Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:34 AM - SV: The "Claw" tie down (Michel Verheughe)
2. 03:32 AM - Re: kitfox spar damage (Dave G.)
3. 03:42 AM - Re: kitfox spar damage (Dave G.)
4. 03:55 AM - Re: kitfox spar damage (Dave)
5. 03:55 AM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (Fox5flyer)
6. 04:41 AM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (Rex)
7. 05:33 AM - Re: Volkswagon Conversion (Paul Seehafer)
8. 06:06 AM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (Larry Huntley)
9. 08:55 AM - Re: Warp drive hub. (kurt schrader)
10. 09:48 AM - Re: Warp drive hub. ()
11. 09:52 AM - Archive List (Howard)
12. 11:35 AM - Re: Volkswagon Conversion (Clint Bazzill)
13. 12:39 PM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (Lowell Fitt)
14. 12:47 PM - Re: Volkswagon Conversion (Michel Verheughe)
15. 02:12 PM - Volkswagon Conversion (jeff puls)
16. 02:45 PM - Re: Volkswagon Conversion (John Anderson)
17. 03:37 PM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (Fox5flyer)
18. 04:37 PM - Lock Haven Fly-in (Daniel Aller)
19. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Camera Mount (Torgeir Mortensen)
20. 05:30 PM - Re: Lock Haven Fly-in (Larry Huntley)
21. 05:31 PM - 582 Warp Prop Diameter (Guy Buchanan)
22. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: Camera Mount (Aerobatics@aol.com)
23. 05:53 PM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (Guy Buchanan)
24. 06:36 PM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (Larry Huntley)
25. 06:41 PM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (Randy Daughenbaugh)
26. 07:13 PM - Re: Warp drive hub. (Randy Daughenbaugh)
27. 07:15 PM - re- Lock Haven Fly-in (David McCormick)
28. 07:35 PM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (Rexster)
29. 08:23 PM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (kurt schrader)
30. 08:27 PM - Re: Volkswagon Conversion/redrive (ron schick)
31. 08:37 PM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (Dan Billingsley)
32. 10:18 PM - Re: The "Claw" tie down (clemwehner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | The "Claw" tie down |
> From: Lowell Fitt [lcfitt@sbcglobal.net]
> What I didn't like about the claw is that the spikes are driven toward the
> center of the circle.
Here is a thought, guys: A sailor knows that he has to pay out anchor chain ten
times his depth.
By increasing the angle of the tie-down, you increase its holding in the ground
... to a certain point, of course. I have the screw type (sold as dog's tie-down
in pet shops) and I always extend them outward, nearly to the end of the wings.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: kitfox spar damage |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Thanks to all for the replies. I had talked to Sportplane about the repair a
couple of weeks ago, when I thought only one spar needed replacing, and we
had determined that the chance of sucessfylly reusing the insert was poor. I
didn't want the spliced rear spar but posted the pictures because I didn't
definitively know that it wouldn't work.
I am still curious about the other rear spar. I will take another, clearer,
picture when it stops raining. I expect you could get by with this for some
time, if the wing had not been uncovered it would not be noticable except
for the deformation of the mounting tabs. Since the wings are both without
fabric at this time, it makes sense to replace it. I expect I'll have the
technique of removing the spar after the other wing is done.
Just because the epoxy removal is a slow and difficult job, I asked
Sportplane about a whole wing kit. I'll decide how much to order when I have
this spar out.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: kitfox spar damage |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 11:23 PM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I was amazed at the number of holes drilled through the spars etc. - big
> holes. I sure like the kitfox - avid design.
>
> Lowell
>
The original builder put a couple of holes in the rear spars in this case.
He had routed the wiring for the strobes/navs and the tube for the A/S pitot
through the spar. I doubt I would have done it without specific instructions
but it seems to have worked out fine. Indeed he may well have had the okay
from Denney, there is a huge amount of correspondence from the build. It's
all from the days before Emails so there are pages of information back and
forth.
Just in case someone might know the builder, the aircraft was built by Glen
McGuigan of Nackawic New Brunswick 1992.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: kitfox spar damage |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Dave,
I agree that entire wings would be best most likely. Tubing is all standard
but when you buy it comes in 20 foot lengths.
Shipping can be abusive to alum sheeting and tube. Dented materials is not
an option.
Ribs - you might need a few when you are done and I would ask Sportplane
what cost is for Ribs etc. depeneds on what your hours are worth to you.
Actually more like days or weeks to get apart.
And like i said before, I wold find a experienced builder to come look over
this plane as after seeing those repairs, well who knows else was messed
up.
When all said and done you want a plane that you can feel safe in.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 6:29 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
>
> Thanks to all for the replies. I had talked to Sportplane about the repair
> a couple of weeks ago, when I thought only one spar needed replacing, and
> we had determined that the chance of sucessfylly reusing the insert was
> poor. I didn't want the spliced rear spar but posted the pictures because
> I didn't definitively know that it wouldn't work.
>
> I am still curious about the other rear spar. I will take another,
> clearer, picture when it stops raining. I expect you could get by with
> this for some time, if the wing had not been uncovered it would not be
> noticable except for the deformation of the mounting tabs. Since the wings
> are both without fabric at this time, it makes sense to replace it. I
> expect I'll have the technique of removing the spar after the other wing
> is done.
>
> Just because the epoxy removal is a slow and difficult job, I asked
> Sportplane about a whole wing kit. I'll decide how much to order when I
> have this spar out.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: The "Claw" tie down |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Lowell, I agree. I've thought about this a lot and it just doesn't seem
like it grabs much dirt by angling the spikes inward. What I've been
thinking about coming up with is something quite different.
First, it's early and I've just started my coffee so I don't know how
coherent this will be, but here goes.
Materials: I think a simple triangular 5052 aluminum plate about 8X6X1/4
inches with three 9/16" holes in a row on one side about 3" apart and a
large 1" hole in the opposite corner. The three 9/16" holes would be for
the driving rods and the large hole would be for the rope. Next I'd need
three 18X7/16" 5052 aluminum rods pointed at one end.
Placement: Now, the tiedown plate would be placed directly under the
tiedown ring, but about 3 feet laterally outward toward the wing tip and the
stakes driven into the ground at about a 45 degree angle toward the fuselage
with the outward stakes driven at a 20 degree outward angle from the center
stake. By using these angles and all facing relatively toward the fuselage,
it seems to me that the maximum holding power would be available and all
stakes would have equal holding power. The angles I'm visualizing here are
only approximate and may need some tweaking for maximum strength.
Some sort of method for removing the stakes and also for capping them so
they won't slip through the holes in the plate would be necessary, but those
are simple details that could easily be solved. 5052 is very strong, but
also very light so the entire package would weigh very little and could be
wrapped in a towel or something while stored in the baggage area.
Obviously these stakes would be good for dirt only, not asphalt or rocks.
I'll try to whip up a drawing or something if this isn't making any sense.
Comments?
Deke
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 10:36 PM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> What I didn't like about the claw is that the spikes are driven toward the
> center of the circle. It seemed to me that heavy enough lifting could
> simply lift a cone of earth out. I would likd the design better if the
> spikes were driven outward, increasing the circumference of the spiked
area.
>
> Loewll
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 5:20 PM
>
>
> The two that I saw looked like these. They were ripped completely out of
the
> ground. Larry Huntley
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rexster
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:57 PM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: The "Claw" tie down
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have one of the ones that Spruce sells and it's worked well for me
in
> some of Oshkosh's nasty storms. It sure is a heavy package though. Is this
> the same Claw that three of seven damaged aircraft were using or is it a
> different one?
>
> Rex Phelps in Michigan
>
> -- Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com> wrote:
>
>
> Kirk,
> I thought that was the case when I heard "claw" ...I was mistaken. This
is
> the one that Spruce sells.
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/claw.php
> The EAA one as you mentioned is what I am going to make...
> http://www.vintageaircraft.org/magazine/aircraft_tiedown.pdf
>
>
> For more info this is what EAA has to say about tie downs:
> http://www.airventure.org/2006/planning/tying_down.html
> Dan
>
> kirk hull <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> when you say " Claw " is that the one that the EAA has plans for one
> the osh websight? it is kind of a flat plate with a U bolt in the middle
> and 3 holes to drive stakes through.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
McCormick
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 1:17 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: The "Claw" tie down
>
>
> On Thursday at the Sentemental Journey Fly-In at LockHaven,
> Pennsylvania ( LHV ) we had a severe thunderstorm and at the time there
were
> around 180 lite aircraft tied down on the airfield. 3 of the 7 airplanes
> that had damaged were tied down with the " Claw " One of the claw arms
that
> was holding a J-3 Cub broke, and the other calw tiedowns came out of the
> ground. Mabee I was just lucky but my Kitfox was tied down with screw in
> type tie downs.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> 6/23/2006
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: The "Claw" tie down |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
There can be problems with any temporary anchoring system if improperly
used. The condition of the soil is going to be a major factor on how
well it can hold an anchor. I would guess that as it rained the soil
lost much of it's holding ability. Michel's suggestion of length is wise
due to the angle of tension for the type of anchor he uses. I don't
think it would work well for a Claw. I would also expect the soil
conditions to vary from site to site. So some planes may have been lucky
that they were over better holding ground. Still, a thunderstorm is
going to be very tough on any achoring system.
Reports of real world experiences such as this can be very useful as
long as you can factor in all the details.
Rex
Florida/Colorado
>
>
> The two that I saw looked like these. They were ripped completely out
> of the ground. Larry Huntley
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Volkswagon Conversion |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
All,
I find the 370 lbs of static thrust very interesting. That is the same
number my buddy with his 100 hp 912s got when testing his sensinech prop
setup on his airplane. Assuming both of their testing information is
accurate, that is a pretty impressive static thrust number for a VW.
I've generally been a naysayer of a VW on a STOL airplane, as without a
redrive they just can't turn a big diameter prop efficiently (their high
rpms cause supersonic tip speeds, and prop inefficiency). But with a
redrive, I think there is a strong possibility that a VW just might work on
our planes? So I am very interested in following Ron's performance
information once he gets his redrive VW Fox in the air.
I agree with Clint's previous post stating that the 912 engines work very
well in our aircraft, and if you want a sure bet, buy one of those (as I
have). But I really do believe the VW with a redrive stands a good chance
to become a viable alternative that could become at least a less expensive
secondary choice. A few years back I saw a one-off Super Stol design
powered by a VW (with redrive) do some astonishing takeoffs and landings at
Oshkosh. That pretty much proved to me the engine has potential on STOL
airplanes like ours. I'd been hoping someone would try one on an Avid or
Kitfox one day.
The non-redrive VW's will work well on fast aircraft like the Sonex as they
are utilizing shorter propellors so they don't get supersonic tip speeds
rendering them inefficient. Commonly, fast aircraft use shorter props. So
they work well in that environment. Unfortunately our aircraft operate more
efficiently with longer props, so until now, VW's (without redrives) have
provided only marginal performance. Just like a 912 or 582 would if you
removed the redrive.
So Ron, please do keep us updated on your flight testing. It will be very
interesting to follow.
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
912ul Model IV-1200 on Aerocet Amphibs
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 9:53 PM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick"
> <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
>
> Ken I'm waiting for AW inspection so no results other than static thrust
> 370 lbs. 1915cc VW, 1.6:1 redrive, 72" Ivo. Where Are you located? Ron
> NB Ore
>
>
>>From: "Ken Arnold" <arno7452@bellsouth.net>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Volkswagon Conversion
>>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:11:42 -0400
>>
>>Dear Listers,
>>I am looking at Kitfox Classic IV 1200 project with VW engine. What think
>>you about using VW engine for this plane? I have no experience and scant
>>knowledge of this power plant.
>>Many thanks,
>>Ken
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: The "Claw" tie down |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
The ground was soft and wet at Sentimental Journey. I use screw stakes(like
dog screws ,but longer and larger dia.). They were screwed in ALL the way.
Dog screws are too light and have a flat spot where the ring is fastened
that just breaks off if you put too much force on them. The ropes were
pulled TIGHT and locked w/ 2 half hitches. In the worst of the storm,it was
not even wiggling. I saw one bird that had torn screws loose,but it had been
tied w/ a strap w/ only one lpass over the strut,instead of wrapping it
around so it could not slide down. Of course,it slid down the strut,the wind
lifted the wing and w/ all the leverage,the screw tore loose. Saw many
bouncing up and down on ropes that were tied too loosely.
Screw them down til the ring is at dirt level,lash the ropes tight(my old
instructor used to say,"two half hitches will hold the devil".),run the rope
over the strut and then through the ring if there is one,or twice around the
strut top. Ring does a good job of holding the rope from sliding down the
strut,but they have been known to break off if the forces get too high.
There probably is no perfect system,but if there is it probably comes from
hurricane country. If it has worked there,it will probably work anywhere. In
40 yrs from Florida to Alaska,I have never had a problem. (Shouldn't aughta
say that,eh?) Larry
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 7:38 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
>
> There can be problems with any temporary anchoring system if improperly
> used. The condition of the soil is going to be a major factor on how well
> it can hold an anchor. I would guess that as it rained the soil lost much
> of it's holding ability. Michel's suggestion of length is wise due to the
> angle of tension for the type of anchor he uses. I don't think it would
> work well for a Claw. I would also expect the soil conditions to vary from
> site to site. So some planes may have been lucky that they were over
> better holding ground. Still, a thunderstorm is going to be very tough on
> any achoring system.
> Reports of real world experiences such as this can be very useful as long
> as you can factor in all the details.
> Rex
> Florida/Colorado
>
>
>>
>>
>> The two that I saw looked like these. They were ripped completely out of
>> the ground. Larry Huntley
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Warp drive hub. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Deke,
Had me worried for a minute... :-) Thought you had
the John Deere GB. Mine is 2.23 to 1 for the little
turbo and I think I would have liked it closer to 2:1.
Your GB seems to do well for the normal engine.
As far as I know, Warp has had an excellent reputation
after some initial issues with cracking hubs that they
fixed. (Warp, not NSI hubs) The blades are very
strong and seem to do well.
John McB.... What is going to be standard prop on the
new Fox's?
Kurt S.
--- Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
> MessageMy apologies. I just checked mine and it is
> indeed 2:34.
> Thanks for the correction.
> Deke
__________________________________________________
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <michael.logan@cox.net>
The ratio is 2.41:1
---- wingsdown <wingsdown@comcast.net> wrote:
> Correction 2:X:1 not 3, gezzzz old is bad. There was a lot of playing
> around with ration way back. Best to start with the original suggested
> recommendation with the given prop combination.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of QSS
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:19 AM
>
>
> Hi Guy, can anyone tell me if a 68inch Warp Drive 3 blade prop will
> match up with an NSI gear box. Im not sure about the gear ratio of the
> NSI but I have been told they are 2.5 to 1 for the EA81 engine. I was
> going to purchase a Bolly carbon fibre prop but the Warp Drive was
> offered to me for half price so its a good deal if it fits OK. If
> someone with could tell me which way to go it would be appreciated.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards
> Graeme
>
Message 11
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When I try to open this message, I get a blank page with a note in the
top corner," Can't open Archive"..
How do I read these messages.
Howard
?LISTNAME=Kitfox?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=09460127648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES">
Re: 2001 Kitfox 4 - 1200 with 912 UL For sale
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Volkswagon Conversion |
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: The "Claw" tie down |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Deke,
During our Idaho fly-outs we talk of tiedown methods all the time. Our
problem is that we are only occasionally in meadow like conditions where the
screw type would be ideal. One of the guys at the Utah fly-in had the
titanium ones and they are very nice. The diameter is not great - about 3",
but they are very light weight and come with a short piece of titanium to
use as a wrench so the last one is as easy to get into the ground as the
first two.
Other times - actually very frequently - the ground is rocky and hard and
the screw type are very difficult to get in. Of course once in, they will
hold like a buried anvil.
One of the guys had an interesting idea where two rods - actually the long,
about 12" construction nails - are driven into the ground at an angle within
a single link of chain and the tiedown rope looped inder the two heads and
the chain link I think this is similar to your idea. My version uses a
short piece of 5/8" X 1" aluminum bar with divergent holes drilled through
so the nails are held at about a 60 or 70 degree angle. I think this is
something like your idea. I can drive these in anywhere and the ridgidly
held angled spikes have to move a lot of dirt to come out.
For removal, I ground the claws on a small hammer to accept the heads of the
large nails and using the hammer as a large handle they are easily removed.
The whole thing including hammer and bag weighs just under three pounds.
I think if you angled the holes so the spikes would be held at the angles
and placed them so the aluminum triagle is parallel with the wing, it would
have 30% more holding power than mine and if you could find titanium spikes
it should be a sure winner.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 3:55 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Lowell, I agree. I've thought about this a lot and it just doesn't seem
> like it grabs much dirt by angling the spikes inward. What I've been
> thinking about coming up with is something quite different.
> First, it's early and I've just started my coffee so I don't know how
> coherent this will be, but here goes.
>
> Materials: I think a simple triangular 5052 aluminum plate about 8X6X1/4
> inches with three 9/16" holes in a row on one side about 3" apart and a
> large 1" hole in the opposite corner. The three 9/16" holes would be for
> the driving rods and the large hole would be for the rope. Next I'd need
> three 18X7/16" 5052 aluminum rods pointed at one end.
>
> Placement: Now, the tiedown plate would be placed directly under the
> tiedown ring, but about 3 feet laterally outward toward the wing tip and
> the
> stakes driven into the ground at about a 45 degree angle toward the
> fuselage
> with the outward stakes driven at a 20 degree outward angle from the
> center
> stake. By using these angles and all facing relatively toward the
> fuselage,
> it seems to me that the maximum holding power would be available and all
> stakes would have equal holding power. The angles I'm visualizing here
> are
> only approximate and may need some tweaking for maximum strength.
>
> Some sort of method for removing the stakes and also for capping them so
> they won't slip through the holes in the plate would be necessary, but
> those
> are simple details that could easily be solved. 5052 is very strong, but
> also very light so the entire package would weigh very little and could be
> wrapped in a towel or something while stored in the baggage area.
> Obviously these stakes would be good for dirt only, not asphalt or rocks.
> I'll try to whip up a drawing or something if this isn't making any sense.
> Comments?
> Deke
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 10:36 PM
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> What I didn't like about the claw is that the spikes are driven toward
>> the
>> center of the circle. It seemed to me that heavy enough lifting could
>> simply lift a cone of earth out. I would likd the design better if the
>> spikes were driven outward, increasing the circumference of the spiked
> area.
>>
>> Loewll
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 5:20 PM
>>
>>
>> The two that I saw looked like these. They were ripped completely out of
> the
>> ground. Larry Huntley
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Rexster
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:57 PM
>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: The "Claw" tie down
>>
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I have one of the ones that Spruce sells and it's worked well for me
> in
>> some of Oshkosh's nasty storms. It sure is a heavy package though. Is
>> this
>> the same Claw that three of seven damaged aircraft were using or is it a
>> different one?
>>
>> Rex Phelps in Michigan
>>
>> -- Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Kirk,
>> I thought that was the case when I heard "claw" ...I was mistaken. This
> is
>> the one that Spruce sells.
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/claw.php
>> The EAA one as you mentioned is what I am going to make...
>> http://www.vintageaircraft.org/magazine/aircraft_tiedown.pdf
>>
>>
>> For more info this is what EAA has to say about tie downs:
>> http://www.airventure.org/2006/planning/tying_down.html
>> Dan
>>
>> kirk hull <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> when you say " Claw " is that the one that the EAA has plans for one
>> the osh websight? it is kind of a flat plate with a U bolt in the middle
>> and 3 holes to drive stakes through.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
> McCormick
>> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 1:17 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: The "Claw" tie down
>>
>>
>> On Thursday at the Sentemental Journey Fly-In at LockHaven,
>> Pennsylvania ( LHV ) we had a severe thunderstorm and at the time there
> were
>> around 180 lite aircraft tied down on the airfield. 3 of the 7 airplanes
>> that had damaged were tied down with the " Claw " One of the claw arms
> that
>> was holding a J-3 Cub broke, and the other calw tiedowns came out of the
>> ground. Mabee I was just lucky but my Kitfox was tied down with screw in
>> type tie downs.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> 6/23/2006
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Volkswagon Conversion |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Jun 26, 2006, at 8:33 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:
> the Jabiru was faster, and the 582 out climbed the 2200.
Yep, I went from 582 to 2200 and I can confirm that. Mind you, with a
finer pitch prop, I would probably climb better than the 582 but I
would loose the edge at cruise speed. So, an in-flight variable pitch
would be nice but, unfortunately, that's exactly the only think the
Jabiru can't have because of its direct drive.
> I found that both engines were very noisy electrictly and
> mechanically.
... say again! ... can't hear you, say again, please! :-)
Seriously, the Jabiru can have (mine has) electrical noise but I can
live with it. Otherwise, mechanically, the Jabiru is very smooth
running, especially compared to the 582. But ... mechanical noise ...
from the engine or the prop? Isn't a two-bladed prop always more noisy
than a three-bladed?
> I suggest you spend some time before you make this HUGH investment in
> cost and time.
Yes, preparing the installation of an engine should be quality time.
Read, ask, compare, it's part of the fun of home-building aircraft. I
think both Rotax and Jabiru engines are fine engines, each with their
own up and down sides. I don't know about Volkswagen but I have a
friend with a motor-glider and he is very pleased with his VW Limbach.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 15
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| Subject: | Volkswagon Conversion |
I would love to trade my 912UL in for one of John Monnett's Aero Vee
engines. Imagine, one carburetor with a low RPM cruise!!! Jeff Classic
IV
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Volkswagon Conversion |
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: The "Claw" tie down |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
inbedded comments below...
> Deke,
> During our Idaho fly-outs we talk of tiedown methods all the time. Our
> problem is that we are only occasionally in meadow like conditions where
the
> screw type would be ideal. One of the guys at the Utah fly-in had the
> titanium ones and they are very nice. The diameter is not great - about
3",
> but they are very light weight and come with a short piece of titanium to
> use as a wrench so the last one is as easy to get into the ground as the
> first two.
I did a little research and those titanium screw-ins are very nice.
They're stronger and lighter than my steel screws, but they're also up to
$80 now. I think I can come up with a better solution than that.
>
> Other times - actually very frequently - the ground is rocky and hard and
> the screw type are very difficult to get in. Of course once in, they will
> hold like a buried anvil.
Correct. In rockey ground, or even very dry hard clay, they can be
a bear to work with, but once they're in... Spikes can handle pretty much
anything other than large rocks.
>
> One of the guys had an interesting idea where two rods - actually the
long,
> about 12" construction nails - are driven into the ground at an angle
within
> a single link of chain and the tiedown rope looped inder the two heads and
> the chain link I think this is similar to your idea. My version uses a
> short piece of 5/8" X 1" aluminum bar with divergent holes drilled through
> so the nails are held at about a 60 or 70 degree angle. I think this is
> something like your idea. I can drive these in anywhere and the ridgidly
> held angled spikes have to move a lot of dirt to come out.
Hmmmmm. That link of chain adds a twist to this. Maybe even two or
three links, each with it's own spike and one link for the rope? Even more
simple yet. I think 12" isn't really long enough as they wouldn't do much
in soft ground. 18" will really get down there. I'm still thinking about
the 5052 aluminum rod rather than nails.
>
> For removal, I ground the claws on a small hammer to accept the heads of
the
> large nails and using the hammer as a large handle they are easily
removed.
> The whole thing including hammer and bag weighs just under three pounds.
>
> I think if you angled the holes so the spikes would be held at the angles
> and placed them so the aluminum triagle is parallel with the wing, it
would
> have 30% more holding power than mine and if you could find titanium
spikes
> it should be a sure winner.
> Lowell
I really do think the crux of this whole thing isn't so much as
whether it's screw-in or spikes, but the angle of the rope to the wing and
the angle of the spikes. If the angle of the rope is about 45 degrees from
the wing to the ground and the spikes are at about 60 degrees (inward toward
fuselage) to the rope, I don't think you could get much stronger.
Deke
Deke
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 3:55 AM
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
<morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >
> > Lowell, I agree. I've thought about this a lot and it just doesn't
seem
> > like it grabs much dirt by angling the spikes inward. What I've been
> > thinking about coming up with is something quite different.
> > First, it's early and I've just started my coffee so I don't know how
> > coherent this will be, but here goes.
> >
> > Materials: I think a simple triangular 5052 aluminum plate about
8X6X1/4
> > inches with three 9/16" holes in a row on one side about 3" apart and a
> > large 1" hole in the opposite corner. The three 9/16" holes would be
for
> > the driving rods and the large hole would be for the rope. Next I'd
need
> > three 18X7/16" 5052 aluminum rods pointed at one end.
> >
> > Placement: Now, the tiedown plate would be placed directly under the
> > tiedown ring, but about 3 feet laterally outward toward the wing tip and
> > the
> > stakes driven into the ground at about a 45 degree angle toward the
> > fuselage
> > with the outward stakes driven at a 20 degree outward angle from the
> > center
> > stake. By using these angles and all facing relatively toward the
> > fuselage,
> > it seems to me that the maximum holding power would be available and all
> > stakes would have equal holding power. The angles I'm visualizing here
> > are
> > only approximate and may need some tweaking for maximum strength.
> >
> > Some sort of method for removing the stakes and also for capping them so
> > they won't slip through the holes in the plate would be necessary, but
> > those
> > are simple details that could easily be solved. 5052 is very strong,
but
> > also very light so the entire package would weigh very little and could
be
> > wrapped in a towel or something while stored in the baggage area.
> > Obviously these stakes would be good for dirt only, not asphalt or
rocks.
> > I'll try to whip up a drawing or something if this isn't making any
sense.
> > Comments?
> > Deke
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 10:36 PM
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> >>
> >> What I didn't like about the claw is that the spikes are driven toward
> >> the
> >> center of the circle. It seemed to me that heavy enough lifting could
> >> simply lift a cone of earth out. I would likd the design better if the
> >> spikes were driven outward, increasing the circumference of the spiked
> > area.
> >>
> >> Loewll
Message 18
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| Subject: | Lock Haven Fly-in |
David McCormick and Larry Huntley,
How many Foxes were at the Lock Haven Fly-in counting you two? I live in
PA ( KVVS ) 135 miles SW of LockHaven ( LHV ) , but couldn't make it
this year. David I would to fly up to ( N13 ) soon to meet you if I knew
when you were around the Airport. Larry, where are you based and what
model Fox do you have? I would like to meet you and see your Kitfox.
Dan Aller
Classic IV 912s 239DA
Phone # 724 858 9981
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Camera Mount |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Well done Dave,
calling someones project "horrible" is pretty callousness, I'll say, -you
should know better!!
Lowells solution to his problem is a piece of art that not anyone can
copy.
This is his solution to a problem he could not solve with use of
"electronics", -think about that!
OK., -dealing with "high" torque motors and feedback is not for anybody to
solve, as it can be "very" difficult!
On this list there's lot of people representing all kind of tech.
Who am I, well -work with aviation electronics, and with those gyro
stabilized (and non stabilized) camera platforms hanging under a
helicopter, or installed into an ordinary aircraft..
(This one made me angry.)
Sorry.
Torgeir.
Do not archive
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:02:09 EDT, <Aerobatics@aol.com> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/25/2006 9:44:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> lcfitt@sbcglobal.net writes:
>
> Thanks for the "horrible" report, but you really don't know what you are
> talking about and the only way you will change my mind is to make one,
> shoot
> some video and let me see it.
>
> Actually, I have experimented with servos and with the budget I have and
> what is out there - they don't work. I talked to a guy over the weekend
> that is working on a still camera system and for that they will work
> fine,
> for video, even with 5 pole digital servos you will see the pulse of the
> step movement in a slow pan. I guess you can essentially filter this
> out
> with stabilizing gyros, but then you are talking some bucks.
>
> Being always willing to learn something new - do prove me wrong. If you
> work for the government on secret weapons systems all bets are off, but
> if
> you can prove me wrong with common off the shelf servos, I am all ears -
> eyes.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 12:40 AM
>
>
> Actually that's what I do for a living....radio control... here are a
> few
> ideas.
>
> Do not use pole motor servos, use coreless, and a quality one at that.
> For
> camera panning, I would think torque is better than speed. At least
> 150 inch
> ounces. You can now get servos well over 300 inch ounces. If you choose
> Hitec, buy the programmer and set dead band to min. Another thing, try
> not get a
> huge amount of sweep of camera, but set max throws on servos. This is a
> very
> common mistake. Set throws to 150% each way. This alone will make a
> dramatic
> difference.
>
> Having never done it, I still think it can work.
> Friction is a big no no. That will make the panning sticky.....
>
> Call me if you need some help
>
> Dave
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Lock Haven Fly-in |
Hi Dan,
I am between Dundee and Hammondsport,NY on a farm strip about 12 nm
south of PEO(PennYan). I have a 4-1200 Subaru Kitfox,but I had a Cub at
Lock Haven. I only saw 2 Kitfoxes there,but there may have been more.
Be happy to have you(or any other Kitfox driver stop in. Need to call
first. I live about 1/2 mile from the strip. 607 292 6318
Larry Huntley
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Aller
To: kitfox-list
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 7:35 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Lock Haven Fly-in
David McCormick and Larry Huntley,
How many Foxes were at the Lock Haven Fly-in counting you two? I live
in PA ( KVVS ) 135 miles SW of LockHaven ( LHV ) , but couldn't make it
this year. David I would to fly up to ( N13 ) soon to meet you if I knew
when you were around the Airport. Larry, where are you based and what
model Fox do you have? I would like to meet you and see your Kitfox.
Dan Aller
Classic IV 912s 239DA
Phone # 724 858 9981
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
No virus found in this incoming message.
6/25/2006
Message 21
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| Subject: | 582 Warp Prop Diameter |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Hi guys,
I was just putting my paperwork together for the DAR, when I
discovered that I have a 70" 3 blade Warp prop. Skystar recommended a 68"
prop for the 582. (I've got a 582 with a 3:1 C box and APC clutch.) I've
got an email into Warp to see if I can cut an inch off, but I'm wondering
if the 70" is better from a performance standpoint. I've checked the tip
speed and it's quite slow. (591 fps, .53 mach at 85 knots and 5800 rpm.)
My other problem is I require documentation proving the combo is
acceptable. How about it John? Do you have any documentation for
K-IV/582/70" Warp 3-blade combinations?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Camera Mount |
I never said horrible?
Anyway that camera mount is brilliant.
A good friend of mine is a software engineer for a company that makes those
ball cameras that get mounted on helicopters and such. I got some insight how
they work. It is very sophisticated.
Physics play a huge role to deal with the basics, getting the CG and pivot
points correct, the rest is electronic compensation using very high gain solid
state gyros and servo motors.
I think its really cool someone is trying to make one for average
photography.
Dave
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: The "Claw" tie down |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 06:05 AM 6/26/2006, you wrote:
>run the rope
>over the strut and then through the ring if there is one,or twice around the
>strut top.
Yikes! Are you side-loading the outboard strut end? VERY SCARY, if so. You
could easily bend the threaded rod inboard of the rod end.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: The "Claw" tie down |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
It doesn't sideload it as much as you might think. If it goes through a
hurricane,I'll replace the strut ends rather than the whole airplane. This
probably applies more to other strut systems( like the Avid and others)than
the Fox. You have a good point,but I will continue as I have. Next time at
the hangar I will look it over . Larry
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 8:51 PM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 06:05 AM 6/26/2006, you wrote:
>>run the rope
>>over the strut and then through the ring if there is one,or twice around
>>the
>>strut top.
>
> Yikes! Are you side-loading the outboard strut end? VERY SCARY, if so. You
> could easily bend the threaded rod inboard of the rod end.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | The "Claw" tie down |
David, (Or others),
The data point that is missing here is how many planes were tied down with
the Claw? If there were three, the failure rate was 100%. If there were 6
the failure rate drops to 50% - Still not good! If over half the planes
there were using the "Claw", the failure rate drops to a much more
reasonable 3%.
Because the claw is relatively new, I suspect that not very many were using
it. Can anybody provide some insight here? My first impression of the
claw, based on advertisements, was good. But I think I like Lowell's
design better.
Sorry to be so late coming to this thread.
Randy
.
_____
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McCormick
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:17 PM
On Thursday at the Sentemental Journey Fly-In at LockHaven, Pennsylvania (
LHV ) we had a severe thunderstorm and at the time there were around 180
lite aircraft tied down on the airfield. 3 of the 7 airplanes that had
damaged were tied down with the " Claw " One of the claw arms that was
holding a J-3 Cub broke, and the other calw tiedowns came out of the ground.
Mabee I was just lucky but my Kitfox was tied down with screw in type tie
downs.
Message 26
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Clem said:
"It goes without saying that anything you gain on climb, you lose on cruise,
and vice-versa."
Clem,
I know my comment here does not exactly address your statement above, but I
think it is pertinent.
When I shortened my Powerfin to 70" based on their recommendation, I was
able to put more pitch in and got 6 or 7 MPH faster cruise AND a much
shorter take off run than with the original 72". I was amazed that 1" on
the radius could make that much difference an improve both ends of
performance.
Randy
.
_____
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:24 PM
Graeme:
I know nothing about the model number. My plane has a 70 inch Ward Drive
Prop which has been shortened about 1/2" because of a ground-strike I was
careless enough to make. I would first quote Tony Bingelis, the guru who
has written several books on experimental building, when he says "Use as
long a prop as you can for as long as you can". Having said that, you can
always put enough pirch into the prop to keep the engine from over-revving.
I cannot say what effect that would have on your climb rate or your cruise
speed, however. It goes without saying that anything you gain on climb, you
lose on cruise, and vice-versa. I wish I could tell you more, but this is
the sum total of my knowledge about props.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Post
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:38 PM
Unfortunately the manual I have for this gear box does not state the gear
ratio but the model number is NSI A12/A30 or at least thats what the cover
says. If this is the model you are referring to Clem, do you feel the 68
inch Warp Drive would be OK. Kirk has been advised that this is the correct
size for his Status EA81 but he didnt say what gear box he is running. I
will be interested to hear how his first flight went.
Regards
Graeme Toft
Queensland Safety Solutions
Ph: 07 49397011
Mob: 0411476527
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 8:45 AM
It's my understanding that if the builder did not specify otherwise, the
standard prop reduction ratio was 2.34 to 1 with the NSI EA81 non-turbo
engine.
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 9:17 AM
Correction 2:X:1 not 3, gezzzz old is bad. There was a lot of playing around
with ration way back. Best to start with the original suggested
recommendation with the given prop combination.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of QSS
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:19 AM
Hi Guy, can anyone tell me if a 68inch Warp Drive 3 blade prop will match up
with an NSI gear box. Im not sure about the gear ratio of the NSI but I have
been told they are 2.5 to 1 for the EA81 engine. I was going to purchase a
Bolly carbon fibre prop but the Warp Drive was offered to me for half price
so its a good deal if it fits OK. If someone with could tell me which way to
go it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Regards
Graeme
_____
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Date: 21/06/2006
Message 27
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| Subject: | re- Lock Haven Fly-in |
Dan, I am based at JerseyShore ( P96 ) 9 miles east of LHV and am at the
airport most weekends, I am flying a Classic IV powered by a 2200
Jabiru. I belong EAA 769 at Danville,Pa ( 8N8 ) and we have 5 Foxes in
our chapter. We get together at 8N8 on the first Saturday morning of the
month, and also are having a fly-in breakfast July 23rd.
David McCormick N195CL
570-547-1134
Message 28
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| Subject: | The "Claw" tie down |
Randy,
I'm not sure how new the Claw system is. I bought mine two years ago a
nd had seen it at Oshkosh for at least a couple years before that. I see
m to be the Lone Ranger here, but I like mine. Once I have it set up, I
can't picture it ever coming out because of winds.
Rex in Michigan
-- "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com> wrote:
David, (Or others),
The data point that is missing here is how many planes were tied down wi
th the Claw? If there were three, the failure rate was 100%. If there
were 6 the failure rate drops to 50% - Still not good! If over half the
planes there were using the =93Claw=94, the failure rate drops to a muc
h more reasonable 3%.
Because the claw is relatively new, I suspect that not very many were us
ing it. Can anybody provide some insight here? My first impression of
the claw, based on advertisements, was good. But I think I like Lowell
=92s design better.
Sorry to be so late coming to this thread.
Randy
=2E
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McCormick
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:17 PM
On Thursday at the Sentemental Journey Fly-In at LockHaven, Pennsylvania
( LHV ) we had a severe thunderstorm and at the time there were around
180 lite aircraft tied down on the airfield. 3 of the 7 airplanes that h
ad damaged were tied down with the " Claw " One of the claw arms that wa
s holding a J-3 Cub broke, and the other calw tiedowns came out of the g
round. Mabee I was just lucky but my Kitfox was tied down with screw in
type tie downs.
<html><P>Randy,</P>
<P> I'm not sure how new the Claw system is. I bought mine two yea
rs ago and had seen it at Oshkosh for at least a couple years before tha
t. I seem to be the Lone Ranger here, but I like mine. Once I have it se
t up, I can't picture it ever coming out because of winds. </P>
<P>Rex in Michigan<BR><BR>-- "Randy Daughenbaugh" &
lt;rjdaugh@rapidnet.com> wrote:<BR></P>
<META content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered)" name=Generator>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">David, (Or
others),</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The data point th
at is missing here is how many planes were tied down with the Claw? 
; If there were three, the failure rate was 100%. If there were 6
the failure rate drops to 50% - Still not good! If over half the p
lanes there were using the =93Claw=94, the failure rate drops to a much
more reasonable 3%.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FO
NT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Because the claw
is relatively new, I suspect that not very many were using it. Can
anybody provide some insight here? My first impression of the cla
w, based on advertisements, was good. But I think I like Low
ell=92s design better.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FO
NT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sorry to be so la
te coming to this thread.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FO
NT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Randy</SPAN></FON
T></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FO
NT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=
3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">.
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FO
NT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT
-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT>
</B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FA
MILY: Tahoma"> owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitf
ox-list-server@matronics.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Be
half Of </SPAN></B>David McCormick<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bol
d">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:17 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="
FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> kitfox-list@matronics.com<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Kitfox-List: The "Claw"
tie down</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style
="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZ
E: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">On Thursday at the Sentemental Journey Fly-
In at LockHaven, Pennsylvania ( LHV ) we had a severe thunderstorm and a
t the time there were around 180 lite aircraft tied down on the airfield
. 3 of the 7 airplanes that had damaged were tied down with the " Claw "
One of the claw arms that was holding a J-3 Cub broke, and the other ca
lw tiedowns came out of the ground. Mabee I was just lucky but my Kitfox
was tied down with screw in type tie downs.</SPAN></FONT></P></DI
V></DIV></html>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: The "Claw" tie down |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
One thing to remember is to use a rope or strap of
sufficient strenght when pulling at an angle. A 45
degree angle reduces the strength of the rope in the
verticle plane by 30%. You need to use a rope 30%
stronger to achieve the same verticle tie down
strength. But I agree with the application.
How strong a rope are you all using?
That chain link idea with spikes thru it sounds kind'a
neat to me too.
Are there any tent or camping spikes strong enough to
work? Or are they all too small?
Just learning from you all this time.... Usefull
subject to everyone. :-)
Kurt S.
> Hmmmmm. That link of chain adds a twist to
> this. Maybe even two or three links, each with
> it's own spike and one link for the rope?
...................
> > I think if you angled the holes so the spikes
> would be held at the angles and placed them so the
> aluminum triagle is parallel with the wing, it
> would have 30% more holding power than mine and if
> you could find titanium spikes it should be a sure
> winner.
> > Lowell
__________________________________________________
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Volkswagon Conversion/redrive |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
The Redrive is made by Valley Engineering llc (Culver Props) and also
marketed by Great Plains. It was probably Gene Smith at Oshgosh you saw
flying the VW redrive. They have a video on their website if you can find
it. Valley Engineering llc, Culver Props, etc. etc. If you find the
right home page there are prop tip speed calculators and the works. There
is also one of their short field videos on Lazair's kitfox page. See you
at Arlington!!! Ron NB Ore
>From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Volkswagon Conversion
>Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 07:31:45 -0500
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
>All,
>
>I find the 370 lbs of static thrust very interesting. That is the same
>number my buddy with his 100 hp 912s got when testing his sensinech prop
>setup on his airplane. Assuming both of their testing information is
>accurate, that is a pretty impressive static thrust number for a VW.
>A few years back I saw a one-off Super Stol design powered by a VW (with
>redrive) do some astonishing takeoffs and landings at Oshkosh. That pretty
>much proved to me the engine has potential on STOL airplanes like ours.
>I'd been hoping someone would try one on an Avid or Kitfox one day.
>
>Paul Seehafer
>Central Wi______________________________________________________
>>Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>>http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | The "Claw" tie down |
Randy,
The first post of this thread indicated 3 out of 7 planes that were using the
Claw failed. Significant in my book...however, in reading all of these posts
one can get a flavor for what works...etc. The nature of the ground plays a big
part.
Dan
Randy Daughenbaugh <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com> wrote:
David, (Or others),
The data point that is missing here is how many planes were tied down with the
Claw? If there were three, the failure rate was 100%. If there were 6 the
failure rate drops to 50% - Still not good! If over half the planes there were
using the Claw, the failure rate drops to a much more reasonable 3%.
Because the claw is relatively new, I suspect that not very many were using it.
Can anybody provide some insight here? My first impression of the claw, based
on advertisements, was good. But I think I like Lowells design better.
Sorry to be so late coming to this thread.
Randy
.
---------------------------------
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McCormick
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:17 PM
On Thursday at the Sentemental Journey Fly-In at LockHaven, Pennsylvania (
LHV ) we had a severe thunderstorm and at the time there were around 180 lite
aircraft tied down on the airfield. 3 of the 7 airplanes that had damaged were
tied down with the " Claw " One of the claw arms that was holding a J-3 Cub broke,
and the other calw tiedowns came out of the ground. Mabee I was just lucky
but my Kitfox was tied down with screw in type tie downs.
Message 32
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| Subject: | The "Claw" tie down |
Here's something to think about. Consider how much lift our wings can
produce. In a 40 mph wind the wings can easily generate 600 lbs of lift,
likely a lot more if the angle of attack is high, or the winds are
higher.
I remember when I was a USAF C-141 pilot (4-engine jet transport). At
our base here in Oklahoma with storms coming with expected straight line
winds of 85-90 mph, maintenance tied down each aircraft with six 10,000
lb strength tie-down chains, thinking that should do it. The winds came
and some of the aircraft snapped all the chains and got moved around the
ramp. In retrospect, the C-141 rotates at 90 knots and lifts off at a
little over 100. At that speed it can lift 160,000 lbs of it's own
weight and almost 200,000 lbs of cargo. So 60,000 lbs of chain strength
wasn't even close to enough.
If the wind direction is from the aircraft's front, the wings can
generate an enormous amount of lift, even in a Kitfox. Imagine how much
lift could be generated with 60-70 MPH winds across the wings at the
high angle of attack presented to the wind when the tail is on the
ground.
Might take a LOT of stakes in the ground and some hefty rope!
Clem
Lawton, OK
KFIV-912
-----Original Message-----
RE: The Claw tiedown system
" Once I have it set up, I can't picture it ever coming out because of
winds. "
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