Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:32 AM - Re: Slips and all the rest. (Michael Gibbs)
2. 03:39 AM - Re: (humour) was: Flaps. for Eric (Ceashman@aol.com)
3. 04:23 AM - Michigan Kitfoxers (Fox5flyer)
4. 04:59 AM - Passenger safety. was: Flaps. (Michel Verheughe)
5. 05:27 AM - SV: Survival at sea. (Michel Verheughe)
6. 05:52 AM - Re: Michigan Kitfoxers (Sid Hausding)
7. 06:38 AM - Passenger safety - Michel (Jose M. Toro)
8. 08:07 AM - Re: Passenger safety. was: Flaps. (wingnut)
9. 08:24 AM - Re: Slips and all the rest. (kitfoxmike)
10. 08:32 AM - Re: Survival at sea. WAS: Rotax 912 (Andrew Matthaey)
11. 09:42 AM - Re: Michigan Kitfoxers (Richard Rabbers)
12. 10:02 AM - Re: Passenger safety - Michel (Michel Verheughe)
13. 10:14 AM - Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul (Jimmie Blackwell)
14. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: Slips and all the rest. (Michel Verheughe)
15. 10:31 AM - Re: Slips and all the rest. (kitfoxmike)
16. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: Slips and all the rest. (Clint Bazzill)
17. 10:54 AM - Re: Slips and all the rest. (kitfoxmike)
18. 10:54 AM - more on Atlanta crash (Marco Menezes)
19. 10:55 AM - Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul (flier)
20. 11:19 AM - Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul (kitfoxmike)
21. 11:26 AM - Re: Slips and all the rest. (kitfoxmike)
22. 11:30 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (kurt schrader)
23. 11:39 AM - Re: Survival at sea. WAS: Rotax 912 (kurt schrader)
24. 11:43 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (6440 Auto Parts)
25. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Slips and all the rest. (Clint Bazzill)
26. 11:53 AM - Re: Passenger safety - Michel (John Marzulli)
27. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (jdisher@intergate.com)
28. 12:04 PM - Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul (Jimmie Blackwell)
29. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul (Jimmie Blackwell)
30. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (Clint Bazzill)
31. 12:14 PM - Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul (kitfoxmike)
32. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (Marco Menezes)
33. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (Marco Menezes)
34. 12:43 PM - Re: Passenger safety - Michel (Jose M. Toro)
35. 12:44 PM - Re: (humour) was: Flaps. for Michel. (kurt schrader)
36. 01:55 PM - Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul (Barry West)
37. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (John Disher)
38. 03:50 PM - Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul (Jimmie Blackwell)
39. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (Lowell Fitt)
40. 04:04 PM - Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul (Rexster)
41. 05:20 PM - Re: Survival at sea. WAS: Rotax 912 (Rex Shaw)
42. 05:21 PM - Re: Kitfox Crash-Latest report (David Estapa)
43. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (eccles)
44. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (Rexster)
45. 06:05 PM - Latest report (Sid Hausding)
46. 06:11 PM - Michigan Kitfoxers (Sid Hausding)
47. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (eccles)
48. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (eccles)
49. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (flier)
50. 06:36 PM - Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul (flier)
51. 07:04 PM - Kitfox Crash (Clint Bazzill)
52. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash-Latest report (wingsdown)
53. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (Lowell Fitt)
54. 07:46 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (Don Pearsall)
55. 07:50 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (Rexster)
56. 09:15 PM - Re: Michigan Kitfoxers (Richard Rabbers)
57. 10:38 PM - Motorcycle grip Throttle (Kenneth and Alice Jones)
58. 11:52 PM - (off-topic) temperature. WAS Passenger safety - Michel (Michel Verheughe)
59. 11:57 PM - (off-topic) Hurricanes WAS Passenger safety - Michel (Michel Verheughe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Clint sez:
>I will buy your whole family dinner if you can demonstrate a spin
>from a slip in a Kitfox.
I'd collect on that if I hadn't wrecked my plane, Clint. I did it many a time.
You slip an airplane by "cross controlling," i.e., rudder opposite of
the aileron input. You spin an airplane by stalling it while
"uncoordinated," i.e., rudder inappropriate (or even, opposite) for
the aileron input. You do the math.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: (humour) was: Flaps. for Eric |
posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Eric: You are certainly conscious about safety...
Well Jose'
You can never be too relaxed when it comes to safety!!!
~I make sure the passenger door is good and tight before the wheels start
rolling.
~I make sure the safety belt harness is not twisted , correctly aligned and
the clasp is secured. All this is done after I make sure the passenger door is
good and tight (Ha!Ha!)
Now I am not kidding. On one flight, the passenger strapped in and closed and
secured the door. We rolled down the runway and headed for altitude and no
where in particular.
Not long after there was this laud intermittent banging sound on the
airframe. It frightened the life out of me, did I break a right side bungee???
and how
will I land with a lame right leg!!!
Being the calm experienced pilot (in front of my passenger) I explained that
I will go through a thorough analytical process of the situation (buying time
with sweat running down my spine).
Groping around the cabin, I discovered that when my passenger secured the
safety belt, the long excessive length of lap belt was hanging out the door
before the door was closed. And this was batting the side of the plane below the
door at the break neck speed we were doing.
It frightened the weight and balance out of me.
Cheers. Eric.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Michigan Kitfoxers |
I've gone through my messages and dug out those who said they wanted to
be part of the Michigan Kitfoxers. I don't know if I got them all or
not, and I suspect that I didn't so if any of you out there want to be
part of this group, please add your name to it and send it back to me.
I have no idea where this will go, but for now I'll at the very least
keep and maintain the list so that when we decide to do something it'll
be easy to make contact. I'll also provide a copy of the list to all of
those who are on it.
To all those on the list, please ensure the name is spelled correctly,
add your email address, location, aircraft type, and phone number
(optional), whether still building, flying, or lurking, and any other
pertinent info. Don't worry, I won't be using this list for
telemarketing, nor providing it to any sort of marketing entity. Your
information is safe with me. Like I said, I don't know what's next, but
this is a start.
Deke
Mikado MI, S5
Marco Menezes
Lynn Matteson
Sid Hausding
Fred Shiple
Rexter
Malcolm
Deke Morisse
Richard Rabbers
John Pery (Kansas)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Passenger safety. was: Flaps. |
> From: Ceashman@aol.com
> I discovered that when my passenger secured the
> safety belt, the long excessive length of lap belt was hanging out the door
> before the door was closed.
Been there, done that, Eric. Only that it was my own belt hanging out.
But, for my passengers, I have made a "preflight" instructions that they can read
while I do my own preflight. The plastified card is always in my right door
side pocket.
It says, in Norwegian, approximatively the following:
- As a passenger in a hombuilt aircraft, you are not covered by your normal insurance
but by the aircraft compulsory third-party insurance.
- The flight is for your pleasure. If, at any time, it feels unpleasant, please
notify the pilot and he will return as soon as possible to the airfield.
- When you hear ATC speaking, stop talking to the pilot, it may be a message addressed
to us.
- If you lean heavily on the door, it may open. Simply pull it closed again, it
doesn't affect the flight.
- Under take-off and landing, make sure you give the pilot enough room for the
stick and pedals since he may need full deployment.
My passengers take this information very positively.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 5
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| Subject: | Survival at sea. |
> From: John King [kingjohne@adelphia.net]
> Use lots of ping pong balls. They add very little weight and can be stuffed
in a lot of small places.
You know, John, I am old and my memory is failing me, but I am sure I read, many,
many years ago, about ping pong balls in aircraft wings. Was it in British
aircraft during WWII? When they landed on the makeshift runway, across the flat
land leading to the rock of Gibraltar? Or am I mixing everything? But I am sure
I read about ping pong balls earlier.
One thing is for sure, it doesn't have to be resistant to high pressure. When I
e.g. remove the sensor of the log (speedometer) of my sailboat, at the bottom
of the keel, there is hardly any pressure and I can hold it with my hand. You
have to go down to 10 meters to double the surface pressure (2 atmospheres).
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Michigan Kitfoxers |
Sounds like a cool idea and one that might benefit all of us for info, building
assistance and parts........make it a lot faster for area information, flying
conditions and airport availability, along with the ideas, materials and swapping
of building pieces and tips..........not to subtract from or stray from the
original Kitfox forum or lists, just to augment, and provide local connections
to improve the already good system(s) and lists.
Sid
----------------
Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
I've gone through my messages and dug out those who said they wanted
to be part of the Michigan Kitfoxers. I don't know if I got them all or not,
and I suspect that I didn't so if any of you out there want to be part of this
group, please add your name to it and send it back to me. I have no idea where
this will go, but for now I'll at the very least keep and maintain the list
so that when we decide to do something it'll be easy to make contact. I'll
also provide a copy of the list to all of those who are on it.
To all those on the list, please ensure the name is spelled correctly, add your
email address, location, aircraft type, and phone number (optional), whether
still building, flying, or lurking, and any other pertinent info. Don't worry,
I won't be using this list for telemarketing, nor providing it to any sort
of marketing entity. Your information is safe with me. Like I said, I don't
know what's next, but this is a start.
Deke
Mikado MI, S5
Marco Menezes
Lynn Matteson
Sid Hausding
2140 So. Third Ave.
Alpena, Michigan 49707
989-356-0048
avidsid@yahoo.com
Avid Speedwing, 582, TG N204S
lurker 'wannabee'
Fred Shiple
Rexter
Malcolm
Deke Morisse
Richard Rabbers
John Pery (Kansas)
"Why can't we all just get along?"
---------------------------------
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Passenger safety - Michel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Michel:
This "passengers preflight checklist" is excellent. I
would add an entry for the use of "floating device"
when flying over water if applicable. I used to be
member of a Navy Flying Club that had a couple of
Cessna T-41. That was part of the passenger's
preflight briefing. Is it that checklist
copyrighted??? I would like to use it, but don't want
to trigger an "international legal action"!
Saludos my friend,
Jose
--- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
> But, for my passengers, I have made a "preflight"
> instructions that they can read while I do my own
> preflight. The plastified card is always in my right
> door side pocket.
>
> It says, in Norwegian, approximatively the
> following:
> - As a passenger in a hombuilt aircraft, you are not
> covered by your normal insurance but by the aircraft
> compulsory third-party insurance.
> - The flight is for your pleasure. If, at any time,
> it feels unpleasant, please notify the pilot and he
> will return as soon as possible to the airfield.
> - When you hear ATC speaking, stop talking to the
> pilot, it may be a message addressed to us.
> - If you lean heavily on the door, it may open.
> Simply pull it closed again, it doesn't affect the
> flight.
> - Under take-off and landing, make sure you give the
> pilot enough room for the stick and pedals since he
> may need full deployment.
>
> My passengers take this information very positively.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
__________________________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Passenger safety. was: Flaps. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
That's a really good idea. I'm going to do that too.
> But, for my passengers, I have made a "preflight" instructions that they can
read while I do my own preflight. The plastified card is always in my right door
side pocket.
>
> It says, in Norwegian, approximatively the following:
> - As a passenger in a hombuilt aircraft, you are not covered by your normal insurance
but by the aircraft compulsory third-party insurance.
> - The flight is for your pleasure. If, at any time, it feels unpleasant, please
notify the pilot and he will return as soon as possible to the airfield.
> - When you hear ATC speaking, stop talking to the pilot, it may be a message
addressed to us.
> - If you lean heavily on the door, it may open. Simply pull it closed again,
it doesn't affect the flight.
> - Under take-off and landing, make sure you give the pilot enough room for the
stick and pedals since he may need full deployment.
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52280#52280
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
Oh come on guys, you can't tail spin in a slip. Why? because you don't have critical
angle of attack, that is if you are doing a proper slip, meaning you have
forward stick. I want to add a tid bit here. Last night at altitude I went
and did one of those base to final turns that somebody, not saying who, was
mentioning with the tightening the turn with rudder, wow, that scared the crap
out of my wife, I didn't tell her I was going to do it, I just did a 30degree
left bank and then put in a bunch of left rudder to make a steeper turn then
I leveled the wing(to keep 30degree angle) or made a right input in the aileron,
I tell ya, it woke me up, felt awful weard. If you guys are doing this on
approach, STOP, because this WILL put you right into a spin before you can say
crap. DO NOT use the rudder to make turns, make the angle steeper with a corridanated
turn (ie. use a little rudder) and raise your air speed or make a go
around. If you are not sure how to handle a short approach, get some instruction,
by all means do not experiment.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52288#52288
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Survival at sea. WAS: Rotax 912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
I love it ;-) Thanks John!
Andrew
do not archive
>From: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Survival at sea. WAS: Rotax 912
>Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 22:46:48 -0400
>
>Andrew,
>
>An ultralight that was flying the Caribbean filled his wings with ping pong
>balls. All the floatation was in the wings. They were later removed.
>
>--
>John King Warrenton, VA
>
>
>Andrew Matthaey wrote:
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
>><spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
>>
>>John, are you really serious - Ping Pong balls?? It is a brilliant idea
>>LoL...
>>
>>Andrew
>>
>>
>>>From: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
>>>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Survival at sea. WAS: Rotax 912
>>>Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 17:41:32 -0400
>>>
>>>Michel,
>>>
>>>Use lots of ping pong balls. They add very little weight and can be
>>>stuffed in a lot of small places.
>>>
>>>--
>>>John King Warrenton, VA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Michigan Kitfoxers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
> Michigan Kitfoxers
Seems like a good 'location / type' contact list could benefit all on (our) Matronics
list. The existing member list includes many voids and is not very well
suited for sorting. Perhaps someday the structure could be improved. (not to
minimize the great work that they do)
It seems to me that those involved on this list might all welcome the chance to
make contact with others no matter where they may find themselves. (when traveling,
on lay-overs...etc) It might be tuff to avoid keeping a list that included
contact info/email addresses from being captured by 'the outside' creating
junk mail or other?
Meantime I'm glad to be part of this new effort and assume good will come.
Richard Rabbers
627 W Main Street
Benton Harbor, MI 49022
(269) 925-1901
rira1950@yahoo.com
Kitfox Model 1 - s/n 168
(purchased from 2nd owner - slowly being restored)
Rotax 618, Powerfin prop
Full Lotus floats
- I'm enjoying this list very much. It's great to be able to become familar with
Kitfox prior to flight...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52307#52307
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Passenger safety - Michel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Aug 4, 2006, at 3:36 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
> Is it that checklist copyrighted???
Jose, you will have to discuss that with my lawyer at: crook@corrupt.com
...
Kidding! I am only please if I can help. Use it as you wish.
Regarding the floating device, I have plenty of them on my sailboat and
I always take them, for me and an eventual passenger, when I fly over
the fjord to e.g. Sweden. I don't think it is necessary to have it on
the check list because if the passenger refuses to take it, I refuse to
open the right hand door! :-)
Incidentally, for the last three weeks, I have been swimming in the sea
nearly every day, we enjoy an extraordinary nice summer in south
Norway. The water temperature is 22 degrees C. Not a record for Puerto
Rico, I know, but ... remember that we are at latitude 60 north! I am
just back from the beach and on my way to the airfield for a bit of
late Kitfox flying, when the sun is low and the temperature cool. So,
here I am, singing: Coge tu sombrero y pontelo, vamos a la playa,
calienta el sol! :-)
Fuerte abrazo,
Michel
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul |
Wanted to check and find out if any of you are having or had trouble keeping the
Bing carbs on the 912 UL.
One of my carbs works part way out of the rubber flange after the engine runs
about 15 minutes and would fall off were it not for the retaining springs.
These are some of the things I have done and noted:
- My rubber flanges are the new type with the 8mm spacer, part # 267 788.
- Engine is running smooth, but checked for carb balance anyway and they are
well
balanced.
- After taking the carb off I noted that the inside of the rubber flange has
two places where the rubber material is missing, about the size of a match
head and
several other much smaller areas where rubber material is missing.
- My thought was that perhaps the metal part of the carb that fits into the
rubber flange
had a rough spot that rubbed on the rubber flange. Not the case, the metal
part of
the carb that fits into the rubber flange is smooth, no burrs.
- Both of my rubber flanges were put on new about a year ago.
At $87.00 apiece it seems to me that these rubber flanges should last longer.
Would appreciate any ideas from you folks.
Jimmie
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Aug 4, 2006, at 5:23 PM, kitfoxmike wrote:
> Oh come on guys, you can't tail spin in a slip.
Guys! I think we all agree! Uncoordinated attitude is always a risk.
But - and as my initial question was - I understand that a slip is not
as dangerous than a skid. It doesn't mean that a slip cannot be
dangerous, it means that it is less so and we have to be careful,
anyway, anytime and under any circumstance.
So, let us smoke the peace calumet and have a good time, flying safe.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
Interesting enough, this same type of thread is on the vansairforce site. This was posted and is very interesting to watch. http://www.apstraining.com/clips/skidded_turn_high.wmv
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52321#52321
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
If I do remember right there was one post that one reported about worrying about
going inverted on base to final, being brought out by using rudder to sharpen
the turn, this video demonstrates what happens when you do that.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52330#52330
Message 18
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| Subject: | more on Atlanta crash |
classic mistake, tragic results.
http://www.ajc.com/wireless/content/metro/fayette/stories/0803planecrash.html
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
__________________________________________________
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Are those the stiff rubber (aftermarket I believe)
flanges Jimmie?
If so, I'm surprised you're having any trouble as
I've been running mine now for years. If not, you
need to switch over.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
list@matronics.com>
>Wanted to check and find out if any of you are
having or had trouble keeping the Bing carbs on the
912 UL.
>
> One of my carbs works part way out of the rubber
flange after the engine runs about 15 minutes and
would fall off were it not for the retaining springs.
>
> These are some of the things I have done and noted:
>
> - My rubber flanges are the new type with the 8mm
spacer, part # 267 788.
>
> - Engine is running smooth, but checked for carb
balance anyway and they are well
> balanced.
>
> - After taking the carb off I noted that the
inside of the rubber flange has
> two places where the rubber material is
missing, about the size of a match head and
> several other much smaller areas where rubber
material is missing.
>
> - My thought was that perhaps the metal part of
the carb that fits into the rubber flange
> had a rough spot that rubbed on the rubber
flange. Not the case, the metal part of
> the carb that fits into the rubber flange is
smooth, no burrs.
>
> - Both of my rubber flanges were put on new about
a year ago.
>
> At $87.00 apiece it seems to me that these rubber
flanges should last longer. Would appreciate any
ideas from you folks.
>
> Jimmie
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
actually he said they were the rotax newer ones, they are bad in my opinion, I've
tried them and didn't like them. I now use the aftermarket ones, been on there
over 300 hrs with no problems.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52339#52339
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
first off, I'm not upset, just concerned and I don't want to read anymore about
accidents. Now, if a person is in a slip and gets messed up in there thinking,
they can go into a skid. Now, I've read some post were people are slipping
and going in a side slip, now in my opinion a side slip is ok, but not to be
mistaken for doing a base to final, or any other turn, it's just for alignment
when off slightly on your final with the runway. The skid can accure if doing
a slip on base to final, expecially if you are turning one direction over the
other depends which side you are slipping. My advice, take out the slip when
making any kind of turn and make sure you have proper down elevator. Last note:
this thread says slips and all the rest. Skids are one of the rest.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52346#52346
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Before I decided to build my Fox I got the accident
summary on kitFox's from the EAA and went thru about
300 reports. In all of that there were only 4 deaths
in 2 of the 300 accidents. Both were from steep
takeoff stalls. I gathered that the kitFox was a very
survival plane, if one just doesn't try to show off on
takeoff and is prepared for engine failure.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
> At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rick Cooler
> <kitfox.cooler@yahoo.com>
> >
> >here is the link
> >
>
>http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9621436/detail.html?subid=22105243&qs=1;bp=t
>
> Wow. A departure stall/spin in a Kitfox. I thought
> only Lancair's did
> that. >:-}
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly
> to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
__________________________________________________
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Survival at sea. WAS: Rotax 912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Add air filled zip-lock bags as floatation devices.
Some put them in their flightsuit pockets in the
Marines (ah, during survival training to ofset the
heavy flight boots. Shoosh)
Kurt S.
--- Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote:
> when a Flight star flew from south America across
> the Ocean to sun fun the
> pilot put over 300 inflated condoms in the wings
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
__________________________________________________
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "6440 Auto Parts" <sales@6440autoparts.com>
If that is the only fatalities involved then it would be prudent
to install an angle of attack and that problem should go away.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 1:29 PM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Before I decided to build my Fox I got the accident
> summary on kitFox's from the EAA and went thru about
> 300 reports. In all of that there were only 4 deaths
> in 2 of the 300 accidents. Both were from steep
> takeoff stalls. I gathered that the kitFox was a very
> survival plane, if one just doesn't try to show off on
> takeoff and is prepared for engine failure.
>
> Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>
> --- Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
>
>> At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you wrote:
>> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rick Cooler
>> <kitfox.cooler@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >here is the link
>> >
>>
>>http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9621436/detail.html?subid=22105243&qs=1;bp=t
>>
>> Wow. A departure stall/spin in a Kitfox. I thought
>> only Lancair's did
>> that. >:-}
>>
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly
>> to Bob Ducar.
>>
>> Do not archive
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
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The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
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Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Passenger safety - Michel |
A water temp of 22C? Wow, I think I need to move to Norway to get warm! It's
cold out here in Seattle. Last week we had four days of summer and an OAT of
about 95F, but a water temp of about 55F.
On 8/4/06, Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> On Aug 4, 2006, at 3:36 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
> > Is it that checklist copyrighted???
>
> Jose, you will have to discuss that with my lawyer at: crook@corrupt.com
> ...
> Kidding! I am only please if I can help. Use it as you wish.
>
> Regarding the floating device, I have plenty of them on my sailboat and
> I always take them, for me and an eventual passenger, when I fly over
> the fjord to e.g. Sweden. I don't think it is necessary to have it on
> the check list because if the passenger refuses to take it, I refuse to
> open the right hand door! :-)
>
> Incidentally, for the last three weeks, I have been swimming in the sea
> nearly every day, we enjoy an extraordinary nice summer in south
> Norway. The water temperature is 22 degrees C. Not a record for Puerto
> Rico, I know, but ... remember that we are at latitude 60 north! I am
> just back from the beach and on my way to the airfield for a bit of
> late Kitfox flying, when the sun is low and the temperature cool. So,
> here I am, singing: Coge tu sombrero y pontelo, vamos a la playa,
> calienta el sol! :-)
>
> Fuerte abrazo,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jdisher@intergate.com
Are they sure it was a stall spin? I have a IV Speedster and its a hard
plane to
keep in a stalled condition. It just mushes down till it gets a little speed
back, and if you insist on holding the stick back it will do it again, but no
wild break and pitch like my Bonanza. The photos look like he flew it straight
down cause its all in a pile. From the limited info of the pictures I also
wondered if the lift strut on the left wing didn't separate and let it just
stream down.
I always figured that it the structure held together I could put it down
anywhere. A large roof-top, a tree, somebodies back yard, a subdivision
street.
Somewhere. How bad can you get beat up at 35 mph if you're the least bit
attentive. Don't worry about the fox at that point, she belongs to the
insurance company. It's time to sya.
Quoting kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Before I decided to build my Fox I got the accident
> summary on kitFox's from the EAA and went thru about
> 300 reports. In all of that there were only 4 deaths
> in 2 of the 300 accidents. Both were from steep
> takeoff stalls. I gathered that the kitFox was a very
> survival plane, if one just doesn't try to show off on
> takeoff and is prepared for engine failure.
>
> Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>
> --- Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
>
>> At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you wrote:
>> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rick Cooler
>> <kitfox.cooler@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >here is the link
>> >
>>
>> http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9621436/detail.html?subid=22105243&qs=1;bp=t
>>
>> Wow. A departure stall/spin in a Kitfox. I thought
>> only Lancair's did
>> that. >:-}
>>
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly
>> to Bob Ducar.
>>
>> Do not archive
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul |
They are the stiffer ones and I think are impregnated with kevlar.
I did just discover one possible cause. My carb has two retaining springs, one
on each side. They do not have the spring on top of the carb that attaches
to the balancing tube. Do you have this top spring?
flier <FLIER@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier"
Are those the stiff rubber (aftermarket I believe)
flanges Jimmie?
If so, I'm surprised you're having any trouble as
I've been running mine now for years. If not, you
need to switch over.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
list@matronics.com>
>Wanted to check and find out if any of you are
having or had trouble keeping the Bing carbs on the
912 UL.
>
> One of my carbs works part way out of the rubber
flange after the engine runs about 15 minutes and
would fall off were it not for the retaining springs.
>
> These are some of the things I have done and noted:
>
> - My rubber flanges are the new type with the 8mm
spacer, part # 267 788.
>
> - Engine is running smooth, but checked for carb
balance anyway and they are well
> balanced.
>
> - After taking the carb off I noted that the
inside of the rubber flange has
> two places where the rubber material is
missing, about the size of a match head and
> several other much smaller areas where rubber
material is missing.
>
> - My thought was that perhaps the metal part of
the carb that fits into the rubber flange
> had a rough spot that rubbed on the rubber
flange. Not the case, the metal part of
> the carb that fits into the rubber flange is
smooth, no burrs.
>
> - Both of my rubber flanges were put on new about
a year ago.
>
> At $87.00 apiece it seems to me that these rubber
flanges should last longer. Would appreciate any
ideas from you folks.
>
> Jimmie
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul |
When you say, "aftermarket", do you mean a rubber flange that is different from
the ones that Rotax sells and has the 8mm spacer or a flange that someone other
than Rotax sells? If someone other than Rotax sells them they may be a lot
cheaper.
Thanks
Jimmie
kitfoxmike <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike"
actually he said they were the rotax newer ones, they are bad in my opinion, I've
tried them and didn't like them. I now use the aftermarket ones, been on there
over 300 hrs with no problems.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52339#52339
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
I think they are mekuni(spelling) and they are much cheaper.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52361#52361
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
Good advice for whatever airplane one might be driving, Kurt.
do not archive
kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
Before I decided to build my Fox I got the accident
summary on kitFox's from the EAA and went thru about
300 reports. In all of that there were only 4 deaths
in 2 of the 300 accidents. Both were from steep
takeoff stalls. I gathered that the kitFox was a very
survival plane, if one just doesn't try to show off on
takeoff and is prepared for engine failure.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Guy Buchanan wrote:
> At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rick Cooler
>
> >
> >here is the link
> >
>
>http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9621436/detail.html?subid=22105243&qs=1;bp=t
>
> Wow. A departure stall/spin in a Kitfox. I thought
> only Lancair's did
> that. >:-}
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly
> to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
__________________________________________________
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
__________________________________________________
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on climb-out and tried
to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
jdisher@intergate.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jdisher@intergate.com
Are they sure it was a stall spin? I have a IV Speedster and its a hard
plane to
keep in a stalled condition. It just mushes down till it gets a little speed
back, and if you insist on holding the stick back it will do it again, but no
wild break and pitch like my Bonanza. The photos look like he flew it straight
down cause its all in a pile. From the limited info of the pictures I also
wondered if the lift strut on the left wing didn't separate and let it just
stream down.
I always figured that it the structure held together I could put it down
anywhere. A large roof-top, a tree, somebodies back yard, a subdivision
street.
Somewhere. How bad can you get beat up at 35 mph if you're the least bit
attentive. Don't worry about the fox at that point, she belongs to the
insurance company. It's time to sya.
Quoting kurt schrader :
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>
>
> Before I decided to build my Fox I got the accident
> summary on kitFox's from the EAA and went thru about
> 300 reports. In all of that there were only 4 deaths
> in 2 of the 300 accidents. Both were from steep
> takeoff stalls. I gathered that the kitFox was a very
> survival plane, if one just doesn't try to show off on
> takeoff and is prepared for engine failure.
>
> Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>
> --- Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
>> At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you wrote:
>> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rick Cooler
>>
>> >
>> >here is the link
>> >
>>
>> http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9621436/detail.html?subid=22105243&qs=1;bp=t
>>
>> Wow. A departure stall/spin in a Kitfox. I thought
>> only Lancair's did
>> that. >:-}
>>
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly
>> to Bob Ducar.
>>
>> Do not archive
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Passenger safety - Michel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Michel:
Can I go with you for that late Kitfox flying? Have
not flown since February and am feeling by this time
like an addict without his stuff. Right now, Puerto
Rico is in the hurricane season, so most of the light
planes are stored in a garage. Some time soon...I
hope...
Jose
--- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
I am
> just back from the beach and on my way to the
> airfield for a bit of
> late Kitfox flying, when the sun is low and the
> temperature cool. So,
> here I am, singing: Coge tu sombrero y pontelo,
> vamos a la playa,
> calienta el sol! :-)
>
__________________________________________________
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: (humour) was: Flaps. for Michel. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I agree that the throttle is a good thing to hold on
to. I intentionally mounted my prop control switch
where I could use my index finger to operate it. And
my thumb operates the landing light switch while still
holding on to the throttle too.
I had thought about putting a motorcycle grip throttle
on the flap handle and operating it like a helo
collective. Better spot landings. ;-)
I also wrote my checklists to always be in a left to
right and then down, cockpit sweep. I tried twice to
takeoff using the sweep without the checklist. First
time it suddenly cooled off in the cockpit as the
right door slowly opened in flight. The checklist,
feeling rejected, blew out the door. The second time
I forgot to set my prop pitch on a stop and go. There
I went down the runway being chased by a landing plane
as I set power, pitch, power, pitch.... and finally
took off at cruise power. Embarrassing, all those RPM
changes!
Too old to sweep well. Got to use the checklist.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
__________________________________________________
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul |
Jimmy, I am surprised you are having this problem with the 912 UL. I
have a 912 ULS and went through a lot of problem with the shaking at
start up and shut down of the engine. It was really violent. I sent
the gearbox to Lockwood for them to tighten the sprag clutch and this
greatly reduced the shaking. The 912 ULS tended to shake more than the
other 912's and of course it is exagerated because the carbs are further
away from the center of the engine than in other applications.
I also bought rubber flanges from a motorcyle shop. They ordered them
from a catlog. Remember, BMW used Bing carburettors - don't know if
they still do. They were less than half the cost from Lockwood.
These things together solved the problem. About 200 hours now and no
more carburettors coming loose or tearing of the rubber flanges.
I guess this is what others are calling aftermarket but I think they
were exactly the same as Rotax supplies.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jimmie Blackwell
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul
Wanted to check and find out if any of you are having or had trouble
keeping the Bing carbs on the 912 UL.
One of my carbs works part way out of the rubber flange after the
engine runs about 15 minutes and would fall off were it not for the
retaining springs.
These are some of the things I have done and noted:
- My rubber flanges are the new type with the 8mm spacer, part # 267
788.
- Engine is running smooth, but checked for carb balance anyway and
they are well
balanced.
- After taking the carb off I noted that the inside of the rubber
flange has
two places where the rubber material is missing, about the size of
a match head and
several other much smaller areas where rubber material is missing.
- My thought was that perhaps the metal part of the carb that fits
into the rubber flange
had a rough spot that rubbed on the rubber flange. Not the case,
the metal part of
the carb that fits into the rubber flange is smooth, no burrs.
- Both of my rubber flanges were put on new about a year ago.
At $87.00 apiece it seems to me that these rubber flanges should last
longer. Would appreciate any ideas from you folks.
Jimmie
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
That's why we have always been told to go straight ahead and find a soft
spot if you atren't up to a specific altitude. I have lost power on takeo
ff
twice, although not completely, that is if that 4 banger with two cylinde
rs
shut Dow can still put out anything, but I was at about 200 to 250 feet
which gives you lots of time in a lightly loaded Fox. I was able to maint
ain
about 45mph and do a very slow easy turn back and still had about half of
the runway left. On the second one I must have looked a little ruffled,
because a spectator asked my if I carried toilet paper in the plane.
-------Original Message-------
Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on climb-out
and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
jdisher@intergate.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jdisher@intergate.com
Are they sure it was a stall spin? I have a IV Speedster and its a hard
plane to
keep in a stalled condition. It just mushes down till it gets a little sp
eed
back, and if you insist on holding the stick back it will do it again, bu
t
no
wild break and pitch like my Bonanza. The photos look like he flew it
straight
down cause its all in a pile. From the limited info of the pictures I als
o
wondered if the lift strut on the left wing didn't separate and let it ju
st
stream down.
I always figured that it the structure held together I could put it down
anywhere. A large roof-top, a tree, somebodies back yard, a subdivision
street.
Somewhere. How bad can you get beat up at 35 mph if you're the least bit
attentive. Don't worry about the fox at that point, she belongs to the
insurance company. It's time to sya.
Quoting kurt schrader :
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>
>
> Before I decided to build my Fox I got the accident
> summary on kitFox's from the EAA and went thru about
> 300 reports. In all of that there were only 4 deaths
> in 2 of the 300 accidents. Both were from steep
> takeoff stalls. I gathered that the kitFox was a very
> survival plane, if one just doesn't try to show off on
> takeoff and is prepared for engine failure.
>
> Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>
> --- Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
>> At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul |
Thank you for the information on BMW's. I think we all expect to pay a premium
to enjoy our hobby of flying, but in my opinion Rotax is starting to gouge us
to hard.
For example, the rubber flange for the bing carb connection is shown in the latest
Lockwood catalog as $44.00. Yet when I priced it today the cost to us has
more doubled to $95.00. With the trouble I have been having lately I am starting
to think Jabiru.
Barry West <barry@pgtc.com> wrote:
Jimmy, I am surprised you are having this problem with the 912 UL. I
have a 912 ULS and went through a lot of problem with the shaking at start up
and shut down of the engine. It was really violent. I sent the gearbox to Lockwood
for them to tighten the sprag clutch and this greatly reduced the shaking.
The 912 ULS tended to shake more than the other 912's and of course it is
exagerated because the carbs are further away from the center of the engine
than in other applications.
I also bought rubber flanges from a motorcyle shop. They ordered them from a
catlog. Remember, BMW used Bing carburettors - don't know if they still do.
They were less than half the cost from Lockwood.
These things together solved the problem. About 200 hours now and no more carburettors
coming loose or tearing of the rubber flanges.
I guess this is what others are calling aftermarket but I think they were exactly
the same as Rotax supplies.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jimmie Blackwell
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul
Wanted to check and find out if any of you are having or had trouble keeping
the Bing carbs on the 912 UL.
One of my carbs works part way out of the rubber flange after the engine runs
about 15 minutes and would fall off were it not for the retaining springs.
These are some of the things I have done and noted:
- My rubber flanges are the new type with the 8mm spacer, part # 267 788.
- Engine is running smooth, but checked for carb balance anyway and they are
well
balanced.
- After taking the carb off I noted that the inside of the rubber flange has
two places where the rubber material is missing, about the size of a match
head and
several other much smaller areas where rubber material is missing.
- My thought was that perhaps the metal part of the carb that fits into the
rubber flange
had a rough spot that rubbed on the rubber flange. Not the case, the metal
part of
the carb that fits into the rubber flange is smooth, no burrs.
- Both of my rubber flanges were put on new about a year ago.
At $87.00 apiece it seems to me that these rubber flanges should last longer.
Would appreciate any ideas from you folks.
Jimmie
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Marco's post reminds me of a post I recently sent to the Lancair list.
There has been a long thread having to with aircraft accident stastics.
Something about how to measure them - flight hour or passenger miles. The
argument involved whether general aviation is more or less safe and by how
much, than the scheduled air carriers and if so why. Lots of talk about
concern for passengers keeping ones mind on business etc. skill level,
training and, of course, a lot of posturing, pontificating and axe grinding.
Anyway my comment had to do with my airman physical that I took Tuesday and
a conversation I had with another pilot there for the same reason - but his
was a Class I while mine was the class III. I found we lived in neighboring
towns and I asked him if he had an airplane. He said no and went further to
say that he would not fly in a general aviation airplane. Then he
volunteered that his company - US Air, to his knowledge, loses about 3
pilots a year to general aviation accidents.
Now if this is a valid number and given US Air's published pilot population
of 3228, they lose just under one pilot per thousand per year. I guess the
way I read this, assuming my new friend's numbers are somewhat accurate, it
can be concluded that there is a problem here.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:40 PM
> Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on climb-out
> and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
.
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul |
Hi Guys,
This thread ran a month or two ago. I have a part number for "aftermar
ket" flanges that are used on Sea Doo snowmobile engines. Mine have been
on for years and work fine. Cost? Less than $10 each!
Rex in Michigan
-- Jimmie Blackwell <jimmieblackwell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Thank you for the information on BMW's. I think we all expect to pay a
premium to enjoy our hobby of flying, but in my opinion Rotax is startin
g to gouge us to hard. For example, the rubber flange for the bing car
b connection is shown in the latest Lockwood catalog as $44.00. Yet whe
n I priced it today the cost to us has more doubled to $95.00. With the
trouble I have been having lately I am starting to think Jabiru.
Barry West <barry@pgtc.com> wrote:Jimmy, I am surprised you are having t
his problem with the 912 UL. I have a 912 ULS and went through a lot of
problem with the shaking at start up and shut down of the engine. It w
as really violent. I sent the gearbox to Lockwood for them to tighten t
he sprag clutch and this greatly reduced the shaking. The 912 ULS tende
d to shake more than the other 912's and of course it is exagerated beca
use the carbs are further away from the center of the engine than in oth
er applications. I also bought rubber flanges from a motorcyle shop. Th
ey ordered them from a catlog. Remember, BMW used Bing carburettors - d
on't know if they still do. They were less than half the cost from Lock
wood. These things together solved the problem. About 200 hours now and
no more carburettors coming loose or tearing of the rubber flanges. I g
uess this is what others are calling aftermarket but I think they were e
xactly the same as Rotax supplies.----- Original Message ----- From: Jim
mie Blackwell To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 04, 200
6 12:13 PMSubject: Kitfox-List: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul
Wanted to check and find out if any of you are having or had trouble kee
ping the Bing carbs on the 912 UL. One of my carbs works part way out of
the rubber flange after the engine runs about 15 minutes and would fall
off were it not for the retaining springs. These are some of the things
I have done and noted: - My rubber flanges are the new type with the 8
mm spacer, part # 267 788. - Engine is running smooth, but checked for
carb balance anyway and they are well balanced. - After taking the ca
rb off I noted that the inside of the rubber flange has two places whe
re the rubber material is missing, about the size of a match head and
several other much smaller areas where rubber material is missing. - M
y thought was that perhaps the metal part of the carb that fits into the
rubber flange had a rough spot that rubbed on the rubber flange. Not
the case, the metal part of the carb that fits into the rubber flang
e is smooth, no burrs. - Both of my rubber flanges were put on new abou
t a year ago. At $87.00 apiece it seems to me that these rubber flanges
should last longer. Would appreciate any ideas from you folks. Jimmie
<html><P>Hi Guys,</P>
<P> This thread ran a month or two ago. I have a part number for "
aftermarket" flanges that are used on Sea Doo snowmobile engines. Mine h
ave been on for years and work fine. Cost? Less than $10 each!</P>
<P>Rex in Michigan<BR><BR>-- Jimmie Blackwell <jimmieb
lackwell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:<BR></P>
<DIV>Thank you for the information on BMW's. I think we all expect
to pay a premium to enjoy our hobby of flying, but in my opinion Rotax
is starting to gouge us to hard. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For example, the rubber flange for the bing carb connection is show
n in the latest Lockwood catalog as $44.00. Yet when I priced it t
oday the cost to us has more doubled to $95.00. With the trouble I
have been having lately I am starting to think Jabiru.<BR><BR><B><I>Bar
ry West <barry@pgtc.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jimmy, I am surprised you are having th
is problem with the 912 UL. I have a 912 ULS and went through a lo
t of problem with the shaking at start up and shut down of the engine.&n
bsp; It was really violent. I sent the gearbox to Lockwood for the
m to tighten the sprag clutch and this greatly reduced the shaking. 
; The 912 ULS tended to shake more than the other 912's and of course it
is exagerated because the carbs are further away from the center of the
engine than in other applications.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also bought rubber flanges from a mot
orcyle shop. They ordered them from a catlog. Remember, BMW
used Bing carburettors - don't know if they still do. They we
re less than half the cost from Lockwood.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>These things together solved the proble
m. About 200 hours now and no more carburettors coming loose or te
aring of the rubber flanges.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I guess this is what others are calling
aftermarket but I think they were exactly the same as Rotax supplies.</
FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MA
RGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">
<B>From:</B> <A title=jimmieblackwell@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:jim
mieblackwell@sbcglobal.net">Jimmie Blackwell</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=kitfox-list@matron
ics.com href="mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com">kitfox-list@matronics.
com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 04, 2006 12:
13 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Kitfox-List: Carburetor
Troubles on 912Ul</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Wanted to check and find out if any of you are having or had troubl
e keeping the Bing carbs on the 912 UL.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One of my carbs works part way out of the rubber flange after the e
ngine runs about 15 minutes and would fall off were it not for the retai
ning springs.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>These are some of the things I have done and noted:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- My rubber flanges are the new type with the 8mm spacer, par
t # 267 788.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Engine is running smooth, but checked for carb balance anyw
ay and they are well</DIV>
<DIV> balanced.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- After taking the carb off I noted that the inside of the ru
bber flange has</DIV>
<DIV> two places where the rubber material is missing, about
the size of a match head and </DIV>
<DIV> several other much smaller areas where rubber material
is missing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- My thought was that perhaps the metal part of the carb that
fits into the rubber flange</DIV>
<DIV> had a rough spot that rubbed on the rubber flange.&nbs
p; Not the case, the metal part of </DIV>
<DIV> the carb that fits into the rubber flange is smooth, n
o burrs.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Both of my rubber flanges were put on new about a year ago.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>At $87.00 apiece it seems to me that these rubber flanges should la
st longer. Would appreciate any ideas from you folks.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jimmie</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></html>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Survival at sea. WAS: Rotax 912 |
Now that's a good idea and you might happen to find a second use for
them but I don't know about the whole 300.
Rex.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash-Latest report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: David Estapa <davestapa@juno.com>
Witnesses (non-aviation types) are reporting that the engine went quiet
at about 200 feet and the pilot tried to turn back, and went straight in.
The airplane hit about even with the end of the runway and several
hundred feet to the left. Apparently there is a golf course close by but
don't know where it is in respect to the runway. The airplane was one of
the first customer built Vixens. The builder received the manual in
installments as it was being written. Had a 80 hp 912. The pilot was a
ground instructor for Delta, recently retired and was or has built a
Glasair. He had been flying for 25 years. I met him and his son soon
after he bought the airplane. I remembered the encounter because his 12
or 13 year old son knew far more about the Kitfox than I did. Rattled off
all the specs. They wanted me to show them how to fold the wings because
they had never folded them. I can't help but think of that young lad now.
I had watched the first flight of this airplane at McCollum (RYY) in Cobb
County, Georgia several years prior (when did the Vixen come out-around
94?). To my knowledge there are three Kitfoxes built in my little berg of
Woodstock, GA. (Atlanta suburb)Now 2 have been involved in fatal crashes
in less than a year. (The other was the IV on Christmas eve allegedly
doing low level aerobatics with 2 aboard out west). The third Kitfox is
mine, which was signed off by a DAR last week. (anybody know the number
for Allied Van Lines-I'm moving). Anyway for political reason (re: the
ruler of my house) I'll probably wait a few more days to move my bird to
the airport. I have had calls from everyone I know who knows about my
Kitfox-Have you heard...? Its sad, I've been involved in aviation for
about 10 years and know far too many that have succumbed to this hobby. I
have the words "FLY THE PLANE" in big letters in front of the pilots seat
on the front spar carry thru. I just hope and pray if I am subjected to
an emergency that I will abide by that. But you never know until you are
confronted. The Kitfox can be replaced-I can't.
C David Estapa
Woodstock, GA
S5TD N97DE (first flight soon)
> > Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on
> climb-out
> > and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
well if I remember my flight training correctly, they say if you have an
emergency on take off to fly straight ahead and Never try to turn back
especially when you don't have any altitude or in this case any airspeed
either .and it sounds like he had neither. it still wont bring him back but
it is something for the rest of us to try and remember. I myself have never
been in this situation except in training and I hope that i never will be
but just the same, You need to be very aware of what you can and cannot do,
I feel that the skystar Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if flown with
respect, just my two cents
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:52 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Marco's post reminds me of a post I recently sent to the Lancair list.
There has been a long thread having to with aircraft accident stastics.
Something about how to measure them - flight hour or passenger miles. The
argument involved whether general aviation is more or less safe and by how
much, than the scheduled air carriers and if so why. Lots of talk about
concern for passengers keeping ones mind on business etc. skill level,
training and, of course, a lot of posturing, pontificating and axe grinding.
Anyway my comment had to do with my airman physical that I took Tuesday and
a conversation I had with another pilot there for the same reason - but his
was a Class I while mine was the class III. I found we lived in neighboring
towns and I asked him if he had an airplane. He said no and went further to
say that he would not fly in a general aviation airplane. Then he
volunteered that his company - US Air, to his knowledge, loses about 3
pilots a year to general aviation accidents.
Now if this is a valid number and given US Air's published pilot population
of 3228, they lose just under one pilot per thousand per year. I guess the
way I read this, assuming my new friend's numbers are somewhat accurate, it
can be concluded that there is a problem here.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:40 PM
> Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on climb-out
> and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
.
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
..............One small thing. It's not a Skystar Kitfox anymore. Skysta
r (Skyscam) is bankrupt and left many Kitfox pilots/owners in debt. It's
just called a Kitfox now.
-- "eccles" <eccles@Chartermi.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
well if I remember my flight training correctly, they say if you have an
emergency on take off to fly straight ahead and Never try to turn back
especially when you don't have any altitude or in this case any airspeed
either .and it sounds like he had neither. it still wont bring him back
but
it is something for the rest of us to try and remember. I myself have ne
ver
been in this situation except in training and I hope that i never will b
e
but just the same, You need to be very aware of what you can and cannot
do,
I feel that the skystar Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if flown with
respect, just my two cents
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:52 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Marco's post reminds me of a post I recently sent to the Lancair list.
There has been a long thread having to with aircraft accident stastics.
Something about how to measure them - flight hour or passenger miles. T
he
argument involved whether general aviation is more or less safe and by h
ow
much, than the scheduled air carriers and if so why. Lots of talk about
concern for passengers keeping ones mind on business etc. skill level,
training and, of course, a lot of posturing, pontificating and axe grind
ing.
Anyway my comment had to do with my airman physical that I took Tuesday
and
a conversation I had with another pilot there for the same reason - but
his
was a Class I while mine was the class III. I found we lived in neighbo
ring
towns and I asked him if he had an airplane. He said no and went furthe
r to
say that he would not fly in a general aviation airplane. Then he
volunteered that his company - US Air, to his knowledge, loses about 3
pilots a year to general aviation accidents.
Now if this is a valid number and given US Air's published pilot populat
ion
of 3228, they lose just under one pilot per thousand per year. I guess
the
way I read this, assuming my new friend's numbers are somewhat accurate,
it
can be concluded that there is a problem here.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:40 PM
> Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on climb-
out
> and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
=2E
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html>..............One small thing. It's not a Skystar Kitfox anymore.
Skystar (Skyscam) is bankrupt and left many Kitfox pilots/owners in debt
. It's just called a Kitfox now. <BR><BR>-- "eccles" <eccle
s@Chartermi.net> wrote:<BR>--> Kitfox-List message&
nbsp;posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net><BR>
<BR>well if I remember my flight training&
nbsp;correctly, they say if you have an<BR
>emergency on take off to fly straight&nbs
p;ahead and Never try to turn back<BR>espe
cially when you don't have any altitude&nb
sp;or in this case any airspeed<BR>either
.and it sounds like he had neither. i
t still wont bring him back but<BR>it 
;is something for the rest of us to&n
bsp;try and remember. I myself have never<
BR>been in this situation except in traini
ng and I hope that i never will
be<BR>but just the same, You need to
be very aware of what you can and&nbs
p;cannot do,<BR>I feel that the skystar Ki
tfox is a very safe aircraft if flown
with<BR>respect, just my two 
;cents<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>[mailto:owner-kitfo
x-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
<BR>Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:52 PM<
BR><BR><BR>--> Kitfox-List message posted by:&nbs
p;"Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net><BR><BR>Marco's&nb
sp;post reminds me of a post I recent
ly sent to the Lancair list.<BR>There has&
nbsp;been a long thread having to with&nbs
p;aircraft accident stastics.<BR>Something about how
to measure them - flight hour or&nbs
p;passenger miles. The<BR>argument involved wh
ether general aviation is more or less&nbs
p;safe and by how<BR>much, than the schedu
led air carriers and if so why.  
;Lots of talk about<BR>concern for passengers&n
bsp;keeping ones mind on business etc. ski
ll level,<BR>training and, of course, a lo
t of posturing, pontificating and axe grin
ding.<BR><BR>Anyway my comment had to do w
ith my airman physical that I took Tu
esday and<BR>a conversation I had with ano
ther pilot there for the same reason
- but his<BR>was a Class I while mine
was the class III. I found we&
nbsp;lived in neighboring<BR>towns and I asked&
nbsp;him if he had an airplane. He&n
bsp;said no and went further to<BR>say tha
t he would not fly in a general
aviation airplane. Then he<BR>volunteered that
his company - US Air, to his kn
owledge, loses about 3<BR>pilots a year to
general aviation accidents.<BR><BR>Now if this
is a valid number and given US
Air's published pilot population<BR>of 3228, th
ey lose just under one pilot per thou
sand per year. I guess the<BR>way I&
nbsp;read this, assuming my new friend's n
umbers are somewhat accurate, it<BR>can be 
;concluded that there is a problem here.<B
R><BR>Lowell<BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>Sent:&nbs
p;Friday, August 04, 2006 12:40 PM<BR><BR><BR>&
gt; Latest report suggests pilot (an airli
ne retiree) lost power on climb-out<BR>>&nbs
p;and tried to turn 180 degrees to th
e runway he'd just left.<BR>.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR
========================
========================
nbsp;Use the Matronics List Features Navigator&
Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse,&nb
sp; &nb
sp; &nb
sp; &nb
========================
out the All New Matronics Email List
p; &nbs
p; &nbs
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Message 45
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David,
"We learn from others mistakes".........I realize it sounds pretty cold and callous
right now, but its our way of dealing with these incidents, and it works.
Your little signage on the crossover will get you through, as well as your wits
and training.........fly the plane. Good motto!
We all fly with some second thoughts, but that is exactly what keeps most of
us out of trouble. Knock on wood...........
Sid
----------------------------
David Estapa <> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: David Estapa
Witnesses (non-aviation types) are reporting that the engine went quiet
at about 200 feet and the pilot tried to turn back, and went straight in.
The airplane hit about even with the end of the runway and several
hundred feet to the left. Apparently there is a golf course close by but
don't know where it is in respect to the runway. The airplane was one of
the first customer built Vixens. The builder received the manual in
installments as it was being written. Had a 80 hp 912. The pilot was a
ground instructor for Delta, recently retired and was or has built a
Glasair. He had been flying for 25 years. I met him and his son soon
after he bought the airplane. I remembered the encounter because his 12
or 13 year old son knew far more about the Kitfox than I did. Rattled off
all the specs. They wanted me to show them how to fold the wings because
they had never folded them. I can't help but think of that young lad now.
I had watched the first flight of this airplane at McCollum (RYY) in Cobb
County, Georgia several years prior (when did the Vixen come out-around
94?). To my knowledge there are three Kitfoxes built in my little berg of
Woodstock, GA. (Atlanta suburb)Now 2 have been involved in fatal crashes
in less than a year. (The other was the IV on Christmas eve allegedly
doing low level aerobatics with 2 aboard out west). The third Kitfox is
mine, which was signed off by a DAR last week. (anybody know the number
for Allied Van Lines-I'm moving). Anyway for political reason (re: the
ruler of my house) I'll probably wait a few more days to move my bird to
the airport. I have had calls from everyone I know who knows about my
Kitfox-Have you heard...? Its sad, I've been involved in aviation for
about 10 years and know far too many that have succumbed to this hobby. I
have the words "FLY THE PLANE" in big letters in front of the pilots seat
on the front spar carry thru. I just hope and pray if I am subjected to
an emergency that I will abide by that. But you never know until you are
confronted. The Kitfox can be replaced-I can't.
C David Estapa
Woodstock, GA
S5TD N97DE (first flight soon)
> > Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on
> climb-out
> > and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Why can't we all just get along?"
---------------------------------
Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo!
Groups.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Michigan Kitfoxers |
Richard,
Say hi to Lee Sherwitz out at the airport and have fun at your Military flyin
this weekend! Met two gentlmen from Benton Harbor while walking along Kitfox
row in Oshkosh..........both older gentlemen, one using an electric cart and
the other, his friend, who is restoring a rather large seaplane.........nice people!
Get that one of yours up and flying and come north to visit.
Sid
Alpena
just north of Deke in Mikado
------------------------------------------------
Richard Rabbers <rira1950@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers"
> Michigan Kitfoxers
Seems like a good 'location / type' contact list could benefit all on (our) Matronics
list. The existing member list includes many voids and is not very well
suited for sorting. Perhaps someday the structure could be improved. (not to
minimize the great work that they do)
It seems to me that those involved on this list might all welcome the chance to
make contact with others no matter where they may find themselves. (when traveling,
on lay-overs...etc) It might be tuff to avoid keeping a list that included
contact info/email addresses from being captured by 'the outside' creating
junk mail or other?
Meantime I'm glad to be part of this new effort and assume good will come.
Richard Rabbers
627 W Main Street
Benton Harbor, MI 49022
(269) 925-1901
rira1950@yahoo.com
Kitfox Model 1 - s/n 168
(purchased from 2nd owner - slowly being restored)
Rotax 618, Powerfin prop
Full Lotus floats
- I'm enjoying this list very much. It's great to be able to become familar with
Kitfox prior to flight...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52307#52307
"Why can't we all just get along?"
---------------------------------
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
sorry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rexster
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 7:58 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash
..............One small thing. It's not a Skystar Kitfox anymore. Skystar
(Skyscam) is bankrupt and left many Kitfox pilots/owners in debt. It's just
called a Kitfox now.
-- "eccles" <eccles@Chartermi.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
well if I remember my flight training correctly, they say if you have an
emergency on take off to fly straight ahead and Never try to turn back
especially when you don't have any altitude or in this case any airspeed
either .and it sounds like he had neither. it still wont bring him back
but
it is something for the rest of us to try and remember. I myself have
never
been in this situation except in training and I hope that i never will be
but just the same, You need to be very aware of what you can and cannot
do,
I feel that the skystar Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if flown with
respect, just my two cents
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:52 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Marco's post reminds me of a post I recently sent to the Lancair list.
There has been a long thread having to with aircraft accident stastics.
Something about how to measure them - flight hour or passenger miles. The
argument involved whether general aviation is more or less safe and by how
much, than the scheduled air carriers and if so why. Lots of talk about
concern for passengers keeping ones mind on business etc. skill level,
training and, of course, a lot of posturing, pontificating and axe
grinding.
Anyway my comment had to do with my airman physical that I took Tuesday
and
a conversation I had with another pilot there for the same reason - but
his
was a Class I while mine was the class III. I found we lived in
neighboring
towns and I asked him if he had an airplane. He said no and went further
to
say that he would not fly in a general aviation airplane. Then he
volunteered that his company - US Air, to his knowledge, loses about 3
pilots a year to general aviation accidents.
Now if this is a valid number and given US Air's published pilot
population
of 3228, they lose just under one pilot per thousand per year. I guess
the
way I read this, assuming my new friend's numbers are somewhat accurate,
it
can be concluded that there is a problem here.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:40 PM
> Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on
climb-out
> and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
.
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
When I bought my series V the company was owned by Phil Reed and they did
everything that they could to make sure that i was completely satisfied with
my aircraft , I really don't know what happened when Downs took over but i
will support the new owners if there is ever anything I need.
[eccles]
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rexster
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 7:58 PM
..............One small thing. It's not a Skystar Kitfox anymore. Skystar
(Skyscam) is bankrupt and left many Kitfox pilots/owners in debt. It's just
called a Kitfox now.
-- "eccles" <eccles@Chartermi.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
well if I remember my flight training correctly, they say if you have an
emergency on take off to fly straight ahead and Never try to turn back
especially when you don't have any altitude or in this case any airspeed
either .and it sounds like he had neither. it still wont bring him back
but
it is something for the rest of us to try and remember. I myself have
never
been in this situation except in training and I hope that i never will be
but just the same, You need to be very aware of what you can and cannot
do,
I feel that the skystar Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if flown with
respect, just my two cents
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:52 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Marco's post reminds me of a post I recently sent to the Lancair list.
There has been a long thread having to with aircraft accident stastics.
Something about how to measure them - flight hour or passenger miles. The
argument involved whether general aviation is more or less safe and by how
much, than the scheduled air carriers and if so why. Lots of talk about
concern for passengers keeping ones mind on business etc. skill level,
training and, of course, a lot of posturing, pontificating and axe
grinding.
Anyway my comment had to do with my airman physical that I took Tuesday
and
a conversation I had with another pilot there for the same reason - but
his
was a Class I while mine was the class III. I found we lived in
neighboring
towns and I asked him if he had an airplane. He said no and went further
to
say that he would not fly in a general aviation airplane. Then he
volunteered that his company - US Air, to his knowledge, loses about 3
pilots a year to general aviation accidents.
Now if this is a valid number and given US Air's published pilot
population
of 3228, they lose just under one pilot per thousand per year. I guess
the
way I read this, assuming my new friend's numbers are somewhat accurate,
it
can be concluded that there is a problem here.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:40 PM
> Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on
climb-out
> and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
.
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
Personally I took a buddy up with me to a couple thousand feet and practiced
engine out turn-arounds. Power on, pull it into a steep climb till it slows
to best climb, hand off the throttle, and had him pull the power abruptly.
Then he noted how much altitude it took me to do a 180. I know if I'm at
least 500ft I'm safe to do a 180 at nearly gross in a IV...
Regards,
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 2:11 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill"
If you want to find out about take off accidents. Go to altitude, set up
a steep take off climb, pull back the power (don't touch any thing and see
what happens) I think you might be suprised.
If you lose power on take off with a steep deck angle and turn back to the
airport before letting the nose of the airplane drop below the horiz,. you
most likely will spin. take some spin training, I taught them even though
it wasn't required.
Clint
Message 50
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| Subject: | Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul |
I safety wired the top of my carbs long ago. Drilled a small hole in the
web on the carb and put a few (slack) loops of wire around it and the
balance tube fitting on both sides just in case. However, with that said,
the carbs won't come out of the stiffer aftermarket sockets even without the
wire...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie Blackwell
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 2:03 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Carburetor Troubles on 912Ul
They are the stiffer ones and I think are impregnated with kevlar.
I did just discover one possible cause. My carb has two retaining
springs, one on each side. They do not have the spring on top of the carb
that attaches to the balancing tube. Do you have this top spring?
flier <FLIER@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Message 51
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--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash-Latest report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Yep the fatal turn back. I am so thankful for those words I read in Rod
Macados books "fly the plane; fly the plane; fly the plane". They have
served me well several times. In the last event the fox was totaled but
I was fortunate to have made the decision not to turn back. It was a
real temptation and with the free wheeling prop major drag and increased
sink beyond any dead stick I had ever done. Great list. Lets keep each
other going. I too feel for his family and friends. My we never have to
know personally those that have paid the ultimate price. I hope we can
all remember we are human and subject to poor judgment, fatal
circumstances and chains of events that can capture us.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Estapa
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:19 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: David Estapa <davestapa@juno.com>
Witnesses (non-aviation types) are reporting that the engine went quiet
at about 200 feet and the pilot tried to turn back, and went straight
in...snip
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hey Rexter,
Are you saying the kit I ordered from Dan Denney and that was delivered by
Skystar has had a name change? I think since Skystar delivered the kit,
I'll still call it a Skystar Kitfox Model IV.
Thanks,
Lowell
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:57 PM
..............One small thing. It's not a Skystar Kitfox anymore. Skystar
(Skyscam) is bankrupt and left many Kitfox pilots/owners in debt. It's just
called a Kitfox now.
-- "eccles" <eccles@Chartermi.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
well if I remember my flight training correctly, they say if you have an
emergency on take off to fly straight ahead and Never try to turn back
especially when you don't have any altitude or in this case any airspeed
either .and it sounds like he had neither. it still wont bring him back but
it is something for the rest of us to try and remember. I myself have never
been in this situation except in training and I hope that i never will be
but just the same, You need to be very aware of what you can and cannot do,
I feel that the skystar Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if flown with
respect, just my two cents
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:52 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Marco's post reminds me of a post I recently sent to the Lancair list.
There has been a long thread having to with aircraft accident stastics.
Something about how to measure them - flight hour or passenger miles. The
argument involved whether general aviation is more or less safe and by how
much, than the scheduled air carriers and if so why. Lots of talk about
concern for passengers keeping ones mind on business etc. skill level,
training and, of course, a lot of posturing, pontificating and axe grinding.
Anyway my comment had to do with my airman physical that I took Tuesday and
a conversation I had with another pilot there for the same reason - but his
was a Class I while mine was the class III. I found we lived in neighboring
towns and I asked him if he had an airplane. He said no and went further to
say that he would not fly in a general aviation airplane. Then he
volunteered that his company - US Air, to his knowledge, loses about 3
pilots a year to general aviation accidents.
Now if this is a valid number and given US Air's published pilot population
of 3228, they lose just under one pilot per thousand per year. I guess the
way I read this, assuming my new friend's numbers are somewhat accurate, it
can be concluded that there is a problem here.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:40 PM
> Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on climb-out
> and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
.
===================================
===================================
===================================
===================================
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
I have to agree with Lowell. The name of the plane remains, even if the
company is out of business. I once owned a DeSoto Powermaster. Since then
Chrysler took over the line, but if you see one on the street, it is still
called a DeSoto.
So I think it is still a Skystar Vixen.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 7:24 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hey Rexter,
Are you saying the kit I ordered from Dan Denney and that was delivered by
Skystar has had a name change? I think since Skystar delivered the kit,
I'll still call it a Skystar Kitfox Model IV.
Thanks,
Lowell
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:57 PM
..............One small thing. It's not a Skystar Kitfox anymore. Skystar
(Skyscam) is bankrupt and left many Kitfox pilots/owners in debt. It's just
called a Kitfox now.
-- "eccles" <eccles@Chartermi.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
well if I remember my flight training correctly, they say if you have an
emergency on take off to fly straight ahead and Never try to turn back
especially when you don't have any altitude or in this case any airspeed
either .and it sounds like he had neither. it still wont bring him back but
it is something for the rest of us to try and remember. I myself have never
been in this situation except in training and I hope that i never will be
but just the same, You need to be very aware of what you can and cannot do,
I feel that the skystar Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if flown with
respect, just my two cents
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:52 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Marco's post reminds me of a post I recently sent to the Lancair list.
There has been a long thread having to with aircraft accident stastics.
Something about how to measure them - flight hour or passenger miles. The
argument involved whether general aviation is more or less safe and by how
much, than the scheduled air carriers and if so why. Lots of talk about
concern for passengers keeping ones mind on business etc. skill level,
training and, of course, a lot of posturing, pontificating and axe grinding.
Anyway my comment had to do with my airman physical that I took Tuesday and
a conversation I had with another pilot there for the same reason - but his
was a Class I while mine was the class III. I found we lived in neighboring
towns and I asked him if he had an airplane. He said no and went further to
say that he would not fly in a general aviation airplane. Then he
volunteered that his company - US Air, to his knowledge, loses about 3
pilots a year to general aviation accidents.
Now if this is a valid number and given US Air's published pilot population
of 3228, they lose just under one pilot per thousand per year. I guess the
way I read this, assuming my new friend's numbers are somewhat accurate, it
can be concluded that there is a problem here.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:40 PM
> Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on climb-out
> and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
.
===================================
===================================
===================================
===================================
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
Lowell,
Oh, I don't know the details of that. I ordered from Dan Denney too an
d it was called Denny Aerocraft, I think. The McBeans could give you the
official answer to your question, but to most of us, "Skystar" is not s
omething we want to associate with. MANY people paid for parts (includin
g complete engines) and they never received them from Skystar. Lots of e
mpty promises over the last few years as they were going bankrupt. I bel
ieve the company is now called Kitfox LLC, but check with John and Debra
for sure. From what I saw and heard at Oshkosh, the company is headed i
n the right direction. Everybody I spoke with seemed impressed and happy
with them. I hope they do well and I intend to buy a model 7 within two
years. I'll build that and then sell my model 3.
Cheers,
Rex Phelps in Michigan
-- "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hey Rexter,
Are you saying the kit I ordered from Dan Denney and that was delivered
by
Skystar has had a name change? I think since Skystar delivered the kit,
I'll still call it a Skystar Kitfox Model IV.
Thanks,
Lowell
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:57 PM
=2E.............One small thing. It's not a Skystar Kitfox anymore. Skys
tar
(Skyscam) is bankrupt and left many Kitfox pilots/owners in debt. It's j
ust
called a Kitfox now.
-- "eccles" <eccles@Chartermi.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net>
well if I remember my flight training correctly, they say if you have an
emergency on take off to fly straight ahead and Never try to turn back
especially when you don't have any altitude or in this case any airspeed
either .and it sounds like he had neither. it still wont bring him back
but
it is something for the rest of us to try and remember. I myself have ne
ver
been in this situation except in training and I hope that i never will b
e
but just the same, You need to be very aware of what you can and cannot
do,
I feel that the skystar Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if flown with
respect, just my two cents
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:52 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Marco's post reminds me of a post I recently sent to the Lancair list.
There has been a long thread having to with aircraft accident stastics.
Something about how to measure them - flight hour or passenger miles. T
he
argument involved whether general aviation is more or less safe and by h
ow
much, than the scheduled air carriers and if so why. Lots of talk about
concern for passengers keeping ones mind on business etc. skill level,
training and, of course, a lot of posturing, pontificating and axe grind
ing.
Anyway my comment had to do with my airman physical that I took Tuesday
and
a conversation I had with another pilot there for the same reason - but
his
was a Class I while mine was the class III. I found we lived in neighbo
ring
towns and I asked him if he had an airplane. He said no and went furthe
r to
say that he would not fly in a general aviation airplane. Then he
volunteered that his company - US Air, to his knowledge, loses about 3
pilots a year to general aviation accidents.
Now if this is a valid number and given US Air's published pilot populat
ion
of 3228, they lose just under one pilot per thousand per year. I guess
the
way I read this, assuming my new friend's numbers are somewhat accurate,
it
can be concluded that there is a problem here.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:40 PM
> Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on climb-
out
> and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left.
=2E
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========================
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========================
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<html><P>Lowell,</P>
<P> Oh, I don't know the details of that. I ordered from Dan Denne
y too and it was called Denny Aerocraft, I think. The McBeans could give
you the official answer to your question, but to most of us, "Skystar"
is not something we want to associate with. MANY people paid for parts (
including complete engines) and they never received them from Skyst
ar. Lots of empty promises over the last few years as they were going ba
nkrupt. I believe the company is now called Kitfox LLC, but check with J
ohn and Debra for sure. From what I saw and heard at Oshkosh, the compan
y is headed in the right direction. Everybody I spoke with seemed impres
sed and happy with them. I hope they do well and I intend to buy a model
7 within two years. I'll build that and then sell my model 3.</P>
<P>Cheers,</P>
<P>Rex Phelps in Michigan</P>
<P> </P>
<P><BR>-- "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> 
;wrote:<BR>--> Kitfox-List message posted by:&nbs
p;"Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net><BR><BR>Hey R
exter,<BR><BR>Are you saying the kit I ord
ered from Dan Denney and that was del
ivered by <BR>Skystar has had a name
change? I think since Skystar delivered&n
bsp;the kit, <BR>I'll still call it a 
;Skystar Kitfox Model IV.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Lowell<BR
><BR>Do Not Archive<BR>----- Original Message -
---- <BR>Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:5
7 PM<BR><BR><BR>..............One small thing. It's&
nbsp;not a Skystar Kitfox anymore. Skystar 
;<BR>(Skyscam) is bankrupt and left many K
itfox pilots/owners in debt. It's just <BR
>called a Kitfox now.<BR><BR>-- "eccles" <ec
cles@Chartermi.net> wrote:<BR>--> Kitfox-List messa
ge posted by: "eccles" <eccles@chartermi.net><
BR><BR>well if I remember my flight traini
ng correctly, they say if you have an
<BR>emergency on take off to fly straight&
nbsp;ahead and Never try to turn back<BR>e
specially when you don't have any altitude
or in this case any airspeed<BR>either&nb
sp;.and it sounds like he had neither.&nbs
p;it still wont bring him back but<BR>it&n
bsp;is something for the rest of us t
o try and remember. I myself have nev
er<BR>been in this situation except in tra
ining and I hope that i never will&nb
sp;be<BR>but just the same, You need to&nb
sp;be very aware of what you can and&
nbsp;cannot do,<BR>I feel that the skystar 
;Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if fl
own with<BR>respect, just my two&n
bsp;cents<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>[mailto:owner-ki
tfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell F
itt<BR>Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:52
PM<BR><BR><BR>--> Kitfox-List message posted by:&
nbsp;"Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net><BR><BR>Marco's
post reminds me of a post I rec
ently sent to the Lancair list.<BR>There h
as been a long thread having to with&
nbsp;aircraft accident stastics.<BR>Something about
how to measure them - flight hour or&
nbsp;passenger miles. The<BR>argument involved 
;whether general aviation is more or less&
nbsp;safe and by how<BR>much, than the sch
eduled air carriers and if so why. &n
bsp;Lots of talk about<BR>concern for passenger
s keeping ones mind on business etc.
skill level,<BR>training and, of course, a 
;lot of posturing, pontificating and axe g
rinding.<BR><BR>Anyway my comment had to do&nbs
p;with my airman physical that I took 
;Tuesday and<BR>a conversation I had with
another pilot there for the same reason&nb
sp;- but his<BR>was a Class I while m
ine was the class III. I found
we lived in neighboring<BR>towns and I ask
ed him if he had an airplane. H
e said no and went further to<BR>say
that he would not fly in a general&nb
sp;aviation airplane. Then he<BR>volunteered t
hat his company - US Air, to his 
;knowledge, loses about 3<BR>pilots a year 
;to general aviation accidents.<BR><BR>Now if t
his is a valid number and given US&nb
sp;Air's published pilot population<BR>of 3228, 
;they lose just under one pilot per t
housand per year. I guess the<BR>way 
;I read this, assuming my new friend's&nbs
p;numbers are somewhat accurate, it<BR>can be&n
bsp;concluded that there is a problem here
.<BR><BR>Lowell<BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>Sent:&
nbsp;Friday, August 04, 2006 12:40 PM<BR><BR><B
R>> Latest report suggests pilot (an ai
rline retiree) lost power on climb-out<BR>>&
nbsp;and tried to turn 180 degrees to 
;the runway he'd just left.<BR>.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>========
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Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Michigan Kitfoxers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
> Say hi to Lee Sherwitz out at the airport ...... and have fun at your Military
flyin this weekend! ......Get that one of yours up and flying and come north
to visit.
Hello Sid,
- What does Lee do at BEH?
- A couple flights today... I'll be working on a project on the north (airport)
side of my place this weekend. I expect some good sights.
- Many projects underway... sure looking forward to getting in the air.
Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52490#52490
Message 57
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| Subject: | Motorcycle grip Throttle |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" <kmamjones@comcast.net>
Cut Schrader's comment about a motorcycle grip throttle caught my attention.
I'm building an S7 taildragger. I have a bad left leg from polio as a
child - not enough strength for left rudder. I used to fly an RV-4. Sold it
to build the Kitfox - no need for speed anymore. I had left rudder and left
brake hand controls on the RV-4. On landings I cut the power to idle when
the field was made. I needed the left hand for rudder (particularly on
crosswinds) and right for the stick. I never did wheel landings - a bit
too cautious I guess. I don't know much about motorcycles. Could a
motorcycle grip throttle be installed on the S7 stick, but still have a
regular throttle for others would might fly the plane? I'm using a Rotax
912S, which, of course, has two carbs. Sure, I could probably fly the S7
like the RV-4, but I would much rather have use of the throttle on the
landing and roll-out - more options, you know. I hadn't thought about the
motorcycle grip before. Is it even feasible to run two throttle cables to
two carbs? How could the motorcycle throttle be locked to maintain cruise
RPM? Any ideas would be appreciated. If this sounds a little dumb, have some
compassion - I'm a good accountant - not an engineer.
Ken Jones
Message 58
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| Subject: | (off-topic) temperature. WAS Passenger safety - Michel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Aug 4, 2006, at 8:52 PM, John Marzulli wrote:
> A water temp of 22C?
Climate is funny, John. In Belgium, where I was born and where the
tidal difference is nearly 5 meters, the sea water stays always cool
from its circulation. But in Norway, we have practically no tide, the
water sedates and, that far north, nearly 20 hours of sunlight at
midsummer. Hence the warm temperature in the small sandy coves we have
as beaches.
Seattle is, of course, under the influence of a cold Pacific current,
as opposed to the blessed Gulf Stream we have here.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 59
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| Subject: | (off-topic) Hurricanes WAS Passenger safety - Michel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Aug 4, 2006, at 9:43 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
> Right now, Puerto Rico is in the hurricane season, so most of the light
> planes are stored in a garage.
Yes, I know. Time to immigrate to Norway, hombre! :-)
I have a friend in West Palm Beach who is retired and when the
hurricane season is at its worse, he gets in his mobile home, called
Mother Earth, and moves north.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
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