Kitfox-List Digest Archive

Mon 07/24/06


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:19 AM - Re: Setting prop to revs (John Anderson)
     2. 03:02 AM - Re: Setting prop to revs (QSS)
     3. 05:37 AM - Re: Setting prop to revs (Noel Loveys)
     4. 10:49 AM - Re: Setting prop to revs (AMuller589@aol.com)
     5. 02:22 PM - Re: Setting prop to revs (QSS)
     6. 03:19 PM - Re: Setting prop to revs (wingsdown)
     7. 03:49 PM - Priming spars on QB Wings?? (darinh)
     8. 03:52 PM - Re: Setting prop to revs (QSS)
     9. 04:09 PM - Re: Setting prop to revs (wingsdown)
    10. 04:29 PM - Re: Setting prop to revs (John Anderson)
    11. 04:32 PM - Re: Setting prop to revs (John Anderson)
    12. 04:38 PM - Re: Priming spars on QB Wings?? (John Anderson)
    13. 04:38 PM - Re: Priming spars on QB Wings?? (jeff puls)
    14. 04:45 PM - Re: Setting prop to revs (John Anderson)
    15. 05:00 PM - Re: Setting prop to revs (wingsdown)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:19:47 AM PST US
    From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Setting prop to revs
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:02:09 AM PST US
    From: "QSS" <msm@byterocky.net>
    Subject: Re: Setting prop to revs
    John, its the NSI 108 HP model. I think they are tweeked up a bit because the standard EA 81 is much lower in HP than that. Im going to go with your figures when Im back in Yeppoon and see how it goes. I'll let you know the results. Cheers Graeme ----- Original Message ----- From: John Anderson To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:15 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Yes, they certainly seem high to me me Graeme....I have a friend with a normally asperated EA81 and limits 5500 max for t/o. Goes very well, he has upped the comp ratio a little and bigger carb. You can always set the prop to give you more RPM for that one-of if your underpowered a bit but will cost on cruise. But that little engine sure is going to last longer at lower RPM. Is it a std EA81 or have you tweeked it a little? I limit to 5000 for t/o but rearly need it and 4000 for cruise but then I'm turbo'd. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Hi John, thanks for the advice. I've been following the threads going back and forth between yourself and others with your own plane and being at the same point myself with engine info requirements Im really close to flying. The problem I have is that I was sent an NSI data sheet on engine performance and in it the advice was that take off engine revs should be around 6200. I shook my head in disbelieve at these figures and asked a mate who overhauled my engine what he thought and he agreed that the figures were high. I was wondering if the figures quoted are for the NSI engine with the CAP system. I dont know if that would make any difference or not but 6200 seem very high and more a kin to the 2 stroke rev range than a four stroke. Figures quoted in the NSI EA 81 OPERATING LIMITS are as follows. Idle RPM 1350-1400 Cruise RPM 3200-4500 Take off RPM 6200 Max Continuous RPM 5800 Never exceed RPM 6500 Regards Graeme ----- Original Message ----- From: John Anderson To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 2:09 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Fo a start Graeme, if you get 5000 static, that will certinly get you flying safely. At 4700 your'e very near top of the tq curve. John A. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi guys, I have my prop bolted on and will be experimenting with pitch soon but as I am unsure what my max static revs should be I am a bit concerned. Can some body with an NSI non turbo and ground adjustable prop tell me what revs I should expect to see for best results. I was getting 4700 rpm flat out but feel I should be seeing over 5500 rpm. The prop I have put on is a 72 inch 3 blade composite which when installed into the hub comes down to 70inch. Regards Graeme Toft ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband! ========================= Navigator to much much http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ========================= ========================= ========================= =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Date: 21/07/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband! ========================= ========================= http://wiki.matronics.com ========================= ========================= =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No virus found in this incoming message. 21/07/2006


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:37:41 AM PST US
    From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: Setting prop to revs
    they are high.... for a car. My subie red lines around 6200. I haven't had it much over 5000. I guess that's why airplane engines age in hours instead of hundreds of thousands of miles. It sounds like they are saying up to 6200 maximum for lift off, 5800 max for climb out and cruise around 4000. I would probably use 6000, 5500 and 4200 respectively. Just a guess. Noel -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of QSS Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 3:36 AM Hi John, thanks for the advice. I've been following the threads going back and forth between yourself and others with your own plane and being at the same point myself with engine info requirements Im really close to flying. The problem I have is that I was sent an NSI data sheet on engine performance and in it the advice was that take off engine revs should be around 6200. I shook my head in disbelieve at these figures and asked a mate who overhauled my engine what he thought and he agreed that the figures were high. I was wondering if the figures quoted are for the NSI engine with the CAP system. I dont know if that would make any difference or not but 6200 seem very high and more a kin to the 2 stroke rev range than a four stroke. Figures quoted in the NSI EA 81 OPERATING LIMITS are as follows. Idle RPM 1350-1400 Cruise RPM 3200-4500 Take off RPM 6200 Max Continuous RPM 5800 Never exceed RPM 6500 Regards Graeme ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 2:09 PM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Fo a start Graeme, if you get 5000 static, that will certinly get you flying safely. At 4700 your'e very near top of the tq curve. John A. _____ Hi guys, I have my prop bolted on and will be experimenting with pitch soon but as I am unsure what my max static revs should be I am a bit concerned. Can some body with an NSI non turbo and ground adjustable prop tell me what revs I should expect to see for best results. I was getting 4700 rpm flat out but feel I should be seeing over 5500 rpm. The prop I have put on is a 72 inch 3 blade composite which when installed into the hub comes down to 70inch. Regards Graeme Toft _____ Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband! <http://g.msn.com/8HMBENNZ/2755??PS=47575> ========================= Navigator to much much http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ========================= ========================= ========================= =========== _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Date: 21/07/2006


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:49:02 AM PST US
    From: AMuller589@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Setting prop to revs
    These are the 2.2 liter 1999 engine limits recommended by EGGENFELLNER AIRCRAFT. As I recall the engine controller limits it to 6200 rpm Engine speed (EIS) Maximum 5600 rpm Climb 5200 rpm Cruise 4500 =93 4800 rpm Descent (sufficient to avoid gearbox rattle) We were unable to get a good climb/cruise with the ground adjustable pitch set for 5200 rpm at takeoff and settled on 4700rpm. That gives about 145mph IAS but only 400 fpm rate of climb. Takeoff is about 380 ft however so it a;pears we are getting good enough takeoff horsepower. Eggenfellner said fo r the type prop we used 4700 was good for the takeoff rpm. He only recommends inflight adjustable props and his turbocharged engines are run at full thro ttle 4700rpm in the Rans aircraft.


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:22:58 PM PST US
    From: "QSS" <msm@byterocky.net>
    Subject: Re: Setting prop to revs
    MessageThanks Noel and AMuller. Regards Graeme Do not archive ---- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:33 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs they are high.... for a car. My subie red lines around 6200. I haven't had it much over 5000. I guess that's why airplane engines age in hours instead of hundreds of thousands of miles. It sounds like they are saying up to 6200 maximum for lift off, 5800 max for climb out and cruise around 4000. I would probably use 6000, 5500 and 4200 respectively. Just a guess. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of QSS Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 3:36 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs Hi John, thanks for the advice. I've been following the threads going back and forth between yourself and others with your own plane and being at the same point myself with engine info requirements Im really close to flying. The problem I have is that I was sent an NSI data sheet on engine performance and in it the advice was that take off engine revs should be around 6200. I shook my head in disbelieve at these figures and asked a mate who overhauled my engine what he thought and he agreed that the figures were high. I was wondering if the figures quoted are for the NSI engine with the CAP system. I dont know if that would make any difference or not but 6200 seem very high and more a kin to the 2 stroke rev range than a four stroke. Figures quoted in the NSI EA 81 OPERATING LIMITS are as follows. Idle RPM 1350-1400 Cruise RPM 3200-4500 Take off RPM 6200 Max Continuous RPM 5800 Never exceed RPM 6500 Regards Graeme ----- Original Message ----- From: John Anderson To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 2:09 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Fo a start Graeme, if you get 5000 static, that will certinly get you flying safely. At 4700 your'e very near top of the tq curve. John A. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi guys, I have my prop bolted on and will be experimenting with pitch soon but as I am unsure what my max static revs should be I am a bit concerned. Can some body with an NSI non turbo and ground adjustable prop tell me what revs I should expect to see for best results. I was getting 4700 rpm flat out but feel I should be seeing over 5500 rpm. The prop I have put on is a 72 inch 3 blade composite which when installed into the hub comes down to 70inch. Regards Graeme Toft ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband! ========================= Navigator to much much http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ========================= ========================= ========================= =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Date: 21/07/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No virus found in this incoming message. 21/07/2006


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:19:00 PM PST US
    From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
    Subject: Setting prop to revs
    I would like to mention just incase you will be doing the initial test flights, some do, that as you lift off and the airspeed picks up the prop will unload and will RPMS increase. Not a big deal but should you go pass the 6200 rev limiter, if that is where you have it set, the engine will begin to cut out. Just pull back a bit on the go stick, but if you are not ready one might get spooked. Just thought I would mention it. Rick -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMuller589@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:45 AM These are the 2.2 liter 1999 engine limits recommended by EGGENFELLNER AIRCRAFT. As I recall the engine controller limits it to 6200 rpm Engine speed (EIS) Maximum 5600 rpm Climb 5200 rpm Cruise 4500 - 4800 rpm Descent (sufficient to avoid gearbox rattle) We were unable to get a good climb/cruise with the ground adjustable pitch set for 5200 rpm at takeoff and settled on 4700rpm. That gives about 145mph IAS but only 400 fpm rate of climb. Takeoff is about 380 ft however so it a;pears we are getting good enough takeoff horsepower. Eggenfellner said for the type prop we used 4700 was good for the takeoff rpm. He only recommends inflight adjustable props and his turbocharged engines are run at full throttle 4700rpm in the Rans aircraft.


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:49:18 PM PST US
    From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
    Subject: Priming spars on QB Wings??
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net> What is the groups consensus on whether to prime the front and rear wingspars or not? This is the QB wing so it would require a ton of masking to make for a clean look. What do you guys think and has someone done this before? Is it worth the extra time and work? I am in Utah...very dry climate...and the plane will never be on floats (at least as long as I own it) but is it a big point in the resale? I guess it wouldn't be a huge problem if I sprayed the self etching primer...who cares if it gets on the ribs a little in the process, they will be covered anyway. Thanks, Darin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49633#49633


    Message 8


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    Time: 03:52:24 PM PST US
    From: "QSS" <msm@byterocky.net>
    Subject: Re: Setting prop to revs
    MessageThanks Rick, do you feel that if I set the static revs at 5500 it would avoid passing the 6200 limit when the engine unloads. Regards Graeme ----- Original Message ----- From: wingsdown To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:14 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs I would like to mention just incase you will be doing the initial test flights, some do, that as you lift off and the airspeed picks up the prop will unload and will RPMS increase. Not a big deal but should you go pass the 6200 rev limiter, if that is where you have it set, the engine will begin to cut out. Just pull back a bit on the go stick, but if you are not ready one might get spooked. Just thought I would mention it. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMuller589@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:45 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs These are the 2.2 liter 1999 engine limits recommended by EGGENFELLNER AIRCRAFT. As I recall the engine controller limits it to 6200 rpm Engine speed (EIS) Maximum 5600 rpm Climb 5200 rpm Cruise 4500 - 4800 rpm Descent (sufficient to avoid gearbox rattle) We were unable to get a good climb/cruise with the ground adjustable pitch set for 5200 rpm at takeoff and settled on 4700rpm. That gives about 145mph IAS but only 400 fpm rate of climb. Takeoff is about 380 ft however so it a;pears we are getting good enough takeoff horsepower. Eggenfellner said for the type prop we used 4700 was good for the takeoff rpm. He only recommends inflight adjustable props and his turbocharged engines are run at full throttle 4700rpm in the Rans aircraft. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No virus found in this incoming message. 21/07/2006


    Message 9


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    Time: 04:09:31 PM PST US
    From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
    Subject: Setting prop to revs
    Think I would try 5200 first. Allot will depend on how you prefer to climb, steep or shallow. Rick -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of QSS Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 3:53 PM Thanks Rick, do you feel that if I set the static revs at 5500 it would avoid passing the 6200 limit when the engine unloads. Regards Graeme ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:14 AM I would like to mention just incase you will be doing the initial test flights, some do, that as you lift off and the airspeed picks up the prop will unload and will RPMS increase. Not a big deal but should you go pass the 6200 rev limiter, if that is where you have it set, the engine will begin to cut out. Just pull back a bit on the go stick, but if you are not ready one might get spooked. Just thought I would mention it. Rick -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMuller589@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:45 AM These are the 2.2 liter 1999 engine limits recommended by EGGENFELLNER AIRCRAFT. As I recall the engine controller limits it to 6200 rpm Engine speed (EIS) Maximum 5600 rpm Climb 5200 rpm Cruise 4500 - 4800 rpm Descent (sufficient to avoid gearbox rattle) We were unable to get a good climb/cruise with the ground adjustable pitch set for 5200 rpm at takeoff and settled on 4700rpm. That gives about 145mph IAS but only 400 fpm rate of climb. Takeoff is about 380 ft however so it a;pears we are getting good enough takeoff horsepower. Eggenfellner said for the type prop we used 4700 was good for the takeoff rpm. He only recommends inflight adjustable props and his turbocharged engines are run at full throttle 4700rpm in the Rans aircraft. _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Date: 21/07/2006


    Message 10


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    Time: 04:29:06 PM PST US
    From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Setting prop to revs
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 11


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    Time: 04:32:24 PM PST US
    From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Setting prop to revs
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:38:11 PM PST US
    From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Priming spars on QB Wings??
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:38:11 PM PST US
    From: "jeff puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Priming spars on QB Wings??
    --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com> Darin, By all means primer them. Use one of those little spray guns with the cup. It is used for detailing. That way you will get very little on the ribs. I used a paint brush on mine. Went on thuicker than I liked. Jeff classic IV. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:47 PM > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net> > > What is the groups consensus on whether to prime the front and rear > wingspars or not? This is the QB wing so it would require a ton of > masking to make for a clean look. What do you guys think and has someone > done this before? Is it worth the extra time and work? I am in > Utah...very dry climate...and the plane will never be on floats (at least > as long as I own it) but is it a big point in the resale? > > I guess it wouldn't be a huge problem if I sprayed the self etching > primer...who cares if it gets on the ribs a little in the process, they > will be covered anyway. > > Thanks, > > Darin > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49633#49633 > > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:45:32 PM PST US
    From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Setting prop to revs
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:00:45 PM PST US
    From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
    Subject: Setting prop to revs
    I think that is a personal decision based on ones own experience and experience level. OK I will throw this out there. I would set it so you can reach pattern altitude before the prop unloads enough to hit the rev limiter. However with the fixed prop you also have to consider what the max cruise speed is you want to be able to attain. That seems to be the eternal compromise with a fixed prop. Your setting will fall in there some where. But for now altitude is definitely your friend. Rick -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Anderson Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 4:45 PM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" What do you think Rick, it is better to have the prop set slightly on the fine side, don't need to use full throttle for the first t/o if it gets off ok, but there if you need it. I was truely amazed on first flight how quickly it flew. ~j~ _____ Think I would try 5200 first. Allot will depend on how you prefer to climb, steep or shallow. Rick -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of QSS Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 3:53 PM Thanks Rick, do you feel that if I set the static revs at 5500 it would avoid passing the 6200 limit when the engine unloads. Regards Graeme ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:14 AM I would like to mention just incase you will be doing the initial test flights, some do, that as you lift off and the airspeed picks up the prop will unload and will RPMS increase. Not a big deal but should you go pass the 6200 rev limiter, if that is where you have it set, the engine will begin to cut out. Just pull back a bit on the go stick, but if you are not ready one might get spooked. Just thought I would mention it. Rick -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMuller589@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:45 AM These are the 2.2 liter 1999 engine limits recommended by EGGENFELLNER AIRCRAFT. As I recall the engine controller limits it to 6200 rpm Engine speed (EIS) Maximum 5600 rpm Climb 5200 rpm Cruise 4500 - 4800 rpm Descent (sufficient to avoid gearbox rattle) We were unable to get a good climb/cruise with the ground adjustable pitch set for 5200 rpm at takeoff and settled on 4700rpm. That gives about 145mph IAS but only 400 fpm rate of climb. Takeoff is about 380 ft however so it a;pears we are getting good enough takeoff horsepower. Eggenfellner said for the type prop we used 4700 was good for the takeoff rpm. He only recommends inflight adjustable props and his turbocharged engines are run at full throttle 4700rpm in the Rans aircraft. _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Date: 21/07/2006 _____ Read the latest Hollywood gossip at XtraMSN <http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2737??PS=47575> Entertainment http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution




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