Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - Re: Re: Stall in a side slip (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:01 AM - Re: Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip (Ceashman@aol.com)
3. 04:10 AM - Re: Stall in a side slip (Bradley M Webb)
4. 05:22 AM - Side Slip Stalls (Howard)
5. 05:22 AM - Side Slip Stalls (Howard)
6. 05:46 AM - Re: First Flight. The Short and the Long. (Guy Buchanan)
7. 06:14 AM - Re: Stall in a side slip (Noel Loveys)
8. 06:15 AM - Re: Stall in a side slip (Colin Durey)
9. 06:25 AM - Re: Stall in a side slip (Noel Loveys)
10. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Stall in a side slip (Noel Loveys)
11. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: Stall in a side slip (Noel Loveys)
12. 06:59 AM - Setting prop revs NSI (Fox5flyer)
13. 07:23 AM - Re: (off topic) Sailor stuff (Noel Loveys)
14. 07:51 AM - Re: First Flight. The Short and the Long. (Dave)
15. 01:27 PM - Re: Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip (Michel Verheughe)
16. 01:27 PM - Phoenix news segment (Dan Billingsley)
17. 01:52 PM - Re: Stall in a side slip (Michel Verheughe)
18. 01:55 PM - Re: (off topic) Sailor stuff (Michel Verheughe)
19. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: Stall in a side slip (Guy Buchanan)
20. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip (AMuller589@AOL.COM)
21. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip (Randy Daughenbaugh)
22. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: Stall in a side slip (Michel Verheughe)
23. 04:13 PM - Re: Setting prop revs NSI (QSS)
24. 04:52 PM - Re: Priming spars on QB Wings?? (Steve Zakreski)
25. 04:52 PM - Re: First Flight. The Short and the Long. (Guy Buchanan)
26. 05:13 PM - Resale value (Rex Shaw)
27. 05:41 PM - Re: Stall in a side slip (kitfoxmike)
28. 05:47 PM - Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip (kitfoxmike)
29. 06:15 PM - Re: Resale value (Don Smythe)
30. 07:22 PM - Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip (kitfoxmike)
31. 07:38 PM - Re: Resale value (Dave)
32. 08:49 PM - Re: Priming spars on QB Wings?? (darinh)
33. 10:44 PM - 4473 is flying again. (QSS)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Thanks for your answer, guys. Interesting reading.
On Jul 29, 2006, at 5:59 AM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
> Michel, do you mean a side slip? I think you mean a forward slip.
Yes Randy, I meant a forward slip. But first, I'd like to explain why I
do this. I am convinced that, as a pilot, one doesn't have time to make
decisions, it must come from a trained reaction.
I recently read (via Google Alert) about a Kitfox that got engine
trouble, tried to land in a field, bounced back because of too high
speed, hit a roof with a wing and landed upside down in the next field.
Luckily pilot and passengers could walk away from the accident, which
is a big credit to the fine aircraft we fly.
My only aim is, if I should experience an engine stop, to be able to
land the plane without freaking out. The very first time I switched
off voluntary the engine (with an instructor) I became fascinated by
the prop that was not moving. In a sailing experience under very bad
weather, I became fascinated by the pattern in a water pool on the
deck. This is dangerous.
So, I train, as much as possible, to land without engine. The sink rate
is higher than with idle engine. But (and I still don't know why) my
landings are smoother than with the engine on.
I never use flaps on landing! It is, IMHO useless. I only use flaps to
get fast out of a long, wet grass short field and that's all.
I always make sure to keep to the best glide speed (about 55 MPH) all
the way on the final, to the flare. In principle, I shouldn't stall as
the nose is down, all the time.
But I read somewhere that, landing in an emergency on a short field
surrounded by obstacles, it is better to hit e.g. trees at the end of
the field, when the speed is low, that tree tops at the beginning of
the field. Therefore I feel it is necessary to train precision landing
where one has - at all price - pass over an obstacle, then put the
plane down as fast as possible, and that must be done by reducing the
speed, which I believe can only be done by side ... er, sorry, forward
slipping.
About spins, I have done two, with my instructor, enough for me to
understand that it is forbidden and that I will probably never be able
to recover from one. And from everything I read about aircraft
accidents, I see that the large majority involves low speed and low
altitude.
No Dave, I am not looking for a Darwin Award and yes, I'd like to stay
on this list for many years. But most of all, I'd like to instruct my
son about what to do as a dead-stick emergency training.
But, has any of you stalled voluntary, at high altitude, in a forward
slip? I could try myself but I'd rather ask the list first because ...
I don't want to end in a spin!
Cheers,
Michel
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>Hey, I like this thread. I want to complicate it a bit by asking a
>question. Michel, do you mean a side slip? I think you mean a forward
>slip..............
Randy. I am also liking the topic, (thanks Michel for initiation).
Now my question is, well, I'll play this out as this scenario;
No wind, perfectly calm. I am on final but high and also in a perfect line
with the runway.
I will move stick to the right and balance rudder to the left (all at the
same time). I keep my ground track straight in to the runway. My Kitfox is now
somewhat pointing it's right side to the runway. (and best of all, I am enjoying
the elevator ride down)
Is this not a side slip? 'cause i am facing the runway with my side.
Second scenario;
I am on final. Wind hitting me on my right wing. I need to lower my right
wing to stay on track, so I will move stick to the right and balance rudder to
the left, because I do not want to make a right turn. I keep my ground track
straight in to the runway. My Kitfox is now pointing it's nose to the runway.
Because my slightly low right wing should be compensating for the wind energy.
Is this not a forward slip? 'cause i am facing the runway with my propellor.
So' Is slipping into the wind (second scenario) a side slip or a forward slip?
Thanks for the advise, cause I am always a little confused with the book
description of this.
Cheers. Eric Atlanta Classic IV
Message 3
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| Subject: | Stall in a side slip |
Folks,
Dave has this spot-on. Read his posts again.
John, ever do a cross-control stall in training? That is one of the more
nasty things to encounter.
There was a thread a while back about a true engine out flight. One thing
that stuck in my mind was the comment on how much steeper the glide was vs.
with the engine running.
As a CFI, I, of course, leave the engine running during training. But, I
think most pilots are very surprised when the engine quits for real. The
nose down pitch is much steeper, and your "calibrated" MK1 eyeball suddenly
gets very long in estimating distances. That's the precise reason I require
students to pick a close field, and do not try to stretch the glide at all.
I also harp on the benefits of altitude.
Anyway, Michel, if you can shut it down, and do it safely, by all means go
for it. It's great practice. But when you kick in that rudder, your
attention to the elevator should double, maybe even triple.
Just some things to bear in mind. I like slips, and think they are very
useful, but you must be careful, and realize you're a little closer to the
edge doing one.
Bradley
_____
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Anderson
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 1:47 AM
But isn't it different in that side slipping is cross controlled, to enter a
spin, rudder to the stalled wing???
_____
How does one enter a spin: stall with full rudder!!!!!
_____
Shop 'til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
<http://g.msn.com/8HMBENNZ/2743??PS=47575>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Side Slip Stalls |
May I suggest the following Web Site for Q & A from one of the best
flight Instructors ever...Bill Kershner....
http://www.blackwellprofessional.com/AskKershner.html
I'm not selling his books, but I have emailed the subject question to
him, and will post his answer as soon as I receive it.
Fly safe, and have fun.
Howard
Message 5
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| Subject: | Side Slip Stalls |
May I suggest the following Web Site for Q & A from one of the best
flight Instructors ever...Bill Kershner....
http://www.blackwellprofessional.com/AskKershner.html
I'm not selling his books, but I have emailed the subject question to
him, and will post his answer as soon as I receive it.
Fly safe, and have fun.
Howard
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight. The Short and the Long. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 06:43 AM 7/28/2006, you wrote:
>Where did you use the 3m fire
>barrier caulk?
I used it at every penetration. I also built a special receptacle for it
between the edge of the firewall and the cowl, so that if a fire starts the
firewall will hopefully seal to the cowl.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Stall in a side slip |
This far north, and it's not into Inuit territory yet, when the mercury
dropped below the magic 0C (32 normal (F)) in the SPAM CAN 172 I trained
on
we would bring the engine to idle, Pull 30Deg flaps to give a similar to
engine out flight envelope. One of the more important things the flight
school insisted on was that every 500' we do an engine warming which was
full throttle for three seconds.
At the time I was doing the training a student and an instructor with
another school a couple of klicks (miles) were killed while practicing
forced approaches. The reason was they overshot their field and then
suffered a cold engine seizure. After that they gave us a hard floor of
1000' agl for practicing forced approaches. We have a lot of open water
in
this neck of the woods so I'm very happy flying the floats.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMuller589@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 2:36 AM
John Marzulli, we do not teach actual power out landings this low to the
ground by shutting off the engine . The normal way we practice power out
landings is to fly at the POH recommended flap and power setting. this
simulates safely simulates an engine out landing; that way you can
correct
mistakes. Lacking a recommended power and flap setting in your Kitfox
POH or
in a SPAM CAN we go to a safe altitude shut the engine down, give it
time to
stabilize dead power rpm while maintaining the recommended approach
speed,
and determine the rate of sink. Then restart the engine and at the same
altitude set min power hold rate of sink at the power off rate of sink
and
set flaps and add power as required to maintain that rate of sink. Some
power may be required when flap settings are in increments that cannot
exactly match the power off rate of sink.
I would like to know what engine you are using and if the engine stops
rotating when you turn it off. Do you do it with the key or mixture?
What
airspeed do you hold? Normally the engine keeps rotating until you slow
up
to at or near stalling speed; therefore if you lose the engine and
maintain
best glide speed the engine continues to windmill which is a higher drag
condition than with stopped prop. One way to minimize wind-milling drag
to
extend your glide is to open the throttle fully. To fully stop engine
rotation you slow up until it stops but this is not recommended in an
emergency because a stall greatly reduces glide distance. Some engines
stop
rotating on their own at best glide speed, some don't, depending on
engine
condition, gear box or not, etc.
The main thing in practicing power off landings is be safe therefore
don't
shut it down. Using the above procedure you can make every landing a
practice power off landing safely. Good luck and enjoy!!!!
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" <colin@ptclhk.com>
Michael,
I note the many and varied replies to your enquiry. This topic is of
particular interest to me, and has been for many years, so I though I'd
add a few comments myself.
I spent quite some time flying gliders before getting into very light
aircraft like the Kitfox. In the gliding fraternity, there is an oft
repeated remark that "gliding sorts out the pilots from the plane
drivers". In connection with side-slips, stalls, spins, and low level
maneuvers, this certainly does seem to have some truth in it. In gliding,
you get only one go at any landing, so it better be right(in a powered
aircraft, there is almost always the option of a go-around). The focus,
from the beginning of gliding training, is on planning each approach,
early and well. I do necessarily see that mind-set in some power pilots.
While a side-slip is a valid and usefull maneuver, it really should be the
"trick-up-the-sleeve" when things get sticky on a landing where well laid
plans have been upset by forces beyond the pilots control. A famous
example of the value of a side-slip is the "Gimli Glider" incident. Most
gliders have "dive brakes" or "speed brakes" (spoilers), and these are
especially usefull for "out-landings" in very short fields or where the
only available approach is over some high obstacle. Caught out by zero
lift away from a prepared strip, the glider pilot has to take any piece of
open ground that is available and, in this case, "dive brakes" and/or a
side-slip are often needed to get the plane down, keeping the approach
angle very steep, but as slow as possible.
My point? For normal operations, a pilot should plan on using the correct
approach angle and speed every time, unless there is some expectation that
there will be excessive sink in the final stages of the approach that
requires the use of extra height to start with, or your only option really
is to come in steep because of some obstacle to a normal approach. Don't
plan on using a side-slip as a standard approach technique. The reason...
you can go into a spin or a stall from almost any attitude and at any
speed... unbalance the lift/weight forces and anything can, and just
might, go wrong at the worst possible time. How do I know... I know!
EVERY pilot should obtain some training on incipient spins, full spins,
and stalls, and the correct recovery procedure, with a qualified
instructor. EVERY pilot should train to be competent on side-slips, but do
your training at altitude until you can really FEEL what is happening with
the aircraft in that mode, because it is, in fact, not an exact science
and can be unpredictable.
Instead of "dead-stick" landings, where you actually cut the engine,
simply pull power to full idle, and do glide approaches, keep you engine
live (what's the point of throwing away a perfectly good engine). The
glide angle and performance of a Kitfox, an Avid, a Rans, or whatever,
just isn't like any glider. If the landing isn't lining up properly, open
the throttle and go around and do it over. Unlike a glider, you do get
another go.
I suggest that every power pilot should do at least a few flights in a
glider, especially if you can do it by winch launch. Its a real buzz
(2+g's acceleration, and climb out at anything up to 3000+fpm).
By all means, after some qualified training, continue to do engine
failure, stall, spin, and side-slip practice, but do it up high where
you've got time to recover, and plan every approach early and well.
Happy flying Michael.
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney
+61-418-677073 (M)
+61-2-945466162 (F)
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> A question, friends:
>
> Since I have now changed my mag testing switches and that I can switch
> off my engine in flight, I do as much as I can dead-stick landings,
> just to practice and not be surprised if it should happen one day
> involuntary.
> Doing that, I also try to do precision landing, thinking of the day I
> may have to land on a field, maybe a short one. I come on final a bit
> high, switch off the engine and adjust my vertical speed by side
> slipping. I do it all the way to the threshold, even with full rudder
> on the side, sometimes.
>
> Talking about it with my son, he asks if it is not dangerous to side
> slip so near the ground and if there is some danger to stall in a
> uncoordinated attitude like a side slip.
>
> My understanding is that a stall in a side slip is not too dangerous
> because the wing up will stall first and if you are quick enough to
> center the controls before it falls down, nothing will happen.
>
> ... but then, I am not so sure anymore. Has any of you tried to stall
> in a side slip? Is it dangerous?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Stall in a side slip |
I saw a program on Alaska flying a while ago. There was one fellow who
flies a Super cub stripped out. No battery, no starter, no radio, no
lights
no brakes.... dirt big tundra tires. This fellow lives in the boonies
and
has a short strip outside his door. In order to land he has to shut off
his
engine... in order to take off he has to tie the tail of his plane for
his
run up. It was most interesting to watch him at close to gross weight
skipping those tundra tires on a lake and stopping with inches to spare
on a
very rocky shore. Take offs were the reverse... no room for engine
checks!
Apparently this fellow has been doing this for many years. His wife and
son
both fly, they have to, and use the same procedures to get home in the
evening.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ceashman@aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 8:34 PM
Michel said.
>>"I come on final a bit high, switch off the engine and adjust my
vertical
speed by side
slipping. I do it all the way to the threshold, even with full rudder
on the side, sometimes."
>>"Talking about it with my son, he asks if it is not dangerous to side
slip so near the ground and if there is some danger to stall in a
uncoordinated attitude like a side slip".
Hi Michel.
It looks like you are growing big cahooners (I think I spelled that
correct)
Switching a perfectly good running engine off.
But it looks like you are having fun and especially having practice.
Your son inquired if it could be dangerous to side slip so close to the
ground when one would consider a stall.
That would suck if it happened a couple of 50 feet above grass.
What would happen if you tried this, lets say at a couple or maybe 4
thousand feet above ground?
The risk would be minimal to experiment.
Let us know what the results are? (NO! I am only kidding)
When I need to slip (which is quite often with a little head wind)
(these
Kitfoxes do not like to come down when there is a breeze) I am ground
tracking in a straight line to the runway and I am not pulling back too
much
on the stick. As explained, I want to come down but not too quickly. But
I
must admit, I have never tried to point the nose upwards and risk
dropping
out of the sky.
Any stunt pilots in the group who can provide the answer?
Eric. Atlanta, Classic IV
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Spins shouldn't be a problem especially if you have altitude on your side.
Just remember to correct with rudder NOT AILERON. At least you have
experienced a spin... A lot of trainers today don't even let a student
experience a spin because it isn't in the flight test. As if the guys who
wrote the flight test considered the repercussions of removing the spin form
the test.
My first spin was totally thrilling!! When the screen filled with ground
spinning at a fibulas rate of knots... Wow! I wouldn't have been able to
correct it on the first occurrence. I would have been to busy with bodily
fluids to do much of anything.
Now because of the spin training that I had if I did an accidental spin
today I would just be upset with myself at letting it happen. As I said
altitude is your friend if you have enough altitude on approach then you can
sort things out for a nice landing.... But.... You always have to be ready
for ground squalls and wind shears etc.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Michel Verheughe
> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 5:21 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Stall in a side slip
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Thanks for your answer, guys. Interesting reading.
>
> On Jul 29, 2006, at 5:59 AM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
> > Michel, do you mean a side slip? I think you mean a forward slip.
>
> Yes Randy, I meant a forward slip. But first, I'd like to
> explain why I
> do this. I am convinced that, as a pilot, one doesn't have
> time to make
> decisions, it must come from a trained reaction.
> I recently read (via Google Alert) about a Kitfox that got engine
> trouble, tried to land in a field, bounced back because of too high
> speed, hit a roof with a wing and landed upside down in the
> next field.
> Luckily pilot and passengers could walk away from the accident, which
> is a big credit to the fine aircraft we fly.
>
> My only aim is, if I should experience an engine stop, to be able to
> land the plane without freaking out. The very first time I switched
> off voluntary the engine (with an instructor) I became fascinated by
> the prop that was not moving. In a sailing experience under very bad
> weather, I became fascinated by the pattern in a water pool on the
> deck. This is dangerous.
>
> So, I train, as much as possible, to land without engine. The
> sink rate
> is higher than with idle engine. But (and I still don't know why) my
> landings are smoother than with the engine on.
>
> I never use flaps on landing! It is, IMHO useless. I only use
> flaps to
> get fast out of a long, wet grass short field and that's all.
>
> I always make sure to keep to the best glide speed (about 55 MPH) all
> the way on the final, to the flare. In principle, I shouldn't
> stall as
> the nose is down, all the time.
>
> But I read somewhere that, landing in an emergency on a short field
> surrounded by obstacles, it is better to hit e.g. trees at the end of
> the field, when the speed is low, that tree tops at the beginning of
> the field. Therefore I feel it is necessary to train
> precision landing
> where one has - at all price - pass over an obstacle, then put the
> plane down as fast as possible, and that must be done by reducing the
> speed, which I believe can only be done by side ... er,
> sorry, forward
> slipping.
>
> About spins, I have done two, with my instructor, enough for me to
> understand that it is forbidden and that I will probably
> never be able
> to recover from one. And from everything I read about aircraft
> accidents, I see that the large majority involves low speed and low
> altitude.
>
> No Dave, I am not looking for a Darwin Award and yes, I'd
> like to stay
> on this list for many years. But most of all, I'd like to instruct my
> son about what to do as a dead-stick emergency training.
>
> But, has any of you stalled voluntary, at high altitude, in a forward
> slip? I could try myself but I'd rather ask the list first
> because ...
> I don't want to end in a spin!
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I haven't seen an engine yet that can't quit unexpectedly. Four stroke, two
stroke or turbine. Take a queue from the Boy Scouts...."Be Prepared"!!
I read a good one some time back about a fellow who was told to take a 360
while a B52 was doing a precautionary landing with an engine out.
His answer to the tower was he would do the 360 because there is nothing
quite like the dreaded seven engine landing /;^}
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> kitfoxmike
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:22 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Stall in a side slip
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
>
> Michael,
> I have to say there is much better ways to have fun in a fox.
> Sorry, turning off the engine isn't one of them. Usually
> when I turn the engine off I'm about to put the plane in the
> hanger, that's no fun either. IF your so concerned about the
> engine quiting than you must be close to TBO on your engine
> and your getting concerned.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
> http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
> rv7 wingkit
> reserved 287RV
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> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50429#50429
>
>
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Setting prop revs NSI |
Hi all. Just home from Oshkosh. Actually it's AirVenture, but I've had
a difficult time changing old habits.
The numbers given below by Graeme are indeed correct. I spoke with
Lance at length about this a few years ago and he explained that the
engine is pretty much a racing engine the way it's built up and the
rings need this high rpm periodically. I've found with mine over a 325
hour period that I get my best takeoff thrust about 5400 rpm and cruise
torque at right around 3900 rpm using the NSI CAP prop. Lance said
these numbers are fine for normal use, but to run it up to 6200
periodically to keep the top end clean. Soobs are high rpm engines
anyway, so I wouldn't worry much about it.
I have a Cadillac Seville with Northstar engine and one of the factory
recommendations is to periodically put the tranny in 3rd then from 40mph
plant the throttle to the floor until it reaches 6000 rpm (about 87mph)
then let off on it until the speed reaches 40 again. Northstars are
also high performance engines that are mostly run at very low rpms and
are prone to build carbon on the compression rings if not given a good
thrashing occasionally.
Hope this helps.
Deke
Time: 03:02:09 AM PST US
John, its the NSI 108 HP model. I think they are tweeked up a bit
because the standard EA 81 is much lower in HP than that. Im going to go
with your figures when Im back in Yeppoon and see how it goes. I'll let
you know the results.
Cheers
Graeme ----- Original Message -----
From: John Anderson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Yes, they certainly seem high to me me Graeme....I have a friend with
a normally asperated EA81 and limits 5500 max for t/o. Goes very well,
he has upped the comp ratio a little and bigger carb. You can always set
the prop to give you more RPM for that one-of if your underpowered a bit
but will cost on cruise. But that little engine sure is going to last
longer at lower RPM. Is it a std EA81 or have you tweeked it a little? I
limit to 5000 for t/o but rearly need it and 4000 for cruise but then
I'm turbo'd. John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Hi John, thanks for the advice. I've been following the threads
going back and forth between yourself and others with your own plane and
being at the same point myself with engine info requirements Im really
close to flying. The problem I have is that I was sent an NSI data sheet
on engine performance and in it the advice was that take off engine revs
should be around 6200. I shook my head in disbelieve at these figures
and asked a mate who overhauled my engine what he thought and he agreed
that the figures were high. I was wondering if the figures quoted are
for the NSI engine with the CAP system. I dont know if that would make
any difference or not but 6200 seem very high and more a kin to the 2
stroke rev range than a four stroke. Figures quoted in the NSI EA 81
OPERATING LIMITS are as follows.
Idle RPM 1350-1400
Cruise RPM 3200-4500
Take off RPM 6200
Max Continuous RPM 5800
Never exceed RPM 6500
Regards
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: John Anderson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Fo a start Graeme, if you get 5000 static, that will certinly get
you flying safely. At 4700 your'e very near top of the tq curve. John
A.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi guys, I have my prop bolted on and will be experimenting with
pitch soon but as I am unsure what my max static revs should be I am a
bit concerned. Can some body with an NSI non turbo and ground adjustable
prop tell me what revs I should expect to see for best results. I was
getting 4700 rpm flat out but feel I should be seeing over 5500 rpm. The
prop I have put on is a 72 inch 3 blade composite which when installed
into the hub comes down to 70inch.
Regards
Graeme Toft
Message 13
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| Subject: | (off topic) Sailor stuff |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I guess it shows my experience is in shallow draft boats...hardly yachts or
ships. I have used bucket/s as a sea anchor to keep the boat pointed into
the wind.
I think I saw drawings of your sea anchor or something very similar at one
time.
As you say you can't always choose your weather. I've been flying on floats
at low altitude over a dead flat calm bay over one ridge to land in a pond
amongst whitecaps. The weather can change fast!
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Michel Verheughe
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:03 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: (off topic) Sailor stuff
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> On Jul 28, 2006, at 4:08 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> > If you're going to batten the hatches to ride out a storm
> be sure to
> > use a
> > sea anchor to keep you headed into the wind.
>
> Well, Noel, I have read about everything that has been written about
> sailing, since Joshua Slocum and there are different schools of
> thought. The first aspect is if there is a lee shore or not. If not,
> most sailors will prefer to run with the weather and, to prevent
> broaching, will pay out, from the stern, a rope - as long as
> possible -
> to slow the ship and keep her straight.
> If leeway is to be kept to a minimum, most will heave to by simply
> latching the tiller to the lee side, keeping the ship at an angle to
> the weather. But most think (and it is also my own experience) that a
> sea anchor has little effect on a deep keel sailboat since both the
> ship and the anchor will drift at about the same rate.
>
> Sea anchors are usually very cumbersome to handle. They have a rigid
> ring to keep them open and they need a tripping line for recovery. In
> the 70s, I designed a better sea anchor that I tried to commercially
> manufacture but ... I am not a businessman. The principle is inspired
> from the release parachute that pulls the main parachute out of its
> bag. It can be easily folded into a bag and the entire package is
> extremely compact, made out of spinnaker nylon.
>
> But then again, such a sea anchor is, in my humble opinion,
> only useful
> for motorboats with little depth and superstructure that offers a
> strong windage.
>
> > When the weather is that foul the best place for the boat
> to be is
> > on the
> > collar. The best place for the sailor is ashore. Too bad
> it doesn't
> > always
> > work that way.
>
> That is true and I have no respect for a sailor that sets
> sail in a bad
> weather forecast. But if say, you want to cross the Bay of
> Biscay, you
> can't predict the weather for a long time and you have to
> take what is
> coming. My slowest crossing was 9 days and my fastest was 5 days.
>
> When the forecast gets nasty, the hard decision is to either try to
> make it to a safe harbour before the worst is over us, or try to make
> for open waters and ride it in a safe open place. Because the worst
> place to be in bad weather is ... near the coast.
>
> ... pretty much like flying. The worse place to experience turbulence
> is ... near the ground.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight. The Short and the Long. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Very good Guy,
If the fire gets that hot -- yikes.
Anyways, unless you have exhaust leaks are ball joint or manifold gasket
then you should not get exhaust fumes via firewall.
Extend your outlet and try that first.
Also, talking about fires - firewall forward -- do you use Metal lock
nuts or fiber nuts ? In Canada we do not allow fiber nuts firewall
forward. Your Engine mount bolts must use Metal loc nuts or put head of
bolt towards the front. But I do argue that is it hot enough to melt the
self locking nuts and spin them off I will be cooked long before.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 11:42 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 06:43 AM 7/28/2006, you wrote:
>>Where did you use the 3m fire
>>barrier caulk?
>
> I used it at every penetration. I also built a special receptacle for it
> between the edge of the firewall and the cowl, so that if a fire starts
> the firewall will hopefully seal to the cowl.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Jul 29, 2006, at 12:57 PM, Ceashman@aol.com wrote:
> So' Is slipping into the wind (second scenario) a side slip or a
> forward slip?
hummmmm, not sure, Eric. On second thoughts, I think you're right, what
I do is a side slip and not a forward slip.
Anyway, guys, I think I am pretty well aware of what you are saying
regarding the danger of uncoordinated manoeuvre near the ground, etc.
But ...
I could try to stall in a cross control situation like a side slip, at
a safe altitude. But I dare not, I am too afraid to end in a spin, even
a limited one. So, I was hoping one of you could be so kind as to be a
test pilot for me! :-)
Here is what I think happens. Please correct me if I am wrong.
In a skid, usually trying to turn too fast without enough banking, if
stalling, your lower wing will abruptly fall down and this is the best
way to end up in a spin. The lower wing stalls first because blanketed
by the fuselage and having less lift.
In a slip, the high wing stalls first because also blanketed by the
fuselage. But since it is already high, it takes more time to come down
to say 45 degrees, when the plane flicks inverted. Usually, an awaken
pilot will manage to center the controls before that happens, as
opposed to the more sudden skid.
Am I right? Am I wrong?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 16
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| Subject: | Phoenix news segment |
I think I remember (I believe it was Lowell?) mentioning he did a segment for a
local newscast. They showed Cameron Park and talked about beating the traffic
via flying. Saw it this morning...kinda cool.
Dan,
Mesa
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Jul 29, 2006, at 3:15 PM, Colin Durey wrote:
> Most gliders have "dive brakes" or "speed brakes" (spoilers)
Indeed, Colin. But since I don't have speed brakes on my Kitfox, I use
sideslipping.
incidentally when my son took his Utralight license, last year on my
Kitfox, after he flew his first solo, I asked him how it was, having
still in mind my own terrific experience. "Ok," he answered.
- "What? Just ok?"
- "Yes, it was much more exiting when I flew solo in a glider (as you
say yourself, Colin) 15 years ago, knowing I had only one chance to
land the bird."
My son had about 50 hours on the club's Blanik and I was a few time up
with him, as my only glider experience.
When I started with the Kitfox, three years ago, I became interested by
a fact: In Norway, your normal insurance doesn't cover you for sports
like diving, parachuting, mountains climbing and ... ultralight flying.
But it does for glider flying, which is considered as safe as ...
sitting in your garden or shopping. So, it became clear to me that if I
wanted to fly safe, I had to fly ... like a glider pilot, always be
ready to be in gliding distance to a safe landing.
> By all means, after some qualified training, continue to do engine
> failure, stall, spin, and side-slip practice, but do it up high where
> you've got time to recover, and plan every approach early and well.
Well, stalls and spins are not necessary for safe flying, Colin. But,
IMHO, to be able to do precision landing with no engine, is safety
training. If I, or my son, ever loose engine power, I want us to do the
right thing without hesitation. As opposed to sailing, in aviation any
fraction of a second can make the difference between life and death.
But as for sailing, I know I need to have a plan. And when I fly, I try
to note any place I could land on because I think that, if the engine
starts to go wrong, it is better to land safely on something that is
right under me, than to try to make it to an airfield that may be
beyond a forest, a mountain, a stretch of water. The action then is to
eyeball that emergency field, and fly the plane for a safe landing, as
trained for, almost as a reflex. Wouldn't you agree?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: (off topic) Sailor stuff |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Jul 29, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> The weather can change fast!
... squall lines, Noel? The wind goes from nil to gale force in matter
of seconds. Been there, done that. It is not too bad when it happens
during day time because you can see the telltale clouds. But ... at
night? ... been there too.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 12:51 AM 7/29/2006, you wrote:
>But, has any of you stalled voluntary, at high altitude, in a forward
>slip? I could try myself but I'd rather ask the list first because ...
>I don't want to end in a spin!
It doesn't matter what you call it, stalling cross controlled results in
the trailing wing stalled, and the leading wing not. (It's actually worse
than what we do for a normal spin entry, because the trailing wing aileron
is down, which increases that wing's angle of attack.) This can result in a
variety of things, depending on subsequent control input, but typically
results in a spin. (Steady state control input.) Yes, if you get too slow
during your slip to final you will spin, with predictable results.
There is no reason, however, that you should get slow during a slip.
Remember that drag varies with the square of the velocity. If you want to
bleed LOTS of energy, get draggy and go FAST. (Meaning: point it down with
the power off.) Though I'm sure it's possible to slip all the way to the
ground, with a dramatic flare at the end, you will, by definition, have to
carry more speed into that flare than if you stabilized at just above stall
on your approach. (Slipping stall speed is higher.) The higher speed will
make your subsequent float and ground roll longer. Ideally the slip is only
used to lower the aircraft to the intended glide slope. I have, like you,
done weak slips all the way to the ground, thereby increasing the angle of
the glide slope, but the preferred method for increasing the angle of glide
slope is to go slower. I've done it by slip when there were people behind
me who wouldn't appreciate my 50 knot approach speed. Usually I slip hard
until I get to the proper glide slope, then straighten and continue a
conventional stabilized approach.
The big question with short field operations is what gust factor you use.
It's possible to land a Cessna 152 at about 45 knots, however, if the wind
velocity decreases by five knots as you enter your flare, guess what? You
just stalled. It makes for one hell of a short roll-out, but you have to
leave the field by truck! Our Kitfox's are the same. I suppose you could
make an approach at 45 MIAS, and drop like the proverbial rock, but it's
just too easy to have a 5 knot wind variation on the deck ruin your whole
day. I suppose it depends on how desperate you are. I'm guessing it's
better to land at 55 MIAS and hit the trees at 25 than stall on approach at 45.
Do yourself a favor Michel. Go find an aerobatic aircraft and instructor.
I'm not implying you need the education! Do it because it's one hell of a
lot of fun, teaches you how to really control your aircraft, and answers
all these questions. In a Decathlon you can do practically anything, get
wildly out of shape, then recover and fly away casually. It's a great
feeling. Budget about 10 hours.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
As long as you are in the maneuvering range of airspeed you can put any
control hard over with out structural damage. As long as you are above stall and
do these smoothly, nothing will happen except uncoordinated flight. Go back to
your basic FLIGHT TRAINING MANUAL AC 61-21 to see what these are called. In
a slip (no flap) you should not be above 30 degrees of bank and nothing will
happen until you get close to stall.. AC 61-21 calls for demonstrating
accelerated maneuver stalls at 45 degrees of bank but these should be coordinated
Ball centered) Just remember during any of these excessive cross control
maneuvers you should do them without sudden erratic inputs to avoid snap rolls.
I recommend you read your AC 61-21 to get more detailed answers. Get a
CFI/aerobatic qualified friend to show these in an acrobatic type aircraft to
gain
confidence and understand what an aircraft can really do safely. Flying will
be much more pleasant once you experience/master these maneuvers.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
Eric,
I will try to answer as I was taught and as makes sense to me. (Although I
gotta admit I see a certain logic to your scenarios. ;-) )
I was taught that the name applies to the direction of the plane through the
air. In your second scenario, you are wanting to move the plane sideways
through the air. Hence side slip.
Your first scenario still moves the plane ahead relative to the air. Hence
forward slip.
??
I was a glider pilot for 30 years before I finally bit the bullet and
ordered a Kitfox kit. - and decided I better get a power rating. ! As
Colin explained, this may be why I am so comfortable with slips. I hadn't
thought of it before, but it may also be why my instructor had such a hard
time getting me to go around after a bounce. My inclination was to get my
act together and get it on the ground! This is also why I like to shut
my engine off and play glider on a good day. (That is a good BUMPY day to
some pilots.) My light 5/7 doesn't have a very good glide ratio - between
10 and 11 to 1 as near as I can determine - but at a little lower speed, it
does have a reasonable sink rate of about 425 FPM which makes it possible to
soar a bit.
Randy
.
_____
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ceashman@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 4:58 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>Hey, I like this thread. I want to complicate it a bit by asking a
>question. Michel, do you mean a side slip? I think you mean a forward
>slip..............
Randy. I am also liking the topic, (thanks Michel for initiation).
Now my question is, well, I'll play this out as this scenario;
No wind, perfectly calm. I am on final but high and also in a perfect line
with the runway.
I will move stick to the right and balance rudder to the left (all at the
same time). I keep my ground track straight in to the runway. My Kitfox is
now somewhat pointing it's right side to the runway. (and best of all, I am
enjoying the elevator ride down)
Is this not a side slip? 'cause i am facing the runway with my side.
Second scenario;
I am on final. Wind hitting me on my right wing. I need to lower my right
wing to stay on track, so I will move stick to the right and balance rudder
to the left, because I do not want to make a right turn. I keep my ground
track straight in to the runway. My Kitfox is now pointing it's nose to the
runway. Because my slightly low right wing should be compensating for the
wind energy.
Is this not a forward slip? 'cause i am facing the runway with my propellor.
So' Is slipping into the wind (second scenario) a side slip or a forward
slip?
Thanks for the advise, cause I am always a little confused with the book
description of this.
Cheers. Eric Atlanta Classic IV
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Jul 29, 2006, at 10:52 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
> It's actually worse than what we do for a normal spin entry, because
> the trailing wing aileron is down, which increases that wing's angle
> of attack.
Hang on because I am not following, Guy.
When I do a side slip on final (with engine on or not) I always do it
with left stick and right rudder so that, from the left-hand seat, I
get a better view of the runway. My right wing is high, my left is low.
Which is the trailing one? The right wing?
I think I read (as I write in my previous email) that a stall and slip
was less dangerous than a stall and skid. Do you mean it is the
opposite?
Of course, when I side slip, it is well above stall speed, adjusting
for turbulence. It usually happens like this: I am on final, feel how I
will land if I keep the attitude and speed, then I may feel I need to
sink faster to land on the mark. If I put the nose down, I'll increase
speed and will float far down the runway, so I put the nose down but
reduce the speed increase by side slipping. I would always get the ball
in the center before I need to lift the nose again. But I'd like to
know how dangerous it is.
> Do yourself a favor Michel. Go find an aerobatic aircraft and
> instructor.
I intent to, Guy. I even know the pilot and the Bellanca plane that can
do that. But ... I am a husband, a father, a grand-father, an employee
and ... time, you know! Plus that the pilot is mostly at a nearby
airfield and only visits us occasionally.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Setting prop revs NSI |
Thanks for the confirmation Deke, I'm going to fly her today and will
set the revs to the specs provided on the performance sheet. I'll get
the photo's to you soon also. Just back from being away.
Regards
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: Fox5flyer
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:59 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Setting prop revs NSI
Hi all. Just home from Oshkosh. Actually it's AirVenture, but I've
had a difficult time changing old habits.
The numbers given below by Graeme are indeed correct. I spoke with
Lance at length about this a few years ago and he explained that the
engine is pretty much a racing engine the way it's built up and the
rings need this high rpm periodically. I've found with mine over a 325
hour period that I get my best takeoff thrust about 5400 rpm and cruise
torque at right around 3900 rpm using the NSI CAP prop. Lance said
these numbers are fine for normal use, but to run it up to 6200
periodically to keep the top end clean. Soobs are high rpm engines
anyway, so I wouldn't worry much about it.
I have a Cadillac Seville with Northstar engine and one of the factory
recommendations is to periodically put the tranny in 3rd then from 40mph
plant the throttle to the floor until it reaches 6000 rpm (about 87mph)
then let off on it until the speed reaches 40 again. Northstars are
also high performance engines that are mostly run at very low rpms and
are prone to build carbon on the compression rings if not given a good
thrashing occasionally.
Hope this helps.
Deke
Time: 03:02:09 AM PST US
From: "QSS" <msm@byterocky.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs
John, its the NSI 108 HP model. I think they are tweeked up a bit
because the standard EA 81 is much lower in HP than that. Im going to
go
with your figures when Im back in Yeppoon and see how it goes. I'll
let
you know the results.
Cheers
Graeme ----- Original Message -----
From: John Anderson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Yes, they certainly seem high to me me Graeme....I have a friend
with
a normally asperated EA81 and limits 5500 max for t/o. Goes very well,
he has upped the comp ratio a little and bigger carb. You can always
set
the prop to give you more RPM for that one-of if your underpowered a
bit
but will cost on cruise. But that little engine sure is going to last
longer at lower RPM. Is it a std EA81 or have you tweeked it a little?
I
limit to 5000 for t/o but rearly need it and 4000 for cruise but then
I'm turbo'd. John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Hi John, thanks for the advice. I've been following the threads
going back and forth between yourself and others with your own plane
and
being at the same point myself with engine info requirements Im really
close to flying. The problem I have is that I was sent an NSI data
sheet
on engine performance and in it the advice was that take off engine
revs
should be around 6200. I shook my head in disbelieve at these figures
and asked a mate who overhauled my engine what he thought and he
agreed
that the figures were high. I was wondering if the figures quoted are
for the NSI engine with the CAP system. I dont know if that would make
any difference or not but 6200 seem very high and more a kin to the 2
stroke rev range than a four stroke. Figures quoted in the NSI EA 81
OPERATING LIMITS are as follows.
Idle RPM 1350-1400
Cruise RPM 3200-4500
Take off RPM 6200
Max Continuous RPM 5800
Never exceed RPM 6500
Regards
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: John Anderson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Setting prop to revs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Fo a start Graeme, if you get 5000 static, that will certinly
get
you flying safely. At 4700 your'e very near top of the tq curve. John
A.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi guys, I have my prop bolted on and will be experimenting
with
pitch soon but as I am unsure what my max static revs should be I am a
bit concerned. Can some body with an NSI non turbo and ground
adjustable
prop tell me what revs I should expect to see for best results. I was
getting 4700 rpm flat out but feel I should be seeing over 5500 rpm.
The
prop I have put on is a 72 inch 3 blade composite which when installed
into the hub comes down to 70inch.
Regards
Graeme Toft
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
No virus found in this incoming message.
28/07/2006
Message 24
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| Subject: | Priming spars on QB Wings?? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
For the inside of the spars, I plugged one end of each spar with a tennis
ball, poured a quart of Alodine in the spar, plugged the second end with
another tennis ball, and swished away for twenty minutes. Would I do it
again in a dry climate? Probably not.
SteveZ
IV/NSI/CAP
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 4:48 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
What is the groups consensus on whether to prime the front and rear
wingspars or not? This is the QB wing so it would require a ton of masking
to make for a clean look. What do you guys think and has someone done this
before? Is it worth the extra time and work? I am in Utah...very dry
climate...and the plane will never be on floats (at least as long as I own
it) but is it a big point in the resale?
I guess it wouldn't be a huge problem if I sprayed the self etching
primer...who cares if it gets on the ribs a little in the process, they will
be covered anyway.
Thanks,
Darin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49633#49633
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight. The Short and the Long. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:50 AM 7/29/2006, you wrote:
>Also, talking about fires - firewall forward -- do you use Metal lock
>nuts or fiber nuts ?
They're all metal forward. Actually I used very few plastic nuts anywhere,
part of my weight regimen.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 26
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While planes are being advertised for sale, I may as well through mine
in too.
I need to sell my Fox Classic IV w/582. Will take $20K (more than $30K
invested).
If anyone is interested, send me a note off list and I'll give all the
specifics.
Priced to sell (I hope)
Don Smythe
dosmythe@cox.net
Well it's a bit arkward to work out from Australia what the price should
be in USA but I have a MKIV/582 1200 here in Australia with a blue head
motor done about 100hrs and a transponder. I figure nearer $30,000 US
would be more appropriate than $20,000. If you guys in USA are selling
them that cheap then it would probably be worth us Aussies buying from
USA and bringing them back.
Rex
Shaw
Australia
PS
Anyway Don it will be dissapointing to see you leave the Kitfox
clan. Are you sure you want to do this ?
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
When I do a forward slip, I reduce to the proper airspeed, generally 60 then I'll
slip twards the cross wind if there is one, if not, always a right rudder slip.
Now, I have slipped all the way down to 5 ft off the runway, in fact, when
I did my check ride a few years ago, the examiner told me to demonstrate a
slip to land, I slipped and cut out at 20ft from the runway, he said, I told you
to slip to landing, so we did it again, this time I waited until about 5 ft.
off the ground, recovered and flaired to land at the same time, his response,
good one. I think it's very important to slip into the wind, think about it,
we do the same cross control for cross wind correction, if you always slip with
left wing down and you have the cross coming from the right, I feel this can
bring desaster.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50635#50635
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
This is my understanding of a forward slip versus a side slip. you are flying
on a straight ahead course heading, you put in right rudder and then put in left
aileron to keep the same course heading, this is a forward slip. A side
slip is when you are on a straight heading in a forward slip and you want to side
step to line up to the runway, so you keep rudder input and put in either
less aileron or more aileron to move the airplane more in line with the new direction
of flight.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50638#50638
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Resale value |
Rex,
I don't mean to sell cheap but, $20K is my bottom line and that's
where I started. I will not accept $1. less. My hanger mate (The Rich
Man) tried for 3 years to sell his twin engine Piper. He was asking top
dollar and I once told him to dump the plane and he would be better off
in the long run. He just finally sold it but at a big reduced price.
He spent 3 years paying for taxes, annuals, insurance, etc. and ended up
loosing money if he had sold it cheaper in the first place. I'm not
interested in hanging on to an airplane for a year or more when it is
for sale.... I want it sold "NOW" so that is why I'm advertising so
low.
If the plane doesn't sell in a very short time, I'll take it off the
market and try later through other advertising means. Right now, it's
only on the Kitfox list. Later, it might be at a higher price.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: Rex Shaw
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 12:43 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Resale value
While planes are being advertised for sale, I may as well through
mine in too.
I need to sell my Fox Classic IV w/582. Will take $20K (more than
$30K invested).
If anyone is interested, send me a note off list and I'll give all the
specifics.
Priced to sell (I hope)
Don Smythe
dosmythe@cox.net
Well it's a bit arkward to work out from Australia what the price
should be in USA but I have a MKIV/582 1200 here in Australia with a
blue head motor done about 100hrs and a transponder. I figure nearer
$30,000 US would be more appropriate than $20,000. If you guys in USA
are selling them that cheap then it would probably be worth us Aussies
buying from USA and bringing them back.
Rex Shaw
Australia
PS
Anyway Don it will be dissapointing to see you leave the Kitfox
clan. Are you sure you want to do this ?
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
One more note for usage of a slip, to loose altitude to prevent shock cooling of
the engine. I learned this in a mountain seminar. You clear a ridge at lets
say 9000ft and you want to go down to 4000ft don't just pull the nose over,
go into a slip and save the engine from shock cool. Sure you might get a sore
foot from holding the rudder(cessna) but you don't have to worry about the engine.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50653#50653
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Resale value |
Don,
Why are you selling the Kitfox anyhow ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Resale value
Rex,
I don't mean to sell cheap but, $20K is my bottom line and that's
where I started. I will not accept $1. less. My hanger mate (The Rich
Man) tried for 3 years to sell his twin engine Piper. He was asking top
dollar and I once told him to dump the plane and he would be better off
in the long run. He just finally sold it but at a big reduced price.
He spent 3 years paying for taxes, annuals, insurance, etc. and ended up
loosing money if he had sold it cheaper in the first place. I'm not
interested in hanging on to an airplane for a year or more when it is
for sale.... I want it sold "NOW" so that is why I'm advertising so
low.
If the plane doesn't sell in a very short time, I'll take it off
the market and try later through other advertising means. Right now,
it's only on the Kitfox list. Later, it might be at a higher price.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: Rex Shaw
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 12:43 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Resale value
While planes are being advertised for sale, I may as well through
mine in too.
I need to sell my Fox Classic IV w/582. Will take $20K (more than
$30K invested).
If anyone is interested, send me a note off list and I'll give all
the
specifics.
Priced to sell (I hope)
Don Smythe
dosmythe@cox.net
Well it's a bit arkward to work out from Australia what the price
should be in USA but I have a MKIV/582 1200 here in Australia with a
blue head motor done about 100hrs and a transponder. I figure nearer
$30,000 US would be more appropriate than $20,000. If you guys in USA
are selling them that cheap then it would probably be worth us Aussies
buying from USA and bringing them back.
Rex Shaw
Australia
PS
Anyway Don it will be dissapointing to see you leave the Kitfox
clan. Are you sure you want to do this ?
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Priming spars on QB Wings?? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Thanks guys for the advice. I have decided that I will prime the exterior of the
spars with a rattle can self etching primer. I am not going to worry about
the inside of the spar.
Darin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50665#50665
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| Subject: | 4473 is flying again. |
Hi Guys, have just come back from flying 4473. I had 30 minutes in the
circuit checking controls and instruments etc. I feel like a kid in a
lolly shop and will most probably sleep with a ear to ear grin tonight.
All appeared to be OK except revs around 5000 created some vibration
which I'm putting down to a blade being out of sink to the rest. The
rebuild took 7 months and was completed with the help of many people
will read this thread. Thank you all from not only me but from my kids
and wife who believe without wings Im unbearable to live with. I have
kept a folder from all those kind people who sent best wishes, technical
support and even parts. Your names will all be placed onto the engine
cowl to display my appreciation to you all. Each time I fly you will fly
with me.
Kind regards to all
Graeme
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