Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:40 AM - Re: Throttle Body (QSS)
2. 01:30 AM - Re: Specs (John Anderson)
3. 02:16 AM - Re: Michigan Fly-in this Sunday (Rexster)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Cracked engine mount (PWilson)
5. 06:53 AM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (Ron Liebmann)
6. 07:00 AM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (kitfoxmike)
7. 07:29 AM - Re: Michigan Fly-in this Sunday (Rueb, Duane)
8. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: Cracked engine mount (Jimmie Blackwell)
9. 09:17 AM - Re: Michigan Fly-in this Sunday (Lynn Matteson)
10. 02:35 PM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (W & R Beck)
11. 03:16 PM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (Ted Palamarek)
12. 03:32 PM - Carb retaining springs (Lyle Persels)
13. 03:34 PM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (Larry Huntley)
14. 03:53 PM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (Ceashman@aol.com)
15. 05:16 PM - Re: Carb retaining springs (Rexster)
16. 05:47 PM - Re: Carb retaining springs (Don Smythe)
17. 06:18 PM - Re: Specs (wingsdown)
18. 06:25 PM - Re: Specs (wingsdown)
19. 07:13 PM - Re: Specs (John Anderson)
20. 07:13 PM - Re: Specs (John Anderson)
21. 07:32 PM - Re: Specs (wingsdown)
22. 08:25 PM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (W & R Beck)
23. 09:34 PM - Re: Specs (John Anderson)
24. 10:21 PM - Re: Specs (kurt schrader)
25. 10:47 PM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (kurt schrader)
26. 10:50 PM - Re: Throttle Body (kurt schrader)
27. 11:05 PM - Re: Specs (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Body |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "QSS" <msm@byterocky.net>
Hi Kurt, I appreciate the reply. I have heard of people using mogas with the
TBI but wasn't sure about any issues with its use. I really would like to
continue using it but not at the expense of any damage it might cause. I
suspected the TBI had some water ingress and although many suggested I do
the overhaul myself I decided to bite the bullet and get it checked out by
the manufacturer. I have listed the work that was required to be undertaken
by them and the costs. It proved to be a wise move as apparently there was
some corrosion and damaged parts.
Labor - $151.20 (3.36 Hours @ $45/Hr.)
Parts - $108.23
Shipping & Handling - $54.20
1. The unit was completely disassemble, inspected and cleaned.
2. Corrosion area by ICV ground out.
3. All aluminum parts etched and alodined.
4. Teflon Insert and Slide Seals epoxied into place.
5. Body & Regulator built up.
6. New ICV installed and leak checked.
7. Cracking Pressure checked and set.
8. Final assembly
9. Check and set Idle Leak Rate.
Regards
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Throttle Body
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Graeme,
>
> What did the overhaul cost? I might do it too. I
> used local fuel for 2 years until I found it had
> unlabeled addatives.
>
>>From what I was told, they can see the damage from
> alcohol right off. Don't know if it is the seals or
> if the aluminum body corrodes from it. Maybe both? I
> haven't called them yet on it.
>
> kurt s.
>
> --- QSS <msm@byterocky.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys, I have just received my Ellison throttle
>> body back from the USA after a factory overhaul. In
>> the manual provided I note that Mogas/premium motor
>> fuel is not recommended for use. I had run my engine
>> on mogas until my accident and was unaware of any
>> restriction on the use of particular fuels through
>> these throttle bodies. Can anyone with the Ellison
>> system comment on how critical this policy on
>> burning only avgas is and if using mogas is a real
>> no-no. I dont have a problem using avgas but
>> sourcing it in our area is very difficult and I
>> would like to avoid using 44 gallon storage drums if
>> at all possible.
>>
>> Regards
>> Graeme
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Yes Rick, I agree re the great benefit from exchange of good ideas and more
so red flags. The valve that let go (on your engine?), was it an original or
replacement? I reused the original valves in my engine as they looked
perfect and it was a low mileage engine. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Just what I believe to be true. Stock valves are just that stock steel
valves. Our application subjects them to IMHO abnormal stresses. I have
by no means done any subjective test nor do I have reams of research to
document anything. Just based on my observations, personal, observed and
read. What's great about this media we exchange ideas, thoughts and
experiences in is the collective wisdom or at least red flags that are
raised. If I built another engine these things I would do.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
This is new news to me Rick, you saying that the stock soob turbo valves
not
good? I have the stock (original) valve gear still fitted?? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Well we can not count all the stock exhaust cross over failures until we
got the new SS set. I think I had just the right number of fingers
though. 350 hours seems about right, and it was an exhaust valve that
snapped just below the scallop number 3 cylinder. That was stock
components. SS with bronze guides is the only way to go for the boost
folks. If I were doing another set of heads I would coat at least coat
the exhaust runners and ports with Swain coating. The beat would be a
complete coating of the combustion chamber in the heads and all exposed
aluminum. I did the SS valve crowns as well.
OK misread the whole dang post.
Compression was good from the get go and only improved marginally over
time. I don't remember the numbers but I want to say 140 all around. No
real blow by on new engine. I wish I had kept better notes. I also had
the block, rings and pistons cryogenic treated so who knows. I was
really looking forward to a 3000hr TBO :)
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
About when did your Soob break in? What were the
symptoms? Temps, blowby oil accumulated, power?
I heard that about 300 hrs is the magic number. Since
yours was a superior engine, I understand results may
vary. :-)
Kurt S.
--- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
>Thanks. Yes some folks don't realize that the engine
>actually breathes
>quite a lot of air through breather vents. I drained
>them about ever
>other oil change or 50 hours. The more blow- by you
>have the more that is accumulated in the separators.
__________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
_________________________________________________________________
Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Michigan Fly-in this Sunday |
Hi Lynn,
Chapter 13 has their meetings the first Thursday of each month which w
as last Thursday on June 1st. I announced the JXN fly-in at that meeting
. www.EAAchapter13.org. Keep your eyes open for me in the yellow Fox.
Rex
-- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Hope to see you there, Rex...by the way, your Chapter has its meeting
Thursday night, right? Maybe I can drive over there and put in a plug
for the JXN thing.
Lynn
do not archive
On Wednesday, June 7, 2006, at 06:52 PM, Rexster wrote:
>
> Lynn,
>
> I plan to be there Sunday! I'll be coming from 57D (Ray Community)
> which is about 20 miles north of Detroit. We're pretty close to
> Selfridge Air National Guard base. Anybody else going?
>
> Rex Phelps Model 3
>
>
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> >
> > Don't forget that the Jackson, Michigan (JXN) Pancake Breakfast Fly-
> in and
> > Cruise-in happens this Sunday, June 11. All you west-
> coasters, have fun
> > at Lowell's Cameron Park fly-
> in, and those of you closer to the east coast
> > might want to think about coming to the 38th Annual all-you-can-eat
> > pancake breakfast, combined with the 1st annual "east-of-the-
> Rockies"
> > Kitfox get-together (official name to be chosen later) for fun and
> > whatever. This is an all-weekend event (the fly-
> in is Sunday only) which
> > is described on sportflight.com under fly-in/airshows. (The file is
> > HUGE...sorry about that.) The breakfast is held in the EAA hangar...
y
> ou
> > won't get wet perchance it rains. We'd like to see as many Kitfoxes
a
> s
> > possible. Let's try to out-
> number the metal monsters, if possible. If you
> > don't have a Kitfox, jump into your favorite experimental (or whatev
e
> r)
> > and come join us.
> >
> > There will be cars, motorcycles, trucks, model airplanes.... 25 auto
m
> obile
> > trophies to be awarded, as well as a genuine leather flight jacket t
o
> be
> > raffled off at 2 pm, Sunday. Besides the breakfast, other food is
> > available on-site, and DJ music will be played.
> >
> > Questions? Give me a holler....
> >
> > Lynn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> > http://wiki.matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >&n=======================
=sp; - The p;Matronics List Features
> Navigator to browse
>
>
>
>
>
>
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html><P>Hi Lynn,</P>
<P> Chapter 13 has their meetings the first Thursday of each month
which was last Thursday on June 1st. I announced the JXN fly-in at that
meeting. <A href="http://www.eaachapter13.org/">www.EAAchapter13.org<
/A>. Keep your eyes open for me in the yellow Fox. </P>
<P>Rex</P><BR><BR>-- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net&g
t; wrote:<BR>--> Kitfox-List message posted
by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net><BR><BR>Hope&nb
sp;to see you there, Rex...by the way,&nbs
p;your Chapter has its meeting <BR>Thursd
ay night, right? Maybe I can drive ov
er there and put in a plug <BR>
for the JXN thing.<BR><BR>Lynn<BR>do not archiv
e<BR><BR>On Wednesday, June 7, 2006, at 06
:52 PM, Rexster wrote:<BR><BR>><BR>> Lyn
n,<BR>><BR>> I plan to 
;be there Sunday! I'll be coming from 
;57D (Ray Community) <BR>> which is&nb
sp;about 20 miles north of Detroit. We're&
nbsp;pretty close to <BR>> Selfridge A
ir National Guard base. Anybody else going
?<BR>><BR>> Rex Phelps Model 3<BR>><BR>>
<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> > -->
Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson&nb
sp;<lynnmatt@jps.net><BR>> ><BR>> > Don
't forget that the Jackson, Michigan (JXN)
Pancake Breakfast Fly- <BR>> in and&nb
sp;<BR>> > Cruise-in happens this Sunday,
June 11. All you west- <BR>>&nbs
p;coasters, have fun <BR>> > at Lowe
ll's Cameron Park fly- <BR>> in, and&nb
sp;those of you closer to the east co
ast <BR>> > might want to think 
;about coming to the 38th Annual all-you-c
an-eat <BR>> > pancake breakfast, combine
d with the 1st annual "east-of-the- <BR>&g
t; Rockies" <BR>> > Kitfox get-together&n
bsp;(official name to be chosen later) for
fun and <BR>> > whatever. This 
;is an all-weekend event (the fly- <BR>>
; in is Sunday only) which <BR>> &
gt; is described on sportflight.com under
fly-in/airshows. (The file is <BR>> >&nbs
p;HUGE...sorry about that.) The breakfast is&nb
sp;held in the EAA hangar...y <BR>> ou&
nbsp;<BR>> > won't get wet perchance 
;it rains. We'd like to see as many&n
bsp;Kitfoxes a <BR>> s <BR>> > po
ssible. Let's try to out- <BR>> number&
nbsp;the metal monsters, if possible. If y
ou <BR>> > don't have a Kitfox, 
;jump into your favorite experimental (or
whateve <BR>> r) <BR>> > and come
join us.<BR>> ><BR>> > There
will be cars, motorcycles, trucks, model a
irplanes.... 25 autom <BR>> obile <BR>>&n
bsp;> trophies to be awarded, as well&n
bsp;as a genuine leather flight jacket to&
nbsp;<BR>> be <BR>> > raffled of
f at 2 pm, Sunday. Besides the breakf
ast, other food is <BR>> > available
on-site, and DJ music will be played
.<BR>> ><BR>> > Questions? Give me&
nbsp;a holler....<BR>> ><BR>> > Lynn<BR>
> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<BR>&g
t; > http://wiki.matronics.com<BR>> ><BR>>&nb
sp;><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>>&nb
sp;><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >&n==
======================sp;&nb
sp; - The p;Mat
ronics List Features <BR>> Navigator t
o browse<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> <BR>> &
========================
========================
- The Kitfox-List Email Forum 
sp;utilities such as the Subscriptions page,<BR
sp; &nb
sp; &nb
sp; &nb
========================
Check out the All New Matronics Emai
;  
;  
;  
========================
- List C
p; &nbs
p; &nbs
========================
========================
=========<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <BR> </h
tml>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: Cracked engine mount |
"Paul N102DG " <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
Your mail box is full so I cannot send you the info you requested
The message I received was:
This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
The user(s) account is temporarily over quota.
Regards, Paul W
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
Hi Robert,
Send me your new e-mail address directly. I'd like to fly to Lewis and
see your Fox. I think that the wrinkle is caused by temp & or humidity.
I have seen it before.
Ron
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: W & R Beck
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:30 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles
Hello Folks:
I am an old time member of the Kitfox List from about 8 years ago;
just returned to the US and newly signed up. I need some advice.
A few days ago, after having folded the wings on my 310-hour Model IV
1050, I noticed some subtle longitudinal (front-to-back) wrinkles on the
top fuselage fabric, in the bay that starts about a foot in front of the
vertical stabilizer. I have never seen them before and cannot think of
any reason, or abuse to the plane, that could have caused them to
appear. The wrinkles smooth out a bit when the wings are swung out for
flight. It is surely not temperature related, and no one to my knowledge
has ham-fistedly handled the plane in a way that would bend tubing. It
is always hangared and my hangar mate's plane has been off getting its
annual and some new paint for the last
2 weeks.
My initial thought was that I had a broken weld somewhere, tempered
somewhat by the knowledge that I have not heard of this happening to any
other Kitfox. I spent an hour yesterday visually looking over, then
pulling and pushing on the individual tubes inside the fuselage that I
could reach from the opening below the turtledeck and through inspection
holes, and pushing against those I could not reach with a wooden stick.
I found none loose. Then a Pitts owner and I spent about an hour trying
to torque the fuselage weldment any way we could, by the vertical and
horizontal tails, pushing down on the fuselage, by the wingtips with
wings out, by the wings when folded, etc., and we could not find any
combination that would increase or make any visually discernible
difference in the wrinkles, nor were there any abnormal airframe sounds
or clicking. These crude tests don't eliminate the possibility of a
broken weld but do diminish it.
The wrinkles are to me a rather strange anomaly -suddenly there for no
apparent reason.
Has anyone on the List come across anything similar? Any advice on
further checks I could make?
Thanks in advance.
Robert Beck
PS Hi Ron!
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
I had an area in the rear section behind the rudder cable exits, both sides, I
didn't get excited about it and took a little hobby heat gun and run over the
area until the area was smooth. Had the same type of thing up on the tank area,
did the same thing.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=39348#39348
Message 7
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| Subject: | Michigan Fly-in this Sunday |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane" <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
Dear Lowell:
I see what you mean. Don't we already have a 'magazine' for the
super rich pilots of the world in the form of the AOPA rag? I thought
that the EAA was all about the kind of stuff that we work with,
basically affordable, fun aircraft, not potential rockets to the moon.
Yes, I agree with you that the focus on plastic, multi-hundred thousand
$ machines is not in the spirit of what the EAA says it is all about.
At Oshkosh a wide spectrum of aviation is displayed, but
certainly has seemed always to welcome, and even to focus on planes that
are affordable to persons of middle class means. So it seems now that
here at the Golden West, the low and slow airplanes have to be specially
accommodated rather than welcomed. That is sad, and not evocative of
the spirit of the EAA that I believed I had joined.
Thanks what you do for the Kitfox group, Duane
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Michigan Fly-in this Sunday
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
.Thanks for the post, Duane. And sorry for the confict created by the
overlapping date.
I might mention some of the thinking regarding our date. First, It has
always been on the second Saturday in June with one exception. One year
FOCA (Friends of Cameron Park Airport) scheduled thier street fair on
the
second Saturday. We had six months notice and decided that safety
concerns
dictated a date with fewer non flyers on the airpark street / taxiways.
Golden West has bounced around a bit on dates as has their venue and
they
have not been in the habit of announcing dates early. They seem to
still be
somewhat in the gestation stage.
I had heard rumors in the past that they wanted us to feed Kitfoxes to
their
fly-in, but until this year it was only rumors. I did get a call a
couple
of months ago from a woman I knew from the Hangtown Chapter of EAA
asking if
I could do just that. As politely as I could, I asked what there would
be
there for us, i.e, why will we want to go. I got no specific response.
Then I gave my reason for the question. About 4 years ago, I took my
airplane there early on Friday and left it until late Sunday afternoon.
I
entered my Model IV for judging. I probably had as many judge initials
on
my prop card as any other airplane there. I was pretty excited. When
they
announced the awards they were in four divisions as I recall, Warbird,
Certified, Antique and Homebuilt. They awarded First, Second and Third
places in the four catagories. The winners in the homebuilt division
were
all professionally finished plastic airplanes - you all have seem them.
Incidentally, I don't recall another Kitfox there, I drove home each
night,
but spent all three days there.
I asked if this year there would be a tube and fabric judging division,
she
said, "I doubt it". She then said that if I were to promise a certain
number of Kitfoxes next year, she would promise a judging award for our
type. In other words it seemed that if we promised to appear, they
would do
something for us. Sort of reverse marketing - we have to market
ourselves to
them.
This woman is active on the Lacair builders list - actually her husband
-
and her next comment didn't surprise me. She said that the homebuilt
movement is moved by the most popular airplanes and that is why there
was
nothing planned for the low and slow types. A quick check of the Golden
West website confirmed my suspicions. Their board of directors is
dominated
by builders and owners of flight level airplanes. Pardon the venting,
but
has anyone compared Sport Pilot and Kitplanes magazines lately? We are
being pretty much ignored by the powers in EAA.
I considered this a bit and sort of concluded that the folks that can
build
and fly $200,000 airplanes are likely to be the ones that like to sit on
the
boards of organizations and it is not too curious that they see what
they
see, think what they think and get what they want. I did agree to work
with
Golden West, I don't know how yet, to make the event more Kitfox
friendly
next year. If it requires a date change for us, I don't see that as a
problem. But at present, I really don't see much of a conflict as they
are
two quite different events.
Lowell
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rueb, Duane" <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Michigan Fly-in this Sunday
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane"
<ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
>
> Lynn:
>
> Here on the left coast we have enough problems with scheduling
> already, since June 10 is the date of both Lowell Fitt's barbecue
fly-in
> and the EAA Golden West fly-in at Marysville. Although it is probably
> not practical for one airplane to make a showing at both, due to
> arrival/departure control, by driving to them, one could do so. I am
> considering it, especially since I am not through with either my
> checkout in mine nor the service session that it is now undergoing. I
> know this is not what it is really all about, but wouldn't that be
> better than missing one or the other or both?
>
> Duane Rueb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:50 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Michigan Fly-in this Sunday
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Don't forget that the Jackson, Michigan (JXN) Pancake Breakfast Fly-in
> and Cruise-in happens this Sunday, June 11. All you west-coasters,
> have fun at Lowell's Cameron Park fly-in, and those of you closer to
> the east coast might want to think about coming to the 38th Annual
> all-you-can-eat pancake breakfast, combined with the 1st annual
> "east-of-the-Rockies" Kitfox get-together (official name to be chosen
> later) for fun and whatever. This is an all-weekend event (the fly-in
> is Sunday only) which is described on sportflight.com under
> fly-in/airshows. (The file is HUGE...sorry about that.) The breakfast
> is held in the EAA hangar...you won't get wet perchance it rains. We'd
> like to see as many Kitfoxes as possible. Let's try to out-number the
> metal monsters, if possible. If you don't have a Kitfox, jump into
your
> favorite experimental (or whatever) and come join us.
>
> There will be cars, motorcycles, trucks, model airplanes.... 25
> automobile trophies to be awarded, as well as a genuine leather flight
> jacket to be raffled off at 2 pm, Sunday. Besides the breakfast, other
> food is available on-site, and DJ music will be played.
>
> Questions? Give me a holler....
>
> Lynn
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Cracked engine mount |
Paul
Would appreciate you trying again. From here it looks like I am only 7 % full
and have been getting lengthy emails from other folks. Thanks for your patience
and please let me know if it fails again. I will call my provider.
Jimmie
PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com> wrote:
"Paul N102DG " <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
Your mail box is full so I cannot send you the info you requested
The message I received was:
This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
The user(s) account is temporarily over quota.
Regards, Paul W
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Michigan Fly-in this Sunday |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Thanks for the heads-up, Rex....as it turns out, tonight is "gettin' my
plane out to JXN night" as my instructor is heading out of town for the
Splash-in up at Otsego Lake, and today is the only day that we can take
it out for its appearance at the Sunday Fly-in. (I'm not ready for solo
yet, let alone landing on JXN's paved runways.) I'll be somewhere in
the parking area near the EAA hangar, which is on the SW corner of JXN.
We are going to try to get all experimentals up close to the building,
as this is what the EAA is all about (thanks for pointing that out,
Duane).
Lynn
do not archive
On Thursday, June 8, 2006, at 05:12 AM, Rexster wrote:
> Hi Lynn,
>
> Chapter 13 has their meetings the first Thursday of each month which
> was last Thursday on June 1st. I announced the JXN fly-in at that
> meeting. www.EAAchapter13.org. Keep your eyes open for me in the
> yellow Fox.
>
> Rex
>
>
> --LynnMatteson<lynnmatt@jps.net>wrote:
> -->Kitfox-Listmessagepostedby:LynnMatteson<lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Hopetoseeyouthere,Rex...bytheway,yourChapterhasitsmeeting
> Thursdaynight,right?MaybeIcandriveoverthereandputinaplug
> fortheJXNthing.
>
> Lynn
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "W & R Beck" <trevorkebb@earthlink.net>
Kurt:
Thanks for your reply.
No, the wrinkles are in the larger bay just in front of the handle, a bit to
the right side longeron, which is quite a long, unsupported tube. The right
longeron shows a tad more bend than the left, both of them having had very
slight bends after fabric shrinkage, since the plane was built. It is
probably that right side top longeron tube. The question is, why does it
suddenly have a bend in it?
I spent another few hours the other day checking every weld I could get to
with either my hand, a push-stick, or a mirror and light, all the way from
the tailwheel to the primary cockpit structure, and could come up with no
squawks.
So today I went flying for 2 hours. No noticeable difference in trim.
It's a mystery.
Robert Beck
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> I'd immediately assume the same things you did, that
> there is some flexing going on there. Usually the
> fabric tension doesn't release enough under normal
> flex to wrinkle. That would create a problem on our
> wings and tail surfaces!
>
> Is that the bay with the lift handle? Just a
> thought...
>
> Because that is a small width of fabric back there, a
> smaller flex would show quicker, in my opinion.
>
> Not sure if you tried this, but put a straight edge to
> the tubing between welds on either side of the
> wrinkles and see if they are drawn in. Then push on
> these tubes 1/2 way between welds and see if the
> fabric shows a change. If the fabric had been too
> tight to begin with, the tubes could have curved in
> and began flexing over time.
>
> Check with another same model Fox and see how straight
> they are so I don't mislead you, if they are meant to
> be curved on your model. I think they are nearly
> straight between bays?
>
> Those are the only additional raw checks I can think
> of.
>
> Kurt S. S-5
>
> --- W & R Beck <trevorkebb@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello Folks:
>>
>> I am an old time member of the Kitfox List from
>> about 8 years ago; just returned to the US and newly
>> signed up. I need some advice.
>>
>> A few days ago, after having folded the wings on my
>> 310-hour Model IV 1050, I noticed some subtle
>> longitudinal (front-to-back) wrinkles on the top
>> fuselage fabric, in the bay that starts about a foot
>> in front of the vertical stabilizer. I have never
>> seen them before and cannot think of any reason, or
>> abuse to the plane, that could have caused them to
>> appear. The wrinkles smooth out a bit when the wings
>> are swung out for flight. It is surely not
>> temperature related, and no one to my knowledge has
>> ham-fistedly handled the plane in a way that would
>> bend tubing. It is always hangared and my hangar
>> mate's plane has been off getting its annual and
>> some new paint for the last
>> 2 weeks.
>>
>> My initial thought was that I had a broken weld
>> somewhere, tempered somewhat by the knowledge that I
>> have not heard of this happening to any other
>> Kitfox. I spent an hour yesterday visually looking
>> over, then pulling and pushing on the individual
>> tubes inside the fuselage that I could reach from
>> the opening below the turtledeck and through
>> inspection holes, and pushing against those I could
>> not reach with a wooden stick. I found none loose.
>> Then a Pitts owner and I spent about an hour trying
>> to torque the fuselage weldment any way we could, by
>> the vertical and horizontal tails, pushing down on
>> the fuselage, by the wingtips with wings out, by the
>> wings when folded, etc., and we could not find any
>> combination that would increase or make any visually
>> discernible difference in the wrinkles, nor were
>> there any abnormal airframe sounds or clicking.
>> These crude tests don't eliminate the possibility of
>> a broken weld but do diminish it.
>>
>> The wrinkles are to me a rather strange anomaly
>> -suddenly there for no apparent reason.
>>
>> Has anyone on the List come across anything similar?
>> Any advice on further checks I could make?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Robert Beck
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Robert
This may be a bit of a stretch, but, have you looked at the two wooden
stringers along the side of the fuselage that runs from just back of the
doors to near the horizontal stabilizer. Perhaps one of these has warped or
broken causing the fabric ripple.
Just a thought
Ted
Edmonton, Ab
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "W & R Beck" <trevorkebb@earthlink.net>
Kurt:
Thanks for your reply.
No, the wrinkles are in the larger bay just in front of the handle, a bit to
the right side longeron, which is quite a long, unsupported tube. The right
longeron shows a tad more bend than the left, both of them having had very
slight bends after fabric shrinkage, since the plane was built. It is
probably that right side top longeron tube. The question is, why does it
suddenly have a bend in it?
I spent another few hours the other day checking every weld I could get to
with either my hand, a push-stick, or a mirror and light, all the way from
the tailwheel to the primary cockpit structure, and could come up with no
squawks.
So today I went flying for 2 hours. No noticeable difference in trim.
It's a mystery.
Robert Beck
Message 12
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| Subject: | Carb retaining springs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com>
Does anyone have handy the Skystar part number for the small springs
that help hold the carburetors on the sockets on the 912UL. I don't
have my pubs immediately available and I'l like to order replacements
from Sport Plane, LLC. Better yet, has anyone found a less costly
substitute?
Lyle Persels
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Robert,
Was it towed over rough terrain(or road)? Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "W & R Beck" <trevorkebb@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "W & R Beck" <trevorkebb@earthlink.net>
>
> Kurt:
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> No, the wrinkles are in the larger bay just in front of the handle, a bit
> to the right side longeron, which is quite a long, unsupported tube. The
> right longeron shows a tad more bend than the left, both of them having
> had very slight bends after fabric shrinkage, since the plane was built.
> It is probably that right side top longeron tube. The question is, why
> does it suddenly have a bend in it?
>
> I spent another few hours the other day checking every weld I could get to
> with either my hand, a push-stick, or a mirror and light, all the way from
> the tailwheel to the primary cockpit structure, and could come up with no
> squawks.
>
> So today I went flying for 2 hours. No noticeable difference in trim.
>
> It's a mystery.
>
> Robert Beck
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> I'd immediately assume the same things you did, that
>> there is some flexing going on there. Usually the
>> fabric tension doesn't release enough under normal
>> flex to wrinkle. That would create a problem on our
>> wings and tail surfaces!
>>
>> Is that the bay with the lift handle? Just a
>> thought...
>>
>> Because that is a small width of fabric back there, a
>> smaller flex would show quicker, in my opinion.
>>
>> Not sure if you tried this, but put a straight edge to
>> the tubing between welds on either side of the
>> wrinkles and see if they are drawn in. Then push on
>> these tubes 1/2 way between welds and see if the
>> fabric shows a change. If the fabric had been too
>> tight to begin with, the tubes could have curved in
>> and began flexing over time.
>>
>> Check with another same model Fox and see how straight
>> they are so I don't mislead you, if they are meant to
>> be curved on your model. I think they are nearly
>> straight between bays?
>>
>> Those are the only additional raw checks I can think
>> of.
>>
>> Kurt S. S-5
>>
>> --- W & R Beck <trevorkebb@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Folks:
>>>
>>> I am an old time member of the Kitfox List from
>>> about 8 years ago; just returned to the US and newly
>>> signed up. I need some advice.
>>>
>>> A few days ago, after having folded the wings on my
>>> 310-hour Model IV 1050, I noticed some subtle
>>> longitudinal (front-to-back) wrinkles on the top
>>> fuselage fabric, in the bay that starts about a foot
>>> in front of the vertical stabilizer. I have never
>>> seen them before and cannot think of any reason, or
>>> abuse to the plane, that could have caused them to
>>> appear. The wrinkles smooth out a bit when the wings
>>> are swung out for flight. It is surely not
>>> temperature related, and no one to my knowledge has
>>> ham-fistedly handled the plane in a way that would
>>> bend tubing. It is always hangared and my hangar
>>> mate's plane has been off getting its annual and
>>> some new paint for the last
>>> 2 weeks.
>>>
>>> My initial thought was that I had a broken weld
>>> somewhere, tempered somewhat by the knowledge that I
>>> have not heard of this happening to any other
>>> Kitfox. I spent an hour yesterday visually looking
>>> over, then pulling and pushing on the individual
>>> tubes inside the fuselage that I could reach from
>>> the opening below the turtledeck and through
>>> inspection holes, and pushing against those I could
>>> not reach with a wooden stick. I found none loose.
>>> Then a Pitts owner and I spent about an hour trying
>>> to torque the fuselage weldment any way we could, by
>>> the vertical and horizontal tails, pushing down on
>>> the fuselage, by the wingtips with wings out, by the
>>> wings when folded, etc., and we could not find any
>>> combination that would increase or make any visually
>>> discernible difference in the wrinkles, nor were
>>> there any abnormal airframe sounds or clicking.
>>> These crude tests don't eliminate the possibility of
>>> a broken weld but do diminish it.
>>>
>>> The wrinkles are to me a rather strange anomaly
>>> -suddenly there for no apparent reason.
>>>
>>> Has anyone on the List come across anything similar?
>>> Any advice on further checks I could make?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Robert Beck
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
>No, the wrinkles are in the larger bay just in front of the handle, a bit to
>the right side longeron, which is quite a long, unsupported tube. The right
>longeron shows a tad more bend than the left, both of them having had very
>slight bends after fabric shrinkage, since the plane was built. It is
>probably that right side top longeron tube. The question is, why does it
>suddenly have a bend in it?
Hi Robert.
Are you sharing a hangar?
The bend is in the top longeron tube opposite side to the ground moving
handle. Could someone have tried to shove the plane with the chocks in place or
the
tail wheel locked and did not know what he was doing?
Could something heavy have fallen on the side of the plane, any traces of
surface paint damage in the area?
Have you had a real heavy tail wheel first three point landing recently?
I believe the fabric can expand if you place too much heat, but that is
noticed at the exact moment of shrinking, incorrectly. And the direct sun could
not
effect it, even though the color is very dark because it would not reach the
temperature of expansion.
You must have been flying too close to the sun!
Eric.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Carb retaining springs |
Lyle,
I don't know of any requirements for these springs other than they hel
p keep the carb in to the manifold socket. I used to be lucky to get 100
hours from a set of carb sockets. The $6 Ski Doo sockets I have on mine
now are over 300 hours and look fine. The difference is that I went to
a hardware store and added two more springs to the two already on the Ro
tax. Top, bottom, right and left for me. Stare at your needs under the c
owl so you know what you're looking for. Go to the hardware store and lo
ok at the huge spring selection. Buy a little variety of what looks good
and head back to the plane with a smile. If you just have to have the e
xact spring that came with the engine, you can always call Rotax.
Leading Edge Airfoils 800 532 3462
Lockwood Aviation (I don't have their number handy)
Michigan Rex
-- Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com>
Does anyone have handy the Skystar part number for the small springs
that help hold the carburetors on the sockets on the 912UL. I don't
have my pubs immediately available and I'l like to order replacements
from Sport Plane, LLC. Better yet, has anyone found a less costly
substitute?
Lyle Persels
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html><P>Lyle,</P>
<P> I don't know of any requirements for these springs other than
they help keep the carb in to the manifold socket. I used to be lucky to
get 100 hours from a set of carb sockets. The $6 Ski Doo sockets I have
on mine now are over 300 hours and look fine. The difference is that I
went to a hardware store and added two more springs to the two already o
n the Rotax. Top, bottom, right and left for me. Stare at your needs und
er the cowl so you know what you're looking for. Go to the hardware stor
e and look at the huge spring selection. Buy a little variety of what lo
oks good and head back to the plane with a smile. If you just have to ha
ve the exact spring that came with the engine, you can always call Rotax
.</P>
<P>Leading Edge Airfoils 800 532 3462</P>
<P>Lockwood Aviation (I don't have their n
umber handy)</P>
<P>Michigan Rex</P>
<P> </P>
<P><BR><BR>-- Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com> w
rote:<BR>--> Kitfox-List message posted by:
Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com><BR><BR>Does anyone&n
bsp;have handy the Skystar part number for
the small springs <BR>that help hol
d the carburetors on the sockets on t
he 912UL. I don't <BR>have my pubs&n
bsp;immediately available and I'l like to
order replacements <BR>from Sport Plane,
LLC. Better yet, has anyone found a l
ess costly <BR>substitute?<BR><BR>Lyle Persels<BR><
========================
sp; - The Kitfox-List
;the many List utilities such as the
========================
========================
sp; - NEW MATRONICS LI
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
========================
=======================<BR
- List Contribution Web Site -<BR>_
-= Thank you for your generous&nb
p; &nbs
p; -Matt Drall
========================
===================<BR><BR><BR><BR
> <BR> <BR> <BR></P></html>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Carb retaining springs |
I don't have any experience with the 912 but did a similar "spring"
hookup on the 582. Going to the hardware store didn't give me exactly
what I wanted so I added a small aluminum turnbuckle in series with the
springs. This gives you adjustment to the desired spring tension. You
might also use a short length of chain in series with the spring and
adjust the tension by selecting a different hole in the chain as an
attachment point. I used this same procedure on my muffler springs
(great). However, I might add a serious caution.....LOCKWIRE those
small aluminum turnbuckles or they will spin off with engine vibration.
This happened to me in less than one minute of engine operation.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: Rexster
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Carb retaining springs
Lyle,
I don't know of any requirements for these springs other than they
help keep the carb in to the manifold socket. I used to be lucky to get
100 hours from a set of carb sockets. The $6 Ski Doo sockets I have on
mine now are over 300 hours and look fine. The difference is that I went
to a hardware store and added two more springs to the two already on the
Rotax. Top, bottom, right and left for me. Stare at your needs under the
cowl so you know what you're looking for. Go to the hardware store and
look at the huge spring selection. Buy a little variety of what looks
good and head back to the plane with a smile. If you just have to have
the exact spring that came with the engine, you can always call Rotax.
Leading Edge Airfoils 800 532 3462
Lockwood Aviation (I don't have their number handy)
Michigan Rex
-- Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com>
Does anyone have handy the Skystar part number for the small springs
that help hold the carburetors on the sockets on the 912UL. I don't
have my pubs immediately available and I'l like to order replacements
from Sport Plane, LLC. Better yet, has anyone found a less costly
substitute?
Lyle Persels
<========================
sp; - The Kitfox-List;the many List utilities such as the
=========================
=======================sp;
- NEW MATRONICS LInbsp;
&========================
Thank you for your generous&nbp; -Matt
Drall=======================
===================
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Rick, did you smooth out the intake/exhaust ports for
better flow before coating?
No I did not. If I had the non-turbo maybe, but without a flow bench it
would be a magic act. Flow through the heads with the turbo is not a
major problem at the RPMs we run. The coating is for thermal protection
of the aluminum.
Rick
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Original stock valve. Not sure if one can see hardening or fatigue
caused by temperature cycling. There is a fancy name for it, but I must
be getting old.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 1:28 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Yes Rick, I agree re the great benefit from exchange of good ideas and
more
so red flags. The valve that let go (on your engine?), was it an
original or
replacement? I reused the original valves in my engine as they looked
perfect and it was a low mileage engine. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Just what I believe to be true. Stock valves are just that stock steel
valves. Our application subjects them to IMHO abnormal stresses. I have
by no means done any subjective test nor do I have reams of research to
document anything. Just based on my observations, personal, observed and
read. What's great about this media we exchange ideas, thoughts and
experiences in is the collective wisdom or at least red flags that are
raised. If I built another engine these things I would do.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
This is new news to me Rick, you saying that the stock soob turbo valves
not good? I have the stock (original) valve gear still fitted?? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Well we can not count all the stock exhaust cross over failures until we
got the new SS set. I think I had just the right number of fingers
though. 350 hours seems about right, and it was an exhaust valve that
snapped just below the scallop number 3 cylinder. That was stock
components. SS with bronze guides is the only way to go for the boost
folks. If I were doing another set of heads I would coat at least coat
the exhaust runners and ports with Swain coating. The beat would be a
complete coating of the combustion chamber in the heads and all exposed
aluminum. I did the SS valve crowns as well.
OK misread the whole dang post.
Compression was good from the get go and only improved marginally over
time. I don't remember the numbers but I want to say 140 all around. No
real blow by on new engine. I wish I had kept better notes. I also had
the block, rings and pistons cryogenic treated so who knows. I was
really looking forward to a 3000hr TBO :)
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
About when did your Soob break in? What were the
symptoms? Temps, blowby oil accumulated, power?
I heard that about 300 hrs is the magic number. Since
yours was a superior engine, I understand results may
vary. :-)
Kurt S.
--- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
>Thanks. Yes some folks don't realize that the engine
>actually breathes
>quite a lot of air through breather vents. I drained
>them about ever
>other oil change or 50 hours. The more blow- by you
>have the more that is accumulated in the separators.
__________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
_________________________________________________________________
Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming
Message 19
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Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Did the engine loose power/miss before it went? I had a valve head pop on a
1600 VW (Beetle) and every time I checked the valve clearance it was tight.
Silly me didn't twig!! Perhaps with hyd lifters it wouldn't show?? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Original stock valve. Not sure if one can see hardening or fatigue
caused by temperature cycling. There is a fancy name for it, but I must
be getting old.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 1:28 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Yes Rick, I agree re the great benefit from exchange of good ideas and
more
so red flags. The valve that let go (on your engine?), was it an
original or
replacement? I reused the original valves in my engine as they looked
perfect and it was a low mileage engine. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Just what I believe to be true. Stock valves are just that stock steel
valves. Our application subjects them to IMHO abnormal stresses. I have
by no means done any subjective test nor do I have reams of research to
document anything. Just based on my observations, personal, observed and
read. What's great about this media we exchange ideas, thoughts and
experiences in is the collective wisdom or at least red flags that are
raised. If I built another engine these things I would do.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
This is new news to me Rick, you saying that the stock soob turbo valves
not good? I have the stock (original) valve gear still fitted?? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Well we can not count all the stock exhaust cross over failures until we
got the new SS set. I think I had just the right number of fingers
though. 350 hours seems about right, and it was an exhaust valve that
snapped just below the scallop number 3 cylinder. That was stock
components. SS with bronze guides is the only way to go for the boost
folks. If I were doing another set of heads I would coat at least coat
the exhaust runners and ports with Swain coating. The beat would be a
complete coating of the combustion chamber in the heads and all exposed
aluminum. I did the SS valve crowns as well.
OK misread the whole dang post.
Compression was good from the get go and only improved marginally over
time. I don't remember the numbers but I want to say 140 all around. No
real blow by on new engine. I wish I had kept better notes. I also had
the block, rings and pistons cryogenic treated so who knows. I was
really looking forward to a 3000hr TBO :)
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
About when did your Soob break in? What were the
symptoms? Temps, blowby oil accumulated, power?
I heard that about 300 hrs is the magic number. Since
yours was a superior engine, I understand results may
vary. :-)
Kurt S.
--- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
>Thanks. Yes some folks don't realize that the engine
>actually breathes
>quite a lot of air through breather vents. I drained
>them about ever
>other oil change or 50 hours. The more blow- by you
>have the more that is accumulated in the separators.
__________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
_________________________________________________________________
Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming
_________________________________________________________________
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
I was fortunate in the fact that the head of the valve and seat shut the
turbo down. Had it not I think the engine might have been torn from the
mounts. No, just a LOUD rump sound and mysterious puff of smoke followed
by silence, a slide slip, flair, and roll out on the last taxi way. It
was kind of cool, expensive , but hey you cant buy rides like that.
:)And then the opportunity to build something else as an added bonus.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Did the engine loose power/miss before it went? I had a valve head pop
on a
1600 VW (Beetle) and every time I checked the valve clearance it was
tight.
Silly me didn't twig!! Perhaps with hyd lifters it wouldn't show?? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Original stock valve. Not sure if one can see hardening or fatigue
caused by temperature cycling. There is a fancy name for it, but I must
be getting old.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 1:28 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Yes Rick, I agree re the great benefit from exchange of good ideas and
more so red flags. The valve that let go (on your engine?), was it an
original or replacement? I reused the original valves in my engine as
they looked perfect and it was a low mileage engine. John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Just what I believe to be true. Stock valves are just that stock
steel valves. Our application subjects them to IMHO abnormal stresses. I
have by no means done any subjective test nor do I have reams of
research to document anything. Just based on my observations, personal,
observed and read. What's great about this media we exchange ideas,
thoughts and experiences in is the collective wisdom or at least red
flags that are raised. If I built another engine these things I would
do.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
--> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
This is new news to me Rick, you saying that the stock soob turbo valves
not good? I have the stock (original) valve gear still fitted?? John
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Well we can not count all the stock exhaust cross over failures until we
got the new SS set. I think I had just the right number of fingers
though. 350 hours seems about right, and it was an exhaust valve that
snapped just below the scallop number 3 cylinder. That was stock
components. SS with bronze guides is the only way to go for the boost
folks. If I were doing another set of heads I would coat at least coat
the exhaust runners and ports with Swain coating. The beat would be a
complete coating of the combustion chamber in the heads and all exposed
aluminum. I did the SS valve crowns as well.
OK misread the whole dang post.
Compression was good from the get go and only improved marginally over
time. I don't remember the numbers but I want to say 140 all around. No
real blow by on new engine. I wish I had kept better notes. I also had
the block, rings and pistons cryogenic treated so who knows. I was
really looking forward to a 3000hr TBO :)
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Specs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
--> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
About when did your Soob break in? What were the
symptoms? Temps, blowby oil accumulated, power?
I heard that about 300 hrs is the magic number. Since
yours was a superior engine, I understand results may
vary. :-)
Kurt S.
--- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
>Thanks. Yes some folks don't realize that the engine
>actually breathes
>quite a lot of air through breather vents. I drained
>them about ever
>other oil change or 50 hours. The more blow- by you
>have the more that is accumulated in the separators.
__________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
_________________________________________________________________
Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming
_________________________________________________________________
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
Eric:
No, my hangar has been empty but for my plane for the last few weeks as
my hangar-mate's Spam Can is up at Kenosha getting an annual. And paint
on the repaired lower cowl that was damaged when he hit a goose. I'll
bet that woke him up!
Since I always have my wings folded in the hangar it is difficult to
conceive of any way that the longeron could have been bent in my
absense, as the folded wings pretty much cover that area of the
fuselage, and anything falling, or any ham-handed handling of the plane,
would have shown up as damage to the wings.
I did have an off-airport landing in a freshly planted cornfield 2 weeks
back (a week before the wrinkles arrived) but that landing was
kiss-my-hand soft -are we down yet?- compared to any landing I have
ever done on pavement.
Flying too close to the sun, Icarus, and no wax to melt but fabric to
soften. That must be it.
Robert
Hi Robert.
Are you sharing a hangar?
The bend is in the top longeron tube opposite side to the ground
moving handle. Could someone have tried to shove the plane with the
chocks in place or the tail wheel locked and did not know what he was
doing?
Could something heavy have fallen on the side of the plane, any traces
of surface paint damage in the area?
Have you had a real heavy tail wheel first three point landing
recently?
I believe the fabric can expand if you place too much heat, but that
is noticed at the exact moment of shrinking, incorrectly. And the direct
sun could not effect it, even though the color is very dark because it
would not reach the temperature of expansion.
You must have been flying too close to the sun!
Eric.
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Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks,
I have rebuilt engines, but never modified them for
racing, etc, so I am no expert at it. Well, once I
did soup up a VW exhaust, ignition, and intake filter
to get another 3 hp or so out of it..... Still lost 5
knots when I went to high beam. ;-)
kurt S.
--- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
> Rick, did you smooth out the intake/exhaust ports
> for better flow before coating?
.....................
>
> No I did not. If I had the non-turbo maybe, but
> without a flow bench it
> would be a magic act. Flow through the heads with
> the turbo is not a
> major problem at the RPMs we run. The coating is for
> thermal protection
> of the aluminum.
>
> Rick
__________________________________________________
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
OK Robert,
Maybe one of our engineers can address this better.
I'm getting old.... :-(
I think you should make sure that the tubes are not
bent more than half their diameter out of being
straight between welds. That is my rule of thumb
without the math behind it. Straight is much better.
1/2 is the limit and not even nice.
Called "long column bending", a tube really gets weak
in compression if it is not straight. An upper tube
is usually in tension in flight, but compression on
the ground. That means it bent more than normal on
the ground because tension in flight would straighten
it. Only ground contact, inverted flight, or force
bends a top tube. (I think. Maybe a side load on the
tail might do it too.)
Folding your wings contributes to this because it
moves more weight to the tailwheel.
If your fabric tension is too high and a tube is bent
to begin with, it takes less compression to bend it
more.
Very hard to bend a straight tube, but it weakens
rapidly if bent past a certain point. If I remember,
1/2 the diameter is about it before it bends real
easily. Maybe less.
I added 2 cross braces to my Fox in the bay just
behind the baggage area because I didn't like the
bending there after covering. I kept mine under 1/8th
inch off straight. Just a precaution for me. You
might look at doing the same. The braces have to be
mounted so that they will not come lose and poke the
fabric when stressed, so take care for that.
Any engineer comments would be appreciated.
Kurt S.
--- W & R Beck <trevorkebb@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Kurt:
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> No, the wrinkles are in the larger bay just in front
> of the handle, a bit to
> the right side longeron, which is quite a long,
> unsupported tube. The right
> longeron shows a tad more bend than the left, both
> of them having had very
> slight bends after fabric shrinkage, since the plane
> was built. It is
> probably that right side top longeron tube. The
> question is, why does it suddenly have a bend in it?
>
> I spent another few hours the other day checking
> every weld I could get to
> with either my hand, a push-stick, or a mirror and
> light, all the way from
> the tailwheel to the primary cockpit structure, and
> could come up with no squawks.
>
> So today I went flying for 2 hours. No noticeable
> difference in trim.
>
> It's a mystery.
>
> Robert Beck
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Body |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks Graeme,
That helps to know.
I want to continue using car (boat gas on floats) if I
can too. I wish they would bite the bullet and
convert the TBI's to handle additives without damage
for all of us.
Kurt S.
--- QSS <msm@byterocky.net> wrote:
> Hi Kurt, I appreciate the reply. I have heard of
> people using mogas with the
> TBI but wasn't sure about any issues with its use. I
> really would like to
> continue using it but not at the expense of any
> damage it might cause.
> ...............
> Regards
> Graeme
__________________________________________________
Message 27
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Don't know if it helps, but it can't hurt to have a
clutch allow the prop to freewheel, if the engine
seizes. Don't need the entra prop momentum helping
rip things apart. Probably only a benefit at low rpm,
but we have one on the NSI package.
My only :-) with the least modified, lowest powered
turbo Soob on the list.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
Luuuuuky Rick!!!
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