Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:01 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (kurt schrader)
2. 01:05 AM - NOTE: Example of reduced file (Michel Verheughe)
3. 07:20 AM - Re: series V C.G and weight limits (Bob Unternaehrer)
4. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: Slips and all the rest. (Fox5flyer)
5. 08:34 AM - Re: series V C.G and weight limits (phil@lakercustom.com)
6. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: Series 5 Spare Parts (John King)
7. 09:00 AM - Question to the list (Grant Bright)
8. 09:05 AM - Re: SV: Survival at sea. (John King)
9. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Slips and all the rest. (Randy Daughenbaugh)
10. 09:25 AM - Re: Question to the list (Andrew Matthaey)
11. 09:33 AM - Re: series V C.G and weight limits (Randy Daughenbaugh)
12. 09:36 AM - Fuel caution (Larry Martin)
13. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash (Lowell Fitt)
14. 10:05 AM - Re: Slips and all the rest. (Michael Gibbs)
15. 10:11 AM - Digest Anomalies (Michael Gibbs)
16. 10:26 AM - Re: Question to the list (Jimmie Blackwell)
17. 10:52 AM - 912ULS - Oil in Exhaust (John Banes)
18. 11:02 AM - Re: series V C.G and weight limits (Lowell Fitt)
19. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Flaps. (Fox5flyer)
20. 12:02 PM - Slips & Skids again (Clint Bazzill)
21. 12:51 PM - Re: Slips & Skids again (Barry West)
22. 01:43 PM - Re: Slips & Skids again (Rexster)
23. 02:38 PM - Re: Slips & Skids again (Barry West)
24. 02:38 PM - Tach Wires (Brett Walmsley)
25. 04:27 PM - Re: series V C.G and weight limits (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
26. 04:49 PM - New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... (Matt Dralle)
27. 05:29 PM - Re: series V C.G and weight limits (John Anderson)
28. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: Slips and all the rest. (Herbert R Gottelt)
29. 05:57 PM - Re: Slips & Skids again (Les Chambers)
30. 06:27 PM - Re: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba. New question (Cudnohufsky's)
31. 07:39 PM - Re: Tach Wires (Lowell Fitt)
32. 07:40 PM - Re: 912ULS - Oil in Exhaust (david yeamans)
33. 08:30 PM - Re: Question to the list (Andy Fultz)
34. 08:53 PM - Re: Question to the list (Lowell Fitt)
35. 09:12 PM - First flight 541KF (ron schick)
36. 11:29 PM - Crash (Michael Laundy)
37. 11:50 PM - Re: New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... (Michel Verheughe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I'll back this up.
Before I tried to fly my Fox I decided to recheck out
in a C-150 followed by taildraggers. I hadn't flown GA
for 12 years. At that I only had maybe 160 HRS total
in small planes vs some 12,000 hrs in bigger stuff.
The last GA I was checked out in 12 years earlier was
a 210, but after 20 years military flying, I greased
the first 3 landings and they wanted me to become the
club instructor. I expected it would still be easy.
12 years later of only "heavy" transport flying and I
couldn't fly a C-150 worth beans. It was a shock. I
was awful and could barely get it to the runway, but
the instructor said I was better than most airline
pilots on the first flight. Glad I decidced to let my
ego go and practice. Paid the price for 15-20 hrs of
dual and then still was cautious with my plane.
My closest friend built a 2/3rds scale Jenny from
scratch. Beautiful too. He did not practice anything
more than "crow hops" before transitioning from a
300,000 LB DC-8 to his 60 HP "kite". Crashed into a
lake on the first flight. At 300 feet after takeoff
he reduced to "climb power" just like on the 8. The
plane stopped! Spun! Splash! He survived. He was
more shocked then I was on that first C-150 flight fer
sure.
Don't think you can. Know you can. If you don't
know, don't go. This is supposed to be fun.
Kurt S.
--- 2thesky <biggerspurs@hotmail.com> wrote:
> MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net wrote:
> > I wouldn't lose any sleep over it Lowell. The
> numbers you heard provide far too little information
> to draw any conclusions from. It could simply mean
> that when you drive the heavy iron for a living you
> forget how to fly a real airplane...........
__________________________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | NOTE: Example of reduced file |
On Aug 6, 2006, at 2:28 AM, AMuller589@aol.com wrote:
> I attached the picture describing what I tried to say.<skid.bmp>
Yes but it was 8 Mb and that is not acceptable for the list. Next time,
please let me help you with the graphic. Here is an example: I have
reduced the size of your file to something that is still readable and I
have changed the format from BMP to GIF. As a result, what was 8 Mb is
now 108 Kb, also 74 times smaller.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: series V C.G and weight limits |
I guess the new series 7 airplanes that will be sold will have the 1320
GW that sport pilot allows according to the literature being handed out
at OSH with a 1550 GVW option, which I think John said is a different
landing gear being the main or only difference. Their literature shows
EW of 750 lbs. which is likely very optimistic, since most Model IV's
come out in or above that area, and if you actually come out around 900
lbs. which some have suggested you would only have slightly over 400
lbs. for fuel and people, or with full tanks of 27 gal, would make it a
single place airplane for most of us and a max pilot weight of 258 lbs.
One of the many "loop holes" I guess of the Sport Pilot thing. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMuller589@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: series V C.G and weight limits
I tried to attach a Attach a copy of a factory weight and balance
cleaned up of extraneous comments regarding other than un-swept wing,
non-series V etc data. The series V comes in forward swept one degree or
non swept wing. THE MAX GROSS WEIGHT RECOMMENDED IS 1550 LBS BUT YOU CAN
CERTIFICATE ANY MAX WEIGHT YOU DESIRE. The FAA inspectors recommend you
use whatever you think your estimated max useful weight will be so you
don't exceed it in use for insurance and accident purposes..The floor
and bag are very large but you can also make the baggage compartment any
shape you want and many people put in a long thin-wall pvc tube for skis
and fishing poles. Its up to you to keep the c.g. in limits. The factory
says the MGW is 1550 lbs , Mean Aerodynamic Center 51.1 in, forward cgl
imit 9.96 in, rearward cg limit 14.75 in. The cg limits are absolute and
must be complied there is no discretion here, only in the max gross
weight should you use other than factory limits and I don't recommend
that.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
Jay is correct. When Matt Dralle, the host for this list recently
agreed to allow attachments he asked us members to keep our attachments
relevant, necessary, and most of all, less than 200kb in size. We are
definitely in a world of DSLs, but there are still many people who live
in rural areas and don't have access to anything other than dialup
modems. So, before you hit that send button, consider what you are
sending and if you can't make it a reasonable size just either put it on
a site where it can be viewed by clicking a link or send it directly to
those who advise you they want to see it.
Microsoft has small software called Image Resizer that is free, small
download, and simple to use just for this purpose. I can take a 1meg
photo file and with just a couple mouse clicks resize it to 100kb for
email with very little discernible difference in resolution. A search
on the Microsoft site will find it easily.
Thanks to all of you for your cooperation.
Deke Morisse
List Administrator
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Carter
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Slips and all the rest.
Forty minutes to download the two messages with attachments. This will
not work for me. I will have to leave the list if this continues. I
know, it's my problem. If the list is going to operate this way, ok. I
just cannot be included.
Jay C.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMuller589@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Slips and all the rest.
I attached the picture describing what I tried to say.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: series V C.G and weight limits |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: phil@lakercustom.com
I own and have flown a Vixen for 1500 hours. It weighs 755 pounds
on EAA's "certified" scales. Tri gear, 1550 Grove gear, Clevelands.
I was very carefull about weight from the first hour of build. I
am sure a 750 pound Kitfox Super Sport will be acheivable, and am
betting the business on it. The demonstrator fuselage and weldments
are going to the powder coater now, I'll keep you all posted. The
Super Sport 1550 option is a slightly heavier gear.
Thanks for the support shown us at Oshkosh!
Phil Laker
> I guess the new series 7 airplanes that will be sold will have the 1320 GW
> that sport pilot allows according to the literature being handed out at
> OSH with a 1550 GVW option, which I think John said is a different landing
> gear being the main or only difference. Their literature shows EW of 750
> lbs. which is likely very optimistic, since most Model IV's come out in or
> above that area, and if you actually come out around 900 lbs. which some
> have suggested you would only have slightly over 400 lbs. for fuel and
> people, or with full tanks of 27 gal, would make it a single place
> airplane for most of us and a max pilot weight of 258 lbs. One of the many
> "loop holes" I guess of the Sport Pilot thing. Bob U.
> ----- Original Message -----
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Series 5 Spare Parts |
Spudnuts,
I have it on my calendar. Do not archive.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
spudnuts wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "spudnuts" <martan@cstone.net>
>
>That is good news. I wrote them, auto reply says they are on airventure vacation
till tomorrow. Will you be at the Louisa airshow this year? Pls bring your
fox down.
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Question to the list |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Grant Bright" <gbright@bellsouth.net>
I don't think I have read anyone mentioning Ham Radio.
Are any of you Fox fliers also ham radio ops? If so, it
would be great to meet up and have a round-table.
If not, there is Skpe which is free and allows "conference
calls."
Skype can be found at http://www.skype.com With a $10
microphone and $10 speakers, it works well...but not as much
fun as ham radio.
Cheers,
Grant
Series 5 Vixen
912UL
N21VX
W4OJC
Atlanta, Georgia
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Survival at sea. |
Michel,
My reference was just a few years ago when an ultralight flew from
South America up the Caribbean Islands to the U.S.A.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Michel Verheughe wrote:
>>From: John King [kingjohne@adelphia.net]
>>Use lots of ping pong balls. They add very little weight and can be stuffed
in a lot of small places.
>>
>>
>
>You know, John, I am old and my memory is failing me, but I am sure I read, many,
many years ago, about ping pong balls in aircraft wings. Was it in British
aircraft during WWII? When they landed on the makeshift runway, across the flat
land leading to the rock of Gibraltar? Or am I mixing everything? But I am
sure I read about ping pong balls earlier.
>One thing is for sure, it doesn't have to be resistant to high pressure. When
I e.g. remove the sensor of the log (speedometer) of my sailboat, at the bottom
of the keel, there is hardly any pressure and I can hold it with my hand. You
have to go down to 10 meters to double the surface pressure (2 atmospheres).
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>do not archive
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
Clint,
Thanks for staying with this. I think I finally understand what you are
saying.
In a slip (forward or slide slip), the fuselage is masking the high wing.
So if that wing stalls it will move toward leveling the wing. In a skid the
masked wing is already low so when it drops you have less to work with.
I gotta go fly now!
Randy - I like slips too!
.
_____
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 6:03 PM
I will agree that you can spin from a slip but. The origional comments were
on stall spin accidents resulting in serious injury, but most likely death.
When slipping to lose altitude which is near the ground and in the pattern
you have a low wing. As the FAA AIRPLANE FLYING HANDBOOK says
"If this stall occurs while the airplane is in a slipping or skidding turn,
this can result in a spin entry and rotation in the direction that the
rudder is being applied, regardless of which wingtip is raised."
This tells me that If I have a steep wing down attitude in a slip to a
landing the lower wing will have to go over the top as you are applying top
rudder. This would get your attention if it could happen.
Quote from Stalls Spins and Safety by Sammy Mason pp 43.
"SLIPPING AWAY THE STALL
One of the most difficult maneuvers from which to enter a stall or spin is
during a slip, particulrly a severe slip. Not that a stall cannot be
entered if there is enough elevator authority, it most certainly can. But
during a true wing-down slip, stalling is more difficult."
This is my point. Wing down slips for landings are pretty safe. Clint
_____
REGARDINGSKIDS AND SLIPS, especially: Tell me exactly how you spin an
airplane from a slip. Clint
This is how it is done according to FAA-H-8083-3 "AIRPLANE FLYING HANDBOOK"
page 5-11:
quote: A spin is when the airplane's wing exceeds the angle of attack
(stall) with a side slip or yaw acting on the airplane at, or beyond the
actual stall. During this uncoordinated maneuver, a pilot may not be aware
that a critical angle of attack has been exceeded until the airplane yaws
out of control toward the lowering wing. If stall recovery is not initiated
immediately, the airplane may enter a spin.
If this stall occurs while the airplane is in a slipping or skidding
turn, this can result in a spin entry and rotation in the direction that the
rudder is being applied, regardless of which wingtip is raised. end quote.
The difference between a skid and a slip is shown on page 4-5 of this same
book. It shows a slip as a maneuver with one wing low and the ball on the
opposite side of the T & B from the low wing whereas a slip occurs with the
ball on the same side as the low wing or the wings level. i.e left wing down
ball left is slip wings level ball right is slip, left wing down ball right
is a skid.
To answer the original question you can spin any time you have a hard over
rudder AND A STALL. Skids and slips are safe and are demonstration required
maneuvers AS LONG AS THERE IS NO STALL. (HIGH SPEED OR LOW
SPEED)(UNACCELERATED OR ACCELERATED).
Message 10
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| Subject: | Question to the list |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
KC2DKF here!
Got my Ham license in 8th grade but haven't excersized the privileges for
awhile...no equipment!
Andrew
KC2DKF
>From: "Grant Bright" <gbright@bellsouth.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Question to the list
>Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 11:59:27 -0400
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Grant Bright" <gbright@bellsouth.net>
>
>I don't think I have read anyone mentioning Ham Radio.
>
>Are any of you Fox fliers also ham radio ops? If so, it would be great to
>meet up and have a round-table.
>
>If not, there is Skpe which is free and allows "conference calls."
>
>Skype can be found at http://www.skype.com With a $10 microphone and $10
>speakers, it works well...but not as much fun as ham radio.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Grant
>
>Series 5 Vixen
>912UL
>N21VX
>
>W4OJC
>
>Atlanta, Georgia
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 11
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| Subject: | series V C.G and weight limits |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Just to support what Phil says: My Series 5 with a series 7 firewall
forward and 912S weighs 776 lbs. This is with Grove gear, large heavy
tires, adjustable pedals, dual brakes, two 13 gallon gas tanks and weight
conscious building.
750 lbs is not unreasonable.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
phil@lakercustom.com
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:34 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: phil@lakercustom.com
I own and have flown a Vixen for 1500 hours. It weighs 755 pounds
on EAA's "certified" scales. Tri gear, 1550 Grove gear, Clevelands.
I was very carefull about weight from the first hour of build. I
am sure a 750 pound Kitfox Super Sport will be acheivable, and am
betting the business on it. The demonstrator fuselage and weldments
are going to the powder coater now, I'll keep you all posted. The
Super Sport 1550 option is a slightly heavier gear.
Thanks for the support shown us at Oshkosh!
Phil Laker
> I guess the new series 7 airplanes that will be sold will have the 1320 GW
> that sport pilot allows according to the literature being handed out at
> OSH with a 1550 GVW option, which I think John said is a different landing
> gear being the main or only difference. Their literature shows EW of 750
> lbs. which is likely very optimistic, since most Model IV's come out in or
> above that area, and if you actually come out around 900 lbs. which some
> have suggested you would only have slightly over 400 lbs. for fuel and
> people, or with full tanks of 27 gal, would make it a single place
> airplane for most of us and a max pilot weight of 258 lbs. One of the many
> "loop holes" I guess of the Sport Pilot thing. Bob U.
> ----- Original Message -----
>
Message 12
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NTSB Identification: ANC99LA101 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please
contact Records Management Division
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, July 31, 1999 in ANCHORAGE, AK
Probable Cause Approval Date: 1/18/2001
Aircraft: Haering Avid Flyer AVID FLYER, registration: N511AF
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
The solo commercial pilot reported that during cruise flight the engine
began to run rough, and lose power. He noted that for a short time, he
was able to restore partial engine power by actuating the engine fuel
primer. While attempting to land on a small, private airstrip, all
engine power was lost, and the airplane collided with a stand of trees.
An examination of the interior of the fiberglass fuel tanks revealed
delamination of the resin material within the tank, and both main fuel
tank outlets were blocked with a brown, plastic-like material.
Examination of both in-line wing fuel filters revealed the presence of
the same material found in the main fuel tanks. The pilot/owner stated
that in the past, he had operated the airplane for about 40 hours using
an alcohol based fuel. AVID Aircraft service letter number 03, dated
5/91, covering all AVID Flyer models, stipulates that a placard be
placed near the filler neck stating, in part: 'NO ALCOHOL BLENDED FUELS.
These fuels may cause deterioration of the fiberglass tanks or
carburetor parts.' The pilot/owner stated that since he has owned the
airplane, he has not received any warnings or directives concerning the
use of alcohol based fuels directly from the manufacture of the airplane
kit, AVID Aircraft, Inc.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows:
A loss of engine power due to blockage of the airplane fuel system, a
delamination of the fiberglass fuel tanks, and the usage of an improper
fuel. A factor associated with the accident was the failure of the kit
manufacturer to inform the pilot/owner against the usage of alcohol
based fuel.
Full narrative available
Index for Jul1999 | Index of months
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
This was pretty much my thinking. Pardon the quote, but my wife, a flight
attendant for a major, was reading my emails and ran across one of the posts
on the"LML" where one respondent said somethingl like, some airline pilots
tend to have big egos. Sitting in a quiet room, I hear, "Helloo'-oo".
I discussed the three in three thousand with the Lancair owner I am helping
and he described a flight the day before from Billings, Montana to home. He
always uses flight following and apparently the controller had more than he
could handle so Brad was informend that he no longer had a transponder
signal and was now on his own. I have to add here that he was later
informed by a different controller that his transponder was working fine.
Brad described the chore he had, to fly through or around the MOAs, fire
fighting TFRs and all the other stuff he was aware of, but had counted on
Flight Following to vector him through all that. Brad then went on to
suggest an appreciation for the pilots that essentially do the planning and
then do the flying by themselves - us. The thrust of his story was his
early start, before daybreak, and a rather nice flight home, climbing only
to get out of some light turbulence - I don't think he wanted to bounce
around his new custom wired panel in the back seat - and his friend that
left early afternoon that same day who, flying in the mid teens, picked up
an inch of ice in clouds, using the deicing boots and eventually having to
climb to 18,000 ft. with oxygen to get out of the ice.
The VFR pilot understanding the typical afternoon weather over the desert
and the Sierras and the early start,desiring to avoid afternoon flight if at
all possible and the IFR pilot perfectly O.K. with doing what it takes to
make the same flight, but according to a more convenient time schedule.
I think sometimes the limitations of our airplanes and our personal
limitations, if understood and respected, are real pluses in the safety
record of our airplanes. With regard to Brad's story, I think I know which
airplane I would have preferred being a passenger on.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 9:24 PM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
>
>
> MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net wrote:
>> I wouldn't lose any sleep over it Lowell. The numbers you heard provide
>> far too little information to draw any conclusions from. It could simply
>> mean that when you drive the heavy iron for a living you forget how to
>> fly a real airplane.
>
>
> You know, I have a cousin that has 20 some odd years at a major airline.
> Here is his story relating to flying "real airplanes." Years back, he
> owned a Cessna 210. He said it was hell being the only professional pilot
> who owned a plane in the family. He was automatically elected the family
> air taxi. Also, he lived in a large city and the plane was kept at an
> airport with Class B airspace. He said going flying was too much like
> going to work. He lost interest in flying it and sold it. Fast forward
> 12 years. He had moved to a very small town, the kids had moved out,
> and less than 2 miles away there was a grass runway where the locals did
> touch and goes all day in cubs, 150's, and Champs. Living close enough to
> see and hear that all day eventually got to him. The GA bug bit again. A
> friend of his had a Grumman Tiger that was in excellent shape and was for
> sale cheap. He hitched a ride in a nieghbor's 182 to pick the plane up
> and fly it home. When he got there, t!
> he seller had him sit in the left seat while he "checked out" my cousin as
> he sat in the right seat, in the hangar with the door open by pointing to
> instruments and going over V-speeds. He flew it home. He parked the
> plane and immediately called an instructor. He said that had he kept
> flying the plane, he would have screwed up. He said it was odd to come
> home from flying a 727 for a living and then get in the Tiger with an
> instructor half his age who had never flown anything larger than a Seneca
> to learn to fly all over again. He says that too many airline pilots do
> not fly their GA aircraft enough and then are lulled into being over
> confident because they are pilots for a living. THe difference is,
> according to him, that there is a difference between a flight deck with
> two other crew members, advanced computerized navigational systems, auto
> pilots, etc. and flying a Tiger, Cessna, or a two seat taildragger. He
> says had he let his ego let him keep flying the plane af!
> ter he bought it without getting a proper checkout or addition!
> al instr
>
> uction after not flying GA for over a decade, he would have died in it.
> He also says that sometimes he has to make himself find the time to fly
> the little airplane to keep his skills sharp. I just wonder if those 3
> pilots that that airline are losing a year, if that is an accurate number,
> could be victims of flying an airplane they are not savvy on because after
> all, they fly for a living? Just a thought, and do not archive.
>
> --------
> Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52689#52689
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
kitfoxmike sez:
>The way I see it, you can only stall IF you go aft stick. Thus you
>are not in a slip anymore you are in uncoordinated flight, you WILL
>stall and go right into a spin.
A slip (or skid) IS uncoordinated flight! A spin is uncoordinated
flight. The difference is, a slip or skid happens with enough
airspeed to fly and a spin happens when you are stalled. It is only
indirectly related to where the stick is, it has everything to do
with your airspeed (well, angle of attack really).
The bottom line is, don't stall if you are slipping or skidding.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 15
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| Subject: | Digest Anomalies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Matt, et. al.,
Is there any way to get the digest-producing code to strip the HTML
so messages like this can come through on the digest messages? It's
a real pain to have to go to the forums to find out what someone has
said.
>Time:
>12:51:41 PM PST US
>From:
>"John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
>Subject:
>Re: Motorcycle grip Throttle
>
> --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
>
> A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
> The entire body of the message was removed. Please
> resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
>
> HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
> in their client's default configuration. If you're using
> HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
> and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
>
> --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Question to the list |
Grant
WB5YEZ, Model IV Speedster, Cedar Park, Texas.
Jimmie
Grant Bright <gbright@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Grant Bright"
I don't think I have read anyone mentioning Ham Radio.
Are any of you Fox fliers also ham radio ops? If so, it
would be great to meet up and have a round-table.
If not, there is Skpe which is free and allows "conference
calls."
Skype can be found at http://www.skype.com With a $10
microphone and $10 speakers, it works well...but not as much
fun as ham radio.
Cheers,
Grant
Series 5 Vixen
912UL
N21VX
W4OJC
Atlanta, Georgia
Message 17
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| Subject: | 912ULS - Oil in Exhaust |
The engine had not been operated for 5 weeks. Temperatures in the hangar
during this period were in excess of 100 deg F. It was hand propped,
several revolutions, until the oil level in the external reservoir was more
than half way up the dipstick. Since the battery was low the initial start
was attempted with the choke full on. The engine went through a couple of
revolutions and stopped when it tried to fire. The next attempt ended with
a single backfire after two of three revolutions. So the choke was closed
and the starter was engaged and the engine rotated several times, just
enough for the oil pressure to register 70psig, but it did not start. The
started was disengaged. Then the starter was engaged with the choke on and
the engine fired and ran smoothly at 2000 RPM. There was just a trace of
smoke. It did not seem to persist so it was attributed to excess fuel from
the previous attempts to start the engine. The engine idled and responded
to throttle inputs normally and taxiing was begun. Two to three minutes
later there was a large amount of smoke coming out of the exhaust and oil
started to collect on the left landing gear and lift strut. The engine was
operated for another couple of minutes during the return to the hangar.
Most of the mosquitoes had left the area by this time. After a total of 5
minutes of operation the smoke stopped. The inspection after shutdown
revealed the oil level in the tank to be at the full mark and the interior
of the exhaust pipe was coated with oil. Subsequently the engine has been
operated for more than two hours with no trace of smoke or oil.
Does anyone know of a similar experience?
Thanks in advance!
John Banes
S6 912S 225TT Pennzoil Motorcycle Oil 10W40
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: series V C.G and weight limits |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Have to disagree a bit with your numbers. First though, I scanned my
personal achives and found that you fly a Model IV and suspect you have a
582, is that correct? I am curious about your empty weight.
My Model IV with R-912 weighed in at 704 lbs with all fairings, spring gear
and junk like kick panels and carpet. Mine is the heaviest of all the ones
in our flying group and the lightest comes in at exactly 100 lbs lighter
than mine - 604 lbs.
Unlike other claims made by so many people trying to market such things as
engines, I can't imagine the three guys - all Kitfox owners - actually
builders and owners - and pilots would begin their tenure at Kitfox Aircraft
LLC with credibility damaging claims. Granted the numbers are likely
calculated, but it is not a group of engineers here, these guys, all three,
have walked the walk and have a lot at stake in terms of the success of
their business. With the major credibility damaging practices of late
Skystar, it would be hard for me to understand the new group starting off in
the same way.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:23 AM
I guess the new series 7 airplanes that will be sold will have the 1320 GW
that sport pilot allows according to the literature being handed out at OSH
with a 1550 GVW option, which I think John said is a different landing gear
being the main or only difference. Their literature shows EW of 750 lbs.
which is likely very optimistic, since most Model IV's come out in or above
that area, and if you actually come out around 900 lbs. which some have
suggested you would only have slightly over 400 lbs. for fuel and people, or
with full tanks of 27 gal, would make it a single place airplane for most of
us and a max pilot weight of 258 lbs. One of the many "loop holes" I guess
of the Sport Pilot thing. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMuller589@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: series V C.G and weight limits
I tried to attach a Attach a copy of a factory weight and balance cleaned
up of extraneous comments regarding other than un-swept wing, non-series V
etc data. The series V comes in forward swept one degree or non swept wing.
THE MAX GROSS WEIGHT RECOMMENDED IS 1550 LBS BUT YOU CAN CERTIFICATE ANY MAX
WEIGHT YOU DESIRE. The FAA inspectors recommend you use whatever you think
your estimated max useful weight will be so you don't exceed it in use for
insurance and accident purposes..The floor and bag are very large but you
can also make the baggage compartment any shape you want and many people put
in a long thin-wall pvc tube for skis and fishing poles. Its up to you to
keep the c.g. in limits. The factory says the MGW is 1550 lbs , Mean
Aerodynamic Center 51.1 in, forward cgl imit 9.96 in, rearward cg limit
14.75 in. The cg limits are absolute and must be complied there is no
discretion here, only in the max gross weight should you use other than
factory limits and I don't recommend that.
Message 19
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Layne, my S5 with NSI engine and prop weighed in at 870. The CAP prop
weighed about 23 lbs all by itself. I could have built it lighter, but
wanted to have lots of goodies for cross country. If I were to do it
over I probably could easily eliminate 30 lbs. The gross weight goes by
serial number so perhaps somebody can give you the breakdown on that.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: debrun26@juno.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com ; kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flaps.
Hi All, I'm looking at buying a KF5 and would like to know what the
usual empty weight is with a NSI 100hp engine. The plane has it's tail
# but no cetified weight. Also, is the gross wt 1550 lbs? I've only
seen a model 4 and would like to know if the baggage area is larger in
the KF5. Also how do I find out what the CG range is? Thanks much,
Layne
________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 20
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| Subject: | Slips & Skids again |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Slips & Skids again |
My model IV with a 912 S weighed in at 596 pounds. I added an autopilot
and it came up to 600 even. It is a bare bones airplane except for the
autopilot. I plan to get a transponder soon.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bazzill
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:01 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Slips & Skids again
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill"
One more comment for the road. It is very easy to get into a skidding
turn and slow. It's almost natural as you are flying level most of the
time with some slight banks. When you put yourself into a steep forward
wing down slip (these don't happen by accident) you do it to lose
altitude and are very aware whats is happening. Like I said in the past,
pretty hard to spin out of a planned slip. Kitfox drivers should
practice these, flaperons are not like the Cessna barn door flaps.
Those flaps can make people lazy fliers. My 2 cent's worth again.
Clint
P.S. It is most unusual to find a 700 lb Model IV kitfox, that is with
a 912 series engine.
=========================
=========================
http://wiki.matronics.com
=========================
=========================
===========
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Slips & Skids again |
Unusual for a 4 to be less than 700 Pounds??? My buddy's is loaded and w
eighs in at 620. I don't think he could fit another item on his instrume
nt panel.
Rex in Michigan
-- "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.com> wrote:
My model IV with a 912 S weighed in at 596 pounds. I added an autopilot
and it came up to 600 even. It is a bare bones airplane except for the
autopilot. I plan to get a transponder soon. Barry West----- Original
Message ----- From: Clint Bazzill To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Su
nday, August 06, 2006 2:01 PMSubject: Kitfox-List: Slips & Skids again
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" One more comment for
the road. It is very easy to get into a skidding turn and slow. It's a
lmost natural as you are flying level most of the time with some slight
banks. When you put yourself into a steep forward wing down slip (these
don't happen by accident) you do it to lose altitude and are very aware
whats is happening. Like I said in the past, pretty hard to spin out of
a planned slip. Kitfox drivers should practice these, flaperons are no
t like the Cessna barn door flaps. Those flaps can make people lazy fli
ers. My 2 cent's worth again. Clint P.S. It is most unusual to find a
700 lb Model IV kitfox, that is with a 912 series ========
========================
========== Features Subscriptions http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ===============
========== ==============
=========== =============
=======================
<html><P>Unusual for a 4 to be less than 700 Pounds??? My buddy's is loa
ded and weighs in at 620. I don't think he could fit another item on his
instrument panel.</P>
<P>Rex in Michigan<BR><BR>-- "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.
com> wrote:<BR></P>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My model IV with a 912 S weighed in at
596 pounds. I added an autopilot and it came up to 600 even.
It is a bare bones airplane except for the autopilot. I plan to g
et a transponder soon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Barry West</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">
<B>From:</B> <A title=clint_bazzill@hotmail.com href="mailto:clint_b
azzill@hotmail.com">Clint Bazzill</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=kitfox-list@matron
ics.com href="mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com">kitfox-list@matronics.
com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:0
1 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Kitfox-List: Slips &
Skids again</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <CL
INT_BAZZILL@HOTMAIL.COM>
<DIV>
<DIV class=RTE>One more comment for the road. It is very easy to
get into a skidding turn and slow. It's almost natural as you are
flying level most of the time with some slight banks. When you pu
t yourself into a steep forward wing down slip (these don't happen by ac
cident) you do it to lose altitude and are very aware whats is happening
. Like I said in the past, pretty hard to spin out of a planned slip.&nb
sp; Kitfox drivers should practice these, flaperons are not like the Ces
sna barn door flaps. Those flaps can make people lazy fliers. 
; My 2 cent's worth again. Clint</DIV>
<DIV class=RTE> </DIV>
<DIV class=RTE>P.S. It is most unusual to find a 700 lb Model IV kitfo
x, that is with a 912 series ===============
========================
=== Features Subscriptions http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitf
ox-List ======================
=== =====================
==== ====================
================ </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOT
E></html>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Slips & Skids again |
I think I overdid it. Drilled holes in the brake rotors, bored out the
axel, mininimum of instruments and thin paint in less critical areas.
I recently added home made liftstrut fairings which got me up from 95 to
100 mph and will soon add a transponder. I can climb at 1200 fpm, solo
with 20 gallons of gas. The fairing helped the climb. It is a draggy
airplane but a lot of fun to fly. I flew it to Oshkosh for the fourth
time this year.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: Rexster
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Slips & Skids again
Unusual for a 4 to be less than 700 Pounds??? My buddy's is loaded and
weighs in at 620. I don't think he could fit another item on his
instrument panel.
Rex in Michigan
-- "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.com> wrote:
My model IV with a 912 S weighed in at 596 pounds. I added an
autopilot and it came up to 600 even. It is a bare bones airplane
except for the autopilot. I plan to get a transponder soon.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bazzill
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:01 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Slips & Skids again
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill"
One more comment for the road. It is very easy to get into a
skidding turn and slow. It's almost natural as you are flying level
most of the time with some slight banks. When you put yourself into a
steep forward wing down slip (these don't happen by accident) you do it
to lose altitude and are very aware whats is happening. Like I said in
the past, pretty hard to spin out of a planned slip. Kitfox drivers
should practice these, flaperons are not like the Cessna barn door
flaps. Those flaps can make people lazy fliers. My 2 cent's worth
again. Clint
P.S. It is most unusual to find a 700 lb Model IV kitfox, that is
with a 912 series
=========================
================= Features
Subscriptions http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
=========================
=========================
=========================
===========
Message 24
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
I am wiring the tach on my 912UL. I have 2 wires from the engine. One is white
with green stripe and one is white with red stripe. My documents do not cover
these colors of wires anywhere. Can someone tell me which wire goes to which terminal
on the tach. I know #1 is battery but need info for #2 & #3.
Thanks
--------
Brett
Model IV 1200/912UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52838#52838
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: series V C.G and weight limits |
For what it is worth, my Classic IV/912UL with every speed fairing along with a
full panel and upholstry/carpets came in at well under 700 (673). Maybe Bob is
referring to the V's which likely will exeed 700#.
John Kerr, The Kitfox is more fun to fly than the RV9. "Dirt bike vs. Road bike"
I have three airplanes because I can't afford four; yet.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
I guess the new series 7 airplanes that will be sold will have the 1320 GW that
sport pilot allows according to the literature being handed out at OSH with a
1550 GVW option, which I think John said is a different landing gear being the
main or only difference. Their literature shows EW of 750 lbs. which is likely
very optimistic, since most Model IV's come out in or above that area, and
if you actually come out around 900 lbs. which some have suggested you would
only have slightly over 400 lbs. for fuel and people, or with full tanks of 27
gal, would make it a single place airplane for most of us and a max pilot weight
of 258 lbs. One of the many "loop holes" I guess of the Sport Pilot thing.
Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMuller589@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: series V C.G and weight limits
I tried to attach a Attach a copy of a factory weight and balance cleaned up of
extraneous comments regarding other than un-swept wing, non-series V etc data.
The series V comes in forward swept one degree or non swept wing. THE MAX GROSS
WEIGHT RECOMMENDED IS 1550 LBS BUT YOU CAN CERTIFICATE ANY MAX WEIGHT YOU
DESIRE. The FAA inspectors recommend you use whatever you think your estimated
max useful weight will be so you don't exceed it in use for insurance and accident
purposes..The floor and bag are very large but you can also make the baggage
compartment any shape you want and many people put in a long thin-wall pvc
tube for skis and fishing poles. Its up to you to keep the c.g. in limits.
The factory says the MGW is 1550 lbs , Mean Aerodynamic Center 51.1 in, forward
cgl imit 9.96 in, rearward cg limit 14.75 in. The cg limits are absolute and
must be complied there is no discretion here, only in the max gross weight should
you use other than factory limits and I don't re
commen
d that.
<html><body>
<DIV>For what it is worth, my Classic IV/912UL with every speed fairing along with
a full panel and upholstry/carpets came in at well under 700 (673). Maybe
Bob is referring to the V's which likely will exeed 700#.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr, The Kitfox is more fun to fly than the RV9. "Dirt bike vs.
Road bike"</DIV>
<DIV>I have three airplanes because I can't afford four; yet.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Bob Unternaehrer"
<shilocom@mcmsys.com> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1476" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=3>I guess the new series 7 airplanes that will be
sold will have the 1320 GW that sport pilot allows according to the literature
being handed out at OSH with a 1550 GVW option, which I think John said is a
different landing gear being the main or only difference. Their literature
shows EW of 750 lbs. which is likely very optimistic, since most Model IV's
come out in or above that area, and if you actually come out around 900
lbs. which some have suggested you would only have slightly over 400 lbs. for
fuel and people, or with full tanks of 27 gal, would make it a single place
airplane for most of us and a max pilot weight of 258 lbs. One
of the many "loop holes" I guess of the Sport Pilot thing. Bob U.
</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #ff0000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=AMuller589@aol.com href="mailto:AMuller589@aol.com">AMuller589@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=kitfox-list@matronics.com href="mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com">kitfox-list@matronics.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Kitfox-List: series V C.G and
weight limits</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>I tried to attach a Attach a copy of a factory weight and balance cleaned
up of extraneous comments regarding other than un-swept wing, non-series
V etc data. The series V comes in forward swept one degree or non swept wing.
THE MAX GROSS WEIGHT RECOMMENDED IS 1550 LBS BUT YOU CAN CERTIFICATE ANY MAX
WEIGHT YOU DESIRE. The FAA inspectors recommend you use whatever you think
your estimated max useful weight will be so you don't exceed it in use for insurance
and accident purposes..The floor and bag are very large but you can also
make the baggage compartment any shape you want and many people put in a long
thin-wall pvc tube for skis and fishing poles. Its up to you to keep the c.g.
in limits. The factory says the MGW is 1550 lbs , Mean Aerodynamic Center
51.1 in, forward cgl imit 9.96 in, rearward cg limit 14.75 in. The cg limits are
absolute and must be complied there is no discretion here, only in the max
gross weight should you use other than factory limits
and I
don't recommend that.</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the Lists because
of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new filter that will
limit the total size of any given message posted to the List. I have initially
set the limit to 2MB
and we'll see how everyone likes that.
If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set limit, they
will receive an email back indicating that their message wasn't posted to the
List and why. Also included in the message will be the current size limit and
how large their message
was.
Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: series V C.G and weight limits |
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Slips and all the rest. |
I started my flying in 1953 in gliders. At that time I was taught to make coordinated
turns only and keep the ball in the middle. Side slips during turns was
a no-no, either right or left. It invites stalls.
Go ahead and shoot me down if you think you know better.
The only good slip is a forward slip, right or left, on final, to loose altitude
prior to landing. For practice, try forward slips at altitude. Right around
48 to 55 mph works best for me. Straighten the Fox out just befor landing.
Herbert Gottelt M-4/1200.
Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
I think I need a little help here.
When I slip to landing, I usually give full right rudder and drop the left
wing to control heading, using elevator to control airspeed. If I
transition from my typical slip to a skidding turn, I will have to have to
go from full right rudder, through neutral rudder to an uncoodinated left
rudder (assuming flying left traffic). I would think this would be a real
rarity if not unheard of with any pilot with more than a few hours. My
guess is that when Clint described his turns to final, slipping all the way
down, he is using a left slip in left traffic and would use a right slip in
right traffic - just a guess.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 11:25 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike"
>
> first off, I'm not upset, just concerned and I don't want to read anymore
> about accidents. Now, if a person is in a slip and gets messed up in
> there thinking, they can go into a skid. Now, I've read some post were
> people are slipping and going in a side slip, now in my opinion a side
> slip is ok, but not to be mistaken for doing a base to final, or any other
> turn, it's just for alignment when off slightly on your final with the
> runway. The skid can accure if doing a slip on base to final, expecially
> if you are turning one direction over the other depends which side you are
> slipping. My advice, take out the slip when making any kind of turn and
> make sure you have proper down elevator. Last note: this thread says slips
> and all the rest. Skids are one of the rest.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
> http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
> rv7 wingkit
> reserved 287RV
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52346#52346
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Slips & Skids again |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Les Chambers" <l_chambers@ckt.net>
Clint,
Will you please post your startup & shutdown routine for the 912S again?
Thanks,
Les Chambers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:01 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Slips & Skids again
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" One more comment for
> the road. It is very easy to get into a skidding turn and slow. It's
> almost natural as you are flying level most of the time with some slight
> banks. When you put yourself into a steep forward wing down slip (these
> don't happen by accident) you do it to lose altitude and are very aware
> whats is happening. Like I said in the past, pretty hard to spin out of a
> planned slip. Kitfox drivers should practice these, flaperons are not
> like the Cessna barn door flaps. Those flaps can make people lazy fliers.
> My 2 cent's worth again. Clint
>
> P.S. It is most unusual to find a 700 lb Model IV kitfox, that is with a
> 912 series engine.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba. New question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
Dave, And List,
What are your thoughts about Polytone over Aerothane if it is sanded heavily
with wet dry?
Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave and Diane" <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polytone over old polytone with carnauba. New
question
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
>
> Jose,
>
> only over polytone. Poly tone behaves a lot like lacquer - it is strictly
> a
> solvent carried pigment/binder with no polymerization going on - just a
> drying out of the solvent resulting in a finish that will dissolve in the
> same solvent used in the original paint. Like lacquer, 15 or 20 years of
> use
> results in polytone becoming much harder - that is essentially what the
> rejuvenator is all about - something that will get into the old polytone.
> Urethane (urethane Clear , aerothane, etc) of any kind will not allow the
> solvent penetration, so the rejuvenator will not do anything to the
> urethane
> products, except coat them - urethanes do polymerize after application so
> the
> solvent won't do much.
>
> It is kind of a catch22 - Polytone is easier to work with, but it is not
> all
> that solvent resistant (solvents like gasoline, alcohol, MEK). Aerothane
> (and
> other urethanes) are extremely solvent resistant after they cure, but they
> are difficult to work with later.
>
> Just a guess, based on my experience with auto paints (urethanes,
> enamels), if
> you have urethane on top, it will be necessary to create enough "tooth" in
> the surface by sanding (Usually water sanding with wet or dry sandpaper of
> 320-400 grit) The sanded urethane essentially becomes your base on which
> you
> can apply a new layer of paint.
>
> It sounds like you may have a non-standard finish. I am asssuming there is
> something between the clear and the dacron. On thing a person has to watch
> out for is getting too many layers over the fabric as this can result in
> the
> paint cracking.
>
> Good luck with your project,
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dave S
> St Paul, MN
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> On Wednesday 26 July 2006 7:15 pm, Jose M. Toro wrote:
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Dave:
>>
>> Would this work on dupont urethane clear paint applied
>> over dacron?
>>
>> Jose
>>
>> --- Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net> wrote:
>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane
>> > <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
>> >
>> > Jose,
>> >
>> > I think I can figure out what you are looking for -
>
>
>
Message 31
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Brett, For what it's worth, mine has white and green (or blue) from the
engine. White goes to negative with the ground. Battery positive, of
course goes to + and the green (or blue) goes to the bottom terminal. I
don't know how that terminal is marked as it is well out of sight in my
installation.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tach Wires
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
>
> I am wiring the tach on my 912UL. I have 2 wires from the engine. One is
> white with green stripe and one is white with red stripe. My documents do
> not cover these colors of wires anywhere. Can someone tell me which wire
> goes to which terminal on the tach. I know #1 is battery but need info for
> #2 & #3.
> Thanks
>
> --------
> Brett
> Model IV 1200/912UL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52838#52838
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS - Oil in Exhaust |
John, I had experienced the same thing at two different times from long
periods of the engine not running.
however there was no backfiring after it was started. I would
say your backfiring was caused from a
low battery and a flooded engine.
I wouldn't worry about it. I've flown my kitfox 40 hours sense
then, and I just got back from Oshkosh
flying another 12 hours, and the 912 UL purred like a kitten all the
way.
David Yeamans
Kitfox IV 1200 912 ULS
----- Original Message -----
From: John Banes
To: Kitfox list - Matronics
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 12:52 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912ULS - Oil in Exhaust
The engine had not been operated for 5 weeks. Temperatures in the
hangar during this period were in excess of 100 deg F. It was hand
propped, several revolutions, until the oil level in the external
reservoir was more than half way up the dipstick. Since the battery was
low the initial start was attempted with the choke full on. The engine
went through a couple of revolutions and stopped when it tried to fire.
The next attempt ended with a single backfire after two of three
revolutions. So the choke was closed and the starter was engaged and
the engine rotated several times, just enough for the oil pressure to
register 70psig, but it did not start. The started was disengaged.
Then the starter was engaged with the choke on and the engine fired and
ran smoothly at 2000 RPM. There was just a trace of smoke. It did not
seem to persist so it was attributed to excess fuel from the previous
attempts to start the engine. The engine idled and responded to
throttle inputs normally and taxiing was begun. Two to three minutes
later there was a large amount of smoke coming out of the exhaust and
oil started to collect on the left landing gear and lift strut. The
engine was operated for another couple of minutes during the return to
the hangar. Most of the mosquitoes had left the area by this time.
After a total of 5 minutes of operation the smoke stopped. The
inspection after shutdown revealed the oil level in the tank to be at
the full mark and the interior of the exhaust pipe was coated with oil.
Subsequently the engine has been operated for more than two hours with
no trace of smoke or oil.
Does anyone know of a similar experience?
Thanks in advance!
John Banes
S6 912S 225TT Pennzoil Motorcycle Oil 10W40
Message 33
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| Subject: | Question to the list |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
N5MPC here. NO ham gear up and running now. Putting all my pennies and
time in the project. Planning to one day put 2m/440 in the plane though.
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Grant Bright
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Question to the list
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Grant Bright" <gbright@bellsouth.net>
I don't think I have read anyone mentioning Ham Radio.
Are any of you Fox fliers also ham radio ops? If so, it
would be great to meet up and have a round-table.
If not, there is Skpe which is free and allows "conference
calls."
Skype can be found at http://www.skype.com With a $10
microphone and $10 speakers, it works well...but not as much
fun as ham radio.
Cheers,
Grant
Series 5 Vixen
912UL
N21VX
W4OJC
Atlanta, Georgia
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Question to the list |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I was WA7SZJ until I failed to renew. Regarding ham gear in the airplane,
I had an experience in the 70s when I was busily engaged as crew on an ocean
racing yacht. On one race to Hawaii, we were mid Pacific when I got on the
radio to see what I could find. There was an airline pilot - a ham - who
filled the more boring parts of his trans Pacific route utilizing his
priveleges. He explained that the radios on board could be tuned to the ham
frequencise and we talked for a time on 40 meters until he had to turn to
ATC .
Every once in a while, I get the bug again, but it has never gotten me
going. We were all using tube equipment then and I don't know if I could
handle the theory now.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Question to the list
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy Fultz" <fultz@trip.net>
>
> N5MPC here. NO ham gear up and running now. Putting all my pennies and
> time in the project. Planning to one day put 2m/440 in the plane though.
>
> Andy F.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Grant Bright
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:59 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Question to the list
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Grant Bright" <gbright@bellsouth.net>
>
> I don't think I have read anyone mentioning Ham Radio.
>
> Are any of you Fox fliers also ham radio ops? If so, it
> would be great to meet up and have a round-table.
>
> If not, there is Skpe which is free and allows "conference
> calls."
>
> Skype can be found at http://www.skype.com With a $10
> microphone and $10 speakers, it works well...but not as much
> fun as ham radio.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Grant
>
> Series 5 Vixen
> 912UL
> N21VX
>
> W4OJC
>
> Atlanta, Georgia
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | First flight 541KF |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Having recently completing my tailwheel training I left the field today in
N541KF. The VW powered MK IV Speedster is an absolute joy to fly. Slips
through the air without all of the parasitic drag of my STOL Avid. Flys
hands off and does not squirrel around when the power settings are changed.
This was a concern with the thrust centerline/ angle using the redrive. The
controls feel smooth and solid begging for more input than I plan to do for
a while. Balance feels perfect as I can stall the tailwheel down before the
mains if I want.
That is the good part.... The prop is overpitched and climbed 500' per
minute at best. Cruise was around 90 without being able to reach redline
rpm. Worse than that was this nasty little habit of misfiring after about
1/2 hour hard running. I was doing a left then right mainwheel touch and go
to see what the alignment felt like on asphault. The landing went well with
no tendancy to swerve from either main wheel and a nice transition to
tailwheel. With 3000' of runway 31 asphault left I chose to go around
again. At about 300' agl the motor misfired a few times and I radioed
landing runway 22. I could not contact a small helo playing long on that
runway so I amended my landing to runway 16. This was a 230 course
reversal. With a tailwind and a pos motor I made the turn. It went well and
I could have landed anywhere there if needed. Fortunately I made the runway
so our overactive firefighters did'nt come over and hose me.
After gapping down the plugs at a friends hanger it ran flawlessly. Ten
miles to the north, near my grass strip, I began some steep turns and stalls
to get at least some performance testing in. After 1/2 hour running I made
for the pattern. On my turn to base the same misfire. Yes practice slips
and s turns and come in hot! I had my carb heat on and I don't think it was
ice. I believe it may be that my magneto is overheating and needs baffles
and a scat hose. After cooling down it once again runs perfect. I'll
check fuel flow as well. Any ideas??? Ron NB Ore Cleaning the shorts
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 36
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Just a thought after reading the "crash" comments.
It is possible to turn back after engine failure but you need a height / speed
window to achieve it. bck in the days when I was a QFI on Jet Provosts in the
RAF as I recall we had a window to turn back when higher than 400 ft and 180
kts, we used to practice but it was pretty hairy, the essence being to get the
nose down and turn into any cross wind immediatly and then monitor speed very
closely as you manoeuvered for landing. The other option being to eject!
I guess to turn back a low energy aircraft like a Kitfox, the same principles
apply the vital one being to get the nose down to preserve speed, and to turn
into any crosswind. Practice at height from a high nose climbing attitude and
see just how much height is lost with a simulated engine failure and turning
through 180 deg. Then add say 25% for a safety margin and that would be your
minimum height for turn back. Never even think about it if you are below that
height.
Of course other factors come in, like landing down wind can give you a false
visual illusion of speed, so monitoring airspeed is essential, and you are much
more likely to ground loop on landing with a significant tail wind.
The safest option is of course to land in that big field straight ahead, but
sometimes its not there, still better to control the crash into wind than to stall
in down wind!
Mike
---------------------------------
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Message 37
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| Subject: | New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... |
> From: Matt Dralle [dralle@matronics.com]
> Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start...
Thank you very much, Matt.
I'll repeat here my offer to everyone: Check the size of any attachment. If it
exceeds 200 Kb, try resizing it and if you don't know how, send it to me, I'll
fix it for you.
After all these years of help and good advice I got from this list, it is only
fair that I help my friends with what I can; computer graphic.
Cheers,
Michel
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