Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:12 AM - Re: Flying without doors (Michael Gibbs)
2. 04:12 AM - Door Struts (kitfox)
3. 05:28 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Lynn Matteson)
4. 05:40 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Lynn Matteson)
5. 05:46 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Lynn Matteson)
6. 05:53 AM - Re: Door Struts (Lynn Matteson)
7. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (W Duke)
8. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Lowell Fitt)
9. 07:11 AM - Re: Doors Open (Larry Martin)
10. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Mike Ford)
11. 07:18 AM - Re: Want to buy a KitFox! (spudnuts)
12. 07:27 AM - John McBean door frames (Robert Harris)
13. 07:30 AM - Re: Fuel Smell Revisited (kitfoxmike)
14. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Lyle Persels)
15. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Noel Loveys)
16. 07:38 AM - Capella (John Furey)
17. 07:39 AM - Re: Door Struts (Noel Loveys)
18. 07:48 AM - Re: Door Struts (Noel Loveys)
19. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Dave)
20. 09:44 AM - Re: Flying without doors (wingnut)
21. 09:46 AM - Re: Door Struts (Glenn Horne)
22. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (flier)
23. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Fox5flyer)
24. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Dave)
25. 10:29 AM - Re: Door Struts (Michel Verheughe)
26. 01:28 PM - Re: New Member (Algate)
27. 02:15 PM - Re: Capella (Dee Young)
28. 06:28 PM - Re: Fuel Smell Revisited (wingsdown)
29. 07:12 PM - Re: Door Struts (Glenn Horne)
30. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: sales/use tax RV 9 (Mark Thompson)
31. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Paul Seehafer)
32. 07:28 PM - Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance (Mark Thompson)
33. 07:28 PM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Paul Seehafer)
34. 08:20 PM - Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance (AMuller589@aol.com)
35. 08:23 PM - Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance (AMuller589@aol.com)
36. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (Noel Loveys)
37. 08:29 PM - Re: Re: Flying without doors (AMuller589@aol.com)
38. 08:54 PM - Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance (kurt schrader)
39. 08:59 PM - Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance (kurt schrader)
40. 09:29 PM - Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance (kurt schrader)
41. 09:42 PM - Re: Door Struts (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Paul sez:
>By removing it you have just eliminated the top half of the bearing
>surfaces that hold your flaperon in place. That means your flaperon
>is now going to be able to move up and down in flight.
I don't know what model Kitfox you have, Paul, but that certainly
wasn't true of mine. My Model IV Speedster simply had a slot cut
into each side of the turtle deck to allow the flaperon horn to pass
through. The flaperons were completely supported by the wing
brackets and moved just fine with or without the turtle deck in place.
That said, there are plenty of other reasons not to attempt flight
without the turtle deck in place.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox <kitfox@bulldog.itgo.com>
My KF III does not have gas struts on the doors. I've
thought of adding them and can see several different
options. I am curious how others have installed
struts on their doors.
On the front or back of the frame ?
Did you weld the attach points on the frame and door
or bolt on ?
How long are your struts ?
Any "gotcha's", caveats, or "I would do this
different"?
Thanks,
Bruce
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Or if like me, you taxi with the door open early in the morning on a
grass strip, the little living creatures that get spun up from the
tires wedge into the door tube/ window junction and are a bear to clean
out. One more reason to finish painting the wheel pants and get them on.
Lynn
On Thursday, August 10, 2006, at 08:45 AM, W Duke wrote:
> 2. If you land on a wet surface the stuff that normally spins off the
> tire onto the wing will be on the inside of your door.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I have read of doors opening in flight and on takeoff....what type of
latches do those people have? I have the double-pin latches which
extend about a half-inch into a steel tube which is welded to the
fuselage tubing, both in front of and rear of, the door. I can't
conceive of these ever opening inadvertently. Has anyone with these
double-pin latches EVER had one open accidentally?
Lynn
Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Mike, didn't you have the nylon material attached to the t'deck and to
the fuse member just below the flaperon control tube, which provides a
split bearing around the flap tube? Mine is also a IV Speedster, and it
came with the material...the nylon...and instructions for mounting it.
I recall that I was reluctant to use it at first, but thanks to this
group, I was convinced that it was necessary, so went ahead and
installed it.
Lynn
Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200
On Friday, August 11, 2006, at 04:11 AM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> Paul sez:
>
>> By removing it you have just eliminated the top half of the bearing
>> surfaces that hold your flaperon in place. That means your flaperon
>> is now going to be able to move up and down in flight.
>
> I don't know what model Kitfox you have, Paul, but that certainly
> wasn't true of mine. My Model IV Speedster simply had a slot cut into
> each side of the turtle deck to allow the flaperon horn to pass
> through. The flaperons were completely supported by the wing brackets
> and moved just fine with or without the turtle deck in place.
>
> That said, there are plenty of other reasons not to attempt flight
> without the turtle deck in place.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
My IV came with the attach points welded to the windshield "A" post
(car term), but I had to locate the door frame attach point and rivet
them in place.
The instructions have you close up the lift strut to within an
eight-inch of fully closed, then wire it secure in that almost-closed
position, then use that to locate the door attachment point. This
allows for the "over-center" which happens when the door is nearly
closed, and keeps the door against the fuse just before the door is
latched closed.
Lynn
Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200
On Friday, August 11, 2006, at 07:11 AM, kitfox wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox <kitfox@bulldog.itgo.com>
>
>
> My KF III does not have gas struts on the doors. I've
> thought of adding them and can see several different
> options. I am curious how others have installed
> struts on their doors.
> On the front or back of the frame ?
> Did you weld the attach points on the frame and door
> or bolt on ?
> How long are your struts ?
> Any "gotcha's", caveats, or "I would do this
> different"?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
According to "Skystar" (and I think John Mcbean that told me this): There is no
need for a bearing on the aileron horn. The S5 (I don't know about other models)
had one for some controlling agency issues in Europe. I wanted one anyway
on my 6 but was unable to fashion one easily. So eventually I figured that
if I trusted them enough to design the rest of the airplane I would trust them
on this issue. I have no inboard aileron horn support.
Maxwell S6/TD/IO240
Dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
Paul,
I fly with left door open lots and here is what i find ( also for the record
I have the bowed doors with lexan but no bubble windows)
I lose a few mph in cruise and I say alot cooler on hot days.
My ASI reads lower that with door shut as I have no external static port.
My Left door at times opens on take off and in flight but really no big deal
- ( if you have not experienced this, than you should as if is the cause of
a quite a few accidents yearly. )
I will slip with out issues with door open or shut although the door does come
unlatched at times from the fully open position and will hang in wind and even
close at times. I do not have gas struts.
I would like to add a few points on turtle decks that I have seen. And none
have blown off but I think it would be possible. On some after market turtledecks
that I have seen they have lacked an upper and lower bearing support for
the flapperon horn (I hope this is the right word) I wold think that this bearing
is very critical in ensuring that the horn is supported. With out that
support could the flapperon horn come lose from the flapperon? If so a flutter
" could result" and could cause alot of control issues as well as wing failure.
Dave
KF IV
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Seehafer
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
Regarding removing the turtledeck;
I would NEVER fly a Kitfox (or Avid) with the turtledeck removed. By removing
it you have just eliminated the top half of the bearing surfaces that hold your
flaperon in place. That means your flaperon is now going to be able to move
up and down in flight. That is really bad because it could create flutter
in the flaperon itself. And if that happens with enough speed you could also
cause wing damage. In a worse case scenario wing separation...(yikes!) I don't
know about you, but I don't need that much fresh air...
Regarding doors open in flight;
My float equipped Model IV with LP Aero bubble doors does not act like my old
Avid Flyers or older Kitfoxes with the undercambered airfoil and the less bubbled
doors do. The early airplanes flew just fine with the doors open or closed,
or removed completely. In summer I rarely flew with doors closed. My Kitfox
IV on the other hand needs to be slowed down to 80 mph or less in order to
open the doors without them slamming up against the bottom of the wing (causing
not only potential door glass damage, strut damage, and door frame twisting,
but also the glass rubbing against the bottom of the wing fabric effectively
scuffs [sands] the door glass). So I do not fly with the doors open on my Kitfox
at this time. To correct this concern I am going to make a bracket that
is held in place by the wing tank fuel drain fitting, that will let the door rest
against it (probably will have a rubber pad where it touches the glass) when
the door is completely open. Maybe it's just my
Kitfox, but I thought I would share this with the group should someone else experience
the same problem.
If my attachments go through (?), here are two photos that show how the bubble
doors fit when full open against the bottomside of the laminar flow Riblett
wing. The bubbles definitely limit your ability to get them up against the wing
bottom.
__________________________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Mike, this surprises me as the IV manual calls for the nylon bearings, 1/2
mounted to the fuselage and 1/2 mounted to the turtle deck. I thought it
was the later models that eliminated the bearing. I talked to a later
builder and he was wondering how to close the slotted gap.
Lowell
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:11 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> Paul sez:
>
>>By removing it you have just eliminated the top half of the bearing
>>surfaces that hold your flaperon in place. That means your flaperon is now
>>going to be able to move up and down in flight.
>
> I don't know what model Kitfox you have, Paul, but that certainly wasn't
> true of mine. My Model IV Speedster simply had a slot cut into each side
> of the turtle deck to allow the flaperon horn to pass through. The
> flaperons were completely supported by the wing brackets and moved just
> fine with or without the turtle deck in place.
>
> That said, there are plenty of other reasons not to attempt flight without
> the turtle deck in place.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
>
Message 9
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Both doors open - slip till your hearts content. With one closed - mild
slip into the open door, till your hearts content into the closed door.
You'll be fine. My doors are never closed and I always extreme slip.
Larry
"I have slipped to a landing with both doors open. Probably will not
again after hearing the suggestion about the turtle deck blow out.
Certainly will not slip an open door into the wind with the opposite
door closed."
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
I have this type of door setup (pin in front and rear) My right door handle has
to be fastened with velcro strap in order to keep it tight. The pins seem to
be a little worn (and/or short) With the handle tightned down, it isn't an
issue, but I have had it open in flight and on take off before.
It was a pretty exiting experience the first time it happened.
I agree that flying with doors open is a good thing to try att some point, just
so that you feel better if it were to happen unexpectedly.
I might be a good idea to have a passanger handle the door operations for the first
time.
- Mike
m4 speedster, winconsin
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn
Matteson
I have read of doors opening in flight and on takeoff....what type of
latches do those people have? I have the double-pin latches which
extend about a half-inch into a steel tube which is welded to the
fuselage tubing, both in front of and rear of, the door. I can't
conceive of these ever opening inadvertently. Has anyone with these
double-pin latches EVER had one open accidentally?
Lynn
Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200
__________________________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Want to buy a KitFox! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "spudnuts" <martan@cstone.net>
There are 2 on barnstormers.com right now. Low to mid 40K range.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54091#54091
Message 12
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| Subject: | John McBean door frames |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Robert Harris" <taxman_robert@hotmail.com>
Hi John,
I would like to get some clear doors from you. Are the frames and
attachments included? Do you sell just the frames and then I can cut out
Lexan for the frame?
Robert
home 760-451-1179
work 858-525-8102
>From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
>Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:32:59 -0600
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
>Actually you can get them from us.... Model IV Clear are $217 ea. plus
>shipping....
>
>Fly Safe !!
>John & Debra McBean
>www.kitfoxaircraft.com
>"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Wilson
>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:35 AM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Wilson" <Wilson@REinfo.org>
>
>Any contact info for L/P areo plastics?
>Steve Wilson
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot@msn.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:42 PM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot@msn.com>
> >
> > I have the bubble doors on my Model IV, and luv them> you can buy them
> > from L/P aero plastics.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >>From: "Steve Wilson" <Wilson@REinfo.org>
> >>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
> >>Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 17:15:35 -0600
> >>
> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Wilson" <Wilson@REinfo.org>
> >>
> >>Bubble Doors? I have been trying to get information on Bubble Doors.
> >>What are they like? Can you send a photo? Did you build them, or did
>you
> >>buy them? If you bought them, where and how much?
> >>Steve Wilson
> >>
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
> >>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >>Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:03 PM
> >>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
> >>
> >>
> >>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
> >>>
> >>>I have flown with them off and also with them open. Didn't notice a
> >>>difference between the two. I should mention that these were the
>bubble
> >>>doors, not the stock doors.
> >>>
> >>>Darin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Read this topic online here:
> >>>
> >>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=53691#53691
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Smell Revisited |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
another place to check is the bowl gaskets. I have one carb slighly leaking at
the bowl, just haven't changed the gasket yet. I can't smell it but the wife
can??? you know how the ladies can be on smells. I keep checking the bowl,
usually just a little stain wetness on the back of the bowl, but yet to change
the gasket, was thinking of just pulling the bowl and flat filing with a fine
file to get the high spots off. I generally pull the bowls every 25 hours to
check for water and debrees.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54094#54094
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com>
A wonderful, if inadvertent, pun.
Lyle Persels
On 08 11, 06, at 9:13 AM, Mike Ford wrote:
> I have had it open in flight and on take off before.
>
> It was a pretty exiting experience the first time it happened.
>
Do not archive.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
Lynn:
I just went out and checked my aircraft for the use of those nylon
bushings.
>From what I can see they will prevent some metal fatigue over a period
of
years. I would say that if any one didn't install them they should
consider
doing so.
I'm going to enclose a few pictures of the latching system on my plane.
The
doors are the standard metal frame and the main latch is similar to what
you
will find in a house. Each door also has a safety latch that I check as
part of my run up list. Last year I went to the local scrap yard and
looked
through several hundred automotive gas struts . I came up with one that
was
easy to install to the door and the support behind the seat. I
intentionally made part of the mount that attaches to the door with worm
clamps so the strut goes over centre to help close the door. What I've
found is that when I go to open the door in flight I actually have to
push
to open it. Before installing the strut wind would open the door at
least
halfway.
Noel
>
> Mike, didn't you have the nylon material attached to the
> t'deck and to
> the fuse member just below the flaperon control tube, which
> provides a
> split bearing around the flap tube? Mine is also a IV
> Speedster, and it
> came with the material...the nylon...and instructions for
> mounting it.
> I recall that I was reluctant to use it at first, but thanks to this
> group, I was convinced that it was necessary, so went ahead and
> installed it.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2006, at 04:11 AM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs
> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> >
> > Paul sez:
> >
> >> By removing it you have just eliminated the top half of
> the bearing
> >> surfaces that hold your flaperon in place. That means your
> flaperon
> >> is now going to be able to move up and down in flight.
> >
> > I don't know what model Kitfox you have, Paul, but that certainly
> > wasn't true of mine. My Model IV Speedster simply had a
> slot cut into
> > each side of the turtle deck to allow the flaperon horn to pass
> > through. The flaperons were completely supported by the
> wing brackets
> > and moved just fine with or without the turtle deck in place.
> >
> > That said, there are plenty of other reasons not to attempt flight
> > without the turtle deck in place.
> >
> > Mike G.
> > N728KF
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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I have a friend that needs to go to a LSA and has been looking for a kitfox
but ran across a Capella. Does anyone have experience or opinions on that
plane?
Thanks
John Furey
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I set mine up so the centre occurred when the door is open about five inches
it gives plenty of push to keep the door closed and more than enough to keep
the door open. If I can find another one of those struts I'll put it on the
passenger side being careful to install it so the open position won't hit
the sump drain on that side.
Noel
> My IV came with the attach points welded to the windshield "A" post
> (car term), but I had to locate the door frame attach point and rivet
> them in place.
> The instructions have you close up the lift strut to within an
> eight-inch of fully closed, then wire it secure in that almost-closed
> position, then use that to locate the door attachment point. This
> allows for the "over-center" which happens when the door is nearly
> closed, and keeps the door against the fuse just before the door is
> latched closed.
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I made mounting brackets which I attached to the rear of the door frame with
automotive worm type hose clamps. I decided on this approach because it
isn't a structural part of the aircraft. If one of the worm clamps loosens
there is no safety issue. They are easy to use. They are very easy to
inspect.
The strut itself (only one on the left side) is an automotive style with
ball ends so they may be disconnected at either end with a simple screw
driver to facilitate removing the doors.
I was considering replacing the nuts and bolts and zip pins that hold the
doors on with clevis pins just to make the removal of the doors that much
easier. The truth to be known I don't think I'll get into a situation where
I'll ever remove the doors. This part of the world just isn't warm enough
for that.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfox
> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 8:41 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Door Struts
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox <kitfox@bulldog.itgo.com>
>
>
> My KF III does not have gas struts on the doors. I've
> thought of adding them and can see several different
> options. I am curious how others have installed
> struts on their doors.
> On the front or back of the frame ?
> Did you weld the attach points on the frame and door
> or bolt on ?
> How long are your struts ?
> Any "gotcha's", caveats, or "I would do this
> different"?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
I am talking about a Kitfox IV or prior models.
Maybe John could comment on the flapperon horn nylon bushing . Is it
imperative to have ?
The 5 , 6 and 7 i have no idea.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: W Duke
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
According to "Skystar" (and I think John Mcbean that told me this):
There is no need for a bearing on the aileron horn. The S5 (I don't
know about other models) had one for some controlling agency issues in
Europe. I wanted one anyway on my 6 but was unable to fashion one
easily. So eventually I figured that if I trusted them enough to design
the rest of the airplane I would trust them on this issue. I have no
inboard aileron horn support.
Maxwell S6/TD/IO240
Dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
Paul,
I fly with left door open lots and here is what i find ( also for
the record I have the bowed doors with lexan but no bubble windows)
I lose a few mph in cruise and I say alot cooler on hot days.
My ASI reads lower that with door shut as I have no external static
port.
My Left door at times opens on take off and in flight but really no
big deal - ( if you have not experienced this, than you should as if is
the cause of a quite a few accidents yearly. )
I will slip with out issues with door open or shut although the door
does come unlatched at times from the fully open position and will hang
in wind and even close at times. I do not have gas struts.
I would like to add a few points on turtle decks that I have seen.
And none have blown off but I think it would be possible. On some after
market turtledecks that I have seen they have lacked an upper and
lower bearing support for the flapperon horn (I hope this is the right
word) I wold think that this bearing is very critical in ensuring that
the horn is supported. With out that support could the flapperon horn
come lose from the flapperon? If so a flutter " could result" and
could cause alot of control issues as well as wing failure.
Dave
KF IV
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Seehafer
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
Regarding removing the turtledeck;
I would NEVER fly a Kitfox (or Avid) with the turtledeck removed.
By removing it you have just eliminated the top half of the bearing
surfaces that hold your flaperon in place. That means your flaperon is
now going to be able to move up and down in flight. That is really bad
because it could create flutter in the flaperon itself. And if that
happens with enough speed you could also cause wing damage. In a worse
case scenario wing separation...(yikes!) I don't know about you, but I
don't need that much fresh air...
Regarding doors open in flight;
My float equipped Model IV with LP Aero bubble doors does not act
like my old Avid Flyers or older Kitfoxes with the undercambered airfoil
and the less bubbled doors do. The early airplanes flew just fine with
the doors open or closed, or removed completely. In summer I rarely
flew with doors closed. My Kitfox IV on the other hand needs to be
slowed down to 80 mph or less in order to open the doors without them
slamming up against the bottom of the wing (causing not only potential
door glass damage, strut damage, and door frame twisting, but also the
glass rubbing against the bottom of the wing fabric effectively scuffs
[sands] the door glass). So I do not fly with the doors open on my
Kitfox at this time. To correct this concern I am going to make a
bracket that is held in place by the wing tank fuel drain fitting, that
will let the door rest against it (probably will have a rubber pad where
it touches the glass) when the door is completely open. Maybe it's just
my Kitfox, but I thought I would share this with the group should
someone else experience the same problem.
If my attachments go through (?), here are two photos that show
how the bubble doors fit when full open against the bottomside of the
laminar flow Riblett wing. The bubbles definitely limit your
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
I have the same mechanism that you've described here. I had the right side door
pop open on me on my solo flight :-). It was my fault really. When the instructor
got out of the airplane, he couldn't see from the outside if the steel tube
had captured the pin and not being familiar with it, he couldn't really 'feel'
the difference. He even asked me to verify that the door was closed properly.
But, the right door pin is difficult to see from the left side and I guess
I was too nervous and saw what I wanted to see. As soon as the mains lifted,
the right door popped open. Thankfully, I was in a Kitfox so I still had 90% of
the runway in front of me. I just pulled power, landed strait ahead and stepped
out of the plane to shake brick out of my pants. Next time, I made damn sure
that thing was latched properly..
> I have read of doors opening in flight and on takeoff....what type of latches
do those people have? I have the double-pin latches which
> extend about a half-inch into a steel tube which is welded to the
> fuselage tubing, both in front of and rear of, the door. I can't
> conceive of these ever opening inadvertently. Has anyone with these
> double-pin latches EVER had one open accidentally?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54147#54147
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@verizon.net>
Hi Bruce,
Glenn Horne here.
Got mine from Advance Auto. # 4420. They had to order mine.
Put them on the front. One bracket on the edge of the instrument panel
and one on the door with the cylinder extended. Make the brackets
and rivet them on. Need picture let me know.
Works for me.
Glenn Horne
Model II 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfox" <kitfox@bulldog.itgo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 7:11 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Door Struts
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox <kitfox@bulldog.itgo.com>
>
>
> My KF III does not have gas struts on the doors. I've
> thought of adding them and can see several different
> options. I am curious how others have installed
> struts on their doors.
> On the front or back of the frame ?
> Did you weld the attach points on the frame and door
> or bolt on ?
> How long are your struts ?
> Any "gotcha's", caveats, or "I would do this
> different"?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Yep, they'll open up. Over the years the detent will
get worn and the handle can rotate and the door will
pop open. No big deal though. Doesn't affect flight
at all. Just that big blast of wind and noise will
get your attention. Just pull the door back down and
latch it. Not like you're gonna fall out or
anything! :^)
Regards,
Ted
I can't
>> conceive of these ever opening inadvertently. Has
anyone with these
>> double-pin latches EVER had one open accidentally?
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
After my doors popping open a couple of times I added it to my checklist.
Deke
>
> I have the same mechanism that you've described here. I had the right side
door pop open on me on my solo flight :-). It was my fault really. When the
instructor got out of the airplane, he couldn't see from the outside if the
steel tube had captured the pin and not being familiar with it, he couldn't
really 'feel' the difference. He even asked me to verify that the door was
closed properly. But, the right door pin is difficult to see from the left
side and I guess I was too nervous and saw what I wanted to see. As soon as
the mains lifted, the right door popped open. Thankfully, I was in a Kitfox
so I still had 90% of the runway in front of me. I just pulled power, landed
strait ahead and stepped out of the plane to shake brick out of my pants.
Next time, I made damn sure that thing was latched properly..
>
>
> > I have read of doors opening in flight and on takeoff....what type of
latches do those people have? I have the double-pin latches which
> > extend about a half-inch into a steel tube which is welded to the
> > fuselage tubing, both in front of and rear of, the door. I can't
> > conceive of these ever opening inadvertently. Has anyone with these
> > double-pin latches EVER had one open accidentally?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54147#54147
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
I have a single slide at front of door frame.
Not really a big issue if door opens on takeoff or at anytime really but it
can get your attention.
Key is fly the plane and not wory about door open or closed until you can
give it atention.
Flying with doors open will give you less of a scare if and when it really
happens.
Practice will not make it perfect but will help you in realtime.-
ie door opening, engine failure, stalls, spins, etc.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I have read of doors opening in flight and on takeoff....what type of
> latches do those people have? I have the double-pin latches which extend
> about a half-inch into a steel tube which is welded to the fuselage
> tubing, both in front of and rear of, the door. I can't conceive of these
> ever opening inadvertently. Has anyone with these double-pin latches EVER
> had one open accidentally?
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200
>
>
>
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Aug 11, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Glenn Horne wrote:
> Got mine from Advance Auto. # 4420. They had to order mine.
Advance Auto is a nice web shop, Glenn. But when the ask you your zip
code and you live in Norway ...
Do you have a direct link?
My left door strut has lost much of its compression and it is about
time to replace it.
Thanks in advance,
Michel
do not archive
Message 26
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Hi Lynn
I don't have the S/No with me at work but I'll find out and send it to you
on Monday. I have had quite a time trying to get the EGT under control as I
had a very high EGT at WOT and I had to re-jet to get them right. All other
temps and pressures are right on the money.
I really like the sound and vibration free operation and it is a really
simple power plant to work on. My new plane is model 4 with all speed mods
and it crises around 90mph at 2600rpm burning 14 Ltr / hr - (How does that
compare with yours?)
I had about 500 hrs on my last Rotax 582 powered Kitfox (250 since major
overhaul.) and I really never had any problems. With the few flights I've
done to date with the Jab 2200 I am pretty happy with the performance. This
weekend will tell!!!
Best regards
m
Gary A
-----Original Message----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Member
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Welcome to the wonderful world of Jabiru power, Gary. What serial # is
your engine? I hope you got the later one with the larger heads, and
more cooling area like mine (ser. # 2062). I've got over a hundred
hours on mine and I love it. I may regret saying it, but one nice thing
about having Jab power is that I can skip by all the mail that relates
to Rotax and their problems, and concentrate on reading about how
Kitfoxes fly! And yes, I had a few minor problems at first with the
Jab, but solved them early on.
Lynn
Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200
p.s. really guys and gals, I did not say that to start a war! : )
On Thursday, August 10, 2006, at 01:55 PM, Algate wrote:
> I recently sold C-GVW to a gentleman in Westport, Ontario (near
> Ottawa) and he will soon be added to the list. I was under the
> impression that I might be returning to Australia in the very bear
> future which prompted the sale but as always in business things change
> and it now appears that I will be remaining in Canada for at least a
> couple of years.
>
>
>
> I couldnt go long without a Kitfox so I managed to purchase another
> one from Cornwall, Ontario. My new plane is a Model 4 with Jabiru 2200
> and I am now going through the motions of personalizing it.
>
>
>
> This email is to basically introduce the new owner of C-IGVW (George
> Briggs) to the list .
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
>
> Gary Algate
>
> FAJW
>
>
Message 27
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John, there is a fellow who fly's a Capella that has a hanger next to
me. He built and has flown the thing for years. This guy has nine lives
I swear. He has wrecked the plane four times. One time he flipped it on
its top when he hit a row of trees on a forced landing. He has bent one
wing twice and has used a handliman jack and fence post to straighten it
the main spar twice. He still fly's it so I have to believe it must have
some beef in the design.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: John Furey<mailto:john@fureychrysler.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 8:39 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Capella
I have a friend that needs to go to a LSA and has been looking for a
kitfox but ran across a Capella. Does anyone have experience or opinions
on that plane?
Thanks
John Furey
Message 28
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| Subject: | Fuel Smell Revisited |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
Tape a bit of toilet paper where you think the leak may be. It will
stain it and help you resolve the problem. Oh, disclaimer, don't use the
paper for it intended purpose after that. :)
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff puls
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Smell Revisited
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
Lowell,
Very good information. That will become a part of my preflight. I
sometimes
get fumes in the cockpit during a steep climb. When I level off it goes
away. I leave my cockpit door open in the hangar because I smell fumes
in
the cockpit. I can't find a leak. I assumed that it may be coming from
the
carbs. I don't know. Thanks for the insight. Jeff Classic IV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:31 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Smell Revisited
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> --> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> This topic was discussed recently, and thought I would follow up with
> this
> account. I resloshed my right wing tank a couple of years ago and was
> getting occasional cockpit fuel odors from time to time. And odors in
the
> hangar on hot days that I attributed to venting of the tanks due to
> expansion. All of the previous scenarios was considered until I was
> flying back from Quincy after delivering a friend to pick up his
freshly
> annualed Stearman.
>
> Almost home I began getting a distinct fuel odor in flight. This was
> something new. On getting home, I decided to go forward of the
firewall
> for the source of the smell and discovered a cut fuel line at the
banjo
> bolt on the right carburetor. It was wet to the touch, but thankfully
not
> dripping. Apparently when I changed out the Mil 6000 to the auto hose,
> several years ago, I created a tight enough bend at the banjo fitting
as
> it passed the engine mount tube that over time the fitting began
cutting
> the fuel hose internally until it finally cut through.
>
> I am now wondering if the hangar fumes and the occasional inflight
> odors -
> usually when reducing power in the pattern were from an incipient seep
in
> the fuel line rather than an obstinate tank leak, as now the hangar
smells
> so much better and nothing in flight.
>
> Lowell
>
>
>
Message 29
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@verizon.net>
No Michel I don't.
They don't ship out of the country. Sorry.
If you can't get one in the near feature,maybe we can
work out something to get one to you.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Door Struts
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> On Aug 11, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Glenn Horne wrote:
>> Got mine from Advance Auto. # 4420. They had to order mine.
>
> Advance Auto is a nice web shop, Glenn. But when the ask you your zip
> code and you live in Norway ...
> Do you have a direct link?
> My left door strut has lost much of its compression and it is about
> time to replace it.
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: sales/use tax RV 9 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Thompson" <kr2@earthlink.net>
I just paid the state of florida 1500.00 in revenue tax to have the
privledge of parking my kitfox here,where I have lived and paid taxes all
my life,also I bought htis plane from missippie where my friend paid taxes
on the same plane,.....it sucs....that so called governing agencies....
> [Original Message]
> From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 8/8/2006 2:31:47 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sales/use tax RV 9
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
>
>
> > I ended it with the statement that I realize that everybody needs to
pay their fair share, but if you get carried away, I'll put both of them in
a Delaware Corporqation and you'll never see a cent. Well, when trhe tax
notices came out they wanted $1700 a year for my 1957 H35 Bonanza and about
$950 for the Kitfox. That was 1995 and I have since paid about $150 a year
for taxes and administration charges for a Delaware Corporation which now
owns both planes with A Dover, Delaware address, and I own the Corporation.
It only cost about $300 to set up the Corporation.
>
>
> Now there's the right answer. It's unbelievable to me that I should pay
$950/year in taxes for the privilege of owning a toy that I park in my back
yard and never touches a state road.
>
> Glad I misunderstood the original post in this thread.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=53435#53435
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
MessageHi Noel,
That is a pretty nice Model III you have there as well. Yeah, the
aerocets are a great float. Unfortunately my Model IV has everything
but the kitchen sink in it, so the aerocet amphibs are a little
underfloated for my needs. If I don't try to modify mine for more
floatation I will definitely keep you in mind should I decide to do a
different float. My aerocets are essentially brand new (In some regards
they are better than new).
My prop is an IVO in-flight electric ultralight+ (higher pitch than the
standard). Works good, but I should probably convert to the lower pitch
blades as I can't get the rpms the engine needs to develop max
horsepower. I'm convinced the other blades will increase my climb rate
while reducing my takeoff time on the water. I have never been able to
get to max power rpm of 5800. So even though I have an inflight prop,
not developing max horsepower is reducing my climb and my cruise. But
for now I am just going to enjoy it as is. Overall it works quite well
just the way it is.
I've really been enjoying this Model IV-1200 Kitfox with the 912ul. It
performs very well, especially considering it is only an 80 hp
amphibian. It can get off the water in 8-10 seconds with just me and
1/2 tank of fuel (14 gallons). And with the same load I can climb out
at around a thousand fpm average. Cruise speeds? Well that is the
really fun part. For years all of the Rans S-7's in the area have been
the fast floatplane to catch. Now they have to try and catch me
<snicker> And I only have 80 hp vs their 100 hp. I tested max power
cruise the other day with me and 7/8 tank of fuel (24 gallons) in dead
air - 116 mph one way, and 117 the other. So this little bird cooks
right along. I rarely run my engine that hard, but still typically see
100 mph+ for groundspeeds pretty much wherever I go even at less than
5000 rpm. And that little 80 hp 912 is a real fuel mizer. Fourty hours
of keeping track of my fuel shows an average of 3.3 gallons an hour.
Isn't that something? This little floatplane is incredibly efficient.
I wonder how it might perform if I ever get the prop pitch figured out?
Although it's so good now I am almost afraid to touch anything.
Here are a few pictures in-flight showing my speeds. Note: I have been
too busy flying to finish all the little things like instrument panel
markings.... (chuckle)
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
Paul:
That's a very nice plane you have there. I was wondering about your
prop. It looks like an Ivo. Is it in-flight adjustable?
I have the Aerocet straight floats on my 582 B box powered mod III-A.
They are a hard act to follow on the water. I haven't tried the Full
Lotus floats yet but I can't see how they would handle better on the
water than the Areocets. I would love to have the amphibs. If you ever
decide to sell those floats keep me in mind.
Noel
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Thompson" <kr2@earthlink.net>
Hi Kurt,I am also having a hard time with full elevator control for a stal
landing,I am landing with no flaps and seem to flair high and then
drop...no bounces yet lol...,I am flying with 2 200lb pilots and 26gal fuel
so I know Im heavy,but can we get more elevator authority?
Thanks for your input.........Kitfox4..N61AC
Mark.
> [Original Message]
> From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 8/8/2006 9:27:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: small file Blank series V weight and balance
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> I can confirm it is true on my S-5 for over 50% flaps
> and FWD CG. I run out of trim at around 60 knots and
> no flaps. Still can get enough elevator until 1/2
> flaps. After that it is difficult to get the tail
> down with FWD CG. Just never saw it in a note before.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- AMuller589@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Attached is subject page from SERIES V POH page 2-4.
> > I found a way to reduce
> > it from 2.4mb to 266.4KB. Hope I can figure a way to
> > repeat it for future
> > X-MSN.
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> > <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >
> > What was the source of the note? First I have seen
> > that.
> >
> > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
> >
> > --- AMuller589@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > ...... An associated note said
> > >
> > > " NOTE: it is recommended that flap deflection be
> > > limited to (unspecified)
> > > notch on Series V tail draggers when operating at
> > CG
> > > stations forward of 11.70
> > > inch. The aircraft may not be able to achieve a
> > > three point attitude upon
> > > landing at extreme forward CG stations with full
> > > flaps......
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
Dave,
I have no idea if the NACA vents are affecting the instruments. I
suspect they are not in my Fox as I have the static port on the rear
fuselage. If you are running static off the back of your panel, then
yes, I believe they will affect your instrument accuracy.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
HI Paul. My IV has no static air system and I wonder about the high
volume of air through the NACA vents affecting the instruments. Any
experience?
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Seehafer
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
On the subject of fresh air;
The NACA scoops on the side of my cowl (see pics in previous post)
really provide a lot of fresh air. So much in fact they will blow
papers around in the cockpit if not stowed. And I don't mean a little,
but a lot! A couple of days ago I had to retrieve a map from the back
turtledeck area that was blown back there after I set it down on the
passenger seat while flying. Even in the 97 degree 97% humidity weather
we endured here in Wisconsin this summer, I was generally able to stay
cool. (yes, I just had to go flying when it was that hot. I wanted to
see how well my fox would perform off the asphalt, as well as the water
under those conditions. I was pleasantly surprised...)
Opening the doors a half inch or so does seem to be an easy way to
get a lot of fresh air, but overall I've found the NACA scoops to be
equally effective. Not only do they give you a lot of air, but they
blow it right on you. So if you are still building, or are considering
modification, I highly recommend putting them in.
On a last note; A friend of mine with a model III Kitfox installed
the rotating scoops that fit in the lexan. But he installed his on top
of the cabin (right in the windshield lexan) right above the front carry
through tube. Being they pointed directly into the slipstream, they
worked well also. And if he didn't want them he just turned them
backwards, or pulled them in altogether, closing them off. Just another
idea. Would be an easy modification to any existing airplane.
Paul Seehafer
Model IV 912ul on Aerocet Amphibs
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance |
In the two kitfoxes I have flown the cushions and my belly seem to block
full up elevator travel, so I fly with no back cushion and had to make a cutout
in the seat cushion. You might check yours for this problem. On the Citabria I
have to lower my grip to keep my fingers out of the gut and I'm only 185 lb,
6 ft.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance |
what is your c.g. you may need weight in the tail and should have at least a
mid range c.g.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
I am running the Ivo in flight adjustable UL prop too. I guess I have
the
fine pitch blades as With the 582 I have no problem going all the way to
6800 rpm. Last year I had a bit of a problem with my tach. On the last
flight the rpm cranked up to 7800 rpm and the plane literally rocketed
off
the water. I was well over 250 agl before I knew what was happening. I
then tried to pull the throttle back slowly after all there are better
ways
of going than to hit a runway on floats tail first!.. When I got home I
realized that it was possible to churn 7800 but not get any power out of
it.
I immediately bought and installed a Tiny Tach. It turns out that at
7800
on the original 'Fox tach the Tiny Tach was only registering 6400.
Due to a raft of federal red tape I haven't gotten the hours of flying
this
summer that I'd planned on getting. I'm certainly looking forward to a
lot
more air time in the near future.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Seehafer
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
Hi Noel,
That is a pretty nice Model III you have there as well. Yeah, the
aerocets
are a great float. Unfortunately my Model IV has everything but the
kitchen
sink in it, so the aerocet amphibs are a little underfloated for my
needs.
If I don't try to modify mine for more floatation I will definitely keep
you
in mind should I decide to do a different float. My aerocets are
essentially brand new (In some regards they are better than new).
My prop is an IVO in-flight electric ultralight+ (higher pitch than the
standard). Works good, but I should probably convert to the lower pitch
blades as I can't get the rpms the engine needs to develop max
horsepower.
I'm convinced the other blades will increase my climb rate while
reducing my
takeoff time on the water. I have never been able to get to max power
rpm
of 5800. So even though I have an inflight prop, not developing max
horsepower is reducing my climb and my cruise. But for now I am just
going
to enjoy it as is. Overall it works quite well just the way it is.
I've really been enjoying this Model IV-1200 Kitfox with the 912ul. It
performs very well, especially considering it is only an 80 hp
amphibian.
It can get off the water in 8-10 seconds with just me and 1/2 tank of
fuel
(14 gallons). And with the same load I can climb out at around a
thousand
fpm average. Cruise speeds? Well that is the really fun part. For
years
all of the Rans S-7's in the area have been the fast floatplane to
catch.
Now they have to try and catch me <snicker> And I only have 80 hp vs
their
100 hp. I tested max power cruise the other day with me and 7/8 tank of
fuel (24 gallons) in dead air - 116 mph one way, and 117 the other. So
this
little bird cooks right along. I rarely run my engine that hard, but
still
typically see 100 mph+ for groundspeeds pretty much wherever I go even
at
less than 5000 rpm. And that little 80 hp 912 is a real fuel mizer.
Fourty
hours of keeping track of my fuel shows an average of 3.3 gallons an
hour.
Isn't that something? This little floatplane is incredibly efficient.
I
wonder how it might perform if I ever get the prop pitch figured out?
Although it's so good now I am almost afraid to touch anything.
Here are a few pictures in-flight showing my speeds. Note: I have been
too
busy flying to finish all the little things like instrument panel
markings.... (chuckle)
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel <mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> Loveys
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying without doors
Paul:
That's a very nice plane you have there. I was wondering about your
prop.
It looks like an Ivo. Is it in-flight adjustable?
I have the Aerocet straight floats on my 582 B box powered mod III-A.
They
are a hard act to follow on the water. I haven't tried the Full Lotus
floats yet but I can't see how they would handle better on the water
than
the Areocets. I would love to have the amphibs. If you ever decide to
sell
those floats keep me in mind.
Noel
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Flying without doors |
To assure that you have a good static port location watch your altimeter
during takeoff, rotation, and lift off. if it fluctuates or shows anything but
field elevation it is in error.
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I kept my CG forward so that I could carry a large
load in the baggage area with no problem. If I need
to move it aft some, I have a second battery just aft
of the firewall that I can relocate further aft to
make fine adjustments.
I calculate it will hold 135 lbs in the back, even
with full fuel and 2 people and still be OK. Running
empty, a 170 lb pilot can run all but the header tank
dry and still be in CG. I am over that weight, so
I've got all the fuel available too.
This does mean that I have a forward CG with no other
load on board though. But on my cross country flights
the average load puts it in a great place for an
enjoyable ride.
For landing, I normally use 1/2 flaps and push flaps
up on touchdown. It sits right down and stays there.
No flaps, I have to be careful or it will bounce, if I
don't stick the tail right. So far I do my best
landings when no one is looking and flub it
publically. :-(
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- AMuller589@aol.com wrote:
> what is your c.g. you may need weight in the tail
> and should have at least a mid range c.g.
__________________________________________________
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I made cutouts for the sticks too. Origionally had
the sticks stop just forward of the seat, but later
adjusted the elevator so they stopped more forward.
My problem is not my gut but my legs reducing lateral
stick when it is back. I like all the crosswind
control I can get when landing. The more forward the
stick, the less I hit my legs. Still I probably only
get 50% throw stick back, unless I shove the stick
hard against my legs.
Kurt S. S-5
--- AMuller589@aol.com wrote:
> In the two kitfoxes I have flown the cushions and my
> belly seem to block
> full up elevator travel, so I fly with no back
> cushion and had to make a cutout
> in the seat cushion. You might check yours for this
> problem. On the Citabria I
> have to lower my grip to keep my fingers out of the
> gut and I'm only 185 lb, 6 ft.
__________________________________________________
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I closed the gap from the stabilizer to the verticle
stab hatches with foam as much as I could when I built
mine just to increase the elevator authority. It has
no gap now when at full nose up stab. (stab front
down to the widest part of the verticle stab)
Later I plan to put in gap seals too. If that isn't
enough, I can add VG's under the stab or move that
little battery I have just aft of the firewall to
adjust the CG a little.
But for elevator authority you need to close the gaps,
make sure you have full elevator deflection, but no
more, and then stay within CG limits. That should do
it. Move some weight aft if you need to.
For some of my testing, I installed a 7 gal water tank
in the cargo bay aft end and that gave me near
centered CG. That didn't do as much as you might
expect to increase the elevator authority. Only near
aft CG limits made a big difference and I don't like
flying it like that for other reasons.
I compare my plane's feel to a C-180 with a stick and
twice the roll rate. In calm air, it feels like a
heavier plane, but it is still only takes a flick of
the stick to go where I want. :-)
Kurt S. S-5
--- Mark Thompson <kr2@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Kurt,I am also having a hard time with full
> elevator control for a stall
> landing,I am landing with no flaps and seem to flair
> high and then
> drop...no bounces yet lol...,I am flying with 2
> 200lb pilots and 26gal fuel
> so I know Im heavy, but can we get more elevator
> authority?
> Thanks for your input.........Kitfox4..N61AC
>
> Mark
__________________________________________________
Message 41
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
The struts are usually installed on the front, but
some have put them in back. This allows for easier
entry and exit, but in back is almost certain to
flutter, if opened in flight. I kept mine in front on
the factory mounts. S-5 model
Kurt S.
--- kitfox <kitfox@bulldog.itgo.com> wrote:
> My KF III does not have gas struts on the doors.
> I've
> thought of adding them and can see several different
> options. I am curious how others have installed
> struts on their doors.
> On the front or back of the frame ?
__________________________________________________
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