Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:47 AM - rpm cruise? (Mark Thompson)
2. 05:13 AM - Re: rpm cruise? (Dave)
3. 07:51 AM - Re: rpm cruise? (Lowell Fitt)
4. 08:28 AM - Re: rpm cruise? (Dave)
5. 11:44 AM - article (Marco Menezes)
6. 11:58 AM - Re: article (wingnut)
7. 12:19 PM - Re: article (Scott Patterson)
8. 12:52 PM - Re: rpm cruise?/VW (ron schick)
9. 01:36 PM - Model IV For Sale (FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2553])
10. 02:07 PM - Re: Rotax 912 - WAS article (Marco Menezes)
11. 02:09 PM - Re: article (Lowell Fitt)
12. 05:35 PM - Re: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba. Thanks! (icaza francisco)
13. 06:06 PM - Re: Rotax 912 - WAS article (darinh)
14. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 - WAS article (Scott Patterson)
Message 1
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Hi All,I had my first flight in my kitfox 4,all seemed to go well considering all
my new updates and mods that we did,but I am curious to know what some of you
are getting on you climb out and rpm cruise settings?
I am using a VW mosler 80hp powerplant and I am getting around 600 ft permin climb,this
is solo carrying 16 gal of fuel with an empty weight of 753 lbs,I wish
I had better climb rate,but maybe I am spoiled from rotax engines in other
aircraft and of course it is hot and hummid here in florida.
I am only getting 75 mph cruise at 2500 rpm even though my engine redlines at
3600 rpm,but on my static run up I am at 3000 rpm full throttle,
Anyone out there running a VW?,Do you run at cruise at a higher rpm than 2500 ?,can
I run at 2900-3200 at cruise.I know other engines guys run a feww hundred
rpm lower than their max redline,but does this also apply to a VW ?
Thanks for any ideas in this area.......................
ps I have attached a picture of my completed bird,another member of the fox family.....
Sincerely Mark Thomson N61AC
Mark Thompson
kr2@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
Message 2
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Mark,
Very nice looking Kitfox.
I assume by the short prop your are running direct drive ?
I think the VW like to run higher rpm that 2500 in cruise so your cruise
would be higher in that case.
You have a heavy IV at 753 so with the short prop and heavy weight 600
fpm not that bad really in your climate. Wait till cooler days and see
how it is.
I read this ad on the Mosler here
http://www.greatplainsas.com/chooseaircrft.html -- The claims are
far from what you but they claiming a 490 empty weight as well which I
find hard to believe.
Keep us up to date on how your tweaking improves things. I always like
the AeroVee but I don't like to be limited to a short prop as you will
lose your short field performance.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Thompson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:40 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: rpm cruise?
Hi All,I had my first flight in my kitfox 4,all seemed to go well
considering all my new updates and mods that we did,but I am curious to
know what some of you are getting on you climb out and rpm cruise
settings?
I am using a VW mosler 80hp powerplant and I am getting around 600 ft
permin climb,this is solo carrying 16 gal of fuel with an empty weight
of 753 lbs,I wish I had better climb rate,but maybe I am spoiled from
rotax engines in other aircraft and of course it is hot and hummid here
in florida.
I am only getting 75 mph cruise at 2500 rpm even though my engine
redlines at 3600 rpm,but on my static run up I am at 3000 rpm full
throttle,
Anyone out there running a VW?,Do you run at cruise at a higher rpm
than 2500 ?,can I run at 2900-3200 at cruise.I know other engines guys
run a feww hundred rpm lower than their max redline,but does this also
apply to a VW ?
Thanks for any ideas in this area.......................
ps I have attached a picture of my completed bird,another member of
the fox family.....
Sincerely Mark Thomson N61AC
Mark Thompson
kr2@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hey, guys,
The Great Plains site is a prime example of the hype that can trip up a
prospective engine chooser. The lightest Model IV I have ever seen weighed
in at 604 lbs. Actually there were two owned by the same guy and built
light for performance rather than trophies. 490 lbs is totally out of the
quetion - absolutely not doable and 1450 rate of climb is not in the cards
unless you have a CAP or repitch on the ground for climb tests and then
repitch again for cruise bragging rights. It can't be done and should be a
serious heads up for the other numbers in the claim.
My model IV-1200 weighed in at 704 and undoubtedly weighs more now as they
always do with the camera mount and other comfort stuff, not to mention the
tiedown stakes, first aid kit, tool kit and spare fluids I always carry. My
climb Saturday in 90 - 1300 ft. weather was 800 fpm and cruise at about 105
at 5500 rpm. - Rotax 912 UL.
I have no problem with alternative engines. Please don't get me wrong here.
I think there are less expensive ways to get a good flying airplane than
going with certified or Rotax engines and would never criticise a persons
engine choice. But what really galls me - almost beyond words - is the
claims that are made, by the people making the money, using totally
impossible numbers. The weight number given in the website is totally
outside the realm of possibility even if you built with light fabric and
only one coat of polybrush. Of course if you cut the seat in half, put no
cushion on it, eliminated the header tank, top and bottom false ribs, used
only one 7 gallon wing tank and eliminated such things as wing tips all
fairings and probably a lot more.
Can someone explain to me how this nonssense can continue year after year.
This happens over and over again. I think we on the list bare a certain
burden here. How can we use our experience in a positive non insuting way
to clear the air on some of these claims. I gotta go kick the dog. ( for
you animal lovers out there, I don't have a dog, only a bird and she knows
how to take cae of me)
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:10 AM
Mark,
Very nice looking Kitfox.
I assume by the short prop your are running direct drive ?
I think the VW like to run higher rpm that 2500 in cruise so your cruise
would be higher in that case.
You have a heavy IV at 753 so with the short prop and heavy weight 600 fpm
not that bad really in your climate. Wait till cooler days and see how it
is.
I read this ad on the Mosler here
http://www.greatplainsas.com/chooseaircrft.html -- The claims are far
from what you but they claiming a 490 empty weight as well which I find hard
to believe.
Keep us up to date on how your tweaking improves things. I always like the
AeroVee but I don't like to be limited to a short prop as you will lose your
short field performance.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Thompson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:40 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: rpm cruise?
Hi All,I had my first flight in my kitfox 4,all seemed to go well
considering all my new updates and mods that we did,but I am curious to know
what some of you are getting on you climb out and rpm cruise settings?
I am using a VW mosler 80hp powerplant and I am getting around 600 ft
permin climb,this is solo carrying 16 gal of fuel with an empty weight of
753 lbs,I wish I had better climb rate,but maybe I am spoiled from rotax
engines in other aircraft and of course it is hot and hummid here in
florida.
I am only getting 75 mph cruise at 2500 rpm even though my engine
redlines at 3600 rpm,but on my static run up I am at 3000 rpm full throttle,
Anyone out there running a VW?,Do you run at cruise at a higher rpm than
2500 ?,can I run at 2900-3200 at cruise.I know other engines guys run a feww
hundred rpm lower than their max redline,but does this also apply to a VW ?
Thanks for any ideas in this area.......................
ps I have attached a picture of my completed bird,another member of the
fox family.....
Sincerely Mark Thomson N61AC
Mark Thompson
kr2@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Lowell,
My Kitfox IV 582 on certified scales is certainly under 600 lbs.
Dry weight is around 570 after new paint this year.
I totally agree about claims that are made by any supplier that are
inflated. The proof is in the pudding. If you got the goods then videotape
it and show the world.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:46 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hey, guys,
The Great Plains site is a prime example of the hype that can trip up a
prospective engine chooser. The lightest Model IV I have ever seen weighed
in at 604 lbs. Actually there were two owned by the same guy and built
light for performance rather than trophies. 490 lbs is totally out of the
quetion - absolutely not doable and 1450 rate of climb is not in the cards
unless you have a CAP or repitch on the ground for climb tests and then
repitch again for cruise bragging rights. It can't be done and should be a
serious heads up for the other numbers in the claim.
My model IV-1200 weighed in at 704 and undoubtedly weighs more now as they
always do with the camera mount and other comfort stuff, not to mention the
tiedown stakes, first aid kit, tool kit and spare fluids I always carry. My
climb Saturday in 90 - 1300 ft. weather was 800 fpm and cruise at about 105
at 5500 rpm. - Rotax 912 UL.
I have no problem with alternative engines. Please don't get me wrong here.
I think there are less expensive ways to get a good flying airplane than
going with certified or Rotax engines and would never criticise a persons
engine choice. But what really galls me - almost beyond words - is the
claims that are made, by the people making the money, using totally
impossible numbers. The weight number given in the website is totally
outside the realm of possibility even if you built with light fabric and
only one coat of polybrush. Of course if you cut the seat in half, put no
cushion on it, eliminated the header tank, top and bottom false ribs, used
only one 7 gallon wing tank and eliminated such things as wing tips all
fairings and probably a lot more.
Can someone explain to me how this nonssense can continue year after year.
This happens over and over again. I think we on the list bare a certain
burden here. How can we use our experience in a positive non insuting way
to clear the air on some of these claims. I gotta go kick the dog. ( for
you animal lovers out there, I don't have a dog, only a bird and she knows
how to take cae of me)
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:10 AM
Mark,
Very nice looking Kitfox.
I assume by the short prop your are running direct drive ?
I think the VW like to run higher rpm that 2500 in cruise so your cruise
would be higher in that case.
You have a heavy IV at 753 so with the short prop and heavy weight 600 fpm
not that bad really in your climate. Wait till cooler days and see how it
is.
I read this ad on the Mosler here
http://www.greatplainsas.com/chooseaircrft.html -- The claims are far
from what you but they claiming a 490 empty weight as well which I find hard
to believe.
Keep us up to date on how your tweaking improves things. I always like the
AeroVee but I don't like to be limited to a short prop as you will lose your
short field performance.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Thompson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:40 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: rpm cruise?
Hi All,I had my first flight in my kitfox 4,all seemed to go well
considering all my new updates and mods that we did,but I am curious to know
what some of you are getting on you climb out and rpm cruise settings?
I am using a VW mosler 80hp powerplant and I am getting around 600 ft
permin climb,this is solo carrying 16 gal of fuel with an empty weight of
753 lbs,I wish I had better climb rate,but maybe I am spoiled from rotax
engines in other aircraft and of course it is hot and hummid here in
florida.
I am only getting 75 mph cruise at 2500 rpm even though my engine
redlines at 3600 rpm,but on my static run up I am at 3000 rpm full throttle,
Anyone out there running a VW?,Do you run at cruise at a higher rpm than
2500 ?,can I run at 2900-3200 at cruise.I know other engines guys run a feww
hundred rpm lower than their max redline,but does this also apply to a VW ?
Thanks for any ideas in this area.......................
ps I have attached a picture of my completed bird,another member of the
fox family.....
Sincerely Mark Thomson N61AC
Mark Thompson
kr2@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
Message 5
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Hey Lowell . . . you're famous!
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14027173/
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
$80/day to fly to work.. ouch.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49784#49784
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott Patterson <scott@lifeseeker.com>
Marco,
Very intriguing article.
I'm poised to purchase a Model III with a 912UL. I've gathered all the
Service Bulletins for my inspection (in MI) this weekend. I'll be meeting
with the owner, and his mechanic.
Do you have recommendations of "little known" considerations?
I would greatly appreciate your input.
--
Scott Patterson
S & P Brokerage, LLC
1339 Playa Azul, PO Box 2588
Avalon, CA 90704
310-510-2392 Office
310-510-2371 Fax
310-433-7728 Cell
scott@spbrokerage.com
Check Out My Recently Published Novel:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425937810
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Hi Mark I'm only taxi testing my 1915cc VW, but my target static wot is
3400 rpm with an expected cruise of 3000-3200 rpm. Redline is ~3600 rpm. I
believe Revmaster or Great plains have rpm ranges posted. I just feel the
engine will not be comfortable below these rpms if pitched to steep. Of
course my redrive changes the prop I can run, but the engine is the same.
Can you rig a scale to the tail spring to get a static thrust? Ron NB Ore
>From: "Mark Thompson" <kr2@earthlink.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: rpm cruise?
>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 06:40:42 -0400
>
>Anyone out there running a VW?,Do you run at cruise at a higher rpm than
>2500 ?,can I run at 2900-3200 at cruise.I know other engines guys run a
>feww hundred rpm lower than their max redline,but does this also apply to a
>VW ?
>
>Thanks for any ideas in this area.......................
>ps I have attached a picture of my completed bird,another member of the fox
>family.....
>
> Sincerely Mark Thomson N61AC
>
>
>Mark Thompson
>kr2@earthlink.net
>EarthLink Revolves Around You.
><< 2006_0710kitfox0004.JPG >>
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Model IV For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2553]" <john.l.frederickson@monsanto.com>
I've reached a point in my life where I must sell my Model IV Kitfox (Serial
# 1429), including trailer. I have 145 hours on a 582 Rotax, 3-blade GSC
ground adjustable prop, minimum VFR instruments, 21 gallon fuel capacity,
tundra tires, a ding and a scratch here and there (i.e., hangar rash) but
always hangared. If anyone is interested, please contact me off-list.
Thanks
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 - WAS article |
Scott:
Not knowing whose Model 3 you're considering, I can't opine with regard to specifics.
But if you follow the list you already suspect that a Model 3 with the
912 can be a spectacular performer. As far as I know, the 912 is a good engine
but my personal experience is behind a 582. At about 35 hours, I'm pretty happy
with it (knock wood) despite some strong negative opinions from others on
the list.
How about it listers . . . can anyone give Scott some specifics on the 912?
Scott Patterson <scott@lifeseeker.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott Patterson
Marco,
Very intriguing article.
I'm poised to purchase a Model III with a 912UL. I've gathered all the
Service Bulletins for my inspection (in MI) this weekend. I'll be meeting
with the owner, and his mechanic.
Do you have recommendations of "little known" considerations?
I would greatly appreciate your input.
--
Scott Patterson
S & P Brokerage, LLC
1339 Playa Azul, PO Box 2588
Avalon, CA 90704
310-510-2392 Office
310-510-2371 Fax
310-433-7728 Cell
scott@spbrokerage.com
Check Out My Recently Published Novel:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425937810
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Marco,
Thanks for the heads-up on this. I was wondering if it would appear on the
web. Needless to say, I was a bit nervous how the piece would play out
given the sometimes negative slant we see so often in the press regarding
aviation. Annie Pong did a great job and to top it all off in a more
personal sense, she left last Friday for Beijing where my wife often flies
and Kay put out the word to some friends working her flight and we got a
report back that she (Annie) was the "A" passenger in business class, fun to
talk to and really nice.
All the aerial video not shot from the cockpit or showing traffic was from
my little camera pod - the foggy canyon which is the South Fork of the
American River shrouded in fog, the Golden Gate Bridge, the San Francisco
coast line and the closing shot of Folsom Lake.
Thanks again,
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:40 AM
> Hey Lowell . . . you're famous!
>
> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14027173/
>
>
> Marco Menezes
> Model 2 582 N99KX
>
> ---------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Polytone over old polytone with carnauba. Thanks! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
Thanks very much for all your posts about polytone
over old polytone. Very useful information,
I apreciate,
Francisco.
--- Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> escribi:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> Only if you want to paint to stay on. If you are
> putting the lines on for a
> temporary reason paint over the wax.
>
> Noel
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > icaza francisco
> > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 1:06 AM
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Polytone over old polytone
> with carnauba
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco
>
> > <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
> >
> > I want to paint some orange lines with polytone
> over
> > my wings already painted with the same material.
> For a
> > pair of years I have used carnauba to keep
> surfaces
> > protected. Does anyone know how I could clean the
> > surface to remove carnauba before painting it?
> >
> > I appreciate,
> >
> > Francisco Icaza.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
___________________________________________________________
>
> > La mejor conexin a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a
> tu correo
> > por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________
La mejor conexin a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 - WAS article |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
I owned a model III with the 912UL and had a great time with it. Typical takeoff
(solo) was about 200' with initial climb around 1000 fpm and then settle in
around 800 fpm. Cruise was around 75 - 80 mph at 70% -75%. I had a 3-blade
warp drive on it and had it pitched to about 5300 - 5400 on takeoff. Keep in
mind I fly in Utah with a field elevation of approx. 4200' msl so your numbers
will only increase with lower elevations. Obviously, the plane was great, however
the model III and earlier require you to "fly the rudder" much more than
to the IV and later versions. The ailerons don't have differential throw and
the vertical stab is significantly smaller that later models giving it much less
yaw stability. Having said this, I never had a problem with it and the flight
characteristics taught me to be a better pilot. If it is in good condition,
go ahead with it, you will have a blast. By the way, what is the N-number
(just checking to see if it my old one)?
Darin
Starting wings on Series 7
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49846#49846
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 - WAS article |
Darin,
Thank you for your response. N61724.
My concern is about the TBO of 1500/10 years. The previous owner was killed
in an automobile accident, and it languished in a hanger thereafter. It has
100 hours TTE/TTAF, and a current Condition Inspection, but as I'll be
flying over water (30 miles) to Catalina Island, I need to be prudent.
Any thoughts on the advisability of a full overhaul as a precaution?
--
Scott Patterson
S & P Brokerage, LLC
1339 Playa Azul, PO Box 2588
Avalon, CA 90704
310-510-2392 Office
310-510-2371 Fax
310-433-7728 Cell
scott@spbrokerage.com
Check Out My Recently Published Novel:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425937810
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