Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:37 AM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (John Anderson)
2. 12:45 AM - Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles (John Anderson)
3. 01:13 AM - Re: fabric finishing (Michael Gibbs)
4. 02:09 AM - Re: Epoxy (Michel Verheughe)
5. 04:41 AM - Re: Re: fabric finishing (Larry Huntley)
6. 04:42 AM - Re: Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question? (Roger McConnell)
7. 05:57 AM - [Off-Topic] Presidential blunder. WAS: fabric finishing (Michel Verheughe)
8. 07:11 AM - Re: Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question? (darinh)
9. 12:02 PM - Re: fabric finishing (Fred Shiple)
10. 01:20 PM - VW Power-plant (Gary Olson)
11. 01:37 PM - Re: fabric finishing/ spar renewal. (Dave G.)
12. 01:59 PM - Re: VW Power-plant (ron schick)
13. 02:39 PM - Re: Epoxy (Sid Hausding)
14. 03:29 PM - Re: Epoxy (Michel Verheughe)
15. 06:05 PM - Re: Epoxy (Sid Hausding)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Fabric Wrinkles |
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: fabric finishing |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Larry sez:
>I have used dope...
That's a brave admission, Larry. I'm just not sure why you chose to
bare your soul to us... :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Do not archive.
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Jun 10, 2006, at 12:21 AM, Don Smythe wrote:
> It is true that ethanol will with time dissolve the cured epoxy -
> actually soften it. So its safe to say that the epoxy answer to
> gasoline tank repair may be over. We are looking into ethanol
> resistant coating that could be applied over the epoxy repair. This
> could solve the situation.
This is almost, word by word, what I got from West System, Don. I think
it was also Mr. Watson who answered me.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: fabric finishing |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
But I didn't inhale! (much) ;o) Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 4:11 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: fabric finishing
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> Larry sez:
>
>>I have used dope...
>
> That's a brave admission, Larry. I'm just not sure why you chose to
> bare your soul to us... :-)
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
> Do not archive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Darin,
I know exactly what you're talking about. To answer your question,
yes that fairing is up against the square post from top to bottom and yes
you will have to trim the trailing ends on each side of your rib pieces in
order to get a smooth transition from one to the other. I used a Dremel for
that job. I don't think you can build this plane without the use of a Dremel
or other similar tool......good luck
Roger Mac
N619RM S7/912s
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 12:32 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
I am installing the horizontal stab fiberglass trailing edge and have a
question on the fit. My question is this: Does the fiberglass fairing sit
up against the square trailing edge tubing? If so, the notches on the ribs
will need to be extended forward approximately 1/2" to 3/4" to allow for a
flush transition from fairing to rib. Is this how it is supposed to be
done, or does the fairing stand off the metal T.E. tube? My guess is that
the fairing sits up against the tube and the ribs need a bit of sanding to
allow a flush transition as it does not look like there will be room for the
rudder L.E. fairing if is stands off a bit. I hope this is not confusing
but those guys building a 7 or others that have an airfoil tail should know
exactly what I am talking about. Thanks,
Darin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=39753#39753
Message 7
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| Subject: | [Off-Topic] Presidential blunder. WAS: fabric finishing |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Jun 10, 2006, at 1:38 PM, Larry Huntley wrote:
> But I didn't inhale! (much) ;o) Larry
What you meant to say, Larry, is: "I didn't had sex with that joint!"
:-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Thanks Roger,
You have confirmed my suspicions and I completely agree with you on the dremel...invaluable!
Thanks,
Darin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=39789#39789
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: fabric finishing |
I'm getting into this late as we're traveling and internet is only intermittently
available.
I've had a plane finished for two years with AFS. It was initially difficult
to apply as it runs worse than anything else I've used, but the technique is learnable,
just takes a little time and some sand-paper.
I've been VERY dissatisfied with the abrasion resistance of the finish. It scratches
with almost any contact. After all the work needed to get a nice finish,
I'd like to see it look good for longer than just a few years.
Fred
I've been looking at all the varieties. The safe bet is Stits. But standing in
the wings are Loehle and Aircraft Finishing systems. Likely a couple of others.
The appeal of AFS is that it is all waterbased, much less toxic. Does anyone
have any experience with the others?
Message 10
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Gentlemen,
When I bought my series 7 kit, the original owner planned on installing the O-200.
So the cowlings/FWF kit was specifically for that engine. Intending on flying
this in the Sport class, I felt that in order to get under the gross weight
limits, I needed to find a place to lighten the load. The most obvious place
to start would be the power-plant. After evaluating cost, weight ease of maintenance,
etc. I decided on the VW 2276 w/reduction drive. Now that the engine
has been mounted, I discovered that it is approx. 4-4 1/2" shorter than the
O-200. The problem is this, with the engine being lighter (approx. 35#), and the
engine not cantilevered out as far, how much is this going to affect my W/B.
I realize that I can offset the W/B difference with moving the battery under
the cowling, etc.. What would be a logical solution (extend the mount, prop extension,
re-work the cowling to fit the shorter engine, try a different cowling,
???). Any thoughts? I am waiting to hear back
from John McBean on this as well. Thanks.
Gary Olson
Oshkosh
__________________________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: fabric finishing/ spar renewal. |
Thanks Fred, and the others who emailed off list. The only one I have
not heard about is Loehle. Looks like I'll use the Stits when I get to
that stage.
Disassembly has started, I used a soldering gun/hot knife to remove all
the epoxy from one rib. I may cut the old spar off in sections. This is
going to take a while. It looks like the original spar ends about midway
between ribs 7 and 8. It appears to have an I-beam insert extending
beyond the original one.
I'll take some pictures.
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Shiple
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fabric finishing
I'm getting into this late as we're traveling and internet is only
intermittently available.
I've had a plane finished for two years with AFS. It was initially
difficult to apply as it runs worse than anything else I've used, but
the technique is learnable, just takes a little time and some
sand-paper.
I've been VERY dissatisfied with the abrasion resistance of the
finish. It scratches with almost any contact. After all the work needed
to get a nice finish, I'd like to see it look good for longer than just
a few years.
Fred
I've been looking at all the varieties. The safe bet is Stits. But
standing in the wings are Loehle and Aircraft Finishing systems. Likely
a couple of others. The appeal of AFS is that it is all waterbased, much
less toxic. Does anyone have any experience with the others?
Message 12
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Hi Gary My worst problem was fabricating a cowling to fit. If the
leading edge of your wing is the datum and the engine is at a specific arm
you can do the math for a lighter engine cg. You could at that point do
another weight and balance for moving the arm of the engine. I took the
simple approach and mounted my VW redrive close to the firewall, battery
behind turtledeck and weighed it. Came in around 13" cg and 660 LB.
Where exactly is your thrust line in relation to floorboard and who made the
mount? Ron NB Or N541KF MIV Speedster Waiting for AW
>From: Gary Olson <ofd725@yahoo.com>
>To: Builder Hotline <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: VW Power-plant
>Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 13:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Gentlemen,
>
> When I bought my series 7 kit, the original owner planned on installing
>the O-200. So the cowlings/FWF kit was specifically for that engine.
>Intending on flying this in the Sport class, I felt that in order to get
>under the gross weight limits, I needed to find a place to lighten the
>load. The most obvious place to start would be the power-plant. After
>evaluating cost, weight ease of maintenance, etc. I decided on the VW 2276
>w/reduction drive. Now that the engine has been mounted, I discovered that
>it is approx. 4-4 1/2" shorter than the O-200. The problem is this, with
>the engine being lighter (approx. 35#), and the engine not cantilevered out
>as far, how much is this going to affect my W/B. I realize that I can
>offset the W/B difference with moving the battery under the cowling, etc..
>What would be a logical solution (extend the mount, prop extension, re-work
>the cowling to fit the shorter engine, try a different cowling, ???). Any
>thoughts? I am waiting to hear back
> from John McBean on this as well. Thanks.
>
> Gary Olson
> Oshkosh
>
>
> __________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
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Message 13
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Don,
Jan Gougeon, one of the three brothers owning the WEST system components and
production facilities, is a homebuilder and flyer of an RV-6..........they published
several articles on using the West system products in homebuilding of aircraft.
Nothing to worry about in talking directly to their engineer, JR, concerning
the actual use of the products...........
Sid
just north of Bay City and good friends to the whole bunch down there
-------------------
Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
To All,
I've had some discussion with the West Systems Epoxy people and this is what
they had to say. Note that I used my old Ford tractor as having the bad tank (I've
learned not to mention the word "airplane") I'm not sure about his last
statement that "ALL" epoxies are vulnerable to Ethanol??? I mean, GAS STATIONS
have epoxy tanks.
FROM ME TO WEST:
Several years ago I asked about a fabricated fiberglass gasoline tank that was
leaking on my Ford tractor. We discussed cutting open the tank and coating the
insides with West Systems epoxy resin. You informed me that it would probably
work just fine and, it did. No leaks for several years now. New problem,,,in
a very short time all the local gasoline is going to 10% Ethanol and I was told
by a friend that the Ethanol was going to eat the West Systems epoxy off the
insides of the tanks. Does this sound like a true statement to you? If so,
I guess it's time to get a new tank.
Thanks,
Don Smythe
FROM WEST:
It is true that ethanol will with time dissolve the cured epoxy - actually soften
it. So its safe to say that the epoxy answer to gasoline tank repair may
be over. We are looking into ethanol resistant coating that could be applied
over the epoxy repair. This could solve the situation.
FOLLOW UP QUESTION FROM ME TO WEST:
Mr. Watson,
Thank you for the quick response. I see in several places on the web and in
your comment that Ethanol will dissolve or soften Epoxy. Is this simply West
Sytems Epoxy or all Epoxies? Are there any Epoxies that are
safe against Ethanol?
Thanks again
Don Smythe
FINAL RESPONSE FROM WEST:
As far was we can tell it is all epoxies.
Gougeon Brothers, Inc.
100 Patterson Ave., PO Box 908
Bay City, MI 48707-0908 U.S.A.
tel: 866-937-8797
tel: 989-684-7286
fax: 989-684-1287
"Why can't we all just get along?"
__________________________________________________
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Jun 10, 2006, at 11:36 PM, Sid Hausding wrote:
> Jan Gougeon, one of the three brothers owning the WEST system
> components and production facilities, is a homebuilder and flyer of an
> RV-6..........they published several articles on using the West system
> products in homebuilding of aircraft.
Twenty-six years ago, I had the pleasure to participate at the design
and building of Miss Piggy, a Norwegian racing sailboat of 34 feet. The
entire hull and deck was made of veneer glued together with West System
epoxy. I loved the technique, the strength and lightweight of the
material. I wouldn't have any objection building an aircraft in wood
bounded together with that type of epoxy.
The technique of layering thin veneer glued together is, in fact,
coming from aircraft floats, during the 30s. I believe it is called:
cold moulding.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 15
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Years ago the Gougeons built a custom one off racing yacht for here in the Great
Lakes of about 42' called "Golden Daisy". Completely built with and coated
in WEST system epoxis. Of all wooden construction with the clear coating it was
a beautiful testimony to wooden boat building and their awesome talents in
the boating industry and wood working expertise. Has won many trophies and awards
in its class years ago.......will try to find a picture to send out to ya.............
Sid
been racing here on the Great Lakes myself for over 40 years.........yay, fresh
water! :-)
-------------------
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
On Jun 10, 2006, at 11:36 PM, Sid Hausding wrote:
> Jan Gougeon, one of the three brothers owning the WEST system
> components and production facilities, is a homebuilder and flyer of an
> RV-6..........they published several articles on using the West system
> products in homebuilding of aircraft.
Twenty-six years ago, I had the pleasure to participate at the design
and building of Miss Piggy, a Norwegian racing sailboat of 34 feet. The
entire hull and deck was made of veneer glued together with West System
epoxy. I loved the technique, the strength and lightweight of the
material. I wouldn't have any objection building an aircraft in wood
bounded together with that type of epoxy.
The technique of layering thin veneer glued together is, in fact,
coming from aircraft floats, during the 30s. I believe it is called:
cold moulding.
Cheers,
Michel
"Why can't we all just get along?"
__________________________________________________
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