----------------------------------------------------------
                           Kitfox-List Digest Archive
                                      ---
                     Total Messages Posted Fri 07/21/06: 26
           ----------------------------------------------------------
 
 
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:18 AM - Re: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba  (Barry West)
     2. 03:18 AM - Re: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh  (Lynn Matteson)
     3. 04:31 AM - Re: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba  (Dave and Diane)
     4. 07:04 AM - Re: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba  (flier)
     5. 07:04 AM - Re: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba  (flier)
     6. 07:53 AM - Spreader bar  (Shane Sather)
     7. 08:18 AM - Re: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh  (Rex)
     8. 08:19 AM - Re: Angle of Attack  (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
     9. 08:23 AM - HP formula  (Fox5flyer)
    10. 08:25 AM - Re: Mike Fisher  (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
    11. 08:31 AM - Re: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba  (Joel Mapes)
    12. 08:59 AM - Re: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh  (Marco Menezes)
    13. 09:31 AM - Re: Mike Fisher  (Steve Wilson)
    14. 10:23 AM - Re: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh  (Fox5flyer)
    15. 10:26 AM - Re: Speaking of crashes...  (2thesky)
    16. 12:10 PM - Spokane, WA Fly In  (Don McIntosh)
    17. 12:30 PM - Re: Utah 'Fox flyers  (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
    18. 01:21 PM - Re: Spokane, WA Fly In  (kitfoxmike)
    19. 03:11 PM - Re: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh  (JC)
    20. 05:40 PM - Re: Angle of Attack  (Noel Loveys)
    21. 05:46 PM - Re: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba  (Noel Loveys)
    22. 05:59 PM - Re: Model II Brakes  (Elaine Erickson)
    23. 06:31 PM - Re: HP formula  (Norm)
    24. 06:51 PM - Re: UTAH flyers  (Malcolmbru@AOL.COM)
    25. 07:31 PM - Idaho back country trip  (Lowell Fitt)
    26. 10:49 PM - Re: [POSSIBLE SPAM] Spreader bar  (Shane Sather)
 
 
 
________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 03:18:30 AM PST US
From: "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.com>

Francisco, you really need to sandpaper the area where the new paint will 
go.  I suggest fine sandpaper, about 300 grit, first then mask and paint. 
After the new paint is fully cured, come back and color finish the whole 
area.  I think there are directions for this in Polyfiber's instruction 
book.  Start with 600 grit, then 1000, then 1500, then maybe 2000.  After 
that use medium and then fine polishing compound.

Some others on the list may tell you a better or easier way but generally, 
this would work.  Call the Jon Goldenbaum at Polyfiber.

Barry West

----- Original Message ----- 
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 10:35 PM


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco 
> <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
>
> I want to paint some orange lines with polytone over
> my wings already painted with the same material. For a
> pair of years I have used carnauba to keep surfaces
> protected. Does anyone know how I could clean the
> surface to remove carnauba before painting it?
>
> I appreciate,
>
> Francisco Icaza.
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> La mejor conexin a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a tu correo por $100 al 
> mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 03:18:30 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>

For a motorhome, it is $4.95/ft each way. For even my small Toyota 21 
footer, this is ~$100 each way, plus a round-trip cost of $79 (senior 
price), for me. How they charge extra for the driver of the rig is 
beyond me, but they do.

Lynn
do not archive
On Friday, July 21, 2006, at 12:46  AM, mdps_mc@swoca.net wrote:

> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: mdps_mc@swoca.net
>
> I made this trip a few years back in a car and it was a nice trip and 
> a change of pace.  Plus I didn't haver to deal with Chiago.  I don't 
> remember it being this expensive.
> Mike Chaney
> Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> To:kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I just went to the S.S. Badger site (Ludington, MI to Manitowoc,
> WI...four hours) and found out that it is a ~$280 round-trip for me and
> my MH...not cheap, but factor in that "orange cone" drive through
> Chicago, and it might be money well spent....am I getting old when I
> start thinking about saving wear and tear on the old bod/brain by
> spending money? Must be....gonna wait until I pick up the Trip-ticks at
> AAA tomorrow, then flip a coin.
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
>


________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 04:31:59 AM PST US
From: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>

Francisco,

You will now thank your lucky stars for having polytone on an aircraft you 
want to refinish with polytone. Doing this is a lot easier to do successfully 
that putting anything over something other than polytone.

Getting the wax off has to be done. Any residue left will result in peeling, 
pinholes, spots of all kinds  and discoloration.

To remove the wax (and any other oil or grunt) you should use a solvent that 
will dissolve the wax, but not ther polytone. In the auto painting business, 
these products are cleverly called "Wax and grease removers". Poly fiber has 
two products of this type for this purpose "Metl-sol" - part number C-2200  
which is a strong solvent for this purpose and "Paint cleaning Solvent" part 
number C-2210 which is a mild solvent. 

There are other products from the auto repair sector which are equivalent and,

if you go this route, just be sure you use one which is compatible with 
lacquer (Poly tone behaves a lot like lacquer) 

If you do any experimenting with solvents other than those from Polyfiber - 
just be sure to try it our on a small spot before going wild with it. The 
trick is to use a solvent which dissolves the wax and crud, but not the 
polytone. Be sure to solvent wash multiple times. Use clean rags and throw 
them away frequently enough so you don't recontaminate the surface.

For sure, I would recommend, since you are using polyfiber systems in your 
refinishing, give one of their representatives a call - people who work with 
a particular product line usually know what works best with their product 
line.

If you have some experience with re-finishing, you should be pretty well 
prepared to do this task - if not - really be sure that you talk to a 
poly-fiber representative. 

On cars, we usually degrease, then go after it with wet or dry sandpaper - 
there is not a lot you can hurt on cars (other than glass & chrome) - but 
there is lot you can damage on fabric airplanes. You have to be careful with 
sandpaper on fabric - remember that there is a UV protection coat under the 
polytone you don't want to disrupt. There is always a possibility that a 
person may have to do spot repairs going into the lower coats - in this case 
be sure to reapply the lower coats.

Good luck with your project - you should have a really nice looking airplane 
with new paint.

Sincerely,

Dave S
St Paul, MN 
KF-7 Trigrear
On Thursday 20 July 2006 10:35 pm, icaza francisco wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
>
> I want to paint some orange lines with polytone over
> my wings already painted with the same material. For a
> pair of years I have used carnauba to keep surfaces
> protected. Does anyone know how I could clean the
> surface to remove carnauba before painting it?
>
> I appreciate,
>
> Francisco Icaza.
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> La mejor conexin a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a tu correo por $100 al
> mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
>
>


________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 07:04:26 AM PST US
From: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>

Hey Francisco,

I've seen a couple of good replys and I'll chime in 
as I have some experience with this situation.

As already stated, after you've masked get some 
polyfiber paint cleaning solvent and wipe down the 
surface to be painted.  Do it a couple of times and 
use good clean paper towels.  Don't let the cleaning 
solvent lay wet on the paint.  Wipe it on then off.

Then, use Polyfiber paint rejuvenator to 'loosen' the 
surface of the existing Polytone.  Be sure to get the 
surface loosened.  If not, the new Polytone will not 
adhere to the old Polytone.  The best bet is to be 
sure to do the refinish in a cool place to allow the 
solvent vapors to loosen up the surface well before 
they flash off.  Use plenty of retarder in the paint 
you're spraying to allow it to bond with the dried 
paint.

If you don't get the surface loosened, once that new 
Polytone dries you'll find that it'll simply peel 
right off the surface.

Regards,

Ted

--- Original Message ---
carnauba

>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco 
<franicaza@yahoo.com.m
>x>
>
>I want to paint some orange lines with polytone over
>my wings already painted with the same material. For 
a
>pair of years I have used carnauba to keep surfaces
>protected. Does anyone know how I could clean the
>surface to remove carnauba before painting it?
>
>I appreciate,
>
>Francisco Icaza.
>
>
> 
>
>
>	
>_____________________________________________________
______ 
>La mejor conexi=F3n a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a 
tu correo por $100 a
>l mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx 
>
>
>_-
=================
======
>==================3
D=======
>==========
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
=================
======
>==================3
D=======
>==========
Wiki!
>_-
=================
======
>==================3
D=======
>==========
List Admin.
>_-
=================
======
>==================3
D=======
>==========
>
>
> 
> 
> 
>
>


________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 07:04:26 AM PST US
From: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>

Hey Francisco,

I've seen a couple of good replys and I'll chime in 
as I have some experience with this situation.

As already stated, after you've masked get some 
polyfiber paint cleaning solvent and wipe down the 
surface to be painted.  Do it a couple of times and 
use good clean paper towels.  Don't let the cleaning 
solvent lay wet on the paint.  Wipe it on then off.

Then, use Polyfiber paint rejuvenator to 'loosen' the 
surface of the existing Polytone.  Be sure to get the 
surface loosened.  If not, the new Polytone will not 
adhere to the old Polytone.  The best bet is to be 
sure to do the refinish in a cool place to allow the 
solvent vapors to loosen up the surface well before 
they flash off.  Use plenty of retarder in the paint 
you're spraying to allow it to bond with the dried 
paint.

If you don't get the surface loosened, once that new 
Polytone dries you'll find that it'll simply peel 
right off the surface.

Regards,

Ted
--- Original Message ---
carnauba

>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco 
<franicaza@yahoo.com.m
>x>
>
>I want to paint some orange lines with polytone over
>my wings already painted with the same material. For 
a
>pair of years I have used carnauba to keep surfaces
>protected. Does anyone know how I could clean the
>surface to remove carnauba before painting it?
>
>I appreciate,
>
>Francisco Icaza.
>
>
> 
>
>
>	
>_____________________________________________________
______ 
>La mejor conexi=F3n a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a 
tu correo por $100 a
>l mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx 
>
>
>_-
=================
======
>==================3
D=======
>==========
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
=================
======
>==================3
D=======
>==========
Wiki!
>_-
=================
======
>==================3
D=======
>==========
List Admin.
>_-
=================
======
>==================3
D=======
>==========
>
>
> 
> 
> 
>
>


________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 07:53:19 AM PST US
From: "Shane Sather" <shane2005@qiniq.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spreader bar

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Shane Sather" <shane2005@qiniq.com>

I have a Light square on floats and I am looking for a spreader bar. Would 
anyone know where I could get one.

Thanks

Shane 


________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 08:18:48 AM PST US
From: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>

While I can't make it this year I'm following this thread and making 
plans for my 1st trip next year. If anyone is willing to pass on tips on 
economic lodging/camping choices please advise me off line.
Thanks
Rex
M2 Colorado


________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 08:19:17 AM PST US
From: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Angle of Attack

If you are installing the Dynon unit I believe that you are to use the a/c datum
which in this case is the door bottom tube.

John Kerr

-------------- Original message -------------- 

Rocky

It is a function of weight distribution among other things, but basically it is
a variable.  You should be able to assume that it is level with the bottom of
the door cut out.  I don't know much about remote compasses but it must be able
to handle some variation in attitude.  It should be accurate when the tail
wheel is on the ground.

Barry West

Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:34 PM


Does anyone know the approximate angle of attack for a Series 7 at level cruise,
912s.
This is for the purpose of mounting a remote compass.

Thanks
Rocky Whitman
<html><body>
<DIV>If you are installing the Dynon unit I believe that you are to use the a/c
datum which in this case is the door bottom tube.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Barry West"
&lt;barry@pgtc.com&gt; <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Rocky</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is a function of weight distribution among other
things, but basically it is a variable.&nbsp; You should be able to assume that
it is level with the<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><STRONG> </STRONG>bottom
of the door cut out.&nbsp; I don't know much about remote compasses but
it must be able to handle some variation in attitude.&nbsp; It should be accurate
when the tail wheel is on the ground.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Barry West</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>From:</STRONG> <A title=rocky1@moment.net href="mailto:rocky1@moment.net">Denise and Rocky Whitman</A> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=kitfox-list@matronics.com href="mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com">kitfox-list@matronics.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:34 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Kitfox-List: Angle of Attack</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Does anyone know the approximate angle of attack for a Series 7 at level cruise,
912s.</DIV>
<DIV>This is for the purpose of mounting a remote compass.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Rocky Whitman</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>


________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 08:23:33 AM PST US
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Kitfox-List: HP formula

Some time ago one of our members provided a formula for figuring 
horsepower by knowing fuel burn, rpm, CCs, etc.  There was also an 
efficiency factor in there that was different for air cooled and liquid 
cooled engines.
Can anybody provide this formula.  My algebra is mostly long forgotten 
so any variations would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Deke

________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 08:25:34 AM PST US
From: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mike Fisher


Some one mentioned flying across the lake with Mike Fisher.  Let him know that
the Utah 'Fox flyers ARE coming via the big aluminum tube and would like to chat
with him.  

John Kerr
435-757-7420
<html><body>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Some one mentioned flying across the lake with Mike Fisher.&nbsp; Let him
know that the Utah 'Fox flyers ARE coming via the big aluminum tube and would
like to chat with him.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>435-757-7420</DIV></body></html>


________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 08:31:06 AM PST US
From: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>

Hi Francisco,

I've used NAPA Wax & Grease remover, part #15250. Be sure to wear a good 
mask when using it.

Joel
Model 5 912

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee 


________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 08:59:02 AM PST US
From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh

Hey Lynn & Deke and other Michigan Kitfoxers headed for OSH.
   
  Don't know about the new "rapid" car ferry from South Haven to Milwaukee, but
I've taken the S.S. Badger from Ludington to Manitiwok several times. Deke, you're
right that there probably isn't time saved from going through Chicago, at
least not on the Badger. And it isn't cheap either. But who wants to drive thru
Chicago? And there's more to life than hurry and money right?
   
  If you've never ferried across, do it at least once. It's about a 2-3 hour cruise depending on the weather, which can get interesting. The Badger is an old coal-fired railroad ferry so it can easily take your motorhome. Lay out on the deck and enjoy the sun. Bring raingear and stay out on deck (practically alone!) during frequent Summer thunderstorms. Osh is about another hour from Manitiwok around the north shore of Lake Winnebago. There's a great maritime museam near the docks in Manitiwok, which showcases WWII "Gato Class" submarines, many of which were built there.  Here's their website: www.ssbadger.com 

  Still trying to find a ride there and back early part of next week. Hopefully,
I'll see you all at the big show.

Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" 

Can't help you on that one Lynn. I know some people take the ferry, but I
don't know from where or how much or where it goes. I would think when you
factor in the waiting time and cost of the ferry, you might be just as well
off to drive around the bottom of Lake Michigan and right on up to Oshkosh.
Just a thought.
I just Googled "Lake Michigan Ferry" and got a ton of hits. You should be
able to find out what you need there.
Deke
do not archive

>
> Right you are, Deke....yeah, almost forgot about the bike thing. In
> fact the bike that I have was purchased right up there near OSH, while
> Duane and I were out cruising around, charging up the MH
> batteries....say, I'm thinking of taking the ferry across...any words
> of wisdom? I took it from Wis. to MIch. back in about '87, so I'm
> familiar with the drill, but that was with a car, not a small motorhome.
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
> On Thursday, July 20, 2006, at 02:26 PM, Fox5flyer wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
> > 
> >
> > I wouldn't count on getting a decent spot at any of those flightline
> > camps
> > at this late date Lynn. I've talked to people who get in "weeks"
> > ahead of
> > time. Might get lucky though. If you take a bicycle, anyplace in camp
> > Scholler is close.
> > Deke
> > do not archive
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:24 PM
>
>


Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
 		
---------------------------------

________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 09:31:00 AM PST US
From: "Steve Wilson" <Wilson@REinfo.org>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mike Fisher

John,
You mentioned the Utah fox flyers.  Is there an organized group of fox 
flyers in Utah.  If so, I would be interested in the info on the group.
Steve Wilson
Wilson@REinfo.org

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: kerrjohna@comcast.net 
  To: kitfox-list@matronics.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 9:25 AM
  Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mike Fisher


  Some one mentioned flying across the lake with Mike Fisher.  Let him 
know that the Utah 'Fox flyers ARE coming via the big aluminum tube and 
would like to chat with him.  

  John Kerr
  435-757-7420

________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 10:23:27 AM PST US
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh

Michiganders to Oshkosh.
I know this is late notice, but I probably have room for a 3rd person to 
share expenses for Oshkosh.  Leaving my house in Mikado at 0700 Saturday 
morning going north then west across the UP of MI.
Deke

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Marco Menezes 
  To: kitfox-list@matronics.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 11:57 AM
  Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh


  Hey Lynn & Deke and other Michigan Kitfoxers headed for OSH.

  Don't know about the new "rapid" car ferry from South Haven to 
Milwaukee, but I've taken the S.S. Badger from Ludington to Manitiwok 
several times. Deke, you're right that there probably isn't time saved 
from going through Chicago, at least not on the Badger. And it isn't 
cheap either. But who wants to drive thru Chicago? And there's more to 
life than hurry and money right?

  If you've never ferried across, do it at least once. It's about a 2-3 
hour cruise depending on the weather, which can get interesting. The 
Badger is an old coal-fired railroad ferry so it can easily take your 
motorhome. Lay out on the deck and enjoy the sun. Bring raingear and 
stay out on deck (practically alone!) during frequent Summer 
thunderstorms. Osh is about another hour from Manitiwok around the north 
shore of Lake Winnebago. There's a great maritime museam near the docks 
in Manitiwok, which showcases WWII "Gato Class" submarines, many of 
which were built there.  Here's their website: www.ssbadger.com 

  Still trying to find a ride there and back early part of next week. 
Hopefully, I'll see you all at the big show.

  Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" 

    Can't help you on that one Lynn. I know some people take the ferry, 
but I
    don't know from where or how much or where it goes. I would think 
when you
    factor in the waiting time and cost of the ferry, you might be just 
as well
    off to drive around the bottom of Lake Michigan and right on up to 
Oshkosh.
    Just a thought.
    I just Googled "Lake Michigan Ferry" and got a ton of hits. You 
should be
    able to find out what you need there.
    Deke
    do not archive

    >
    > Right you are, Deke....yeah, almost forgot about the bike thing. 
In
    > fact the bike that I have was purchased right up there near OSH, 
while
    > Duane and I were out cruising around, charging up the MH
    > batteries....say, I'm thinking of taking the ferry across...any 
words
    > of wisdom? I took it from Wis. to MIch. back in about '87, so I'm
    > familiar with the drill, but that was with a car, not a small 
motorhome.
    >
    > Lynn
    > do not archive
    > On Thursday, July 20, 2006, at 02:26 PM, Fox5flyer wrote:
    >
    > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
    > > 
    > >
    > > I wouldn't count on getting a decent spot at any of those 
flightline
    > > camps
    > > at this late date Lynn. I've talked to people

________________________________  Message 15  ____________________________________


Time: 10:26:36 AM PST US
From: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Speaking of crashes...

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>


Lynn Matteson wrote:
>  It was a little unnerving to have to take off and land 
> with that wreckage looming up ahead, but nothing that an "old pro" of 
> 30-some solo hours couldn't handle.  : )


Speaking of unnerving and maybe a little discouraging........The following is an
account of my flying experience, and I hope it isn't an omen. I finally had
the money, time, and blessing from my wife to fulfill the lifelong dream of taking
flying lessons.  I was standing at the counter in the FBO counting out 100
dollar bills to the instructor sealing the deal, not believing this was actually
going to happen after all these years.  I remembered my neighbor taking me
for my first ride at 7 in his '46 C-140 and being hopelessly addicted ever since.
I was taking it all in when I saw,  through the picture window behind the
instructor, a Cherokee crash while trying to return to the runway after the
engine quit.  No one hurt, I shrugged it off and began my lessons.  I soloed on
Sept. 10th, 2001.  After flight operations could be resumed and I had lots of
remedial dual, I soloed again weeks later.  Three days after that, I was thrown
from a horse and was out with a broken arm and lots of surgery for five months.
A cast from my shoulder to the wrist between surgeries made flying impossible.
I got back in the saddle again, both on horses and in the air, and soloed
once more.  On my third first solo, the engine quit in the Warrior I was
flying as I turned final.  Luckily, I was a little high and my instructor was
a guy that strongly believed in making me fly in strong, gusty, crosswinds and
made sure I was intimate with side and forward slips to a landing.  Nothing broken,
airplane just quit, I never found out why, because the next day the instructor,
his airplanes, and my money was gone, never to be heard from again. 
The next week, I had to relocate after being laid off of my job.  After the typical
pains of re-establishment in a new town, getting caught up financially from
the lay off, and dealing with an unexpected medical problem that wife had,
I am finally looking for an instructor again.  I have lots of hours, both dual
and solo, two student pilot certificates, and charts that are five years old.
I do ha!
 ve the r

eceipt for the lesson on the day of my first solo and my first student pilot's
certificate.  I won't be getting rid of those.  I just wish I had the logbook!!

--------
Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49065#49065


________________________________  Message 16  ____________________________________


Time: 12:10:05 PM PST US
From: "Don McIntosh" <don@contractorsnorthwest.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spokane, WA Fly In

Everyone,

EAA Chapter 79 is hosting a Fly In tomorrow 7/22/06 at Felts Field in
Spokane WA. I know this is a late announcement, but I know some of you are
still looking for an excuse to fly somewhere this weekend! I know it is
going to be hot but we're hoping for the best. Food and beverage are
available including a sit-down dinner around 6:00 with a slide show of
projects (or projects that showed up for the day). 


Don McIntosh

Series 7 in the process


________________________________  Message 17  ____________________________________


Time: 12:30:32 PM PST US
From: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Utah 'Fox flyers

No, not organized. 3 in Logan, 1 in Brigham, 1-2 in Ogden,  1 @ Cedar Hills.


-------------- Original message -------------- 

John,
You mentioned the Utah fox flyers.  Is there an organized group of fox flyers in
Utah.  If so, I would be interested in the info on the group.
Steve Wilson
Wilson@REinfo.org

----- Original Message ----- 
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 9:25 AM


Some one mentioned flying across the lake with Mike Fisher.  Let him know that
the Utah 'Fox flyers ARE coming via the big aluminum tube and would like to chat
with him.  

John Kerr
435-757-7420
<html><body>
<DIV>No, not organized. 3 in Logan, 1 in Brigham, 1-2 in Ogden,&nbsp; 1 @ Cedar
Hills.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Steve Wilson"
&lt;Wilson@REinfo.org&gt; <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You mentioned the Utah fox flyers.&nbsp; Is there
an organized group of fox flyers in Utah.&nbsp; If so, I would be interested in
the info on the group.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Steve Wilson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="mailto:Wilson@REinfo.org">Wilson@REinfo.org</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=kerrjohna@comcast.net href="mailto:kerrjohna@comcast.net">kerrjohna@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=kitfox-list@matronics.com href="mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com">kitfox-list@matronics.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 21, 2006 9:25 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Kitfox-List: Mike Fisher</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Some one mentioned flying across the lake with Mike Fisher.&nbsp; Let him
know that the Utah 'Fox flyers ARE coming via the big aluminum tube and would
like to chat with him.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>435-757-7420</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>


________________________________  Message 18  ____________________________________


Time: 01:21:29 PM PST US
From: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Spokane, WA Fly In

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>

Or one better and fly down to Boyer park on the snake river and join the good folks
with the WPA(washington pilots association), IAA(idaho aviation association).

--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49134#49134


________________________________  Message 19  ____________________________________


Time: 03:11:53 PM PST US
From: "JC" <jc@arcom.com.au>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Meeting in Oshkosh

Hi to all going to Oshkosh
I would love to have made it to show off the new Aeropup see www.aeropup.com 
but alas I cant due to pressure here, would like to mention that I am due to 
retire and do more flying and travelling so therefore the Aeropp business 
infracstructure is up for sale while I am happy to stay involved in 
marketing to promote the export side...please spread the word
the business plan was last updated in late 2005,  so some things have 
changed but will give you a good feel for whats happening, if you are 
serious I will update it for you, basically we have now built a duplicate 
two seater framework jig to speed up production in anticipation of export 
orders,  one  Queensland customer recently picking up a kit , he is a 
L.A.M.E. and investigated choices very carefully before deciding on the 
Aeropup, his reasons for purchase were due to the large fuel tanks, fast 
fold wings system and high cruise speed,  the guarranteed orders for 20 
Aeropups is included in the sale, it represents a substantial return on 
investment, I am happy to stay involved in a marketing role to develop the 
export side in particular, either as a consultant or commissioned agent. 
Note that I am selling the infrastructure, orders, assetts, jigs, tooling, 
cad drawings, documentation, stock on hand, trademark, registerd design, 
business names and website, it is not being sold as a business and therefore 
financials will not be provided,  it requires someone who is entrepenurial 
in nature and knows what is happening in the light plane industry and can 
see the future and possibilitys, I firmly believe that this project has a 
great future and will become a legend in Aviation history,   I believe this 
is a better product and safer than the Jabiru.
To take the project on to fully certified "fly away" or turnkey production 
is very viable, that would open up a greater market (flying schools) and is 
now becoming a real possibility with the new LSA category due to the 
Aeopup's specs and dual category status, but it is beyond my capability due 
to time and health constraints,  I would like to see it happen much quicker 
than I am capable of doing.
best regards
John Cotton 

________________________________  Message 20  ____________________________________


Time: 05:40:37 PM PST US
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Angle of Attack

What type of compass??  Fluxgate??


Noel

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry West
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 6:59 PM


Rocky

It is a function of weight distribution among other things, but 
basically it
is a variable.  You should be able to assume that it is level with the
bottom of the door cut out.  I don't know much about remote compasses 
but it
must be able to handle some variation in attitude.  It should be 
accurate
when the tail wheel is on the ground.

Barry West


Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:34 PM

Does anyone know the approximate angle of attack for a Series 7 at level
cruise, 912s.
This is for the purpose of mounting a remote compass.

Thanks
Rocky Whitman


________________________________  Message 21  ____________________________________


Time: 05:46:48 PM PST US
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>

Only if you want to paint to stay on.  If you are putting the lines on for a
temporary reason paint over the wax.

Noel


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 
> icaza francisco
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 1:06 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba
> 
> 
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco 
> <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
> 
> I want to paint some orange lines with polytone over
> my wings already painted with the same material. For a
> pair of years I have used carnauba to keep surfaces
> protected. Does anyone know how I could clean the
> surface to remove carnauba before painting it?
> 
> I appreciate,
> 
> Francisco Icaza.
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 	
> 	
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________ 
> La mejor conexin a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a tu correo 
> por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 


________________________________  Message 22  ____________________________________


Time: 05:59:31 PM PST US
From: "Elaine Erickson" <elaine5056@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model II Brakes

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Elaine Erickson" <elaine5056@msn.com>

Thanks to everyone who replied to this message.  The info was very helpful.

- Verne


>From: "Elaine Erickson" <Elaine5056@msn.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Model II Brakes
>Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:55:10 -0400
>
>I purchased my model II completed so I haven't had to work with the brakes 
>so far.  I need to fill up the brake fluid but there isn't a reservoir by 
>the pedals.  What's the best method for filling up the system?
>
>- Verne


________________________________  Message 23  ____________________________________


Time: 06:31:45 PM PST US
From: Norm <nebchmp@wcc.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: HP formula

Deke, Is this what you are looking for?   Norm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of us may be getting a bit off track with fuel burn and horsepower and
all that stuff.

The key thing here is specific fuel consumption (SFC).
A typical air cooled engine (Lyc) will burn about .45 pounds of fuel per
horsepower produced per hour.
A more efficient water cooled engine will get about .40.

These are just about the best numbers you will ever ever get.  In other
words, you can NOT get more horsepower without increasing your fuel burn.
This is an absolute.

So, with a well tuned Soob engine, you will burn .40 pounds per hp per hr.
A 6 gal per hr fuel burn at 6 pounds per gal. (weight) will be 36 pounds of
fuel burned per hour.  (6 x 6)
36 divided by .40 (your SFC rate) is 90 horsepower.

This means that if you are flying along and burning 6 gph of fuel, your Soob
engine is cranking out 90 horsepower.

6.25 ghp = 94 HP
5.2 gph   = 78 HP   and so on.

A Lycoming has a less efficient SFC and so a fuel burn rate of say 9 gph
would be:

9 x 6 / .45 = 120 HP

Be very sceptical if someone says that they are getting 170 HP on 5 to 7 gph
fuel burn.  It just can't be done.

P/S  Diesel engines (automobile type) have SFC's at around .35 pounds per HP
per hr.  This is why they get such great mileage.

Jeff Liot
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fox5flyer wrote:

> Some time ago one of our members provided a formula for figuring 
> horsepower by knowing fuel burn, rpm, CCs, etc.  There was also an 
> efficiency factor in there that was different for air cooled and 
> liquid cooled engines.
> Can anybody provide this formula.  My algebra is mostly long forgotten 
> so any variations would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Deke
>  


________________________________  Message 24  ____________________________________


Time: 06:51:52 PM PST US
From: Malcolmbru@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: UTAH  flyers

is there anybody in utah or close that knows a  Geezer called  Tex?   He 
lives on the Colorado river and fly's a Just aircraft  now  ??

________________________________  Message 25  ____________________________________


Time: 07:31:52 PM PST US
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Idaho back country trip

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>

Steve,

I was just roaming around the Frapper map per the notice of new updates and 
found you in Calgary.  Our group is planning - as of now - on being at 
Priest Lake, Idaho the week of the 20th of August with a plan to enter 
Canada to see a friend of one of the guys.

Don't know what your schedule is that week, but maybe we could hook up 
somewhere.

Lowell 


________________________________  Message 26  ____________________________________


Time: 10:49:27 PM PST US
From: "Shane Sather" <shane2005@qiniq.com>
Subject: Re: [POSSIBLE SPAM]  Kitfox-List: Spreader bar

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Shane Sather" <shane2005@qiniq.com>

I should explain this better.

I have a Light squared with full lotus floats. The mounting system for the 
floats were from Skystar and were designed I guess for the full lotus float 
system. I need to replace a speader bar and would like to know if anyone has 
one for sale or knows of a company that sells them.

Thank you

Shane
----- Original Message ----- 
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 8:51 AM


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Shane Sather" <shane2005@qiniq.com>
>
> I have a Light square on floats and I am looking for a spreader bar. Would 
> anyone know where I could get one.
>
> Thanks
>
> Shane
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>