel light for "just in
case"?
Kurt S. S-5
--- Paul Seehafer <av8rps@tznet.com> wrote:
> Question for the group;
>
> My left wing tank runs out of fuel twice as fast as
> the right tank in my
> model IV-1200. (I have the poly header tank under
> the turtledeck cover
> fwiw). Is this a common problem?
>
> Also, since I put a shut off valve in line from each
> wing tank, can I run
> one tank at a time, or do I risk causing fuel
> starvation because only the
> right tank is actually vented to the header tank?
>
> I thought it was easier to ask those of you that
> have experienced these
> problems rather than to find out the hard way...
>
>
> Paul Seehafer
> Central Wisconsin
> Model IV-1200 912ul
> Aerocet amphibian
__________________________________________________
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
About when did your Soob break in? What were the
symptoms? Temps, blowby oil accumulated, power?
I heard that about 300 hrs is the magic number. Since
yours was a superior engine, I understand results may
vary. :-)
Kurt S.
--- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
> Thanks. Yes some folks don't realize that the engine
> actually breathes
> quite a lot of air through breather vents. I drained
> them about ever
> other oil change or 50 hours. The more blow- by you
> have the more that is accumulated in the separators.
__________________________________________________
Message 29
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
Right now it is set so that the primary pump gives its
4-6 psi and the B/U pump comes on when pressure drops
to 3.5 psi for any reason in flight.
Before this setup, I ran one pump in flight, except
T/O and landing, and found the pressure could get down
below 2 psi under high power on one pump.
In neither case could I catch the fuel pressure being
the cause. Not ruled out, but EGT was good for the
entire flight, or not good, and fuel pressure varied
with power, not per flight.
I plan to revamp the fuel system, tank to engine, and
see if I can stumble across a cure. One size larger
tubing too. 1/4th inch ID for the smallest line right
now.
Kurt S.
--- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
> Are you leaving the fuel pump on all the time? If
> you are not seeing 5
> psi all the time that could be a possible problem.
> With the pump off you
> will see higher EGTs. Has that been your experience
> as well.
>
> Rick
__________________________________________________
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