Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:29 AM - Re: Fuel level sensor (Michael Gibbs)
2. 02:29 AM - Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Michael Gibbs)
3. 03:22 AM - Re: 541KF AW CERT (Fox5flyer)
4. 03:41 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Dave)
5. 03:41 AM - Re: 541KF AW CERT (Dave)
6. 03:48 AM - Early 582 broken flywheel (Fox5flyer)
7. 04:42 AM - Re: Model IV 1200 Dimensions (Johannes Czernin)
8. 05:11 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor malcolm (Brian Smith)
9. 05:25 AM - Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 (kirk hull)
10. 05:27 AM - Re: Model IV 1200 Dimensions (Fox5flyer)
11. 05:27 AM - Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 (kirk hull)
12. 05:35 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Clem Nichols)
13. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Lowell Fitt)
14. 06:50 AM - Selling kitfox 5 (Hartin, John)
15. 06:53 AM - Fox With A Vair (Norm)
16. 06:54 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Fox5flyer)
17. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Fox5flyer)
18. 07:39 AM - Re: Fox With A Vair (Fox5flyer)
19. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: Tachometers. was Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
20. 07:56 AM - Re: Reunion (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
21. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Noel Loveys)
22. 08:21 AM - Fw: Tires for sale (Fox5flyer)
23. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Guy Buchanan)
24. 08:55 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Fox5flyer)
25. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Dave)
26. 11:19 AM - Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 (John King)
27. 11:29 AM - Re: Tires for sale (darinh)
28. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: Tires for sale (Clifford Begnaud)
29. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: Tires for sale (Fox5flyer)
30. 12:25 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor malcolm (Bradley M Webb)
31. 02:07 PM - Ignition Module (Jimmie Blackwell)
32. 02:24 PM - Ignition Module (Jimmie Blackwell)
33. 02:26 PM - Re: Ignition Module (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
34. 03:59 PM - Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 (kirk hull)
35. 04:09 PM - Re: Tires for sale (darinh)
36. 05:55 PM - Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 (wingsdown)
37. 05:59 PM - Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 (wingsdown)
38. 06:19 PM - Re: Ignition Module (Marwynne)
39. 06:27 PM - Emailing: Mail0001 (Clem Nichols)
40. 07:10 PM - Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 (kirk hull)
41. 07:39 PM - Re: Emailing: Mail0001 (Fox5flyer)
42. 07:45 PM - Re: Ignition Module (Rexster)
43. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Noel Loveys)
44. 08:03 PM - Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 (kirk hull)
45. 08:16 PM - Re two strokes (Rex Shaw)
46. 08:38 PM - Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor (Richard Rabbers)
47. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor malcolm (Noel Loveys)
48. 09:31 PM - Re: Model IV 1200 Dimensions (WBL)
49. 10:05 PM - Re: Re two strokes (QSS)
50. 10:51 PM - Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 (John Anderson)
51. 10:52 PM - Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 (John Anderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel level sensor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>The one from Murle Williams for $95 I think is a float switch in a
>small tank above the header tank. It should be a reasonable answer
>but I think bulkier as it won't fit above my header tank and still
>be behind the seat
>
>The Gemsensor can mount in the side of your header tank if you want
>to make a thread and hole for it or you can try what I'm doing and
>put it in a "T" piece.
Murle's sensor can be mounted in the tank as well. That's where mine
was mounted.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Bradley sez:
>If an opinion based on actual experience, research, and education is
>LESS important to you than a guy giving an UNEDUCATED and PATENTLY
>WRONG review of a product he has never actually touched...
Please read my comments more carefully before SHOUTING. You didn't
provide "experience", "research" or "education" Bradley, you called
someone an idiot. That's a personal attack that has no place on this
list. Name-calling often demonstrates that one has run out of solid
arguments.
>...I did my research, and found [the Geo] a suitable alternative,
>with distinct advantages. I would be glad to share the FACTS on
>that, but you've made it clear that you won't listen.
I have no problem listening to someone's experience and opinions
(call them "facts" if you will), it's the in-your-face attitude and
name-calling that I can do without. Remember the old saw that, "You
can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"? If you want
others to listen to your experienced, educated, research then you owe
it to others to listen to their comments as well and to respond in a
civil manner.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 541KF AW CERT |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Very nice Ron. Congratulations.
Keep us in the loop during your 40 hours.
Deke
> Got the pink slip in the mail today. My inspection was on the 4th of July
> and as expected he gave me a small list of fixes to do. After 13 dollars
> and a few more spells in the garage I sent an email with pics. Like an
> expectant papa I was afraid to see the response. It was a personal favor
to
> get the inspection and I'm sure he worries about us experimental types.
Now
> to get my taildragger endorsement in a borrowed Avid and it's Showtime!!!!
> Ron NB Ore 541KF MKIV Speedster 1915cc VW 1.6:1 redrive 72" Ivo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Bradley,
Thank you for the explanation of events leading up to the incident.
Now am I reading this correctly ? The starter drive did not dis-engage?
First indication should have been after applying WOT that 5400 that
something was not right .
I would only guess that at 5400 instead of the proper 6200 rpm on a 582 that
you would have only been getting about 45 to 50 hp instead of the 64 hp that
a 582 is supposed to put out.
25% less power on take off would be critical at gross in most aircraft.
So the Rotax engine was in fact not the culprit but the denzo starter gear ?
Also I will add that on the rear mounted starters on 582 it is imperative
that the starter be tightened to allow for a 1mm gap at starter housing (
about .040") as it is rubber mounted with a series of o-rings giving it the
shock absorption. Too tight and the read housing will fail and cost you over
300 $ for a new one. The Starter drive is also near 100$ .
Fortunately your fine piloting skills brought your plane back in one piece.
Another example of why it is important to make sure you are getting full
power on Takeoff.
Now let me throw in something else. Rotax Tachs. I recently put in a tiny
tach as I have heard that they are very accurate and perhaps more so than
the Rotax tach. Well Guess what, my tiny tach reads about 600 to 800 rpm
higher at WOT than does the Rotax tach. Could it be a problem in the gray
wire coil on the rotax or that Rotax tach or is the tiny tach accurate.?
Dave
PS -- I do wish you great success on your GEO install and am anxiously
awaiting to see some performance numbers.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:42 PM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
>
> Glad to provide my info...
>
> Remember that the motor ran fine. There was no seizure involved. On this
> takeoff, It didn't reach full rpm, maybe 5400 or so. By the time I
> realized
> what was wrong, the speed was high enough to rotate. My pilot instinct was
> to deal with the flying first, engine issue second. I made a very short
> pattern over an open field, reduced throttle as much as I dared, and came
> in
> to land. On the crosswind, the metal rubbing was burning oil driped on the
> case, and I thought I had a fire. There was, oddly enough, a bit of smoke
> in
> the cockpit, but I guessed it was exhaust, so I first thought the muffler
> broke away. Not so. I discovered the problem after removing the motor the
> next day.
>
> This motor had 430 hours on it, ~120 after rebuild. I flew 50 of those
> 120.
> I do not know who did it, but it ran ok. It vibrated tremendously, but I
> figured that was part of it, after asking around. I used the recommended
> Pennzoil oil, and after removal, the piston skirts looked fine. I did not
> want to disassemble it, as I don't think the problem migrated up to the
> crankcase.
>
> The failure was the starter gear at the back of the motor. I simply came
> apart, and started grinding the metal off of the inner case. It caught at
> the bottom, and broke out a piece about 4 inches by 3 inches. The crack
> started at the gear teeth, and moved to the center. Curiously, it was in
> between the mounting holes. I could not understand how it didn't fail at
> the
> holes, as this is the natural stress riser. I think the failure occur from
> the way the teeth were cut, or maybe damaged at some point in its life.
> The
> gear on the starter showed no sign of malicious contact, but...
>
> The NDT was done at the Air Force base where I work. There was no point in
> putting it through the flux machines, as the break was obvious.
>
> Bradley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:52 PM
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Bradley,
>
> Thanks for the update on the 582 failure.
>
> Can you helps us out on anything ?
> Whgat kind of oil wer you using ?
> Was there a cold seizure or overheating going on?
> How many hours - TT and since Major
> - who did major and what was replaced.
>
> What part failed ?
> Do you have pictures ?
> what Rotax shop did the NDT testing to evaluate this incident ?
>
> I realize that some get sour over certain topics but hey we all here to
> help
>
> each other learn from the problems of others.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:59 PM
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
>>
>> If an opinion based on actual experience, research, and education is LESS
>> important to you than a guy giving an UNEDUCATED and PATENTLY WRONG
>> review
>> of a product he has never actually touched (and from only looking at a
>> picture, no less), then I invite you to place me on your email snub list.
>> Go
>> for it. I will not stop calling it as I see it.
>>
>> My 582 failed on me. I gave it an honest shot, even though I was aware of
>> the potential for problems. IT FAILED! I would be glad to provide the
>> pictures of how it failed. There was nothing anyone could have done to
>> prevent it. A professional NDI technician said the only way for it to
>> fail
>> the way it did, was a manufacturing defect.
>>
>> Saying a 582 has "excellent durability" is like a car salesman saying
>> "Trust
>> me". Do you really believe that? I guess it could - IF you're rich enough
>> to
>> buy new cranks and jugs at every annual. But that wouldn't be enough.
>> Mine
>> ran great. And at 50 hours, it ate itself. With me in it. On takeoff.
>> Through no fault of mine.
>>
>> How's that for "excellent durability"?
>> Bradley
>>
>> P.S. I make no pretenses that the GEO is perfect. But I did my research,
>> and
>> found it a suitable alternative, with distinct advantages. I would be
>> glad
>> to share the FACTS on that, but you've made it clear that you won't
>> listen.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
>> Gibbs
>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:09 AM
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>>
>> Bradley sez:
>>
>>>The guy that wrote that about the Turbo 'fox is a blithering idiot...
>>
>> Can we have a break from the belligerent attitude, Bradley? You've
>> made your opinion on Rotax 2 strokes abundantly clear yet you now
>> feel the need to resort to personal attacks. It should be obvious by
>> now that not everyone shares your opinion--live with it.
>>
>> We know the Geo engine is the finest piece of engineering in the
>> history of mankind. We know that it produces more power than any
>> other engine and probably burbs up extra fuel in the process. We
>> know that if we go to the source of a product we'll always get an
>> unbiased view of that product's pros and cons. We even know that
>> there is no controversy at all regarding an engine's history in cars
>> as an indicator of how well it will perform in airplanes. We get it,
>> OK?
>>
>> Can we give it a rest?
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>>
>> Do not archive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 541KF AW CERT |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Ron , Congrats !!
I think you should have some good numbers with the Re-drive and that big
prop.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:34 PM
> Got the pink slip in the mail today. My inspection was on the 4th of July
> and as expected he gave me a small list of fixes to do. After 13 dollars
> and a few more spells in the garage I sent an email with pics. Like an
> expectant papa I was afraid to see the response. It was a personal favor
> to
> get the inspection and I'm sure he worries about us experimental types.
> Now
> to get my taildragger endorsement in a borrowed Avid and it's Showtime!!!!
> Ron NB Ore 541KF MKIV Speedster 1915cc VW 1.6:1 redrive 72" Ivo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Early 582 broken flywheel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Response to Bradley's post:
Back in about 1996, my first Kitfox, a M2 582 B-box (early 90s vintage), had
the very same problem, however there was no in-flight failure. Upon
startup, the engine locked up and wouldn't move. I couldn't even move the
prop. Thinking I'd broken a piston or perhaps a seizure, which made no
sense as I flew the airplane only a couple days previously with no sign of a
problem, I folded it up, hooked up the tow bar and hauled it down to the
shop for a look see. After removing the engine I found exactly what Bradley
experienced. However, fortunately mine never came completely apart. It was
still intact, but just barely and what locked up the engine was the starter
gear tooth had lodged in the crack which was 3/16 wide at its widest point.
It was very close to flying into pieces and at 6000rpm it could have been
catastrophic. I got lucky on that one. I called Jerry at Greensky
Adventures who told me that the early 582s were having this problem and that
there was a service letter about it. I never saw the letter, but ordered
the new flywheel and bolts. Comparing the new and old flywheels, the new
one was much thicker. After installing it I never had another problem.
The reason I'm replying to Bradley's post is to advise others that if they
have one of the very old 582s is to keep an eye on this part. The flywheel
is visible in the back and underside of the engine. Check the serial number
and see if it is within those in the service letter and if so, replace it
with the new model. Rotax Owners Association should be a good source for
the information necessary.
Other than that, the 582 gave me 400 hours of trouble-free service before I
sold it in 2000. Personally, I think it's a great engine and well suited
for the lighter Foxes. It DOES require some periodic tinkering to keep it
in peak performance.
Deke Morisse
S5
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:42 PM
snip...
> The failure was the starter gear at the back of the motor. I simply came
> apart, and started grinding the metal off of the inner case. It caught at
> the bottom, and broke out a piece about 4 inches by 3 inches. The crack
> started at the gear teeth, and moved to the center. Curiously, it was in
> between the mounting holes. I could not understand how it didn't fail at
the
> holes, as this is the natural stress riser. I think the failure occur from
> the way the teeth were cut, or maybe damaged at some point in its life.
The
> gear on the starter showed no sign of malicious contact, but...
...snip
Message 7
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| Subject: | Model IV 1200 Dimensions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Johannes Czernin" <jcz@chello.at>
Hi, Guy,
Unfortunately this drawing stems from more than 10 years back, the time when
I built my own Kitfox. I don't even know where I got it from, though I
remember it WAS a SkyStar original showing the views with wings extended. I
manually added the views with the wings folded. Then, as this was way before
digital photography, I produced copies in a photocopier. I have no idea how
I finally ended up with that *.JPG file - the only thing I can see from it
now is that it was produced in June 1998.
However, as I already mentioned in my first posting yesterday, I think I did
post it to the Sportflight Web site though I'm not even sure of that.
Hopefully Don Pearsall will chime in and tell us whether my drawing is still
hidden somewhere on his site.
Kind regards,
Johannes
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:23 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model IV 1200 Dimensions
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 10:45 AM 7/13/2006, you wrote:
> >Anyhow, since image files can be sent attached to postings these days
> >perhaps it would help if I mailed you a copy of the drawing right here.
>
> Johannes,
> That's a great drawing. If you have a high-resolution version
> would you be so kind as to post the highest resolution you can on
> Sportflight?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor malcolm |
Yea, I guess that I started this thing. I am still looking at that kit but
am not ready to jump into it at this time. I am a furloughed AA pilot and I
was looking for something that I could go flying with my son on the
weekends. It would have to be VERY cost effective because of the furloughed
thing. It was looking like I could have a complete flying airplane for
under 10K. Now I don't think that I would put my son in it without a new
engine. That about blows the 10K thing out of the water. I am in love with
the folding wings thing. Keep it in my garage and I have a friend about two
miles down the road with a 1800 grass strip, it dosen't get very much better
than that. So I will keep looking and hope something comes up. I want to
thank Al also. He hooked me up with this e-mail group and I am enjoying it
very much. Brian Smith.
_____
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Malcolmbru@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:40 PM
Can any body remember how this all started? I think a farley new guy asked
about a motor considering to buy an old kit. I wonder how this guy feels
about the question now. I think the correct answer to his question mite
be something like this a motor that old is not worth very much, almost all
the parts are available a lot of people are still flying them. a kit that
old is not worth a lot of money but almost everyone that fly's them really
like them. mal
Message 9
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| Subject: | broken push rod suberu ea81 |
These are not custom parts. I got the replacement from the auto parts
store. it looks just like the one that broke. however they are aluminum
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Anderson
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Yes Rick, mine are are much thinker too and non turbo are the same. It
does look like an after market item. John A.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:38:19 -0700
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Humm, that looks like an aluminum custom type. Is it? The stock ones, at
least on the turbo engine are steal, fat, real beefy. I don't have
experience with the non-turbo, maybe someone else can comment. I would
change to the tougher style, not good. Let me know.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:26 PM
sorry I must have forgotten to attach the photo so here it is
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:09 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I had an in flight failure last week of N205AK's Suberu ea81. She was
landed with no problems and everyone is ok. The push rod on the # 4
cylinder ( Front right)snaped. Attached is a picture of the part . it
made a clean break almost dead center on the rod completely in to. With
only 20 hrs on the engine and only 5 in flight this should not have
happened. Has anyone else seen this before and why did it happen? P.S.
it is a 100HP Stratus
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Model IV 1200 Dimensions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I think Don might currently be in Bonneville trying to set a world speed
record with his bike.
Be patient. He'll see the message and respond as soon as he can, I'm sure.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:40 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Johannes Czernin" <jcz@chello.at>
>
> Hi, Guy,
>
> Unfortunately this drawing stems from more than 10 years back, the time
when
> I built my own Kitfox. I don't even know where I got it from, though I
> remember it WAS a SkyStar original showing the views with wings extended.
I
> manually added the views with the wings folded. Then, as this was way
before
> digital photography, I produced copies in a photocopier. I have no idea
how
> I finally ended up with that *.JPG file - the only thing I can see from it
> now is that it was produced in June 1998.
>
> However, as I already mentioned in my first posting yesterday, I think I
did
> post it to the Sportflight Web site though I'm not even sure of that.
> Hopefully Don Pearsall will chime in and tell us whether my drawing is
still
> hidden somewhere on his site.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Johannes
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
> > Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:23 AM
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model IV 1200 Dimensions
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> >
> > At 10:45 AM 7/13/2006, you wrote:
> > >Anyhow, since image files can be sent attached to postings these days
> > >perhaps it would help if I mailed you a copy of the drawing right here.
> >
> > Johannes,
> > That's a great drawing. If you have a high-resolution version
> > would you be so kind as to post the highest resolution you can on
> > Sportflight?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Guy Buchanan
> > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | broken push rod suberu ea81 |
are you using an NSI and if so would you have a push rod handy to
photograph? Please don't remove one but if you have one just laying around
I would really like to see a pic.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Anderson
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Yes Rick, mine are are much thinker too and non turbo are the same. It
does look like an after market item. John A.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:38:19 -0700
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Humm, that looks like an aluminum custom type. Is it? The stock ones, at
least on the turbo engine are steal, fat, real beefy. I don't have
experience with the non-turbo, maybe someone else can comment. I would
change to the tougher style, not good. Let me know.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:26 PM
sorry I must have forgotten to attach the photo so here it is
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:09 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I had an in flight failure last week of N205AK's Suberu ea81. She was
landed with no problems and everyone is ok. The push rod on the # 4
cylinder ( Front right)snaped. Attached is a picture of the part . it
made a clean break almost dead center on the rod completely in to. With
only 20 hrs on the engine and only 5 in flight this should not have
happened. Has anyone else seen this before and why did it happen? P.S.
it is a 100HP Stratus
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
This is a very timely posting for me. Just a couple of days ago after
flying a Rans S14 I keep at home, I noticed a crack at the top of the
housing where the starter motor is mounted at the rear of my grey-head 582.
Other than obviously replacing this housing, what else do I need to do. One
of the other listers mentioned something about a heavier fly wheel, and Guy
mentions a service bulletin or letter regarding what I assume is the same
issue. Any info/recommendations will be appreciated.
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:43 PM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 07:42 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote:
>>The failure was the starter gear at the back of the motor. I simply came
>>apart, and started grinding the metal off of the inner case.
>
> Bradley,
> Thanks so much for putting this out, and suffering the flack.
> There is a Rotax Service Bulletin or Letter on just this issue. I was
> going to skip it, but now I guess I won't.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Dave, I can't speak for the tach used on the 582, but the accuracy of the
Rotax tach for the 912 will vary due to ambient temps. I have gotten in the
habit of carrying an optical tach which measures prop RPM. I made up a
conversion chart to engine RPM for ease of use. On the back of the tach I
put a knob that can be used to key into the adjustment pot.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:40 AM
> Now let me throw in something else. Rotax Tachs. I recently put in a tiny
> tach as I have heard that they are very accurate and perhaps more so than
> the Rotax tach. Well Guess what, my tiny tach reads about 600 to 800 rpm
> higher at WOT than does the Rotax tach. Could it be a problem in the gray
> wire coil on the rotax or that Rotax tach or is the tiny tach accurate.?
>
>
> Dave
>
> PS -- I do wish you great success on your GEO install and am anxiously
> awaiting to see some performance numbers.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:42 PM
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
>>
>> Glad to provide my info...
>>
>> Remember that the motor ran fine. There was no seizure involved. On this
>> takeoff, It didn't reach full rpm, maybe 5400 or so. By the time I
>> realized
>> what was wrong, the speed was high enough to rotate. My pilot instinct
>> was
>> to deal with the flying first, engine issue second. I made a very short
>> pattern over an open field, reduced throttle as much as I dared, and came
>> in
>> to land. On the crosswind, the metal rubbing was burning oil driped on
>> the
>> case, and I thought I had a fire. There was, oddly enough, a bit of smoke
>> in
>> the cockpit, but I guessed it was exhaust, so I first thought the muffler
>> broke away. Not so. I discovered the problem after removing the motor the
>> next day.
>>
>> This motor had 430 hours on it, ~120 after rebuild. I flew 50 of those
>> 120.
>> I do not know who did it, but it ran ok. It vibrated tremendously, but I
>> figured that was part of it, after asking around. I used the recommended
>> Pennzoil oil, and after removal, the piston skirts looked fine. I did not
>> want to disassemble it, as I don't think the problem migrated up to the
>> crankcase.
>>
>> The failure was the starter gear at the back of the motor. I simply came
>> apart, and started grinding the metal off of the inner case. It caught at
>> the bottom, and broke out a piece about 4 inches by 3 inches. The crack
>> started at the gear teeth, and moved to the center. Curiously, it was in
>> between the mounting holes. I could not understand how it didn't fail at
>> the
>> holes, as this is the natural stress riser. I think the failure occur
>> from
>> the way the teeth were cut, or maybe damaged at some point in its life.
>> The
>> gear on the starter showed no sign of malicious contact, but...
>>
>> The NDT was done at the Air Force base where I work. There was no point
>> in
>> putting it through the flux machines, as the break was obvious.
>>
>> Bradley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:52 PM
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>
>> Bradley,
>>
>> Thanks for the update on the 582 failure.
>>
>> Can you helps us out on anything ?
>> Whgat kind of oil wer you using ?
>> Was there a cold seizure or overheating going on?
>> How many hours - TT and since Major
>> - who did major and what was replaced.
>>
>> What part failed ?
>> Do you have pictures ?
>> what Rotax shop did the NDT testing to evaluate this incident ?
>>
>> I realize that some get sour over certain topics but hey we all here to
>> help
>>
>> each other learn from the problems of others.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:59 PM
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
>>>
>>> If an opinion based on actual experience, research, and education is
>>> LESS
>>> important to you than a guy giving an UNEDUCATED and PATENTLY WRONG
>>> review
>>> of a product he has never actually touched (and from only looking at a
>>> picture, no less), then I invite you to place me on your email snub
>>> list.
>>> Go
>>> for it. I will not stop calling it as I see it.
>>>
>>> My 582 failed on me. I gave it an honest shot, even though I was aware
>>> of
>>> the potential for problems. IT FAILED! I would be glad to provide the
>>> pictures of how it failed. There was nothing anyone could have done to
>>> prevent it. A professional NDI technician said the only way for it to
>>> fail
>>> the way it did, was a manufacturing defect.
>>>
>>> Saying a 582 has "excellent durability" is like a car salesman saying
>>> "Trust
>>> me". Do you really believe that? I guess it could - IF you're rich
>>> enough
>>> to
>>> buy new cranks and jugs at every annual. But that wouldn't be enough.
>>> Mine
>>> ran great. And at 50 hours, it ate itself. With me in it. On takeoff.
>>> Through no fault of mine.
>>>
>>> How's that for "excellent durability"?
>>> Bradley
>>>
>>> P.S. I make no pretenses that the GEO is perfect. But I did my research,
>>> and
>>> found it a suitable alternative, with distinct advantages. I would be
>>> glad
>>> to share the FACTS on that, but you've made it clear that you won't
>>> listen.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Gibbs
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:09 AM
>>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>>>
>>> Bradley sez:
>>>
>>>>The guy that wrote that about the Turbo 'fox is a blithering idiot...
>>>
>>> Can we have a break from the belligerent attitude, Bradley? You've
>>> made your opinion on Rotax 2 strokes abundantly clear yet you now
>>> feel the need to resort to personal attacks. It should be obvious by
>>> now that not everyone shares your opinion--live with it.
>>>
>>> We know the Geo engine is the finest piece of engineering in the
>>> history of mankind. We know that it produces more power than any
>>> other engine and probably burbs up extra fuel in the process. We
>>> know that if we go to the source of a product we'll always get an
>>> unbiased view of that product's pros and cons. We even know that
>>> there is no controversy at all regarding an engine's history in cars
>>> as an indicator of how well it will perform in airplanes. We get it,
>>> OK?
>>>
>>> Can we give it a rest?
>>>
>>> Mike G.
>>> N728KF
>>>
>>> Do not archive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Selling kitfox 5 |
Kf 5 w/240 hrs nsi e81 engine ready to go for $30,800 pictures available
on request.
john
--------------------------------------------------------
Important Notice to Recipients:
It is important that you do not use e-mail to request, authorize or
effect the purchase or sale of any security or commodity, to send fund
transfer instructions, or to effect any other transactions. Any such
request, orders, or instructions that you send will not be accepted and
will not be processed by Morgan Stanley.
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm <nebchmp@wcc.net>
Some of you may have noticed that after a post on the starting of my
Corvair engine there has been nothing but silence. Needless to say I
ran into a minor problem on my first attempt at a take off. I aborted,
and found the problem. The problem was not with the engine but with the
builders LOE. (Lack Of Experience) But with experience comes
knowledge. The whole story could get boring to some as I'm not adapt
at technical writing so lets just say I fixed it. I have ran the engine
twice in this passed week and I'm pleased with the results. I was able
to get 2830 rpms with all gauges in the green.
My goal is to get the 40 hrs and make it to Copper State. I will admit
to not making several goals, but this is doable. Later Norm.
PS Don P., you -will- get a picture.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Clem, it's difficult to see up in there without removing the engine and
starter housing. If it's an old 582, I'd be very eager to at least check it
out. The replacement wasn't very expensive.
Like I said, check the Rotax owners associating web site for the bulletin.
http://www.rotax-owner.com/index.htm It should be in there someplace.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:34 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> This is a very timely posting for me. Just a couple of days ago after
> flying a Rans S14 I keep at home, I noticed a crack at the top of the
> housing where the starter motor is mounted at the rear of my grey-head
582.
> Other than obviously replacing this housing, what else do I need to do.
One
> of the other listers mentioned something about a heavier fly wheel, and
Guy
> mentions a service bulletin or letter regarding what I assume is the same
> issue. Any info/recommendations will be appreciated.
>
> Clem Nichols
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:43 PM
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> >
> > At 07:42 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote:
> >>The failure was the starter gear at the back of the motor. I simply came
> >>apart, and started grinding the metal off of the inner case.
> >
> > Bradley,
> > Thanks so much for putting this out, and suffering the flack.
> > There is a Rotax Service Bulletin or Letter on just this issue. I was
> > going to skip it, but now I guess I won't.
> >
> >
> > Guy Buchanan
> > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> > http://wiki.matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Try http://www.rotax-owner.com/sdocs.htm
SI-04-1990
Deke
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:34 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> This is a very timely posting for me. Just a couple of days ago after
> flying a Rans S14 I keep at home, I noticed a crack at the top of the
> housing where the starter motor is mounted at the rear of my grey-head
582.
> Other than obviously replacing this housing, what else do I need to do.
One
> of the other listers mentioned something about a heavier fly wheel, and
Guy
> mentions a service bulletin or letter regarding what I assume is the same
> issue. Any info/recommendations will be appreciated.
>
> Clem Nichols
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:43 PM
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> >
> > At 07:42 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote:
> >>The failure was the starter gear at the back of the motor. I simply came
> >>apart, and started grinding the metal off of the inner case.
> >
> > Bradley,
> > Thanks so much for putting this out, and suffering the flack.
> > There is a Rotax Service Bulletin or Letter on just this issue. I was
> > going to skip it, but now I guess I won't.
> >
> >
> > Guy Buchanan
> > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> > http://wiki.matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fox With A Vair |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Good to hear Norm. Keep us posted.
Below is a web site by a guy who has gone through the trials with his
Corvair/KR2. Lots of good Corvair info in there.
Deke
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:52 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm <nebchmp@wcc.net>
>
> Some of you may have noticed that after a post on the starting of my
> Corvair engine there has been nothing but silence. Needless to say I
> ran into a minor problem on my first attempt at a take off. I aborted,
> and found the problem. The problem was not with the engine but with the
> builders LOE. (Lack Of Experience) But with experience comes
> knowledge. The whole story could get boring to some as I'm not adapt
> at technical writing so lets just say I fixed it. I have ran the engine
> twice in this passed week and I'm pleased with the results. I was able
> to get 2830 rpms with all gauges in the green.
> My goal is to get the 40 hrs and make it to Copper State. I will admit
> to not making several goals, but this is doable. Later Norm.
>
> PS Don P., you -will- get a picture.
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tachometers. was Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
Dave, the tach that came with my 912/Classic IV as a tendancy to "drift". For
the past year I have been concerned that I was loosing power with only 700+ hours.
I could not get 5200 rpm on take off and was left with reducing pitch.
As part of the most recent condition inspection I check rpm against an optical
tach, which is easily tested with an incandescent bulb, and found that the tach
was reading about 400 rpm low. I recalibrated the tach with a small nylon screw
driver from the rear and returned the pitch to the 17* used since the beginning
flights.
Recent experience and posts on this list confirm that most of our problems with
out equipment are pilot/maintenance induced:
1. incorrectly gapped plugs
2.wiring not protected from vibration
3.prop hubs over torqued.
4.starter attachment not per specs
5.after market component failure
6.carburator not adjusted per specs
7.redesigned fuel system
8.etc
Home builders are sometimes "cowboys" that are trying to avoid the "overbearing"
regulatory confines of certified a/c operation. One reason there are fewer
failures in certified airplanes is the regulator confines that provide an accurate
check on our rides. But then there are the certified a/c owners who seek
out soft a/ps to get there annual "paper-whipped" in case of a ramp check.
I guess my philosophy of "flying to support my building habit" might offer a page
to everyone in experimental airplanes. If you don't love the process of checking
all the adjustments/torques repeatedly your experience may not be as rewarding
as hoped.
John Kerr
"I have been on a soap box in Hyde Park too"
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave"
>
> Bradley,
>
> Thank you for the explanation of events leading up to the incident.
>
> Now am I reading this correctly ? The starter drive did not dis-engage?
> First indication should have been after applying WOT that 5400 that
> something was not right .
> I would only guess that at 5400 instead of the proper 6200 rpm on a 582 that
> you would have only been getting about 45 to 50 hp instead of the 64 hp that
> a 582 is supposed to put out.
> 25% less power on take off would be critical at gross in most aircraft.
>
> So the Rotax engine was in fact not the culprit but the denzo starter gear ?
> Also I will add that on the rear mounted starters on 582 it is imperative
> that the starter be tightened to allow for a 1mm gap at starter housing (
> about .040") as it is rubber mounted with a series of o-rings giving it the
> shock absorption. Too tight and the read housing will fail and cost you over
> 300 $ for a new one. The Starter drive is also near 100$ .
>
> Fortunately your fine piloting skills brought your plane back in one piece.
> Another example of why it is important to make sure you are getting full
> power on Takeoff.
>
> Now let me throw in something else. Rotax Tachs. I recently put in a tiny
> tach as I have heard that they are very accurate and perhaps more so than
> the Rotax tach. Well Guess what, my tiny tach reads about 600 to 800 rpm
> higher at WOT than does the Rotax tach. Could it be a problem in the gray
> wire coil on the rotax or that Rotax tach or is the tiny tach accurate.?
>
>
> Dave
>
> PS -- I do wish you great success on your GEO install and am anxiously
> awaiting to see some performance numbers.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:42 PM
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
> >
> > Glad to provide my info...
> >
> > Remember that the motor ran fine. There was no seizure involved. On this
> > takeoff, It didn't reach full rpm, maybe 5400 or so. By the time I
> > realized
> > what was wrong, the speed was high enough to rotate. My pilot instinct was
> > to deal with the flying first, engine issue second. I made a very short
> > pattern over an open field, reduced throttle as much as I dared, and came
> > in
> > to land. On the crosswind, the metal rubbing was burning oil driped on the
> > case, and I thought I had a fire. There was, oddly enough, a bit of smoke
> > in
> > the cockpit, but I guessed it was exhaust, so I first thought the muffler
> > broke away. Not so. I discovered the problem after removing the motor the
> > next day.
> >
> > This motor had 430 hours on it, ~120 after rebuild. I flew 50 of those
> > 120.
> > I do not know who did it, but it ran ok. It vibrated tremendously, but I
> > figured that was part of it, after asking around. I used the recommended
> > Pennzoil oil, and after removal, the piston skirts looked fine. I did not
> > want to disassemble it, as I don't think the problem migrated up to the
> > crankcase.
> >
> > The failure was the starter gear at the back of the motor. I simply came
> > apart, and started grinding the metal off of the inner case. It caught at
> > the bottom, and broke out a piece about 4 inches by 3 inches. The crack
> > started at the gear teeth, and moved to the center. Curiously, it was in
> > between the mounting holes. I could not understand how it didn't fail at
> > the
> > holes, as this is the natural stress riser. I think the failure occur from
> > the way the teeth were cut, or maybe damaged at some point in its life.
> > The
> > gear on the starter showed no sign of malicious contact, but...
> >
> > The NDT was done at the Air Force base where I work. There was no point in
> > putting it through the flux machines, as the break was obvious.
> >
> > Bradley
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
> > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:52 PM
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave"
> >
> > Bradley,
> >
> > Thanks for the update on the 582 failure.
> >
> > Can you helps us out on anything ?
> > Whgat kind of oil wer you using ?
> > Was there a cold seizure or overheating going on?
> > How many hours - TT and since Major
> > - who did major and what was replaced.
> >
> > What part failed ?
> > Do you have pictures ?
> > what Rotax shop did the NDT testing to evaluate this incident ?
> >
> > I realize that some get sour over certain topics but hey we all here to
> > help
> >
> > each other learn from the problems of others.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:59 PM
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
> >>
> >> If an opinion based on actual experience, research, and education is LESS
> >> important to you than a guy giving an UNEDUCATED and PATENTLY WRONG
> >> review
> >> of a product he has never actually touched (and from only looking at a
> >> picture, no less), then I invite you to place me on your email snub list.
> >> Go
> >> for it. I will not stop calling it as I see it.
> >>
> >> My 582 failed on me. I gave it an honest shot, even though I was aware of
> >> the potential for problems. IT FAILED! I would be glad to provide the
> >> pictures of how it failed. There was nothing anyone could have done to
> >> prevent it. A professional NDI technician said the only way for it to
> >> fail
> >> the way it did, was a manufacturing defect.
> >>
> >> Saying a 582 has "excellent durability" is like a car salesman saying
> >> "Trust
> >> me". Do you really believe that? I guess it could - IF you're rich enough
> >> to
> >> buy new cranks and jugs at every annual. But that wouldn't be enough.
> >> Mine
> >> ran great. And at 50 hours, it ate itself. With me in it. On takeoff.
> >> Through no fault of mine.
> >>
> >> How's that for "excellent durability"?
> >> Bradley
> >>
> >> P.S. I make no pretenses that the GEO is perfect. But I did my research,
> >> and
> >> found it a suitable alternative, with distinct advantages. I would be
> >> glad
> >> to share the FACTS on that, but you've made it clear that you won't
> >> listen.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> >> Gibbs
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:09 AM
> >>
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs
> >>
> >> Bradley sez:
> >>
> >>>The guy that wrote that about the Turbo 'fox is a blithering idiot...
> >>
> >> Can we have a break from the belligerent attitude, Bradley? You've
> >> made your opinion on Rotax 2 strokes abundantly clear yet you now
> >> feel the need to resort to personal attacks. It should be obvious by
> >> now that not everyone shares your opinion--live with it.
> >>
> >> We know the Geo engine is the finest piece of engineering in the
> >> history of mankind. We know that it produces more power than any
> >> other engine and probably burbs up extra fuel in the process. We
> >> know that if we go to the source of a product we'll always get an
> >> unbiased view of that product's pros and cons. We even know that
> >> there is no controversy at all regarding an engine's history in cars
> >> as an indicator of how well it will perform in airplanes. We get it,
> >> OK?
> >>
> >> Can we give it a rest?
> >>
> >> Mike G.
> >> N728KF
> >>
> >> Do not archive.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Dave, the tach that came with my 912/Classic IV as a tendancy to "drift".
For the past year I have been concerned that I was loosing power with only
700+ hours. I could not get 5200 rpm on take off and was left with reducing
pitch. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As part of the most recent condition inspection I check rpm against an optical
tach, which is easily tested with an incandescent bulb, and found that the
tach was reading about 400 rpm low. I recalibrated the tach with a small
nylon screw driver from the rear and returned the pitch to the 17* used since
the beginning flights.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Recent experience and posts on this list confirm that most of our problems
with out equipment are pilot/maintenance induced:</DIV>
<DIV>1. incorrectly gapped plugs</DIV>
<DIV>2.wiring not protected from vibration</DIV>
<DIV>3.prop hubs over torqued.</DIV>
<DIV>4.starter attachment not per specs</DIV>
<DIV>5.after market component failure</DIV>
<DIV>6.carburator not adjusted per specs</DIV>
<DIV>7.redesigned fuel system</DIV>
<DIV>8.etc</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Home builders are sometimes "cowboys" that are trying to avoid the "overbearing"
regulatory confines of certified a/c operation. One reason there
are fewer failures in certified airplanes is the regulator confines that provide
an accurate check on our rides. But then there are the certified a/c
owners who seek out soft a/ps to get there annual "paper-whipped" in case of a
ramp check.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I guess my philosophy of "flying to support my building habit" might offer
a page to everyone in experimental airplanes. If you don't love the process
of checking all the adjustments/torques repeatedly your experience may not
be as rewarding as hoped.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>"I have been on a soap box in Hyde Park too"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
<BR><BR>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave"
<DAVE@CFISHER.COM><BR>> <BR>> Bradley, <BR>> <BR>> Thank you for the
explanation of events leading up to the incident. <BR>> <BR>> Now am
I reading this correctly ? The starter drive did not dis-engage? <BR>> First
indication should have been after applying WOT that 5400 that <BR>> something
was not right . <BR>> I would only guess that at 5400 instead of the proper
6200 rpm on a 582 that <BR>> you would have only been getting about 45
to 50 hp instead of the 64 hp that <BR>> a 582 is supposed to put out. <BR>>
25% less power on take off would be critical at gross in most aircraft.
<BR>> <BR>> So the Rotax engine was in fact not the culprit but the denzo
starter gear ? <BR>> Also I will add that on th
e rear
mounted starters on 582 it is imperative <BR>> that the starter be tightened
to allow for a 1mm gap at starter housing ( <BR>> about .040") as it is rubber
mounted with a series of o-rings giving it the <BR>> shock absorption.
Too tight and the read housing will fail and cost you over <BR>> 300 $ for
a new one. The Starter drive is also near 100$ . <BR>> <BR>> Fortunately
your fine piloting skills brought your plane back in one piece. <BR>> Another
example of why it is important to make sure you are getting full <BR>>
power on Takeoff. <BR>> <BR>> Now let me throw in something else. Rotax
Tachs. I recently put in a tiny <BR>> tach as I have heard that they are
very accurate and perhaps more so than <BR>> the Rotax tach. Well Guess what,
my tiny tach reads about 600 to 800 rpm <BR>> higher at WOT than does the
Rotax tach. Could it be a problem in the gray <BR>> wire coil on the rotax
or that Rotax tach or is the tiny tach accurate.? <
BR>>
; <BR>> <BR>> Dave <BR>> <BR>> PS -- I do wish you great success on
your GEO install and am anxiously <BR>> awaiting to see some performance numbers.
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> Sent:
Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:42 PM <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > --> Kitfox-List
message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <BMWEBB@COX.NET><BR>> > <BR>>
> Glad to provide my info... <BR>> > <BR>> > Remember that
the motor ran fine. There was no seizure involved. On this <BR>> > takeoff,
It didn't reach full rpm, maybe 5400 or so. By the time I <BR>> > realized
<BR>> > what was wrong, the speed was high enough to rotate. My pilot
instinct was <BR>> > to deal with the flying first, engine issue second.
I made a very short <BR>> > pattern over an open field, reduced throttle
as much as I dared, and came <BR>> > in <BR>> > to land. On
the crosswind, the metal rubbing was burning oil dri
ped on
the <BR>> > case, and I thought I had a fire. There was, oddly enough, a
bit of smoke <BR>> > in <BR>> > the cockpit, but I guessed it was
exhaust, so I first thought the muffler <BR>> > broke away. Not so. I discovered
the problem after removing the motor the <BR>> > next day. <BR>>
> <BR>> > This motor had 430 hours on it, ~120 after rebuild. I
flew 50 of those <BR>> > 120. <BR>> > I do not know who did it, but
it ran ok. It vibrated tremendously, but I <BR>> > figured that was part
of it, after asking around. I used the recommended <BR>> > Pennzoil
oil, and after removal, the piston skirts looked fine. I did not <BR>> >
want to disassemble it, as I don't think the problem migrated up to the <BR>>
> crankcase. <BR>> > <BR>> > The failure was the starter gear
at the back of the motor. I simply came <BR>> > apart, and started grinding
the metal off of the inner case. It caught at
<BR>&g
t; > the bottom, and broke out a piece about 4 inches by 3 inches. The crack <BR>> > started at the gear teeth, and moved to the center. Curiously, it was in <BR>> > between the mounting holes. I could not understand how it didn't fail at <BR>> > the <BR>> > holes, as this is the natural stress riser. I think the failure occur from <BR>> > the way the teeth were cut, or maybe damaged at some point in its life. <BR>> > The <BR>> > gear on the starter showed no sign of malicious contact, but... <BR>> > <BR>> > The NDT was done at the Air Force base where I work. There was no point in <BR>> > putting it through the flux machines, as the break was obvious. <BR>> > <BR>> > Bradley <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave <BR>> > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:52 PM <BR>> > <BR>> > --> Kitfox-L
ist me
ssage posted by: "Dave" <DAVE@CFISHER.COM><BR>> > <BR>> > Bradley,
<BR>> > <BR>> > Thanks for the update on the 582 failure. <BR>>
> <BR>> > Can you helps us out on anything ? <BR>> > Whgat kind
of oil wer you using ? <BR>> > Was there a cold seizure or overheating
going on? <BR>> > How many hours - TT and since Major <BR>> > - who
did major and what was replaced. <BR>> > <BR>> > What part failed
? <BR>> > Do you have pictures ? <BR>> > what Rotax shop did the
NDT testing to evaluate this incident ? <BR>> > <BR>> > I realize
that some get sour over certain topics but hey we all here to <BR>> >
help <BR>> > <BR>> > each other learn from the problems of others.
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Best regards, <BR>> > <BR>>
> <BR>> > Dave <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> > Sent: Thursday, July
13, 2
006 7:59 PM <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >> --> Kitfox-List message
posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <BMWEBB@COX.NET><BR>> >> <BR>> >>
If an opinion based on actual experience, research, and education is LESS
<BR>> >> important to you than a guy giving an UNEDUCATED and PATENTLY
WRONG <BR>> >> review <BR>> >> of a product he has never
actually touched (and from only looking at a <BR>> >> picture, no
less), then I invite you to place me on your email snub list. <BR>> >>
Go <BR>> >> for it. I will not stop calling it as I see it. <BR>>
>> <BR>> >> My 582 failed on me. I gave it an honest shot, even
though I was aware of <BR>> >> the potential for problems. IT FAILED!
I would be glad to provide the <BR>> >> pictures of how it failed.
There was nothing anyone could have done to <BR>> >> prevent it. A
professional NDI technician said the only way for it
to <BR
>> >> fail <BR>> >> the way it did, was a manufacturing defect.
<BR>> >> <BR>> >> Saying a 582 has "excellent durability"
is like a car salesman saying <BR>> >> "Trust <BR>> >> me".
Do you really believe that? I guess it could - IF you're rich enough <BR>>
>> to <BR>> >> buy new cranks and jugs at every annual. But that
wouldn't be enough. <BR>> >> Mine <BR>> >> ran great. And
at 50 hours, it ate itself. With me in it. On takeoff. <BR>> >> Through
no fault of mine. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> How's that for "excellent
durability"? <BR>> >> Bradley <BR>> >> <BR>> >>
P.S. I make no pretenses that the GEO is perfect. But I did my research, <BR>>
>> and <BR>> >> found it a suitable alternative, with distinct
advantages. I would be <BR>> >> glad <BR>> >> to share
the FACTS on that, but you've made it clear that yo
u won'
t <BR>> >> listen. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> -----Original Message----- <BR>> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael <BR>> >> Gibbs <BR>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:09 AM <BR>> >> <BR>> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MICHAELGIBBS@COX.NET><BR>> >> <BR>> >> Bradley sez: <BR>> >> <BR>> >>>The guy that wrote that about the Turbo 'fox is a blithering idiot... <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Can we have a break from the belligerent attitude, Bradley? You've <BR>> >> made your opinion on Rotax 2 strokes abundantly clear yet you now <BR>> >> feel the need to resort to personal attacks. It should be obvious by <BR>> >> now that not everyone shares your opinion--live with it. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> We know the Geo engine is the finest piece of engineering in the <BR>> >&
gt; hi
story of mankind. We know that it produces more power than any <BR>> >>
other engine and probably burbs up extra fuel in the process. We <BR>> >>
know that if we go to the source of a product we'll always get an <BR>>
>> unbiased view of that product's pros and cons. We even know that
<BR>> >> there is no controversy at all regarding an engine's history
in cars <BR>> >> as an indicator of how well it will perform in airplanes.
We get it, <BR>> >> OK? <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Can
we give it a rest? <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Mike G. <BR>> >>
N728KF <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Do not archive. <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>>
>> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>>
>> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >
> <
p://ww
Message 20
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|
Johannes, It has been a welcome reunion of sorts to read your posts again. They
have lead me back to the mid 90's when we were test flying of sibling 'foxes,
along with John King. As I recall we all had serial numbers from about the
same period.
John Kerr
N195KF, Classic IV/912ul, 738 hours as of yesterday.
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Johannes Czernin"
>
> Hi, Guy,
>
> Unfortunately this drawing stems from more than 10 years back, the time when
> I built my own Kitfox. I don't even know where I got it from, though I
> remember it WAS a SkyStar original showing the views with wings extended. I
> manually added the views with the wings folded. Then, as this was way before
> digital photography, I produced copies in a photocopier. I have no idea how
> I finally ended up with that *.JPG file - the only thing I can see from it
> now is that it was produced in June 1998.
>
> However, as I already mentioned in my first posting yesterday, I think I did
> post it to the Sportflight Web site though I'm not even sure of that.
> Hopefully Don Pearsall will chime in and tell us whether my drawing is still
> hidden somewhere on his site.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Johannes
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
> > Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:23 AM
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model IV 1200 Dimensions
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan
> >
> > At 10:45 AM 7/13/2006, you wrote:
> > >Anyhow, since image files can be sent attached to postings these days
> > >perhaps it would help if I mailed you a copy of the drawing right here.
> >
> > Johannes,
> > That's a great drawing. If you have a high-resolution version
> > would you be so kind as to post the highest resolution you can on
> > Sportflight?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Guy Buchanan
> > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Johannes, It has been a welcome reunion of sorts to read your posts
again. They have lead me back to the mid 90's when we were test flying of
sibling 'foxes, along with John King. As I recall we all had serial numbers
from about the same period.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>N195KF, Classic IV/912ul, 738 hours as of yesterday.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Johannes Czernin"
<jcz@chello.at> <BR><BR>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
"Johannes Czernin" <JCZ@CHELLO.AT><BR>> <BR>> Hi, Guy, <BR>> <BR>>
Unfortunately this drawing stems from more than 10 years back, the time when
<BR>> I built my own Kitfox. I don't even know where I got it from, though
I <BR>> remember it WAS a SkyStar original showing the views with wings extended.
I <BR>> manually added the views with the wings folded. Then, as this
was way before <BR>> digital photography, I produced copies in a photocopier.
I have no idea how <BR>> I finally ended up with that *.JPG file - the
only thing I can see from it <BR>> now is that it was produced in June 1998.
<BR>> <BR>> However, as I already mentioned in my first posting yesterday,
I think I did <BR>> post it to the Sportfl
ight W
eb site though I'm not even sure of that. <BR>> Hopefully Don Pearsall will chime in and tell us whether my drawing is still <BR>> hidden somewhere on his site. <BR>> <BR>> Kind regards, <BR>> <BR>> Johannes <BR>> <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com <BR>> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan <BR>> > Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:23 AM <BR>> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com <BR>> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model IV 1200 Dimensions <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <BNN@NETHERE.COM><BR>> > <BR>> > At 10:45 AM 7/13/2006, you wrote: <BR>> > >Anyhow, since image files can be sent attached to postings these days <BR>> > >perhaps it would help if I mailed you a copy of the drawing right here. <BR>> > <BR>> > Johannes, <BR>> > That's
a grea
-= --&
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I bought a tiny tach ... No moving parts. Operates on impulses form the
plug wires. Also acts as a timer.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lowell Fitt
> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:15 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Dave, I can't speak for the tach used on the 582, but the
> accuracy of the
> Rotax tach for the 912 will vary due to ambient temps. I
> have gotten in the
> habit of carrying an optical tach which measures prop RPM. I
> made up a
> conversion chart to engine RPM for ease of use. On the back
> of the tach I
> put a knob that can be used to key into the adjustment pot.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:40 AM
>
>
> > Now let me throw in something else. Rotax Tachs. I
> recently put in a tiny
> > tach as I have heard that they are very accurate and
> perhaps more so than
> > the Rotax tach. Well Guess what, my tiny tach reads about
> 600 to 800 rpm
> > higher at WOT than does the Rotax tach. Could it be a
> problem in the gray
> > wire coil on the rotax or that Rotax tach or is the tiny
> tach accurate.?
> >
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > PS -- I do wish you great success on your GEO install and
> am anxiously
> > awaiting to see some performance numbers.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:42 PM
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
> <bmwebb@cox.net>
> >>
> >> Glad to provide my info...
> >>
> >> Remember that the motor ran fine. There was no seizure
> involved. On this
> >> takeoff, It didn't reach full rpm, maybe 5400 or so. By the time I
> >> realized
> >> what was wrong, the speed was high enough to rotate. My
> pilot instinct
> >> was
> >> to deal with the flying first, engine issue second. I made
> a very short
> >> pattern over an open field, reduced throttle as much as I
> dared, and came
> >> in
> >> to land. On the crosswind, the metal rubbing was burning
> oil driped on
> >> the
> >> case, and I thought I had a fire. There was, oddly enough,
> a bit of smoke
> >> in
> >> the cockpit, but I guessed it was exhaust, so I first
> thought the muffler
> >> broke away. Not so. I discovered the problem after
> removing the motor the
> >> next day.
> >>
> >> This motor had 430 hours on it, ~120 after rebuild. I flew
> 50 of those
> >> 120.
> >> I do not know who did it, but it ran ok. It vibrated
> tremendously, but I
> >> figured that was part of it, after asking around. I used
> the recommended
> >> Pennzoil oil, and after removal, the piston skirts looked
> fine. I did not
> >> want to disassemble it, as I don't think the problem
> migrated up to the
> >> crankcase.
> >>
> >> The failure was the starter gear at the back of the motor.
> I simply came
> >> apart, and started grinding the metal off of the inner
> case. It caught at
> >> the bottom, and broke out a piece about 4 inches by 3
> inches. The crack
> >> started at the gear teeth, and moved to the center.
> Curiously, it was in
> >> between the mounting holes. I could not understand how it
> didn't fail at
> >> the
> >> holes, as this is the natural stress riser. I think the
> failure occur
> >> from
> >> the way the teeth were cut, or maybe damaged at some point
> in its life.
> >> The
> >> gear on the starter showed no sign of malicious contact, but...
> >>
> >> The NDT was done at the Air Force base where I work. There
> was no point
> >> in
> >> putting it through the flux machines, as the break was obvious.
> >>
> >> Bradley
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:52 PM
> >>
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> >>
> >> Bradley,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the update on the 582 failure.
> >>
> >> Can you helps us out on anything ?
> >> Whgat kind of oil wer you using ?
> >> Was there a cold seizure or overheating going on?
> >> How many hours - TT and since Major
> >> - who did major and what was replaced.
> >>
> >> What part failed ?
> >> Do you have pictures ?
> >> what Rotax shop did the NDT testing to evaluate this incident ?
> >>
> >> I realize that some get sour over certain topics but hey
> we all here to
> >> help
> >>
> >> each other learn from the problems of others.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:59 PM
> >>
> >>
> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
> <bmwebb@cox.net>
> >>>
> >>> If an opinion based on actual experience, research, and
> education is
> >>> LESS
> >>> important to you than a guy giving an UNEDUCATED and
> PATENTLY WRONG
> >>> review
> >>> of a product he has never actually touched (and from only
> looking at a
> >>> picture, no less), then I invite you to place me on your
> email snub
> >>> list.
> >>> Go
> >>> for it. I will not stop calling it as I see it.
> >>>
> >>> My 582 failed on me. I gave it an honest shot, even
> though I was aware
> >>> of
> >>> the potential for problems. IT FAILED! I would be glad to
> provide the
> >>> pictures of how it failed. There was nothing anyone could
> have done to
> >>> prevent it. A professional NDI technician said the only
> way for it to
> >>> fail
> >>> the way it did, was a manufacturing defect.
> >>>
> >>> Saying a 582 has "excellent durability" is like a car
> salesman saying
> >>> "Trust
> >>> me". Do you really believe that? I guess it could - IF
> you're rich
> >>> enough
> >>> to
> >>> buy new cranks and jugs at every annual. But that
> wouldn't be enough.
> >>> Mine
> >>> ran great. And at 50 hours, it ate itself. With me in it.
> On takeoff.
> >>> Through no fault of mine.
> >>>
> >>> How's that for "excellent durability"?
> >>> Bradley
> >>>
> >>> P.S. I make no pretenses that the GEO is perfect. But I
> did my research,
> >>> and
> >>> found it a suitable alternative, with distinct
> advantages. I would be
> >>> glad
> >>> to share the FACTS on that, but you've made it clear that
> you won't
> >>> listen.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of Michael
> >>> Gibbs
> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:09 AM
> >>>
> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs
> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> >>>
> >>> Bradley sez:
> >>>
> >>>>The guy that wrote that about the Turbo 'fox is a
> blithering idiot...
> >>>
> >>> Can we have a break from the belligerent attitude,
> Bradley? You've
> >>> made your opinion on Rotax 2 strokes abundantly clear yet you now
> >>> feel the need to resort to personal attacks. It should
> be obvious by
> >>> now that not everyone shares your opinion--live with it.
> >>>
> >>> We know the Geo engine is the finest piece of engineering in the
> >>> history of mankind. We know that it produces more power than any
> >>> other engine and probably burbs up extra fuel in the process. We
> >>> know that if we go to the source of a product we'll always get an
> >>> unbiased view of that product's pros and cons. We even know that
> >>> there is no controversy at all regarding an engine's
> history in cars
> >>> as an indicator of how well it will perform in airplanes.
> We get it,
> >>> OK?
> >>>
> >>> Can we give it a rest?
> >>>
> >>> Mike G.
> >>> N728KF
> >>>
> >>> Do not archive.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> > http://wiki.matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Fw: Tires for sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I'm forwarding the following message for a Kitfox builder/owner not on list.
Contact him at his address below for details.
Deke
>
> Deke -
>
> These tires/tubes in the pic have about 50 hours on them since the pic,
> and are for sale if anybody on the list is interested. They can reach
> me at jeff.hays@bankofamerica.com
>
> http://www.aselia.com/n85ae/im001443.jpg
>
> I'm operating off pavement almost all the time, and like the 6.00x6's
> better for pavement. I did NOT notice any performance difference with
> the big tires. There may be some, but my climb and cruise is pretty
> much the same with either size.
>
> The 8.50's are a bit squirrely on pavement in crosswind conditions, and
> since I'm flying pretty much entirely off pavement I elected to switch
> back.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Hays
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:11 AM 7/14/2006, you wrote:
>Try http://www.rotax-owner.com/sdocs.htm
>SI-04-1990
>Deke
Well the Service Instruction dates from September 1990. Do you think an
engine manufactured in 1991 could have the same defect? (Yes, it's a
rhetorical question. Sigh.)
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I would consider it very suspect until I had a good look at that flywheel.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:07 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 07:11 AM 7/14/2006, you wrote:
> >Try http://www.rotax-owner.com/sdocs.htm
> >SI-04-1990
> >Deke
>
> Well the Service Instruction dates from September 1990. Do you think an
> engine manufactured in 1991 could have the same defect? (Yes, it's a
> rhetorical question. Sigh.)
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Noel, did you notice a differance between the tiny tach and the rotax tach
?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:15 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> I bought a tiny tach ... No moving parts. Operates on impulses form the
> plug wires. Also acts as a timer.
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Lowell Fitt
>> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:15 AM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor
>>
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Dave, I can't speak for the tach used on the 582, but the
>> accuracy of the
>> Rotax tach for the 912 will vary due to ambient temps. I
>> have gotten in the
>> habit of carrying an optical tach which measures prop RPM. I
>> made up a
>> conversion chart to engine RPM for ease of use. On the back
>> of the tach I
>> put a knob that can be used to key into the adjustment pot.
>>
>> Lowell
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:40 AM
>>
>>
>> > Now let me throw in something else. Rotax Tachs. I
>> recently put in a tiny
>> > tach as I have heard that they are very accurate and
>> perhaps more so than
>> > the Rotax tach. Well Guess what, my tiny tach reads about
>> 600 to 800 rpm
>> > higher at WOT than does the Rotax tach. Could it be a
>> problem in the gray
>> > wire coil on the rotax or that Rotax tach or is the tiny
>> tach accurate.?
>> >
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > PS -- I do wish you great success on your GEO install and
>> am anxiously
>> > awaiting to see some performance numbers.
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:42 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
>> <bmwebb@cox.net>
>> >>
>> >> Glad to provide my info...
>> >>
>> >> Remember that the motor ran fine. There was no seizure
>> involved. On this
>> >> takeoff, It didn't reach full rpm, maybe 5400 or so. By the time I
>> >> realized
>> >> what was wrong, the speed was high enough to rotate. My
>> pilot instinct
>> >> was
>> >> to deal with the flying first, engine issue second. I made
>> a very short
>> >> pattern over an open field, reduced throttle as much as I
>> dared, and came
>> >> in
>> >> to land. On the crosswind, the metal rubbing was burning
>> oil driped on
>> >> the
>> >> case, and I thought I had a fire. There was, oddly enough,
>> a bit of smoke
>> >> in
>> >> the cockpit, but I guessed it was exhaust, so I first
>> thought the muffler
>> >> broke away. Not so. I discovered the problem after
>> removing the motor the
>> >> next day.
>> >>
>> >> This motor had 430 hours on it, ~120 after rebuild. I flew
>> 50 of those
>> >> 120.
>> >> I do not know who did it, but it ran ok. It vibrated
>> tremendously, but I
>> >> figured that was part of it, after asking around. I used
>> the recommended
>> >> Pennzoil oil, and after removal, the piston skirts looked
>> fine. I did not
>> >> want to disassemble it, as I don't think the problem
>> migrated up to the
>> >> crankcase.
>> >>
>> >> The failure was the starter gear at the back of the motor.
>> I simply came
>> >> apart, and started grinding the metal off of the inner
>> case. It caught at
>> >> the bottom, and broke out a piece about 4 inches by 3
>> inches. The crack
>> >> started at the gear teeth, and moved to the center.
>> Curiously, it was in
>> >> between the mounting holes. I could not understand how it
>> didn't fail at
>> >> the
>> >> holes, as this is the natural stress riser. I think the
>> failure occur
>> >> from
>> >> the way the teeth were cut, or maybe damaged at some point
>> in its life.
>> >> The
>> >> gear on the starter showed no sign of malicious contact, but...
>> >>
>> >> The NDT was done at the Air Force base where I work. There
>> was no point
>> >> in
>> >> putting it through the flux machines, as the break was obvious.
>> >>
>> >> Bradley
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:52 PM
>> >>
>> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>> >>
>> >> Bradley,
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for the update on the 582 failure.
>> >>
>> >> Can you helps us out on anything ?
>> >> Whgat kind of oil wer you using ?
>> >> Was there a cold seizure or overheating going on?
>> >> How many hours - TT and since Major
>> >> - who did major and what was replaced.
>> >>
>> >> What part failed ?
>> >> Do you have pictures ?
>> >> what Rotax shop did the NDT testing to evaluate this incident ?
>> >>
>> >> I realize that some get sour over certain topics but hey
>> we all here to
>> >> help
>> >>
>> >> each other learn from the problems of others.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Dave
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:59 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
>> <bmwebb@cox.net>
>> >>>
>> >>> If an opinion based on actual experience, research, and
>> education is
>> >>> LESS
>> >>> important to you than a guy giving an UNEDUCATED and
>> PATENTLY WRONG
>> >>> review
>> >>> of a product he has never actually touched (and from only
>> looking at a
>> >>> picture, no less), then I invite you to place me on your
>> email snub
>> >>> list.
>> >>> Go
>> >>> for it. I will not stop calling it as I see it.
>> >>>
>> >>> My 582 failed on me. I gave it an honest shot, even
>> though I was aware
>> >>> of
>> >>> the potential for problems. IT FAILED! I would be glad to
>> provide the
>> >>> pictures of how it failed. There was nothing anyone could
>> have done to
>> >>> prevent it. A professional NDI technician said the only
>> way for it to
>> >>> fail
>> >>> the way it did, was a manufacturing defect.
>> >>>
>> >>> Saying a 582 has "excellent durability" is like a car
>> salesman saying
>> >>> "Trust
>> >>> me". Do you really believe that? I guess it could - IF
>> you're rich
>> >>> enough
>> >>> to
>> >>> buy new cranks and jugs at every annual. But that
>> wouldn't be enough.
>> >>> Mine
>> >>> ran great. And at 50 hours, it ate itself. With me in it.
>> On takeoff.
>> >>> Through no fault of mine.
>> >>>
>> >>> How's that for "excellent durability"?
>> >>> Bradley
>> >>>
>> >>> P.S. I make no pretenses that the GEO is perfect. But I
>> did my research,
>> >>> and
>> >>> found it a suitable alternative, with distinct
>> advantages. I would be
>> >>> glad
>> >>> to share the FACTS on that, but you've made it clear that
>> you won't
>> >>> listen.
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
>> Of Michael
>> >>> Gibbs
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:09 AM
>> >>>
>> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs
>> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>> >>>
>> >>> Bradley sez:
>> >>>
>> >>>>The guy that wrote that about the Turbo 'fox is a
>> blithering idiot...
>> >>>
>> >>> Can we have a break from the belligerent attitude,
>> Bradley? You've
>> >>> made your opinion on Rotax 2 strokes abundantly clear yet you now
>> >>> feel the need to resort to personal attacks. It should
>> be obvious by
>> >>> now that not everyone shares your opinion--live with it.
>> >>>
>> >>> We know the Geo engine is the finest piece of engineering in the
>> >>> history of mankind. We know that it produces more power than any
>> >>> other engine and probably burbs up extra fuel in the process. We
>> >>> know that if we go to the source of a product we'll always get an
>> >>> unbiased view of that product's pros and cons. We even know that
>> >>> there is no controversy at all regarding an engine's
>> history in cars
>> >>> as an indicator of how well it will perform in airplanes.
>> We get it,
>> >>> OK?
>> >>>
>> >>> Can we give it a rest?
>> >>>
>> >>> Mike G.
>> >>> N728KF
>> >>>
>> >>> Do not archive.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> > http://wiki.matronics.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 |
Kirk,
Michael Harter had an NSI EA81 in his Model IV several years back. On
takeoff one time he lost power (not all) throttled back and returned to
the airport. He discovered several (not sure how many) broken push
rods. He replaced then with parts from NSI.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
kirk hull wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I had an in flight failure last week of N205AK's Suberu ea81. She was landed
>with no problems and everyone is ok. The push rod on the # 4 cylinder (
>Front right)snaped. Attached is a picture of the part . it made a clean
>break almost dead center on the rod completely in to. With only 20 hrs on
>the engine and only 5 in flight this should not have happened. Has anyone
>else seen this before and why did it happen? P.S. it is a 100HP Stratus
>conversion.
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Tires for sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Deke,
Is it the 850's he is selling? If so, how much does he want?
Darin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=47187#47187
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Tires for sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Yes they are 850's, but sorry, I just bought them.
Cliff
Deke,
Is it the 850's he is selling? If so, how much does he want?
Darin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=47187#47187
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Tires for sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I just got a message from him that they're sold. Have no idea how much.
Snooze and lose!
:-)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:28 PM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
>
> Deke,
>
> Is it the 850's he is selling? If so, how much does he want?
>
> Darin
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=47187#47187
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor malcolm |
This is precisely why I went with the Geo. It uses 2gph, the core motor cost
is $300, and the total rebuild was $500, including pistons, valve train,
gaskets, the works. You basically end up with a zero time motor, and parts
are never farther than the local auto parts store. The redrive system is
expensive, but you only buy that once. You can get a second motor, build it
up as a spare, and have well less than $5000 in both (BTW, that's redrive,
prop, everything). Some of the guys do this for their trikes (and I plan to,
as well). If the Geo does crap out, just load up your spare and go fly.
Theoretically, you could replace a Geo core at annual every year with a
decent low time motor (do nothing to it), and spend next to nothing on it
over the course of a year's flying. Not really practical, but you could if
you wanted to. Cost per hour would be maybe $20-$25, depending on the hours
flown?
Not a Geo plug, just why I went with it over the other choices. The 582 was
just too darned expensive to maintain and operate, required way too much
maintenance, and I had to mail order every single part. All that for 4-7
gph, loose fillings, and numb feet.
As long as the Rotax was there, my sons only got one flight each. I couldn't
trust it enough to risk them. My butt is one thing, but theirs is another
altogether.
I wanted to fly for fun, and not spend a small fortune on it. If I wanted to
totally waste money, I'd have a boat.
BTW, I don't like folding my wings as a regular practice. Seems to be a bit
of a PITA for that on a daily basis. However, it is super nice to be able to
fold to get it around when needed. Sometimes I like to just go for just 30
minutes, and trailering wouldn't really be practical for that sort of
flying. Maybe your friend would let you park at the strip?
Bradley
_____
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Smith
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:11 AM
Yea, I guess that I started this thing. I am still looking at that kit but
am not ready to jump into it at this time. I am a furloughed AA pilot and I
was looking for something that I could go flying with my son on the
weekends. It would have to be VERY cost effective because of the furloughed
thing. It was looking like I could have a complete flying airplane for
under 10K. Now I don't think that I would put my son in it without a new
engine. That about blows the 10K thing out of the water. I am in love with
the folding wings thing. Keep it in my garage and I have a friend about two
miles down the road with a 1800 grass strip, it dosen't get very much better
than that. So I will keep looking and hope something comes up. I want to
thank Al also. He hooked me up with this e-mail group and I am enjoying it
very much. Brian Smith.
_____
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Malcolmbru@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:40 PM
Can any body remember how this all started? I think a farley new guy asked
about a motor considering to buy an old kit. I wonder how this guy feels
about the question now. I think the correct answer to his question mite
be something like this a motor that old is not worth very much, almost all
the parts are available a lot of people are still flying them. a kit that
old is not worth a lot of money but almost everyone that fly's them really
like them. mal
Message 31
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|
I have an early Model IV Speedster with an older 912UL engine and am having a heck
of a time finding an ignition module. My 912 has the ignition system in a
metal noise suppression box behind the firewall. Anyway, one of my two ignition
modules is out and Rotax no longer makes this module. Lockwood and CPS tells
me that the newer modules will not work in my igntion system and their only
solution is to spend $3,500 on a new ignition system. Naturally, I rather not
spend that much, but may not have any other choice unless one of you folks
can help.
Was hoping that one of you might have one of these old type ignition systems
sitting around and would sell me a module out of it. At this point I am willing
to pay a premium price. I gotta get back in the air.
Would deeply appreciate any assistance.
Jimmie
Message 32
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|
I have an early Model IV Speedster with an older 912UL engine and am having a heck
of a time finding an ignition module. My 912 has the ignition system in a
metal noise suppression box behind the firewall. Anyway, one of my two ignition
modules is out and Rotax no longer makes this module. Lockwood and CPS tells
me that the newer modules will not work in my igntion system and their only
solution is to spend $3,500 on a new ignition system. Naturally, I rather not
spend that much, but may not have any other choice unless one of you folks
can help.
Was hoping that one of you might have one of these old type ignition systems
sitting around and would sell me a module out of it. At this point I am willing
to pay a premium price. I gotta get back in the air.
Would deeply appreciate any assistance.
Jimmie
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Ignition Module |
Check with Wayne Larsen at Airmotive service 435-723-5702
-------------- Original message --------------
I have an early Model IV Speedster with an older 912UL engine and am having a heck
of a time finding an ignition module. My 912 has the ignition system in a
metal noise suppression box behind the firewall. Anyway, one of my two ignition
modules is out and Rotax no longer makes this module. Lockwood and CPS tells
me that the newer modules will not work in my igntion system and their only
solution is to spend $3,500 on a new ignition system. Naturally, I rather not
spend that much, but may not have any other choice unless one of you folks
can help.
Was hoping that one of you might have one of these old type ignition systems sitting
around and would sell me a module out of it. At this point I am willing
to pay a premium price. I gotta get back in the air.
Would deeply appreciate any assistance.
Jimmie
<html><body>
<DIV>Check with Wayne Larsen at Airmotive service 435-723-5702</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Jimmie Blackwell
<jimmieblackwell@sbcglobal.net> <BR>
<DIV>I have an early Model IV Speedster with an older 912UL engine and am having
a heck of a time finding an ignition module. My 912 has the ignition system
in a metal noise suppression box behind the firewall. Anyway, one
of my two ignition modules is out and Rotax no longer makes this module.
Lockwood and CPS tells me that the newer modules will not work in my igntion
system and their only solution is to spend $3,500 on a new ignition system.
Naturally, I rather not spend that much, but may not have any other choice
unless one of you folks can help.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Was hoping that one of you might have one of these old type ignition systems
sitting around and would sell me a module out of it. At this point I
am willing to pay a premium price. I gotta get back in the air.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Would deeply appreciate any assistance.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jimmie</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>
Message 34
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| Subject: | broken push rod suberu ea81 |
thanks . I am begining to think that NSI uses their own push rods and not
the stock sub parts.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John King
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:17 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
Kirk,
Michael Harter had an NSI EA81 in his Model IV several years back. On
takeoff one time he lost power (not all) throttled back and returned to the
airport. He discovered several (not sure how many) broken push rods. He
replaced then with parts from NSI.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
kirk hull wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I had an in flight failure last week of N205AK's Suberu ea81. She was landed
with no problems and everyone is ok. The push rod on the # 4 cylinder (
Front right)snaped. Attached is a picture of the part . it made a clean
break almost dead center on the rod completely in to. With only 20 hrs on
the engine and only 5 in flight this should not have happened. Has anyone
else seen this before and why did it happen? P.S. it is a 100HP Stratus
conversion.
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tires for sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Thats ok, I have a set of tires already...all I really need some tubes. Supposedly
Aircraft spruce is getting 4 pairs of tubes in today or monday and I have
a set on order.
Darin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=47264#47264
Message 36
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| Subject: | broken push rod suberu ea81 |
I will be out to the airport on the 17th and would be most happy to do
that.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 5:27 AM
are you using an NSI and if so would you have a push rod handy to
photograph? Please don't remove one but if you have one just laying
around I would really like to see a pic.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Yes Rick, mine are are much thinker too and non turbo are the same. It
does look like an after market item. John A.
_____
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Humm, that looks like an aluminum custom type. Is it? The stock ones, at
least on the turbo engine are steal, fat, real beefy. I don't have
experience with the non-turbo, maybe someone else can comment. I would
change to the tougher style, not good. Let me know.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:26 PM
sorry I must have forgotten to attach the photo so here it is
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:09 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I had an in flight failure last week of N205AK's Suberu ea81. She was
landed with no problems and everyone is ok. The push rod on the # 4
cylinder ( Front right)snaped. Attached is a picture of the part . it
made a clean break almost dead center on the rod completely in to. With
only 20 hrs on the engine and only 5 in flight this should not have
happened. Has anyone else seen this before and why did it happen? P.S.
it is a 100HP Stratus =========================Navigator to Photoshare,
and http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
=========================List Wiki!
=========================http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | broken push rod suberu ea81 |
They used stock I am almost positive, unless it was a special order,
don't think so. This engine doesn't spin fast enough to worry about push
rod weight and the HP savings I think one would be hard pressed to
measure.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:57 PM
thanks . I am begining to think that NSI uses their own push rods and
not the stock sub parts.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John King
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:17 PM
Kirk,
Michael Harter had an NSI EA81 in his Model IV several years back. On
takeoff one time he lost power (not all) throttled back and returned to
the airport. He discovered several (not sure how many) broken push
rods. He replaced then with parts from NSI.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
kirk hull wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull"
<mailto:kirkhull@sbcglobal.net> <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I had an in flight failure last week of N205AK's Suberu ea81. She was
landed
with no problems and everyone is ok. The push rod on the # 4 cylinder (
Front right)snaped. Attached is a picture of the part . it made a
clean
break almost dead center on the rod completely in to. With only 20 hrs
on
the engine and only 5 in flight this should not have happened. Has
anyone
else seen this before and why did it happen? P.S. it is a 100HP Stratus
conversion.
Message 38
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|
Boy Jimmy you are having all kinds of bad luck...... :-( I hope you are
able to find one.
Marwynne
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie Blackwell
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 4:05 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Ignition Module
I have an early Model IV Speedster with an older 912UL engine and am
having a heck of a time finding an ignition module. My 912 has the ignition
system in a metal noise suppression box behind the firewall. Anyway, one of
my two ignition modules is out and Rotax no longer makes this module.
Lockwood and CPS tells me that the newer modules will not work in my igntion
system and their only solution is to spend $3,500 on a new ignition system.
Naturally, I rather not spend that much, but may not have any other choice
unless one of you folks can help.
Was hoping that one of you might have one of these old type ignition
systems sitting around and would sell me a module out of it. At this point
I am willing to pay a premium price. I gotta get back in the air.
Would deeply appreciate any assistance.
Jimmie
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Emailing: Mail0001 |
Attached (I hope) is a picture of the break which I recently noticed in
the starter cover on my 582 engine. The arrow points to the approximate
place at which the break occurred. The starter motor is still attached
firmly because the break did not involve either one of the "ears" to
which it is attached. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem?
Understand that all the rubber O rings were in place as per the diagram.
Obviously the prudent thing to do is replace the cover, but at $342
it's a bitter pill to swallow. I had always been under the impression
that an arch (which is what the cover amounts to at the point where it
broke) had to break in 2 places to break at all, but I guess where cast
aluminum is concerned, anything can happen.
Clem Nichols
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Mail0001
e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
Message 40
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| Subject: | broken push rod suberu ea81 |
Messagethanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of wingsdown
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:52 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
I will be out to the airport on the 17th and would be most happy to do
that.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 5:27 AM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
are you using an NSI and if so would you have a push rod handy to
photograph? Please don't remove one but if you have one just laying around
I would really like to see a pic.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Anderson
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Yes Rick, mine are are much thinker too and non turbo are the same. It
does look like an after market item. John A.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:38:19 -0700
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown"
<wingsdown@comcast.net>
Humm, that looks like an aluminum custom type. Is it? The stock
ones, at
least on the turbo engine are steal, fat, real beefy. I don't have
experience with the non-turbo, maybe someone else can comment. I
would
change to the tougher style, not good. Let me know.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk
hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:26 PM
sorry I must have forgotten to attach the photo so here it is
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk
hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:09 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull"
<kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I had an in flight failure last week of N205AK's Suberu ea81. She
was
landed with no problems and everyone is ok. The push rod on the # 4
cylinder ( Front right)snaped. Attached is a picture of the part .
it
made a clean break almost dead center on the rod completely in to.
With
only 20 hrs on the engine and only 5 in flight this should not have
happened. Has anyone else seen this before and why did it happen?
P.S.
it is a 100HP Stratus =========================Navigator to
Photoshare, and http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
=========================List Wiki!
=========================http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: Mail0001 |
Aluminum can easily be welded by a competent welder.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Clem Nichols
To: kitfox list
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:26 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Emailing: Mail0001
Attached (I hope) is a picture of the break which I recently noticed
in the starter cover on my 582 engine. The arrow points to the
approximate place at which the break occurred. The starter motor is
still attached firmly because the break did not involve either one of
the "ears" to which it is attached. Has anyone else experienced a
similar problem? Understand that all the rubber O rings were in place
as per the diagram. Obviously the prudent thing to do is replace the
cover, but at $342 it's a bitter pill to swallow. I had always been
under the impression that an arch (which is what the cover amounts to at
the point where it broke) had to break in 2 places to break at all, but
I guess where cast aluminum is concerned, anything can happen.
Clem Nichols
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Mail0001
e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
Message 42
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|
Jimmy,
Give me a call. I may have some answers for you. I had two go bad and
did a bit of research on the options. I have the old style too. You can
reach me at 586 918-3838.
Rex Phelps in Michigan
-- "Marwynne" <marwynne@verizon.net> wrote:
Boy Jimmy you are having all kinds of bad luck...... :-( I hope you ar
e able to find one. Marwynne-----Original Message-----
erver@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie Blackwell
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 4:05 PM
I have an early Model IV Speedster with an older 912UL engine and am hav
ing a heck of a time finding an ignition module. My 912 has the ignitio
n system in a metal noise suppression box behind the firewall. Anyway,
one of my two ignition modules is out and Rotax no longer makes this mod
ule. Lockwood and CPS tells me that the newer modules will not work in
my igntion system and their only solution is to spend $3,500 on a new ig
nition system. Naturally, I rather not spend that much, but may not hav
e any other choice unless one of you folks can help. Was hoping that one
of you might have one of these old type ignition systems sitting around
and would sell me a module out of it. At this point I am willing to pa
y a premium price. I gotta get back in the air. Would deeply appreciate
any assistance. Jimmie
<html><P>Jimmy,</P>
<P> Give me a call. I may have some answers for you. I had two go
bad and did a bit of research on the options. I have the old style too.
You can reach me at 586 918-3838.</P>
<P>Rex Phelps in Michigan<BR><BR>-- "Marwynne" <marwynne@ve
rizon.net> wrote:<BR></P>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><SPAN class=625331101-15072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Boy Jimmy you are having all kinds of bad luck...... :-(
I hope you are able to find one.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=625331101-15072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=625331101-15072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Marwynne</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Ta
homa size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-kitfox-li
st-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]<
B>On Behalf Of </B>Jimmie Blackwell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 14, 200
6 4:05 PM<BR><B>To:</B> kitfox-list@matronics.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Kit
fox-List: Ignition Module<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>I have an early Model IV Speedster with an older 912UL engine and a
m having a heck of a time finding an ignition module. My 912 has t
he ignition system in a metal noise suppression box behind the firewall.
Anyway, one of my two ignition modules is out and Rotax no longer
makes this module. Lockwood and CPS tells me that the newer modul
es will not work in my igntion system and their only solution is to spen
d $3,500 on a new ignition system. Naturally, I rather not spend t
hat much, but may not have any other choice unless one of you folks can
help.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Was hoping that one of you might have one of these old type ignitio
n systems sitting around and would sell me a module out of it. At
this point I am willing to pay a premium price. I gotta get back i
n the air.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Would deeply appreciate any assistance.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jimmie</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></html>
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I installed the tiny tach because I thought there was a problem with the
original Kitfox tach. @ 6400 RPM I couldn't get the plane to climb any
better than a couple of hundred feet a minute. On one take off last year
the plane took off like a rocket ship by the time I looked down at the tach
it was bouncing off 7800 rpm. According to the power curves the engine
shouldn't be able to turn that fast with the prop installed.
The first thing I did when I installed the Tiny Tach was to check the
calibration of the regular tach... Boy-O-boy was it off..... 7800 on the
factory tach was only reading 6200 on the tiny tach. At the other end of
the speedtrum 2000 rpm on the factory tach ( Idle speed for the 582) was
just over 1300 RMP on the tiny tach no wonder the engine seemed so rough
at the idle. The last flight I had was .....absolutely thrilling! Take
offs on the Areocet floats were .... Let me put it this way ... The plane
went from taxi speed right to flight without hardly hitting the step at all.
If some one told me I was doing ten second take offs on floats I wouldn't be
surprised.
As an electronics tech.... I can give you lots of reasons why the Tiny tach
can believed for it's accuracy. As an avionics tech I can tell you how the
factory tach can misread.. especially with age.
Next to an optical tach the Tiny Tach seems to be good bang for the buck.
The only thing I would fault it for is some where in the little black box is
a smaller battery.... Someday it will run down.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:40 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Noel, did you notice a differance between the tiny tach and
> the rotax tach
> ?
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:15 AM
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> >
> > I bought a tiny tach ... No moving parts. Operates on
> impulses form the
> > plug wires. Also acts as a timer.
> >
> > Noel
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Lowell Fitt
> >> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:15 AM
> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor
> >>
> >>
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> >> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> >>
> >> Dave, I can't speak for the tach used on the 582, but the
> >> accuracy of the
> >> Rotax tach for the 912 will vary due to ambient temps. I
> >> have gotten in the
> >> habit of carrying an optical tach which measures prop RPM. I
> >> made up a
> >> conversion chart to engine RPM for ease of use. On the back
> >> of the tach I
> >> put a knob that can be used to key into the adjustment pot.
> >>
> >> Lowell
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:40 AM
> >>
> >>
> >> > Now let me throw in something else. Rotax Tachs. I
> >> recently put in a tiny
> >> > tach as I have heard that they are very accurate and
> >> perhaps more so than
> >> > the Rotax tach. Well Guess what, my tiny tach reads about
> >> 600 to 800 rpm
> >> > higher at WOT than does the Rotax tach. Could it be a
> >> problem in the gray
> >> > wire coil on the rotax or that Rotax tach or is the tiny
> >> tach accurate.?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >> >
> >> > PS -- I do wish you great success on your GEO install and
> >> am anxiously
> >> > awaiting to see some performance numbers.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:42 PM
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
> >> <bmwebb@cox.net>
> >> >>
> >> >> Glad to provide my info...
> >> >>
> >> >> Remember that the motor ran fine. There was no seizure
> >> involved. On this
> >> >> takeoff, It didn't reach full rpm, maybe 5400 or so. By
> the time I
> >> >> realized
> >> >> what was wrong, the speed was high enough to rotate. My
> >> pilot instinct
> >> >> was
> >> >> to deal with the flying first, engine issue second. I made
> >> a very short
> >> >> pattern over an open field, reduced throttle as much as I
> >> dared, and came
> >> >> in
> >> >> to land. On the crosswind, the metal rubbing was burning
> >> oil driped on
> >> >> the
> >> >> case, and I thought I had a fire. There was, oddly enough,
> >> a bit of smoke
> >> >> in
> >> >> the cockpit, but I guessed it was exhaust, so I first
> >> thought the muffler
> >> >> broke away. Not so. I discovered the problem after
> >> removing the motor the
> >> >> next day.
> >> >>
> >> >> This motor had 430 hours on it, ~120 after rebuild. I flew
> >> 50 of those
> >> >> 120.
> >> >> I do not know who did it, but it ran ok. It vibrated
> >> tremendously, but I
> >> >> figured that was part of it, after asking around. I used
> >> the recommended
> >> >> Pennzoil oil, and after removal, the piston skirts looked
> >> fine. I did not
> >> >> want to disassemble it, as I don't think the problem
> >> migrated up to the
> >> >> crankcase.
> >> >>
> >> >> The failure was the starter gear at the back of the motor.
> >> I simply came
> >> >> apart, and started grinding the metal off of the inner
> >> case. It caught at
> >> >> the bottom, and broke out a piece about 4 inches by 3
> >> inches. The crack
> >> >> started at the gear teeth, and moved to the center.
> >> Curiously, it was in
> >> >> between the mounting holes. I could not understand how it
> >> didn't fail at
> >> >> the
> >> >> holes, as this is the natural stress riser. I think the
> >> failure occur
> >> >> from
> >> >> the way the teeth were cut, or maybe damaged at some point
> >> in its life.
> >> >> The
> >> >> gear on the starter showed no sign of malicious contact, but...
> >> >>
> >> >> The NDT was done at the Air Force base where I work. There
> >> was no point
> >> >> in
> >> >> putting it through the flux machines, as the break was obvious.
> >> >>
> >> >> Bradley
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Dave
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:52 PM
> >> >>
> >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> >> >>
> >> >> Bradley,
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks for the update on the 582 failure.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can you helps us out on anything ?
> >> >> Whgat kind of oil wer you using ?
> >> >> Was there a cold seizure or overheating going on?
> >> >> How many hours - TT and since Major
> >> >> - who did major and what was replaced.
> >> >>
> >> >> What part failed ?
> >> >> Do you have pictures ?
> >> >> what Rotax shop did the NDT testing to evaluate this incident ?
> >> >>
> >> >> I realize that some get sour over certain topics but hey
> >> we all here to
> >> >> help
> >> >>
> >> >> each other learn from the problems of others.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Best regards,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dave
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:59 PM
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb"
> >> <bmwebb@cox.net>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If an opinion based on actual experience, research, and
> >> education is
> >> >>> LESS
> >> >>> important to you than a guy giving an UNEDUCATED and
> >> PATENTLY WRONG
> >> >>> review
> >> >>> of a product he has never actually touched (and from only
> >> looking at a
> >> >>> picture, no less), then I invite you to place me on your
> >> email snub
> >> >>> list.
> >> >>> Go
> >> >>> for it. I will not stop calling it as I see it.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> My 582 failed on me. I gave it an honest shot, even
> >> though I was aware
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> the potential for problems. IT FAILED! I would be glad to
> >> provide the
> >> >>> pictures of how it failed. There was nothing anyone could
> >> have done to
> >> >>> prevent it. A professional NDI technician said the only
> >> way for it to
> >> >>> fail
> >> >>> the way it did, was a manufacturing defect.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Saying a 582 has "excellent durability" is like a car
> >> salesman saying
> >> >>> "Trust
> >> >>> me". Do you really believe that? I guess it could - IF
> >> you're rich
> >> >>> enough
> >> >>> to
> >> >>> buy new cranks and jugs at every annual. But that
> >> wouldn't be enough.
> >> >>> Mine
> >> >>> ran great. And at 50 hours, it ate itself. With me in it.
> >> On takeoff.
> >> >>> Through no fault of mine.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> How's that for "excellent durability"?
> >> >>> Bradley
> >> >>>
> >> >>> P.S. I make no pretenses that the GEO is perfect. But I
> >> did my research,
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> found it a suitable alternative, with distinct
> >> advantages. I would be
> >> >>> glad
> >> >>> to share the FACTS on that, but you've made it clear that
> >> you won't
> >> >>> listen.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> >> Of Michael
> >> >>> Gibbs
> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:09 AM
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs
> >> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Bradley sez:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>The guy that wrote that about the Turbo 'fox is a
> >> blithering idiot...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Can we have a break from the belligerent attitude,
> >> Bradley? You've
> >> >>> made your opinion on Rotax 2 strokes abundantly clear
> yet you now
> >> >>> feel the need to resort to personal attacks. It should
> >> be obvious by
> >> >>> now that not everyone shares your opinion--live with it.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> We know the Geo engine is the finest piece of
> engineering in the
> >> >>> history of mankind. We know that it produces more
> power than any
> >> >>> other engine and probably burbs up extra fuel in the
> process. We
> >> >>> know that if we go to the source of a product we'll
> always get an
> >> >>> unbiased view of that product's pros and cons. We
> even know that
> >> >>> there is no controversy at all regarding an engine's
> >> history in cars
> >> >>> as an indicator of how well it will perform in airplanes.
> >> We get it,
> >> >>> OK?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Can we give it a rest?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Mike G.
> >> >>> N728KF
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Do not archive.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> >> > http://wiki.matronics.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | broken push rod suberu ea81 |
MessageI installed the new pushrod today and checked the clearances on all
valves. found two that were tight. Still wandering if that could have
caused the problem. 205AK run great again. put .4 on her today with no
problems but I think that I will pull all of the pushrods at the next
inspection and inspect them just in case.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:08 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of wingsdown
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:52 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
I will be out to the airport on the 17th and would be most happy to do
that.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 5:27 AM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
are you using an NSI and if so would you have a push rod handy to
photograph? Please don't remove one but if you have one just laying around
I would really like to see a pic.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Anderson
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Yes Rick, mine are are much thinker too and non turbo are the same.
It does look like an after market item. John A.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: broken push rod suberu ea81
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:38:19 -0700
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown"
<wingsdown@comcast.net>
Humm, that looks like an aluminum custom type. Is it? The stock
ones, at
least on the turbo engine are steal, fat, real beefy. I don't have
experience with the non-turbo, maybe someone else can comment. I
would
change to the tougher style, not good. Let me know.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk
hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:26 PM
sorry I must have forgotten to attach the photo so here it is
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk
hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:09 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull"
<kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I had an in flight failure last week of N205AK's Suberu ea81. She
was
landed with no problems and everyone is ok. The push rod on the #
4
cylinder ( Front right)snaped. Attached is a picture of the part
. it
made a clean break almost dead center on the rod completely in to.
With
only 20 hrs on the engine and only 5 in flight this should not
have
happened. Has anyone else seen this before and why did it happen?
P.S.
it is a 100HP Stratus =========================Navigator to
Photoshare, and http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
=========================List Wiki!
=========================http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 45
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|
I agree with you. But I've heard so many various Rotax stories, that the
motor scared me even before I flew it. I had intended on going another
way
right from the start. I just hoped it would survive long enough to find
a
suitable cliff. It didn't.
One guy flew one clear across Australia. That's gutsy.
Is that me you are refering to ? I bought my MKIV/582 about 2 years ago
in Perth in Western Australia and flew it home to Loxton in Sth
Australia. This was written up in an article in our Australian
Ultralight magazine.
OK the motor was a nearly new bluehead 582 and had only done 45 hours at
the start of the trip. About the same time another guy did an almost
identical trip in an Xair with a 582 in it. My point is this two strokes
are more than happy doing this sort of thing. Yes two strokes do need a
different understanding to a four stroke. However it is only fair that
one understands the equiptment they are using before blaming it when it
fails. I have had a lot to do with racing two strokes and I love them.
If you understand them and treat them right why shouldn't they be more
reliable in fact than a four stroke. There is less parts after all. All
motors are a work in progress and faults are rectified as they occur and
the motor evolves into its current form. This is basically why the Model
99 or Bluehead as we call it 582 is better than the grey head. I repeat
all motors evolve or should anyway. I don't think anyone has made a
perfect one first time.
Now there is a factor that comes into all this. The 582 is making a
lot of power for its weight, capacity and size. So maybe it is stressed
a bit more than a larger motor making similar horsepower be it 4 stroke
or 2 stroke. However consider that the modern 2 stroke now is typically
85% efficient and it fires every time the piston hits top dead centre,
so it will make more power for the same tuning level than a 4 stroke of
the same capacity. Don't forget though the 582 is not that highly tuned
or stressed. Look at the power it makes as a 583 !
I think a lot of this talk about 2 strokes being inferior is not
accurate understanding and knowledge. I put faith in mine to bring me
home from Perth and I intend to fly it back there and home again one
day. Also in maybe 12 months I will fly it to Alice Springs in the
centre of Australia. Am I mad ? You be the judge !
Regards the 532 I don't know a lot about this except heresay but there
is a lot of that ! Anyway for what it's worth as it's only my
impression the 532 made similar power to the 582 but it was more highly
tuned and peaky. Not really suitable for the purpose hence the 582 was
born and later developed to what it is today. The old 532 lacks that
development. Also such an old motor is likely to have rust spots on
needle bearings apart from the bore etc etc. The needle bearings though
are the ones that are going to cause very early failure. So all in all I
totally agree with the general concensus. Use the 532 for a boat anchor
or at least in some situation where a failure is not serious.
If anyone has some cold hard facts against two strokes by all means
state them but just generally knocking the 2 stroke without fact is
pointless. I ran and owned an electrical business for 30 years before I
sold up and retired. Part of that time we sold lawnmowers and we only
ever sold one 4 stroke on special request. All the others were 2
strokes. However the general public opinion was against the 2 stroke and
this is just the same thing happening here against 2 strokes. Some guys
understand 4 strokes but not 2 strokes so yes for them I guess a 4
stroke is the better choice.
Blaming 2 strokes because one had starter gear problems is typical of
the problem. Could not the same thing happen to a four stroke ?
OK enough on this subject I'll shut up now I've tried to point this
out and by the way I do like the idea of the Geo engine. The one thing I
don't like about the 582 is it doesn't like going below 3,000 RPM. I
have seen a Geo running dead smooth and I assume it will be more
economical. However it won't fit under the cowl as well or weigh the
same. Can't win them all.
Rex Shaw
Australia.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
> Noel: The only thing I would fault it for is some where in the little black
box is a smaller battery.... Someday it will run down.
>
I was curious.... website suggests you may not need to worry about changing that
battery... (you may have another model)
---------------------------------
http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/gasoline.php
Standard Tiny-Tach
Simple hour meter with tachomter.
RPM to 9,990.
Option available to reset the hour meter.
Different models for different engine types.
Updates every 2 seconds.
Standard wire length is 6 feet.
Estimated battery life is 5+ years not replaceable.
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=47325#47325
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 a Boat Anchor malcolm |
I half.... Ok more than half agree with you. Everything I've seen on
the
Geo Suzi engine has been good. Yes the 2stroke anything will require
more
maintenance than almost anything 4stroke. but.... Yep here it comes
....
the 2 stroke is so much lighter. As for fuel consumption youhave me
there....hands down!
What's this about loose fillings and numb feet. I've spent most of my
time
behincd a Lyc. in a 172 Spam can. and I can tell you there is no more
vibration from my "R"
As for folding the wings.... Every time I fly. If I have a beef it's
with
installing the turtle deck. I've flown with the doors open maybe it
will
fly nice with the turtle deck back on the ground. On the other hand I
have
a 1/4 wave com. antenna mounted on my one piece deck.
Fly Fish, Fly Floats, Fly Safe!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradley M
Webb
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 4:53 PM
This is precisely why I went with the Geo. It uses 2gph, the core motor
cost
is $300, and the total rebuild was $500, including pistons, valve train,
gaskets, the works. You basically end up with a zero time motor, and
parts
are never farther than the local auto parts store. The redrive system is
expensive, but you only buy that once. You can get a second motor, build
it
up as a spare, and have well less than $5000 in both (BTW, that's
redrive,
prop, everything). Some of the guys do this for their trikes (and I plan
to,
as well). If the Geo does crap out, just load up your spare and go fly.
Theoretically, you could replace a Geo core at annual every year with a
decent low time motor (do nothing to it), and spend next to nothing on
it
over the course of a year's flying. Not really practical, but you could
if
you wanted to. Cost per hour would be maybe $20-$25, depending on the
hours
flown?
Not a Geo plug, just why I went with it over the other choices. The 582
was
just too darned expensive to maintain and operate, required way too much
maintenance, and I had to mail order every single part. All that for 4-7
gph, loose fillings, and numb feet.
As long as the Rotax was there, my sons only got one flight each. I
couldn't
trust it enough to risk them. My butt is one thing, but theirs is
another
altogether.
I wanted to fly for fun, and not spend a small fortune on it. If I
wanted to
totally waste money, I'd have a boat.
BTW, I don't like folding my wings as a regular practice. Seems to be a
bit
of a PITA for that on a daily basis. However, it is super nice to be
able to
fold to get it around when needed. Sometimes I like to just go for just
30
minutes, and trailering wouldn't really be practical for that sort of
flying. Maybe your friend would let you park at the strip?
Bradley
_____
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Smith
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:11 AM
Yea, I guess that I started this thing. I am still looking at that kit
but
am not ready to jump into it at this time. I am a furloughed AA pilot
and I
was looking for something that I could go flying with my son on the
weekends. It would have to be VERY cost effective because of the
furloughed
thing. It was looking like I could have a complete flying airplane for
under 10K. Now I don't think that I would put my son in it without a
new
engine. That about blows the 10K thing out of the water. I am in love
with
the folding wings thing. Keep it in my garage and I have a friend about
two
miles down the road with a 1800 grass strip, it dosen't get very much
better
than that. So I will keep looking and hope something comes up. I want
to
thank Al also. He hooked me up with this e-mail group and I am enjoying
it
very much. Brian Smith.
_____
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Malcolmbru@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:40 PM
Can any body remember how this all started? I think a farley new guy
asked
about a motor considering to buy an old kit. I wonder how this guy feels
about the question now. I think the correct answer to his question
mite
be something like this a motor that old is not worth very much, almost
all
the parts are available a lot of people are still flying them. a kit
that
old is not worth a lot of money but almost everyone that fly's them
really
like them. mal
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Model IV 1200 Dimensions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
Johannes, I remember from years ago that you had the "ultimate" Kitfox trailer.
Do you still have pictures or details? Pete Lee (retired maritime museum director
and Kitfox IV flyer)
-----Original Message-----
>From: Johannes Czernin <jcz@chello.at>
>Sent: Jul 13, 2006 10:45 AM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model IV 1200 Dimensions
>
>Hi, Ken,
>
>Many years ago I posted a 3-view drawing of the Model IV on the Sportflight.
>I just checked there and I can't find it, though I'm sure Don Pearsall would
>know where it hides.
>
>Anyhow, since image files can be sent attached to postings these days
>perhaps it would help if I mailed you a copy of the drawing right here.
>
>Kind regards,
>
>Johannes
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken Arnold
>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:23 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model IV 1200 Dimensions
>>
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ken Arnold" <arno7452@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Mike,
>> Many thanks. The width should be slightly less than 8' I would imagine.
>> So, a trailer with inside dimensions of 8'x8'x24' might work.
>> Now to find
>> an affordable trailer. I have a pick up truck for towing. I also agree
>> that towing the plane out in the open does not sound like a good approach.
>>
>> I live about 5 miles from the airport and the roads are not heavily
>> traveled. Trailering it would be easy.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 1:42 PM
>>
>>
>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: mdps_mc@swoca.net
>> >
>> > Ken
>> > The length is approx. 21 to 22 feet. I trailered mine one time to the
>> > airport with intentions of doing so everytime. Although fairly
>> easy to do
>> > I didn't like the potential beating tjhe folded wings would
>> take from the
>> > road. I have hangered for ten years. I am thinking about
>> using a trailer
>> > as my hanger at the airport. The cost of hanger space
>> continues to rise.
>> > However I'm not sure I would even be allowed to do this.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > To:kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> > Listers,
>> > I am looking to acquire Model IV 1200 taildragger. Can someone give me
>> > external dimensions with wings folded back. I am thinking of buying a
>> > trailer to hanger it. Then tow the whole thing to local airport.
>> >
>> > Anyone tried this?
>> > Many thanks,
>> > Ken Arnold
>> > Pikeville, NC
>> >
>> > do not archive
>> > ----------------
>> > This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at
>> > SWOCA.
>> > ----------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Re: Re two strokes |
Well said Rex and to answer your previous email, things are looking
good.
Regards
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: Rex Shaw
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 5:47 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re two strokes
I agree with you. But I've heard so many various Rotax stories, that
the
motor scared me even before I flew it. I had intended on going another
way
right from the start. I just hoped it would survive long enough to
find a
suitable cliff. It didn't.
One guy flew one clear across Australia. That's gutsy.
Is that me you are refering to ? I bought my MKIV/582 about 2 years
ago in Perth in Western Australia and flew it home to Loxton in Sth
Australia. This was written up in an article in our Australian
Ultralight magazine.
OK the motor was a nearly new bluehead 582 and had only done 45 hours
at the start of the trip. About the same time another guy did an almost
identical trip in an Xair with a 582 in it. My point is this two strokes
are more than happy doing this sort of thing. Yes two strokes do need a
different understanding to a four stroke. However it is only fair that
one understands the equiptment they are using before blaming it when it
fails. I have had a lot to do with racing two strokes and I love them.
If you understand them and treat them right why shouldn't they be more
reliable in fact than a four stroke. There is less parts after all. All
motors are a work in progress and faults are rectified as they occur and
the motor evolves into its current form. This is basically why the Model
99 or Bluehead as we call it 582 is better than the grey head. I repeat
all motors evolve or should anyway. I don't think anyone has made a
perfect one first time.
Now there is a factor that comes into all this. The 582 is making a
lot of power for its weight, capacity and size. So maybe it is stressed
a bit more than a larger motor making similar horsepower be it 4 stroke
or 2 stroke. However consider that the modern 2 stroke now is typically
85% efficient and it fires every time the piston hits top dead centre,
so it will make more power for the same tuning level than a 4 stroke of
the same capacity. Don't forget though the 582 is not that highly tuned
or stressed. Look at the power it makes as a 583 !
I think a lot of this talk about 2 strokes being inferior is not
accurate understanding and knowledge. I put faith in mine to bring me
home from Perth and I intend to fly it back there and home again one
day. Also in maybe 12 months I will fly it to Alice Springs in the
centre of Australia. Am I mad ? You be the judge !
Regards the 532 I don't know a lot about this except heresay but
there is a lot of that ! Anyway for what it's worth as it's only my
impression the 532 made similar power to the 582 but it was more highly
tuned and peaky. Not really suitable for the purpose hence the 582 was
born and later developed to what it is today. The old 532 lacks that
development. Also such an old motor is likely to have rust spots on
needle bearings apart from the bore etc etc. The needle bearings though
are the ones that are going to cause very early failure. So all in all I
totally agree with the general concensus. Use the 532 for a boat anchor
or at least in some situation where a failure is not serious.
If anyone has some cold hard facts against two strokes by all means
state them but just generally knocking the 2 stroke without fact is
pointless. I ran and owned an electrical business for 30 years before I
sold up and retired. Part of that time we sold lawnmowers and we only
ever sold one 4 stroke on special request. All the others were 2
strokes. However the general public opinion was against the 2 stroke and
this is just the same thing happening here against 2 strokes. Some guys
understand 4 strokes but not 2 strokes so yes for them I guess a 4
stroke is the better choice.
Blaming 2 strokes because one had starter gear problems is typical
of the problem. Could not the same thing happen to a four stroke ?
OK enough on this subject I'll shut up now I've tried to point this
out and by the way I do like the idea of the Geo engine. The one thing I
don't like about the 582 is it doesn't like going below 3,000 RPM. I
have seen a Geo running dead smooth and I assume it will be more
economical. However it won't fit under the cowl as well or weigh the
same. Can't win them all.
Rex Shaw
Australia.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
No virus found in this incoming message.
14/07/2006
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: broken push rod suberu ea81 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Was this/these failures with hydraulic or solid lifters. All the original
turbo engines came out with hyd, any faulures in with these? John A.
Kirk,
Michael Harter had an NSI EA81 in his Model IV several years back. On
takeoff one time he lost power (not all) throttled back and returned to the
airport. He discovered several (not sure how many) broken push rods. He
replaced then with parts from NSI.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
kirk hull wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I had an in flight failure last week of N205AK's Suberu ea81. She was landed
with no problems and everyone is ok. The push rod on the # 4 cylinder (
Front right)snaped. Attached is a picture of the part . it made a clean
break almost dead center on the rod completely in to. With only 20 hrs on
the engine and only 5 in flight this should not have happened. Has anyone
else seen this before and why did it happen? P.S. it is a 100HP Stratus
conversion.
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Message 51
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| Subject: | broken push rod suberu ea81 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
If you might post a shot to me too Rick, do the NSI turbos have hyd lifters?
John
I will be out to the airport on the 17th and would be most happy to do
that.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 5:27 AM
are you using an NSI and if so would you have a push rod handy to
photograph? Please don't remove one but if you have one just laying
around I would really like to see a pic.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Anderson
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Yes Rick, mine are are much thinker too and non turbo are the same. It
does look like an after market item. John A.
_____
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Humm, that looks like an aluminum custom type. Is it? The stock ones, at
least on the turbo engine are steal, fat, real beefy. I don't have
experience with the non-turbo, maybe someone else can comment. I would
change to the tougher style, not good. Let me know.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:26 PM
sorry I must have forgotten to attach the photo so here it is
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:09 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I had an in flight failure last week of N205AK's Suberu ea81. She was
landed with no problems and everyone is ok. The push rod on the # 4
cylinder ( Front right)snaped. Attached is a picture of the part . it
made a clean break almost dead center on the rod completely in to. With
only 20 hrs on the engine and only 5 in flight this should not have
happened. Has anyone else seen this before and why did it happen? P.S.
it is a 100HP Stratus =========================Navigator to Photoshare,
and http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
=========================List Wiki!
=========================http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
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