Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:45 AM - Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend (Dave)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend (kitfoxjunky)
3. 07:11 AM - Re: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend (Dave)
4. 08:28 AM - Re: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend (Algate)
5. 08:28 AM - Re: EAA (Joel Mapes)
6. 08:53 AM - Re: Jabiru gas WAS: New Web Site (Michael Gibbs)
7. 09:17 AM - fabric finishing (Dave G.)
8. 09:55 AM - Re: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend (Dave)
9. 10:50 AM - Re: fabric finishing (Fox5flyer)
10. 11:31 AM - AVGAS on its way out WAS: Jabiru gas (Michel Verheughe)
11. 01:29 PM - Re: fabric finishing (Larry Huntley)
12. 03:25 PM - Epoxy (Don Smythe)
13. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: Cracked engine mount (Paul)
14. 03:58 PM - Re: Epoxy (Randy Daughenbaugh)
15. 05:28 PM - Re: fabric finishing (Lowell Fitt)
16. 06:04 PM - Re: fabric finishing (Larry Huntley)
17. 06:23 PM - Re: Epoxy (Guy Buchanan)
18. 06:36 PM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (W & R Beck)
19. 10:36 PM - Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question? (darinh)
Message 1
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Subject: | Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend |
Any Kitfoxers in Ontario?
New Hamburg is about 40 miles NE of London CYXU and 10 or 15 miles
West of CYKF Kitchner/ Waterloo.
I am planning to fly a Kitfox there.
Dave
June 10 New Hamburg Ontario
Annual Kitchener Waterloo RAA fly-in at John Kunz's farm just North of
New Hamburg in Philipsburg. John's farm is on the NW corner of Erb St
and Nafziger Rd . All welcome. 1:00pm lunch barbecue is $6.00. All
circuits including ultralights at 1000 ft AGL as in the AIP. Field
elevation is 1200 ft. contact clare@snyder.on.ca
June 10-11 Niagara Falls Ontario
The Russell Group annual warbird airshow with ww1 and ww2 warbirds in
flight.
http://therussellgroupairshow.com/calendar.php
June 11 Ottawa
Fly-in at Kars/Rideau Valley Air Park, Ontario on June 11th 10:00 a.m.
until around 3:30.
Hosted by Ottawa/Rideau RAA Chapter 4928
Location: N45 06 W75 38 Declination: 14 degrees W Time: utc-4
Runway: 08/26 Grass elevation 286' Glider activity in area
Call in frequency 123.4 MHz
BBQ:- burgers etc.
Contact Harvey Rule at 613-739-5562 or email harvey.rule@bell.ca
June 12 Brampton Airport
Monday night Barbeques begin for the 10th season. Your choice of beef,
turkey or veggie burgers, sausages or hot dogs; all the trimmings.
Coffee, and other refreshments available. An established tradition that
keeps growing. All are welcome. RAA-TR hangar at the north end of
Brampton airport (NC3). Earl Trimble 905-787-8524, or Bill Tee
416-742-8939 steec551@rogers.com
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend |
I will be there too.
Gary Walsh
KF IV Anphib 912S
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend |
Gary,
Hope to see you there.
Do you have Amphibs on yet?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: kitfoxjunky
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend
I will be there too.
Gary Walsh
KF IV Anphib 912S
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 4
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Subject: | Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend |
No amphibs as yet and unfortunately I can't make it this weekend as my
family is throwing me a surprise birthday party - you know what they say -
Timing is everything!!!!
Regards
Gary
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend
Gary,
Hope to see you there.
Do you have Amphibs on yet?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: kitfoxjunky <mailto:kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend
I will be there too.
Gary Walsh
KF IV Anphib 912S
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
Dear Duane, Lowell;
Potential rockets to the moon ARE experimental aviation. While I am
stretching my budget building a Kitfox I am still thrilled to read of the
successes of SpaceShip One and Glasair cross-country speed records. The
factory built planes outnumber the homebuilts by a substantial margin at
Oshkosh every year and I suppose the bean counters at EAA recognize that
most EAAers fly factory built birds and consequently write articles along
those lines. Personally I would rather read an article in Sport Aviation
about ANY experimental aircraft over a factory built as I know the factory
plane are covered in AOPA Pilot, which I also receive.
Joel
Model 5 912 GTA CS prop Aerocomp amphibs
President, EAA Chapter 406
_________________________________________________________________
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Jabiru gas WAS: New Web Site |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Michel sez:
>a hangar tale around here says that AVGAS is on its way out.
>Apparently there is too little of it sold to justify its production.
>The rumour says they are looking at a new type of gas that will be
>used by aircraft and cars.
There has been talk about that for well over 10 years now, Michel. I
wonder if we are getting any closer to that day...
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 7
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Subject: | fabric finishing |
I will have to put new fabric on my wings after I replace the spar. (No
real hurry because it's never ever going to stop raining here in Nova
Scotia)
I've been looking at all the varieties. The safe bet is Stits. But
standing in the wings are Loehle and Aircraft Finishing systems. Likely
a couple of others. The appeal of AFS is that it is all waterbased, much
less toxic. Does anyone have any experience with the others?
Barring any significant input to the contrary, I'll play it safe and use
the Stits system.
I also need ideas for breaking the bonds between the ribs and the rear
spar without damaging the ribs.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend |
Gary, HAPPY BIRTHDY !!
You older again huh :-)
Enjoy and I sure we will cross paths soon.
Are you looking to buy Amphibs for your Kitfox?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Algate
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend
No amphibs as yet and unfortunately I can't make it this weekend as my
family is throwing me a surprise birthday party - you know what they say
- Timing is everything!!!!
Regards
Gary
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 10:08 AM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend
Gary,
Hope to see you there.
Do you have Amphibs on yet?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: kitfoxjunky
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ontario RAA Flyins this weekend
I will be there too.
Gary Walsh
KF IV Anphib 912S
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: fabric finishing |
It's tough to beat Poly Fiber, but opinions vary.
As for the glue, just use a heat gun--carefully.
Deke
f----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 12:15 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: fabric finishing
I will have to put new fabric on my wings after I replace the spar.
(No real hurry because it's never ever going to stop raining here in
Nova Scotia)
I've been looking at all the varieties. The safe bet is Stits. But
standing in the wings are Loehle and Aircraft Finishing systems. Likely
a couple of others. The appeal of AFS is that it is all waterbased, much
less toxic. Does anyone have any experience with the others?
Barring any significant input to the contrary, I'll play it safe and
use the Stits system.
I also need ideas for breaking the bonds between the ribs and the rear
spar without damaging the ribs.
Message 10
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Subject: | AVGAS on its way out WAS: Jabiru gas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Jun 9, 2006, at 5:51 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
> There has been talk about that for well over 10 years now, Michel.
Ten years, Mike? It figures! Usually Norway considers late what has
been done by other nations, and mostly: a few years after the Swedes.
:-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: fabric finishing |
Dave,
I have used dope, Stitts, and AFS. I am finishing up a Citabria for
someone else because I told him 2-3 yrs ago I would. NEVER again. I
never got so sick of spraying. Must be 20 coats.
I like Stitts quite well. The PolyTone is prone to stain from insect
droppings or something. My Cub Yellow developed green spots. Newport
Blue on a Funk developed dark blue spots. I think it is from Carpenter
Bees but am not sure. I resprayed it with Aerothane a few years
later,but that is another expense and I didn't really want the "wet"
look.
I have been very happy with AFS though I have only used it for one set
of wings and some tailfeathers. You need a good gun. Devilbiss
Finishline 3 works well for me. It sprays a bit differently but you can
learn and Dan Stewart http://www.stewartshangar21.aero/ will guide you
by phone if need be. He is extremely helpful. You are right about
toxicity with AFS. The thinner is plain water so you don't have to ship
it. there is no odor and no Hazmat. Another plus: A set of Tripacer
wings took 4 gallons (USA) of material. Same job,Randolph( now part of
PolyFiber) Stated that for Ceconite/dope I would need 35-37 gallons.
Depending on the material used on your wing,it may be easy to remove
the fabric. I recently had to "dismantle" a wingtip cover on a Champ. I
cut some strips of a bath towel about 1" wide,laid them on the tapes
around the tip and put MEK on the strips. In just a few minutes they
peeled right off. Use latex gloves and don't get MEK on you if you value
your liver. Just be careful.
We flew up through Eastport ,Maine and Moncton to a B&B at Cable Head
on PEI a couple of years ago ,but that is as close as we have ever been
to Nova Scotia. Need to get there one day.
Hope this helps, Larry Huntley
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 12:15 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: fabric finishing
I will have to put new fabric on my wings after I replace the spar.
(No real hurry because it's never ever going to stop raining here in
Nova Scotia)
I've been looking at all the varieties. The safe bet is Stits. But
standing in the wings are Loehle and Aircraft Finishing systems. Likely
a couple of others. The appeal of AFS is that it is all waterbased, much
less toxic. Does anyone have any experience with the others?
Barring any significant input to the contrary, I'll play it safe and
use the Stits system.
I also need ideas for breaking the bonds between the ribs and the rear
spar without damaging the ribs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
6/8/2006
Message 12
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To All,
I've had some discussion with the West Systems Epoxy people and this is
what they had to say. Note that I used my old Ford tractor as having the
bad tank (I've learned not to mention the word "airplane") I'm not sure
about his last statement that "ALL" epoxies are vulnerable to Ethanol???
I mean, GAS STATIONS have epoxy tanks.
FROM ME TO WEST:
Several years ago I asked about a fabricated fiberglass gasoline tank
that was leaking on my Ford tractor. We discussed cutting open the tank
and coating the insides with West Systems epoxy resin. You informed me
that it would probably work just fine and, it did. No leaks for several
years now. New problem,,,in a very short time all the local gasoline is
going to 10% Ethanol and I was told by a friend that the Ethanol was
going to eat the West Systems epoxy off the insides of the tanks. Does
this sound like a true statement to you? If so, I guess it's time to get
a new tank.
Thanks,
Don Smythe
FROM WEST:
It is true that ethanol will with time dissolve the cured epoxy -
actually soften it. So its safe to say that the epoxy answer to
gasoline tank repair may be over. We are looking into ethanol resistant
coating that could be applied over the epoxy repair. This could solve
the situation.
FOLLOW UP QUESTION FROM ME TO WEST:
Mr. Watson,
Thank you for the quick response. I see in several places on the
web and in your comment that Ethanol will dissolve or soften Epoxy. Is
this simply West Sytems Epoxy or all Epoxies? Are there any Epoxies
that are
safe against Ethanol?
Thanks again
Don Smythe
FINAL RESPONSE FROM WEST:
As far was we can tell it is all epoxies.
Gougeon Brothers, Inc.
100 Patterson Ave., PO Box 908
Bay City, MI 48707-0908 U.S.A.
tel: 866-937-8797
tel: 989-684-7286
fax: 989-684-1287
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: RE: Cracked engine mount |
Sorry if you get a chance please try again. Working to much I didn't
check mail for a day or so.
Thahks Paul N102DG
----- Original Message -----
From: PWilson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 8:43 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Cracked engine mount
"Paul N102DG " <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
Your mail box is full so I cannot send you the info you requested
The message I received was:
This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
The user(s) account is temporarily over quota.
Regards, Paul W
Message 14
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Don,
You are doing a great job tacking down the truth here.
Just one thing that may be leading us astray. Gas stations may have
fiberglass tanks that are layed up with polyester resins rather than epoxy.
This may be the explanation for the apparent discrepancy.
Randy - learning too..
.
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:21 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Epoxy
To All,
I've had some discussion with the West Systems Epoxy people and this is what
they had to say. Note that I used my old Ford tractor as having the bad tank
(I've learned not to mention the word "airplane") I'm not sure about his
last statement that "ALL" epoxies are vulnerable to Ethanol??? I mean, GAS
STATIONS have epoxy tanks.
FROM ME TO WEST:
Several years ago I asked about a fabricated fiberglass gasoline tank that
was leaking on my Ford tractor. We discussed cutting open the tank and
coating the insides with West Systems epoxy resin. You informed me that it
would probably work just fine and, it did. No leaks for several years now.
New problem,,,in a very short time all the local gasoline is going to 10%
Ethanol and I was told by a friend that the Ethanol was going to eat the
West Systems epoxy off the insides of the tanks. Does this sound like a true
statement to you? If so, I guess it's time to get a new tank.
Thanks,
Don Smythe
FROM WEST:
It is true that ethanol will with time dissolve the cured epoxy - actually
soften it. So its safe to say that the epoxy answer to gasoline tank repair
may be over. We are looking into ethanol resistant coating that could be
applied over the epoxy repair. This could solve the situation.
FOLLOW UP QUESTION FROM ME TO WEST:
Mr. Watson,
Thank you for the quick response. I see in several places on the web
and in your comment that Ethanol will dissolve or soften Epoxy. Is this
simply West Sytems Epoxy or all Epoxies? Are there any Epoxies that are
safe against Ethanol?
Thanks again
Don Smythe
FINAL RESPONSE FROM WEST:
As far was we can tell it is all epoxies.
Gougeon Brothers, Inc.
100 Patterson Ave., PO Box 908
Bay City, MI 48707-0908 U.S.A.
tel: 866-937-8797
tel: 989-684-7286
fax: 989-684-1287
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: fabric finishing |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Dave,
Unless you are comfortable using new technology in a very labor intensive
phase of building, I would strongly suggest staying with Pol;yfiber (Stits).
There was a water based system promoted at one time by one of the Builder
Assist shops that a couple of guys used. Then the stuff disappeared from the
scene. The new stuff may be OK, but the proof is not in the way it looks
out of the can, but how will it hold up and look after five or ten years.
Not a happy thought thinking of a recover right in the middle of all the
flying fun.
I absolutely loved the building, but can't imagine having my Model IV out of
service for a recover or any other procedure for that matter. Flying is
just too much fun.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: fabric finishing
I will have to put new fabric on my wings after I replace the spar. (No real
hurry because it's never ever going to stop raining here in Nova Scotia)
I've been looking at all the varieties. The safe bet is Stits. But standing
in the wings are Loehle and Aircraft Finishing systems. Likely a couple of
others. The appeal of AFS is that it is all waterbased, much less toxic.
Does anyone have any experience with the others?
Barring any significant input to the contrary, I'll play it safe and use the
Stits system.
I also need ideas for breaking the bonds between the ribs and the rear spar
without damaging the ribs.
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: fabric finishing |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Lowell,
That may have been Blue River (Ceconite 7600). I know folks had trouble
with it ,but I did it "by the book" and was happy with it. I used it on my
Tripacer 14 yrs ago and put Imron on top. I got hit by hail a few years ago
and that ringwormed the Imron. Other than that my cover is in perfect
shape,matter of fact I had a h--l of a time getting the cover off. I would
say the cement is the best out there by far.
The developer,Bob Near ,has gone west and his company went out of business
and was bought out by Aircraft Finishing Systems. They have improved the
cement in making it easier to use and have changed the finish coat
completely. It is now ALL waterborne. I have seen planes 6-8 yrs after being
covered with it and they look a lot better than my Polytone Kitfox or my
Funk. of about the same vintage.
All that said,PolyFiber is an easy to use product and that would certainly
be my next choice,but I will use AFS from now on.
One Man's Opinion. Larry Huntley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fabric finishing
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Unless you are comfortable using new technology in a very labor intensive
> phase of building, I would strongly suggest staying with Pol;yfiber
> (Stits). There was a water based system promoted at one time by one of the
> Builder Assist shops that a couple of guys used. Then the stuff
> disappeared from the scene. The new stuff may be OK, but the proof is not
> in the way it looks out of the can, but how will it hold up and look after
> five or ten years. Not a happy thought thinking of a recover right in the
> middle of all the flying fun.
>
> I absolutely loved the building, but can't imagine having my Model IV out
> of service for a recover or any other procedure for that matter. Flying
> is just too much fun.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:15 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: fabric finishing
>
>
> I will have to put new fabric on my wings after I replace the spar. (No
> real hurry because it's never ever going to stop raining here in Nova
> Scotia)
>
> I've been looking at all the varieties. The safe bet is Stits. But
> standing in the wings are Loehle and Aircraft Finishing systems. Likely a
> couple of others. The appeal of AFS is that it is all waterbased, much
> less toxic. Does anyone have any experience with the others?
>
> Barring any significant input to the contrary, I'll play it safe and use
> the Stits system.
>
> I also need ideas for breaking the bonds between the ribs and the rear
> spar without damaging the ribs.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 03:21 PM 6/9/2006, you wrote:
>...to Ethanol??? I mean, GAS STATIONS have epoxy tanks.
Actually most chemical tanks, including gas station tanks are made from
fiberglass / polyester or vinylester resin. I gave a quick shot at tracking
down a resin formulation but didn't get anywhere. I will try some of my
industry contacts to see if I can get a source.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "W & R Beck" <trevorkebb@earthlink.net>
Larry, Ted, and Kurt:
No, it hasn't been towed, and the wood stringers are fine all around.
Kurt, I appreciate your insights on tubing. I suppose at some point I will
cut a hole in the bottom fuselage fabric (Horrors! It's virgin!) and put in
a couple lightweight crossbraces in to take the bit of sag out of those top
longerons.
Thanks again, folks.
Robert
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
>
> Robert,
> Was it towed over rough terrain(or road)? Larry
This may be a bit of a stretch, but, have you looked at the two wooden
stringers along the side of the fuselage that runs from just back of the
doors to near the horizontal stabilizer. Perhaps one of these has warped or
broken causing the fabric ripple.
Just a thought
Ted
Edmonton, Ab
Message 19
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Subject: | Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
I am installing the horizontal stab fiberglass trailing edge and have a question
on the fit. My question is this: Does the fiberglass fairing sit up against
the square trailing edge tubing? If so, the notches on the ribs will need to
be extended forward approximately 1/2" to 3/4" to allow for a flush transition
from fairing to rib. Is this how it is supposed to be done, or does the fairing
stand off the metal T.E. tube? My guess is that the fairing sits up against
the tube and the ribs need a bit of sanding to allow a flush transition as
it does not look like there will be room for the rudder L.E. fairing if is stands
off a bit. I hope this is not confusing but those guys building a 7 or others
that have an airfoil tail should know exactly what I am talking about.
Thanks,
Darin
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